Dan Soder & Moshe Kasher: A Lighthouse for the Mentally Ill

Summary

The Gist

Episode: Dan Soder & Moshe Kasher: A Lighthouse for the Mentally Ill
Date: January 3, 2026
Host: Bryan Safi (of Peach Fish Productions, guest hosting for Mike Pesca)
Guests: Dan Soder, Moshe Kasher

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Episode Overview

This special "Saturday from the Vault" episode features two comedians, Dan Soder and Moshe Kasher, in separate interviews from earlier in their careers. The conversations delve into their comedic approach, personal history, perspectives on the evolution of comedy, social issues, and how the landscape for comics continues to change. Lively, candid, and sharp-witted, the episode combines the comedians' distinctive voices with thoughtful discussion about growth (both personal and cultural), the pitfalls and payoffs of their craft, and engaging observations on current societal debates.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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Dan Soder: Craft, Growth, & the “Lighthouse for the Mentally Ill”

(Timestamps: [03:59] - [18:34])

Comedic Career Trajectory

• Soder discusses his early move from Tucson to NYC at 21 ([05:39]), citing a draw toward New York’s aggressive, punchy comedy scene vs. LA’s performative style.
  • “I always kind of identified more with New York comedians. I think they were more my sensibilities. And it felt right when I moved.” ([05:44])

NYC vs. LA Comic Culture

• Strong opinions on what defines each scene, including the “killer be killed” New York mentality and LA’s polish ([06:04]).
  • “LA comedians are amazing at performance. In fact, I think New York lacks that.” ([06:04])
  • “I was done driving. ... The rain [in Arizona] smelled like hot nails.” ([06:15])

On Comedy Style and Fundamentals

• Soder’s "rat-a-tat" joke style, learned out of necessity in New York, is compared to athletic fundamentals ([07:48]-[08:42]).
  • “You learn that simply like a basketball player learns fundamentals.” ([07:48])

Evolution of Material: Personal Growth Reflected

• Compares his half-hour special (“the EP”) and hour special (“the LP”), explaining how his act mirrors his personal journey—moving from stories of his childhood to introspective analysis ([09:15]-[12:39]).
  • “The first special, the facts. The second special, the analysis.” ([12:35])

On Quitting Substances

• Soder opens up about quitting drinking after his first special, shifting to weed and caffeine ([09:40]-[10:20]).
  • “I quit drinking maybe a month and a half after I recorded that half hour special. So then I built this special on just smoking weed and drinking coffee.” ([10:00])

Memorable Analogy: “Lighthouse for the Mentally Ill”

• On quitting smoking, he observes how lighting a cigarette in public attracts odd and unstable personalities ([10:20]):
  • “That little orange ember becomes like a lighthouse for the mentally ill.” — Dan Soder ([10:20])

Signature Bit: The Russian Accent Joke

• Discusses his widely popular “Russian accent” bit, which became his comedic “Freebird,” the closer he could always count on ([14:59]-[16:57]):
  • “Whenever I think someone might try to beat me up or mug me, I fake a Russian accent. … Russians are the scariest white people. … There is no way I'd ask a Russian for directions.” ([15:07])
  • On Russian fans: “Russian people love being told they're terrifying.” ([17:23])

Challenge of Being Known for One Joke

• Soder expresses the comic’s anxiety about being a one-hit wonder and the drive to always create new, better material ([16:48]).

Life Reflected in Work

• Soder on drawing from real life—his day job waiting tables, his low confidence, his upbringing by a single mom—as rich comic fuel ([12:11], [18:19]):
  • “I never really had confidence. Hence the name of the special, Not Special.” ([12:18])
  • “I waited tables for five years in midtown and it's just a nice realization that that didn't go to waste.” ([18:19])

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Moshe Kasher: Problematic, Comedy’s Purpose, & Cultural Change

(Timestamps: [20:05] - [36:06])

Launching “Problematic” on Comedy Central

• Describes his interest in doing a talk show blending audience/panel discussion—wants the show to reflect social issues but also the overuse and “therapy speak” of “problematic” ([21:04]-[22:31]):
  • “Problematic is the ad hominem screech from across the ideological divide.” ([21:51])

Episode Topics: Cultural Appropriation & Attention-Spans

• Reviewing their debut episodes, he discusses cultural appropriation ([22:59]) and how the Internet is “shallowing” our brains ([23:06]) per Nicholas Carr's research.
  • “Our brains are becoming shallower and shallower as we take in more and more information, we retain less and less... there are behavioral scientists at work right now attempting to get your focus on an app on the screen and never ever let it go.” ([23:06])

How Twitter & Social Media Change Comedy

• Kasher points out how instant sharing platforms impact joke development ([24:12]):
  • “You used to have a funny idea, and you would, like, you'd nibble on it… now you just type it in Twitter and send it out into the world, and then it kind of blips out of your brain.” ([24:12])

Philosophy of Comedy & Belief

• Debates the relationship between holding beliefs and stand-up; argues for laughter above activism ([26:13]-[28:33]):
  • “If you're not more worried about being funny than you are about being just then I guess you're not really a comedian. You're like a clever activist, if that.” ([28:33])

On Progress, Outrage, and Change

• Kasher urges credit for people’s growth—both in comedy and culture, critiquing rigid “outrage culture” where people are held forever to old tweets ([26:39]-[27:43]):
  • “When you find a tweet, it doesn't represent the person you're looking at. It represents where the person was years ago.” ([27:06])

Privilege, Identity & Limits of Humor

• Plans for future episodes include identity and privilege, advocating for tough discussions ([28:33]):
  • "I want everything to be on the table—not as fodder for comedy but as fodder for conversation." ([29:52])

Changing Standards & Words in Comedy

• Discusses how certain slurs (“F-bomb”) became taboo even in “correct” comic contexts ([32:08]-[33:16]). He notes this is likely better for society, but bittersweet for comics:
  • “That is too bad for me as a comedian and probably really great for the world as a whole that we have progressed in such a way…” ([33:16])

Comedy’s Pulse: Adapting to Real Social Change

• Observes differing comedy expectations by audience and venue. The “business” of standup is to surf that ever-shifting line ([33:59]-[34:09]):
  • “There’s a different reality at the Comedy Store in Los Angeles than there is at the UCB Theater in Los Angeles.” ([33:36])

On Offensive Material

• “If you’re not more worried about being funny than you are about being just… you’re not really a comedian.” ([28:33])
• “You know, the controversy around like rape jokes and or Holocaust jokes or anything else, it better be the best joke you’ve ever written… not because you don’t have the right to tell it, but because it comes preloaded and with a hypercharge.” ([34:26])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Soder:

  • “That little orange ember becomes like a lighthouse for the mentally ill.” ([10:20])
  • “I was drinking at a dive bar in Boston down the street, I was going after it.” ([09:46])
  • On the Russian accent: “Russians are the scariest white people. They've earned it.” ([15:07])
  • “Russian people love being told they're terrifying.” ([17:23])

• Moshe Kasher:

  • “Problematic is the ad hominem screech from across the ideological divide.” ([21:51])
  • “Our brains are becoming shallower and shallower as we take in more and more information, we retain less and less...” ([23:06])
  • “If you're not more worried about being funny than you are about being just, then I guess you're not really a comedian. You're like a clever activist, if that.” ([28:33])
  • “That is too bad for me as a comedian and probably really great for the world as a whole…” (on not using gay slurs anymore, [33:16])

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Highlighted Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|------------| | Dan Soder interview start | [03:59] | | Soder on NY vs. LA comedians | [06:04] | | Soder discusses specials and growth | [09:15] | | Soder on quitting smoking/drinking | [10:00] | | “Lighthouse for the mentally ill” | [10:20] | | On the Russian accent bit | [15:07] | | Soder on being a one-hit wonder | [16:48] | | Moshe Kasher interview start | [21:04] | | On “Problematic” – the show and the word | [21:51] | | Cultural appropriation and attention spans | [22:59] | | How tech is “shallowing” our brains | [23:06] | | Social media and joke development | [24:12] | | Comedy’s purpose: belief vs. laughter | [26:13] | | On privilege, identity, and tough convos | [28:33] | | On evolving language and taboo words | [32:08] | | Differing audience and venue expectations | [33:36] |

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Tone & Style

The episode is sharp, conversational, and self-aware. Both comics blend wit with real insight about their work and the environment they operate in. They’re willing to be self-deprecating—sometimes brutally so—and display an openness to change, even as they acknowledge the challenges it brings to their art. The language is direct, peppered with genuine comic timing, irreverent asides, and a willingness to name the odd, awkward, or outright “problematic.”

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Recommended If You Missed the Episode

This episode is great for anyone interested in stand-up comedy’s evolving landscape, the comedic mind, and how personal and societal shifts influence joke-telling. It’s a chance to meet two distinctly different but kindred comedic spirits, honest about their doubts and ambitions, and to get a sense of the cultural crosscurrents shaping contemporary humor.

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Transcript

[Bryan Safi]

The gist is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. It's Saturday. It's the Saturday show and what I like to do is bring you one or two from the vault and that's what I'm going to do. Pretty old interviews with pretty funny comics. Very funny comics. These comics predate when we started the funny you should mention series and they go back to I think April 2017 was Moishe catcher's appearance. We'll play him. Second, Dan Soder was also on the show. He since been on Billions a lot and he is, he's one of these comics that has a foot in a few worlds. Acting, regular comedy. There is a skanks type comedy. There's a legion of skanks and skank fest. And he does a real really well there. He plays in front of a whole lot of crowds. And so you'll hear my interview with Dan Soder, you'll hear my interview with Moishe Catcher and then you'll hear me say thanks. Well you won't. I'll say it now. Thanks. Talk to you again on Monday. Pre. Thank you. Age catches up to you and that's okay. I'm getting definitely wiser. But you know, when I do a deep knee bend or even a mid knee bend, there are certain noises. The joints are stiff. Recovery takes longer. I'm always looking for products, ideas or products that are ideas to help me out. I didn't really think of collagen or collagen peptides until bubs came along. Bubs, naturals collagen peptides makes you look and feel couple decades younger. So this could mean things like stronger joints, healthier nails. I will not mention healthier hair but apparently for people other than people like me, you know, those who have hair, they could do the job too. Smoother skin, definitely faster recovery. Put it into my coffee every morning.

[Dan Soder]

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[Bryan Safi]

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[Dan Soder]

Mm, yeah, simply the half hour.

[Bryan Safi]

How do you think of these things? The brain power to come up with these titles?

[Dan Soder]

Oh yeah. You know, for the half hour, I think I spent six months in Tibet just on peyote. Thinking of a title.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah. Which is a weird marrying of a drug that's not big in Tibet.

[Dan Soder]

Oh no, you have to bring it with you.

[Bryan Safi]

Yes.

[Dan Soder]

That's the whole thing.

[Bryan Safi]

Which is weird. They have so much good hash in Tibet. But you're doing the peyote. Meanwhile you go to the desert. Yeah. You go to the native lands and you're bringing Tibetan finger hash. It doesn't make any sense.

[Dan Soder]

I like how specific you are with your hashish knowledge.

[Bryan Safi]

So I've seen a bunch of your standup and I've heard a bunch of your interviews. Really good, really funny. Wasn't your first scene in Billions or your first big line just telling a joke essentially? Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Really? Well, yeah, I think it was. We were being interrogated by the false SEC people and I, we made a joke and I said it was like.

[Bryan Safi]

A prom night promise and the prom night promises.

[Dan Soder]

Just the tip was the punchline. Yeah, but they. Yeah, that was like a pinch hit. It was like my first pinch hit in the majors.

[Bryan Safi]

And it's because you. Well, it's because of your prowess in Acting chops. But also, you did stand up with Koppelman. Brian Koppelman for the show back when he was just a unknown standup, even though he had all these writing credits under his belt.

[Dan Soder]

When I first met Koppelman, I've told the story on the moment. I thought he was a construction worker. Yeah. So it was. We were even. I was just super happy. He bought me a beer one night. I'd had no money, and he was like, I'll buy you a beer. And I was like, man, this guy's good. Salt of the earth. Salt that works with his hands.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah, but you never shook his hands. His soft, baby like hands?

[Dan Soder]

His soft writing hands. Those nubile hands.

[Bryan Safi]

That's right.

[Dan Soder]

When he revealed, you know, he was a screenwriter, I even then kind of scoffed at it. I was like, all right, good. Yeah, we're all screenwriters, but good job.

[Bryan Safi]

Who's not until proven otherwise.

[Dan Soder]

And then it was like, yeah, I just wrote Ocean's Thirteen. You're like, okay, I'm gonna shut up.

[Bryan Safi]

How old were you then when you started doing open mics?

[Dan Soder]

21 in Tucson, Arizona, when I first started.

[Bryan Safi]

And then what made you move to New York City to pursue it?

[Dan Soder]

I'm a huge comedy fan. I've always been a huge comedy fan. And the decision became like, LA or New York. And I always kind of identified more with New York comedians. I think they were more my sensibilities. And it felt right when I moved.

[Bryan Safi]

Here, New York's more aggressive and sharper elbows. And what would an LA comedian be like? More ethereal or.

[Dan Soder]

They perform their asses off. LA comedians are amazing at performance. In fact, I think New York lacks that. You go out to LA and you see these guys perform and you're like, jesus, these guys are just selling these bits.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

And then I think, you know, we could probably. A lot of New York guys could learn from that, but I just didn't. I was done driving. I lived in the desert. I didn't want to be around no seasons. I know it's a weird thing to say, but I grew up in Colorado and then moving to Arizona, the lack of seasons was kind of. It really bugged me. The rain smelled like hot nails. Like it was weird.

[Bryan Safi]

Like a salon. Or the roofing material.

[Dan Soder]

Like roofing material. Sorry, I shouldn't say. I'm not talking about a nice press on. I was not talking about. About a good. Talking about a nice rough French tips.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

It became a thing where la. It seemed to me we're all just like the super famous comedians. And New York was like, oh, man, I want to, like, live there. I like. I like, even though I'm from Colorado, I'm not a big hiking guy and that kind of stuff. I was like, the city's just gonna be perfect. And I think I was right. I immediately, when I moved here was just like, oh, this was the best.

[Bryan Safi]

Decision, you know, if you didn't tell people, and it's in your act, and you talk about growing up that you're from Denver. And I've also heard you talk about how you're a San Francisco 49er fan in Broncos country. You seem like an east coast guy because your voice is deep. You're pretty aggressive. There's a rat a tat style. You know, you're quick. And though I think that kind of cuts both ways with New York comedians. Like, there's this killer be killed thing, and sometimes there's almost a limit to how you. How far you could go with that. I think Louis had to get past that, you know, to be able to spend a few seconds on stage without a punchline. You know, to be able to establish a premise and kind of explore an idea more without getting a laugh and killing the audience.

[Dan Soder]

I think that's a very astute point. I think you're absolutely correct. And I think the opposite side of that argument is I think learning that rat a tat style and learning that punch, punch, punch, punch, punch, you learn that simply like a basketball player learns fundamentals. It's like, if you're going to be a great dribbler, you just have to learn how to dribble every which way possible.

[Bryan Safi]

I. Right. And I also think for what you want to do, which is to be a comedian, you're not using this to get something else. It's better to have the. The basis. You talked about fundamentals. It's better, like when you go on the road to be able to fall back on that if everything goes south, you know you're going to be able to fight your way out of there.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Bryan Safi]

As opposed to, you know, so you use the basketball analogy. A football team, if they have a very precise passing offense, that's great. And then one day a blizzard hits or the quarterback gets hurt, and they can't run the ball 4 yards. It's good to be able to do the fundamental things, run the ball 4 yards, get your ground game going.

[Dan Soder]

Exactly. And keeping that analogy, that. That would prob. The style that I would prefer is have a great defense and run the ball, and then that's because that's just consistency.

[Bryan Safi]

So now we've established why you hate Colin Kaepernick.

[Dan Soder]

Quarterback, of course, and he has no football intelligence.

[Bryan Safi]

So in terms of the order of the specials, I got this idea while watching.

[Dan Soder]

I haven't.

[Bryan Safi]

I've seen, I think, some comedy that's going to go in the new special. I haven't seen the new special.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Bryan Safi]

For instance, on YouTube, there's this thing where you play an apartment. Well, some of those jokes wind up in not special.

[Dan Soder]

In a strange way, that is the genesis of My Closer.

[Moshe Kasher]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because I think it's. I look at the half hour like the EP and this is the lp. There's similar subject matter, but I think a much more in depth look at a lot of the same things. Of being raised by a single mom, of kind of being a hypochondriac and kind of not having a lot of confidence and that kind of source material. You know, I think in the half hour I was talking about being single and then all of a sudden you jump to the hour and I'm talking about going through a breakup with.

[Bryan Safi]

What, three years in between?

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, three years in between. So I, you know, I quit drinking.

[Bryan Safi]

Oh, a lot of drinking stuff in the. In the shit.

[Dan Soder]

First one half of the bag. Whenever we recorded that, I was drinking at a dive bar in Boston down the street, I was going after it.

[Bryan Safi]

You do talk about that thing that I have noticed where the stuff that makes you cool in your 20s makes you problematic in your 30s and 40s.

[Dan Soder]

Well, that's what I mean. You know what's funny about that is I quit drinking maybe a month and a half after I recorded that half hour special. So then I built this special on just smoking weed and drinking coffee. And you can tell that I'm smoking weed and drinking coffee and entering my 30s. So I'm kind of happy.

[Bryan Safi]

I thought it was maturity, but it's caffeine and cannabis. It's all maturity is ying and yang.

[Dan Soder]

It really is. It's balance, the duality. I do recommend quitting smoking. There are a lot of great benefits. You save money immediately, 50% less crazy people in your life immediately. Because when you smoke cigarettes in any city and you go outside and light one up, you might as well just shoot a flare into the sky that tells every drunk and insane person you feel like having a conversation. That little orange ember becomes like a lighthouse for the mentally ill.

[Bryan Safi]

The notion I had, I remember thinking this to myself in terms of the guy in the 20s, what was cool and what's not. Here's a phrase. Let's go there. I'm friends with the bouncer.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah.

[Bryan Safi]

What's a very cool phrase? Now I'm 44. You're friends with the bouncer.

[Dan Soder]

Why are you friends with. Does he owe you money?

[Moshe Kasher]

Oh, God.

[Dan Soder]

Is he gonna do a favor for you?

[Bryan Safi]

But I think maybe this isn't true for everyone, and maybe it's not even true for you, but I think you could also make the case you did the first one three years ago. The first one's like a memoir. Okay. And the second one is more an autobiography, but not necessarily the story of my life up to this point. I think in the first one, all this stuff about being a kid, all this stuff about where you're from, I mean, you were mining 29 years. You know, David Sedaris, first book or memoir writer, Augustine Burroughs, like, I'm going to tell you who I was as a kid, and then it becomes big. And then the second book, if they're really good, they could. They don't go over the same material, but they talk about how they've changed a little bit, and they talk about their life observations. And I think you follow that pattern a little.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. I think I would probably say in the half hour, it is an introduction of, like, hey, kind of. I was raised by a single mom, and I think on the hour, I address that again, but I address it from much more of like, this is why my psychology is what it is.

[Bryan Safi]

Yes.

[Dan Soder]

It's because when you're raised in this environment, you know, I have the joke on the half hour about being basically like a cockblock to my mom.

[Bryan Safi]

Right.

[Dan Soder]

Where on the hour, I have the bit from the different perspective, my bits more about, like, I feel bad now that she had to deal with me as a kid and why only children are weirder. It comes from the fact of, like, I never really had confidence. Hence the name of the special. Not special.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah. The first special, the Facts. The second special, the analysis.

[Dan Soder]

Exactly. That's probably the. That's the best way to put it.

[Bryan Safi]

But when you're young and it's great comedy, and that's the thing you want to say. Most of what you want to say is, here's who I am.

[Dan Soder]

Yes.

[Bryan Safi]

And then once that's said, it becomes, here's why. Who I am. Well. And that's a natural human progression.

[Dan Soder]

And now that I'm done with that part of it. And now you. The special we recorded in December, and now here we are in May, in 2016. And I'm finding that my comedy now is much more, like, kind of where I wanted to get it, where it's like, here's a little bit of me, but mostly a take on a subject, because I kind of got a little sick of talking about me, and I was kind of like, yeah, I'm sick of talking about my mom dating, and I'm sick of talking about substances. So why don't we just move on? Why don't we start, you know, covering other stuff? That's where I'm at right now, which. Which is very enjoyable.

[Bryan Safi]

You're on a ton of podcasts. And what's the radio show on Sirius?

[Dan Soder]

The Bonfire with Big J Okerson on Comedy Central Radio, SiriusXM95.

[Bryan Safi]

What do you like about doing that? Not having a script.

[Dan Soder]

It is the closest I've ever came in comedy to literally just making your friend laugh. Yeah, Big J and I. The entire core of the show is us bullshitting and cracking each other up. And it's blatantly obvious that that's what it is. It's not highbrow. It's dirty. It's fun.

[Bryan Safi]

I could tell that you like the craftsmanship of standup comedy, but if you didn't have that free form, would that drive you crazy that the only expression you had was essentially telling the same joke, perfecting the same joke?

[Dan Soder]

It would burn me up a little. But I think more than anything, I'd probably just try to push myself to do more standup, if that was the case, just. Or maybe go do a storytelling show or like Ari's. This is not happening. Where it's much looser and you can kind of find your own way through the story in a funny way.

[Bryan Safi]

I heard a podcast, remind me of the name of it. I think it's called Show Me youe Bits with a friend of yours named Alex. Alexis. Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Alexis Guerreros.

[Bryan Safi]

There you go. Alexis Guerreros.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah. We did that in a car.

[Bryan Safi]

We did it in a car. Coming back from a gig in, like, suburban Camden or something. Like, not even Camden. Gateway to Camden.

[Dan Soder]

It was right by Philly. I remember that. Yes. Yeah.

[Bryan Safi]

And so I love the idea that was old. Yeah. I love the idea for this show, which is. Let's talk about a great joke. And you talked about what was, at the time, the one joke you had that could always get a laugh.

[Dan Soder]

I call it my free bird.

[Bryan Safi]

Your free bird. Because it kind of. You can't get away from it, or maybe at that point, you couldn't. And it's the Russian accent. Joke.

[Dan Soder]

Yeah, I did it on Conan. Now I use this trick all the time. Whenever I think someone might try to beat me up or mug me, I fake a Russian accent. You're welcome. It's genius. I'll be walking home late at night. Two dangerous looking thugs walk up to me like, yo, man, you doing neighborhood Jordan? You think this bad Neighborhood. Russians are scariest white people. They've earned it. I'm so scared of them that I guarantee you if I was lost, dangerously lost, there is no way I'd ask a Russian for directions.

[Bryan Safi]

Why do you think we laugh so much at that joke?

[Dan Soder]

It's just honest. I wasn't doing it as a bit. I used a Russian accent to kind of get out of a situation where I thought maybe I might get mugged. And it worked in the Bronx. And I would tell that story to one of my best friends, Nate Bargetze. And I remember we were at his house and he was like, if you don't do that as a joke, we're not gonna be friends. And that was the first real bit that I wrote where I was like, oh, this is. I think this one. Like, I could do it at the end. This is a closer. This is what it feels like to have a closer. And then it kind of got annoying. Cause I couldn't write a joke. Another good, like. And I don't want to be Yakov Smirnoff. I don't want to keep doing the same observation.

[Bryan Safi]

It's not so it's maybe not Freebird, because I think Lynyrd Skynyrd has a lot of really good songs. Yeah, okay. But it's maybe, you know, a one hit wonder, like, question mark. And the Mysterians. Why don't you write another 96 tears like you write another 96 tears.

[Dan Soder]

Well, also, the thing is, is that was a fear. And I think in a weird way, that joke pushed me to write better material because I don't want to be a one hit wonder how.

[Bryan Safi]

Just.

[Dan Soder]

Just make it funnier. Everything you put out, never be satisfied. Russian people love the Russian joke. Of course they love it. Someone bootlegged it on YouTube. Just the clip from the Conan thing on YouTube. And it got 2 million views. And I was like, well, that's the craziest. Then someone dubbed Russian over my Russian joke until I do the accent and then it goes back to Russia and.

[Bryan Safi]

You'Re like, so Russian people can understand the joke? Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Soder]

Because Russian people love being told they're terrifying.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

If you tell a Russian person they're Terrifying. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.

[Bryan Safi]

How often will you bust out the Russian joke if things aren't going well? There's still probably once in a while you'll play a club and everything's aligned against you and you got Mike hum.

[Dan Soder]

And in New York, in the cellar, there'll be like a tough crowd or you'll be going first and you're not really hitting and someone important's in the room and you want to do well. But whenever I do that joke, there's always if I'm doing it in New York, there's always one comedian. And if it's one of my friends, they're always like, yeah, you had to pull out the Russian. Shut up.

[Bryan Safi]

Shut up. So I hope you got out of my conversation with Dan Soder that he hates himself just enough to be a really good comedian. Not special. Debuts May 21. If you're the kind of person who actually waits for dates to watch TV shows come on, it'll be on demand forever.

[Dan Soder]

Ye. And it'll be on itunes. You can download it on itunes. And then the album version comes out May 24th on iTunes.

[Bryan Safi]

And in season two of Billions, you're still gonna be Nick.

[Dan Soder]

I hope so.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah.

[Dan Soder]

You know what's great about that, man, is I waited tables for five years in midtown and it's just a nice realization that that didn't go to waste. Yeah, it's draw from my experience.

[Bryan Safi]

You knew those guys play a real.

[Dan Soder]

Raging D bag on tv.

[Bryan Safi]

Dan Soder, thank you very much, Dan.

[Dan Soder]

Thanks, man. That was fun.

[Bryan Safi]

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[Moshe Kasher]

Foreign.

[Bryan Safi]

Is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Moshe Kasher is a lot of things. He's. He's been in the podcast game for years, is a very successful stand up comedian. He recently went on a honeymoon comedy tour with his wife, Natasha Leggero. I guess the honeymoon's over. The tour's over. But now he has a new show on Comedy Central. It's called Problematic. It's a little part Phil Donahue. And I use that description because that's the one Moshe you just uses. Doesn't say Oprah. Doesn't want to appropriate Oprah. It's a little bit panel discussion, It's a little bit audience discussion. It's a little bit country, it's a little bit rock and roll. And Moshe is here.

[Moshe Kasher]

Hey, how you doing?

[Bryan Safi]

I'm well. This is the show you wanted to do?

[Moshe Kasher]

Yeah, this is the show I wanted to do. Well, I wanted to do. There were some other shows that I wanted to do, but this is the. This is the talk show I wanted to do. So this is where things start to get a bit more complicated. Right. Black hair is one of the most sensitive topics that you can discuss under the cultural appropriation umbrella. And this is a picture of Kylie Jenner wearing dreads.

[Bryan Safi]

I got to give her credit.

[Moshe Kasher]

Like, this is the least offensive thing.

[Bryan Safi]

A Kardashian has ever done.

[Moshe Kasher]

I mean, the issue underneath the issue is always the power differential, right? It's that people of color get punished for having their own thing, for wearing their hair the way they want. And people like Kylie Jenner get the COVID of Teen Vogue. This was from the COVID of Teen Vogue.

[Bryan Safi]

And Problematic. Is this your idea, the title, the name for the show?

[Moshe Kasher]

Well, me and Alex Blagg, one of the creators of iDnight, got together and we created this thing together, including the name and Problematic. I think it's a pretty perfect summation of what it is because we're dealing with societal problems. But Also problematic is the ad hominem screech from across the ideological divide. They go, whatever you've done that doesn't agree exactly with the thing that the person accusing you of it is they scream problematic at you. And so hopefully we'll be able to scream problematic at. At America.

[Bryan Safi]

And it's also vague and kind of incar in corporates or encapsulates therapy speak, which is part and parcel of the new sensitivity maybe.

[Moshe Kasher]

So I appreciate you thinking that it's vague.

[Bryan Safi]

No, as a specific complaint, I think you're right. Yeah, it's annoyingly vague.

[Moshe Kasher]

You're right. It means like a gen. I generally don't like what you're doing. I'm not exactly sure what you're doing, but I in general don't like it.

[Bryan Safi]

It also does the thing where you take a perfectly good word and add some syllables to try to gussy it up, but you're really just defining it down. That's a problem. What do you mean? I mean it's problematic.

[Moshe Kasher]

How about problematize? Yeah, that's a nice word.

[Bryan Safi]

Episode one is about cultural appropriation.

[Moshe Kasher]

We tackled cultural appropriation.

[Bryan Safi]

Episode two is about how the Internet is changing our minds.

[Moshe Kasher]

How the Internet is changing our brains. Brains rewiring us, Rewiring them. And that was really interesting to find out about. A really interesting conversation with the guy, Nicholas Carr, who wrote the book the Shallows, how the Internet is changing our br. And basically this idea that our brains are becoming shallower and shallower as we take in more and more information we retain less and less that the kind of fire brigade bucket churn into short term to long term memory is being disrupted by disruption. Essentially that we are so distracted by all this onslaught of information that we aren't taking things in and keeping them. And the reason that we're so distracted by all this information is that there are behavioral scientists literally at work right now attempting to get your focus on an app on the screen and never ever let it go. And you volunteered for it by bringing your smartphone with you. You know, it used to be that the laptop was shallowing our brains. And then they made the laptop pocket size and we put. We strapped the laptop to our back and now the monkey is within us. And soon virtual reality the monkey will be. We will be the monkey.

[Bryan Safi]

Okay, so let's say our brains are rewired. How's that affect comedy?

[Moshe Kasher]

What? No, I'm just saying. There you go. If you laughed, the answer is a classic zinger. I don't know for sure, but I Do know that many comedians report back that Twitter in particular, has taken away a lot of what used to be the comedian's churning process. Right. So you used to have a funny idea, and you would, like. You'd nibble on it and chew on it for a while, and now what you do, you just type it in Twitter and send it out into the world, and then it kind of blips out of your brain. So I do think. I think that with all things introspective, the shallowing of our brains has been affected, including comedy that's on the comic, though.

[Bryan Safi]

You go off Twitter, you don't have to be on Twitter. You don't have to use Twitter as a scratch pad. You just use it to promote dates or repost Breitbart, whatever you wanna do.

[Moshe Kasher]

Yeah, but that is what I wanna do. I wanna repost Breitbart. Yeah, but it is on everybody. Everyone should log off and get their brains back. And yet we don't.

[Bryan Safi]

I wanna ask you this. I've listened to a lot of your podcasts. Used to do the Champs with Neal Brennan.

[Moshe Kasher]

Yep.

[Bryan Safi]

Love that show.

[Moshe Kasher]

Thank you.

[Bryan Safi]

You have a show?

[Moshe Kasher]

Town Hall.

[Bryan Safi]

But it's not called Town Hall.

[Moshe Kasher]

Oh, no, It's a spoonerism.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah.

[Moshe Kasher]

Hound Tall.

[Bryan Safi]

Hound Tall.

[Moshe Kasher]

Perhaps the worst name podcast in the game, some might say.

[Bryan Safi]

Well, only because you get so many dog enthusiasts checking you out. Well, actually, isn't it more. I think a spoonerism is anything with misplaced syllables.

[Moshe Kasher]

Listen, I didn't even know what a spoonerism was until I confronted the fact that my podcast was very poorly named. I came up with it in a dream, and I thought, mm, how clever. And then I did it, and I was like, this is very difficult to explain. The 900th time I said hound like a hound Dog like a tall dog. At any rate, it's a podcast.

[Bryan Safi]

It's actually beyond being a spuderism, which it is. It's a chiasmus.

[Moshe Kasher]

Ooh, I don't know.

[Bryan Safi]

Probably used them. Kennedy did. It's the inversion of a phrase. So ask not what your country could do for you. Ask what you could do for your country. We better put kids. More kids into Penn State than the state pen.

[Moshe Kasher]

Yeah.

[Bryan Safi]

So when you reverse the first. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

[Moshe Kasher]

Sure.

[Bryan Safi]

So, okay. So I really wanted to ask this question. Is it harder to marry comedy with actually believing in something?

[Moshe Kasher]

You know, I think what's lucky about my show is that I'm not actually attempting to create a churning vehicle for my belief system.

[Bryan Safi]

No, but I just mean your standup. I mean, you're a guy with beliefs. You're a guy who. I think maybe the first level of the comedian is the jester who mocks everything. And you have to have that in you, but you don't do that. I mean, you have a point of view, and you don't want to just take shots at things you don't believe.

[Moshe Kasher]

Well, I don't know. What's interesting is things change, you know, And I think part of what's wrong with outrage culture in the world is that a lot of people, and this is people on the left, and I'm a lefty, they don't give credence to change and time in the way that they ought to. You know, when you go into someone's Twitter feed and you deep dive in and you find a tweet from seven years ago, that was, like, problematic. Yeah, right.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah.

[Moshe Kasher]

You're not giving credence to the fact that people have changed and that time changes people and people adjust, and also that people now leave digital footprints. And when you find a tweet, it doesn't represent the person you're looking at. It represents where the person was years ago. Right. So is it hard to marry comedy with your belief system? I think if you're doing comedy that isn't in step with your belief system, then what are you doing? But that said, my belief system about comedy is that the primacy of the comedian's job is to create laughter. It is not to make good points or to do great.

[Bryan Safi]

You would never accept the laughter if it's based on a premise that you don't believe in.

[Moshe Kasher]

I don't know if I even think that's true. There are things that I don't think are funny. Right. And if I don't think they are funny, they're either just because I don't find them stimulating personally, or because I find them anathema ideologically. But I've always resented. I don't think you're suggesting this, but I've always resented the idea that the primary positioning of the comedian ought to be to bring, like, great change or social justice or, you know, but it's a thing now. People go like, if you're not speaking truth to power, who are you really? It's like, I don't know. You know, I'm a comedian. Like, not every comedian is supposed to be talking about their deepest truth. Like, if you're not more worried about being funny than you are about being just then I guess you're not really a comedian. You're like a clever activist, if that.

[Bryan Safi]

The last thing I wanted to ask you. So. So are you having an episode on privilege? The idea of privilege?

[Moshe Kasher]

I think that's a good idea. Not yet, but I like that. I really wanted to do. There's a lot of episodes that we haven't done yet. We're doing a six episode order for our first few, so that's not very many. And if we get more, you know, please, please. Jewish God. The Jewish God is the studio, the network exec that will make the decision.

[Bryan Safi]

And he insists on going by that, by the way.

[Moshe Kasher]

But anyway, I'm a Jew, Moshe Kasher. At any rate, if we do more, there's so many fertile places to go. I want to do one on Identity. I'd like to do a. I'd like to do an episode on identity that started at trans and went like way further. You know, though it didn't start at like the CIS or whatever. It started at trans. Like that was. Trans is the most milquetoast thing we go to.

[Bryan Safi]

We could all agree trans, I mean, that's definitely a thing.

[Moshe Kasher]

Now let's move on. Let's get into it.

[Dan Soder]

It.

[Moshe Kasher]

Let's get out into the ether. I'd like to do trans.

[Bryan Safi]

That might make trans people uncomfortable. I think, like on the one hand you'd think, oh, they should be all embracing. On the other hand, there's this thing of the last group to maybe gain acceptance. Anytime someone goes past that, you're like, wait a minute, you're going to screw it up for us.

[Moshe Kasher]

Well, I think that is interesting for leaving trans people aside for a while. And that's happened throughout history.

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah, that's I think in law in North Carolina.

[Moshe Kasher]

But I think that. But it's an interesting phenomenon that every comedian knows where you're going through. You're making fun of. You know, I'm just for the sake of this point that I'm making. You know, you make fun of the Italians and everybody's like, ha, ha, ha ha. You make fun of the Mexicans, ha, ha, ha ha. Make fun of the Jews, ha, ha ha. And you make fun of the Chinese. And someone stands up, hey, I'm Chinese. Right? So like that thing like the, the person that laughs right until the moment that their group is being discussed. Well, I, I gotta, I'm not, I don't have time for that. You know, I want everything to be on the table, not, not as fodder for comedy. But as fodder for conversation, you said.

[Bryan Safi]

In an interview, maybe it was with Marin or somewhere else, that the. You were talking about possibly cultural appropriation or a show of that ilk, that the absurdist elements certainly are absurd. I think societally we've really focused on the absurdist elements. But my question is, sure, Breitbart's gonna take the crazy example of Oberlin having a protest over sushi and pretend that stands for the whole. And yet I do wonder, the more I am exposed to actual college kids and you play college campuses. It's not an entire caricature. Like, there is a lot of absurdity going on.

[Moshe Kasher]

I couldn't agree more. First, the most absurd thing is the way you pronounce absurd. But let's not.

[Bryan Safi]

What do I say?

[Moshe Kasher]

You say absurd, which is absurd. Where are you from?

[Bryan Safi]

New York.

[Moshe Kasher]

All right. Yeah. Cosmopolitan. Absurd. But anyway, I agree with you completely. I remember when Seinfeld was saying these college campus crowds are uptight or whatever. And I remember all these lefty comedians, young lefty comedians, going like, you're out of touch. And then all these non lefty comedians going like, he's right. People are getting oversensitive. And I remember thinking to myself, how could it be that both sides think the other side is arguing from a place of zero reality? Of course the answer is that both things are true, right? Of course. The answer is that things have moved on and we're in a different place in society. Where are things? I'll give you an example of that. It used to be quite easy in comedy for a young, progressive, alternative type of comedian to get a big laugh using the gay pejorative F bomb. Right? Are you with me?

[Bryan Safi]

Yeah.

[Moshe Kasher]

The f dash, dash dash dash T. And I would do it. I would do that, and I would always get a laugh because it was always from the right side. It was always a guy yelling it at me because he thought I was gay. And I would go. I was like, wrong guy or whatever, in a very effeminate way. Ha, ha ha, Right. I for years would tell that joke, you know, and a number of jokes where that word was in there. And the understanding, the implicit understanding was that I'm saying it on the right side. Then things changed. And I remember the moment when I was like, oh, wow, I can't get away with saying this no matter what positioning I'm saying it from. In the same way that you can't say the N word on stage now. It's pretty radioactive. Not no comedian, but almost no comedian can get away with saying. With saying that word. Right. Not the N word, the N word. We're leaving that aside. The F. The F dash. Dash gave it for your listeners. The black comic can say it, but.

[Bryan Safi]

Only 24 more letters to go through.

[Moshe Kasher]

But yes, so you get it. So I remember thinking, oh, wow, that is too bad for me as a comedian and probably really great for the world as a whole that we have progressed in such a way that I'm not able to get away with that anymore.

[Bryan Safi]

So what made you come to that conclusion? As opposed to the type of person who pushes back, who says it's free speech, who says they're wrong? Is it age? Is it politics?

[Moshe Kasher]

Is it, oh, it's reality. That's the price.

[Bryan Safi]

But that's your reality.

[Moshe Kasher]

No, no, no. It's not my reality.

[Bryan Safi]

Your exact generation, I would say. These kids, they got.

[Moshe Kasher]

But it's not my reality as a comedian. What's beautiful and interesting about.

[Bryan Safi]

Oh, I see.

[Moshe Kasher]

What you mean is you're always right up against hyper reality. Yeah, it's just like, will this make you laugh or will it not make you laugh? Because if it won't make you laugh, like, I'll tell you what, there's a different reality at the, like at the Comedy Store in Los Angeles than there is at the UCB Theater in Los Angeles. Right. I can say different things. I can get away with different things at the Comedy Store versus at ucb. It's just real.

[Bryan Safi]

So Jerry's not wrong, but basically he's saying, but he's not wrong, but he's also admitting your material's not translating at least 100% to the audience you're playing. And as a performer, that's on you, not them.

[Moshe Kasher]

I'm not saying anything about Jerry Seinfeld material. All I'm saying is, as a observer of culture and society, as all comedians are, and him most of all, very observational comedian, what I saw in that argument is two groups, two factions that were pretending the other side was arguing from a place of zero rhetorical reality. And that's not true. It is true that on college campuses, free speech and free thought has gotten stifled by fear, oppressive liberalism and outrage culture. And it is also true that the world has moved past the ability to say anything offensive and have the person just be able to go, like, what? It's a zero sum game, baby. Free speech. Like, both things can be true simultaneously. So if I have to vote for one over the other, I guess I would vote for the free exchange of. Well, I don't even know No, I think they're pretty even and they work hand in hand. As a comedian, it's easier for me when there are no holds barred and I don't particularly. All I care about is whether or not something is funny. And I won't say something I find personally offensive because I won't find that thing funny. You know, as I always say, like, you know, the controversy around like rape jokes and or Holocaust jokes or anything else, it better be the best joke you've ever written. Not because you don't have the right to tell it, but because it comes preloaded and with a hypercharge. So I've seen some jokes where I'm like, whew, that's a good joke. I would not tell it, but I am impressed that you were able to do that.

[Bryan Safi]

Problematic is a new series on Comedy Central. Check out every. Also definitely check out Moshe's podcast, which maybe you've heard of. It's called Hound Tall.

[Moshe Kasher]

Hound Tall.

[Bryan Safi]

It's a spoonerism slash chiasm.

[Moshe Kasher]

Oh, and my memoir while you're plugging things.

[Bryan Safi]

Sure.

[Moshe Kasher]

Casher in the Rye, the true tale of a white boy from Oakland who became a drug addict, criminal mental patient and then turned 16. But really, check out problematic Tuesday nights, 10 o', clock, Comedy Central.

[Bryan Safi]

Thank you, Moshe.

[Moshe Kasher]

Fuck you. No. Okay, sorry, I'll do it one more time. Do it again.

[Bryan Safi]

Thank you, Moshe.

[Moshe Kasher]

Thank you for having me.

[Bryan Safi]

The Gist is produced by Cory Wara. We had help today from Leah Yan. Kathleen Sykes helps me with the Gist list. Jeff Craig does so much with the video and the socials and the visual. He's a master of the visual in this. This a primarily audio form. Michelle Pesca also works with the visuals, but is mostly the visionary improve. And thanks for listening.

[Moshe Kasher]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host, you seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, out cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L, I, B, S Y N ads.com today.

[Bryan Safi]

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[Dan Soder]

Com.