Alex Edelman: "The Hardest Thing to Talk About in a Joke is Israel."

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Gist

Episode: Alex Edelman: "The Hardest Thing to Talk About in a Joke is Israel."
Date: December 26, 2025
Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: Alex Edelman

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Overview

In this episode, Mike Pesca sits down with acclaimed comedian, writer, and actor Alex Edelman. The conversation explores the craft of comedy, joke structure, the unique pressures and pitfalls of performing at New York’s Comedy Cellar, and the enormous difficulty—both personal and artistic—of joking about Israel and the Gaza conflict. Edelman shares insights from developing his celebrated solo show Just For Us, discusses his creative influences, and candidly reflects on how current events impact comedic material and its reception.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comedy as Constant Experimentation

• Comedy Cellar Experience:

  • Edelman emphasizes that even with accolades and experience, audiences don’t always “buy what you’re selling.”
  • He values the Comedy Cellar as a rare environment that encourages comedians to take risks and work out new material—even if sets flop.
  • Notable Quote:

    "Comedy is all about trial and error... you fucking go up on Monday and you try your first new joke and does, you know, 70% of what you thought it might get? And you're like, well, here's in 100. And so, like, it's tough." (08:04, Edelman)

• Effect of Audience & Performance Context:

  • A comedian’s mood and the “liquid dynamics of an audience” influence performances.
  • Edelman shared an example of doing a set at the Comedy Cellar right after watching a somber Holocaust documentary, acknowledging the challenge of carrying that emotional weight on stage.
  • Quote:

    "Is the audience going to sense my foulness? Am I going to be a little more defensive with the audience?" (11:26, Edelman)

2. Structure and Craft of Jokes

• Joke Placement:

  • Edelman moves jokes around within his set to discover what works best, noting new material often emerges in the segues.
  • He advocates for reviewing and organizing jokes on index cards to find new thematic or narrative connections.
  • Quote:

    "Looking at all your jokes on index cards and seeing what they all sort of have in common can sort of give your aesthetic a bit more of a, like, form." (15:05, Edelman)

• Aesthetic and Thematic Consistency:

  • His comedic voice is rooted in anecdote, social observation, and "self-portraiture through recounting”—using personal stories to reflect broader truths (15:53, Edelman).

• The Impact of Mentorship:

  • Discusses Mike Birbiglia’s outsized influence and approach to developing acts, including writing jokes on cards and “invisible pillars” of story structure.
  • Quote:

    "There are invisible pillars that you put early on in the show. So different jokes in the show work better later." (31:38, Edelman, referencing Birbiglia)

3. Comedy’s Relationship to Tragedy and Taboo

• Navigating Difficult Material:

  • Edelman discusses the special challenges of joking about death, referencing personal loss and its influence on his material (death of a close friend and collaborator, Adam Brace).
  • The conversation points to the evolving relationship comedians have with controversial or sensitive subjects as public sentiment and personal experience shift.

• The “Hardest Thing to Talk About”: Israel and Gaza

  • Both Pesca and Edelman agree the current Gaza/Israel conflict is "the hardest topic" for comedians, much more so than even 9/11 was.

  • Key Insights:

    • There’s little comedy to be found “in being right.”
    • Making jokes on either “side” can feel immoral, yet ignoring the subject feels dishonest.
    • Modern audiences are fractured on these issues, making it hard to gauge reception in the room.
    • Edelman feels the only comedic in-road is “in not being sure”—the paradox, the ambiguity, and grappling with the complexity.

  • Notable Quote:

    "There's not a lot of comedy in being right... To be wrong feels immoral, even if you’re pro Israel... it feels immoral to be making jokes in the face of it, an ongoing conflict that ranges in opinion from humanitarian crisis to outright genocide." (42:49, Edelman)

  • On Joking About Complicated Subjects:

    • Edelman is working on new material ("work in progress") dealing with activists whose identities and alliances are paradoxical—and how that inversion itself is where honest comedy arises.
    • Quote:

      “There is comedy in that paradox…something that most people would recognize but isn’t acknowledged is great.” (45:54, Edelman)

4. Artistic Responsibility and Longevity of Material

• Evergreen Shows vs. Topicality:

  • They debate whether shows like Just For Us, written before October 7th, 2023, will stand the test of time or become time capsules.
  • Edelman references John Updike’s notion of work being "conversant with the moment, not beholden to it."
  • Quote:

    “A show and a joke should be conversant with the moment that it’s in and not beholden to it.” (48:54, Edelman)

• Ethical Tightrope and Evolving Opinion:

  • Edelman admits the process of writing ethically about Israel/Palestine is “much harder now”—but sees value in “walking the tightrope,” trusting that thoughtful, nuanced comedy both resonates and challenges.
  • He notes his opinions shift with new information, wanting material that can still ring true years down the line.

5. Craft, Influence, and Comedy Institutions

• Influences:
  • Birbiglia, Maria Bamford, Brian Regan, Moms Mabley, and (complicatedly) Bill Cosby for storytelling, despite Cosby’s subsequent disgrace.
• Comedy’s Changing Landscape:
  • The Comedy Cellar’s enduring value, contrast with shuttered institutions like Carolines.
  • Edelman sees the Cellar’s embrace of craft, progress, and “doing something with your time on stage” as pivotal for relevant, vital comedy.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Comedy’s Trial and Error

  "Comedy is all about trial and error... you're all amped, and you fucking go up on Monday and you try your first new joke and it does, you know, 70% of what you thought it might get? And you're like, well, here's in 100." – Alex Edelman (08:04)

• On Organizing and Understanding Material

  "Looking at all your jokes on index cards and seeing what they all sort of have in common can sort of give your aesthetic a bit more of a, like, form." – Alex Edelman (15:05)

• On the Challenge of Joking about Israel/Gaza

  “There’s not a lot of comedy in being right… To be wrong feels immoral… it feels immoral to be making jokes in the face of it, an ongoing conflict…” – Alex Edelman (42:49)

• On Comedy’s Power in Paradox

  “There is comedy in that paradox…something that most people would recognize but isn’t acknowledged is great.” – Alex Edelman (45:54)

• On the Longevity of Comedy

  “A show and a joke should be conversant with the moment that it’s in and not beholden to it.” – Alex Edelman (48:54)

• On the Risk and Reward of Standup

  "No risk it, no biscuit. So, like, you gotta go out there and, like, bomb on a Tuesday or bomb on a Wednesday... Because, by the way, if a joke works in that room, then that joke is working anywhere else." – Alex Edelman (54:04)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Comedy Cellar & Working Out Material: 08:04–12:32
• Joke Structure, Segues, and Index Cards: 12:32–16:37
• Influence of Mike Birbiglia & Creative Community: 22:54–25:54
• Navigating Taboo Subjects, Israel/Gaza: 41:31–47:36
• Art, Topicality, and the Passage of Time: 47:36–50:43
• Ethics, Craft, and Taking Risks: 53:13–56:31

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Concluding Thoughts

Mike Pesca and Alex Edelman’s conversation is a masterclass in how standup comedy is both deeply personal and, at its highest level, an intellectual and ethical negotiation with the culture. By probing the edge of what is sayable—especially around Israel, Gaza, and Jewish identity—Edelman models the comedian’s responsibility to his audience, to contemporary events, and to himself. The episode is packed with insights on joke structure, the importance of context, the peril and necessity of risk, and the ongoing quest to make meaning (and laughter) out of chaos.

Transcript

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[Mike Pesca]

It's Friday, Dec. 26, 2025, from Peach Fish Productions. It's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca. Some wonderful guests this week and today I bring you Alex Edelman, who won a special Tony, which doesn't have to join the other Tonys in a shorter bus than the regular Tonys. It's a full. I asked him. It's a full height. Tony for past performances. He's also. Since we did this interview, he's been on the show the Paper, which was the Office, or a version of the Office, the team from the Office, but bringing their faux documentary magic to the setting of a newspaper in. Was it an Akron. Was it in Toledo? I'm going to say Toledo. I'm looking this up as we talk. And by we, I mean I talk, you listen. I have to say, and this is not a critique of Alex Edelman or his acting skills. He's one of the best comedians and you'll. You'll hear me effusively praise him as a deep and challenging and just really, really interesting comic. And he's a good actor and his stage presence was awesome and he deserved the Tony. But a critique I have with the paper and shows of that ilk is. I think I might be just over the mockumentary. When it came out with the Office, it was kind of fun. And they never defined who was making the mockumentary. And I love Spinal Tap and I love the Ruddles, if you remember that. So it's a pretty fresh form, and they could get a lot out of it. And then more and more shows were done in mockumentary form to the point where you were like, is there even an internal logic here? Does there have to be? It became a little de facto. And at this point, a lot of the shows, especially on NBC or in the Peacock universe, where you can find the Paper, where you could find this other show called Stumble, I just think the mockumentary stuff gets in the way. There are a lot of jokes that wouldn't play if it weren't in a mockumentary. Like, I'll give you a Stumble joke. It's about cheerleaders. And one of the best cheerleaders on the team, we follow his name, Christina who? And then they go to the rival team and the coach there, whose name is funny and would be funny if it weren't a mockumentary played by Christina Chenoweth or Christine Chenoweth, says dismissively, christina who? And then it cuts to a cheerleader on her team and the Kyron says, christina Hugh. She's a very small Asian cheerleader and her name is Christina who. I think with. Without the mockumentary form, maybe you couldn't have that joke. You'd have to kill that, darling. But maybe a good writer actually could. What you gain is maybe one joke. What you lose is just Are you like me? The sheer tonnage of this, what should be an exceptional, that is the exception to the rule format has become stultifying and a little stale. And so I think if Stumble didn't exist within that form, it might be a better show. Now, I have to say, I tweeted out sentiments aligned with this point, and one of the stars of Stumble said, I hope you keep watching. I love doing the show. And I felt so bad. I said to him, I'll stumble for you. This guy looked familiar. I looked up his career, and this guy was on Soul Plane. And this guy's been in a lot of things. I mean, not only Soul Plane, but Ryan Pinkston, who's really good. He's really good in the show. He was not only a regular in Young Rock, which is a show about the rock when he was young. I understand it's not geological by any means. He was also in, in the beginning of his career, movies like, as I said, Soul Plane, Foreign Exchange, Extreme Movie, the Hannah Montana TV series, Breakdance Academy. Sometimes you hear these shows, you're like, oh, I know this show. And then sometimes you don't. You're like, how did this get made? The answer is Ryan Pinkston, an extremely affable guy, will seek out online critics and somewhat guilt them into not destroying his career. So I totally apologize to Ryan. He deserves a flourishing career. I wish Stumble were not in any way recast actor wise, but just not done as a mockumentary. All right, long way around, we got a full interview with Alex Edelman. How does he relate to all of this? Is he was also in a Peacock Co production which was a mockumentary. None of this is his fault. He is an innocent in all of this. Alex Edelman. Up next.

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[Mike Pesca]

Alex Edelman is a fantastic comedian, and yet he's achieved so much in other realms that that is not even what we lead with. He won the outstanding writing for a Variety Special Emmy. He won a special Tony. They couldn't even name it. For his show. Just for us, he was name Time magazine's hundred most influential people. And I have to say, I don't know how that influence was spreading in the first show I saw you perform last night, but they didn't seem terribly influenced by all your accolades.

[Alex Edelman]

No, they didn't. But by the way, that's part. So Mike is referencing very fairly also. Thanks for that. Yeah, thanks for having me. But. But, yeah, look, some audiences don't want to buy what you're selling sometimes when you're working it out. And the truth is, especially at a club like the Commissella, which is my favorite club on the planet, you have to sometimes ask yourself, like, am I going to perform for this audience right now, or am I going to develop this voice that I'm using for every audience in the future? Because the truth is, comedy is all about trial and error. And the truth is, like, a couple months ago, I came off stage. There are four rooms here at the Commie Cellar, and I came off stage in the original one downstairs. And, like, there were two comics standing in the hallway. And one of them was like, oh, man, great set. And the other one was like, you didn't have a very good one, did you? I was like, no. And the first comic was like, why? And the other comic went. He tried a new joke early, and it kind of didn't work. So it went back to really safe stuff. For the rest of it, it's like, yep, exactly, Exactly. Because it was early on in the week. And, you know, you write over the weekend, you're all amped, and you fucking go up on Monday and you try your first new joke and does you know 70% of what you thought it might get? And you're like, well, here's in 100. And so, like, it's tough. And the truth is, paradoxically, I think the reason this club has had staying power in a way that other clubs don't, is that they sort of encourage that from their comedians and sort of. And the truth is, I'm always really fascinated by the, like, liquid dynamics of an audience. Like, you know, like, I went right before. Not to show my cards too quickly, but right before my set last night, I came directly from a screening at moma of a documentary about the Mengele twins.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, okay.

[Alex Edelman]

And I was like, there were twins?

[Mike Pesca]

Joseph had a twin?

[Alex Edelman]

No. Mengele did these macabre experiments on hundreds of twins and killed most of them. He was the camp commandant at Auschwitz. And so I spent an hour and a half watching this Auschwitz documentary. And I was like, oh, I gotta leave about 10 minutes early before the end of the documentary. Didn't know if there's a happy ending, you know, 10 minutes before the end of this documentary to go do stand up comedy downtown. And, like, was very quiet on the F train from MOMA down to West 4th.

[Mike Pesca]

You have Jude taking a train.

[Alex Edelman]

And then. Yeah, then going, very nice. We'll never get what it deserves. That's a good one. And. And yeah, I really, by the way, I thought of a joke while I was in the documentary. Documentary where it was like, I just saw someone in the 70s bragging at a table going, you know, our family was very important before the war. Like our train to Auschwitz, it had seats, you know, like that.

[Mike Pesca]

We had waiter surface. Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

Our train. When we took the train, Auschwitz. We went in first class steerage.

[Mike Pesca]

Just looking down.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah, absolutely. God, the cattle cars. But it was one of those things where I was like, okay, is the audience going to sense my foulness? Am I going to be a little more defensive with the audience?

[Mike Pesca]

That's not what was going on. Because people should know. You drop in and you are not watching the whole show. But Michelle and I were watching the whole show.

[Alex Edelman]

I know that you saw the whole show.

[Mike Pesca]

So we saw Mike Yard, who's been on Funny youy Should Mention is great, always does great. And he didn't do great. He didn't do great with his broad range of material that appeals to. He does a joke about shaking a piece of shit out of his ass. He does a decent Trump impression. These are jokes that always get big laughs. And they were getting titters. Then the next comedian who goes, he's talking a lot about relationships. A very. I forget the name. Very relatable guy. But it was getting nothing. I'm like, this is a dead crowd. Then you. Which happens, right? Which happens. Because if it's a small room and it's intimate, it can be great.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

But if there are four tables and one's drunk and one's not so great.

[Alex Edelman]

And you can have four bad apples. To me, actually, I always say it's four, four. Four bad. Four bad spaces in the room negate the whole room. Doesn't matter how big the room is. But. Yeah, go ahead.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, but this is what I was thinking. You use it to work out new jokes, but you also use it to tweak jokes. Right. So you did this joke about you questioning your Jewish identity.

[Alex Edelman]

Oh, I go on stage and I go, I'm not Jewish. And then. And then usually that gets a laugh. And I go, I'm not Jewish. I'm a big fan of. And then I check my notebook and then I go, Back to the microphone and go, Jesus Christ. And obviously the joke is that Jesus Christ is ubiquitous and does not require her writing down and that people who are fans of Jesus Christ don't typically need to be reminded. And I said it and got nothing. And I went, oh, wow, it's gonna be one of those, I think.

[Mike Pesca]

I mean, how many times have you done that joke?

[Alex Edelman]

I mean, the funny thing is I've only been doing it for a couple of months, but I've been getting on stage a good amount, so probably like 50 times.

[Mike Pesca]

Does it work better than when I saw you in your next set? You put it second in the set, and I would. That that's a more natural place for it to work.

[Alex Edelman]

It's a bet maybe. But I put it second because I have a little bit of a rapport with the guy who plays piano to bring people on stage, and I like him a lot. And Lefty, the musician is here. We always sort of banter back and forth. And frankly, I love doing comedy here and developing my material, but this club is my home. And like, I started coming here when I was like 15, 16 years old to watch comedy. And I'm 35 now. So, like, to me, you know, getting the chance to perform here, like, I'm in my best mood. Even by the way, I came off that. I would say that. That said that you watch was as bad a set for me, Laughs wise as I've ever had. But, like, if you buy a stock at $0.02 or something and you get it to $0.03, that's still an extra cent. You know, like, it's always money with you people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well done. I mean, again, we'll never get what deserves from me, but. Cause I don't traffic in stereotypes. Wow. There was a really great comic that I grew up with in Boston, and he said, you know, I'm Latino, but I don't traffic in stereotypes. I'll steal any type of stereo.

[Mike Pesca]

That's great.

[Alex Edelman]

It was Tom E. Morello, I believe is his name. It was really fun.

[Mike Pesca]

So it wasn't. It wasn't the. It wasn't doing it first. Because my theory was that many people, many people in the audience know you, but if they don't, just to give them 15 seconds where you seem perhaps stereotypically Jewy, and then you come out with, I'm not Jewish. Might be.

[Alex Edelman]

How very dare you? I don't know. Look, it's. It's possible also, you know, some jokes go first, some jokes go second. Some jokes are closer, Some jokes You know, fizzle around in the middle. Moving jokes around as I try things often yields. I noticed that new jokes tend to spring out of segues. If there are any aspiring comedy writers listening to this, I notice that you can actually start with probably four jokes and moving them around and tying different connections to each other often reveal your voice. Four or five jokes. The more jokes you have, the better. Looking at all your jokes on index cards and seeing what they all sort of have in common can sort of give your aesthetic a bit more of a, like, form.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

You know what I mean? Like, you can actually sort of see what you tend to talk about. My jokes are largely like anecdote, social observation, self portraiture through recounting, which is a really fancy way of saying, like, I find out a lot about myself by talking about how. Talking about other things that happen and what I find worth talking about. So, like, I really love. I really love doing stand up comedy and I really love doing stand up here. But, yeah, I mix my joke placement around to try to see what comes out of the middle of it, and I try to riff as much as I can and, oh, yeah, record jokes and listen back to them the next day.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. The second set that I saw you do, which of course killed. You could tell based on an interaction with an audience member, reminded you of a story that absolutely happened to you and I hope was embellished.

[Alex Edelman]

It was a little bit embellished, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

But it is. It should be. And I give no points off. I mean, I want to be as entertained as possible. It reminded you the circumstance of an audience member who was being a pain in the ass and wasn't giving you anything. You threw out the rest of the set. Like, I'm gonna tell an old story.

[Alex Edelman]

You should be present. Like, you should have your bag of tricks within reach and be present there with. When you're at your best, you're doing both, you're entertaining the audience and you're fostering whatever future thing is going to come. And so, yeah, this audience member who didn't want to talk to me reminded me of a time I didn't want to talk to somebody else. And so I riffed a closing story off of that or remembered an old bit based off of that as the headphones. Sorry, it's for my friend. Rafi is sitting here. It's that bit, but it's a really. It's interesting. What. What are you saying? Yeah, you are.

[Mike Pesca]

She's arrived. Wait, let me turn the mic.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah, yeah, you want to get in here, Ravi, no, no, no. But I.

[Mike Pesca]

That'll be the end credits scene. Rafi. Yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

Sitting here in the chair instead of TikTok.

[Mike Pesca]

Dance or something.

[Alex Edelman]

Oh, my God. Heaven. For fun. No offense, but, like, I. I had a really good chat last week with Eric Idle. You know Monty Python.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I saw that online. Sure.

[Alex Edelman]

It was fantastic. He was so, so great. And he talked about the sort of Monty Python ethos, which was all a commentary on British pantomime, where the audience is like.

[Mike Pesca]

Pantomime means something very specific in Britain.

[Alex Edelman]

Very specific. The type of show.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Alex Edelman]

Where there's lots of drag and lots of men, like, oh, hello.

[Mike Pesca]

It's essentially vaudeville.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Their version of vaudeville. It slaps the vaudeville.

[Alex Edelman]

A lot of tropes. And when the villain comes on stage, everyone's like, boo. And mom comes on stage, everyone's like, ah. Like, it's a. It's a thing. And he talked about how Monty Python, who I never really considered through that lens, were just like pantomime college kids. And now they're pantomime college kids in their 70s and 80s, which is really, really cool. I said to him, we were talking about Spamalot, which is a musical he did for Broadway, and I said, it's amazing that you managed to unite musical theater fans and Monty Python fans, because those are two very different types of virgin. But he's like. He is a doll. And we talked a lot about joke structure through, so. And, like, the way, you know, songs work within a show is. Is really distinct, but they move the story forward. And I think really great jokes tend to move a story forward. So I'm a really big believer if they're good.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. There was a time Jerome Kern, Showboat, where the songs would stop the show and comment on what was happening. And then I guess Rodgers and Hammerstein with Oklahoma.

[Alex Edelman]

Is that true? I didn't know.

[Mike Pesca]

From what I understand, he. They. There are some of those. Poor Judd is dead. But there are other ones, like the auction, which is just drama as presented through song. And if there's no step back, it's an amazing.

[Alex Edelman]

Those are really, really good. And so jokes should do the same thing. If, like, if you're really, really looking for ambition here, your joke should advance something about you. A complicated thought, a love of weirdness and aesthetic. I've got this new joke I've been doing about the Make a Wish foundation, about how weird it is that it exists and how beautiful a thing it is. Like, it is so. Which is like, they grant wishes for children who are very ill, which is Great. It's just such a. Odd. It's a very odd thing to happen. And the number one wish, the number one granter of children's wishes is John Cena. Yes. I'm just like, how big is John Cena with this demographic of kids? And, like. And don't you even think that even, like, don't you think even John Cena's kids would be, like, the Rock?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Don't you think the second best wrestler is really pissed off and wants to get in good?

[Alex Edelman]

Like, I love John Cena. He's not, like, the greatest living wrestler the Rock is. And then I have a line in there. I go, nothing beats a rock except for paper. But, like. But the end of it is. I go, if it was, they always send two guys in to a room for the Make a Wish Foundation. And so what I. What I always end the joke with is, I go, if it was me when they walked in, they'd be like, are there any celebrities, like, to meet? I'm like, no. And they're like, well, you have a wish. And I'm like, you two kiss. And they're like, what? And I'm like, you two kiss? And they're like, I mean, you can meet, like, anyone except for Taylor Swift. She has a really healthy sense of boundaries. But, like, you mean, like, anyone? And I'm like, I'm collecting moments, not people like you do. And then one guy's like, we're both in relationships. And I'm like, it's my last wish. And the other guy's like, I guess it couldn't hurt. And he's like, rory. And the other guy's like, what? So it's. It's the idea that you would take a joke about the Mega Wish foundation and turn into two guys and a kid who's dying, making them kiss. There's something, like, really specific about that. But, like, all of the best jokes have that really unique specificity baked in. And I also think that, like, you know, I had a sort of experience with death in 2023. My. My best. My. My. The director on my show, my solo show that got all those nice plaudits, and probably my closest friend, this guy Adam, died. And so I've noticed a lot of my jokes now are about sort of like, people who are dying. People are running out of time. People who are. And it's really silly, but when I write them all down on index cards and look at them, I'm like, oh, man. There are a lot of jokes here that are focused on, like, Death and.

[Mike Pesca]

Dying and, like, did you start doing that? The. Writing them down as. Because the. As a means to get insight or for some other reason.

[Alex Edelman]

Well, I noticed Birbiglia does it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And he consulted on your show, too.

[Alex Edelman]

I mean, he's. He produced it. But to even say produced is like, God, I'm overdue to see Mike Rebegli. I haven't seen him in a couple of months. But, like, there is no person besides Adam Brace and Alex Timbers who directed the special.

[Mike Pesca]

And Adam was your friend who died at the age of 43.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah, yeah. Besides Adam and Alex, no one's had a bigger impact on me these last couple years than Mike Birviglia, who is like, who's so good at this art form that it might even be a problem for him. It's like one of those things where, like, people don't measure. Like, Michael Phelps was such. Or Katie Ledecky. These dominant swimmers are so dominant at the specific thing that they do that, like, they. They are now competing against themselves to impress people. Or.

[Mike Pesca]

I was thinking more like a Brian Eno. Some great, brilliant musicians.

[Alex Edelman]

Oh, I love Brian Eno as an.

[Mike Pesca]

Example, who gets pulled out to be a producer on everything. And then maybe Brian Eno's like, wants to be in a band at some point. Uber producer who understands music from this level.

[Alex Edelman]

But, you know, it's really weird because, like, it is actually. That is a absolutely amazing analogy to be like, I got Brian Eno to produce my album, or I was lucky enough to have Brian Eno produce my album. But the truth is, like, no one that Mike is produced, like, you could argue that that Coldplay has more to offer than Brian Eno does. But at least in terms of their, like, broadness of scope and, you know, ambition of scope and things like that. But the truth is, Mike Birbiglia has. You know, I don't think I've got more to offer the world than Mike Birbiglia, but it is really interesting because if you look at the Five.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[Alex Edelman]

If you look at the five, you're.

[Mike Pesca]

Wrong, by the way. Both you guys are great and should exist.

[Alex Edelman]

That's really. That's really nice. But, like, if you look at the nominees for best, you know, for best writing in the category this year, one of them is Mike Birbiglia. And then there's me, whose show he produced. Jacqueline Novak, whose show I produced.

[Mike Pesca]

Was that a show or what?

[Alex Edelman]

It was fantastic.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, my God.

[Alex Edelman]

And like, you know, and John early, who you know, is whose show he didn't produce, but who directed the Jacqueline Novak show that Mike produced. And, you know, Jimmy Kimmel's Oscar writing.

[Mike Pesca]

Team, which is 45 people.

[Alex Edelman]

Which is 45 people. But a lot of them are brilliant. A lot of them are standups. And Jimmy and Mike are, like, really close. And I would say are influenced, like, a little bit influences on how, you know, each of them relate. I see a little bit of Jimmy Kimmel in the interview style that Mike has on his podcast. And it's just like, it's really interesting that this one sphere that Mike Birbiglia essentially presides over has had this, like, you know, essential influence. I have influences from many other places. Maria Bamford, Brian Regan, you know, Moms Mabley.

[Mike Pesca]

Really.

[Alex Edelman]

Bill Cosby before he died. Right. Before bill Cosby died 20 years ago, he's. Rest in peace. Bill Cosby killed and killed in 2002. Before.

[Mike Pesca]

Just ask yourself, post Cosby show, there was so much more there for him to have tapped into, and he never got to.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah. So struck down before his time. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

I guess we'll never buckle as well. Both two of the greats.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Who died too far, too young.

[Alex Edelman]

What a monster. It's so interesting. He's such a. Well, God, we don't have to talk about this, but, like, by the way, like, when. It is really strange, because when I was younger, I was so influenced by that laid back storytelling style. And then I went to see him after the allegations came out. I saw his last show in New York. It was at Carnegie hall, and some of the allegations that come out, and it was just ruined. Yeah, it's, like, bad. No. You know, it's like, hanging over it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

But, you know, and by the way, he's in a class by himself in terms of, like, ruined comedians, but, like.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, I meant solitary confinement. He actually got out.

[Alex Edelman]

He's out. The cause is loose.

[Mike Pesca]

The. The justice system working.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah, we were just talking about that. But it's not. It's not this. But I mean, like, don't be controversial here. I'm not a. I'm not crazy about. Let's not get into this.

[Mike Pesca]

If you want to dig down on his appeal, there's a case that there should.

[Alex Edelman]

Anyway, here's a Team Cosby over here.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm just saying, the prosecutor offered a deal.

[Alex Edelman]

Snip, snip, snip. Sorry. Go ahead.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay. So you've raised a number of things I want to ask you.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah, please, please.

[Mike Pesca]

One is. So we were talking about first placement in the show, second placement, we were talking about your friend Alex and your Adam. Yep, sorry. We're talking about your friend Adam and the Broadway show, it would seem to me. But tell me if I'm right. What you want is, in a comedy set to wring the most laughs out of it and also, you know, have a cohesive point. With the Broadway show, you definitely have to get the most laughs. But to me, it's a structure thing. It's so very much about structure that makes it a show. Am I right about that?

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah. But also, like, truth is, I think we're in different arms races now. Like. Like, comedy, like, jokes have to come first, but then there's narrative satisfaction, like how satisfied people are by the story that's being told. And the truth is, people are going to always laugh in jokes, laugh harder at jokes that come out of character that they recognize. Like.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, like, this is why Cheers is one of the most beloved shows of all time.

[Alex Edelman]

Well, people know the character like Frasier is. But Frasier is a. Frasier is probably a new, clearer example. Right? Like, my favorite joke in Frasier is he's. He's at. Niles is at a ball. The really uptight David Hyde Pierce character is at a baseball game, and he's got a Walkman, a radio Walkman. He's listening on his headphones at the ball game, and a sports fan next to him leans over and says, what's the score? And he goes, west side Story. And the joke is so funny because you know that character so well, and he's acting in. In, like, a certain way. So anyway, in doing the Broadway show, creating a story and then putting jokes in that reflect on the characters within the story, whether it be me, who's the guy at the center of it, or the neo Nazis that are in. Oh, the show is about me going to this meeting of, like, white nationalists in Queens. And so, like, jokes that are based in narrative satisfaction give you a feeling of, like, wholeness, of, like, fulsomeness, but they also give you much. A much higher quality of laugh that really sticks with you. So, like, the truth is, there are different types of laughter. There are many. There are, like, just. There are different types of silence and in different types of, you know, and different types of focus. And so, like, different types of love.

[Mike Pesca]

I mean, well, the Greeks had many different. I was like.

[Alex Edelman]

I was like, which gross. Which gross love is this gonna go? Yes, but the love of two makers. Yeah, but there's Eros and logos and, like, all these different types of all these different types of things that are really, really complicated things to take into account. Once you have sat with your show for years, you start wondering not just about the laughs that you're getting, but how can you juice those laughs? By giving a bit of information early on. Like, I recently went to see Just for Us. Like someone's doing Just for Us.

[Mike Pesca]

Get the fuck out.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah. Minnesota. There was this guy.

[Mike Pesca]

You have approval over who's cast?

[Alex Edelman]

Yep. Well, I don't have approval over who's cast. I can approve the theater company that does it.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Alex Edelman]

So I said yes to this guy doing it in Minnesota.

[Mike Pesca]

And people are a Lutheran woman, too.

[Alex Edelman]

I actually said that they don't need to be Jewish.

[Mike Pesca]

That's a good call.

[Alex Edelman]

I don't think they need to be Jewish, but that's a whole different thing. I think that interrogation of Judaism can. I think I said I want to see a woman of color do the show. Like, I'd really love to see, like, Cynthia Erivo or there's someone like that. Do it. Cynthia is like a good friend of mine. I want to see her. Like, I don't think she. She would because she's busy being a huge, talented star, but it would be sick. But I went to go see this guy who's an actor, not a comedian, do the show. And by the way, he was doing a script from 2021. So some of the jokes in there were the same, but I hadn't buttressed the characters on the front end. So I was like, my God, I just wish I could. Wish the writing of this were better because someone. It might be. Rebiglia says there are invisible pillars that you put early on in the show. So different jokes in the show work better later.

[Mike Pesca]

He gets that from Ira Glass and his idea of signposts in this American lifestyle.

[Alex Edelman]

That's very possible.

[Mike Pesca]

Those guys are very good friends.

[Alex Edelman]

Ira's got a really. But by the way, Ira's a huge influence on the way that I tell stories.

[Rubrik AI Agent Announcer]

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[Mike Pesca]

You've been on this American Life?

[Alex Edelman]

Oh, yeah. I mean, like, it's. It is the. And by the way, being in this American life is the most, like, special thing. It's fucking coolest thing in the world. But, like, how many times.

[Mike Pesca]

How many times were you on?

[Alex Edelman]

I think I've been on. I can't remember if I've only been on once or if I've been on twice.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I've been on three times.

[Alex Edelman]

Been on three times.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm just being.

[Alex Edelman]

I don't know, but I just did.

[Mike Pesca]

It to be a dick?

[Alex Edelman]

No, no. I mean, like, I literally just did.

[Mike Pesca]

It to be a dick.

[Alex Edelman]

Well, I'm glad it's made you into the global superstar that David Sedaris is.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes, but Sedaris does. But then I could spend my time cleaning up garbage in the English countryside.

[Alex Edelman]

Really establishes his character really early. So you laugh so much. The stuff that he does, like Niles just.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Alex Edelman]

So he's so, like, setting that. Doing that invisible character work is huge. And you can do that in a big, long set. But I try to do that in short sets, too. Like, I, like. I'll try to, like, softly call back to things that happen and, you know, like what I like. There's a phrase that I love recently where I'm like, if I say something really boring, I'll go, like, not to brag.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Alex Edelman]

And so if I do it multiple times in a set, I'll be like, sorry about all the bragging. And you don't have to make a big deal out of it because it's not really a bit. But it's a joke on the way to the joke. You can do it a bunch. And I don't know what it is, but it's just, like, really appealing that, like, create a sense of, like, oh, who's this weirdo on stage? Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And when you do it, you gesture, like, towards the audience. It's very inviting. Not to brag.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah, sorry. To brag. What was. One was about taking a flight from Burbank to Seattle, and the other was about taking a crosstown bus. Not to brag. I'm like, sorry. Or going to Graceland. Yeah, yeah, sorry. Not to brag. You know, because it's the King's house.

[Mike Pesca]

And we'll be back more with Alex Edelman right after this.

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[Mike Pesca]

We're back with Alex Edelman. I do want to ask you. This relates to. Just for us. You have adhd? Yes.

[Alex Edelman]

What? Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I have. I have adhd.

[Mike Pesca]

So I think that. I know you have a very fast mind, and sometimes your mind goes a little quicker than the audience. But also, you might not know if the audience is with you. And some of the audience might not be with you. And this shows up in a couple of jokes, like when you talk about. Is it Prince William's coke habit?

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

The Queen.

[Alex Edelman]

Prince Harry's coke habit.

[Mike Pesca]

Prince Harry's coke.

[Alex Edelman]

Sorry, besmirched the good name of Prince William.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. Because he doing good.

[Alex Edelman]

As opposed to the. To the powder addicted lush of the younger brother. Right.

[Mike Pesca]

Opposed to the giant Bolivian nose candy fiend Harry. But you say you have to realize his. His grandmother's on the currency.

[Alex Edelman]

Real quick. I have a connection to Prince Harry, which is that my friend Jack once did cocaine with him in a London nightclub bathroom. All right, that's a knock at the reaction action that I wanted from you. I will sidebar for this. Prince Harry had a cocaine problem. It's the best thing. We don't talk about it enough as a culture.

[Mike Pesca]

It's in the new book.

[Alex Edelman]

It's fantastic.

[Mike Pesca]

I don't approve of cocaine, but I.

[Alex Edelman]

Love that Prince Harry had a cocaine problem. Because in America, we forget this, but in England, the Queen is on all of the money. So that means at some point, Prince Harry rolls him a picture of his grandmother to do drugs that he bought with other pictures of his grandmother. That will never happen to any of you. None of you can walk into Times Square after this. And the drug dealer's like, excuse me, that'll be $300. And you're like, excuse me, here's a picture of my grandma at her 50th Jubilee parade. He's like, what?

[Mike Pesca]

Like, here's a picture of my grandma with Winston Churchill.

[Alex Edelman]

And he's like, how'd you get this? You know, like, here's a picture of my grandma planning the death of my mom.

[Mike Pesca]

Now, some of the audience gets it and some of the audience does it.

[Alex Edelman]

Those are great. And then you.

[Mike Pesca]

And then there's another joke like that that you do now about the Holocaust survivors and your mother's family.

[Alex Edelman]

And that's like a less than a week old, though. So I don't really know it yet.

[Mike Pesca]

But the only reason I bring it up, it's the same thing where you say, she's 59, and sometimes the audience laughs immediately, like, that's too young for a Holocaust survivor, and sometime they need to be led there. And so my question for you is, is that one of the things when you go in front of an audience, you don't know when they're going to get the joke. And then you have to make a decision about how much to fill.

[Alex Edelman]

Then sometimes I can't backfill sometimes the step is too big for an audience. Sometimes it doesn't work. Like. Or sometimes they get it and they're like, all right, keep building.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And you need the audience to tell you that.

[Alex Edelman]

My. Every comedian. I believe this. Every someone who's overexposed to comedy by doing it or watching so much of it as you wait to go do it yourself. Comedians brains work different from audience brains, and critics brains work different from audience and comedians brains, but slightly so comedians and critics are closer together. Awards brains work different from audience brains. And the truth is, I do think that I've always written, tried to write for all four audiences. I try to write for audience members, peers, critics, and folks who look at things in a really jeweler's loop way and measure them against other stuff, because why not? And also, I'm insecure, and I want everyone to think a joke has merit. But sometimes a joke only works with one or two of those constituencies. And there's a fifth constituency, which is me.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

Which is, what do I find to be funny? And if I. There are some jokes, and some of them are unjust for us, to be fair, I know there's funny, like, still unjust for us after years. I know there's something funny there, but I haven't quite figured out a way to translate it or like, you know how, like, a big part of getting maple syrup out of a tree is like driving a spigot in. In the right place. Like, I've never been able to, like, drive a spigot into the joke in the right place and, like, get that sweet, sweet laugh out.

[Mike Pesca]

But it's there when we see it on hbo. We'll see.

[Alex Edelman]

Exactly. Maybe. But, like, there are some things. But, like, you also have to trust that, like, eventually you can make one brain into another. Right. Like, you can make. You can invite an audience member to be a critic or a critic to be an audience member or a comedian to. I don't know. Actually, I don't know how much a comedian's brain changes. And I think it has to do with the time you're watching a thing. And by the way, the reason I write for, I say awards, but people who judge things against other things because it's a good way to look after the evergreenness of. It's a good way to look after the evergreenness of your offering. It's a good way to think about whether or not your show is gonna be considered good in two years, three years. And you want shows to withstand the test of time in case you Ever revisit them or in case not all shows do. My first solo show, I don't think stands up that well. It changed my life in a really significant way. I did a show called Millennial. I spent the last year writing on television shows. At the end of this television show, I checked my bank balance and I had $5,421 in my bank account. And this is how little I know about being an adult. I saw the bank balance on the ATM screen, and I thought to myself, with no irony, I should buy a house. Not a big house, one of those small $5,000 houses. How is any Millennial ever gonna buy a home? How is any young person ever gonna own a home? It's maybe hate old people. I see a few of you in here tonight. I hate you. Cause every old person in a cool city like this, or New York or LA or Boston or Seattle are the same. Every old person's like, my house is worth a million dollars, but when I bought it in 1968, I paid 11 raspberries for it. And every young person's like, I have nine roommates. One of them's a raccoon with rabies. We'd love to get him out, but his name is on the lead. And every old person's like, I'm a librarian with a lake house.

[Mike Pesca]

Up yours.

[Alex Edelman]

And then my second show is called Everything Handed to youo. And that show stands up pretty well. And I think just for us, I don't. I don't know how it will stand up in five years, but I think, okay, because we tried to take stuff out that would date it, but, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

This is exactly one thing I was thinking of, because as you were telling jokes about, you have brothers Israeli, and your family's Jewish. And as you were telling jokes around the Gaza, Israel conflict, I could tell that the audience, beyond not being ready to go there, doesn't even know to laugh, where to laugh. So you were doing jokes about certain reactions to it, but it seems just about. And I want to bring it back to Just for Us, but it seems just about the hardest topic that I could think of in comedy. Like, I'm a 9 after 9, 11, supposedly. You couldn't make jokes about whatever, but no one was making jokes about America having deserved it for real.

[Alex Edelman]

Right?

[Mike Pesca]

You could make jokes about certain phrases like, this is why the terrorists hate us. There's a great, great bit there. You can make jokes about American overreach, but at least in America, since we weren't playing comedians, weren't playing shows for Kandahar audiences, at least in America, everyone's more or less on the same side. And with the Gaza conflict, it is so hard to figure out exactly where the audience is going to want to.

[Alex Edelman]

There's another problem, too, which is there's not a lot of comedy in being right.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

There's not a lot of comedy in being bang on, as, like, British people say. And the truth is, to be wrong feels immoral, even if you're pro Israel. To be wrong in, you know, the other respect feels immoral. And if you're pro Palestinian, you know, I would go out on a limb here, given that they've suffered many, many, many, many, much, much, much more loss and for a much longer period, even though the hostages are, you know, indeed a really.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Alex Edelman]

The sustained wound, it feels immoral to be making jokes in the face of it on ongoing conflict that ranges in opinion from humanitarian crisis to outright genocide. Right. So people are. I'm not. I'm not labeling either of those things. Things I'm saying that's how people feel.

[Mike Pesca]

And so we're being descriptive, not normative.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah. In a way that. By the way, part of that is preservation, but also part of that is, like, there have been moments in this conflict where I'm like, okay, this is a humanitarian crisis. And there are moments in this conflict where I go, maybe it's a genocide. Like, it's truly, in my opinion, wavers based on the information that I'm fed and based on the things that I've seen. And it's impossible to get an impartial media diet, and I don't know who to listen to. And I think it's the trickiest topic you could possibly take on.

[Mike Pesca]

I think so, too.

[Alex Edelman]

But in that doubt, that's where there's comedy in not being sure. That's where there's comedy in not being able to talk about it. That's where there's comedy. And to be like. Like, there's a joke that I'm working on now that I've never, like, discussed before because it's still like, sort of under, like, but it's about a. A person who is black, Jewish and trans who's, you know, arrested for putting up pro Hamas posters. And I talk about that. But, like, I also try to be like, well, what's the other side of that? So there, so there's that. There's a joke about that, but then there's a joke then, like, okay, what's the other perspective on it? And the truth is, I think Most people. I'm answering your question, I promise. I think most people actually think that things aren't like, black and white and like the right thing to the right opinion on the opinion that someone might have about one of these, like, queers for Palestine people is that they would not be welcome in Gaza. They would be, you know, in harm's way for many different reasons. And the thing that I think is, like, interesting about that is that these people know that. And so the idea that they're naive about that is probably not real. And in that there's great fodder for a joke.

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[Alex Edelman]

Because that's something that most people would recognize but isn't acknowledged. And something that's recognized but isn't acknowledged is great. Like Just For Us is about the Jewish relationship to whiteness being more complex than what you would see in the media. Because on one hand, I'm white enough to get into that room of white nationalists, but not white enough to be considered white by any of the people in that room. So that paradox is like a really great way to. So like the paradox. I'm putting this together in real time. So I'm sorry if it's like a little messy because I've never talked about this joke, but the paradox of someone who is a queer for Palestine and you know, in air quotes, sticking up for Palestinians and that person having some bravery.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. This is a word you use in the joke.

[Alex Edelman]

In the joke, like that is like, there is comedy in that paradox. And the truth is this is stuff we want to talk about. Like in some ways, in the days after 9 11, how could you go on stage and talk about your shoe size or chicken restaurants or those bars that were popping up around the turn of the century where it was cold on the inside and you would go in and sit there in a coat and drink a cold martini? Like those things existed, but they all existed then in relation to 9 11.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Alex Edelman]

And so if I'm a Jew, grappling with the situation in the Middle east, wondering if, like, the Israel I grew up with is, you know, means something different now, wondering if the relationship that my family and my friends, you know, have to it is splintering, like, how can I talk about anything else besides, like this big current thing that's filling my aperture?

[Mike Pesca]

But do you think just for us, it will stand the test of time and be performed by different regional theater groups and maybe a black woman at some day? Because it's quality. But do you think it's conception and questioning of anti Semitism is a Bit of a time capsule in that it took place before October 7th. And I don't even know if the word Zionism appears in the show at all.

[Alex Edelman]

I mean, it does one time as a sort of sarcastic remark, and I decided not to change it after October 7th because also, words and context change all the time. Who knows? God forbid somebody, you know, you do a joke about Casamigos Tequila, and then somebody walks into an alcohol, you know, an alcohol shop in Tulsa holding a machine gun, steals five bottles of Casamigos and, you know, you know, kills everybody in the shop, and there's a Casamigos killer. And now you're holding the bag on camera for alcohol. I'm not besmirching the good name of Casamigos Tequilas.

[Mike Pesca]

And we should thank our sponsor, Don Julio, as always.

[Alex Edelman]

And I. I love. I love all the founders of Casamigos. They're fantastic. I think Clooney's one of them. So, like, I mean, don't want to.

[Mike Pesca]

Get wrong with Clooney.

[Alex Edelman]

I don't want to get. Yeah, I'm just saying that, like, not like Prince Harry, who we thrown under the bus multiple times on this podcast. But the point is, words and cultural context shift all the time, and it's up to the person performing it in that moment to, I, here's my hard and fast rule for this, which is a. A show and a joke should be conversant with the moment that it's in and not beholden to it. So, right. Like, you know, people after October 7th were like, you should address, you know, the situation in Israel or the situation in Gaza. And they were doing it from different perspectives. Like, certain people called me and were like, you need to stand up for Israel right now in your show. And there are people call me like, you need to speak out about what's happening to the Palestinians. And I was like, that's not the show. But I put a line in at the beginning that didn't make it into the special. But I really love the line. I said, you know, I come out go, hi. Thanks so much for coming. One quick thing before we start. I said, this show is about. There's a bit in the show about Jewish identity and a bit about antisemitism, a bit about Israel, and I want it. And to that, I just want to say, when I was in high school, I saw John Updike give a talk. He's like a novelist. So John Updike gave a talk, and I know you know who John Updike is. It's for the Listenership.

[Mike Pesca]

You saw John, they're not that bright. Thank you.

[Alex Edelman]

I said, john, John Updike, give a talk. And Updike said that if you're lucky enough at some point in your life, the work that you create might find itself conversant with the times in which you live. And then it would pause and go, well, call me Mr. Lucky.

[Mike Pesca]

That's great.

[Alex Edelman]

And it just let you know that I knew what was going on, that these things are relevant. And that part of it. I think the thing that people underestimate is part of the work of a comedy show or a comedian is to put something out there for an audience to examine themselves and converse with themselves. Like to go, here is a little nugget of how people are talking about Israel and Palestine. Discuss amongst yourself, here is a thing, here's a thing that I've observed. It's not a thing that I necessarily believe to the exclusion of other things. The hardest part in terms of talking about Israel and Palestine that I have found is that it's impossible to address. It's gone for so long and has been discussed so much. The context is all knotted together. So you can't talk about, you can't talk about the situation in Gaza without considering everything that's come before it, right? And that's pretty hard to do in a joke. And you can't talk about, you know, college students protesting like the situation in Gaza without the discussion of how Americans view things through a post colonialist lens. Again, hard thing to talk about in a joke, not just because of the topic matter, but because of the way you do. A joke doesn't always like, you know, if you only saw one bit of the joke about the kid protesting in Pal, you know, protesting on behalf of the Palestinians, you'd be like, well, that's offensive from a, a pro Palestinian lens. But if you didn't, if you only saw the second half of the joke about how that kid is brave, you'd be like, well, that joke is offensive from pro Israel lens, right? And so like.

[Mike Pesca]

And also, not every joke has to be equal Lee balance. You could even have one joke. Or do you think it does?

[Alex Edelman]

I think, I think that jokes, I think jokes that ask questions and pose questions are better than jokes that propose answers.

[Mike Pesca]

And you think those jokes, those questions should be fair. I think you can't, you can't put your finger on it.

[Alex Edelman]

I think it's hard for me personally not to wonder about the paradox of somebody protesting on behalf of a trans, Jewish, black person protesting on behalf of Palestinians without considering the risk to that person.

[Mike Pesca]

So you're engaging a very ethical project here. Does that hold you back?

[Alex Edelman]

Yes and no. In the sense one, if you can. If you can walk that tightrope for a long time, then you have something really interesting. On the other hand, it's really hard to walk that tightrope. I was going to do a show about Israel and Palestine long before October 7th and talked about it as my next project for the three and a half years. Just For Us existed before that, but it's much harder now. Also, I want people to enjoy themselves. Like, I'm not out there to fuck with people. Like, I don't want to. I don't want. People are going to get a babysitter. They should have fun.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Are you ready to get bummed out by the geopolitical musings of Alex Adelson?

[Alex Edelman]

But the truth is, like, you know, Adam, before he died, was a really big fan of this quote that he attributed to the coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Bruce Arian.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Alex Edelman]

Which is no risk. It. No biscuit. So, like, you gotta go out there and like, bomb on a Tuesday or bomb on a Wednesday, wherever you saw me in front of a dead audience to, like, get at something. Because, by the way, if a joke works in that room, then that joke is working anywhere else.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

And like, one or two jokes worked in that room last night. I was like, okay, those jokes are keepers. I say one or two jokes in the span of 15 minutes. Not exactly a great batting average, but that. But, like, your swings are pretty good. So, yeah, it holds you back. And also the truth is, my opinion changes. My opinion about Israel is different than it was on October 7, 2023, in my opinion, about the ways people speak about Israel is different than how it was, you know, when we. When we last spoke. And also, I find huge bad faith discourse that's influenced by how people feel about Kamala Harris or Donald Trump or, you know, their own position within, you know, within anything. So, like, it's. It's tough.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And to paraphrase what Bruce Arians was saying, there's this other saying, you miss every shot you don't take. And that was, of course said by Yahassin Moore.

[Alex Edelman]

Yeah. God.

[Mike Pesca]

Cut, cut, cut.

[Alex Edelman]

No, no, no. Like these. Also, here's the other thing.

[Mike Pesca]

Wait, I could. I could change it to the IDF to make it balance.

[Alex Edelman]

Sure, sure.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm not digging myself, but, you know.

[Alex Edelman]

But the truth is these jokes are like the other thing that's tough from a craft perspective on Israel and Palestine. There aren't that many words you feel like comfortable laughing at. Thing the reason Nazis are so great to laugh at is you can laugh at almost like it's so far in the past. Also people have a little more. And by the way, there's a perception now doing jokes about Israel Palestine is easier now than it was three months ago. Which actually troubles me a little bit because it's still like, you know, it's still like a problem that's in our face. But yeah, a lot of like.

[Mike Pesca]

And a crazy ass plan for Gaza resettlement. I don't even know if that helps a comedian.

[Alex Edelman]

There's so stupid. I mean, but by the way that actually the more things that happen besides like, you know, my actual opinion on Israel and Palestine changes a lot. But I'm broadly in the camp of there's gotta be a way to figure this out without innocent people getting killed. There has to be a way in the 21st century for us to figure this out without teenagers getting taken hostage and Moabs being dropped on toddlers. Like I don't think that's. And by the way, I think almost all reasonable people believe that.

[Mike Pesca]

That.

[Alex Edelman]

And if you, if you, if you don't believe it, I think you are largely traumatized by having skin in the game, which I respect.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

Or are arguing in bad faith, which I don't.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Alex Edelman]

And so like, you know, my opinion roughly like centers on that. But I do think there's lots of like, there's lots of reasonablenesses in those, you know, in those like vicissitudes.

[Mike Pesca]

Well Alex, let me tell you a. I enjoy talking to you too you today. But I enjoyed watching you last night and obviously after the second show where you killed and the crowd went wild, it's easy for me to say, oh, I love Alex Edelman. After the first show I turned to my wife and said that guy is talking about everything I'm thinking about. So maybe it was me congratulating myself liking what you called the worst set in 50 years. But this is why, this is why I think so highly of you.

[Alex Edelman]

This is a like this club. It's a credit to. I think this club has. Look, think about the last thing I'll. Obviously we're winding down but like comedy institutions, they don't, like a ton of them don't really exist anymore. Like you know, not a ton of us worked comic strip which was been around a real long time. And, and Caroline's is closed and Caroline herself is still around, which is amazing. But like you know, the comedy seller, I think because of its like, like, commitment to, like, progress and like. Because. No, I'm kind of as a lodestar, which, by the way, I don't always agree with. Yeah, like, this place per. This place makes it like. This place is an environment where you actually can go and like, talk about all this shit and like, you can. You're expected to entertain people, but like. But also like, do something with your time on stage. It's like pretty good litmus test for, you know, comics are doing stuff other than like, just talking about, like, like Cunningus. Not that there aren't great, like, Cunningus comedians. I can think of two. But like, like, yeah, I. I think that there's like a real. There's a. There's a lot of really great stuff at this club and so makes it all possible.

[Mike Pesca]

Thanks, Alex.

[Alex Edelman]

Thanks, bud.

[Mike Pesca]

The Gist is produced by Cory Wara. We had help today from Leah Yan. Kathleen Sykes helps me with the Gist list. Jeff Craig does so much with the video and the socials and the visual. He's a master of the visual in this a primarily audio form. Michel Pesca also works with the visuals, but is mostly the visionary improve. And thanks for listening.