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I truly believe martial law is justified and acceptable, no matter how much I think about it. It's all because of the fake news, the spread of false information, and the manipulation of public opinion that is pushing this country towards left wing ideologies. And we can't sleep because obviously South.

Mike Peska (4:52)

Korea is a far different country from our own and it's basically impossible to map our domestic debates onto theirs. Just impossible. The South Koreans remain at something of a standoff. It is being closely monitored, at least according to statements put forward by Anthony Blinken and Kurt Campbell, who is of course the Deputy Secretary of State on the show today, an autocrat in the news and a song in my heart. But first, Ophara Eisenberg is the host of the Parenting Is a Joke podcast. We worked for many years near each other as we hosted shows on National Public Radio. Hers was Ask Me Another and now she is here to talk about parenting and podcasting and stand up the delightful Ophira Eisenberg. Up next.

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Mike Peska (6:52)

I've known Ofira Eisenberg for a long time and liked her for almost all of that time. No, I joke. I've liked her for the entirety of the time. The standup comic and former host of the NPR show Ask Me Another is now out with a new parenting podcast. So, okay, let's brainstorm the title. She's a comedian talking about parenting. Couple ways we could go. She went with parenting as a joke. Hello, Ophura. But is it, Is it really?

Ophira Eisenberg (7:19)

You know, I wanted, I posed all these titles to people because I was trying to figure out. It's hard. It's. I find it very hard to title things. So, so I was just putting brainstorming and I wanted to call it, you know, like, My Life is Over. I wanted to call it Everything I Love Has Been Broken. Like a lot of things like that. And I was so surprised that people just came back. They were like, negative, dark would turn me off. I was like, what?

Mike Peska (7:46)

Yeah, I think part of the complaint of parenting is, well, there goes my youth. There goes the fun I used to have. But now that people are becoming parents a little older, get over yourself. You weren't that much fun. Maybe 15 years ago you were fun. But from the point of like pre parenting to parenting, it's not that big a drop off for most of us. I find.

Ophira Eisenberg (8:05)

Also, you know, like, I love hanging at a bar. I am a bar person, always have been. And I did find the moment and it was right before I got pregnant where I was like, it is starting to be not so cute for me to be at a bar at midnight, starting to just cross that corner where people are like what happened to you?

Mike Peska (8:22)

Yeah. And then you get pregnant and society conspires to really look down on you. If you're, if you're at a bar but then you have a kid and they let the kids in the bars. Maybe not at 11, but they're like. Kids in bars are not an unusual thing though these days.

Ophira Eisenberg (8:38)

Well, if you go to the, if you're in Britain, if you're in any of the pubs, that's like a family environment. So part of me is like, maybe we should adopt it. The only difference is that in America we hate the people that brought their children to the bar. They are despised by everyone working there, by everyone else without children. You're ruining my vibe.

Mike Peska (8:59)

But as more of us become parents, I used to go to this beer hall and they had air hockey and they had papa shot and it just. I guess you're trying to tell me this is for adults. And at five o'clock they, at six, no more kids could be there. But before six there was nothing adult about it except they had a Dunkle vice on tap.

Ophira Eisenberg (9:22)

Well, okay, so get this. My, my husband is now working for a company that specializes in games and their key audience. I've just never heard this word before, but I guess I'm behind is cadults.

Mike Peska (9:33)

Oh my God.

Ophira Eisenberg (9:35)

Cadalts.

Mike Peska (9:36)

Pre cadavers. I think we're all cadults. My, my son Emmett, the younger one who. I've talked about him to you. He does stand up comedy. And in his last. I'm just remembering this, in his last show, I think I might have stole, at least stolen his idea. He talked about wanting to go to Dave and Buster's not being allowed in because it was now a bar. And he's like, really? So all you adults are playing Connect 4 by throwing a basketball through a hoop and whacking a mole. That's what the adults are doing. And then, and then he has this other observation which is when he asks why can't I come in? And they say, because there's drinking here. He, he said, I've got an idea. How about just not letting me drink? Let me tell you who does this. Airlines do this. Every venue does this. Broadway theaters do this. Everyone else on the planet just doesn't let me drink. You can't be trusted.

Ophira Eisenberg (10:34)

Busters, they're like, have you seen the people that work here? They cannot be trusted.

Mike Peska (10:39)

And then, well, let's workshop this. So then I guess he wanted to do. What would be the term, a reversal or where you take the an Inverse, Right. So here was the joke about adults preventing kids from doing an adult thing, right? So he then said, I don't know if this really got there, but he wanted to do a bit about, you know, to tag on to his main bit about how therefore no adults should be allowed to do estate planning, because he figured that that was like, the most adult thing, so only kids, only, like 12 and under would be able to do estate planning. But I don't know if that part works.

Ophira Eisenberg (11:17)

Interesting. I went a different way in my mind. I went to. Because this happened to me, water slides. Because I love water slides. But they. I went to one with my son and they. They looked at me and they were like, no go. And I was like, but I want to go down the side. They were like, no, this is for kids only. And I was literally like, where's the adult water slides?

Mike Peska (11:38)

God damn it. I have to. My advice to you, Ophir, is don't go chasing water slides. That would be what I would say.

Ophira Eisenberg (11:46)

If my son was in charge of estate planning. I mean, that would be great. I'd be like, well, you just screwed yourself out of. Because he would be like, I want the big stuffed tiger.

Mike Peska (11:58)

That's right. He'd be, yeah. His priorities might not coalesce with, you know, what society values. So tell me about your parenting journey, or is there a worse question on earth? How did you decide to do it?

Ophira Eisenberg (12:12)

Yeah, the journey. So my parenting journey is one. I mean, I think when I first met you, I was childless. And that was the plan. That was the plan. That was really. That's where things were at. I. Because I picked stand up comedy as something I wanted to do. I'm from a big family. I'm the youngest of six. Everyone in my family procreated like crazy. I felt zero need to add to this already, I think, subpar gene pool. So I was like. And living in New York, the expanse, like, just all of it just. I had made different choices. And then, you know, within hindsight, I have this part of how I think the journey went. I got unexpectedly. I would. I would say no one would expect this. Diagnosed with breast cancer, I had to deal with a couple surgeries, radiation, some other treatment, and it seemed that was a. That was a lot of time. That was just a year, year and a half of my life completely vanished. I mean, I was doing things. I was even performing. And you know what? I loved performing during that time because I felt like when I was on stage, I was someone else. I felt like I could disappear into A fantasy of who I was.

Mike Peska (13:31)

So did you do jokes about it on stage?

Ophira Eisenberg (13:33)

I didn't. I almost told. This is a mistake. In hindsight, I almost told nobody.

Mike Peska (13:38)

Uh huh.

Ophira Eisenberg (13:38)

Like. And I think it was because I was just so messed up about it, I didn't know really how to deal with it myself. And then I didn't want to have to take care of anyone else. And that's me putting a lot of crap.

Mike Peska (13:54)

No, but that happens. Like, oh, I'm so sorry. Now all of a sudden I'm here kind of assuring you in a way that I can't even be assured. Yeah.

Ophira Eisenberg (14:03)

And people are so scared of cancer that, you know, the questions I didn't even. Like, how'd you get it? You know, that's a terrible question to ask anyone, but. And that's usually the person speaking about their own fear.

Mike Peska (14:14)

Right. I started smoking two packs a day. Through my breasts.

Ophira Eisenberg (14:17)

Yeah, exactly. My nipples were alcoholics. So there was, you know, and I was just, I was worried about, I think, a little bit of people seeing me that way, having to take care of them. I hate pity. I hate pity. I hate it. And I just couldn't deal with that. I missed out on a lot of potential people taking care of me and, you know, these things. It does take a lot of people to help you through tough times. And so that was a mistake.

Mike Peska (14:44)

You were married then?

Ophira Eisenberg (14:45)

Yes, I was married, yeah.

Mike Peska (14:46)

So your husband was taking care of husband? Yeah, Very tight, very close group who was very close, told about this.

Ophira Eisenberg (14:53)

And I was in a. I was a disaster. I was a terror. I was a terrible patient. I was a terrible cancer patient. I was a. I'm not the greatest survivor either. I like am not.

Mike Peska (15:04)

But you know, to me that's a cousin of taking care of people. Like just thrust upon you a role of. Now I have to be a quote unquote survivor. And all that means the bravery and the pink ribbons and the.

Ophira Eisenberg (15:17)

Yeah, this is. I mean, I get how the pink ribbons have helped a lot of people because you do need some lightness in this darkness. And to be clear also, Mike, I had a very early stage breast cancer. It was seen as if it was left could develop into something life threatening. But if it was, if it was taken care of where it was, there was a very, very good chance that my life would not be at all threatened. There was chance of recurrence and all this stuff, et cetera. Now I hated the pink ribbon campaign specifically because I felt it silenced so many people, because I felt exactly what you're saying that the requirement was, especially as a woman, hey, you gotta smile. You gotta smile and throw on a pink boa. And you better be like, on a bike, having a good time.

Mike Peska (16:01)

Have you read Barbara Ehrenreich on this?

Ophira Eisenberg (16:03)

Yes.

Mike Peska (16:04)

Yeah, she's great. She's great and insightful, very aligned. And I have never talked to someone who's a breast cancer survivor about that, but I have talked to someone who's not a cancer survivor, a friend of mine who died of cancer, who hated that sort of thing too. Yeah. And there is like a sameness and a quashing of different experiences into exactly what you're saying. The standards of being the right kind of cancer person. Then when you even think about it, like, why the pink ribbons while we're raising money for breast cancer? Like, if we weren't sympathetic, the NIH shouldn't be dedicated money to eradicate breast cancer, which is, you know, a big issue in America and with women. Yeah. So it is very, very annoying. I am with you on that.

Ophira Eisenberg (16:45)

And, you know, depending on where you at are at with it, it can be a symbol that haunts you a little bit because it. I remember Delta Airlines at the time was really into, you know, during breast cancer month, they had a cocktail menu because they were raising money. They had their. Their flight attendants, if they were women, were wearing little pink ribbon earrings. And I remember being on a flight, like right after I finish radiation, try to just give myself a break from everything. And that was the Delta flight I got on. And I was live it, live it.

Mike Peska (17:20)

Another annoying thing about breast cancer, besides.

Ophira Eisenberg (17:23)

The cancer greatest is ever. I love.

Mike Peska (17:27)

Tell me if you resonate with this. And I've never had cancer, but my dad had it like seven times. So maybe. Maybe it hits with me, especially with breast cancer, though. Awareness. The lowest of all goals. To raise awareness. Who is not at this point, not aware of breast cancer. You have to go beyond awareness. Give me some direction with your awareness.

Ophira Eisenberg (17:49)

It's like they hired a marketing company in 1967, and they were like, we're done.

Mike Peska (17:54)

Right.

Ophira Eisenberg (17:54)

Never need to update this.

Mike Peska (17:56)

That's right. Well, you know, people don't like to talk about breast cancer. And then the 70s hit, and then the 80s hit, and we've been way past that for a while.

Ophira Eisenberg (18:03)

Just talk about it all the time. Yeah. So somehow after that, now I was already 40, and then I was 41. But somehow after that, I thought I had this idea of, like, you know, very common idea. I think that happens in your brain if you are dealing with something pretty horrible. And you're rethinking your life, what's ahead, what's behind. And I kept thinking, I just want. What can I squeeze out of this life? What, like, of course, travel, of course, experiences. Of course I want some accomplishments. But I thought, you know what? My brain is changing a little bit. Maybe I do want a kid. Is that even possible? And so I thought I would let it just kind of fly. I just thought I threw it past my husband. He was. We. He had made the same decision I had. And he was a little bit like, what are you talking about? And I was like, well, let's just try. Like, we can't guarantee. And I don't know what the next steps will be if it doesn't work, but if we don't try just because we're scared, I think that would be a real. That is not how I want to live. I've lived too much of my life not doing things because I'm scared. I just got out of something that definitely rocked my ideas of everything and put me full of fear. And I can't operate from fear. So let's just try and we'll see what happens. And I was lucky because for most. For many, many women I know, actually, it doesn't matter what age they are. They. They need a lot of intervention to get pregnant. But somehow I got pregnant.

Mike Peska (19:40)

Well, the famous Eisenberg fecundity results and studies or the six siblings with all the kids.

Ophira Eisenberg (19:47)

Yeah, six siblings with all the kids. I do. I do remember when I was a teenager, my. My older sisters were always kind of like the most. The darkest, most like, foreboding versions of fortune tellers, like, based on their own experience.

Mike Peska (20:01)

They' they were like the weird sisters from macbeth. Yeah.

Ophira Eisenberg (20:07)

And so they. I just remember my sister saying to me, when I was like 16 or something, she was like, we're fertile. They're seizing burgs. We're fertile. Be careful.

Mike Peska (20:18)

So you. Well, we talked about a lot of the forced rhetoric around breast cancer, but what about this verb, try? Do you like that you used it?

Ophira Eisenberg (20:28)

Yeah. You know, because there's no. There's there. I gotta think of a bet. That's a great, great thing that you point out. I gotta find a different word for it because all that means is that you're just having sex.

Mike Peska (20:39)

Yes.

Ophira Eisenberg (20:40)

That is what trying is. Trying. And you're putting. You're making it a job.

Mike Peska (20:46)

Yeah.

Ophira Eisenberg (20:46)

That's why the try is in there. You're like, this is a job. This is not for fun. I don't care what mood you're in, no one's looking sexy here.

Mike Peska (20:54)

Also, most other sexual activities related to jobs are specifically not procreative. So that also complicates thing, if you know what I'm saying. Your job related.

Ophira Eisenberg (21:06)

It should be the other way. Trying should be like, you're going to a doctor, you're getting a shot. You're like, look. No. Oh, that's it.

Mike Peska (21:13)

That's it. We went on a prophylactic vacation. We took. We took a contraceptive holiday. That's it. That should be the phrase.

Ophira Eisenberg (21:22)

That should be the phrase.

Mike Peska (21:23)

Contraceptive holiday.

Ophira Eisenberg (21:25)

Contraceptive holiday. Yeah, we took. It was. It was Christmas. It was contraceptive Christmas every day at Shea Eisenberg for a few months. And honestly I wasn't sure it was going to happen. But then I as it. And just in the spirit of vulnerable and truth, I did get pregnant and I had a miscarriage, which again is common. And I was. That miscarriage was a weird miscarriage. Not weird, but somewhat rare. It was called partial molar. It doesn't mean it. Nothing. It's not based on anything. It's not a particularly age relation, health relation anything. It's just basically, if they, they're able now to do so much with testing and diagnosing of stuff to be able to pinpoint you exactly what it was. And this is where there's just. There's too many to double of one chromosome and another. It would never have created anything. It was never going to be a viable fetus. And so it's. But it's irregular cells, so you have to make sure that there's. That's all gone, that there's none of these irregular cells left in you. So you get a dnc and then also they need to monitor you that they didn't leave a tiny little cell behind because it's in an environment where it will grow like crazy and that will be cancer. So my own pregnancy gave me another cancer scare. And that required going and getting a blood test every week for six months. And that's when I fell apart.

Mike Peska (22:56)

Oh, really?

Ophira Eisenberg (22:58)

But the fact is after that I was like, the only way I see this having a happy ending in my little Ophira life is if we have a child. Like, then I was just dead set on this was my story.

Mike Peska (23:14)

Right? And then you were like, there is no try.

Ophira Eisenberg (23:17)

There is no try.

Mike Peska (23:18)

You're quoting Yoda. Yeah, well.

Ophira Eisenberg (23:21)

And funny you say that because my son's name is Lucas and it's completely related to Star Wars. Oh, that's so cool.

Mike Peska (23:29)

You could have gone with Chewbacca, but I think you made a choice.

Ophira Eisenberg (23:32)

I was second choice if it was a girl.

Mike Peska (23:36)

Wait, Rebecca, No. Chewbacca.

Ophira Eisenberg (23:38)

Rebaka.

Mike Peska (23:39)

Can I just ask you something that occurred to me? Maybe it's not the case, but with the new abortion bans, especially in Florida and Texas, would that dnc, which is an abortion procedure, the one that's medically diagnosed, is that harder to get? Do you know, in these states?

Ophira Eisenberg (23:54)

I don't know, but I don't know. So I'm not going to pretend I have the facts on that, but I was having this conversation with someone else who doesn't have the facts on it. Great. Two people to have a conversation.

Mike Peska (24:04)

Oh, yeah. So I assume you don't know, but give me some hearsay about another person. Oh, she said yes.

Ophira Eisenberg (24:10)

Okay. She's from Texas, and we sort of had the same conversation, and she said, I think so. So there you go. That's the closest we've gotten to an answer. Real good.

Mike Peska (24:20)

So, Lucas, who, you know, should be credited with the middle three films of the Star wars series, for sure. So how does he talk about him? And he's funny and a joy of your life. Has he had any reaction or interaction with the podcast at all? Any opinions on it?

Ophira Eisenberg (24:38)

Yeah, I've recorded him a few times where, you know, there's certain things we're going through, and I thought it would be great to hear your perspective. And so I'd be like, all right, Lucas, give me two minutes on what you think about your finally getting a Nintendo Switch. And he, you know, these kids, as they say, these kids, we're raising them in an environment where they're so used to seeing themselves on camera, seeing themselves reflected on iPads and iPhones for FaceTimes, watching YouTube. He's like a professional out of the gate. Professional takes the phone, talks right into the microphone. Well, you know what I think?

Mike Peska (25:19)

Smash the like button.

Ophira Eisenberg (25:20)

Yeah, he still has a little bit of that. Little kid doesn't know how to end things, you know, so he kind of does that. Okay. That's all. And he's like, fart, fart, poop, poop. You know, a lot of that, you.

Mike Peska (25:31)

Know, so he's got to work on his tags.

Ophira Eisenberg (25:34)

Yeah, yeah. He's still really. Although that might totally be great in some circumstances.

Mike Peska (25:40)

What do you know?

Ophira Eisenberg (25:41)

So, yeah. But it does. It does occur to me that he is going to grow up with that. He's no. Shame. I love shame. Mike, I think we. We might be in the same era I I grew up with. Lots of shame. I mean, most of Wait, wait.

Mike Peska (25:56)

That's a good question. That's going to be a good answer. Why are they withholding it from me? It's called the Fade out. Though dreaded, it will underline and incentivize you to perhaps buy a subscription to Peska plus or give it to a loved one or a liked one. Or if you know this person hates the gist. I hated one. It's a good way to get back at someone. I'll give you 20% off if you subscribe to either the Ad Free podcast or the Pesca plus offering if you use the promo code Cheese at checkout Breed Cheddar. I don't specify Cheese at checkout for 20 off. And if you're giving the gift automatically, it will apply this 20 off discount. Go to subscribe.mikepeska.com for more of the gist and a great gift for you and your loved ones or loathed ones.

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Mike Peska (27:45)

I'm sure you know the old saying.

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Mike Peska (28:39)

And now the Spiel President Joe Biden commuted The sentences of 37 of the 40 prisoners on federal death row. This makes permanent the policies of his administration which to impose a moratorium on death row executions, quote, except in cases of terrorism and hate, motivated mass murder. So the remaining three prisoners subject to lethal injection are Robert Bowers, convicted for the mass shooting at the Tree of Life Synagogue, Dylann Roof, convicted for the fatal shooting of nine parishioners at Mother Emmanuel Church in South Carolina, and Jokar Sir Niev, convicted of the Boston Marathon bombing. And indeed, as per Joe Biden's criteria, the three individuals did all commit heinous acts of terrorism. But I would argue an exception for that. One crime doesn't really make logical sense in terms of deterrence, morality, or a shared statement of values. Of course, here I am looking at a development that's 90% positive and criticizing the other 10%. Slightly less than 10%. 3 out of 40. But I think it all bears scrutiny. So follow me here. In terms of deterrence, the studies and the evidence are really overwhelming. The risk of an individual being put to death has no deterrence on crime. People think they are not going to get caught. They don't commit crimes. Thinking, if I do get caught, what will the sentence be? That's one. In terms of morality. I'm actually not the type of person who says the government should never kill. There are different reasons for that. I just think that the government should never make a mistake in who they kill. And since the government has made mistakes, the easiest way to prevent that from happening is a moratorium on all state sanctioned executions. But yes, the answer goes, we absolutely know that these three individuals absolutely did it. I agree, but we're supposed to know absolutely no. Everyone who we put on death row did it. And we don't know that because these three have more prominence and we've studied the cases, or because our knowledge about them is more unassailable than a poor motel clerk from Oklahoma. There is an exception. I don't think it's the best way to ensure that no innocent people are put to death. The notoriety of Ruth Bowers and Tsarnaev. That is in fact why they're still subject to the death penalty. And I would say that's not a good enough reason. Among the prisoners who will now be serving life sentences instead of facing lethal injection are prisoners who have killed more people. Right. In the Boston Marathon bombing, three people were killed by the bombs. And then the Tsarnaev brothers killed an MIT policeman named Sean Collier. Hundreds were injured over a dozen Lost limbs. But that's not why Sarnaev is being put to death. He's being held responsible for two of the deaths. His brother was held accountable for the other two. Whereas there are a couple of guys on death row, Yori Use, Katamovas and Yuri Mikhail, who are serial killers. Essentially they would kidnap people, murder them. They each murdered five people. Also now on death row, facing life sentences are Ricardo Sanchez Jr. And Daniel Troia, who killed four people, a family of four, two children among them. And if it's not the number of dead, but the depravity, there are other people who are now off death row who I think did worse and are worse than even Sarnaev. Take Marvin Gabrion. He killed a woman who was going to testify against him for raping her, and he did that too. He brutally killed her, by the way. He almost certainly killed her 11 month old daughter. They never found the body. And I'll read from coverage. Gabrion is also the prime suspect in the disappearance and murders of several other people, including an additional witness set to testify against him, his handyman, another potential witness and family friend, and an unknown man. So more victims, more brutality, more evil, you could say. The only reason, in fact, that this guy was even on death row was that he did his killing in the state of Michigan, which does not have the death penalty, but he was specifically in a national forest at the time, thus subjecting him to federal death row. And that gets at the randomness of who gets the death penalty. The motive of the killer is not exactly random. And there are no equivalent cases of Roof or Bowers who are convicted federally and spared the death penalty. But there are several on the state level. Peyton Gendron killed 10 black people in a Buffalo, New York supermarket. He targeted them specifically because of racial animus. Pled guilty to hate crimes, but it's a state crime, New York State. His life will be spared. Then there is the white nationalist killer. Of 23 patrons of an El Paso Walmart, most of whom were Latino. This killer penned a manifesto railing against the, quote, Hispanic invasion. And last year, federal prosecutors decided not to seek the death penalty against this white nationalist. As well they shouldn't. But how is that case different from Roof or Bowers? I actually have no problem if any of those defendants perished. If any of them, while being arrested, resisted and shot at cops and they shot back and the cops killed them, that would not be a problem for me. I am, I shall say, indifferent to their ongoing presence on this earth. I do not oppose the death penalty based on the hard to pin down claim that the state is better than killing the worst offenders or that state sanctioned death somehow devalues human life. That is not why I oppose it. Oppose it because we get it wrong too often and apply it way too haphazardly. So I say kudos to Joe Biden for commuting 37 sentences even of the worst of the worst killers and the other three. I understand it's a hard political lift and it would set up future Democrats for criticism. My point is basically that if we are to be a more moral society, what we probably have to do is put up with the frustration of the worst of the worst, like Bowers and Roof and arguably Sir Naev not getting the worst sentences so that others who don't deserve that fate are also caught up in this dragnet of lenience. We're now being mostly merciful, which I think the theologians and philosophers would tell you isn't what it means to fully reject cruelty. That's it for today's show. Cory Wara produces the gist. Joel Patterson's the senior producer, Leo Bounds the intern, Michelle Pescas the CBSO of Peach Fish Productions in Peru. G Peru de Peru. Thanks for listening.

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Mike Peska (36:03)

Let's go.

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Ophira Eisenberg (36:11)

Brad, you're on mute.

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