Chris Getherd and the Great Helsinki Caper

Summary

The Gist: Chris Gethard and the Great Helsinki Caper

Release Date: March 24, 2025
Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: Chris Gethard
Produced by: Peach Fish Productions

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca delves into an intriguing blend of historical intrigue and contemporary comedy with special guest Chris Gethard. The discussion spans from Cold War espionage to the evolving landscape of stand-up comedy, offering listeners a multifaceted exploration of both past and present societal dynamics.

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2. The JFK Files and the Helsinki Connection

Mike Pesca opens the episode by referencing the recently declassified JFK files, highlighting unexpected revelations about CIA activities in Finland during the Cold War. This segment sets the stage for the episode's title, "Chris Gethard and the Great Helsinki Caper," hinting at a deeper dive into historical mysteries.

• Notable Quote:

  "Finland might seem to us just the land of ski jumps and Scandinavian folk with too many consecutive A's in their name, but during the Cold War, it was all about Finland." — Mike Pesca [01:03]

Pesca discusses Lee Harvey Oswald's stint in Helsinki before his defection to the Soviet Union, pointing out the lack of clarity regarding his motives and the unresolved questions that remain even after decades.

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3. Introducing Chris Gethard

Chris Gethard, a comedian and comedy pioneer, joins Pesca to discuss his expansive career in stand-up, improv, and television. Gethard is celebrated for his unique blend of humor and ethical considerations in his craft.

• Notable Quote:

  "It's a real reflection of a very motivated, very creative person who is at a very specific place." — Chris Gethard [10:20]

Gethard reflects on his journey, emphasizing the balance between creative integrity and the demands of mainstream success.

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4. The Evolution of Stand-Up Comedy

The conversation shifts to the challenges and transformations within the stand-up comedy scene. Gethard expresses his struggle with traditional stand-up formats, despite deriving significant personal satisfaction from them.

• Notable Quote:

  "Stand up, I think, has always been the most challenging to me. I'm not the best at it, but it's been the most fascinating." — Chris Gethard [12:28]

Gethard compares his experience to the music industry, questioning why certain artists achieve mainstream success while others, like his collaborator Jay Church, remain under the radar.

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5. Ethical Stance in Comedy

A central theme of the discussion revolves around the ethical responsibilities of comedians. Gethard critiques the current trends in comedy, particularly the rise of aggressive crowd work and its impact on both performers and audiences.

• Notable Quote:

  "You are there to provide them [the audience] ... they do not exist as fodder for you." — Chris Gethard [25:08]

Gethard emphasizes the importance of respecting the audience, advocating for a service-oriented approach rather than viewing audience members as targets for humor.

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6. The Impact of Social Media and Changing Audiences

Pesca and Gethard explore how platforms like TikTok have altered audience expectations and comedian-audience interactions. Gethard laments the shift towards antagonistic humor that prioritizes viral moments over genuine connection.

• Notable Quote:

  "I have zero desire to participate in that [aggressive, viral-focused comedy]. It feels mean to the hardworking people who need to laugh." — Chris Gethard [27:54]

Gethard discusses the negative repercussions of this trend, including decreased ticket sales and a loss of diverse, inclusive audiences seeking meaningful entertainment.

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7. Maintaining Creative Integrity

Despite external pressures and evolving industry standards, Gethard remains steadfast in his commitment to ethical comedy. He highlights the importance of upholding personal values over chasing trends or maximizing profits.

• Notable Quote:

  "I've never fallen prey to the idea that you just chase a trend, especially if it's a really negative trend." — Chris Gethard [19:20]

Gethard shares anecdotes about resisting industry pressures to conform, reinforcing his dedication to authentic expression and the well-being of his audience.

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8. Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reflections on the state of comedy and its intersection with societal changes. Pesca and Gethard underscore the necessity for comedians to navigate these shifts thoughtfully, ensuring that humor remains a source of connection and relief rather than division.

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Key Takeaways

• Historical Insights: The JFK files reveal significant CIA involvement in Finnish elections during the Cold War, raising questions about international espionage and its long-term implications.

• Comedic Integrity: Chris Gethard advocates for an ethical approach to comedy, prioritizing audience respect over viral fame or trend-chasing.

• Industry Challenges: The rise of social media has transformed stand-up comedy, introducing both opportunities and challenges that impact audience dynamics and performer strategies.

• Personal Reflection: Gethard's candid discussions offer valuable perspectives on maintaining creative authenticity in an ever-evolving entertainment landscape.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Gist provides a compelling blend of historical analysis and contemporary cultural critique, enriched by Chris Gethard's insightful commentary. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of both the intricate past events surrounding Lee Harvey Oswald and the nuanced challenges facing modern comedians striving to balance ethics with artistic expression.

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Produced by Corey Wara. Michelle Pesca is CBSO of Peach Fish Productions. Thank you for listening to The Gist.

Transcript

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[Mike Pesca]

It's Monday, March 24, 2025. From Peach Fish Productions, it's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca. The JFK files were a bust. They don't even tell you which gate JetBlue is leaving from. It's one right next to the Jamba Juice, by the way. But in all seriousness. No, sorry. In some small degree of seriousness, there was a treasure trove of information contained within. I am finding out just now. Historians say we learned a lot about Finland. Yes, we learned about Finnish elections and the CIA interference therein, thanks to the JFK files. You see, Finland might seem to us just the land of ski jumps and Scandinavian folk with too many consecutive A's in their name, but during the Cold War, it was all about Finland. The New York Times quotes Arturo Jimenez Bacardi, University of South Florida historian, who said that the documents revealed CIA election interference efforts in Finland. It was. Finland was on the fence, you know, right next to Russia. But I think still wanted to go with the good guys, the United States, whose internal apparatus may have assassinated the President. Nope, that's not in the files. What was in the files? According to Tim Naftali, great chronicler of the CIA, he told the Washington Post that some of the newly unredacted documents confirmed American covert actions such as involvement in elections in Brazil, Cyprus, Greece and Spain. Okay, sure, those we knew of the chicanery there. And Finland. We knew there was something going on in Finland. We knew the CIA was all onto Finland. But how much? How effective? Who won that election? So last year Finland declassified its 60 year old intelligence report into Lee Harvey Oswald. He stayed in Helsinki before heading to the Soviet Union. The USSR wasn't into his defection by the way, but check out this Finnish declassified Expedia level information. On the night of October 10, 1959, a young man identified as Lee Harvey Oswald arrived at Hotel Tornay in Helsinki. Hailing from the United States, he checked into room 309. That's good information, claiming a five day stay. However, after just two nights, Oswald change hotels, moving to the Klaus Kirky Hotel where he stayed an additional three nights.

[Chris Gethard]

Why?

[Mike Pesca]

Why did he change hotels? Were there bedbugs? Was he bugged? Despite suppose which is the Finnish Intelligence Agency efforts, the authorities were unable to determine Oswald's motives for his trip to Helsinki. And we still don't know and it's still a mystery. Declassified Donald Declassify when it comes to Oswald's Helsinki foray, I say the truth is still out there. On the show today I spiel about all the government efficiency that's being saved thanks to Doge how to think about it but first, Chris Gethard is a comedian and something of a comedy pioneer. I don't know if you know, but we are bringing back funny. You should mention season two and in advance of that I talked to Chris about differences between stand up and improv and storytelling. I talked about how he brings his sense of ethics to the stage and how sees the cycle of taste in comedy as affecting his career. Chris Gethard up next the other day I hosted a poker game. No one really wanted to get sloshed, but you know, to to loosen things up. If you're a tight player, maybe it helps to have a little fun, a little buzz. But then you got the ordeal, the hangover the next day, the added weight gain, we got a solution. It's Sol's out of Office THC Beverage. A lot of the fun, buzziness without the downsides that come from booze. This podcast is sponsored by Sol's out of Office Beverages. They're microdosed with hemp derived THC and CBD to give any situation a vacation vibe. Like I said, the well, it wasn't the raspberry lemonade, it was the cucumber flavor. Many of the poker players that I was playing with found oh so delicious. No hangovers, no alcohol, sleeplessness or anxiety. Nope, it's not what Sol's got. Whether you're looking for a sleep aid, enhanced focus or pain relief, Sol has all your wellness needs covered. If you want to feel your best head to get soul.com and use code the gist for 30% off your order, that's 30% off. Your order using Code the Gist one last time getsol.com and code the gist for 30% off. Elevating my style used to mean well, spending way too much money and way too much time figuring out what website. Then when you go, you say, does the sweater look good? But Quince ends all that I know and can rely on high end versatile pieces at prices I can afford. Quince is a delight to clad myself in the Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50. The leather jackets, great pants for every occasion. Formal, casual pleats, non they got it all Quint Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. The key is they partner with top factories, they cut the cost of the middleman, they pass the savings on to us. I mean, that sounds kind of cliche, but that's what they do and it works and you look good in them. They only work with the factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I have a Mongolian sweater. That's the one. I have worn it on a few of the videos that we put out so you could see it. You'll never know how good it feels from the inside, but I'm here to tell you it's plenty good. Indulge your affordable luxury. Go to quince.com/the gist for free shipping on your order and a 365 day return. That's Q U I N C e.com/the gist to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/the gist Chris Gethard is a comedian. He's a podcaster. Beautiful Anonymous is really, it goes, it goes beyond the moth and into areas of personal connection like few podcasts do. It's a real reflection on Chris's values. He's had several standup specials, he performs regularly at the Comedy Cellar, and he joins us for an edition of Funny you should mention where I interrogate the premise of many a construct joke. I think Chris is going to roll with me on that. Hey Chris, welcome. Welcome back to the Gist.

[Chris Gethard]

Oh, it's a joy. You always, every time I get to talk to you, I remember that you're just a truly gifted conversationalist. And I'm not trying to blow smoke, but I tell you, I get a lot of credit with Beautiful Anonymous. And you are one of the people I point to as somebody where I'm like, well, you want to see somebody in action who knows how to just have a conversation? Go check out Pasco. Man. So it's good to talk to you again.

[Mike Pesca]

Thanks, man. So I want to talk to you about your standup mostly because I have talked to you mostly in the past about beautiful Anonymous and about the Chris Gethard show, which I think is. Will one day be remembered by future civilizations as a high watermark for comedy, creativity and chaos. But how. I saw a special that you put together a couple of years ago, the idea being that you've now spent half your life doing standup. You probably aren't, aren't so precise with the taxonomy. But of all, all your comedy endeavors, where would you rank the importance of stand up to you?

[Chris Gethard]

It's really hard to say. It's really hard to say in. I struggle with my relationship with stand up, if I'm being honest, because I don't think it's the thing I'm best at, but it's probably the thing I, I get the most gratification from in some ways. Like, I started as an improviser and that came very naturally to me. And I became really well known in that world both as a performer and a teacher for many years. My TV show, there's nothing else like it that was unique to me. No one can touch that. Like, I'm not saying that it ever lit the world on fire, numbers wise, but as far as that vibe, we nailed something, you know?

[Mike Pesca]

Right. And no one could ever say, hey, let's do another Chris Gethard show, because it's all, well, it's only. There is no such thing. It's all just based on the vagaries of insight as to the human condition, plus funniness that only Chris Gethard has.

[Chris Gethard]

And that I don't think I could do anymore because I'm not mentally ill in the same way as I was when I created the show. This is not to say that I don't have problems today, but I go. It's a real, it is a real reflection of a very motivated, very creative person who is at a very specific place.

[Mike Pesca]

Like needing that. Are you saying needing that to get by and get through?

[Chris Gethard]

In some ways, yeah. And if you, you know, if you, if you cracked open my brain back then when I was still dealing with so much self loathing, so much self doubt, so much of this feeling that I had to prove something to somebody, that's what comes out. And you have to also mix that with a New York City that still had real estate that could, you know, where punk bands could go and like live in a squat together and four bands could run a performance venue in Bushwick and where comedy and music could cross over in those ways. You look at it now and you go, the theater I came out of UCB now has corporate ownership. You look at the music spaces that all the bands that used to play my show came out of, they don't exist anymore. They've all been turned into other types of real estate. And then you think of the Manhattan Neighborhood Network and public access where we walked in and went, oh, this is a place where all those. We can kind of build this TV studio and invite all the corners of the music and comedy world of New York in that era to treat this as an outpost for them. None of those things exist anymore, let alone the fact that the things that do exist now, like Twitch and Discord and all these things are clearly where we would try to execute those ideas. So it was of its time. Point being, those things probably define me more. But stand up, I think, has always been the most challenging to me. I'm not the best at it. I'm nobody's favorite stand up. I am a lot of people's second or third favorite stand up. But in many ways it's actually been the most fascinating to me because it is. Is the most difficult and is the most challenging. And that. That came least naturally to me out of all the things I've done.

[Mike Pesca]

So is that. So are you like the XTC of stand up or am I degraded? Is there's someone out there who likes XTC more than Smiths? I guess.

[Chris Gethard]

I love the way your brain goes, but I mean, it's. It's probably not a coincidence that, like, I am, I am. I come from a musical background where I'm like, cool. Everybody has discovered Jawbreaker, but how come everybody's not listening to Jay Church the drumme? Jawbreaker was also the drummer for Jay Church for a while, and they were all roommates together. How come Jay Church never blew up the same as Jawbreaker? Like, that's always been my mentality. And I've realized there's some level of self sabotage where I always sort of land as that type of artist.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Gethard]

And there's probably something intentional about that. Even though I bang my head against the wall wondering sometimes how I've come so close to more mainstream success so many times. And I sit there and I go, and yet I keep landing in the same exact slot that all the artists I love the most landed, which is being the maybe slightly more countercultural thing that's right next to the mainstream success. I've landed right there. So Many times. So I have to sit there and realize, like, it's always what I loved the most and it's where I keep landing. Maybe some of that is, is not, I wouldn't say intentional, but subconsciously landing where I'm landing where clearly a zone I've always liked. I grew up on WFMU radio. I grew up watching the Uncle Floyd show. I grew up watching things that were sort of very weird and very cool, but never mainstream. You know, the music I listened to fits that as well. So sit here in my 40s and I go, yeah, makes sense to me that I've always wound up very close to mainstream success, but maybe just off the edge of that game board.

[Mike Pesca]

So when you had parts on big shows and well acclaimed shows and shows that were really good, like Parks and Rec or the Office were was your attitude, well, let's do this spot and let's not be against it. I'm not selling out. I'm not doing some shitty sitcom. But do you think your attitude was less gung ho than maybe, I don't know, your management team or even other people who are writing that show and wanted big, more success, more, I'm not going to say mainstream, more conventional success for Chris Gethard than Chris Gethard did?

[Chris Gethard]

Yeah, I mean, I've had a lot of. My manager has stuck with me for many, many years. And you actually, you know each other from before entertainment. So, you know, he really, really good guy. And I've been with him, I think since 2007 or 2008 now. And a big part of why is my manager is the only guy ever on my team who, when I wanted to do public access television a year after my sitcom got canceled, he was like, awesome, sounds like the new Uncle Floyd show. Go for it. Love that shit. I have confused so many agents over the years, so many people who have told me now is the exact time to move to Los Angeles. I once had an agent tell me, you sort of have four different cult fan bases and if we could just get them all in the same room at the same time, you'd be one of my biggest acts. How can we.

[Mike Pesca]

How interesting. What were the four?

[Chris Gethard]

The Improv, the beautiful anonymous fan base, the Gethard show fanbase, the fans who know me through the things like Broad City and the Office and Parks and Rec. As a character actor. At any given point, you know, Mike Birbiglia's movie is taking off and I'm on this American Life a few times. Like, at any given point, I've had and you know, it has slowed down in recent years, but when I was at my biggest and when I was at my most thriving, it was very clear. Oh, the beautiful anonymous fans don't watch the Chris Gethard Show. The Chris Gethard show fans don't love my stand up. The fans of my stand up aren't necessarily into the books I'm writing. Like, they. They were all sort of like separate but equal underground fan bases where even I couldn't get them all in one. I was aware of all of them and they were all helping me pay my bills. And even I couldn't come up with the thing. I mean, certain episodes of the Gethard Show, I think Career Suicide, my HBO special, brought a lot of those fan bases together under one roof for the same time. And I just did not manage to further that momentum. And that was a point where the big turning point I look at now that has kind of put me at where I'm at these days is when, when Career Suicide came out, my manager did tell me, it is time to end the Chris Gethard Show. You should not be working for true TV when you're getting all this critical praise from HBO and NPR and all this. It's time to now go jump on it and become like, you could be Punk Rock Birbiglia if you just put your foot on that gas right now, right? Which be a lovely career. And Mike has been a mentor to me. And I said, I know. And he said, that being said, I also know that your wife is on the show, that you have friends who met through the Chris Gethard show who have babies now, that this is literally something that exists between friendship and job and family to you in a lot of these cases. And that yet last year of doing the Gethard show was probably a massive mistake, momentum wise. But what am I going to do? I built it. And I have a sense of ethics that told me, you take this one over the finish line and you don't, you know, there's close to. On any given shoot week, 100 people have their jobs because of this thing. I'm going to take 100 people's jobs away because I have a chance to go be the punk rock Mike Birbiglia. Like, it's just not who I am. So sometimes I look back at the past 24 years of doing comedy and go, sometimes I have maybe held on to being like Mr. Punk Rock a little too much or trying to be a little bit. What would Ian Makai do? What would. What would. What would Ian Makai do? Right now and go, I'm the only one who cares. And sometimes I have sex sabotaged in that way, and it has hurt me. And in other ways, I'm actually immensely proud of it, because there's comedians out there who can make fun of my act, and they have. There's people who have made me feel a little unwelcome in the scene, and that's fine based on the fact that I'm a little strange or that my act is not the standard. But what nobody can ever question is that I've done things my own way with a sense of ethics that have guided me. And, you know, if I'm speaking frankly, a lot of the people who have spoken ill of me in a way that rattled me, when I take a step back, I look at it and I go, I don't see any sense of ethics. All I see with a lot of those people is chase the trend toward the money. And maybe I haven't made as much money as I could in the past 24 years, but I've never. I've never fallen prey to that idea that you just chase a trend, especially if it's a really negative trend. Are there money?

[Mike Pesca]

Are there standups that are close to the model of what might have been? Like, I think of. I don't know if he's punk rock, he might be alt, but I think of Patton Oswald not sacrificing in terms of the quality of the creative work and even a lot of the side projects that are definitely not making money for him. Like, he's this, like, Patreon supporter of a podcast I love called Valley Heat. You know, that's just one that comes to mind. And then. Or you could even take it, like, well, maybe you could have redefined what stand up is. You know, Hannah Gatsby did that. Maybe your standup could have been a very sui. Generous thing. I don't know. Was that ever a consideration?

[Chris Gethard]

And I also want to be clear, too, when I'm like, nobody can question my ethics. I'm not the only one. Kyle Kanane is out there. Maria Bamford is. I mean, so many people down the line. Also comedians actively working in clubs right now who draw real. Set real lines on where. What they're willing to participate in, what their goals are. A lot of people out there, but. But, you know, so I'm not trying to claim that I'm some, like, lone samurai wandering through the desert in, like, you know, a kung fu style, loneliness. Like, there are others out there. And I'm very inspired by them. But I do think that in general, entertainment probably rewards the hot hand and rewards the trends more than it rewards someone who says, hey, I want to work with you, but there's certain things I'm willing to do and not willing to do and there's certain ways I want to do stuff. And we all might make a little less money, but I want to avoid Ticketmaster fees. I want to avoid certain venues. I want to, I want to. Especially as I'm getting older, I sit here, I go, you know this idea that someone comes out and they might need to get a babysitter and they might need to pay for parking and meals and drinks and times are really hard right now and they're setting aside a night and this might be their only date night this month. Is there any way. And they thought they bought a $20 tick ticket, but after all the fees, it's $43. That to me is messed up. You don't do that, let alone what you don't do. And I'm not trying to talk about any of my peers right here, but I sit here and I go. The fact that sometimes people pay all this money and we're also in a current climate that's like. And you might have the camera pointed at you so someone can get their crowd work bit and make fun of you might have just spent $350 on the night where you spent. You thought you were spending under 200. And this might be your only date night this month. And you might show up on the comedians TikTok because they might choose to make fun of your job while you're sitting there in front of your wife right now panicking about how to react. And they might get a reaction shot of you eating shit because you're getting crushed for the TikTok algorithm. I just sit there, I go, I got zero desire to participate in that. It feels mean to the hard working people who need to laugh and are trying to spend their money to have a night away from their problems. And I just have no interest in it. So I don't know. I'm rambling. You. You get the good rambles out of me.

[Mike Pesca]

When you do crowd work, I have seen you say, don't worry, don't be afraid, I'm not going to make fun of you. I'm not that kind of comedian.

[Chris Gethard]

Yeah. I actively have to remind people now it's very cliche for comedians to complain about the current state of crowd work driven comedy driving things. But I can say I'm not the only one out Here who goes, it is affecting ticket sales for a lot of us in a very negative way. Anytime someone goes to a market and gets in a fight with their audience member and posts it on TikTok, it might give them a little adrenaline. But what it does is it attracts more of that aggro energy for their audience. But a lot of other people in that room that night probably go, the next time we have a date night, let's go see a movie or let's go see a band because the band is not going to make fun of us and put it on TikTok. It's a weird thing that only exists in comedy that has proven very lucrative in the sense that it's, it's a dopamine kick. On social media, the clips can go really big. They have made certain people famous and God bless them. I'm never mad at anybody for paying their checks. But I will say, I'll just be blunt and say I think I attract an audience that's known for being a little bit smart. And I think smart people right now might be a little too smart to treat that as a date night. It's a really aggressive environment to walk into and we've spent a couple years training ticket buying audiences that, that's what comedy is right now.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Chris Gethard]

There's a lot of smart people that go, I don't think comedy's for me anymore. And that bums me out. That bums me out because I lived through not one, but a couple golden ages where I saw all sorts of comedians start to really do creative stuff that brought in all sorts of people into the audiences. Hipsters and music audiences and working class audiences and tourist audiences all mixing together in the same rooms in New York City to watch bills where sometimes you, you know, you could go see certain shows where you'd see the best club comedians and really, really weirdo alt comedians sharing the same bills because there's a mutual respect for the creativity behind all of it. I don't feel like that's there as much the past couple years and just on a personal level it bums me out. There's a lot of people doing really well. I love social media for the lack of gatekeepers. I love it for the fact that it allows people to self. There's anybody who self created a career, it's me and I love it for that. But the fact that so much of it leans towards this stuff that's based on aggression and antagonism. Yeah, that to me has a short term benefit and long term man. Well who's coming? The people buying tickets are people who want to get in these situations. And those are people who strike me as off kilter or aggressive in certain ways that I just don't need to be around.

[Mike Pesca]

But at the same time, as someone with the soul and background, as an improviser, there can be great energy to the unexpected. Now, you know, as a professional, it's not always unexpected when you engage in crowd work. A lot of the times it's just which guy, which poor SAP is the target of floating punchline and the best one gets put on YouTube reels. But so how do you, if you don't want to do certainly mean crowd work, but you still want to hold open the possibility of the unexpected. Even in your comedy shows, how do you cultivate that?

[Chris Gethard]

I think a lot of it is a contract with the audience, right, of remembering that this is, at the end of the day, a service industry and that anyone who buys a ticket to be in the room, you are there to provide them. They do not exist as fodder for you. That if we're playing within that parameters, that this is all in the spirit of a good show and perhaps a magical night for the people who chose to show up and give you, you know, give you some of their hard earned cash to be entertained. I think as long as it plays within that parameters, you're good. But we all know right now, the past couple years, the cameras have been pointing out at the crowd as much as they're pointing at the comedian on stage. And, you know, not to be too blunt, but, you know, I've had situations. I had a special, the half my life special, where a woman wound up getting on stage and wrestling me on stage like that. I'm sitting here saying, I'm in, you know, I'm not anti crow. I'm saying, I think there's a long difference between someone going, you know, yelling stuff, and me being able to go, oh. And it actually turns into the fact that your dad's a wrestling coach and you'll get up and demonstrate wrestling.

[Mike Pesca]

To be clear, this was no Andy Kaufman bit. And she probably ferret you, right? Would you say, well, she took me.

[Chris Gethard]

Down, she got me in a cow catcher. The move was like some version of a cow catcher. And she really took me out and it hurt, it hurt, but it wasn't a plant. But it was all playful and she was cheered for it at the end. And then the show moved on. And to me, that's just a lot different than, you know, not trying to be an asshole. But I sit here and go, how many times do I need to sign on TikTok and see a male comedian calling an audience member a cunt? Before we all go, whether or not this has anything to do with kindness, we should all start talking about its relationship with hackiness. And we should all start taking a deep breath about the ticket sales for all of us. Because guess what? You call somebody a They're never buying a ticket to a comedy show again. Neither is whoever came with them that night. And neither are 20% of the people in that room who go, I'm so thankful that wasn't me. They were never buying a ticket to a comedy show again. But congratulations, you went viral on Tick Tock.

[Mike Pesca]

You know and Part two tomorrow for some more details about Shane Gillis throwing. Hated him and how much yelling at the audiences hurts comedy. Chris Gethard on again tomorrow.

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[Chris Gethard]

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[Chris Gethard]

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[Mike Pesca]

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[Mike Pesca]

And now the spiel the government is cutting a lot. Elon Doge those guys is it's sometimes hard to keep up or to properly evaluate the worth of every program or the value of every slash. One easy heuristic is Elon's a maniac. I'm against it, but I do try to evaluate the cuts on more of a case by case basis rather than a musk by musk basis, because musk by musk tends to lead you into thinking about a guy who names his kid one of his 14 kids. Our techno mechanicus more than the value and efficiency of the individual program. So program by program, and there are a lot of programs you know about USAID and the Department of Education, I hope. Now the Yale program that tracked kidnapped Ukrainian children. I talked about it. The grants cut from Columbia University include research into increasing screenings for colorectal cancer. Now, I happen to be against colorectal cancer, but, but, and here's a caveat. If colorectal cancer is detected early, that's better than detected late. So that grant, given my prior, seems like a good thing. It also seems largely independent of the excesses of anti Zionists on the lawn. Also being cut, the Cyber Safety Review Board, as in these guys.

[Chris Gethard]

Welcome back, everybody. The U.S. cyber Safety Review Board is placing the blame on Microsoft for a targeted Chinese hack on top top U.S. government officials emails last year.

[Mike Pesca]

I appreciate the research. You know, right now they're currently looking into a extremely complex penetration into US networks by the Chinese. I guess we're going to have to get their research from somewhere else. Good luck. Oh, they're also eliminating the Voice of America. Now, is this a good thing? Guess who thinks so? The Chinese. The Global Times, which is the tabloid version of the Chinese Communist Party's flagship newspaper, the People's Daily, writes under the headline why voa, known as a live factory, has halted Operations. By the way, if you read the story, you think, oh, that's why they halted, because it's a live factory. No, that's not what the People's Daily is arguing. They are arguing, quote, known for stirring up conflicts, inciting social divisions, and even participating regime change efforts, VOA is widely recognized as Washington's carefully crafted propaganda machine for peaceful evolution, earning itself a notorious reputation on the global stage. Stop. Okay, Whatever its reputation on the global stage is asserted by the Chinese, it should have a fantastic reputation on the domestic stage if it can achieve peaceful evolution. See, the thing is, I don't think it's as good as the Chinese are saying it is. They continue, similar to Radio Free Asia and Radio Free Europe, slash Radio Liberty. Its primary function is to serve Washington's need to attack other countries based on ideological demands. And they conclude the so called beacon of freedom via DOA has now been discarded by its own government like a dirty rag. All right, so the Chinese have weighed in. They're in favor. Also eliminated the Pentagon's Office of Net Assessment, which has been called the office that won the Cold War. There was a time when we were rooting for the Americans in that particular war. Now I'm not so sure. So most of these programs seem pretty good on paper. The one or two line description or slogan like Won the Cold War would tend to make you miss them. But here's the thing. There really could well be a whole lot of waste, pointlessness, redundancy, inefficiency, and even initiatives which run counter to American interests as you, the voter, define them. How are we to know? How are we to individually evaluate how efficient these programs were? How much we could get the same bang for fewer bucks bucks, how much they're really worth it? After you get past the top line description, it doesn't surprise me that if you describe these things by a phrase, that phrase sounds good. They were put into effect because the phrase sounded good, or were at least founded and funded by someone who understood that you have to justify the thing to some extent. Right? This is why there is nothing named the Department of Ripping us off or the government Office of Frustrating you. That would be goofy. When Anthony Weiner was on not Even Mad, he said he was against the very nicely named Institute of Peace.

[Chris Gethard]

I just read that they, they want to close down the Institute of Peace.

[Mike Pesca]

When I was in Congress, I worked with Republicans try to close that place down too. Who's not for peace? Well, Anthony Weiner explained his thinking. Shouldn't the State Department be the Institute for Peace? Yes. Yeah, I guess it's unclear what, if anything, or how much more or less peaceful the US and the world would be without the Institute for Peace. I don't know. I know it's getting cut. All we really have to go on is our conception of what the agencies do, often based on a paraphrase or if we're lucky enough to read publications with enough resources to provide coverage, an article or full story detailing the functions of the agency or program. Maybe if the article is really good, that they'll get into some criticisms of the programs being cut and somehow if we're super lucky, we'll have some way to discern what are the legitimate criticisms and what are illegitimate. I don't know how we're supposed to do that. I don't know how we're supposed to invest all this time, especially as we're trying to keep up with all these things getting cut. So what we do is we default to a general narrative about the cuts and about Musk, if we like Musk and Trump. But if we like Musk, if we think he seems like a cool dude with his memes in his chainsaw, then we like the cuts. If he seems kind of, oh, what's the word? Extreme. Here's another word, silly. With his black on black hats and his chainsaw, we might disagree with the Guy. And then we as the news consuming, discerning public and citizenry fall back on our initial impressions and maybe whatever new anecdotes or pieces of information flit across our consciousness. But mostly it's our initial impressions. Not that anyone could really turn our distaste or support for the cuts into anything like a vote at this point. So really the only important official and non subjective thing going on around this is, well, in the short term the cuts are going into effect, so there's less government right now and maybe for the next few months. But the only official thing, and I think the only thing that will last are not the stories or not our impressions are not what we think of Ellen. It's the rule of law, the formalities of the institutions that say these can proceed and these can't. And we are seeing the courts working slowly but well. And the administration on this specific question of cuts is more or less adhering to court orders. You could argue less. I know some will want to, but they are not, not objecting to or flat out defying court orders. They're doing so imperfectly, as imperfectly as you would expect from government by chainsaw. So we've got this really interesting, hard to understand phenomenon and it's going on flying all around us and it's chaos and uncertainty and headlines and upheaval. But also we have the assertion of institution based order. And I'm not saying everything will go back to normal or even that there will be a Department of education the year 2027. I am saying for all the Hegelian thesis and antithesis, what lasts and what counts is real. So far has been the institutions, the legal institutions, let's say some of these programs do deserve to go. It seems that will happen by an actual process. Either the executive acting within its powers as defined by the courts. And that's happened in some cases. Some of the cuts the courts have said, yeah, the executive could do that. Some of the cuts they're saying, yeah, Congress is going to have to do that, like with the Department of Education. And maybe Congress will get it together to do that or won't. I am open to the idea that some of the slashing is warranted. I am convinced by the argument, much of the argument that there's a lot of slashing that's not warranted, certainly not this much and not this quickly. But how do we know what's the right amount? We don't. We never will. But also remember, that's not really the purpose of government to get everything right. The purpose is more along the lines of to express the will of the people through the rule of law. That more or less seems to be mostly happening by hook or crook, slasher, burn, chainsaw or suture. And that's it for today's show. The gist is produced by Corey Wara. Michelle Pesca is CBSO of Peach Fish Productions. And thanks for listening.