The Gist: Closed Schools, Closed Minds Hosted by Peach Fish Productions | Release Date: June 26, 2025

In the June 26, 2025 episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca delves into the contentious decisions surrounding school closures during the COVID-19 pandemic and examines the broader implications of institutional biases within public health authorities. Featuring an insightful interview with David Zweig, author of An Abundance of Caution: American Schools, the Virus, and a Story of Bad Decisions, the episode unpacks the complexities and consequences of pandemic-era policies.

Revolutionizing Vaccine Committees: RFK Jr.’s Influence

Mike Pesca opens the discussion by addressing the recent overhaul of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices by RFK Jr. He highlights a critical shift:

"He fired all 17 experts on the committee about two weeks ago, filled the committee. And by filled, I mean half filled the committee with eight members. One quit before today's meeting." [02:00]

Pesca underscores the transformation of the committee into one dominated by vaccine skeptics, leading to recommendations aimed at eliminating thimerosal from vaccines. He remarks on the symbolic significance of thimerosal in the anti-vaccine movement, questioning whether this move will ease or further entrench public fears.

David Zweig on School Closures and Public Health Missteps

David Zweig joins Pesca to discuss the pivotal moment when public health decisions shifted from reasonable caution to untenable measures. Zweig identifies the reopening of schools across Europe as a key indicator of when policies became unreasonable:

"It became unreasonable once you had millions of children in school throughout Europe... if this was a real sort of like a catalyst for launching the virus, you would have seen some sort of signal and we simply didn't." [07:36]

Zweig critiques the prolonged closure of American schools, arguing that the lack of negative consequences post-reopening indicated that the initial fears were overstated. He draws parallels between public health interventions and medical practices, emphasizing the importance of the "first do no harm" principle:

"You would never just give someone a whole bunch of pills without knowing what the possible effects would be. But that's exactly what the approach was by the public health authorities in the pandemic." [08:45]

Institutional Bias and Polarization in Public Health

The conversation shifts to the inherent biases within public health institutions, predominantly leaning left, and how this affects decision-making. Zweig argues that elite institutions with left-leaning tendencies failed to incorporate diverse perspectives, leading to flawed policies:

"The people within our public health establishment are almost uniformly lean left... they deeply misled the American public." [20:35]

Zweig criticizes the lack of input from health economists and educators, highlighting how this narrow focus neglected the broader societal impacts of interventions like school closures.

Public Health Messaging: The Mask Mandate Confusion

Pesca and Zweig delve into the inconsistent public health messaging surrounding mask mandates. They discuss how shifting guidelines eroded public trust:

"If the CDC said there is no evidence this will help, but we ask everyone to give it a try... Had Foushee and the CDC said there is no evidence this will help, but we ask everyone to give it a try." [13:29]

Zweig emphasizes the dangers of presenting uncertain information with unwarranted certainty, leading to a loss of credibility:

"If you're making a case for the idea that they need to present a degree of certainty which is unwarranted in order to get people to act, that's incredibly dangerous and damaging." [14:36]

Consequences of Polarization: Comparing Global Responses

The episode contrasts the American polarized response to the pandemic with countries like Sweden, which benefited from higher societal trust. Pesca notes:

"The Gallup poll in 2020 showed Democrats thought the share of COVID deaths for people under the age of 25 was 87 times higher than the actual stats because we're so polarized." [17:07]

Zweig adds that the polarized environment in the U.S. hinders effective public health strategies, as decisions are often driven by political allegiances rather than empirical evidence.

The Bombing of Iran: Assessing Strategic Decisions

Transitioning from public health, Pesca shifts focus to the recent bombing of Iran, exploring the strategic and ethical dimensions of this military action. He critiques the mixed messages from officials and the media's role in shaping public perception.

David Zweig analyzes the potential repercussions:

"The mission space will never be the same... it's too early to know. But by what does it all mean?" [29:03]

He discusses the dichotomy between projected benefits and actual outcomes, highlighting skepticism about the effectiveness of the strikes and their long-term impact on Iran's nuclear capabilities.

Media Narratives and Public Perception

Zweig critiques media outlets like Breaking Points for sensationalizing the costs of military interventions. He argues that while some concerns are valid, they are often presented in exaggerated forms that cater to specific audiences:

"Their analysis was an interesting artifact of exaggerating the costs as an instinct. This is just what they do." [31:58]

He underscores the importance of nuanced reporting that balances potential risks with achievable benefits, rather than succumbing to polarized narratives.

Conclusion: The Path Forward

In wrapping up, Pesca and Zweig reflect on the lessons learned from both public health and military interventions. They advocate for greater honesty and transparency in public communications and a more inclusive approach to decision-making that incorporates diverse expertise.

Zweig emphasizes the necessity for institutions to reassess their roles and biases to prevent future missteps:

"We need to question and understand why is it that the people who are supposed to trust these people, the 'quote, unquote, good guys'... failed so spectacularly." [20:35]

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Pesca: "It's hard to overstate the damage from the episode of the toing and froing of whether to have the mask mandate or not. [...] public health messaging pitfalls." [13:29]

• David Zweig: "Honesty really is the best policy when it comes from public health and from medical professionals that you can't BS the public forever." [15:12]

• Sagar Enjeti (Breaking Points): "We have thousands and thousands of U.S. service members... we are right back." [31:58]

Final Thoughts

The Gist episode "Closed Schools, Closed Minds" offers a critical examination of the intersection between public health policies and institutional biases. Through a rigorous dialogue with David Zweig, Mike Pesca unpacks the long-term consequences of pandemic decisions and the broader implications of polarized governance. The discussion serves as a compelling call for greater transparency, inclusivity, and critical reassessment of established institutions to navigate future crises more effectively.