The Girlfriends: Spotlight, E12: Lois Captures Criminals

Summary

The Girlfriends: Jailhouse Lawyer – Season 3, Episode 12: “Spotlight – Lois Captures Criminals”

Podcast: The Girlfriends: Jailhouse Lawyer
Host: Anna Sinfield
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts and Novel
Air Date: November 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this “Girlfriends: Spotlight” episode, host Anna Sinfield profiles Lois Gibson—survivor, artist, and the world’s most successful forensic artist—whose remarkable skill in composite sketching has helped law enforcement solve over a thousand cases. The episode delves into Lois’s traumatic past, her unconventional path into crime-fighting, and how her empathy and artistic talent became tools for justice, not only for herself but for countless victims. With bursts of humor, warmth, and grit, Lois details how personal tragedy was redirected into a lifelong quest for justice—one face at a time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Lois Gibson’s Origin Story and Becoming a Forensic Artist

• Early Artistic Talent:

  • Lois recounts her lifelong passion for drawing, especially faces, from kindergarten to art school.
  • “My first drawing in kindergarten, the kindergarten teacher noticed and she freaked and drugged me away from the easel… They came out and framed it.”
    (Lois Gibson, 05:22)

• Finding Her Calling:

  • After a stint painting tourist portraits on the San Antonio Riverwalk, Lois realizes her true talent lies in capturing human likeness quickly and expressively (07:00-07:31).
  • “All I wanted to do was draw faces… and I always wanted to draw people.”
    (Lois Gibson, 05:22)

Trauma as Catalyst for Justice

• Surviving Violent Attack:

  • Lois reveals she was nearly killed in a brutal rape as a young woman in LA in the 1970s, which she never reported due to stigma and lack of faith in the justice system (10:29–11:50).
  • Her drawing skills are later informed by this trauma:
    • “I didn’t tell anybody I’d been attacked. I’d been nearly killed in a rape, but I barely survived.”
      (Lois Gibson, 10:29)
    • “I knew I couldn’t get justice. I was so mad. I wanted justice, but I was in Los Angeles. Are you kidding me?”
      (Lois Gibson, 12:17)

• A Chance Encounter with Her Attacker’s Arrest:

  • Detailing a “miracle,” Lois describes accidentally seeing her attacker being arrested years later, giving her a sense of justice she thought impossible (12:48–13:49).
  • “...I got justice in spite of myself.”
    (Lois Gibson, 13:49)

Breaking into Law Enforcement

• Demonstrating Her Skill:

  • Lois tests her skills by drawing a gas station attendant she’s never seen, based solely on a friend’s description, which triggers an emotional response and strengthens her resolve to help catch criminals (09:17–10:17).

• Persistence Pays Off:

  • After repeated rejections from police departments, Lois “goes for broke” and offers Houston PD a demonstration—sketching a stranger based only on witness descriptions. This unorthodox audition proves her value and gets her freelance work (19:24–21:40).
  • “I’ll bring my gear... I’ll do a sketch from just their description... if I can’t, you guys are armed, I’ll just leave.”
    (Lois Gibson, 19:50)

The Forensic Artist at Work

• First Homicide Case and Impact:

  • Lois’s first police case involves a traumatized witness to murder; her sketch leads directly to the arrest of a 17-year-old killer. She is initially doubtful, but the police confirm the sketch was key (22:04–24:56).
  • “My sketch stopped him.”
    (Lois Gibson, 24:34)

• Technique & Approach:

  • Lois walks Anna through her composite sketch process, using the Samantha Steinberg catalog of facial features to guide witnesses (25:05–26:40).
  • She emphasizes empathy, customization of interaction per witness, and always prioritizing what the witness sees:
    • “The witness is king. They saw him, you didn’t… The way to know you’re done is the witness will say, 'ah, it’s not perfect, but I can’t think of what else to change.'”
      (Lois Gibson, 25:27)

• Empathy Is Crucial:

  • Lois attributes her success to deep empathy, rooted in her personal trauma:
    • “The quality I have that makes me so good is I’m empathetic. You gotta feel what the other person feels.”
      (Lois Gibson, 28:33)

Memorable and High-Stakes Cases

• Police Shooting – Paul Deason Case:

  • Despite being in the hospital herself, Lois rushes to produce a sketch for an officer shot and run over by an escaped convict. Paul cannot remember seeing his attacker’s face, but Lois’s method produces a sketch leading to the man’s arrest (33:35–36:46).
  • “If they answer ‘what kind of expression did he have?’ you’re going to get a sketch.”
    (Lois Gibson, 34:40)

• Baby Kidnapping Case:

  • Lois describes drawing a sketch of a woman who kidnapped a 10-hour-old baby from a hospital—her drawing directly helps recover the child within hours (37:09–39:31).
  • “If this is the only thing I did in my life, I’m done. I’m fine. I’ll just go make sourdough bread.”
    (Lois Gibson, 39:25)

The Personal Cost and Fulfillment

• Resilience Through Tragedy:

  • Lois discusses how surviving her attack gave her unusual strength to cope with exposure to violent crimes and trauma in her work (39:38–40:40).
  • “What doesn’t break us makes us stronger. And if you go down as far as I have, then you come back real strong.”
    (Lois Gibson, 39:41)

• Record-Breaking Career:

  • She’s officially “the world’s most successful forensic artist”—solving over 1,300 cases in more than 5,000 assignments, but notes it took 7 years to get a full-time job due to institutional resistance (40:40–41:06).

Justice, Healing, and Legacy

• Justice for Her Younger Self:

  • Anna asks whether young Lois received justice through this work.
    • “Yeah, I got justice for what I went through. That stupid guy got me going after every kind of guy like him. It was therapy, talking to the witnesses and talking to the girls that had been attacked.”
      (Lois Gibson, 41:16)

• Passion for Training Others:

  • Now nearing retirement, Lois is focused on training a new generation and advocating for forensic art’s recognition worldwide, inviting listeners to her Facebook group to learn and submit their art (42:17–end).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If this is the only case I ever did, this would make my life absolutely worthwhile.”
  (Lois Gibson, 37:09, on the baby kidnapping)

• “I just got justice in spite of myself.”
  (Lois Gibson, 13:49, after seeing her attacker arrested)

• “You gotta be brave to do faces, because inside that face is a human being.”
  (Lois Gibson, 07:37)

• “Empathy—a powerful tool, probably the most important one to have in law enforcement.”
  (Anna Sinfield, 28:58)

• “I want to help other artists start their careers. I mean, it’s too wonderful. I’ve got to spread it before I go to the big drawing board in the sky.”
  (Lois Gibson, 41:47)

• Lois’s playful banter: “Well, this’ll be the best interview you ever had, Anna.” (05:06)

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Important Timestamps

• [05:22] – Lois discusses her lifelong love of drawing faces.
• [10:29] – Lois reveals her history of surviving trauma.
• [13:49] – Justice, after witnessing her attacker’s arrest.
• [19:50] – Her wild pitch to Houston PD and big break.
• [24:34] – Her first homicide sketch stops a serial killer.
• [25:27] – Lois describes her composite sketch process.
• [28:33] – On the importance of empathy in her work.
• [33:35] – Recounts the Paul Deason police shooting case.
• [37:09] – Baby kidnapping case: sketch brings child home.
• [40:47] – Guinness World Record: 5,089 cases, 1,313 solved.
• [41:16] – On justice for her younger self.
• [42:17] – Urging listeners to try forensic art.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode is a gripping, emotional, and ultimately empowering story of resilience and justice. Lois Gibson’s journey demonstrates what happens when pain is transmuted into an unyielding force for good. Through humor, candor, and creative tenacity, she’s not only changed the way crimes are solved but turned her personal tragedy into healing for herself and countless others. Anna Sinfield’s conversational, supportive interviewing allows Lois’s sparkling personality and profound empathy to shine. Listeners walk away understanding the pivotal role of forensic art in the justice system—and inspired to believe that, with enough courage and skill, anyone can make a difference.

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For more information or to see if you have the skills of a forensic artist, check out Lois Gibson’s Institute of Forensic Art on Facebook.

Transcript

[Lois Gibson]

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[Anna Sinfield]

Hey girlfriends, I just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode includes conversations about rape, murder and graphic violence. But if you do listen, you'll hear some crime fighting with an easel. And don't come for me if we swear this is a safe space for that kind of thing. Lois is at home after work one evening getting ready to put the kids to bed when her phone rings, the.

[Lois Gibson]

Detective on the homicide called me and he said, you did it, girl. You gotta come down here. So I took the kids to the sitter and went down.

[Anna Sinfield]

When she gets to Houston police station, the detective has news for her.

[Lois Gibson]

So he tells me. We wouldn't have solved the case without that drawing.

[Anna Sinfield]

Lois has just done her first piece of forensic art.

[Lois Gibson]

I'm talking about a witness remembering a face they saw. The face that represents the person that did the horrible thing they saw.

[Anna Sinfield]

She's just sketched the perpetrator of a dreadful murder based on the fragmented memories of a hysterical bystander. It's her first assignment for the Houston Police Department. And it caught the killer. Overwhelmed, she has to decompress in her car.

[Lois Gibson]

It was too such a burden. I knew I would do whatever it took to help somebody get justice.

[Anna Sinfield]

You see, Lois has a special connection to this case.

[Lois Gibson]

This guy was murdered the same way I was nearly murdered.

[Anna Sinfield]

Lois uses the trauma of her near death experience to find a new purpose. She's on her way to become the world's most successful forensic artist. She'll help thousands of people to find justice one face at a time. And in doing that, Lois will also find justice for herself. I'm Anna Sinfield, and from the teams At Novel and iHeart podcasts, this is the Girlfriend Spotlight, where we tell stories of women winning today. Lois captures criminals.

[Lois Gibson]

I got you.

[Anna Sinfield]

I got you.

[Lois Gibson]

Hi, Anna. How are you doing, girl?

[Anna Sinfield]

Hi, Lois.

[Lois Gibson]

What I do is guess your sign.

[Anna Sinfield]

Sign as in star sign? Capricorn, Cancer. You know the drill.

[Lois Gibson]

But I'm gonna wait till we talk a while.

[Anna Sinfield]

Yeah, okay. You get a flavor of who I am.

[Lois Gibson]

Oh, I have to push you around, see if you get mean. I don't know. Kidding, kidding. Just kidding. I'm not mean.

[Anna Sinfield]

Hey, I'm game for you trying.

[Lois Gibson]

Well, this'll be the best interview you ever had, Anna.

[Anna Sinfield]

Already the best interview ever. The thing about Lois Gibson is that you never quite know whether she's being serious. But I do know that she's always been into drawing.

[Lois Gibson]

My first drawing in kindergarten, the kindergarten teacher noticed and she freaked and drugged me away from the easel. And they called the lady at the museum in Kansas City, Missouri, and they came out and framed it and put in the. So I drew since I was young, and I drew in high school and everything, and I always wanted to draw people. So I waited tables for nine years to get through college, and all I wanted to do was draw faces.

[Anna Sinfield]

Why did you want to draw faces in the first place? What drew you to people's faces in your art?

[Lois Gibson]

The reason I wanted to draw faces in the beginning is the same reason other artists who are like me, I was just drawn. Like when I was only five. I wanted to do a. A face. That's all I wanted to do. And like poor Michelangelo. Same birthday as him, only 510 years later. I love people, and I love to.

[Anna Sinfield]

Draw much the same. You and Michelangelo. And like Michelangelo, who I imagine would go on many long, tortured walks around Florence, Lois would visit the riverwalk in her college town of San Antonio, Texas, to contemplate what to do with her.

[Lois Gibson]

Life as beautiful waterway with cafes on the edge with colored umbrellas on each side reflected in the water, and a Japanese half moon bridge. I'm like, okay, cha ching, cha Ching. I want to make money down here. I should do portraits.

[Anna Sinfield]

She was studying dentistry, but she was a little distracted.

[Lois Gibson]

Dental school students have the best parties. Unbelievable.

[Anna Sinfield]

So on the side, she decided to paint portraits for tourists keen to remember their time in beautiful San Antonio.

[Lois Gibson]

I sat there, and it was hot, and the tourists were wiggly and moving and sometimes drunk. And I had to draw fast. The faster I went, the more money I made. And during the portrait, I would just be engulfed in their personality, completely immersed. And I did a stint at Six Flags Over Texas doing watercolor portraits live. So if you're an artist out there, you go, that's impossible. Yeah, it's really hard. But I did live portraits of tourists in watercolor.

[Anna Sinfield]

Lois got an art degree from the University of Texas. She was good.

[Lois Gibson]

All these people that do landscapes, I love them. I love, love, love. However, you gotta be brave to do faces, because inside that face is a human being. And nobody likes their own photographs. So they're gonna look at your drawing and go, oh. And it could be terrific. So you're gonna get emotional rejection. I did about 3,000 portraits, and one.

[Anna Sinfield]

Of those was a portrait that will change her life.

[Lois Gibson]

I drew a portrait of a guy and fell in love with him and moved to Houston.

[Anna Sinfield]

Oh, wow. Houston, Texas, the fourth most populous city in the United States, was a long way from the quaint college town Lois came from. It's a place where the hot air from the Gulf coast and the cool air from the Rocky Mountains collide to form many a thunderstorm, which is the case today when Lois and I are talking. Oh, my God, the weather.

[Lois Gibson]

Y. Yes, MA'. AM. Totally, 100% Mother Nature.

[Anna Sinfield]

No. A little scary.

[Lois Gibson]

Hey.

[Anna Sinfield]

It wasn't just the storms Lois had to get used to when she first Moved to Houston in 1981.

[Lois Gibson]

The place was a bloodbath. They had 701 murders that year that I moved.

[Anna Sinfield]

One day, Lois and her friend Diane are hanging out. The TV's on in the background.

[Lois Gibson]

They talk about a dance instructor who was raped in front of her little 11 and 12 year old little students. And in a split second, I said, oh, my God, Diane, I could draw a picture of that guy.

[Anna Sinfield]

After developing her portrait skills on the riverbank in San Antonio, Lois has started to believe that she could draw just about anyone, even if she's never seen them before. She recruits Diane to help her put it to the test.

[Lois Gibson]

You go to the gas station and there's gonna be a male homo sapien, a man working there, right? Look at the man, Diane. I'll take care of you to your. So she goes to the gas station, looks at the guy. She comes back and I tried to draw the guy.

[Anna Sinfield]

Lois gets Diane to describe this gas station employee who she's only seen for a few seconds, remembering as many details as she can about his face, his hair, his skin.

[Lois Gibson]

And I got down to below the nose. I got all that. She goes, pretty good. And she goes, oh, you're not gonna be able to draw this. He shows both upper and lower teeth like Satchmo, Louis Armstrong, upper and lower teeth all the time, even when he's not smiling. And I went, oh. I said, yeah, that would be hard, except for I went to dental school. So I drew the teeth real good. We drove to the gas station and the guy came out and it looked exactly like him. And so I hung onto the gas pump and I started weeping uncontrollably.

[Anna Sinfield]

The portrait is a success, but Lois reaction is unexpected. Her friend Diane is confused, but Lois knows where her tears are coming from.

[Lois Gibson]

I didn't tell anybody I'd been attacked. I'd been nearly killed in a rape, but I barely survived.

[Anna Sinfield]

And the discovery that she could draw a person's face from a verbal description by an unreliable eyewitness sparked something in her.

[Lois Gibson]

All of a sudden, I thought I could catch somebody like that. And the thought of being able to do that drove me out of my mind with desire to do that.

[Anna Sinfield]

Eleven years before the gas station drawing, Lois Gibson was out driving. It was the early 70s, and Lois was in her early 20s.

[Lois Gibson]

I was driving home, trying to get out of traffic, and literally something took my steering wheel. I went up a hill. I didn't mean to go up this hill. It was Hills of Hollywood. You have to go back and forth. No way to Turn around, you're forced up the hill, up the hill. And then when I got to the top of the hill, there was a piece of gravel that I could turn around on. I turned onto the gravel, I looked up, and there was his face. The man that tried to kill me.

[Anna Sinfield]

Six weeks earlier, Lois had been at home when a stranger broke into her apartment.

[Lois Gibson]

And I was nearly strangled to death. So it was a really brutal attack. I didn't admit to myself that it happened till six years afterwards.

[Anna Sinfield]

So you never reported it at the time?

[Lois Gibson]

I never reported the attack. And since I was a dancer and a model, I thought they would think I was sexy, whatever that means, and blame me. I couldn't report it.

[Anna Sinfield]

And so considering you didn't kind of admit to yourself that it even really happened, you couldn't face reporting it to the police. Were you seeking some kind of justice? Were you hoping that there would be justice?

[Lois Gibson]

I knew I couldn't get justice. I was so mad. I wanted justice, but I was in Los Angeles. Are you kidding me?

[Anna Sinfield]

I'm sure you've heard the stories of 70s LA being rife with dancers and models like Lois being abused and assaulted. It became so normalized that she lost all faith in any formal justice system. So she thought that was that. But as Lois tells it, the next thing she knows, she's driving up into the Hollywood Hills without meaning to and sees her attacker.

[Lois Gibson]

When I saw him, that was the miracle that I had prayed for. And I froze. And there were guys in front and behind him. And then I realized they were lapd. And then he was sideways and I realized he was in handcuffs.

[Anna Sinfield]

She told me he was being arrested for a drug related crime.

[Lois Gibson]

And then they're at the top of the stairs and they gotta go down tall wooden, two story stairs. And he starts fighting them like an animal. At one point they hold his elbows up and he's running, his legs like a bicycle in midair. So they had to beat him to keep him from knocking them and himself down the stairs and breaking somebody's arms and legs. So I got to see him get beaten and beaten and beaten. It was so beautiful. And I drove down to the bottom of the hill and it was like a Volkswagen got pulled off my back. I got justice. I got justice in spite of myself.

[Anna Sinfield]

So that's the Lois that winds up hanging over a pump at a Houston gas station, laughing and crying at the same time, clearly not getting any gas, but elated that she's been able to draw the guy who works there without ever having seen him.

[Lois Gibson]

So I scared the gas guy and he sees the picture of me and he goes, wow, you're really good. You're such a good artist. I made him look cuter than he was. I always do that.

[Anna Sinfield]

Now Lois knows she has a talent that can help get justice for fellow survivors.

[Lois Gibson]

When I realized I could draw faces from someone's memory, I realized this was an insanely important tool that the law enforcement could use.

[Anna Sinfield]

After the break. Using that tool.

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[Audiobook Promo Voice]

In the shadows and flames, primals will fall and from the blood and ash new gods will rise. Poppy was never meant to awaken and consequences are devastating. Stirring ancient powers from their slumber, transforming Castile and Kirin in ways the fates couldn't foresee. The great conspirator has returned to stop the primal of death. The gods have awakened harboring blood soaked secrets. And every choice can undo everything. The primal of blood in both. Perfect for fans of Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros. Available in print, ebook and audiobook.

[Ed Helms]

Hey, everyone. Ed Helms here.

[Kal Penn]

And hi, I'm Kal Penn, and we're the hosts of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Jenny Garth]

You know what?

[Anna Sinfield]

I can see you as Mr. Darcy.

[Jenny Garth]

You got a little Colin Firth.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that, but are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett. Here, listen to earsay the Audible and I Heart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anna Sinfield]

Forensic art helps law enforcement identify suspects and solve crimes using artistic skill. One of the most common types is called a composite sketch, which is created by interviewing witnesses and drawing a face based on their memories of the person they saw committing a crime. You've probably seen them on the news or on crime dramas. They sometimes look a bit weird, but they're also often eerily similar to the person who's eventually found to have done it.

[Lois Gibson]

I realized that me doing portraits on the Riverwalk in San Antonio was the perfect setup to be able to do that. And now it was somebody I couldn't see. Yeah, okay, flash forward. I knew I could solve murders.

[Anna Sinfield]

Lois just needs to persuade the cops that they need her.

[Lois Gibson]

Sure enough, I called 20 phone calls over a period of weeks. Everybody just got rid of me. Everybody had excuses.

[Anna Sinfield]

Houston Police Department aren't used to artists blowing up their phones. They have procedures for recruiting new staff. But Lois won't let something as boring as bureaucracy get in the way of her plans.

[Lois Gibson]

So here's how I finally got through. I went insane with. What do you call it? Courage, gonads, whatever. Too much bravery. But I was going for broke. So I call him up and I go, look, here's my proposition. I'll bring my gear. I'll go to your office in front of you, I'll have you take some of your personnel, someone to look at, someone in the jail who they'd never seen and who I can't see. Bring Them back down. I'll do a sketch from just their description if I can. Wouldn't that be a great trick? If I can't, you guys are armed. I'll just leave. So I said that speech, and they couldn't answer anything because I had them by the gonads. So somebody talked to somebody, and the last two I talked to said, you need to talk to Lieutenant Don MacWilliams. So when I got him, I started the speech, and before I got a few words in, and he goes, come on down, girl. I'm like, so he's the one. He goes, yeah, that would be a great trick. And they put me in a patrol car like I was under arrest, but with my easel and everything. And I set up, and they said, well, should we have a detective go to the jail? And I was too brave. I go, no, get me a dingy person.

[Anna Sinfield]

She wants someone who's a few sandwiches short of a picnic, you know, like, not a lot going on upstairs.

[Lois Gibson]

And I'll be darned. They got the dingiest dang secretary. And she comes back, and she freaked. She almost cried. So I had to go, oh, relax now. Just relax, relax. Anyway, the first thing I do is the hair. And she pointed at the top of her head and said, dark, Dark. I mean, I found out right away he was wearing a black hat. But then I got the eyes, I got the nose, and then he has weird teeth, and it completely blew them away.

[Anna Sinfield]

Wow. I mean, what did they say? Were they like, you're hired. We need you? No.

[Lois Gibson]

They were too big of a bureaucracy, and I didn't expect them to, but they used me.

[Anna Sinfield]

They start hiring her on a freelance basis, and Lois green and keen to impress, says yes, yes, yes, Even though she's just had her first child. Eleven months ago, when I had to.

[Lois Gibson]

Start working forensic art with a baby at home, it was really intense. I loved being home with a baby. It was so good. I loved it. And then I get a call from the detective, and I get to do something. And I always had the gear to do the sketches in the trunk of my car. I would bring all my gear, easel, drawing boards, pastels, a paper purse, blah, blah, blah, Drag it in, set up in a room, do the case. The worst thing that happened in the world in houston that week, and then break it down and go back to the trunk of my car. The first homicide I worked, I solved it. I had a hysterical witness. He saw a man stabbed to death in our memorial park, and he thought somebody was digging in the Dirt. And he walks up and looks beyond this log and somebody's stabbing somebody in the back. Well, he was hysterical. It was the most hysterical witness that I've ever had. And it took forever. And he cried uncontrollably a whole bunch of times. And I comforted him. Anyway, I finished the sketch and it looked horrible. You know, it's not a fine work of art. None of them are right. I gave it to him and I drove away from the police station and I parked at this street in a parking lot and I said, I'm never doing that again. It would be so good if it could work, but there's no way it's working. I'm going to go home. I'm going to be a mom to my 11 month old baby. I went home the next morning. Douglas Osterberg, the detective on the homicide, everybody called him Big Bird. So Big Bird called me and he said hello. And I went, what?

[Anna Sinfield]

The police had circulated Lois's sketch on the evening news.

[Lois Gibson]

And he said that the murderer's roommates called him in. They saw the news that night and they waited for the rebroadcast at 2:30 in the morning. And they watched that.

[Anna Sinfield]

You'd be pretty freaked out too, right? You're watching the news and a drawing comes up of a man wanted for a brutal murder. And the guy looks just like your roomie.

[Lois Gibson]

He goes, oh my God. He called the detectives.

[Anna Sinfield]

The roommate tells the cops that he knows the murderer, it's the guy he lives with.

[Lois Gibson]

And they go, can we search your house? He goes, yeah, permission to search. They found the weapon in the underwear with the blood wiped off on it.

[Anna Sinfield]

Oh my gosh. You must have felt amazing in that moment.

[Lois Gibson]

It was too such a burden when I found out I was gonna do that. I did better drawings when I was 8 years old. This sketch sucks. And it stopped a murderer. He was 17. If he was 17 and he was killing for fun, he was going to kill again and again. My sketch stopped him.

[Anna Sinfield]

Gosh, that's hard. I'd really like to know how you do the sketches. Would you be able to walk me through your process?

[Lois Gibson]

Okay. For witness memory, I get the Samantha Steinberg catalog and I give it to the witness and they tell me which features to draw.

[Anna Sinfield]

The Samantha Steinberg catalogue is like a giant visual menu that helps forensic artists draw faces. It has over 1000 different eyes, noses and hairstyles to help witnesses pick out exactly what they remember.

[Lois Gibson]

And I draw it where they're not looking. You always use an easel? It's a 5,000 year old piece of equipment. You have to have a light source. It's on your easel. You're drawing facing the drawing board. The witness is sitting facing the back of the drawing board. So they're private. It's like a barrier between you and them. They've been through the worst thing in their life. So the way I draw is I start at the top and go down like a printer. And then when I get it composed, like just the good composition of proportion for features that they give you all on a face, then you tell them, I'm going to turn around and show you and I will change anything you want, any way you want me to change it. And then do that. You turn it around and whatever they say witness is king. They saw him, you didn't. You do exactly what they say and the way to know you're done is the witness will say, ah, it's not perfect, but I can't think of what else to change. That means you are done. Take a picture first. And if you're old like me, there weren't cell phones till I did halfway through my career. But take a Polaroid and then give it to the detective.

[Anna Sinfield]

And do you interact much with the witness of the crime?

[Lois Gibson]

It depends on who you are. You know, if you're a man and you're son has just been shot to death in a road rage as you drive out of the Astros ball game and you're standing there and your arms are crossed and you look like you want to punch me because you do want to punch somebody and you're mad and you just donated the 17 year old's organs. Then I'm really, really, really nice. You want to hear what I said to that guy?

[Anna Sinfield]

Yeah.

[Lois Gibson]

He wanted to be strong and his arms were crossed. So I looked at him and I went. Compared to all the people that I worked with, you're like almost the strongest and the most composed. And you're emotionally, you know, stable considering what you've been through. And his whole body relaxed because that's what he wanted to be. And then I got him to laugh anyway. I'm real funny. I can get people to laugh in situations. But you gotta tell me the crime. No, it's all customized to the crime. How I would talk to you.

[Anna Sinfield]

The witness that relaxes the most is the witness that remembers the most.

[Lois Gibson]

Every witness tells you in the beginning they can't do this sketch. They scream it, they yell it, they say it in different languages, but don't listen. Here's what you need to know. I'm absolutely positive 100% of the time. When you do a sketch for from a witness who is not lying, your drawing will look like the person described. 100% you don't believe it. I know you don't believe it. And law enforcement, hey, they don't believe it. But I'm right. And if you doubt me, you're wrong.

[Anna Sinfield]

What qualities do you have that make you so good at it?

[Lois Gibson]

The quality I have that makes me so good is I'm empathetic. You got to feel what the other person feels. And that can be so horrific if you think about what you're going to go through because it's the worst thing on the news. But I do it because I'm strong, because I've been attacked. And then that informs you what you should say to that person.

[Anna Sinfield]

Empathy. A powerful tool, probably the most important one to have in law enforcement. I wanted to ask you, how would you draw me?

[Lois Gibson]

Oh, you'd be easy. I do it real quick.

[Anna Sinfield]

Oh, okay.

[Lois Gibson]

Yeah. Your hair is raw. Sienna. You know nobody. And yellow ochre. And there's a little raw umber.

[Anna Sinfield]

Yeah, in the UK I just get called ginger. With her easel and color palette in hand, Lois wants to take her career to the next level. After the break. Justice.

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[Audiobook Promo Voice]

In the shadows and flames, primals will fall and from the blood and ash new gods will rise. Poppy was never meant to awaken and consequences are devast devastating, stirring ancient powers from their slumber, transforming Casteel and Kiran in ways the fates couldn't foresee. The great Conspirator has returned to stop the Primal of death. The gods have awakened harboring blood soaked secrets and every choice can undo everything. The Primal of Blood in both Perfect for fans of Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros. Available in print, ebook and audiobook.

[Ed Helms]

Hey everyone, Ed Helms here and hi.

[Kal Penn]

I'm Cal Penn and we're the hosts of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Jenny Garth]

You know what?

[Anna Sinfield]

I can see you as an Mr. Darcy.

[Jenny Garth]

You got a little Colin Firth.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, that's really sweet, I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett here, listen to earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[Anna Sinfield]

Lois becomes the go to freelance forensic artist for the Houston Police Department. I mean, she's on a roll, fighting crime left and right.

[Lois Gibson]

One of the most wonderful cases I was able to do was we had an officer named Paul Deason and he stopped somebody, not realizing it was an escaped convict, and the man got out and shot him in the head. Shot him in the back and then on purpose. The shooter got in his car and ran over and drugged Paul under the car for about 65ft. So Paul walked back and called in his own assist and he survived. So I heard about it on a Friday night. Now I'm a sleepwalker and I can't explain but I ended up, sitting down on a fork. The fork went clear to the bone. It punctured the back of my leg, right under my booty. And my husband threw hydrogen peroxide on it.

[Anna Sinfield]

Lois ends up in hospital where she's pumped full of antibiotics and promises the doctor that she'll rest fully for two days. But of course, she's barely out of the hospital when she gets a call. Paul is conscious and ready to do a sketch.

[Lois Gibson]

I sat in my car. I had to. For the guys. I had to. I ignored my leg. It was kind of hurting. And I sat sideways, drove to the hospital. It was really an ordeal. You have to walk about a quarter mile with the easel. And I got to him, and he was wrapped in gauze. Completely covered in gauze, like the mummy, but just slits for the ears, the eyes, the nose. And then I just whispered in his ear, and he said, I never saw his face. I only saw the flash of the gun. Anyway, I make him laugh. I make everybody laugh. I was whispering. He's laughing anyway. And then he says, I only saw the flash of the gun. And so I have a trick. You say, what kind of expression did he have? You know, you talk about something else. You don't argue. Yes, you did see the face. You go, oh, what kind of expression did he have, Paul? And if they answer that, you're going to get a sketch. So I held my breath, and Paul says, he didn't have any expression. He looked like a shark, like he didn't care about anything at all. So in my mind, I'm screaming, yes, yes, yes, I'm gonna do it. And then I got the sketch done, but it was so hard. He was coming in and out of consciousness. I wasn't sure I had anything. I gave it to the detective, wanting to say, I don't think it's any good. Because he wouldn't even tell me at the end if it was any good. So I went home and they put the sketch out. Two guys were at the jail, and they thought the sketch looked like a guy they had just arrested for shoplifting a chainsaw from a store. They held a video lineup in Paul Deason's room, and he picked them out. And then they went to the place where the shoplifting happened. And they found a car with pieces of Paul's skin and uniform hanging from the undercarriage. So they know that that's the man who did it. And it looks like this sketch.

[Anna Sinfield]

Lois spots Paul in court, looking different now, without the gauze on his face. She goes up to him and he looked real mean.

[Lois Gibson]

He crossed his arms. He said, can I help you, ma'? Am? I said, oh, Paul, I'm the artist that did the sketch. And then he told me, I don't remember doing the sketch with you, Lois. I do not remember doing that with you. Wow. I only remember the end.

[Anna Sinfield]

Wow. And there are many memorable cases, each one worthy of a podcast in itself.

[Lois Gibson]

If this is the only case I ever did, this would make my life absolutely worthwhile. They called me late in the day and said, a baby's been kidnapped from a hospital. Everybody drops everything and you're looking at the mom and she's going, where's my baby? I can't even explain. The personnel at the scene of the hospital were so upset. I've never seen dozens of officers upset. So I get to the hospital and the security guard, you could feel the feeling in the building. A 10 hour old baby had been kidnapped. This woman comes in, she's acting like she's a nurse and she's convincing. And she tells the woman she's with this nursing program helping moms with newborn babies. Fine. She's there for several hours. Then the mom goes to the bathroom to take a tinkle. And the kidnapper takes the baby, puts it in a really large purse she had brought with her, and she just walks down the stairwell and exited with the baby. So I got up and the mom, I won't even describe, she turned her bible into paper mache. And then the detective, the female officer that was left to keep her company, said, do you need me? I go, no, I like doing it alone. She tried to not, not act like she was running out of the room. She could hardly wait to get out because the feeling when there's a kidnapping, it grabs you at the base of your throat and it makes you. It's hard to breathe. It's so hard to explain. So I did my best, and it looks like she posed for the kidnapper. Oh, my God. And they put it out. I didn't know at the time. I was sure it would be kind of close. I knew I had the hair right, but I was exhausted and so I went home and I sat down. I went, oh, I can't go to bed and go to sleep if there's a baby still out there. So I turned on the news and within 15 minutes, they showed the nurse that was at the hospital crying, holding the baby, kissing. They said they got the baby back. They got the baby back. And I watched and even hear him after that. I just watched the people at the Hospital, kissing the baby. If that is the only thing I did in my life, I'm done. I'm fine. I'll just go make sourdough bread.

[Anna Sinfield]

I mean, it's an awful lot for you to be taking on these stories. You know, you're right there in that crisis point.

[Lois Gibson]

Well, I have gotten a lot of strength by literally being almost killed. That'll give you the little bumper sticker quote, like, what doesn't break us makes it stronger. And if you go down as far as I have, then you come back real strong. And all the detectives, they talk like you, Anna, they go, how do you keep a sound mind? You're out of your mind. How can you do all this? Because they do murders and they work child sex crimes and they work rapes, but they, nobody does it all, but I do it all. And God literally, through the Holy Ghost gives me a sound mind. I'm positive it's from Heavenly Father, because I'll be feeling just normal and goofy. And I get a call at 3:30 in the morning to talk to a girl that's seen her mom killed and then she's been raped. So come on down. And I get this feeling in my chest of power and love and I feel healthy in my mind and then I feel really healthy if I get to solve the crime.

[Anna Sinfield]

According to the Oracle Guinness World Records, Lois has become the world's most successful forensic artist.

[Lois Gibson]

I worked 5,089 cases over 40 years.

[Anna Sinfield]

Wow.

[Lois Gibson]

And I've helped solve over 1,313 cases as some of the worst felons to walk the face of the earth. Every third sketch I would do to solve a case, it took seven and a quarter years to give me a full time job.

[Anna Sinfield]

After all these years, do you feel that young Lois has received some justice for what she went through after all these years?

[Lois Gibson]

Yeah, I got justice for what I went through. That stupid guy got me going after every kind of guy like him. It was therapy, talking to the witnesses and talking to the girls that had been attacked. It was so good because I knew how to make them feel better. And then if the sketch caught the guy, then that really made him feel better. And so, oh, I just, I got the most fulfilling life. I want to help other artists start their careers. I mean, it's too wonderful. I've got to spread it before I go to the big drawing board in the sky.

[Anna Sinfield]

And now it's time for the most important assessment of this podcast.

[Lois Gibson]

So are you a Scorpio?

[Anna Sinfield]

No, I'm not. What I'm Gemini, apparently.

[Lois Gibson]

Oh yay. That's the opposite. Okay, Geminis are supposed to be real funny. You should do radio interviews. See? No. But no.

[Anna Sinfield]

Here we are. Even though Lois couldn't get my star sign right, I get the effect she has has on people she's disarming, constantly observing. Two great skills for a forensic artist and a podcaster. To be fair, some of her stories are wild, but I get the feeling that's all part of the charm. She needs to lull people into the sort of headspace where they can describe a man they only saw for a split second right before he shot them in the head and the number speed for themselves. Forensic art clearly has a place in law enforcement, but during our conversation she told me it's a dying trade, barely used outside of the States and hardly used there either. Now she's headed towards retirement. Lois wants to turn her focus onto helping train up a new generation of artists and campaign for their work to be recognized by police departments worldwide. So if you want to see if you've got the skills to do this job, you can head over to her Facebook page, Lois Gibson's Institute of Forensic Art. She's got a bunch of exercises for you and she'll review your work and let you know if you've got that secret crime stopping source. Good luck and yes, best interview ever. If you've enjoyed this conversation, you can find loads more incredible women on our feed. Do check them out and please do spread the word and tell your friends about us. We want as many people as possible to be part of the Girlfriends gang. Next time on the Girlfriends Spotlight, Leila becomes visible.

[Lois Gibson]

My mum hugged my biological mum. My dad hugged my biological mum and I went up to her and I gave her a hug and then we started crying.

[Anna Sinfield]

This season we're supporting the charity Womankind Worldwide. They do amazing work to help women's rights organizations and movements to strengthen and grow. If you'd like to find out more or donate to help them secure equal rights for women and girls across the globe, you can go to womankind.org.uk the Girlfriend Spotlight is produced by Novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from Novel, visit Novel Audio. The show is hosted by me, Anna Sinfield. This episode was written and produced by Amalia Sortland. Additional production by Al Shabani. Our assistant producer is Lucy Carr. Our researcher is Zayana Youssef. The editor is Hannah Marshall. Max o' Brien and Craig Strachan are our executive producers. Production management from Joe Savage, Cherie Houston and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Jake Otyvich, Nicholas Alexander and Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Louisa Gerstein and Gemma Freeman. The series artwork was designed by Christina Lemkuhl. Willard Foxton is Creative Director of Development. Special thanks to Katrina Norville, Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson at iHeart podcast as well as Carly Frankel and the whole team at wme.

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[Kal Penn]

This episode is brought to you by PBS, home of Ken Burns. His newest film, the American Revolution, reveals untold stories of people, some familiar, many forgotten, who risked everything to change the course of history. It's the story of a war that was bloody, complex and profoundly consequential. Ken Burns and his co directors Sarah Botstein and David Schmidt shine a light on how this historic fight for independence lit the spark for freedom that still burns today. Stream the American Revolution on the PBS app. Don't miss it.

[Audiobook Promo Voice]

In the shadows and flames primals will fall and from the blood and ash new gods will rise. Poppy was never meant to awaken and consequences are devastating, stirring ancient powers from their slumber, transforming Casteel and Kirin in ways the fates couldn't foresee. The great conspirator has returned to stop the Primal of death. The gods have awakened harboring blood soaked secrets and every choice can undo everything. The Primal are blood in both perfect for Fox of Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros Available in print, ebook and audiobook.

[Kal Penn]

Hey audiobook lovers, I'm Kalpin.

[Ed Helms]

I'm Ed Helms.

[Kal Penn]

Ed and I are inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

Each week we sit down with your favorite iHeart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest and greatest audiobooks from audible.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to Earsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Earsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app today.

[Lois Gibson]

This is an iHeart podcast.