David Wain & Ken Marino: "We're Always Modulating The Madcap"

Summary

The Gist — July 8, 2026

Episode: “David Wain & Ken Marino: ‘We're Always Modulating The Madcap’”
Host: Mike Pesca
Guests: David Wain, Ken Marino
Main Theme:
This episode of The Gist reunites comedy collaborators David Wain and Ken Marino (veterans of the sketch troupe The State) to discuss their latest madcap film, Gail Daughtry and the Celebrity Sex Pass. The conversation spans the nature of their creative chemistry, the construction of comedy, movie references, the challenges of ensemble work, their evolution as performers, and the changing landscape of comic references in a fragmenting culture.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Art of “Modulating the Madcap”

• What Makes Their Comedy Tick
  • Wain and Marino reflect on their approach to comedic creation, driven by trying to make each other laugh and finding the line between madcap and madness.
  • "We're always there kind of modulating the madcap. But really it ends with, yeah, did we giggle?" — Ken Marino (07:30)
  • Sometimes, even attempts at more serious work 'backslide' into comedy for them.
    • “Sometimes we've sat down to write things that are sort of more on the serious side of the spectrum, and then we often kind of just backslide into what we... what we find comfortable.” — David Wain (07:39)

2. The Alchemy of Collaboration

• Origins and Chemistry
  • The State formed at NYU with 11 members, but Wain and Marino found a distinct shorthand and productive dynamic working together.
  • “Our strengths and weaknesses fit together like a puzzle as we're writing, creating, you know, shooting, editing, that work really well…” — David Wain (09:20)
  • Their mutual fandom encourages and sharpens each other’s ideas.
  • “Whatever's not overlapping. We're also just commenting on each other's stuff and able to recognize the good stuff.” — Ken Marino (10:17)
• Trust and Process
  • Mutual trust allows them to pursue ideas one might not initially understand.
  • “There's a trust there to be like, okay, if you're really passionate about it, let's do it and show me... And then nine times out of ten... I'll go, oh, of course. Yeah, that's perfect.” — Ken Marino (11:29)

3. Crafting Gail Daughtry and the Celebrity Sex Pass

• Visual & Tonal Inspiration
  • Film references and “gist” drive key scenes; for example, their lovemaking scene borrows from classics like Sex, Lies, and Videotape and Body Heat.
    • “We actually very openly stole tubes. Framing shots from one of my favorite early forming movies, Sex, Lies, and Videotape... also looking at famous sex scenes, picking pieces from Body Heat..." — David Wain (13:43)
• Era Mash-ups: A Timeless LA
  • They aimed for an LA out of time, sprinkled with references to multiple decades—a fantasy Los Angeles as seen through movie nostalgia.
    • “We tried to kind of sprinkle that in and have that vibe that it was timeless... like David said.” — Ken Marino (16:53)
• The Importance of Structure and Cast
  • Despite chaos and jokes, the story structure and casting ground their films.
    • “Structure’s fine, and all the jokes come off... what we are trying to make as tight a story as possible. And then when we diverge, it's a very specific choice at a moment to grind it to a halt.” — David Wain (18:24)
    • "We have a group of really, really skilled actors who can breathe real reality into some of these absurdities..." — David Wain (18:24)
• On Actors Playing Comedy
  • A challenge: avoiding “acting goofy” just because it’s a Wain & Marino film—it has to be grounded.

4. Comedy as Music, Music as Comedy

• Drumming, Editing, and Performing
  • Connections are drawn between the rhythm of editing and drumming, a “busy hands” creative energy.
    • “I'm always keep trying to keep my hands busy, which is also why I'm obsessed with cards and stuff and so... Busy hands could be on my gravestone.” — David Wain (20:09)
• The Middle Aged Dad Band
  • Wain and Marino’s garage band doubles as another creative outlet—a blend of earnestness and comic self-awareness.
  • "There’s a parallel between how we're perceived as silly comedian dudes from a sketch show and like how seriously we take our comedy. And same with the band, like we take it very seriously." — Ken Marino (21:44)
• Ken’s Secret Karaoke Training
  • Ken’s emergence as a frontman came through years of karaoke obsession with his wife, resulting in a dedicated home karaoke room (“Room 9 Tight”).
    • “We built a karaoke machine in our house... so we could each go out and take care of the baby while the other person would stay in there and sing karaoke with our friends.” — Ken Marino (23:34)

5. Ensemble Challenges & Creative Solutions

• Managing Large Casts & Production Constraints
  • Wain delights in the “sport” of how to navigate ensemble productions, such as faking scenes where actors aren’t present together on set.
  • “I did get a little... sporting fun out of how much could we cheat this and still make it make sense?” — David Wain (27:11)
• Cheating Cohesion
  • On Wet Hot American Summer: crowd scenes pieced together over weeks, requiring careful direction and trust.

6. The Relationship Between Fun on Set and On Screen

• Joy Translates
  • “There is a correlation. When you work with people and you're having a good time, it becomes infectious... I think that comes through the screen as well.” — Ken Marino (29:34)
  • Marino and Wain acknowledge professionalism allows them to “fake it” when necessary, but a special energy exists when the fun is real.

7. Genre, Reference, and the Death (or Not) of the Monoculture

• Are References Getting Harder?
  • Despite cultural fragmentation, Wain argues the specifics aren't crucial: “Something that feels specific to me, becomes universal. It doesn't matter if you know it or get it.” — David Wain (32:33)
  • Airplane! is cited as a favorite comedy whose references he only understood years later.
• Riffing on Memories over Media
  • Wet Hot American Summer is rooted more in actual camp memories than camp movies—resonance over recognition.

8. The Comedy Reference Deep Dive

• Airplane! and The Act of Acting
  • The direction to play things straight is likened to Leslie Nielsen’s approach in Airplane!.
  • “I can make a brooch, pterodactyl...” — Ken Marino channeling Airplane! (34:38)
  • David and Ken recently rewatched Airplane! and marvel that it still holds up.
• Borrowing vs. Plagiarism
  • Discussion of studios buying rights when films are derivative, as happened with Airplane! and Zero Hour.
  • “Seems like cheating, right? Don't you want to... actually go to the Supreme Court and challenge copyright law?” — Mike Pesca (35:25)

9. Personal Anecdotes & Fun Detours

• Brief digressions on Long Island (Boomer Esiason, the Islip Garbage Barge), memory lapses (“That’s one of the things Ken and I bond over is our horrible memories.” — David Wain, 37:06), and self-deprecating humor about the host’s voice.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Collaboration:
  • “Our strengths and weaknesses fit together like a puzzle.” — David Wain (09:20)
• On Trusting Each Other’s Instincts:
  • "There's a trust there to be like, okay, if you're really passionate about it, let's do it and show me." — Ken Marino (11:29)
• On Comedy Riffs in Film:
  • “I think we were trying to just create a version of LA... tinged with the influence of the notion of wizard of Oz on some level, but more to the point, just had that fantastical... fun version.” — David Wain (16:33)
• On Ensemble Directing:
  • “I did get a little sort of sporting fun out of how much could we cheat this and still make it make sense?” — David Wain (27:11)
• On the Universality of Specifics:
  • “Something that feels specific to me, becomes universal. It doesn't matter if you know it or get it.” — David Wain (32:33)
• On Joy on Set:
  • “When you work with people and you're having a good time, it becomes infectious and... comes through the screen.” — Ken Marino (29:34)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–04:54: Pesca’s ‘Gist List’, stray thoughts, and show setup
• 05:34–06:26: Satire sketch about “celebrity sex pass”
• 07:10–12:25: Wain & Marino on comedic process and partnership
• 13:40–15:38: Crafting specific scenes & influences (Body Heat, Sex, Lies, and Videotape)
• 16:33–18:24: Film’s time/era influences and constructing a fantastical LA
• 18:24–20:00: Comedy structure, casting, and grounding absurdity
• 20:09–22:09: Drumming, editing, and “busy hands”
• 22:35–25:59: The Middle Aged Dad Band & Ken’s karaoke journey
• 27:11–28:44: Large ensemble logistics & the fun of “cheating” movie scenes
• 29:34–31:42: Does fun on set equal fun on screen?
• 31:53–34:17: The comedic referencing, monoculture, and Airplane!
• 34:41–36:51: Copyright anecdotes & comedic borrowing
• 36:51–37:33: Long Island chat & memory gaps
• 37:33–37:56: Closing thanks and jokes

---

Episode Tone and Style

• Conversational, fast-paced, self-aware.
• Mix of industry-insider reflections and playful asides.
• Equal parts celebration of creative process and gentle mockery of their own quirks and memory lapses.

---

Conclusion

This episode is rich with insights about comedy craftsmanship, the endurance of collaborative trust, the balancing act between homage and originality, and why fun—on stage, on screen, or in a cramped karaoke room—is contagious for both creators and their audiences. If you love meta comedy, ensemble chaos, and the nuts and bolts of making the “madcap” work, you’ll find this episode endlessly entertaining.

Transcript

[Mystic/Advisor]

Foreign

[Mike Pesca]

It's Wednesday July 8, 2026 from Peach Fish Productions. It's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca. One of the things I'm gonna miss about doing this show is just having a repository for everything that flits across my consciousness after, you know, a good

[Interviewer/Host]

deal of culling and editing.

[Mike Pesca]

For many years I have kept a list on the notes app of my phone. I called it the Gist list. Before that clever branding was taken and applied to substack. And I got to tell you, going back years and years and years. First of all, the lack of AI technology to detect what my mistypes were. I'm going to say that it relegated some of the greatest thoughts in human history to indecipherable nonsense like this note from I don't know, six years ago. Three tech things. I hate when there are numbers to enter and up pops a clow out. What could that possibly mean? Then I go on to write. Yeah. Then with other numbers, zip code you have to use the keyboard.

[Interviewer/Host]

I don't think it's one of three

[Mike Pesca]

tech things I hate. I think I know what I was saying. I hate it when there is a necessary number to enter on your cell phone and the tech is good with this and. And it gives you a keyboard where the numbers are big and you can type in the number but then in the very same form they ask for your zip code and there is no such assistance so you got to shift and use the little keys. I'm a big fingered guy so I normally screw that up. I don't know what a cloud clock is. Here are some other brilliant ideas and you could tell how long ago they were that I never got to. I wrote down AG William Barr is an anagram for brag I'm a law liar.

[David Wayne]

What?

[Mystic/Advisor]

What gold?

[David Wayne]

What?

[Mike Pesca]

I didn't do anything with that. I wrote down Nigeria import toothpicks. What I just recently searched for it is true. Here's a tape from 2018. This is a Nigerian little background scoring.

[Interviewer/Host]

I do Agba because every time you

[David Wayne]

bring in a shipload of rice you also bring in a shipload of unemployment because you are transferring your wealth to sustain other economies. Somehow Nigerians didn't notice it so we became a nation of importance. Toothpicks. Toothpicks each year cost us $18 million importing toothpicks.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. The Nigerians have a very weird and bad and backwards and protective system where they have to import things that they could make like toothpick. They have an enough wood and even if they had just kind of a small amount of wood splintering it into toothpicks. The technology is not beyond really most anyone. It's just the will to do it and the fact that they incentivize the Chinese toothpick importation. By the way, Ado Ogba died. He was the Minister of Food and the Minister of Agriculture. And since I had that thought, he died. He died in 2025. So we say ADU to odd. Do. Do we know if my thoughts will ever go anywhere in the future? I will say this. This is the last germinal thought I had, the last unfully explored thought I had. I wrote, are drones like the DSA insofar as there are two orders of magnitude cheaper, they're more nimble, they're more improvised, a threat to much better resourced examples of empire. So drones are causing a hard time, cause a hard time for the US and Iran, causing a hard time for the Russians in Ukraine, just like the DSA is taking it to the establishment Democrats.

[Interviewer/Host]

So I guess would be the Russian

[Mike Pesca]

military in this analogy. Again, it's not a fully formed thought. It was just on this just list that I kept. I guess in this analogy, now that

[Interviewer/Host]

I think about it, the Tea Party

[Mike Pesca]

was a little like Al Qaeda because that was asymmetric warfare. But also the insurgents burned themselves out. I damn it. No more Gist to either fully form these thoughts and bring them to you or realize that the best thing that I could do is never subject you to them in the first place. On the show today, I am joined by a repeat guest of the Gist and a new guest who's been his longtime partner. Who I'm speaking of is David Wayne and Ken Marino. They are former members of the MTV sketch comedy show the State and they're out with a new movie, Gail Daughtry and the Celebrity Sex Pass David Wayne and Ken Marino. Now, if I do a spiel, I will say and I will follow that, by the way, scratchy voiced interview. I couldn't help it. But I will follow that interview with David and Ken with a spiel that

[Interviewer/Host]

I found because I was looking back

[Mike Pesca]

at the last time or one of

[Interviewer/Host]

the first times David Wynn was on.

[Mike Pesca]

It wasn't the last time, but he was on in 2018 to talk about a movie that we talk about in the interview about National Lampoon. But I did a spiel about Necco wafers and I did not say in that spiel which, which still holds up that of course they're going to be back every time they kill anything with any Bit of nostalgia. Any food product with nostalgia, someone says,

[Interviewer/Host]

let's buy it back.

[Mike Pesca]

The brand has equity. And that's what happened. That's the Necco Wafer update. Enjoy.

[Mystic/Advisor]

I am looking at you, and I am listening to your spirit, and I am sensing that something is on your mind.

[Caller/Guest]

Am I correct? Oh, my God. How did you know that?

[Mystic/Advisor]

It is my business to know.

[Caller/Guest]

I'm engaged to be married, and I really, really love my fiance, Tom. But something happened, and I don't know what to do.

[Mystic/Advisor]

Let me connect with this. You each had an agreement. Yes. To be able to have sex with a certain celebrity given the opportunity.

[Caller/Guest]

Yes, exactly.

[Mystic/Advisor]

And Tom went too far in the back of a bookstore.

[Caller/Guest]

Yes. Wow. So what do I do?

[Mystic/Advisor]

If you are going to continue your relationship with Tom, you must have sex with your celebrity crush.

[Caller/Guest]

So if I want to repair my

[Mystic/Advisor]

relationship with Tom, you must have sex with Jon Hamm.

[Interviewer/Host]

Ken Marino and David Wayne were members of the state. Now, at this point, David's been on the show before. I believe this is Ken's first appearance. So I've collected eight of the 11 original members of the state in their original packaging. I think I have five to six kids in the hall, but I'm trying, you know, I have only one Monty Python, and the set has the. The. It has sailed on many of them. Ken and David have collaborated on a fantastic new movie called Gail Daughtry and the Celebrity Sex Pass. I have to credit any movie which pretty much tells you the title, the plot, right in the title, and by law, I have to describe it as madcap. It is a madcap movie. Is it a madcap farce? A little bit. David, Ken, welcome to the show.

[David Wayne]

Great to be here.

[Ken Marino]

Thank you so much.

[Interviewer/Host]

How do you. How do you get the madcap? How do you go after madcap? Look what's right up to the edge of madcap. And then Ken says to David, or David says to. David said to Ken, we're almost there, but we're not exactly capped at the madness.

[David Wayne]

I feel like all we ever do is try to make each other laugh. And if we do, we put it in.

[Ken Marino]

Yes, We. We're always there kind of modulating the madcap. But really it ends with, yeah, did we giggle?

[David Wayne]

And sometimes we've sat down to write things that are sort of more on the serious side of the spectrum, and then we often kind of just backslide into what we. What we find comfortable.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, that doesn't work. Why do they need you guys for that? So I am curious about. With all 11 members of the state. And there's so many cross collabs over the years, and I can't name them all, but it seems like everyone is collaborated with everyone else and sometimes all of you together. And how does it come about that Ken works with David on this particular project?

[David Wayne]

Well, just for people who might not know that the state you're referring to was an 11 person sketch comedy troupe that we started when we were all kids at nyu. And as you said, we've continued to collaborate in different groupings over almost 40 years now. And I would say you and I, Ken, started writing together and enjoying writing together during the state.

[Ken Marino]

Yeah, absolutely. Very early on we would, you know, during the state we would always break off in smaller groups because every day we would have writing session, like session. We'd have writing sessions and then we'd have meetings where we would read whatever material we wrote that day. And. And David and I really enjoyed pairing off just the two of us. So we would, you know, you know, invite somebody else to come in and we would write stuff. And we enjoyed it very early on. And so we just tried to, you know, we just continued that throughout the year. Decades.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. What do you think it was about the particular alchemy of you two where you complemented or added to each other, specifically that combo?

[David Wayne]

Someone was just asking me this just in conversation the other day, and I, I feel like, I mean, what, what is obvious in our daily interactions? I think we are overlap of shorthand, of what we both find funny and where and how we both have a certain work ethic and certain priorities creatively and process wise that work really well together. And then we're also quite different from each other in other ways. And I think that where our strengths and weaknesses fit together like a puzzle as we're writing, creating, you know, shooting, editing, that work really well, you know. And I would say Ken has a certain developed visual sense that is really his brain imagines things in ways that I couldn't and I think vice versa. And it's really a cool, cool partnership.

[Ken Marino]

That's right. There is overlap and then we have sort of different things that we enjoy that, that the other person maybe doesn't think of at the time. But I think the magic or the magic of it or what's really nice about it is I'm a fan of the stuff that isn't the overlap that David creates. And so, like, I can, as a fan, I can recognize like when it's real good or when it's like, you know, like. And I Can kind of comment, well, that's sort of like that other stuff that you like. And I think he's a fan of, you know, like stuff that I come up with. And so whatever's not overlapping. We're also just commenting on each other's stuff and able to recognize the good stuff.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right. So you could each stand outside the collaboration or when each of you does some other things and see it fresh in a way that the other one appreciates.

[Ken Marino]

That's right.

[David Wayne]

Yeah. And I would say always having the other person there just to be like, having someone else in the room and be like, what do you think? And yes. No, I don't know. You don't have to say anything. I know your, your one quarter second of silence speaks volumes. Let's move on.

[Ken Marino]

Yeah, we also, we also have moments where, like, we, you know, like, I'll. I'll have an idea and I'm like, I really like this idea. Or David will, like, be passionate about something. I won't get it. But there's a trust there to be like, okay, if you're really passionate about it, let's do it and show me. Because I can't. I'm not. I'm not getting it yet. And then nine times out of ten, when in execution it, I'm, you know, I'll go, oh, of course. Yeah, that. That's perfect.

[Interviewer/Host]

Okay. That's the, that's the track record on that, as you say, because you want to stay in good with your collaborator. But I'll ask you for specifics on two things that each of you mentioned. So David, you said, Ken thinks of things in ways that I wouldn't ever conceive. And then Ken, you said, I'm not getting it sometimes, but when I see it, it works. Can you think of specific examples, maybe even from Gail Daughtry, where each of those things came into play?

[Ken Marino]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I said I didn't get it, but I was like, I trusted that David had an overall vision of what the piece was, and it was the lovemaking scene. So, like, there weren't a lot of. There weren't a lot of joke jokes in it, like, hard jokes in it. It was like a visual thing that he, like, he' I have a whole idea of what I want to do. And I was like, okay. And he, you know, was like, pulling up references and doing all like. And, and. And the whole vibe of it was in his head. And I was like, you have to show me. I sort of understand it, but, like, where are the. The jokes? And the jokes were in just the tone of, like, the. The fact that these two are making love and how they're making love and what's going on. And then, you know, on the day, we threw in extra little. Extra little jokes in there. But, like, to me, it's. As David said, I'm a visual person. So, like, David created this thing that I think is very stimulating and very visual and it's exciting. And I didn't understand it in the moment as well as once it was done. Not as well as until it was done.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you use specific movies for references with that?

[David Wayne]

Yeah, well, we actually very openly stole tubes. Framing shots from one of my favorite early forming movies, Sex Lives and Videotape. And then also we. We were looking at all sorts of famous sex scenes and, like, picking pieces or moments or ideas from, like, Body Heat and was one of them. And, you know, I just. Yeah, I. I did have, like, this gist of an idea in my head, but. And then there's so many examples that I can't think of because I have a horrible memory. But maybe, Ken, you will, where you said you pitch something. And I was like, huh? And you're like, just trust me. Let's try it. And then we tried, and we're like, oh, yeah, of course. This is great.

[Ken Marino]

You know, I mean, one of them is. One of them is in that scene, which I don't know if you didn't get it. I think you did get it right away. But I was like, it was the night before we shot it where Zoe is kissing Jon Hamm. And I was like, it would be cool if we never left the room, like, all the other guys didn't. But, like, it's. There's all these shots that seem like they're intimate and just between the two of them. And at one time, at one point, you just pan down and we're all still standing there. And then we're like, oh, shit, okay, should we leave now? And I think that that was. But I don't think you were like, I don't get that. I think it was just like,

[David Wayne]

you

[Ken Marino]

know, the way we kind of. You throw stuff in and support it and.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, you know, so we should. So we should say Zoe is Zoe Deutsch. She's the title character, the Gail Daughtry. And I guess Jon Hamm's also the title character since he's the celebrity sex pass. Body Heated is, I think, 1981. And sex lives and videotape is. I'm almost certain 1989. Because it went up against. It went up against do the right thing in con that year. And the first words you hear and do the right thing or 1989. But I think that I just have to say.

[David Wayne]

Sorry to interrupt, But I believe 1989 is one of the great years of

[Ken Marino]

movies you just mentioned. By the way, those two movies are like David's Wet Dreams.

[Interviewer/Host]

They are pretty good. Ooh, a mashup would be good. So they're very influential. I found that a lot of the movie was more 90s. I mean, it's a. I don't. Cliche term. Pastiche. Right. And it's also a vibe as much as it is I'm throwing you exactly in the visual style of 80s movies. But you sometimes do that with Wet Hot American Summer, you had to know those camp movies to really get it. And with the Animal House movie whose title I always, you know.

[David Wayne]

Gesture.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes. I always call it a supposedly fun thing we'll never do again. I like those titles, those long titles. Feudal Stupid Gesture is very 70s based. But was that. Was there one era or a range of eras that you were going for in Gail Daughtry?

[David Wayne]

I think we were trying to just create a version of LA that felt like. I mean, it was tinged with the influence of the notion of wizard of Oz on some level, but more to the point, just had that fantastical. The idea of an LA that you would think of having never been there maybe, or from the movies or just a fun version.

[Ken Marino]

Early on in pre production, we talked about the idea of actually having all different times, you know, like, you know, like representing like the 50s and the 60s and the 70s and the 80s and then. And like this idea of like, you know, with a big budget, you know, the cars would be from different eras and you know, you would. If drove down one street, it would. You all of a sudden feel like you're in, you know, Sunset Boulevard and if you went down another street, you're in, you know, Serpico, whatever. But like. But the L A version of it. But, but, but, you know, very small budget. So we tried to kind of sprinkle that in and have that vibe that it was timeless, like David said.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And there are so many characters and so many eras and so many references. But what about the spine? You have to. I know that you guys with your. I mean, I've seen your work and I know how you think you can go crazy and just inundate the audience with so much stuff and dare them to keep up, but I know Also, you have to have a spine of a movie or at least some sort of touchstone for reality. Otherwise the comedy doesn't really play that well. So what was your, I don't know, North Star or way to establish that this would be the constant reality that the audience could come back to so they could find all. All the rest of the stuff funny? Funny being the exception from what you'd expect.

[David Wayne]

I would say two things that come to mind for me are one, truly, actually, everything in the story and the script structure was the main thing. Like, it feels like it's just joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. But in terms of our internal process, it's kind of. Structure's fine, structure's fine, and all the jokes come off. What we are trying to make as tight a story as possible. And then when we diverge from that, it's a very specific choice at a moment to grind it to a halt. And then also the casting and the way that we approach performances is. Is the big grounding element. You know, we have a group of really, really skilled actors who can breathe real reality into some of these absurdities, lines and jokes and situations.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, you've worked with many of them before. In fact, there was at one point, I'm saying to myself, shouldn't Richard Kind be in a movie like this? I'm doing the algorithm. And of course there comes Richard Kind.

[David Wayne]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Do you have to. When they know. When they know that it's a David Wayne movie or a Wayne and Marino collab, do they think about what they're doing a little bit differently than they do with their regular roles? Do you have to remind them of that?

[David Wayne]

Sometimes I would say that it's a problem when they do that. You know, sometimes I've had. We've had actors come in and be like, oh, I'm now working with the goofballs. I'm going to act goofy. And that's the trap. I think that the goal is to be real.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. So a question. Another question for you. This is one of those pretentious questions, but is drumming and editing similar?

[David Wayne]

They certain. I would say yes. And I think about those connections all the time. And also they certainly. I have always had a. What do you. Maybe you call it, a digital fixation. I'm always keep trying to keep my hands busy, which is also why I'm obsessed with cards and stuff and so. And typing and I just. Busy hands is. Could be on my gravestone.

[Ken Marino]

For the. For the viewers. David is a. Is an avid drummer as well as a avid magician.

[David Wayne]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And he uses Avid video editing, I'm sure. And you can. You're the lead singer in the dad. What is the name of it? It's another one of those Middle aged

[Ken Marino]

dad stupid gest as futile stupid gesture.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes. A supposedly fun gesture. I'll never.

[David Wayne]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So the Middle Aged Dad Band, which is a brilliant title because you're not trying to fool anyone. It' in fact, you know what it is? It's an inoculation against the obvious criticism, isn't it?

[David Wayne]

Well, I mean, especially when we, when we first started playing shows, it really was just us genuinely hanging out in the garage and then we started playing some shows and we wanted a way to communicate to the audience that we're not professionals, we're just having fun.

[Interviewer/Host]

But you're so good. I mean, not only are you so good, you'll get people to drop in and you won't know them as singers and they'll blow you away. And it also seems like you have a never ending. Maybe it's like casting a movie, but you have a super deep bench.

[Ken Marino]

Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a parallel between like how we're perceived as, you know, silly comedian dudes from a sketch show and like how seriously we take our comedy. And same with the band, like we're, we're just, you know, we're, we're a middle aged dad group. But like we, you know, we take it very seriously and we want to make it the best it can sound and be.

[David Wayne]

And over the few years we've been doing it, we've been upping our game a lot and there's a few professionals in the band and there's people like me and Ken who just did it for fun. But now I've been trying really hard to get a lot better at the drums to keep up with the way the band is going. And then still occasionally in a big live show, I'll make a very amateur mistake and it'll sort of betray the reality.

[Mike Pesca]

And we'll be back with more of David and Ken in a moment and also, I promise me, with a very scratchy voice. We're back to the Mike Pesca Scratchy voiced interview. The Mike Pesca Scratchy Voice classic with David Wayne and Ken Marino about Gail Daughtry and the celebrity sex Pass.

[Interviewer/Host]

Ken, you're David, you tell me. I'd say Ken is a very good to excellent singer slash frontman of a band like that.

[David Wayne]

I think it's as good as it can be. The whole reason the band even exists or got out of the garage is because it's like, oh, Ken can actually sing. And then that's where it's been very good. The fuel for everything else that we're trying to do, which has been awesome. And, you know, he just happens to be a great singer.

[Interviewer/Host]

Have you done Broadway or have you done musical theater, Ken?

[Ken Marino]

You know, I mean, I've sung musical theater. I've liked. I've loved Broadway, you know, through my life. And, you know, it's what you do when you're in high school and you want to do plays and stuff and. But really my real. And I've always dreamed of wanting, you know, like, had a fantasy about, like, being the frontman of a band, you know, deep down. And that I never told anybody, but until David started this garage band. But, like, the real training was my wife was very into karaoke when we first met. And then I got into deep into karaoke. And then we built a karaoke machine in our house when we had babies that was soundproof so we can sing karaoke while there was a baby monitor in the karaoke room so we could each go out and take care of the baby while the other person would stay in there and sing karaoke with our friends. And we did that for, you know, a long time. And so then in doing that, I practiced every and any song that I could. And so then when David started the garage band, I felt like I had a little bit of a head start.

[Interviewer/Host]

Tell me about this word. Built a karaoke machine. What is that? Tell me about the building of the karaoke machine.

[Ken Marino]

Well, we had a room that was like, in our house that was not. It was like mostly concrete walls. It was like into the. We were in the mountains, in the hills, in the Hollywood Hills. So there was like this room that was like a storage room and you couldn't use it for anything else. So we, along with Joe Litrullo, came over and helped. We built a wall and we soundproofed it. And it was like a six by six room. And we put like a cheap air conditioner to try to kind of circulate the air. And it was six by six. And I built a bench and put the TV up and it was six by six. So we called it the Room Fit eight Comfortably. So we called the room nine Tight. And it became a place that everybody would, like, call up and be like, hey, can we come sing at nine Tight tonight? And it was like. Like, it was this, like, wonderful little.

[David Wayne]

It was really like Andy Warhol's Factory

[Ken Marino]

pretty much, but it Was really cool because, like, Joe, like, sometimes we'd be out of town and Joe the Trillier would call. Be like, hey, can I stop by and sing by night and sing. Sing a nine Tight Tonight. You know, like, as if it was something other than just a stupid little room that we built. But, like, it became this thing that we all talked about and all hung out in and spent many drunken evenings in.

[Interviewer/Host]

I think you guys like to collaborate with a lot of people at a time. I noticed this.

[David Wayne]

Yeah.

I probably speak for both of us, but I always have gravitated towards. I like movies with large ensembles, and I like that sort of puzzle of navigating a large cast and how do you unify them in time and place and theme so that it feels like one story. And many of my favorite movies, Nashville Dates and Confused do the Right Thing are navigating that sort of thing.

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

There was. I watch a video that you talked about. Well, you've done, David, a few videos of some of your techniques. Few of them blew my mind. But one was about how on Wet Hot American Summer, one of the iterations of that, the cast just wasn't there at the same time and you wouldn't know it. And I have seen the people try to execute that where you would know it. I'll throw it out there. The Netflix season of Arrested Development kind of, like, fell apart a little bit. And so. And so is that something where you say, it's a challenge? I know I could do. I want to do it because it's fun to do. Yeah. Tell me how you approach that sort of thing.

[David Wayne]

Well, I have to admit. Yeah. When we did the Netflix follow up of Wet Hot American Summer, that giant cast was irreplaceable because we were coming. We couldn't recast because we were working with the same group of actors and they all had become big stars. And it was. We had this thing like, what do we do? And I learned through that practice to drop any fear of shooting scenes where the actors are all there on different days. And I find it. I do. I have to admit, I did get a little sort of sporting fun out of how. How much could we cheat this and still make it make sense? Because, I mean, that's the. The director's job is to make it all make anything cohesive, whether they're. Whether you're shooting in real time or not. And I always do remember fondly, there's a. There's an ending sequence at the end of the. I think it's the second wet hot 10 years later, where everyone. There's like 30 people in the scene all outside on a field at night. And we shot it for about half an hour a night for the entire 30 day shoot. And then whoever was around, I would just say, stand here. I had a map and I had a diagram and I said, look up there. Pretend there's a. And most of the actors, I can tell you had no idea even what the scene was about because it just was too many things happening once. But I just said, trust me, stand there, say this. Thank you, good night.

[Interviewer/Host]

So most actors have acted against, you know, a tennis ball on a stick, right, at some point. So I guess it's not that much of a difficulty. But with comedy, it's not supposed to be the huge special effects, I don't know, does that count as a special effect? I think it's more special than the digital special effect.

[David Wayne]

I mean, it all comes down to working with people who get it and sort of know what the g. What the gist is.

[Interviewer/Host]

Don't worry, you get the 500 bucks each time you mention it, as we did, as we discussed beforehand, Ken, with all the stuff that you've done, do you find a very strong positive correlation between the fun you have on the set and the fun that is translated in the movie, or. I would be more interested if there were times when you're like, well, I don't know if this is going to work. And it really does.

[Ken Marino]

Well, unfortunately, it's the, it's the first of what you just said. I think there is a correlation. You know, I think it's when you work with people and you're having a good time, it becomes infectious and it feeds the people on the set, around the set. And I think that comes through the screen as well. I think that people feel that even if they don't realize it, they feel they know that those people are enjoying themselves. I mean, I think Gail Daughtry is a perfect example of it. Like, we were having a good time on the set. We, you know, like we all enjoyed each other, respected each other, had, you know, like everybody, like the actors were just vibing off each other. And when you watch it, you feel that they're supporting each other, lifting each other up, and you want to. You. You want to be with that, I think.

[David Wayne]

And that's the some. That's the thing that I was very struck by when I first saw all these guys in that group that ultimately became the state in my freshman year at NYU or my sophomore year, where I was like, these people are being funny in a way that is inclusive and that they're having fun in a way that they're inviting the rest of the audience to join in instead of in a. Instead of in a more snarky way, you know.

[Ken Marino]

That being said, you know, of course there are times in, you know, throughout the many years we've been working where you have to be funny and it's not a fun set and you, you know, you, you muscle up and you do it.

[Interviewer/Host]

And has that not then when that thing gets translated and put before an audience, is your experience been.

[Mike Pesca]

It doesn't do as well?

[Ken Marino]

I don't know. I mean, I can only speak personally. Like when I watch it, I go, man, that would have been so much more fun if it was fun. But I think that with time passing, when I go back and look at something, I'm like, oh, nobody will notice except me. But I do. But ultimately I think there is an energy, there's an extra little special sauce, little layer of something when it, when it doesn't have to have that negative.

[David Wayne]

But I think I would say I agree we've reached a certain level of experience in professionalism where you can, you can fake it and force it when you need to and it's. And nobody really will know.

[Interviewer/Host]

So your movies often riff on genres or riff on recognizable previous work. Wet Hot American Summer, about that very niche camp movie. And I think you'd need to have. Well, at least it would improve the viewing experience if you understood some of the references you were going to. Certainly you have to understand Mad Men. Although that was Mad Men, that was a huge cultural phenomenon since not only Jon Hamm, but John Slattery plays a great role in this movie. Do you think what you're doing is going to get harder as we lose the monoculture and as we lose those references and in a decade no one will even understand what the riff is about.

[David Wayne]

No, I don't. I do not think that for a couple of reasons. First of all, one of my all time favorite comedies growing up was Airplane, which I only learned as an adult is littered floor to ceiling with references that I never got that were to pop culture from an era before I was aware of things and it didn't matter at all. And I would say our movie, Gail Daughtry has big references to things like Mad Men, wizard of Oz, other things that are just not. It's not the point to get them like I think. And same with White Hot American Summer. So many people say it's their favorite movie. They haven't seen camp movies. They didn't go to camp. It's just something that feels specific to me, becomes universal. It doesn't matter if you know it or get it. And I would say that in the making of White Hot American Summer specifically, I actually hadn't even seen most camp movies. We were riffing on our camp memory, our real summer camp memories. Much more.

[Interviewer/Host]

Anyway, did you find that the movies then actually were riffing on the same sort of memories? Like when you went back and watched Meatballs? Or maybe you didn't watch it.

[David Wayne]

I mean, I had seen Meatballs. Yes, of course. And I'd seen Little Darlings, which definitely was like a visual touchstone for it. But more than that, like, people are like, oh, you. You were doing your riff on Sleepaway camp. But I had never seen that. I still have never seen it, you know, or a bunch of other ones like that. But because, you know, camp movies are based on camp and usually they're traditionally had been based on Jewish tinged summer camps in the Northeast. And so there's a universal set of things around that.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. By the way, this was the second time I thought of Airplane. The second time being when you literally said Airplane. But the first time was you were talking about how to act in a movie. And that is exactly the direction that Leslie Nielsen and all the cast used. You know, maybe with one exception where you don't think, you just act. Exactly.

[Ken Marino]

I can make a brooch pterodactyl.

[Interviewer/Host]

Johnny. That's.

[David Wayne]

Yeah, we. We literally. We just rewatched that like a week ago. And it is amazing how well it held up for me.

[Interviewer/Host]

My God, so freaking good. I had one of the Zuckers and Abrams on the show and, you know, we. I learned a lot. But you probably knew this. They were riffing so much or borrowing so much on one specific film, Zero Hour, that the studio advised them and they did, to buy the rights to that. Otherwise they'd be accused of plagiarism or copyright infringement. I found that astounding.

[David Wayne]

Like, that's happened before too, where someone just was. There wasn't. Anyway, that's happened a few times where the movie gets so influenced that they're like, oh, screw it, we'll just buy it.

[Interviewer/Host]

That seems like cheating, right? Don't you want to. As a artist, don't you want to actually go to the Supreme Court and challenge copyright law? No, Ken does not.

[Ken Marino]

Too busy.

[David Wayne]

I want to play some.

[Ken Marino]

That doesn't sound fun at all.

[Interviewer/Host]

They are not. They are not the nine tight. You want to Jam with.

[Ken Marino]

Yeah, they're not the nine tight we're talking about.

[David Wayne]

Although it could be.

[Ken Marino]

Could be a great experience and we

[David Wayne]

could write about it, you know?

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Listen, guys, I want to. I'm sorry for my voice this whole time.

[Ken Marino]

We accept your apology.

[David Wayne]

It doesn't sound like perfect.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, it doesn't sound perfect. We'll fix it in post.

[Ken Marino]

I guess David's been texting me. I mean, you know, what's up with his voice? What's going on? I'm like, just. Just go with it. Don't, don't, don't. Don't shine a light on it.

[Interviewer/Host]

You're like, you said, this guy's legit. He's croaking the whole time. Sorry. A lot of apologies to be had. And we didn't even get to. I'm also from Long island and what is. Is Boomer Siason from West Islip or Isislip?

[Ken Marino]

Where is Boomer from? I don't think he's from West Islip. I think he's. If he is and he's younger than me and then I. He might have been. I don't remember.

[David Wayne]

Is.

[Ken Marino]

I don't.

[Interviewer/Host]

The gar is the garbage barge from West Islip or East Islip?

[Ken Marino]

The garbage barge. The.

[Caller/Guest]

Wow.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yes.

[Ken Marino]

Look, you know, I haven't been to Long island and quite, quite a long time, but the garbage barge. What is that?

[David Wayne]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Host]

In 1987, the Islip garbage barge would not be accepted by some doc. And it was like.

[David Wayne]

Right, right.

[Interviewer/Host]

Traveling around the country and couldn't find a home. And most people I talked from Islip were like, yeah, people know us for the garbage barge. But I guess it's been 39 years. So.

[Ken Marino]

Yeah, I don't. I have a terrible, terrible memory. I'm not going to remember this.

[David Wayne]

That's one of the things that Ken and I bond over is our horrible memories.

[Interviewer/Host]

You think? How do you know you do?

[Ken Marino]

We may. We may not. We may not.

[David Wayne]

I just don't even remember.

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Gail daughter. And the celebrity sex pass is out in theaters July 10th. It was written by and somewhat stars Ken Marino and David Wayne. Guys, thank you both so much for putting up with everything vocally that was coming out of my mouth hole today.

[Ken Marino]

You were delightful.

[David Wayne]

Anything out of Peach Fish Productions, I will listen.

[Interviewer/Host]

You would said the gist. You would have gotten another 500 bucks. You blew it.

[Ken Marino]

Honestly, this was really just a wonderful hour spent with two wonderful people and I thank you.

[Mike Pesca]

Just was produced by Cory Wara. Kathleen Sykes does substack Benistere Bon booked our show, and Jeff Craig runs How To. How To.

[Interviewer/Host]

Still an ongoing concern.

[Mike Pesca]

Michelle Pesca oversees it all. And thanks for listening.