The Gist – August 25, 2025

David Kessler on Why Junk Food Is America’s Nicotine

Episode Overview

In this episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca interviews Dr. David Kessler, former FDA commissioner and author of "Diet, Drugs, and Dopamine: The New Science of Achieving a Healthy Weight". The discussion centers around Kessler’s recent citizen petition to the FDA, which calls for reconsidering the “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS) status for processed refined carbohydrates in ultra-processed foods. Drawing a provocative analogy between the modern food industry and Big Tobacco, Kessler argues that junk food is engineered to be addictive and is a prime driver of America’s chronic disease epidemic. The episode digs into the regulatory landscape, the science of food addiction, and the personal as well as societal challenges of weight loss—culminating in a compelling conversation about GLP-1 weight loss drugs and the broader potential for meaningful public health change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Citizen Petition: Challenging “Generally Recognized as Safe” Status

• Background: Kessler explains his recent petition to the FDA to revoke GRAS status for specific ultra-processed ingredients—primarily processed refined carbohydrates, such as corn syrups and maltodextrins.
  • Historical Parallel: Recalls a pivotal citizen petition in the 1990s that ultimately led the FDA to assert jurisdiction over nicotine in cigarettes ([13:01]).
  • Food Safety Law: By law, substances must be proven with “reasonable certainty of no harm.” GRAS offers a loophole—many ingredients were considered “safe” decades ago without sufficient evidence of long-term harm ([18:21]).
• New Science/FDA Inaction: Science since the 1970s and 80s shows strong links between these ingredients and obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease, contradicting the original GRAS rationale.
  • Quote: “Fast forward four decades… these same processed refined carbohydrates [are] linked to obesity, cardiovascular disease and diabetes.” – David Kessler [18:21]
• The Regulatory Strategy: The burden is not on FDA to prove harm, but on industry to prove safety if expert consensus is lost ([19:35], [20:43]).
• Analogy to Tobacco: Pesca notes, “That was your nicotine, to analogize it to the low-tar cigarette suit.”
  Kessler responds: “Just as nicotine caused millions to be addicted and sickened by tobacco, so processed, refined carbohydrates… cause much of America’s chronic disease.” [17:13–17:21]

2. What Makes Ultra-Processed Foods So Harmful and Addictive?

• Kessler’s Definition: Prefers “ultra-formulated” foods to “ultra-processed”; focuses on the “perfect trifecta” of fat, sugar, and salt designed to exploit the brain’s reward circuits ([31:37], [32:11]).
• Core Ingredients: Refined carbohydrates, added sugars, and processed flours/starches, combined with additives like emulsifiers and stabilizers, are rapidly absorbed and drive overconsumption.
  • “You couldn’t have designed a better weapon to blow up the American body.” – David Kessler [14:50]
• Biological Hijack: These foods trigger dopamine-driven cravings, creating patterns of compulsive consumption akin to addiction ([32:11]).
• Historical Perspective: In environments of scarcity, brains that craved high-energy foods survived. Today’s abundance of engineered hyperpalatable food hijacks these same circuits ([38:10]).

3. Diet Education Isn’t Enough—Why Willpower Often Fails

• Pesca Skepticism: Host questions the efficacy of public education campaigns as the main solution to obesity: “Printing up the pamphlets and having a slogan… actually changing behavior [is] so much harder.” [34:43]
• Biological Reality: Kessler describes how the “pull” of food, driven by reward circuits and metabolism, easily overrides conscious control ([35:34], [34:43]).
  • “It’s not about weight. It should not be about BMI… It’s this toxic fat, visceral adipose capacity, that is killing us.” – David Kessler [37:18]
• Fat Distribution (“Toxic Fat”): The focus should be on visceral, metabolically active fat rather than overall weight or BMI ([35:34], [37:23]).

4. The Promise and Pitfalls of GLP-1 Weight Loss Drugs

• GLP-1 Drugs (e.g., Ozempic): Dubbed a “major game changer” for weight management ([28:47]).
  • They change the landscape by showing it’s not about willpower, but about biology ([28:47]).
  • These drugs shut down food cravings by slowing gastric emptying and activating aversive rather than reward circuits ([39:31], [41:43]).
  • “They can be used along with other tools. If you want to reclaim your health… only about 12% of us are metabolically healthy… These drugs are one tool that we can use to reclaim our health.” – David Kessler [28:47]
• Limits of Pharmacology: The drugs only work while you take them; long-term sustainable change requires learning new eating behaviors ([41:43]).
  • “They crack food addiction, but only while you’re on them. So what you have to do—certainly for me—was I had to learn to relearn to eat.” – David Kessler [44:15]
• Caveats: Not everyone tolerates the drugs well; post-drug relapse is common ([44:15–45:05]).
• Broader Implications: The approval and use of these drugs further shifts the narrative from personal blame to systemic, biological, and environmental factors.

5. Public Health and Regulatory Path Forward

• FDA’s Opportunity: Kessler insists FDA leadership could act now to revoke the GRAS status for refined carbohydrates without new legislation ([22:15], [23:24]).
  • “It doesn’t need a new law, doesn’t need to prove these are unsafe. The record… there’s no longer an expert consensus—he can act.” – David Kessler [23:24]
• Industry on Uncertain Ground: The entire ultra-processed food industry stands on shaky legal-regulatory footing—something must give ([22:15], [23:56]).
• Long-Term Perspective: Change will be incremental (“chipping away… it took years for tobacco”), but Kessler is hopeful for meaningful progress ([24:39]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Big Food vs. Big Tobacco:
  • “Just as nicotine caused millions to be addicted and sickened by tobacco, so processed, refined carbohydrates cause much of America’s chronic disease.”
    — Dr. David Kessler [17:21]
• On Defining the Problem:
  • “You couldn’t have designed a better weapon to blow up the American body.”
    — Dr. David Kessler [14:50]
• On Addictive Circuits:
  • “These circuits are part of all of us… We are wired to focus on the most salient stimuli in our environment. Switch that environment to one of abundance, put fat, sugar, and salt on every corner… many of us, not all of us, we’re living in a food circus.”
    — Dr. David Kessler [38:10]
• On GLP-1 Drugs:
  • “They tamp down these food addictive circuits. They crack food addiction, but only while you’re on them. So what you have to do (…) is relearn to eat… There should be no shame, no stigma.”
    — Dr. David Kessler [44:15]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [12:53] — Introduction to Kessler, citizen petition, and the context for FDA action
• [13:01]–[19:23] — Regulatory history, analogy to tobacco, what’s at stake in the GRAS petition
• [20:21]–[24:39] — How processed foods short-circuit consumption and regulatory action pathways
• [27:15]–[29:48] — Rise of GLP-1 drugs and Kessler’s personal weight gain during COVID
• [31:37]–[32:11] — “Ultra-formulated” foods and the reward system
• [34:43]–[37:23] — Limitations of “education first” strategies; visceral versus general fat
• [38:03]–[39:31] — How our brains are mismatched to the modern food environment
• [39:43]–[45:05] — GLP-1 mechanism, real-world experience, the challenge of lasting change
• [45:05] — Episode closing and preview of the next segment with Kessler

Conclusion

Mike Pesca’s conversation with David Kessler contextualizes the modern American diet as not simply a matter of personal responsibility, but as a complex interplay of biology, food science, and policy—one that mirrors the decades-long struggle with tobacco. Kessler’s regulatory challenge to the FDA, compelling analogies between junk food and nicotine, and nuanced view of pharmacological versus behavioral solutions, offer a timely, science-driven roadmap to confronting America’s chronic disease burden. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in food policy, public health, or the future of weight loss.