Chris Turner: Possession is 9/10 of the Word

Summary

---

The Gist — "Chris Turner: Possession is 9/10 of the Word"

Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: Chris Turner
Date: December 31, 2025
Podcast Description: “For thirty minutes each day, Pesca challenges himself and his audience, in a responsibly provocative style, and gets beyond the rigidity and dogma. The Gist is surprising, reasonable, and willing to critique the left, the right, either party, or any idea.”

---

Overview

This episode features British-American comedian and renowned freestyle rapper Chris Turner. The conversation explores the art and technicalities of freestyle rap, comedy personas, handling hecklers, Turner's intellectual origins, and the nuances of writing and delivering comedy—culminating with a live, on-air freestyle rap based on imaginative audience prompts.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chris Turner’s Comedy Identity and Freestyle Rap

• Unfollowable Act: Pesca explains how Turner’s act is so outstanding that he always closes shows; other comedians find it difficult to follow him.
  • “He’s just… such a throw the car into an entirely different gear that it’s not always easy to recover from.” (00:36)
• "Best Freestyle Rapper": Turner discusses embracing the "greatest British rapper" label, noting audience skepticism and the surprises he delivers.
• Audience Engagement and Skepticism: Turner recounts initial audience doubt, particularly with his appearance (British, white, "doesn't look like a rapper") and how that becomes part of his act:
  • "Even for, like, a rapper who we've heard of, they can't make up raps." (05:30)
  • When he introduces himself as a rapper, people don’t believe until they see it. (06:33)
• Transition in Persona: Turner started as a one-liner, deadpan comic and evolved into improvisational musical comedy.

---

2. On Handling Hecklers and Cultural Appropriation

• Hecklers/Interactivity: Turner explains his method: absorbing heckles, reframing them as suggestions, and using them as fodder for freestyle rap.
  • “One of the best ways to deal with hecklers... is to just kinda make them seem silly.” (09:10)
• Cultural Appropriation: He addresses how audiences sometimes accuse him of appropriating hip-hop, and his nuanced response:
  • “It would be cultural appropriation if I didn’t love it, didn’t practice it a lot, didn’t appreciate it, and wasn’t good at it.” (09:10)

---

3. Evolution of Material and Persona

• Turner reflects on his early days with one-liners—writing them as spontaneous thoughts during university studies—and how environmental factors (writing essays, taking walks, shower thoughts) helped their creation.
  • “I would be writing two and a half essays a week... my brain would ...spit out these weird little joke thoughts and I would write them down.” (19:12)
• He notes the UK’s tradition of "weird" versus "cheesy" one-liner delivery (e.g., Milton Jones vs. Tim Vine), America’s preference for "cool" comedians, and his own snobbishness about musical comedy shifting as he began to perform as a rapper.
• Persona Shifts: Comedians often adapt their stage presence for impact; Turner outlines how presentation affects joke reception, referencing British and American comedic differences.
  • “Comedians aren't rock stars in the UK... A comedian should be like everyone. Unless they are the weirdo outsider...” (26:24)

---

4. Musical and Comedy Influences

• Early Rap Fascination: Turner shares how a lack of peers interested in rap (while growing up in Manchester) led him to believe all rap was improvised, fostering his freestyle abilities.
  • “I just assume that all rats is made up... Rap is making up a story. So I'm like, how can he just make this up? That's impossible.” (33:47)
• Crossover with Stand-up: His entry into rap came simultaneously with comedy, influenced by friends’ mixed tapes of Nirvana, Chris Rock, and Eminem (Napster/Limewire era).
• On Obscenity: The forbidden thrill of parental warnings increased his attraction to rap, making him improvise his own lyrics when albums were confiscated.

---

5. The Craft of One-liners and Freestyle

• Joke Structure Analysis: Turner explains joke mechanisms—timing, subversion, word economy—and how punchlines work best when they disrupt expected rhythm.
  • Notable Example:
    • “I’ve just got myself a laminator. It’s a machine that kills baby sheep.”
• Memorable Joke:
  • On the American saying, "Possession is 9/10 of the law"—Turner makes it “Possession is 9/10 of the word.” (44:21)
    • Pesca observes the cleverness of the joke, and Turner explains he only used it after confirming "possession" has ten letters. (45:19)

---

6. Freestyle Rap as Analytical and Creative Process

• Rhyme Construction: Turner likens freestyle to tennis, not chess:
  • “It’s not chess, where you’re thinking five moves ahead. It is tennis… The ball comes and you play that shot, and then… you just play that shot.” (53:37)
• Exploring Topics, Not Just Rhyming: Instead of merely finding impressive rhymes, Turner prioritizes rapping about the actual suggestion, creatively expanding on the topic.
  • “My interest is not in rhyming ‘Ukrainian herpes’, okay? My interest is in rapping about Ukrainian herpes.” (48:19)
• Performance Mindset: He explains in freestyling, he tries not to overthink or “look down” for fear of breaking the flow state (the “Wile E. Coyote” analogy, 55:28).
• Bad Suggestions: Advises against common prompts (“dogs” and “pizza”), prefers unique, creative audience input for better freestyles. (52:46)

---

7. Philosophy of Performing—For Whom?

• Turner differentiates performing primarily for himself versus the audience, noting many great comics focus on engaging their audience instead. (50:57)
• He de-emphasizes “cheats” like planned closers in freestyle, valuing in-the-moment creativity, though acknowledges both approaches have their place.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On audience disbelief:

  • “This person can't be good. They must be terrible. Have you seen them? Have you heard them? Do you understand what he said he's gonna do? That's not possible.” — Mike Pesca (05:26)

• On cultural appropriation:

  • “It would be cultural appropriation if I didn’t love it, didn’t practice it a lot, didn’t appreciate it, and wasn’t good at it.” — Chris Turner (09:10)

• On writing one-liners:

  • “I would be writing two and a half essays a week... my brain would not be trying to solve the problem of the essay. It would just spit out these weird little joke thoughts...” — Chris Turner (19:12)

• On growing up outside the rap community:

  • “I just assume that all rats is made up... Rap is making up a story. So I'm like, how can he just make this up? That's impossible.” — Chris Turner (33:47)

• On freestyle vs. planned comedy:

  • “Who are we performing for? ...I’m performing for me. And that’s one of my flaws as a comic. The greatest comics are performing for the audience.” — Chris Turner (50:57)

• On the flow state:

  • “You're in flow state until you acknowledge you're in flow state.” — Chris Turner (55:34)

• On the “Possession” joke:

  • “There's an American saying possession is 9/10 of the word. I think the reason that it is a saying...” — Chris Turner (44:21)

---

Highlight Segment: Live Freestyle Rap (59:50–63:30)

• Prompted by Pesca, Turner improvises a full freestyle (about Jerry Springer, goyim, cabinet nominees, LegalZoom, Hispaniola).
  • Witty references to Springer, DNA tests, Jerry’s British heritage, the geopolitical history of Hispaniola, and even (meta) commentary on the comedy itself.
  • Clever internal transitions and a fun, self-aware closer.

Pesca: “These were the rhymes that Chris Turner wrought. Thank you. And that’s my final thought.” (63:30)

Turner: “Oh, there we go. Very good. Very good.” (63:35)

Pesca: “It’s freaking amazing. This is why it’s a magic trick.” (63:37)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:36 — Intro to Chris Turner (“the closer”)
• 05:26 — Audience skepticism about rap (“can he actually do this?”)
• 06:34–08:44 — Audience reactions, appropriation, and Turner's comedic approach
• 09:10 — Addressing cultural appropriation claims
• 19:12 — Origins of Turner's one-liner writing in university
• 26:24 — British vs. American comedy Persona
• 33:47 — Learning rap as totally improvised, outsider artist's view
• 44:21 — “Possession is 9/10 of the word” joke breakdown
• 48:19 — Freestyle philosophy (“not just rhyming, but rapping about”)
• 52:46 — Guidelines for audience suggestions (food/animals = bad)
• 55:28 — Flow state inertia (Wile E. Coyote analogy)
• 59:50–63:30 — On-air freestyle rap performance

---

Final Thoughts

Throughout the interview, Turner offers both philosophical and practical insight into comedy, musicality, and the creative process—often highlighting the unpredictable joy of improvisation. His sharp intellect, deep appreciation for hip-hop culture (paired with a genuine humility about his outsider status), and fluid comic delivery all combine for a unique performance ethos: surprising the audience without ever underestimating them.

---

Listen for:

• The breakdown of what makes a joke “work”
• The mechanics of handling hecklers by “yes and-ing”
• The difference between writing for yourself versus writing for an audience
• A dazzling, fully improvised rap on disparate topics

Essential Chris Turner: Brilliantly quick-witted, self-aware, and evolving—whether as a deadpan one-liner merchant or an unmissable rap virtuoso.

---

Transcript

[Ad Voice]

New year, new vibe. Want the warmth of a drink, that smooth little kick, but also want to wake up tomorrow feeling amazing. That's where Arcay comes in. Arcay is the world's first zero proof spirits brand and they invented the warm molecule, giving you the burn of whiskey or tequila without a drop of alcohol. Start the year strong with 28 bold zero proof spirits. Zero calories, zero sugar, zero regrets. So you can celebrate big and still keep your resolutions on track. Start the year right. Join the Zero Proof Revolution at rkbeverages.com Foreign.

[Mike Pesca]

It's Wednesday, Dec. 31, 2025, from Peach Fish Productions, it's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca. Well, as 2025 comes to a close, I'm going to bring you a guy who could only act as a closer. When he goes on in the sort of comedy format where several comedians go on, he's just and we talk about this with Chris Turner, my guest. He's just such a change in such a throw the car into an entirely different gear that it's not always easy to recover from. Chris Turner is one of the most interesting rappers going his flow. Am I allowed to say flow? His flow is second to none. Plus he's unbelievably smart, maybe even too smart. Maybe I should have asked him that. Is there a excess of intelligence you could have where it's working against you? Like if you're maybe the best, best slot, the best, sweetest spot for a comic is to be smart enough so that if you're operating on the top of your intelligence, you're not losing most of the audience. But I think that if the Oxford, Cambridge educated Chris Turner were, we might be all a little lost. Then again, he elicits suggestions from the audience and he almost never doesn't know what the person is talking about or sometimes even more than what the person is talking about. So we'll orient you in in this with an example of how Chris Turner what Chris Turner does. And then in my interview on Funny, you should mention we will get into the thing that Chris Turner does, which is really kind of amazing. And just there's no following that Chris Turner up next, Age catches up to you. And that's okay. I'm getting definitely wiser. But you know, when I do a deep knee bend or even a mid knee bend, there are certain noises, the joints are stiff, recovery takes longer. I'm always looking for products, ideas or products that are ideas to help me out. I didn't really think of collagen or collagen peptides until Bubs came along. Bubs Naturals Collagen peptides makes you look and feel couple decades younger. So this could mean things like stronger joints, healthier nails. I will not mention healthier hair but apparently for people other than people like me, you know those who have hair they could do the job to smoother skin. Definitely faster recovery. Put it into my coffee every morning. Swirl, swirl, swirl. Tasteless, odorless, instantly dissolving, does not clump. Bubs does not clump and BUBS is built to the highest standards. No sugar or sweetener or filler. Third party tested NSF certified for sport. It was named the best collagen of 2024 by health.com it won a collagen award. It took home the collie. So I would say it's something like the cleanest most effective collagen peptide in the world according to the awards they won anyway. And they are also sell electrolyte supplements including creamer and more. And all their products are as clean and third party tested as you could possibly want. Live better longer. For a limited time only, our listeners are getting 20 off of Bubs naturals by using code just to check out just to Bubsnaturals.com and use code GIST and you're all set. After your purchase it will ask you where you heard about them. Please support the show and tell them that they just sent you.

[Chris Turner]

Beautiful.

[Mike Pesca]

Anonymous is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Hi, welcome back to Funny. You should mention our guest today is Chris Turner, who does things that I've never seen a comedian do. And in fact he's always a showstopper here at the Comedy Cellar. He can only close out a show. He's literally the guy you can't follow and it's because, well, we'll get into it. But among his many talents is been described as the best freestyle rapper in the game. The game being pretty narrowly defined as comedy nerd white audiences. No, he literally has been described as one of the best freestyle rappers alive. And what he does, I mean this is what I love doing. I love taking friends of mine to a show where there's a great comedy bill and the last guy is Turner and he just always blows people's minds. Welcome to Funny. You should mention in the jest.

[Chris Turner]

Thank you. What a lovely introduction.

[Mike Pesca]

It's true, it's true.

[Chris Turner]

But the problem with it is it makes. No matter how many people say, look, this guy's good, or you have to see this, they always go, well, clearly you're wrong. Clearly you've had a concussion. This person can't be good. They must be terrible. Have you seen them? Have you heard them? Do you understand what he said he's gonna do? That's not possible. Even for, like, a rapper who we've heard of, they can't make up raps.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Someone who looks like this.

[Chris Turner]

Very good.

[Mike Pesca]

Definitely cannot do it. And it is fun how every. I don't know. Has there ever been a show when you introduce the premise, I am one of the greatest rappers in Britain that doesn't get pushback or a laugh.

[Chris Turner]

So I just became an American citizen, and I think if I lean more into that. So I did a show in Jersey last week, and, you know, near the start, I'm like, oh, by the way, I'm one of you guys now. Then I introduced the rap, and obviously it's my show, so there's more of my fans there, but the general consensus was more like, oh, yeah, Fuck, yeah, You do this.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, okay.

[Chris Turner]

And I think if I'm more American, people go, well, of course. Of course you can rap. You're from here now.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, I see.

[Chris Turner]

But the vast majority of the time and up until this point of history, you know, in my. My British period, as I call, really was so I'd love to do a rap. Like, I mean, some of my most kind of clicky YouTube videos, just because there was a moment where I go, so I'm going to do a rap for you. And then a black woman goes, oh, hell no. And then. And the whole crowd react to that. And I go, no, seriously, I promise you it's going to be really good. What would you like a rap about? I like a rap about how you're going to suck. Okay, cool. Here's a rap about how I'm going to suck.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, that still happens. I saw one from a couple of months ago where cultural appropriation. Because you're stealing my culture, sir.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, that one wasn't even from the off. That was in the middle. After three suggestions, that was someone just like, cultural appropriation. I was like, cool, what are we culturally appropriating? She's like, no, you are. And I was like, yeah, but what am I appropriating? And she's like, black hip hop from the 90s. I was like, well, I'm glad you think I'm appropriating the greatest decade of hip hop. Rather than, well, everybody get up on the mic and I'm gonna rock and I'll rock it. Right. I'm teaching my 3 year old about hip hop at the moment. And hip hop is quite fun to teach in a very linear fashion. Like when you're teaching classical music or you're teaching death metal. Two other genres that we're teaching her. If you start from the beginning, it can be a little bit like with death metal, it's a little bit raw and weird. And then if you teach classical music from the start, it's like, well, no, actually start with Mozart. Start with really easy, tuneful stuff. And with hip hop, you can go, no. In the 70s, it was major key, uplifting dancehall, inflected on the beat, party tunes.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

And it's really easy for her to not rap along, but she can understand the rhymes. We showed her the halftime show. I don't know when this is coming out. So from Super Bowl 2025 with Kendrick Lamar.

[Mike Pesca]

The most recent Super Bowl. Yes, still.

[Chris Turner]

And she was watching it and she was really interested, but I'm like, I don't know if she's following what's being said here because it's fast and it's dense and when you play, you know, some Grandmaster Flash, she's like, yes, I know what you're saying.

[Mike Pesca]

Town, downtown, Holiday Inn. Thank you. You've oriented me.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, you can really help on that. But, Yeah, I appropriate 90s hip hop. Of course, I do the best. Why not do you?

[Mike Pesca]

Well, first of all, when the woman yelled out appropriation, was she intending it to mean a suggestion? And if not, did you?

[Chris Turner]

Then she was upset.

[Mike Pesca]

But you took that and you pretended it was a suggestion to help the show.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Because you, you basically forced a yes and onto her.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, I mean, one of the best ways to deal with hecklers. And I don't want us to skate past this bit of have it be me being like, yes, of course I culturally appropriate. Like, no, it would be cultural appropriation if I didn't love it, didn't practice it a lot, didn't appreciate it, and wasn't good at it.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

Right, Final corner of the room. This is your moment to shine. So far, these Suggestions have been 6.

[Chris Turner]

To 7 out of 10.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

I want you to blow it out the park with the most incredible imaginative.

[Chris Turner]

One so so far this evening.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

Cultural appropriation and.

[Chris Turner]

What did you say? Reverse racism.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

Reverse racism. My Gosh, look at these. These social studies graduates. I go to Columbia and I've come to a comedy show to ruin it for everyone. Cultural appropriation in reverse racism. All right, I wish I'd taken Brexit, but no. Okay, with the reverse racism one, give me the races. Who's being racist to who? And be precise. Yeah, see, I could be a dickhead as well. Spanish people being racist to white people.

[Chris Turner]

Lovely stuff.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

And then cultural appropriation. What culture should we appropriate in this? And again, be creative? Black hip hop in the 90s. Wait, so black hip hop in the 90s. Appropriating what? I am appropriating. Black hip hop. Isn't it great? Cool, guys. This is what we want at a 6:45 show. This is what we want.

[Chris Turner]

Spanish people being racist to white people.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

Appropriating 90s hip hop. Biggie Smalls and chicken tikka masala. Bill Nye the Science Guy's a bit of a dick. Satine, Kiva weed.

[Chris Turner]

Jesus Christ. This is.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

Hey, it's a heady brew. Let's see what we can do with it. Gina. Tell you what, tell you what. Usually I'm like, yo, drop that beat, white girl. I feel like that'll upset you, so. Please play the music. Yeah, look at that. I'm feeling this. You guys feeling this? Fingers crossed. I hope I'm good. Cause if this is shit, I am gonna get absolutely murdered after the show.

[Chris Turner]

But don't wor gonna be good.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

Lady who said weed?

[Chris Turner]

What's your name?

[DJ/Beatboxer]

Charay hip hooray 4:20, April 20 say charade's out there blazing every day Check it out, she needs to succeed Take the weed, pop it in the bong My advice, take heed don't puff too long, inhale too strong Otherwise your lungs can't There. That pong is difficult to remove Seeing all the clouds sativa no sleepy weed allowed I leave the indica there I need to stay awake Blow CL every day make no mistake, I best boast I'm chilling on the West Coast Snoop Dogg, Gin and Juice, they're my best bros Yes, I might be appropriate in all of the 90s death roll records ever so mighty I see Dr. Dre he's there with the synth he doesn't write his raps, but he could do it in a pinch seating, easy eating NWA passed away Rip A very sad day. Another guy who got shot was Biggie he was rolling in his car in Los Angeles city But he's from the east coast yet you know front and back he was beeping with the west coast, bro2pack. Sadly, he got shot. Pop Popper. Ironic. Why? Cuz he's called Big Popper. Yo, give me the money, give me all of the cash. Christopher Wallace ripping Brooklyn, putting it on the map. I know the frustration, cultural propagation. Coming over there from the chicken tikka masala nation. There is nightly a guy who doesn't like his nightly curry spicy. I'll walk in, I say, I know it sounds silly. Here in London city, I don't like the chili no spicy, just the salt and pepper. Can you take chicken tika? Go one better. Just mix the ketchup with the lovely cream.

[Chris Turner]

Oh, so good.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

I hope your kitchen is quite clean. I know what you do. Yes, you might vanish. I'll be racist to you. But then you are Spanish. You just flipping back to me like lights in prison. I split it. There we go, reverse racism. The guy's over there, he'll go one better. He'll racially abuse Minnie when he waits from a siesta. But sadly, he's sleeping, napping in the evening. He comes up, he's like, aye, aye, aye, got a feeling. Aye aye, aye aye. Referring first person I know, we make it up. There's never the rehearsing. I see the Spanish guy being rude to me. He calls me gringo and really I agree. And then I lift up the mustache from his eye. He's in disguise. It's motherfucking Bill Nye feeling so sick. He's black hair looking so slick. Bill Nye surprised me. You gave us a tip. I thought he's a nice old man. Apparently he's a dick.

[Chris Turner]

Now. I would say that the most important thing of those is at the first. But if I put that first and said I'm good at it, people would go, oh, you're very full of yourself. I guess you are American now.

[Mike Pesca]

Or a rapper, because, yeah, there's a certain amount of braggadocious.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, the braggadocious nature. Yeah. I'm probably one of the least braggadocious rappers. Which is bad. It's bad for your.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, actually, wasn't there that trend where Drake and definitely Kanye, they at least did. At least admitted to a little of their neuroses. They got so much credit for that. They're being so honest and all they're doing is being somewhere in the normal continuum.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. There was a period and then it's suddenly like, nah, I'm the best. Again, the best thing to do with a heckler for me, as someone who's not particularly brutal or Roasty is To just kind of make them seem silly. So if someone says something, most heckles are silly. Most heckles make no sense. If they shout something out, I'll just get them to repeat it. I'll be like, what was that? Sorry, what? Oh, that's not a very nice thing to shout at someone you don't know. And then everyone's just like, ah, you're being so patronizing towards them and it takes away all power. Also, if you get them to repeat it. That's the hack for any beginner comedians. Getting them to repeat the heckle gives you more time to think of a response.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Chris Turner]

Obviously, the best way to put down a heckler, I found, was always just. Just immediately. As soon as they say something, if your Persona is cheerful, cheeky British man, just call them a very rude word. Immediately just be like, shut up. And everyone goes, whoa, where did that come from? And then carry on with the fun thing and is he insane?

[Mike Pesca]

He had that in him.

[Chris Turner]

The best heckle advice I heard given, it's kind of as tangent to a story, was this comedian said to a bunch of comedians, I never get heckled on stage. They're like, yeah. He's like, why does no one heckle me? They go, because when you walk on stage, the first thing you do is you roll up your sleeves and they see all your prison tattoos and they go, okay, we'll be quiet.

[Mike Pesca]

So somewhere in between the continuum of the MS.13 guy and the British man.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. Who we can find? I came on the podcast to reveal my gang affiliations. Oh, no, where have they gone?

[Mike Pesca]

Um, so do you think part of the audience being on your side, aside from your expert execution of the quick put down and the repeat, is just that they have a little sympathy? People normally would think of the kind British man who's not bragging, why are you being so cruel to him?

[Chris Turner]

I mean, in the uk, the. If a heckler is accurate, if someone is being not funny and a heckler goes, you're shit, which is the best heckle. Like, there's not a better heckle than to just go, you're shit. Because if the audience agree with that heckle, which they probably do, if you're shouting that, the audience will be like, yeah, he's right. That's giving you a chance to rebut it and win the audience back. But if you are shit, you're probably not gonna win them back. Like, you're not gonna have a good rebuttal. And it's really hard to rebut heckle. It's hard to come up with a witty response to your shit other than to just go like, no, I'm not. Well, that's just your opinion. If you're not shit and they shout it, then you go, oh, I'm sorry you think that. I guess all this laughter isn't for you. And everyone was like, yeah, screw this guy. Why is he heckling? Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Or just call him a wanker. That usually.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, that does work, I think. In the UK I don't get sympathy because in the UK I present as slightly posher than your average English person, which is then fun to subvert. Because I'm from Manchester, I'm self identified as scum.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. So this, to translate it to the American audience. It's as if you were from Pittsburgh. I'm taking some coal city.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

It's as if you were from Appalachia.

[Chris Turner]

We were. We were a mill town.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Turner]

You know, cotton and mills and the cradle of the industrial revolution. If it wasn't for Manchester, you wouldn't have all the factories that, you know, made.

[Mike Pesca]

Made shit for years that gave you credit. Now you have to apologize for it. Sorry for the smokestacks and the child labor.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. Now. Now we have to be like, but look at all the music we made back in the 90s. The greatest period. Yeah. Not much good Mancunian hip hop, unfortunately.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Cole and then love will keep you together. So I have gone back and watched your early career and you were. And I found it sideways because I was just looking for one liner comedians and there you show up and. When you were 21, maybe earlier.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, Actually that video, weirdly, and I wish I hadn't done it. That video is me when I'm 19. That's my first year of doing standup. That's after about 15 shows I'd ever done.

[Mike Pesca]

Were you in university at the time?

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. And that's why I've stopped doing one liners, because I was able to write one liners. Because your brain processes difficult problems when you're not thinking about them. We know this about great thinkers. You know, think about the thing, think, think, think, think. And then go for a walk. And the brain will solve the problem and it will come to you.

[Mike Pesca]

Showers are great for that too.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. Yeah. And so I would be writing two and a half essays a week and then just when I wasn't writing, my brain would not be trying to solve the problem of the essay. It would just spit out these weird little joke thoughts and I would write them down. Then I'd tell them on stage and I had a pretty high hit rate, maybe like 50% of the things I thought were good jokes on stage. Which in one liner terms is like really? That's quite rare. I think when you are actively writing one liners, you have to write 10 to get one good one. There used to be a hit rate for people who are good at one liners and I never pursued it far enough to get to that level. But you know, I probably could do like a. Now from across my whole career, like the one liner jokes I've written, I could do maybe a 40 minute special of just one liners. But all of those would be front loaded early in my career. Some of them quite cheesy puns, but some of them like quite good jokes that I still would use now. And it was that activity of forcing your brain to really kind of think about something else and it would spit them out. And then when I left university, my brain didn't work that way anymore. But that video was when I was 19. And then every year as I got older, I changed the description. Cause I was like, oh, it's referencing the comedian now. So it's like 20 year old comedian Chris Turner. 21 year old comedian Chris Turner. Oh no, fuck. People are gonna watch it and be like, oh, it's 37. No, he's not. I should have left it as 19. If I change it now there. But then this is also helped by the fact that my Wikipedia lists my date of birth incorrectly. They're off by two years. They think I was born in 91, I'm born in 89.

[Mike Pesca]

So you. So you really appreciated all of the 90s hip hop stuff? I did.

[Chris Turner]

I mean in my last tour show.

[Mike Pesca]

You were there for Kris Kross. You were there for the Foo Snickens Backwards trousers.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, yeah. My last tour show, one of my favorite songs, and it's called 80s Kid. And it's where I berate a member of the audience. Being born in the 90s. I'm like, you suck. I'm an 80s kid. And then the chorus is me talking about how I was born in September 1989. And afterwards I'll still have people going, so you're not an 80s kid? And I'm like, yeah, you get the joke of this blustering man being like, I'm from the 80s. It was incredible. Neon lycra. Woo. We had a great time, you 90s suckers. Like, but you're born in the 90s. I'm like, oh, thanks for explaining the joke back to me. I'm not even a woman. And you're explaining my joke back to me. That is, when does that happen in.

[Mike Pesca]

The U.S. that would have meant that you missed Reagan, which technically that defines the 80s. You know, this theory that the decades are the decades, but they're also actual events. So the 60s started with Beatles on.

[Chris Turner]

The 60s is not the 60s.

[Mike Pesca]

The 60s is the two is not the 60s.

[Chris Turner]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My. My Reagan knowledge comes from my mother in law's hatred. And the Killer Mike song, which has the hook, I'm glad Reagan's dead, like, well, I guess he must have been a bad man.

[Mike Pesca]

Although, Killer Mike, you know, you could be several degrees better than Reagan and you still come in for the killer mike. He is a killer.

[Chris Turner]

High standards.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. So you were. Where do you study and what do you study?

[Chris Turner]

And I went to Oxford and I studied archeology and anthropology. Oh, right.

[Mike Pesca]

I saw you mention that.

[Chris Turner]

And yeah, I have, like some jokes about it. I think my debut Edin Hour.

[Mike Pesca]

Did you dig up any of them?

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, well, that was it. The debut Edinburgh Hour was like, listed as a show by an archaeologist who digs hip hop, which was fun. My favorite archaeology joke was me just going, I did archaeology at university because I thought it would be just like Indiana Jones. I got there, turns out you don't get a small Chinese sidekick. And then when people would. Some people would laugh, Some people would go, what? And I'd be like, hey, come on, guys, stop Asian hate. But also watch Temple of Doom. And it was fun. That's a good joke. And then it's great because the actor who played Short Round is now an Oscar winner and he's got that film that just came out for Valentine's Day. So he's back in the zeitgeist.

[Mike Pesca]

So that he never really left. He's his film credits of hundreds.

[Chris Turner]

No, but he left because he was Short Round and he was Goonies and then it was nothing. Then everything everywhere, all at once. And now.

[Mike Pesca]

That's right. You eat a monkey brain once and that's what you're forever associated with. Exactly. It's like the Fonzie of monkey brain eating. Chilled monkey brains. So I do notice that your Persona as a one liner, it's far different from what you have now when people develop your Personas, but vastly different. Vastly different. And I would also imagine that maybe you looked around at the people doing one liners and they often had a. Well, they put on an act.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, I love Stephen Wright.

[Mike Pesca]

Stephen Wright's a good example. Or Even Mitch Hedberg, I don't think he's deadpan, but. But obviously if you interacted with Mitch Hedberg in real life and, you know he was not on too many drugs at the time, it wouldn't be exactly like that. And so did you feel you had to adopt that Persona?

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, for anyone that aware, it's very deadpan. It's very much just kind of walking on and staring at the audience and being a bit weird, which there was a long tradition in the UK of. So Milton Jones is the most favorite, most famous one liner comedian at that time and was a kind of polar opposite to Tim vine, who was a one liner comedian who did puns and was very cheesy and would come on and would be like, hello there, here's another joke for you. Whereas Milton would come on and just look weird and he said really early on that he wasn't going anywhere in his career because people thought, you're weird. These are weird jokes. And then one night he put on a Hawaiian shirt and stuck his hair up and everyone went, oh, this guy's weird. And then he told a weird joke and they go, that makes sense.

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[Chris Turner]

The weird jokes mix with it. And it's like if you think of someone like Jimmy Carr versus Anthony Jeselnick, both dark one liner comedians, Jimmy Carr's coming at it from a. Oh, but he's a proper English gent in a suit. He's a very, very polite, posh man saying these horrible things.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. 40% of his jokes are pedophilia related.

[Chris Turner]

Whereas Jesonic comes on and is like kind of cool swagger. And I think both of those Personas could only exist in the country they exist in. That's not to say they don't cross over, but Jimmy coming up wearing a suit, telling cruel jokes in the UK works. If you were dressed as Jesnik in the UK telling cruel jokes, I think people would be like, why are you so mean? This is unnecessary cruelty in it.

[Mike Pesca]

Like, I think in the UK there probably would be an element of, who does this guy think he is?

[Chris Turner]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Because that is a more common sentiment in the UK than it is.

[Chris Turner]

Well, we don't like cool comedians in the uk.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. Saturday Night Live, they're cool. Monty Python are dork.

[Chris Turner]

Yes. Comedians aren't rock stars in the uk. A comedian should be like, everyone. Unless they are the weirdo outsider like Milton or Jimmy coming on and people going, well, of course this guy's a little bit posher. This guy is. Yeah, of course he's a cruel Upper class posh. I mean, that's it. He's not. But he's wearing a suit. So your average viewer's gonna go, oh, look at this. He's. Yeah, he's a smart posh boy. I think that's a defense mechanism. I know that when I started out I had very few jokes, so I thought, well, if I leave big pauses, I've got 10 minutes rather than five.

[Mike Pesca]

Maybe that's what I said to Steven Wright. I'm like, you know, by speaking slowly you probably were able to write three fewer joke a week.

[Chris Turner]

Oh, definitely.

[Mike Pesca]

But, but that's to say that online or comedians, joke density is many, many times more than to take nothing away from all other kind of comedians where it's Persona and storytelling, but the actual number of punch lines many times more.

[Chris Turner]

Well, I also just wasn't good with delivery and interacting with crowds at that point. I was like, if I just do this, I don't have to talk to them, I don't have to do any fancy delivery tricks. There was a comedian in the UK who, he got a one star review one year and then the next year he got a five star review. And all that had changed was his entire stage Persona. He had gone from just telling jokes to performing jokes. And the critics like, I don't know what happened here, but my God, this guy's funny with the same jokes that he had before because all he's doing is selling them.

[Mike Pesca]

But that counts. I mean that's, we go to be entertained. And one wasn't. And one wasn't.

[Chris Turner]

I was definitely very snobbish when I started out. You know, I was like, you should just tell the joke. If the joke's funny, it will get a joke, right? And I was very anti musical comedy. I'm like, well, why have you got a six string applause machine, a guitar, right? Oh, you, you play a thing and then they, they applaud. And the irony is now that I am a musical comedian, but were you.

[Mike Pesca]

Interested in rap back then?

[Chris Turner]

I was, yeah. From the age of 10. I was rapping from before I even knew comedy. And I was rapping separately to enjoying comedy. Like my, the albums I was given by my friend Ghalid who used to illegally download albums for all of us. And you'd say, I want this, I want the Nirvana album. And nirvana would have 45 minutes, but it'd be a 74 minute CD. It'd fill the rest up with rap or stand up.

[Mike Pesca]

This was pre Napster era.

[Chris Turner]

This is Napster.

[Mike Pesca]

Napster, right, okay.

[Chris Turner]

And so it would be Nirvana and then suddenly it would be Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle routines. And then it would be, you know, random rap. And so I'd be like, oh, this is cool. I mean also I kind of came into rap through this, that kind of multi pronged approach. So Ghalid would be putting on like Snoop and Dre. But then I also, when I was like 10 at school was getting, I loved, you know, kind of the new metal that was at the time. So Limp Bizkit is a kind of rap rock thing. Linkin park is rap corn. But then you've also got Eminem who's in that period of, you know, we're all 10 years old. There's Eminem, there's South park, there's this and Grand Theft Auto. It's this period of just over the top obscenity.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

Where Eminem is wearing his kind of Jason mask and his overalls and his chainsaw and you're like, what is this theater of like just absurd violence and cursing and saying things that we don't understand. But it's cool like when you're 10. I remember we looked through the dictionary to find all the rude words because that was what we could do at school. But you can get the dictionary and look through it and I found all these words and they and I can find there in the dictionary and they're rude.

[Mike Pesca]

And we'll be back with a little more of Chris Turner on Funny youy should mention.

[Sponsor Voice]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated Assets are like etc ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment, recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures New Year, New Vibe.

[Ad Voice]

Want the warmth of a drink, that smooth little kick, but also want to wake up tomorrow feeling amazing. That's where Arcay comes in. Arcay is the world's first zero proof spirits brand and they invented the warm molecule, giving you the burn of whiskey or tequila without a drop of alcohol. Start the year strong with 28 bold zero proof spirits. Zero calories, zero sugar, zero regrets. So you can celebrate big and still keep your resolution solutions on track. Start the year right. Join the Zero Proof Revolution at rkbeverages.com.

[Mike Pesca]

We'Re back with improvisational hip hop maestro Chris Turner. Do you think if you grew up in an era where all the obscenity was not something you had to look up or could look up, it was just presented to you and you were inundated with it, your formation would be different?

[Chris Turner]

I don't know. I mean, how do you. All the multitude of possibilities. Because another part of it was my mum would constantly take these albums away from me. So you can't listen to this. This says parental advisory. This is rude. What are you listening to? And that's then naughty. That's forbidden fruit. I'm like, okay, well, if I can't listen to the rap, I can make up the rap. So I can make up my own raps. I can, you know, I've spoken about this a bunch of times. I'm also 10, 11, 12. I've got no one to talk to about rap because there's no Internet really, to look this up. There's no friends my age who care about rap.

[Mike Pesca]

Not Galid. Or Galid was in the.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, but Galid is like one of three black guys in my whole year at school. Galid's not hanging out and talking to the white guy. Gleed's also a Muslim. The other Muslim guys in our class who are kind of from India, they're. They're hanging out with them. Khalid's from Sudan, so he's also hanging out with like the other African guys, but there's only three of them in that year. They're not talking to the weird white guy who's like, hey, I really like that Dr. Dre song you bought. All my friends and me are into Nirvana. And I mean, they all love Pearl Jam. I'm a big anti Pearl Jam guy, so I've got no one to talk to about it. And I just assume that all rats is made up. Anyone Else who grew up freestyling grew up knowing that this is what you do. Mike Yard, host at the Cellar. Yeah, Every. Every time I freestyle, he'll remind me. He'll go. I mean, he goes on stage afterwards, and he'll be like, fuck, Chris Turner. He's, you know, he's like, I'm from East New York, and he can freestyle rap better than me. I hate that.

[Mike Pesca]

He's like, I've been in jail. And Fritz doesn't even.

[Chris Turner]

He tells me, he goes, growing up, he'd hang out in the hallways of the apartment buildings where they lived in East New York, and everyone would be freestyling. And he goes, and I wasn't very good, but he's like, that's what we're all doing. And I'm like, yeah, if you grow up freestyling in an apartment building with other people freestyling, you understand that what you're doing is made up. You learn that rap. That Naz is writing stories about his life. I am listening to this, going, oh, this is all made up. That's what rap is. Rap is making up a story. So I'm like, how can he just make this up? That's impossible. You listen to Andre 3000. How. How can anyone make up something this complex and this brilliant? This must be the smartest person ever. He's so smart. And already at 10, 11, you know, I'd been bumped up a year at school. I had, like, extra credit all the time. I was told I had, like, gifted children, all that kind of stuff. I was like, putting all these classes. Everyone was always telling me, you're really smart. You're really smart. I'm like, not as smart as these guys. I've got to do that. And so, you know, for eight years until I go to university, and really, I mean, I'm sure there was a period along the time when I finally learn, but for the first few years of freestyling, I didn't know that. It's not. You're not supposed to be able to do it, right? You're not supposed to be able to free. No. Freestyling should be as good as written, right? So I didn't have that limitation of, no, you can't do this. Because when you tell someone they can't do it, it's like, oh, okay. I guess you can't. You place that limitation on yourself.

[Mike Pesca]

Another thing that strikes me is you're right. Most of the people who are experts are very good in the field. The usual way is to be steeped in it. And to have absorbed it at an earlier age. I mean, this is very common. Right. Someone who's a musical prodigy often will be have musical instruments in the house or look at professional athletes. It's not just the genes. It's the fact that they were trained by maybe a professional athlete father when they were young. But there is another category of, I'm going to say genius that seems sui generis. And they just come from. No example of that, I'm thinking. I was trying to. So Paul Schrader grows up in. It's not Amish, but it's an Amish like, community. And he's not allowed to watch a movie until he's 17 or 18.

[Chris Turner]

Just to say one of my favorite Wikipedia articles. And this is when I realize when people go, how do you know so much? I'm like, well, I don't actually absorb it. How do I have a favorite Wikipedia article? There's a list of the Amish communities. There's like, you know, 20 plus ranking them by what they shun.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, so it's Amishness.

[Chris Turner]

It's a list of the Amishest to the Amish.

[Mike Pesca]

Less. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Turner]

And they all, all of them use washing machines. There's not a single one that doesn't use washing machines. But then it ranks and there's like Amish communities. It's just like, oh, they use everything except widescreen TVs.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. Well, zippers are still a little. A little controversial.

[Chris Turner]

It's just, I think that's so fun that you can still be Amish when you're like, oh, no, we use cars. Yeah. But no, no, no, no, no. Halogen light bulbs. No. Come on. Never, though.

[Mike Pesca]

We have the Internet, but it's only dial up. As Yahweh intended.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And that list of Amish communities, from the Amishest to Amish list is. The last line is. And they also shun communities two through 18. And then. And then number two is they also shun communities three through 18. Yes. They shun the other communities. So, yeah, there is this way of not knowing what the rules are supposed to be. Allows you to have breakthroughs or it doesn't usually work. The person usually doesn't have it. The innate ability or the drive or whatever it is. But it does happen. And you're saying something like that happened with you.

[Chris Turner]

I think so, yeah. And then when I, when I compare it to, you know, how I guess you should be able to freestyle, which is you're training the muscle. Yeah. The way I picture it is the Only way you can wiggle your ears is if you were wiggling your ears since you were a baby. Because the muscle that wiggles your ears when you're a baby, the size of that muscle to the size of your ears matches. So you can use it. And if you keep using it, you can keep wiggling ears.

[Mike Pesca]

Can you speculate as to the adaptive advantage to that?

[Chris Turner]

Well, that's it. This is my evolutionary anthropology degree from Oxford University. Watch it fail me. No, in the same way that, you.

[Mike Pesca]

Know, and the ears are cartilage, so we can't even study the bone right. There's nothing we don't know, the wigglers or the Wiggless.

[Chris Turner]

There's so much leftover stuff. I mean, the thing is we, you know, animals can move their ears, they can pin their ears back, they can do all that. So that's, that's where that's from. Sorry. If you believe in creationism, you're probably not listening to two New Yorkers.

[Mike Pesca]

Imagine if you did though, and you thought, okay, here's what God did on the. Not the eighth day, seventh and a half. He put the ear wiggling gene in certain babies, but with the caveat that you could only keep doing it if you thought to do it when you were one month old.

[Chris Turner]

And so I think with me it's that like the brain and you can see this with language. I mean, I'm such an idiot. I remember one time seeing a child speak English and then speak Spanish. I was like, that child's two. It can speak Spanish. I can't speak Spanish and I'm much older than that. Oh, I'm an idiot. But if you start learning language at a young age, it's so much easier because the brain just kind of adapts to those sounds. Simpler. I mean, Chinese is a kind of very phonetic language. If you don't learn that really early on, you, you kind of are fucked. It's so much harder to learn Chinese because to me this sounds like Shu, Shu, Shu. Shu and shu are the same.

[Mike Pesca]

And yet 1.6 billion people do it.

[Chris Turner]

Like, oh, he just said a really offensive sentence.

[Mike Pesca]

Wait, wait, no. To be. We should issue an apology. What Chris meant was sho shoe, shoe. And now, sir, the shoe is on the other foot. I do I. There's one or two questions I want to ask you about the early very deadpan one liner days. I have talked to and heard from comedians Dimitri Martin. They enjoy their. They have mathematic minds and they like looking at jokes as a puzzle to be solved. So it surprises Me that you are saying that most of the jokes didn't occur to you that way. They were spontaneous thoughts.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

How much crafting and refining went into taking those thoughts?

[Chris Turner]

Well, you know, so, I mean, I love Demetri Martin. I. I never. I don't look at Demetri Martin and go, oh, yeah, those are jokes that I could write. I was much more like. I would watch Jesnik and be like, oh, I could guess what the punchline would be, whereas Dimitri, I couldn't. One of my writing exercises starting out was I would listen to other comedians jokes and I'd try and guess the punchline. And if I guessed a punchline and that wasn't the punchline, I would then tell that joke. So, you know, say. I mean, one of the ones. I remember Jesnik had one which was my. My girlfriend's dad said we couldn't sleep together. You know, and then his punchline was something else. And I was like, oh, the punchline for that should be, my girlfriend's dad wouldn't let us sleep together. Which is a shame because he's very attractive. Right. You know, and so I'm like, oh, great, cool. That's my joke now, because that's an.

[Mike Pesca]

Upended expectation, the ambiguity of the pronoun.

[Chris Turner]

You listen to a setup and then if you came with a punchline, then you tweak a setup. So you'd find a different way to say it. But yeah, I mean, you'd figure out the words around, like, you want the economy of words in a one liner. One of my favorite jokes from when I started was the way I wrote it was the opposite way to how it worked on stage. So the joke as it became was, I've just got myself a laminator. It's a machine that kills baby sheep. But if you tell, like, if you tell that joke as I've got a machine that kills baby sheep, it's a laminator. The crowd groan. They go, oh, we see what you did there. Whereas if you. If you upend the expectation, which is, we've got a laminator, they go, we know what that is. That's a machine. That. And this is how the brain works with jokes. And this is why timing is actually the most important thing in telling, you know, telling jokes. You want your hitting of the word kills baby sheep to fall where their brain hits. Yeah, we know. It's a machine that puts plastic on paper. When you say kills baby sheep, they're not hearing you say that. They're hearing their own brain say, puts plastic on It. And they hear you say, kill them. And they go, wait, what? That surprised me.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

This is the same with the. The lucky blue suit joke, which I'm sure we can. I can do the one minute version. It's my favorite joke. It's an old pub joke. And this woman goes to the funeral parlor. She says to the funeral director, this is my husband. He died. He's wearing a black suit, but it is his dream to be buried wearing a sky blue suit. I have no money. If you could do something for me, I'd be tremendously grateful. The funeral director says, come back in a week. She comes back a week later, her husband's lying there beautifully embalmed, wearing a sky blue suit. And she goes, oh, my gosh, I can't, I can't. Thank you so much, but really, this looks gorgeous. I cannot afford this. I told you, I have no money. And the funeral director says, please don't worry. You would never believe this, but the day after you came in, another woman brought in her husband. He was wearing a sky blue suit, but it was his dream to be buried wearing a black suit. So I just switched the heads. And the, the. The beauty of that joke is that it's just because I say heads, not suits. And your brain goes, that's not the.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

Word you're meant to say.

[Chris Turner]

What? How silly.

[Mike Pesca]

But then congratulates itself on understanding.

[Chris Turner]

And you know, there's more to it. There's the imagery that you're painting and there's the solemnity of the situation. There's all these things that come into it being a great joke. But it's one of my favorite jokes for that reason, I think it illustrates, because I think a non comedian would go, so I just switch the heads. And you go, and you've ruined the joke now because you telegraphed that that was the sentence that people want. They go, no, the punchline's gonna be here. You put the punchline here. It really catches them off guard.

[Mike Pesca]

Also with laminator and switch the heads. Although we say punchline because this is the phrase. You didn't punch it, you backed away from it, right?

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, yeah. You punch it. You get the. You get the.

[Mike Pesca]

I switch the heads.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

One of your jokes from that period I think is brilliant. Now you start off by saying, in America there is a phrase possession.

[Chris Turner]

Oh, that's a great joke. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

So it's really true that. So we'll play the joke and then I'll come back and say, so question one. It's really an American phrase. They don't say that in Britain.

[Chris Turner]

There's an American saying possession is 9/10 of the word. I think the reason that it is a saying.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

That would be known in the uk. I think I would say it's an American saying for the rhythm of the joke. Yeah. Just to add there's a saying. There's an American saying. To me that seems to mean I have to. There's a saying among. They've just heard. I haven't heard it and I don't remember it.

[Mike Pesca]

But so, so, yeah, that makes sense. They add a little bit. And as we just heard, possession. Now, I said, that is a brilliant joke. And then I said, wait a minute. And I wrote out possession and it's goddamn 10 letters.

[Chris Turner]

Perfect. I would. I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't.

[Mike Pesca]

This is my question.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

So when you thought of it, when it occurred to you, did you not know it was 10 letters? Did you?

[Chris Turner]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't have known. And this would be one that came to me completely.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Turner]

It would have just been. I would have gone, possessure is 9/10 of the word. I know. I would have grappled over pronouncing it possessio.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

Or possessio to try. Because one problem with the British accent is possessure kind of sounds like possession, whereas I think in America it'd be like possessure, possession. I think there's more of a distinction there. There's a British rapper called Central C who's very big currently, and he says the reason he's so big in America is that he doesn't end his bars, his lines in a hard to interpret way. He's never gonna end on like a word that Americans might not fully understand or could sound like another word to an American ear. So it's very brilliant. Whereas most English rappers rapping in a kind of East London accent, then they're gonna. Americans might be like, I can't quite get my ear around that.

[Mike Pesca]

In terms of the mental process, you get five suggestions. Is that the platonic ideal? How'd you decide that? Five.

[Chris Turner]

It'S the right amount. Four, Even numbers aren't nice.

[Mike Pesca]

True.

[Chris Turner]

Even numbers aren't good. You always have an odd number of cheeses on a cheese plate.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Chris Turner]

3. Seems too few people can remember three things. I know that people are impressed that I just remember the five things I was gonna say that they go, how do you even remember that? You think that's the impressive thing? I forget one of the things all the time. But then people like that because it's fun when I go. I go, what was the fifth suggestion? And someone shouts out, you know, jelly donut. And then I go in on that, and they go, wow, you definitely couldn't have prepared that because you forgot it. Five is nice when it's time constraints. I do have to do four because it does. It does reduce it. I mean, you know, when I did my Vegas run, there were times when they're like, could you do four suggestions to make this shorter? And that was an instance where I had to put more thought into it because they'd always. The director would say, end the rap on the funniest one. I'm like, well, the funniest one is always the rudest one. Or it's to do with booze or sex or whatever.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Turner]

So, like, that was always my direction there. Kind of dumbing it down in a way. Because maybe it's the late show and you need to go, as in the late show of the. You know, the run. You do two shows a night in Vegas. It might be a case of someone says chlamydia, because what I like to do. And you'll notice this watching videos, if someone goes rap about Ukrainian herpes. My interest is not in rhyming Ukrainian herpes, okay? My interest is in rapping about Ukrainian herpes. Anyone can rhyme Ukrainian herpes. Anyone can get a rhyming dictionary, learn all the words, and rhyme them. And that's what most freestyle rappers do, right?

[Mike Pesca]

And you do exercise to get that. It's including burpees.

[Chris Turner]

It's a parlor. Very good, Very good. It's a. It's a parlor trick. Whereas freestyle rap, as I see it, is exploring the topic we're rapping about. Whether you're doing that in a hallway with your friends, you're rapping about your life or your day, or you're wrapping about your buddy. You can see that with mine, I like to rap about them. So I'll bring up the topic.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

I'm not necessarily rhyming it so you don't get the pop. The pop is when you go, oh, he said it. If you say at the start of the sentence doesn't get the pop, you take off and explore. And that's when the creativity comes in. In Las Vegas Run, it was like, finish on the last rude one and don't rap about it. Just set it up and be like, you know, I could use it. Antibiotics, but still can't get rid of. That's why. Make sure you don't get chlamydia. And then they go, oh, my God.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

He did that thing.

[Chris Turner]

I'm like, that's so basic. And even anyone can do that. You. You dogs just salivating at the bell. But.

[Mike Pesca]

But sometimes you do naturally end on the mic drop reference to.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

But then if that. That's not me trying. That's if it comes about naturally.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

And you can tell I like it because if you watch me when I'm rapping, if my final thing is me being like. Like my big clip where it's like 19 million views, I'm like, they call it a sausage because someone. I drop out sausage when I'm doing something like that. That's me. I'm never thinking about that in advance. It's me just going, oh, yeah, look at that. Look how I looped that back in a clever way rather than from the start. I knew I was going to end on that. If I know I'm going to end on it, it's less satisfying for me if someone says something in advance and I go. When I'm getting the suggestion. If I go, well, the obvious joke is this, and I'll save that to the end and I'll set it up. And there's the obvious joke. And they go, ah. Inside. I'm going, well, yeah, because I cheated. I thought of it and then I said it rather than freestyling, which is. I didn't think of it. And it was still amazing.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Except every other comedian, when they think of their closer, is a joke that they know will work. Because it's just the difference between the improvising aesthetic and what you value and the standard comedy aesthetic, which is, let us work out this joke until we know it gets a good reaction. You're very proud of that. You haven't cheated. Ali Wong did not cheat when she ended her show with, you know, the mic drop moment. Bringing it all back and tying it all back. Even though she didn't think about that just once, you know, she. She did it and executed it perfectly. Yeah.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, I guess I'm the. The person, you know. Who are we performing for? I. I think this is a question. Ask all comedians. Who are you performing for? Are you performing for the audience? Are you performing for yourself? Are you performing for your dad? I'm performing for me. And that's one of my flaws as a comic. The greatest comics are performing for the audience. I think, like, big examples are. Jerry Seinfeld is performing for himself. I think if you look at comedians over time, there are comedians who began performing for the audience and then ended Performing for themselves. I think that's how you can see. Oh, it gets less good. I think you have to be performing for the audience to be. I think. I'm sure there's plenty of examples about this, but I'm performing for myself and that's my problem. And it's like, why would people come up to you and they're like, that was amazing. That was the best thing we've seen. If your instinct is to go, I'm so glad, thank you. Yes, my instinct is to go, ugh, you should have seen the last show. I'm trying to have fun. I want to enjoy myself. So if someone goes, blah, blah, blah, and I go, oh, yeah, what do you think about that? Oh, why do you like that? Yeah, really great. Sometimes that's me trying to squeeze the suggestion for more. If someone goes birthday, great. I could do a rap out of birthday, but brilliant. How old? How are you feeling about that? Okay. Existential dread upon approaching your 40s.

[Mike Pesca]

And then you have.

[Chris Turner]

That's a much better suggestion because most suggestions are bad and I have to massage them a little bit.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I notice now you're making rules. Nothing about being British. No animals. And what was the third one?

[Chris Turner]

Or just be creative. There's no food or animals.

[Mike Pesca]

No food, but sometimes someone will throw it at you.

[Chris Turner]

Specific food or animals I will be fine with. If someone's like a spectacled bear, great, lovely, fantastic. If someone is.

[Mike Pesca]

But then I think I saw someone did the spiny anteater or some variation of scorpion. Yeah, dogs are the worst.

[Chris Turner]

Yes. Yeah, dogs and pizza, it's a common thing. But if someone is like the autolan, I'm like, brilliant. Well, that's food and an animal. But I will rap about it because that's niche and fun. Although I feel like the Ortolan was something I knew about 20 years ago and now everyone knows it. In the same way I feel about Axolotl. Axolotl was my favorite animal when I was 8 years old. And everyone's like, what the fuck is that? Now everyone knows what axolotls are. There's plushies of them everywhere. And it really annoys me because it makes 8 year old me look like an absolute loser. This basic bitch 8 year old who was like, I like the smiling salamanders from Mexico. No, fuck off. I was on those way, way before anyone else.

[Mike Pesca]

When you think of a rhyme, do you think of it in pairs or will you. Well, how often do you think of the pair and how often do you just say the first line? And then challenge yourself.

[Chris Turner]

Say the second one. So this is the challenge, because most, again, early, when you're starting to freestyle rap, you're thinking, I need to rhyme this word. So I'm gonna say this. This word first. Now I'm like, I'll just say the word when I think of it, and a word will come that rhymes with it. It's not. I say this all the time. It's not chess, or you're thinking five moves ahead. It is tennis. I will say I play neither of these sports. Chess a sport. Sure. Look, if you have things at your bum vibrating to take or move to make it a sport, the ball comes and you play that shot, and then you maybe try and predict what the opponent's going to do. But if you do that, they're going to catch you out. So you just play that shot. And I think, you know, I don't know if that's correct. Is Novak Djokovic going after this? They'll do this after this? No, I think, you know, the. I mean, I'm saying Novak Djokovic because he's the, you know, the great. That's still playing. I do not like him. That's an unoriginal take, to be like, you know, I find Novak Djokovic fundamentally unlikable.

[Mike Pesca]

You want to be around people who do vaccinate. Is this what you're saying?

[Chris Turner]

I want to be around someone who's Spanish with one very big bicep Nadal. I think you're just like, he's going, I'm going to play this shot as well as I can, and then I'm going to react to yours, right? And I trust that I can return whatever shot you do. And I think that's me. I think I'm like, oh, no. I'll find the next thing. I illustrate this. Like, in Lord of the Rings, there's a bit where they're. They're running and the bridge is falling, and as each stone falls, they jump off it just in time to the next one. Or a Looney Tunes, where they're running off the thing and they're laying the road underneath them as they run. That's the closest thing. They're not laying the road there. I'm going to jump onto that one. No, they're just going, let's just keep going. And if we think about it, we're going to fall, but if we keep going, we're fine.

[Mike Pesca]

But in Looney Tunes, when they run over air, they're fine until they look down. And when they look down, that's probably an analogy to what you do.

[Chris Turner]

You're in flow state until you acknowledge you're in flow state.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. Wile E. Coyote was in flow state. That's what he was.

[Chris Turner]

There are moments in the rap. These are my favorite moments. These are the worst moments in the rap. There are moments in the rap where I want to stop the rap and go, did you all just hear that? Did you all just see what I did? I don't think enough of you appreciated that mental link and that pun I just put in. Rewind the tape, dj. Listen, listen. There we go. Why are you all booing? Why don't you like me anymore?

[Mike Pesca]

Do you have. Do you have a philosophy, or do you think that there's. Are the rhymes better when it's an end rhyme versus what they would call in poetics and enjambment, which, you know, across the bars. Yeah, would help.

[Chris Turner]

I mean, no, but that's. That's just a meth. Because everyone goes, oh, but how can you rhyme? Everything rhymes. Every. Every word contains letters. Every word contains different sounds. You know, enjoyment doesn't have to rhyme with. It has ombe in it as well. Also, you can spell it. You could also bring up the fact that it's French and there's all these things, you know, I mean, the illustration for this is. Snoop Dogg loves to say izzle at the end of words. He also loves to spell words. California. Well, that doesn't rhyme with hey. Yeah, it does because it's spelled California. Oh, brilliant. You know, I should have warned you. I'm coming up from California. You know, there's so many different ways you can do a thing. You can split things now for an audience. Yes. If it's a later show, they are gonna like it more when you hit the word at the end. And the end, if you split the word over the two bars, they're gonna go, wait, Izzy rhymed it. Oh, he has rhymed it right. It's just not as immediate, and they'll.

[Mike Pesca]

Maybe accept it until your next end. Rhyme and rhymes are punch lines, I guess, in your game. All right, I want to do one. You want to do one?

[Chris Turner]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

You got it in you. Do you want. Do you want to do this with five suggestions? Would that be. Would that work for you in context?

[Chris Turner]

Okay, so have you prepared your suggestions?

[Mike Pesca]

I have not. The reason I open this up is just. This is the notes function of my phone. So I'm just going to get some titles from recent notes. For instance, my first recent note is Chris Turner. That wouldn't be good.

[Chris Turner]

That's me.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Turner]

Love how you didn't capitalize my surname. Wow.

[Mike Pesca]

All right. So one I have is something called Springer. Jerry Springer. Is that good?

[Chris Turner]

I've interviewed Jerry Springer is.

[Mike Pesca]

Before he died.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. No, I did it with a crystal ball and burning sage.

[Mike Pesca]

Then I had. Not Jewish. So you want to just take that as goyim. Okay. Then I have Cabinet nominees.

[Chris Turner]

Great.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, this. I was going to say trials of the century, but that rhymes with. Oh, here's a good one. Because it's not Legal Zoom. Do you know what that is?

[Chris Turner]

Vaguely.

[Mike Pesca]

It's the service that people use to not hire a lawyer is.

[Chris Turner]

Because they had that AI court case recently.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Hispaniola. That's in there.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah, that's the ship in it. Whose ship was it?

[Mike Pesca]

No, I think that's the name of the island that the Dominican Republic and Haiti was called. Yes, yes. So as a unit, Dominican Republic in Haiti or Hispaniola, also called the Antilles. How many is that?

[Chris Turner]

That's five. All right, so we had. We had not Jewish goyim, Jerry springer cabinet nominees, LegalZoom and Hispaniola. I will say these are five good suggestions. And by good, I mean ones that.

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

I would be like if there were.

[Chris Turner]

Two of these in a show, I'm like, fine.

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

I'm gonna lean heavily on the other.

[Chris Turner]

Three to make this rap. Good. These are. We don't have an audience to entertain here, so this is just me. Oh, sorry, Michelle's here.

[Mike Pesca]

Wait, Good suggestions. Cause they're bad suggestions, you're saying.

[Chris Turner]

No, they're good suggestions because they're hard suggestions.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Turner]

I feel like you. Because if you watch enough of my videos, you can figure out what I will find it hard to rap about. The answer is specific sports people from America's past, and I will really struggle on those. No, these are. These are good. They're not.

[Mike Pesca]

I think Hispaniol is the Greater Antilles. It's also known as that. I think.

[Chris Turner]

I mean, the Dutch had some Antilles as well.

[Mike Pesca]

They all had Antilles.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. But then, you know, they lost them. So I guess that's their Antilles heel.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, that. Actually. I had an Aunt Tilly, and now she's. She's my late Aunt Tilly's. Like the Dutch. We lost our ant Tilly's. So do we have this beat?

[Chris Turner]

Oh, yeah, we have a beat. Oh, shit. Can you pump that up in my. My phones, please, dj? Well, this is a freestyle about Cabinet nominees, Legal Zoom, about Hispaniola, about Goyim and about Jerry Springer. I don't know which one to start with. Let's go with number one. This is lovely stuff.

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

So many you could bringer Let me pop off the dome. I can see Jerry Springer. Get this, no tricks up the sleeve. If you start a fisticuff then I'm shouting out Steve, come up here. That security opposite of purity. People look at these and they're trying to be figure out DNA and the fatherhood. When I watched the show I thought that it was rather good I watched Jerry let me say I'm spitting some Born in the uk he's a British citizen True fact born in Highgate tube in the Blitz in the 1940s I've proved that I've read his Wikipedia interviewed on stage about in 2015 that's a real age he said to me after we did the show Chris, I really want you to know you're a good interviewer. Better than most. That is true. I'm not just braggadocious boasting about that but sadly rip you were saying? Did you interview imposthumously? Of course it couldn't happen. Why can't provide it I'm not a psychic. Yeah got a nice hit when I write the mic it's incredible. You know they're split in two like Hispaniola yo Haitians gonna hate not been doing very well on the late got a president that shot the by the people coming from Colombia or some other South American that's fun for you but other side yeah still in the plan they be coming up Republic of Dominican they can split it down there like the hispy hibiscus in my drink makes it ever so fizzy I can see people on the keeping in touch Got my nice little pancake weed smoking Dutch saying oh yeah Jaco Graeta and Chiles don't make a mountain out of the molehills that's chilli. I think that's some type of anthill pun. If you want to be an attorney then Sean, you gotta make sure you leave some mental room or really AI's gonna take your jaws Cause legal zoom is swooping in like an eagle. Soon they're gonna take it clear out the whole judge courtroom. I sound like I'm from Georgia cuz last night I watched juror number two that was pretty hot. It's in Georgia cause it's in the courtroom with the judge Legal zoom got analysis they won't budge Reading all the outtakes from all of the rulings Got the freestyle flow to leave you drooling and now we're gonna see the goyim. Even though I am one myself, I can't really avoid him. I can prove this. Gone through this. My penis not Jewish. Never read the Torah. Never gone.

[Chris Turner]

Screw this.

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

Never had money when I turned 12 or 13. No bar mitzvah. I'm keen. I was never going to all of the yeshiva. All of the stuff, best, believe you. One more thing. Soothing, like an ointment. The opposite of all Trump's cabinet appointments.

[Chris Turner]

I was getting scared, like, every day. Seriously, is our health ruled by rfk?

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

Put that sharp sword back in the scabbard.

[Chris Turner]

What's next?

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

Oh, Tulsi Gabbard, she be coming up there not sparing your blusher. She's like, actually, I really, really like Russia. Oh, Tulsi, don't insist.

[Chris Turner]

Insult me. All of Trump's fans.

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

Yeah, they're doing somersaltsy. And don't forget Elon. We want. He's unappointed. Like, three plus won the fourth whole.

[Chris Turner]

Thing of the whole, what they called Congress or the House.

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

Yeah, we got an impress.

[Chris Turner]

That's the shit. Yeah. You know, we set them straight. Cabinet appointments, going past it every day. I mean, I've not got a punchline for the end of that, but does.

[Mike Pesca]

The music have to end?

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

No, it doesn't, but I'm done.

[Mike Pesca]

These were the rhymes that Chris Turner wrought. Thank you. And that's my final thought.

[Chris Turner]

Oh, there we go. Very good. Very good.

[Mike Pesca]

It's freaking amazing. This is why it's a magic trick.

[Chris Turner]

And I will also say, I mean, we were talking about how a freestyle rap in front of a crowd is different because I have to end with a finish. And even if, like, I'll throw in a finish shot if I don't have a line to finish on, sometimes I just finish with a rhyme or whatever. But I might be like, you know, I can cue them to just clap and cheer of my final line by being like, so that was the rap that we did, you know, and then they'll start going like, woo. You know, and then I'll say whatever I want, the end. Or I'll just be like, you know, like, that's how we spit. It's a freestyle rap from a Brit. And they're like, in here, it doesn't matter. I can just be like, yeah, whatever, I'm done. Which is like, when I was live streaming, I used to just, like, sometimes I let the rats peter out because I'm like, you all know I can do this. Who am I proving it?

[Chris Turner (Freestyle Rap)]

I'm not proving it.

[Chris Turner]

To anyone. I'm not gonna artificially create a punchline to entertain.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Chris Turner]

The. The other you don't have.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. You didn't come in and say at one point, this interview, watch this nerdy white guy actually spit bars.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. No, those are fun to rap about.

[Mike Pesca]

Did you. And you liked it. You enjoyed that?

[Chris Turner]

No, I enjoy doing it. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Turner]

I enjoy the act of doing it. If I'm not like, again, I don't care whether that's good or not. I enjoy doing it and the creativity that flows forth. And, you know, also, I mean, again, it's the thing. People go like, oh, you did this. Rap about this, this, this. And they assume I remember because everyone thinks I'm. I've got photographic memory. I have the worst memory. I have a terrible memory. The way my brain works is I do not remember things. I don't remember hardly anything. I mean, my wife remembers everything.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, it's good to have that in a relationship. It is. Your one's the hard drive and one's processor. Yeah.

[Chris Turner]

Yeah. My gift is not my gift. My gift every year from her is a photo album. And it's nice to look through. And she'll be like, this is last year. I'm like, I don't remember any of this. And for some reason, the way my brain works, I just don't. I don't store things like that. Information will kind of come up in the raps, but. Yeah, but I'm blacking out when I'm doing the raps, so I'm. I don't remember what I've said about.

[Mike Pesca]

I mean, do you think hypnosis would work with you if you were asked to rap during it? Maybe you could dredge up memories. Maybe it's all there.

[Chris Turner]

Maybe it is. I wonder anyone who wants to hypnotize me and do it. I used to freestyle to hypnotize. That beat is such a good one to Freestyle, too. It's 101bpm. It's a good beat.

[Mike Pesca]

Chris Turner appears at the Comedy Cellar. He also has. And this is why I'm reading it off an iPhone. You could hear his new podcast.

[Chris Turner]

It made it sound like he also has an iPhone.

[Mike Pesca]

He has an iPhone. He's got a vcr. His wife gives him photo albums. He recognizes most of the people.

[Chris Turner]

You know, there's a 50 Cent song which. Where he lists the things he has in his car, which is stash box, cash box, Xbox, fax machine, phone. And I always heard that and went, he's boasting about a fax machine. What's he doing? Drive by Admin.

[Mike Pesca]

That's right. He has to. And also is the people that he's dealing with, they're insisting on the facts. They're not scamming.

[Chris Turner]

That's why he got shot multiple times.

[DJ/Beatboxer]

We said by facts.

[Mike Pesca]

We do not take PDFs motherfucker. The name of Chris Turner's new podcast is Godforsaken. Or maybe God Forsaken with Chris Turner. Chris, thank you so much.

[Chris Turner]

Thank you very much.

[Mike Pesca]

The Gist is produced by Cory Wara. We had help today from Leah Yan. Kathleen Sykes helps me with the Gist list. Jeff Craig does so much with the video and the socials and the visual. He's a master of the visual in this a primarily audio form. Michelle Pesca also works with the visuals, but is mostly the visionary improve. And thanks for listening.

[Marketing Voice]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.

[Mike Pesca]

New Year New vibe. You want the warmth of a drink, that smooth little kick. But you also want to wake up tomorrow feeling amazing. That's where RK comes in. RK is the world's first zero proof spirits brand and they invented invented the warm molecule, giving you the burn of whiskey or tequila without a drop of alcohol. Start the year strong with 28 bold zero proof spirits, zero calories, zero sugar, zero regrets. So you can celebrate big and still keep your resolutions on track. Start the year right. Join the Zero Proof Resolution at RKBeverages.

[Chris Turner]

Com.