The Girlfriends: Spotlight, E20: Rosamund Clears the Air

Summary

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The Girlfriends: Spotlight

Episode 20: Rosamund Clears the Air
Date: March 30, 2026
Host: Anna Sinfield
Guests: Rosamund Adoo-Kissi-Debrah, Rachel Sinfield (Anna's mother)

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Episode Overview

In this moving and impactful episode, host Anna Sinfield brings together her mother, Rachel Sinfield, and clean air campaigner Rosamund Adoo-Kissi-Debrah to discuss grief, child loss, and the hidden dangers of air pollution. The episode explores the stories behind two children—Ella Roberta Kissi-Debrah and Kit Sinfield—both lost to severe asthma attacks, and the tireless fight for answers and justice that followed. More than a true crime spotlight, this discussion highlights the power of maternal determination, the intersections of health and environmental justice, and the global implications of air pollution as an invisible threat.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Personal Context: Two Families, Two Tragedies

[03:23–07:13] Anna introduces the topic

• Anna begins with a trigger warning, acknowledging the sensitive nature of the episode, which involves stories of children lost to asthma.
• Describes her childhood precautions due to asthma, rooted in her parents' grief after the loss of her brother Kit.
• Shares early memories of her mother’s pain and the persistent absence of medical answers about Kit's sudden death.

Quote:
"One of my earliest memories is finding my mom crying on the stairs and trying badly as a young child to comfort her. I've always been a bit of a watcher, often on the outside of people's pain, trying to reach in and soothe them. I'm sure that's why I do this job." — Anna Sinfield ([03:23])

2. Introducing Rosamund and Ella’s Story

[07:13–09:08] Meeting Rosamund

• Rosamund Adoo-Kissi-Debrah introduces her daughter Ella, born healthy but diagnosed with asthma as a young child.
• Anna and Rosamund compare stories of "tomboy" daughters and their shared rebellious streaks.

Quote:
"Ella's thing was never cut your hair. But then I think in our community, hair is a thing." — Rosamund ([08:57])

3. Decline in Health and Medical Mysteries

[09:08–16:38] Ella's Illness Progresses

• Describes Ella’s initial symptoms, hospitalizations, and repeated health crises.
• The family’s life is disrupted by constant resuscitations, ambulance rides, and the tension of never knowing when an attack will strike again.
• Despite frequent hospitalization, Ella remained bright, ambitious, and academically able.

Timestamps:

• [11:03] Ella falls ill during a family outing; symptoms dismissed as a cold.
• [12:10] First near-fatal episode and hospitalization.
• [14:11] Chronic hospital life becomes the norm; Ella's resilience shines.

Quote:
"She knew all the doctors, so if she was going to be admitted at whatever day, she knew who was on. She could have run that hospital." — Anna Sinfield ([15:01])

4. Searching for Answers: The Fight for Truth

[16:38–19:47] After Ella's Death

• Ella passes away at age nine; immediate cause attributed as “respiratory failure.”
• Rosamund, dissatisfied, demands deeper investigation, including a post-mortem and tissue analysis.
• Ella's lungs showed damage akin to a lifelong smoker, shocking her doctors.

Quote:
"When they opened her up at the post mortem, she looked like she'd been smoking cigarettes. That's when we saw the extent of the damage." — Rosamund ([22:01])

5. Connecting the Dots: Air Pollution as the Culprit

[19:47–28:03] From Questions to Activism

• Launches the Ella Roberta Foundation on what would have been Ella’s 10th birthday, aiming to prevent similar tragedies.
• Investigates possible environmental triggers, finding a critical clue in air pollution after a tip from a community member.
• Legal support from human rights lawyer Jocelyn Coburn leads to a pivotal case.

Timestamps:

• [22:36] Foundation origins
• [24:26] Air pollution hypothesis emerges
• [26:35] Legal case: Fires up when discharge papers and pollution spikes are correlated.

Quote:
"She pinned it together that 27 out of the 28 times there was a spike in air pollution, Ella had been admitted to hospital. And on the night of Ella's death, the air pollution there had its biggest spike ever." — Rosamund & Anna ([26:35])

6. Landmark Legal Victory

[27:09–29:32] Making History

• Second inquest in 2020 establishes air pollution as a key causal factor in Ella’s death, setting a legal precedent.
• Ella becomes the first person in the world to have air pollution listed on her death certificate.

Quote:
"If it wasn't for the air around Lewisham, where Ella lived, not only would she not have got asthma, but she wouldn't have died on that fatal night when it was at its highest." — Rosamund ([28:03])

• Coroner's admonition:
  "Thank goodness you didn't listen to me, because otherwise we actually wouldn't be here." ([28:11])

7. Systemic Implications and Ongoing Activism

[29:32–38:15] Beyond Personal Loss

• The historic ruling triggers broad governmental and scientific acknowledgement of air pollution’s health risks.
• Despite increased awareness, Rosamund voices frustration at slow government action.

Quote:
"The government, trust me, they fought us all the way. And I think people need to question, why aren't there more people with it on their death certificates?" — Rosamund ([30:29])

• Anna shares statistics: 8 million global deaths per year from air pollution; 40,000 annually in the UK; women, children, and people of color are disproportionately affected.

8. Anna’s Family Story Parallels Ella’s

[31:47–35:54] Rachel Sinfield on Kit’s Loss

• Rachel recounts Kit’s abrupt health decline at 17 months, echoing Ella’s medical journey.
• Unaware at the time, Rachel later realizes her family lived on a high-traffic, polluted road—connecting her experience with Rosamund’s advocacy.

Quote:
"When I saw you doing the interviews, it just added a sort of layer because it just helps you have another layer of understanding, of course." — Rachel ([35:26])

9. Living with Loss, Building Legacies

[38:15–44:23] Finding Strength and Creating Change

• Rosamund becomes a leading global campaigner: WHO Breathe Life ambassador, Ella Roberta Foundation leader, advocate for health and environmental justice.
• Rachel channels grief into bereavement counseling, working to help others process loss.
• Both discuss pride in family resilience and the importance of keeping their children’s memories alive.

Quotes:
"I am proud that I didn't allow Ella's illness and subsequent death to cloud everything... And I'm really happy how I've supported my other children because it could have easily gone so badly wrong." — Rosamund ([41:01])
"I'm very proud that we've been able to grasp that Kit's legacy has not been sadness. I will always feel sad about him, but what I love and feel proud of is that he's still part of our family." — Rachel ([41:52])

10. Lasting Memorials and Continuing the Campaign

[44:15–46:24] Ella’s Statue & Global Impact

• In April 2025, a statue of Ella is unveiled near her Lewisham home, hair intricately recreated by her siblings.
• The statue’s plinth lists air pollution as the cause of death — a bold public statement intended to raise lasting awareness.

Quote:
"We've put her cause of death on the plinth. People stop and people read it. So when it comes to raising awareness, I hope it goes on to remind people all over the world air pollution is a health issue." — Rosamund ([44:33])

• Rosamund emphasizes that mild or moderate asthmatics should not panic, but that clean air is a universal necessity.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On refusing to accept easy answers:
  "Respiratory failure is a generic term. That does not tell you anything about Ella's journey, really." — Rosamund ([17:05])

• On maternal determination:
  "Too late. In February 2015, Rosamund does an interview with her local paper, asking for help to find the cause of Ella's death." — Anna ([24:11])

• On solidarity through shared pain:
  "I just couldn't see how my life was meant to carry on. And there are moments when it all can get too much... But one thing I do know is you have to learn, is what I say, to live without your child." — Rosamund ([38:36])

• On advocacy as legacy:
  "Ella's story has reached everywhere you can possibly think, and what it has done has inspired people in different countries to take action." — Rosamund ([37:30])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:23 | Anna introduces the episode & triggers | | 07:13 | Anna and Rachel meet Rosamund; introduction to Ella | | 11:03 | Ella’s symptoms first emerge | | 14:11 | The Sinfield and Kissi-Debrah families navigate hospital life | | 16:38 | Ella’s death & unresolved questions, autopsy details | | 22:36 | Foundation launch; pivot to air pollution investigation | | 24:26 | Key discovery: air pollution's link to asthma attacks | | 27:09 | The 2020 inquest and legal victory | | 29:32 | Societal ramifications, government awareness | | 31:47 | Rachel describes Kit’s final illness | | 38:36 | Mutual support in grief, finding purpose in advocacy | | 44:15 | Unveiling of Ella's statue and international impact |

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Tone & Language

• The episode weaves empathy, warmth, and determination.
• Anna’s narration is sensitive and candid, with gentle humor.
• Rosamund and Rachel speak openly about loss, resilience, and the drive for justice.
• The conversation retains a supportive, mutual, and inspirational dynamic, with hope for positive change rooted in personal tragedy.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a deeply personal, yet globally relevant conversation tracing two mothers’ journeys through inconceivable loss toward activism and healing. At its heart is the story of Ella Roberta Kissi-Debrah, whose tragic death led to legal and societal breakthroughs in recognizing air pollution as a silent public health crisis, and Kit Sinfield, whose memory inspires ongoing work in bereavement support.

For listeners, the episode offers:

• Honest insight into childhood asthma and its potential environmental causes.
• The importance of advocacy when official answers aren’t enough.
• The pain and pride of living with child loss.
• A powerful case study in how one family’s search for answers can effect systemic change.

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Further Resources

• Ella Roberta Foundation
• Womankind Worldwide
• For more on the innovative women featured in the season, visit Novel.Audio

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Transcript

[Anna Sinfield]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.

[Laura Vanderkam]

This is Laura Vanderkam from before breakfast. We've all been there. You're trying to get dinner started or just need 10 minutes of peace to finish a phone call. You want to give your kids something to do, but you want it to be good content. That's where LingoKids comes in. It's an app for kids 2 to 8 that focuses on pure interactive joy. It turns their time into an adventure where they're exploring and playing in a safe space, but built just for them. You get a moment to breathe and they get an experience they're actually excited about. It's the kind of win win every parent needs. Lingokids. Everything kids love. Give your kids the play they love. Download the LingoKids app now on your phone or tablet and it's free.

[Roald Dahl Podcast Host]

Bettering your business takes working with the best. With the James Hardy alliance, you gain access to leads, training, networking, and support from the number one brand of siding in North America. Achieve new levels of success by joining the James Hardy alliance today. You know Roald Dahl. He thought of Willy Wonka in the bfg, but did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, the Secret World of Roald Dahl, I'll tell you that story and much, much more.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

What?

[Roald Dahl Podcast Host]

You probably won't believe it either.

[Anna Sinfield]

Was this before he wrote his stories?

[Laura Vanderkam]

It must have been okay, I don't think that's true.

[Roald Dahl Podcast Host]

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy.

[Rachel Sinfield]

Was.

[Roald Dahl Podcast Host]

Listen to the Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrea Gunning]

Hi, listeners. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. Season five follows one woman as she uncovers her husband's secret life, the one he led when the lights went out. I'm excited to share the Betrayal Season 5 story with you and want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of Season 1, Season 2, Season 3, and Season 4 of Betrayal and every single episode of Betrayal Season 5 100% ad free with an I Heart True Crime plus subscription. Available exclusively on Apple Podcasts plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Betrayal Season 5 one week ahead of everyone else. Available only to I Heart True Crime subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime plus and subscribe today.

[Jamal Jordan]

Hi, listeners. I'm Jamal Jordan, the host of Rorschach Murder at City hall podcast. In July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis, an ambitious rising star in Brooklyn politics, was murdered inside New York City hall, shot to death in front of more than 200 people. The killer? His political opponent, a man named Neil Askew. The full story of this shocking public murder and the relationship between these two men has not yet been told. Until now. I want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of Rorschach Murder at City Hall 100% ad free with an iHeart True Crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Rorschach Murder at City hall one week ahead of everyone else. Available only to iHeart True Crime plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime plus and subscribe today.

[Anna Sinfield]

Novel. Hey girlfriends, I just wanted to give you a heads up that this episode includes conversations about losing a child to asthma. I want to stress that these are really extreme cases, so if you or a loved one has got a manageable case of asthma like I do, please don't worry. We mostly just get wheezy when we go to the gym, but I'll also, as an added bonus to this episode, be introducing you to my mother When I was very young, I was diagnosed with asthma and my parents weren't taking any chances. My bedroom floor was made up of corkboard tiles because carpets have mites and mites can trigger asthma. Dust catching curtains got replaced with blinds. My bedding was a thin, lifeless but hypoallergenic duvet. For most it'd be over the top, but I can understand why my parents did it. Eighteen months before I was born, my brother Kit died of a completely unexpected asthma attack. He was just 17 months old. And there I was, the hopeful new baby born into a house full of heavy hearts with the same terrifying condition. Although my parents loss was never my loss, I do think it had a hand in shaping who I am today. One of my earliest memories is finding my mom crying on the stairs and trying badly as a young child to comfort her. I've always been a bit of a watcher, often on the outside of people's pain, trying to reach in and soothe them. I'm sure that's why I do this job. Both my parents had wondered for decades why Kit, a seemingly healthy toddler up to that point, had suddenly become so sick. The absence of a satisfying medical explanation horror both of my parents. In the early days, the hospital just said that his little body wasn't strong enough to cope with their treatment, which was designed to help older patients. It never sat right. Then, years later, mum was listening to the radio and heard about a woman whose story seemed horribly familiar. This mum had also lost a child to a devastating asthma attack in London. This mum was fighting for answers and for justice. And perhaps my mum thought this woman could help her finally understand why this had happened to her little boy, too. I'm Anna Sinfield, and from the teams At Novel and iHeart podcasts, this is the Girlfriend Spotlight, where we tell stories of women winning. Today, Rosamund clears the air. Usually I do this podcast by myself, but like I said, this story isn't mine. It's my mum's, my dad's, and my brother's, and I can't tell it without one of them. So when we recorded this last year, I was in the slightly unusual position of having to introduce my own mum to our guest. And Mum's being a little bit cheeky.

[Rachel Sinfield]

This is the first time I've been on a podcast. And, hey, I feel I'm not too intimidated by her.

[Anna Sinfield]

What are you talking about? So this is Rachel Sinfield, my lovely mum.

[Rachel Sinfield]

Hello.

[Anna Sinfield]

And mum, Rosamund.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Hello. Lovely to meet you. Are you okay, Mum?

[Anna Sinfield]

Yeah, all right. Rosamund is Rosamond. Adieu. Kissy, Deborah. And she's Ella's mum. Ella was born in 2004 at Lewisham Hospital, southeast London, UK. Weighing in at 8lbs, she was a healthy baby girl.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Ella was my first, and I used to teach and firstborns with teachers. Yeah, she wasn't even two and she was playing a keyboard and just being really loud and stuff due to Ella's eyes, her hair, she would always attract attention anyway, so. So people would stop and say, oh, what a beautiful child you have, and things like that. And because she was a bit of a tomboy, she didn't appreciate it.

[Anna Sinfield]

She hated that.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Well, when she was younger, she didn't get it. I was a bit like, they're only being nice. But I guess when you're six or seven, and if you're a tomboy as well, it's not what you want to hear.

[Anna Sinfield]

Yeah. As you can probably tell looking at me, I was definitely a tomboy kid back then. I didn't want people stroking and plaiting my hair all the time and telling me I was pretty. In fact, Mum can attest to it. Once she dropped me off at a kid's house who was all girly and pretty, and they all told me I was pretty. And then I cut off my hair in protest. But these days, if someone told me I was pretty all the time, I'd be delighted.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Bit radical. Cutting off your hair there, I know

[Anna Sinfield]

it was the start of a great rebellion.

[Rachel Sinfield]

I picked her up, I was handed my daughter back and then an envelope which had naughty hair written on it.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Wow. Well, funny, she said Ella had the opposite because she loved her hair. Ella's thing was never cut your hair. But then I think in our community, hair is a thing.

[Anna Sinfield]

Rosamund, Ella and her younger twin siblings were part of a large black British community based in Lewisham, just off the very busy South Circular Road. What did she want to be when she grew up?

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Oh, yeah. So we used to go to Bournemouth every year to see the Red Arrows.

[Anna Sinfield]

That's the Royal Air Force aerobatic team. When they fly past in formation, it looks pretty damn cool. And Ella was inspired.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

She was going to be an air ambulance pilot and she had aeroplanes stuck all on her room. She had it all planned. She was going to go to cadets, then she was going to go to the raf. And yeah, because she went to beavers first. Beavers, cubs and scalps. That's the route we were going.

[Anna Sinfield]

I was the exact same. When I was a kid, my mom suggested I join the Girl Guides, AKA the Girl Scouts to my American listeners, but I said no. I was going straight to Cubs, which was the younger boys contingent. It was all fires and danger and dirt, no sewing machines. And I loved it.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

There you are. I think you're beginning to get a rough idea what Ella was like. A bit like you, really. So no girls, guys? Hell no. That was definitely not her.

[Anna Sinfield]

I do feel like Ella was a bit of a kindred spirit and like me, she was also into music.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

She would hear like music or something on the telly and then she would go, uh, uh, uh, and then she would translate it onto their piano. And I think this is not something normal people do. She could swim, she could dance, she played football. Yeah, she was obsessed. And I was like, wow, you can do anything.

[Anna Sinfield]

In 2010, a six year old Ella was studying the Great Fire of London at school during the October holiday. On a very regular Tuesday, Rosamund Ella and her younger twin siblings went to check out a monument to the fire in central London. There were 311 steps to the top.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Now, Ella was very fit and I thought she had a cold that day, but I do remember her saying to me, I can't climb. And me being mum as usual, going, oh, Baba, you've only got a cold. And coming back, she was sleeping on the train, never sleeps. And she went straight to bed. She doesn't do that. And for the rest of the holiday. She wasn't great, but it wasn't anything that I was concerned with. I just thought she had a cold. That was the beginning marker for me.

[Anna Sinfield]

From that day onwards, Ella developed signs of a very heavy cold and antibiotics from the doctors didn't seem to work. And so she was diagnosed with asthma, which really is a common childhood problem. And life continued as normal. Ella went to school, played with her siblings and friends and kept being, from the sounds of it, a bit of a wunderkind. But only a few weeks later, right before Christmas, all of that changed. Ella had an enormous coughing fit and became hypoxic. A lack of oxygen to her brain made her black out.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

She came around really quickly and it's as if it had never happened. The whole thing was weird. But a week later we were going to go and see pantomime and she was still coughing and I thought, mm, let me take her to the hospital.

[Anna Sinfield]

Ella spent time in hospital that day, but was later discharged.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I promise you, as we left there, everything went normal.

[Anna Sinfield]

But during the night she blacked out again and they went back to hospital.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

She was literally on death's door. She was put in an induced coma and sent to St. George's that's one

[Anna Sinfield]

of London's top hospitals. Ella was put on a ventilator. She couldn't breathe by herself.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

She came round on New Year's Eve and she collapsed again in the hospital. That's when I began to think, hmm, uh oh, what is going on?

[Anna Sinfield]

After only a few months, the hospital basically became the family's part time home.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I remember I was in the canteen getting food and suddenly code read something to children's ward and I was about to pay for my food and I remember saying to the woman at the checkout, that's my daughter, I've got to go. Of course it was her. No one else was that dramatic in the bloody children's walls. So I knew it was her. And when I left her in the ward, she was fine. And from the ward to the canteen, three minutes, all these doctors were running Code Red. I was petrified.

[Anna Sinfield]

But it would happen again and again and again. Rosamund lost count of how many times she had to resuscitate Ella's lifeless body. After she passed out, the 999 calls, the blue light ambulance journeys to five different hospitals across London. Ella would wake up on the wards in the morning and then Rosamund would take her to school and at the end of the day, bring her back to her hospital bed.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

She was very bright, so Although she, at times she couldn't go to school because she was in hospital, she never fell back. She was able to keep up with it. Then she will work on the doctors to allow her to go to school. Wow. I think she began to push her luck. When she asked to do pe, I was like, don't push her luck. And she already had marked out what school she was going to go to. Gosh, she had too much time on her hands. Don't go. Gosh, she had too much time on her hands. That's what hospital does. By the way, when you're admitted to hospital a lot, there's a lot of sitting around and waiting and she didn't think the work from school was challenging enough. And, yeah, she's moaned quite a lot.

[Anna Sinfield]

Wow.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

And she knew all the doctors wrote us, so if she was going to be admitted at whatever day she knew

[Anna Sinfield]

who was on, she could have run that hospital.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

No, let's not get carried away. She was nine. Let's not get carried away.

[Anna Sinfield]

In 2012, Ella was well enough to enjoy a summer full of fun activities and the London Paralympics. And Ella was determined to keep chipping away at her pilot dream. She knew that she had to be inhaler free for a year to stand a chance.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I could never see her coming off her asthma inhaler, but I wasn't gonna put a dampener on her thing. Then when she was having attacks, then she would obviously register how bad she was, but when she wasn't, she was like anybody else. So it was just about for her getting the asthma under control and everything else was going to fall into place.

[Anna Sinfield]

Meanwhile, the doctors treating Ella couldn't figure out what was triggering her asthma.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I promised her we would get to the bottom of why she was becoming ill. She was tested for epilepsy because when she was hypoxic, that is lack of oxygen, if you saw her lying on the floor, you would think she was having an epileptic fit. They even tested her for cystic fibrosis. You know, the doctors couldn't work out.

[Anna Sinfield]

The test revealed Ella was sensitive to allergens but couldn't determine the cause of her asthma. And eventually it all became too much. Ella died in the early hours of 15th February, 2013 from a fatal asthma attack. It was less than a month after her ninth birthday. Rosamund doesn't want to talk about what happened that night. Instead, she wants to remember the incredible person her daughter was.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

The pediatric team, they were really upset because they got used to her on the ward, but also because children generally tend to not die.

[Anna Sinfield]

So Rosamund had some questions for Ella's doctors.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

One of the things that was put on her initial death certificate was respiratory failure. And I remember asking, what is that? I went respiratory failure. I mean, what is that? Respiratory failure is a generic term.

[Rachel Sinfield]

Yeah.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

You could even have someone who's 100 watching the television and suddenly die. Just die through natural causes, and that's respiratory failure. So that does not tell you anything about Ella's journey, really.

[Anna Sinfield]

Rosamund asked the hospital to take tissue samples of Ella's body from top to toe.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

We have the samples still at Great Ormond Street. I think I watched too many X Files.

[Anna Sinfield]

After the break. Detective Rossamond,

[Laura Vanderkam]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. We've all been there. You're trying to get dinner started or just need 10 minutes of peace to finish a phone call? You want to give your kids something to do, but you want it to be good content. Well, that's where LingoKids comes in. It's an app for kids to 2 to 8 that focuses on pure interactive joy. It turns their time into an adventure. When they're exploring and playing in a safe space built just for them, you get a moment to breathe, and they get an experience they're actually excited about. It's the kind of win, win every parent needs. Lingokids. Everything kids love. Give your kids the play they love. Download the LingoKids app now on your phone or tablet, and it's free.

[Roald Dahl Podcast Host]

Bettering your business takes working with the best. With the James Hardy alliance, you gain access to leads, training, networking, and support from the number one brand of siding in North America. Achieve new levels of success by joining the James Hardy alliance today. You know Roald Dahl, the writer who thought up Willy Wonka, Matilda, and the bfg. But did you know he was also a spy?

[Anna Sinfield]

Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

[Roald Dahl Podcast Host]

Our new podcast series. The Secret World of Roald Dahl is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

What?

[Roald Dahl Podcast Host]

And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either.

[Andrea Gunning]

Okay, I don't think that's true.

[Roald Dahl Podcast Host]

I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelts, played poker with Harry Truman, and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever. And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids? The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the Secret World of Roald Dahl on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Andrea Gunning]

Hi listeners, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal Season five follows one woman as she uncovers her husband's secret life, the one he led when the lights went out. I'm excited to share the Betrayal Season 5 story with you and want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of Season 1, Season 2, Season 3 and Season 4 of Betrayal and every single episode of Betrayal Season 5 100% ad free with an I Heart True Crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts Plus. You'll get access to all episodes of Betrayal Season 5 one week ahead of everyone else, available only to iHeartrucrime plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for I Heart True Crime plus and subscribe today

[Laura Vanderkam]

on the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast. What if the Right Fit isn't what everyone expects? In the case of the Right Fit, Ella explores movement, confidence, belonging and learns that not all strength looks the same. Tennis is powerful, fast, focused and kind of fun.

[Anna Sinfield]

Strong swing, Ella.

[Laura Vanderkam]

This Women's History Month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently. A thoughtful episode about identity, courage, and helping kids discover where they truly belong. So it's okay if I'm not quite sure what my thing is yet? It's absolutely okay. When and if you do find a sport you love, you may be the next Gertrude, Tony or Venus at Curiosity Cove. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I've got you. I've got you, got you. I've got you.

[Anna Sinfield]

I've got you.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I've got you, got you. I've got you.

[Anna Sinfield]

Ever since Ella became ill, Rosamund has been asking questions. Why did her daughter, so vibrant and healthy, suddenly become so unwell?

[Rosamund Sinfield]

When they opened her up at the post mortem, she looked like she'd been smoking cigarettes. That's when we saw the extent of the damage.

[Anna Sinfield]

Wow, that's frightening.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

It is. I mean, someone had to explain it to me because post mortems are very complicated.

[Anna Sinfield]

A nine year old's lungs shouldn't look like she's been smoking a pack a day. Rosamund knows she has to do something about this. Together with some of Ella's doctors and her own teacher colleagues on what would have been Ella's 10th birthday, Rosamund launches the Ella Roberta Foundation.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I think our main reason was we didn't want any other child to suffer or go down the route that Ella had. Those days, our pure focus was on asthma. It was the blind leading the blind, basically.

[Anna Sinfield]

Rosamund demands an inquest into Ella's death. But it's not what she had expected.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

The inquest, it's about, who is this person? Was everything right done on the night and did everyone do what they're meant to do? They sort of look at you, the mother, and you have to confirm that this is your child. And then they say things like, did she live at this address? And then you have to confirm yes or no. Oh, it was so horrible. The coroner said to me, oh, Rosamund, you know, you really have done everything you could to keep your daughter alive. I think he could see the state I was in and you now need to let it go. And I think he was trying to be helpful, but I was expecting the inquest to answer my questions.

[Anna Sinfield]

Rosamund is determined to find out what killed her daughter, and she's not going to get an answer here, but she does get one vital piece of information about Ella's asthma attacks.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

It was at the first inquest when they said that her triggers were to do with something in the air.

[Anna Sinfield]

And Rosamond is going to find out what that something was.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I think even the doctors there felt I'd gone through enough and sort of said to me, oh, Rosamund, well, something in the air, that could be anything, so please don't go on a wild goose chase.

[Anna Sinfield]

Well, too late. In February 2015, Rosamund does an interview with her local paper, asking for help to find the cause of Ella's death. Amid responses suggesting that it could have been dairy products, one stands out.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

And it was that person who sort of said, have a look at the air pollution levels around your house. At the time she passed away, Rosamund

[Anna Sinfield]

starts working with Professor Sir Stephen Holgate, a consultant respiratory physician. He spent his entire career researching the link between asthma and air pollution, something that Rosamund says had never previously been considered by medics caring for Ella and hadn't been looked into at the inquest into her death. But Stephen thinks it's played an important part in her illness. A friend of Rosamund's recommends that she speaks to a lawyer they know. One day, she travels from Lewisham to Euston Road, right in the bustling centre of London. Rosamund looks up at the towering buildings around her, confused about where her friend is sending her.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I was like, I can't afford any lawyer here. And going in to meet her. Jocelyn's really tiny, but she's formidable.

[Anna Sinfield]

Jocelyn Coburn is a human rights lawyer. She's a big deal. I'm talking changing the European Convention of Human Rights. Big deal. Many of her cases are about the right to life and whether the state has failed to protect people. And one thing considered a universal human right is the right to breathe clean air.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Jocelyn was looking for people that might be impacted by air pollution. One of the things I told her at that meeting is, I haven't got any money and we're not selling our house. My words to her were very careful. I think I have what you need,

[Anna Sinfield]

but I'm not sure Jocelyn wants to work with her. So Rosamund and her growing team of experts get cracking. They hand over to Jocelyn all of the evidence they've gathered about air pollution in the local area.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

A lot of credit has to go to her. It was Jocelyn who looks at Ella's all her discharge papers and she looked at the readings on the South Circular.

[Anna Sinfield]

That's the major London ring road which Rosamund's family lives next to.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

She pinned it together that 27 out of the 28 times there was a spike in air pollution. Ella had been admitted to hospital.

[Anna Sinfield]

And on the night of Ella's death, the air pollution there had its biggest spike ever. The traffic on the heavily congested South Circular was causing illegal levels of nitrogen dioxide around Ella's home.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Jocelyn, Ella's lawyer, looked at it and said, you know, leave it with me, as she began to build a case.

[Anna Sinfield]

In 2019, the family applied to the High Court for a fresh inquest into Ella's death, to look specifically at the role played by air pollution. And in 2020, Rosamond and Jocelyn, armed with expert evidence from Professor Stephen Holgate, go to court.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

We were in that second inquest for two whole weeks and we were victorious. See, with Ella, there was absolutely no doubt and the coroner was very clear. The summing up took over an hour. And some of the conclusion was if it wasn't for the air around Lewisham, where Ella lived, not only would she not have got asthma, but she wouldn't have died on that fatal night when it was at its highest. And Stephen Holgate called Ella the canary in the coal mine.

[Anna Sinfield]

The coroner reminds Rosamund of the first inquest, where he'd suggested she just let it go for her own sake.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

So what he said to me at the second inquest is, thank goodness you didn't listen to me, because otherwise we actually wouldn't be here.

[Anna Sinfield]

The case makes legal history. The coroner rules that air pollution was one of the causes of Ella's death. She becomes the first person in the world to have air pollution listed on her death certificate. How did that feel at the time?

[Rosamund Sinfield]

It was a moment. It was just unbelievable. It's never been done before.

[Anna Sinfield]

Yeah.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I'm so proud of it. It was a relief. When you don't know why your child died, it's very difficult. And as a mother, it gave me an element of peace that I finally knew why. She'd gone from being a very healthy child to what happened to her, which was catastrophic. She has siblings. I had to explain to them why the sister they adored was no longer here. I was exhausted and I now accept that for all she suffered, she didn't die in vain.

[Anna Sinfield]

After the break, campaigner Rosamond. The second inquest into what happened to Ella did confirm that air pollution was a contributing factor to her death by asthma. But the coroner went further than that. He said, quote, the health impacts of air pollution have been acknowledged for many years. His report stated that more should have been done to alert doctors, nurses and patients to the dangers of air pollution.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Scientists knew, as the inquest showed, and government knew, as the inquest showed, but ordinary people on the streets, no, they didn't know about air pollution. The government, trust me, they fought us all the way. And I think people need to question, why aren't there more people with it on their death certificates? I'm not going to say it's a conspiracy, but I'm going to say that if you went to court, I think they would fight you every inch of the way. The coroner wrote to the Health Minister, wrote to the Transport Minister, wrote to all the Royal Colleges, wrote to the Mayor of London's office. He didn't just write to the Environment Secretary. He didn't see this as just an environment issue. No, it's a health issue. But all the departments need to work together to resolve this. So this is a big thing. This is more than me, more than Ella, more than anyone. And over the last 10 years, especially the amount of research that has come out that has shown the impact people living with all sorts of illnesses, I feel like we have an invisible killer in our midst. It's in our homes, it's on the street.

[Anna Sinfield]

But air pollution was not on my mum Rachel's radar back in the 90s. Similar to Ella, my brother Kit's asthma had come out of nowhere.

[Rachel Sinfield]

I just remember when we picked up the death certificate for Kit and it's. It literally is in black and white and it hits you kind of like a slap on the head. It said bilateral hemorrhagic pneumonia. Basically means lungs, shreds, bits, you know. And he had to be put on a ventilator with his last attack. He was 17 and a half months when he died and he'd had four attacks.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Was he born with breathing difficulties?

[Rachel Sinfield]

He was a really healthy little boy, heaviest of all my babies. And at about 15 months he developed and again, the oncoming of winter, starting to get infections and colds. And I think it was in September he had his first attack.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

That's when the weather changes. Oh yeah. And I think it's the second week in September is when most children in this country are admitted to hospital with asthma.

[Rachel Sinfield]

It starts to ring bells, doesn't it?

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Yeah.

[Rachel Sinfield]

The similarities. And I think he basically had three attacks which had us having previously had a normal time parenting, we were running to the doctors, the hospital, and he was hospitalized each time. You want your child to be in the right place at the right time, but it's on a cold November night at 2 o' clock in the morning. Is that the right time, you know, to make that dash? It's really difficult. It's that judgment call. And he was a very smiley, gorgeous little boy. Yeah, yeah. And he was on steroids for 10 days and then he came off because they wanted to see what would happen. And he got an infection, a cold. When he got that last infection, we were at the doctor's in the evening and then he rushed him into hospital in the morning and he died later that day. And actually none of the medication, the nebulizer, nothing worked. Nothing worked.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I'm not laughing cause it's funny. I'm laughing because I recognize that.

[Rachel Sinfield]

And it was just unstoppable. Yeah. And at the end of it, you know, obviously you had an extreme case. We had an extreme case. We had the full pediatric team in tears.

[Anna Sinfield]

Kit died on November 17, 1990 at the Whittington Hospital in Archway, London. When his death was announced, my parents fell in a heap in the corridor, but they couldn't stay there. They had to go home to their three and a half year old son, Ben, who'd just lost his best friend and didn't understand why or how. It took a lot of bereavement counselling for my folks to not only get through this time, but continue to be amazing. Parents and successful in their own lives and careers. They only stopped that counselling when they had me. But it didn't mean they stopped thinking about how Kit's death came about.

[Rachel Sinfield]

I thought the trigger was his infections and that's what I thought for years and I do think they played a part. But the detail I haven't added and in a way, it came like a flash to me really, when I saw you giving interviews after that second inquest is we were living on a busy

[Anna Sinfield]

road, ah, at the time, my parents, big brother Ben and little Kit, lived at the top of a hill in Highgate, a leafy North London suburb. But the road they lived on was the main artery into the area and there would have been loads of cars in both directions every morning and every night.

[Rachel Sinfield]

When I saw you doing the interviews, it just added a sort of layer because it just helps you have another layer of understanding, of course. Well, I think whenever a parent loses a child, it's unacceptable because it just goes against how nature is supposed to be.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Part of your future goes with that.

[Rachel Sinfield]

I think part of your future goes part of that hope. And so it's a very difficult thing for people to accept and I think how each person chooses to do that is a really important journey.

[Anna Sinfield]

Once Rosamund knew what had caused Ella's death, she embarked on the next phase of her journey. Over 8 million people globally die each year as a result of air pollution. 40,000 of those people are in the UK. Women and children are disproportionately represented in those statistics and so are black people and people of color. Yet Ella remains the only person in the world with air pollution on her death certificate. Rosamund has made clean air campaigning her life's work and she's leading the fight. She's the World Health Organization Breathe Life ambassador, she runs the Ella Roberta foundation, works with respiratory doctors and is an honorary fellow at the British Science Association. At its core, all of her work is about asthma and air pollution.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I'm just raising awareness about something that's killing all of us, some more than others, that is children who are more vulnerable and their lungs aren't fully formed, or the elderly. And I want the government, or governments, plural, to do something about it.

[Anna Sinfield]

In London, Rosamond and Ella's home city, the mayor Sadiq Khan, has cited Rosamond as an inspiration for his world leading work to reduce air pollution. And it's working levels of nitrogen dioxide, one of the particles that was spiking in Ella's area each time she got sick almost halved between 2016 and 2023.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Ella's story has reached everywhere you can possibly think, and what it has done has inspired people in different countries to take action the same way I campaign here. So that was a positive. The negative thing that I found quite hard to deal with is very little is being done everywhere. Governments know about this now because all the scientists have told them. And I'm like, why aren't they doing more about this? I think it's bad enough knowing, for instance, 54 children have died in the last four years through asthma and anaphylaxic or linked to air pollution. The day no child dies from asthma or air pollution, maybe then it will be time to give up. But there's much work to do, I'm afraid.

[Anna Sinfield]

On this topic, it's been so great seeing Rosamund and my mum together. It just makes me feel so proud of them both for getting through it. I cannot imagine how it feels to lose a child. Most of us can't. But I hope it's been a positive experience for them both to meet someone who truly gets it.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I mean, it's amazing seeing you, because I know you've lived with this for 35 years. I can say to you, the fact that 12 years on I'm sitting here is pretty amazing. I just couldn't see how my life was meant to carry on. And there are moments when it can all get too much. I mean, this year she should have been finishing university and yet here we are talking about her like this, and especially the first few years. I couldn't imagine 12 years on. I can't imagine 35 years on. But one thing I do know is you have to learn is what I say, to live without your child.

[Rachel Sinfield]

I mean, the thing that will never change. And I use that phrase about learning to live with the loss, because you don't get over it, but you do learn to live with it. And the thing that always gets me is I will never see Kit's story play out. And listening to you very movingly describing Ella's ambitions and plans. I mean, Kit only had about 30 words when he died, so we hadn't got that far. But actually, he was learning everything, loving being a companion to his brother. And I would have loved to have seen how that would have developed, but, you know, we can't. But what I did want to do was to not let his death define us and not to let our other surviving children have the childhoods that they should have.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I've just got a very quick question. Do you have other siblings?

[Anna Sinfield]

Yeah, I Got a big brother called Ben, who was Mum's firstborn. And then Kit came in between, then me, and then we had a very late surprise, or mistake, as I like to refer to her, Livy Sinfield. So that's my surprise.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Ouch, Libby. I wouldn't take that lying down.

[Anna Sinfield]

It was a burn.

[Rachel Sinfield]

She doesn't. So my journey has been more about working on the grief. And that story goes on because I had a career in museums and the arts and I had a wonderful time doing that. But in retirement, I'm actually now coming round full circle and training to be a bereavement volunteer with a bereavement charity, because that benefited us so much at the beginning.

[Anna Sinfield]

And what are you most proud of, both of you, after experiencing such a loss?

[Rosamund Sinfield]

I think being a mum, I love my kids. I am proud that I didn't allow Ella's illness and subsequent death to cloud everything. I am very proud that I am normal and boring and I managed to continue to have a life. And I'm proud that I can smile, I can laugh, I can go to the theater, I love art. I can still have a normal life, normal friends. I like the fact that I can laugh at myself all the time and I still have my sense of humor. And I'm really happy how I've supported my other children because it could have easily gone so badly wrong. My hope is they will go on to achieve stuff in their own right.

[Anna Sinfield]

What about you, Mum? Can you be proud of being a bit boring?

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Are you?

[Rachel Sinfield]

Who said I'm boring? I. I resonate so much with what you've just said there, Rosamund, because for me, it's the worst thing that can happen to you. But actually, life goes on and I'm very proud that we've been able to grasp that Kit's legacy has not been sadness. I will always feel sad about him, but what I love and feel proud of is that he's still part of our family.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Absolutely.

[Rachel Sinfield]

He died in 1990, but when his older brother got married, the celebrant mentioned Kit as the brother in the ceremony. I didn't know that was coming, so you can imagine I was in tears. I'm here today, you know, with my wonderful daughter who came 18 months after he died. And I have this opportunity to talk about him, our other daughter. Quite often her friends ask me about her brother. And so he is still part of our family. And even though his life was short, you know, the fact that actually I'm embarking on this journey where I hope I'm Going to help other people to be able to live with their loss. With my bereavement counselling journey, I feel very thankful for the fact that he's had that impact. We now live in Cambridge, so we have left the area where we live with Kit behind, but his memories come with us.

[Anna Sinfield]

But Rosamund still lives in the same house, 30 metres from London's South Circular ring road.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

My children won't move.

[Rachel Sinfield]

They won't move.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

No. I've tried that. They don't want to. I decided not to because I didn't want to upset them. And also the hospital is down the road from us.

[Rachel Sinfield]

It's a good example that there's no right, there's no wrong way. I think you make your own choices.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Yeah.

[Rachel Sinfield]

And obviously your focus. Actually, if that's what the twins wanted, you go with that.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

You go with that. But just to say to people, there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people who live off the South Cycler and. And there are others who live on it. By me moving, it's not going to change it.

[Rachel Sinfield]

And also, does it take the air pollution away?

[Rosamund Sinfield]

No, it doesn't change it. I'm not saying they're not impacted, but if I had to run her siblings into hospital the way I did here, trust you me, I would have put my foot down. But that's not the case, thankfully.

[Anna Sinfield]

In April 2025, a statue of Ella was unveiled in Mansfield park, close to her home in Lewisham.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Her siblings actually made sure the hair was as correct as it could be on the statue, literally every plait, making sure it was exactly how Ella likes it.

[Anna Sinfield]

Her iconic hair.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Yeah. I had a moment of being absolutely overwhelmed because Ella died 12 years ago and there was about 300 people there all together, and you suddenly think, oh, my God, my child. And all these people, some I didn't even know, came out and it was just overwhelming. But it's such a great thing and statues are there forever and ever. We've put her cause of death on the plinth. People stop and people read it. So when it comes to raising awareness, I hope it goes on to remind people all over the world air pollution is a health issue. And, no, I don't want to frighten people. It's about educating and I need to make this very clear. Ella's asthma, it is one of the worst ever recorded in this country. So if you have mild asthma or medium asthma and you take your necessaries, you should be okay. But air pollution affects everybody. Unless we all demand governments to clean up the air. They're not going to do it. So I hope this is the beginning of reaching people who wouldn't normally know about that. The air you are breathing is killing you. And I can't believe this little child who went, I hope my brother and sister, my friends, don't forget me. That's what she was really paranoid about because the twins were so young. There were five when she died. Now people know her in Argentina, Peru, Brazil, Australia. Apparently there's no country that this story hasn't touched. And I don't even know what Madam would have said about that. I don't know. She just literally wanted her siblings and her friends to remember her.

[Anna Sinfield]

And so will the Girlfriends or remember Ella and my brother Kit. If you've enjoyed this conversation, you can find loads more incredible women on our feed. Do check them out. And please do spread the word and tell your friends about us. We want as many people as possible to be part of the Girlfriends Gang. This season we're supporting the charity Womankind Worldwide. They do amazing work to help women's rights organizations and movements to strengthen and grow. If you'd like to find out more or donate to help them secure equal rights for women and girls across the globe, you can go to womankind.org. The Girlfriend's Spotlight is produced by Novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from Novel, visit Novel Audio. The show is hosted by me, Anna Sinfield. This episode was written and produced by Amalia Sortland. Our assistant producer is Lucy Carr. Our researcher is Zayana Youssef. The editor is Hannah Marshall, Max o' Brien and Craig Craig Strachan are our executive producers. Production management from Joe Savage, Cherie Houston and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design, mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Jake Otyvich, Nicholas Alexander and Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Louisa Gerstein and Gemma Freeman. The series artwork was designed by Christina Lemkel. Willard Foxton is Creative Director of Development and special thanks to Katrina Norvell, Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson at iHeart Podcasts, as well as Carly Frankel and the whole team at WME.

[Rosamund Sinfield]

Foreign.

[Anna Sinfield]

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.