← The Gist
The Gist
Edward Wong: At the Edge of Empire, China, Family, and Power
00:33:59
New York Times correspondent Edward Wong has reported from Beijing to Baghdad, covering the rise of China and the reach of American power. In his new book At the Edge of Empire: A Family’s Reckoning with China, Wong blends geopolitics...
Loading summary
Transcript58 lines
- [00:00]
Mike Pesca
Warning. The following ZipRecruiter radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F words.
- [00:06]
ZipRecruiter Announcer
When you're hiring. We at ZipRecruiter know you can feel frustrated, forlorn, even, like your efforts are futile and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine. Fortunately, ZipRecruiter figured out how to fix all that, and right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip with ZipRecruiter you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite F word. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day.
- [00:43]
Edward Wong
Fantastic.
- [00:44]
ZipRecruiter Announcer
So whether you need to hire four, 40 or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com Zip to try ZipRecruiter for free. Don't forget that's ZipRecruiter.com Zip finally, that.
- [00:58]
Mike Pesca
ZipRecruiter.com/zip there's an exciting live event, a debate that I'm taking part of. It's part of the Open to Debate series and the question to be debated is, is masculinity a prison? I think that's a little bit of a term of art, but I'm not going to give away too much of my side of the debate which is, nah, come on, masculinity is not a prison. I'm actually going to bring more to the debate than just tone of voice. But if it's just on tone of voice, come on, masculinity of prison, things like that will be said. Details of the debate Wednesday, September 10th doors open at 5:30. The debate starts at 6 at the Comedy Cellar Village Underground in Greenwich Village. I will be debating Lux Altram. She is arguing, yes, masculinity is a prison. The moderator is. The moderator is Naima Raza and I think you're going to like it. I've been thinking a lot about is masculinity a prison? And I think I will be able to convince you if you're not already convinced. Nah, it's not. September 10, New York City Details for tickets in the show Notes or go to opentodebate.org for tickets and more details about the programs they put on. It's Friday, August 29, 2025. From peach fish Productions, it's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca. The anniversary of Hurricane Katrina I was there the day after the levees broke. I was in the state and I stayed there for a few weeks. As you said, there are still some people at the Superdome. General Fleming addressed some portions of the media today. What went on was yesterday a 50 truck convoy rolled downtown and they began evacuating people. They evacuated 20,000 people. Like I said, there are still people at the Superdome. And I went back a few times to report for npr. The question being asked, among the questions being asked in the news today is what have we learned on this, the 20th anniversary? So I have a big takeaway. It's that this is called a man made disaster because of the decisions like tearing up the wetlands that used to soak up storms, or the design of the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, a channel that because of its design contributed to storm surge or poorly maintained levees, all of that. So sure, the city, which is at or below sea level, sort of in a bowl, was of course vulnerable and imperfectly, or maybe you can even argue poorly designed. But another reason that it's called a man made disaster, and this is of course to make a rhetorical point, it was the horrible ravages of nature that killed over a thousand people. But the reason that it's called a man made disaster is that man got in the way of the rescue via the most human of tendencies, rumor mongering, exaggerating, blaming. So the reports right after the levees broke were all over the place and were all horrible babies who had their throats slit. A 7 year old girl raped and murdered in the Superdome. 1200 people drowned at a school, corpses laid out in excrement at the convention center. There were some murders. Police Chief Eddie Compass did talk about babies being raped. That didn't happen. He was dismissed of his duties four weeks in. Mayor Ray Nagin told Oprah, quote, they have people standing out there, been in that frickin Superdome for five days watching dead bodies, watching hooligans killing people, raping people. That didn't happen. Negan kept his job. I wrote into town from Baton Rouge on an ambulance that refused to go into areas with the most need because they heard that people were firing guns at ambulances. They weren't. The natural inclination is to say, is to imagine, well, how much worse would it have been had this taken place in 2025 in our media environment with the dark forces of social media and disinformation? I mean, back in 2005, there was one over the air radio station. It was a combination of the country station and the sports station, all the other stations. And they would get on the air and people would call in and they would essentially dispel rumors. They did a good report on that station, but it wasn't an effect of rebuttal. The role of rumor was profound. But a big difference between then and now is what we all did with the conspiracy, the theories. And there were lots of conspiracy theories. This is a clip from Spike Lee's documentary. When the levees broke, we heard a.
- [05:50]
Edward Wong
Big boom noise, boom. And it was loud, loud, loud. Yes, I heard the explosion. We heard it first, the echo from here, I think the level crack. And they help it the rest of the week. They had a bum. They bum that sucker.
- [06:04]
Mike Pesca
The truth is there was no plant explosion to wipe out the poor parts of town. But and this is crucial, there were also no national politicians cynically seizing upon rumors for their own purposes. Sure, Spike Lee put it in the documentary and has remained a media figure in very good standing. Later, with a 911 documentary, he put some worse conspiracy theorizing, pulled it out of the documentary after criticism. But I'm thinking about the people who should have known better did, or maybe it never occurred to any national politician to try to capitalize on the worst conspiracies swirling around. Barack Obama, just a few months into his Senate career, did not jump on conspiracies in order to gain notoriety or followers. It would never have occurred to him. Not only because he's a better person than that, but we didn't have the tools or mechanisms for that to happen. So 2005 wasn't such a different environment in terms of the constructed environment. I mean, we still have levees, we still have an Army Corps of engineers staying one project ahead of the next storm. It was a slightly different literal environment. So every year has gotten a bit hotter. Many weather events have gotten wetter. But if you look at the Number of Category 3 or higher Atlantic hurricanes in the decade of Katrina, they haven't increased since then. In fact, there were seven in the aughts and there have been seven total since 2011. But of course the media environment has changed a lot. But what I'm saying here, and I think it's important to note that you can't say that any of it's improved. I would also say that much of it has not gotten worse. The spread and belief in misinformation during COVID that occurred on a national scale, but so did the ability to counter it with Katrina. The lies and rumors were uncontained and unabated and they weren't even being prompted along by algorithms or social media. So my son is in New Orleans now studying, and whenever I go back there, I kind of see ghosts. I will admit it, the city has not rebounded, but it still is wondrous for all the things that makes New Orleans great. I was very happy to send him there. What a great place, great food, great culture, great people who have a great attitude and who persevere. Now, they haven't literally persevered in the aggregate. The population has shrunk by about 20% since Katrina. But the people there know what it means to survive because they have to on the show today. Okay, little heavy. Top of the show right there. Let's lighten it up with a spiel, a silly little spiel about a stupid, stupid subject that somehow gripped America. But first, Edward Wong is the New York Times diplomatic correspondent. His book is at the Edge of Empire, A Family's Reckoning With China. We talk about geopolitics and family history. Edward Wong. Up next, ever wondered why you keep getting endless spam calls, phishing emails, or even those creepy ads that seem to know way too much about you? Not a coincidence. It's data brokers. These companies collect and sell your personal information, things like your phone number, address, even details about your family, and then publish or resell it to whoever's buying. And it's not just annoying. This info can put you at risk of identity theft, harassment, even things like fraudulent loans being taken out in your name. That's exactly where Incogni comes in. Incogni automatically contacts data brokers on your behalf to get your personal info taken down and keeps doing it for you over time. Instead of spending hundreds of hours emailing every company yourself, you just sign up, share a little basic info and Incogni takes care of the rest. They reach out to over 230 major data brokers and with their unlimited plan, you can even request removals from custom sites you find yourself. And the best part is risk free. If you're not happy, they offer a money back guarantee within 30 days. So if you're ready to take back control of your data and stop data brokers from selling your personal information, head to incogni.com gist let me spell it out for you. Inc. O G N I.com gist and use code gist to get 60% off an annual plan. So remember, 30 day money back guarantee and 60% off@incogni.com gist protect your data and give yourself some real peace of mind. Hi, it's Me, it's him. On behalf of Hims. Hims. You know what HIMS does? They can't solve blanket stealing or the snoring or the I go to sleep watching tv. Really, I'm the weird kind of guy who stays up because of the tv. So that's the sort of thing in the bed or the bedroom that hims can't correct. But they've got you covered when it comes to performance. Through hims, you can access personalized prescription treatments for ed, like Hard Mints and Sex Rx plus climax control if prescribed. And the prescription part of it is really rather easy. You just apply online and then a trusted medical professional gets back to you and then they ship it. Think of HIMS as your digital front door that gets you back to your old self with simple 100% online access to trusted treatments for ED, all in one place. To get simple online access to affordable personal care for I've been mentioning ED, but ED, hair loss, weight loss, and more. Visit hims.com the gist that's hims.com the gist for your free online visit hims.com the gist Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan. Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions and important safety information. From the Mississippi Delta to modern Beijing, Edward Wang's reporting career has taken him deep inside the machinery of American empire and the rise of Chinese power. Also in his new book, at the Edge of Empire, A Family's Reckoning with China, we find his personal story, the son of Southern Chinese grocers and a Cold War army doctor. And so the things that he saw as a correspondent for the New York Times maybe hit him a little bit differently. Edward Wong, welcome to the gist.
- [13:01]
Edward Wong
How are you, Mike? Thanks a lot for having me here.
- [13:03]
Mike Pesca
So I got to start with the milieu that I was unfamiliar with. It turns out a lot of grocers in the Mississippi Delta are from China. Is this true?
- [13:15]
Edward Wong
Yeah. I mean, Chinese immigrants have settled all over the US and they're in the South. There's plenty of them in the South. They founded Chinatowns sort of one or two generations ago. So anywhere you go where you see these small Chinatowns, grocery stores, restaurants, they would likely have come from the same county, in fact, that my father came from in southern China.
- [13:36]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. And so this was. He was there during the Jim Crow era, right?
- [13:41]
Edward Wong
Well, he settled in Washington, D.C. in the 60s. He grew up in Southern China and Hong Kong and then he went up to Northern China at around 19:50, right after Mao had conquered all of China. And he became very enamored of the Communist revolution during those years. So he. When he came to the US he actually came as part of a migration that went to the chinatown in Washington.
- [14:07]
Mike Pesca
D.C. your father, and the book does start with an erased picture of the Red Star. Your father was in Mao's army, is that right?
- [14:19]
Edward Wong
That's exactly right. And the story that I tell, part of the story I tell in the book, essentially traces his arc of embracing the Communist cause and in fact, embracing to the degree that he wanted to join the army to fight the American military in Korea, and was then sent to the farthest reaches of the Chinese frontier to secure the borders and secure those borderlands as part of the military occupation. And then eventually he becomes disillusioned with the revolution and makes his way over to. To the US in a wave of migration that took place in the late 1960s.
- [14:56]
Mike Pesca
How is he able to come to the information that disillusioned him?
- [15:01]
Edward Wong
Well, it's a pretty complicated story, but it's not untypical of what happened with a lot of Chinese citizens back then. So he joined the army in 1950, at the height of the Korean War. He was a young student in Beijing, dropped out of university to join the military because he was heeding Mao's call for young patriotic men to try and fight on the Korean peninsula against the American army that was backing the South Koreans, against the North Koreans and the Chinese. And so he marched in Tiananmen Square in front of Mao during one of these big military parades. He was one of the students. And then he dropped out, joined the military, went to train for the Air Force in the northeast, in the far northeast, near the Korean peninsula, was told that instead of going fighting Korea to go to the far northwest of China, near the border of Soviet Kazakhstan, this very remote area populated by Uyghur Muslims, Turkic Muslims, and eventually, years later, he finds out that he was sent out there because the Communist Party and the military didn't trust him. They didn't trust the fact that he came from this family of merchants in Hong Kong like a capitalist family. They didn't trust the fact that he came from British colony, which Hong Kong was at the time, and he didn't trust the fact that his brother, his older brother, four years Sam, had gone over to the US to Washington D.C. to study engineering on a US government scholarship. So he had all these family connections that raised red flags within the party, within the military. And they were, at that time, they were undergoing hunts for, you know, for potential subversive forces. They were purging people from the military and from the party. They were imprisoning many people. And my father ended up being one of those people that they didn't trust. And they kept a file on him. And he discovered that both by reading the file itself, which is often secret from Chinese citizens, while he was out there in the remote northwest area called Xinjiang. And then he had a conversation later with officials who said there were still many suspicions around his family.
- [17:03]
Mike Pesca
So it was the case that they didn't have reason not to trust him, but it was the mistrust that actually wound up perhaps justifying their mistrust, or better put, turned him who was ready to be on the ideological project that they were on, was ready turned him against them.
- [17:24]
Edward Wong
That's right. And I think that speaks a lot to what China was back then in the Mao era, that there were people who were willing to embrace that ideological project, and yet because of the slightest thing in their family background that might set off officials, they weren't trusted. And I think that also is a through line to today's China under Xi Jinping, where this sense of fear of party control and of ideology overtaking other things like expertise is coming back into play throughout China, and we see this coming to play in other countries around the world as well. So I think we're in this moment now, in our current time, when ideology is something that we're all grappling with and trying to keep at bay, forces of overly ideological forces, and that's happening in China. It's happening in China now. It would happen in my father's time.
- [18:20]
Mike Pesca
Doesn't it indict the weakness of the ideology or. I don't know. You have studied many people in many cultures. Is it the case that if an ideology like, say, maybe not in the last 20 years, but say the idealistic version of the American dream was working out, you wouldn't have to have so much enforcement or suspicion of those who wouldn't be buying it.
- [18:44]
Edward Wong
I don't. I mean, I. They have lived overseas, and I don't haven't tracked, you know, the recent history of, or at least 20th century History of the ideological struggles here in America. But I would say that from what I know about other countries, that oftentimes, if there is an ideology that subverts, you know, rational thought, common sense, things like that, and you become wedded to that ideology, then eventually a weakening your country nationally. And I think in the Mao era, that was very evident. Mao essentially purged people, got rid of senior officials in the party, got rid of people he had once trusted when he came into power, because one, he wanted to consolidate his power and two, he felt that they weren't ideologically wedded to his project. And even if they were patriots like my father was at the time, then they still came under suspicion. And I think that that led to economic disasters in China. It led to the great famine where 30 to 40 million people died in the late 1950s. It's insane period. One of the worst man made famines in history. And my father suffered during that period. He survived it. But it was also one of the factors that led him to flee China because he saw that the Maoist project was on this disastrous path and that China was collapsing, was imploding under Mao's. Mao's ideas.
- [20:15]
Mike Pesca
What is the contrast with the ideological beliefs of the citizens of China or the citizens of Beijing? Maybe different provinces will think different things. Is it generally the case that more modern Chinese people actually do buy into the ideology of the country than did maybe during your father's time of disillusionment?
- [20:39]
Edward Wong
The term ideology is an interesting one in today's China. I think it's much clearer back in the 1950s what the ideology generally was. And that was true of the Cold War, I think in general, where, you know, you and I grew up in an era when the Cold War was ending, we knew what communist ideology generally was with the Soviet Union, what Mao, Maoist and dunghest China were trying to propagate. But these days it's kind of murky. What ideology has really taken hold in China? I think for many Chinese, they remain skeptical of ideology. Xi Jinping, the current leader, is trying to impose ideological education at universities, in schools, things like this, where they're supposed to read certain books. But when you talk with your average Chinese person, especially younger people, they're fairly skeptical of all of it. And they think they might say we have to take the classes. But you can tell they don't really believe in this type of amorphous ideology that she is pushing. And she himself will say he is wedded to the traditional ideologies of Marxism and Leninism. But in my opinion, none of the policies he's pushing reflects actual Marxism. Is a Leninist in that he believes in tight control over the country and over its people by an organization that is all powerful and often secretive. And that's the Communist Party that we're talking about. That's a Leninist point of view. And to that degree, you might say he's an ideologue. But he also doesn't believe in the Marxist principles that galvanized lots of people in the early 20th century and that galvanized Mao and some of his. The early founders of the Communist Party. That's not. That doesn't seem to be really part of the foundation of principle that's at work right now in China.
- [22:34]
Mike Pesca
But would you say modern Chinese people are particularly nationalistic?
- [22:40]
Edward Wong
They are very nationalistic. And that's part of the theme that I explore in the book. I would say that, you know, there's a mixture of different things that have led to that. One is, of course, the rise of China. China has been enormously successful economically for decades now. And so there is a sense of strong patriotism among people that's risen in recent decades. They feel that they're part of this rejuvenated superpower, and they're part of a power that is essentially on par with America now. But there's also state propaganda, and Mao pushed forward that in the 1950s, which is why my father ended up joining the army. And Xi is really pushing forward. This propaganda centered around nationalism. Part of it is centered around anti American nationalism. So, for example, there have been some instances in recent years when Xi has obviously voiced anti American statements and he has had the government push forward things like using films about the Korean War or using speeches about the Korean War back in the 1950s, when they. Which is the last war that China and the US Fought to really serve, impress on people that America is an enemy or that America is a power to be suspicious of. And also in recent years, you see really telling the state security agencies and the population at large, oh, you have to beware of subversive elements in our society that are influenced by foreign forces, including America. And in a way, that's kind of an echo of what? Of sort of the paranoia that. And the campaigns that my father survived in the 1950s, because back then, Mao was telling party officials, beware of people in our country who have been influenced by foreign powers. And so that's essentially how my father fell under suspicion because he was from.
- [24:37]
Mike Pesca
A British colony, did it seem. I don't want to put words your mouth. What were the possibilities or likelihood that China was on a trajectory to become sort of a giant Singapore, so not a full democracy, as we would think about it, certainly with autocratic portions, but such an engine of growth and a place maybe that one day people Americans would choose to live in and delivering without oppression, without Too much outward oppression, delivering material benefits to the citizens.
- [25:13]
Edward Wong
I think in 2008, there was the possibility, or it seemed that way, that China would be this beacon for many people around the world. Whether it was ambitious students, business people, you know, nonprofit workers, whatever, to come there and make a living and engage with a superpower, that was the equivalent of what America had been. But I think within months of my arrival in China, I was disabused of some of the notions that I had about it, because I saw some of the measures that the government would take to suppress protests or suppress freedom of speech or assembly. For example, in the spring of 2008, the first big story reported on was this immense earthquake in southwest China and Sichuan province, where around 80,000 people were killed. And as a result of that earthquake, there were many collapses of school buildings where school children, thousands of school children died in the rubble, which is just horrendous. And the parents. Parents started taking to the streets in protest because they were so sad and angry and irate that the government and local government officials and construction companies had cut corners to build these schools. They called them tofu construction. And as a result, the children died. But what the government in the region and what the central government decided to do, instead of trying to really address the corruption that had been foundational to these school collapses, they instead decided to either try and quickly pay off the parents to keep them quiet, or arrest the leaders of these movements, put them in jail, and suppress, you know, the protests and suppress any media coverage of the process. So it. I think in many democratic societies, you would see the government trying to address the issues, especially when you have thousands of dead children. But here we saw party officials, government officials, moving quickly to quash the right of the parents to speak out instead.
- [27:19]
Mike Pesca
So the temptation or the. It was too attractive since they had this enormous, enormous amount of power and control, the tools of the state, was too attractive for them to do something other than address the underlying problem and the will of the people, complain to the people to either bribe, cajole, or suppress. And since then. And so that's when it became apparent to you that China was going to. Or this is how China plays the game and how China looks at governing. And since then, has it gotten worse, or was it just always consistent? And what occurred to you in that earthquake just strikes you or someone who's observing China again and again and again, is the way they do things?
- [28:05]
Edward Wong
Yeah, I mean, I. What happens that happened early on in my time there and over the nine years there, I saw the Same pattern. I saw it happen in different instances and also saw it happen on different scales. So, for example, one of the, you know, big continuing stories I covered was the ethnic struggle that took place between the Uyghur Muslims in northwest China and the controlling Han Chinese who were there as business people, as also their imperial military units. This was, in fact, the exact region of China that my father had been posted to when he was in the army as part of the initial military occupation to control this part of China. So I would go out to this fairly remote region frequently, and I would see these clashes that were taking place sometimes between some of the Muslims out there as well as some of the Han. And every time there were protests. One time there was a huge ethnic riot. The government would send in these paramilitary units to really crack down on the people, put them into prison in large numbers. And eventually, starting around 2016, we saw them setting up this mass system of internment camps in the area where they put an estimated 1 million Uyghur Kazakh and Kazakh Muslims there in order to try and pressure these citizens to drop a lot of their Islamic practices. They wanted essentially these people to become part of this mainstream Han culture, even though they were from different ethnicities and religions and distance themselves from this religion that they felt was fundamental to their culture.
- [29:44]
Mike Pesca
What years were you reporting that.
- [29:47]
Edward Wong
That started in 2016, which is the year I left China and continued onward through. I mean, it's still going on today. There are still many missing people in Xinjiang. They started letting large numbers of people out of some of these camps starting around 2019 or so. But they have kept many Uyghur Muslims in their prison system and sort of like the formal system of prisons where they were charged with subversion and then put into prison for many years.
- [30:11]
Mike Pesca
Can you. Can one get out the information from China as you did when you first started reporting there?
- [30:18]
Edward Wong
These days, I think reporters who work there tell me you can still get out the information. The government doesn't read over your shoulder. It doesn't. In general. It doesn't try and hack into your computer, for instance.
- [30:32]
Mike Pesca
And general, as far as you know.
- [30:35]
Edward Wong
Yeah, yeah. And there have been instances when I was. There were instances when they tried and hacked back into the. The system of the New York Times, for instance, and the Wall Street Journal and other publications. And we discovered that. But. But what is harder now for reporters who are working in China is when they travel outside of Beijing, they travel to other provinces, which is very important for importing China. They often get followed by the police. So then it's very difficult for them to interview sources because you don't want to endanger sources. I mean, the first rule is to protect your sources and so you don't want to put people in danger.
- [31:08]
Mike Pesca
And in fact, correspondents from China tell me that sources who would talk to them honestly and openly a decade ago now just will not even engage the same people.
- [31:18]
Edward Wong
Exactly. I was going to say I went there in 2023 and some of the people I used to know would meet with me, but in very secretive circumstances we had to play this elaborate game of like tradecraft in order to figure out where to meet. We would stay off your electronic devices and so we would talk. And they didn't have any state secrets to reveal to me. They just wanted to tell me how their lives are going. But just to do that we had to go through a whole elaborate cloak and dagger system just to meet up.
- [31:45]
Mike Pesca
Would you say that from the self interest of the rulers of China their tactics have worked out?
- [31:53]
Edward Wong
That's sort of one of the biggest questions looming over China. I would say that there is no doubt they are the most successful authoritarian state in the modern era from their point of view. I mean from the point of view of any autocrat or any authoritarian leader. Like no other country has been able to control the population using authoritarian means in this manner, keep a one party system in place and yet have the economic growth that China has had and come on par with the U.S. the Soviet Union didn't even come close in many of those aspects. They had nuclear weapons and that gave them superpower status and they controlled some countries around their, you know, on their borders. But they, nothing they did comes close to what China has achieved. Right.
- [32:39]
Mike Pesca
How true is it that the US or the west has a creativity edge on China?
- [32:45]
Edward Wong
You know what's funny is like during my time in China when I was there, there was often this line that people would say, a lot of China watchers would say, oh, China is great at getting things to scale economically, but that they're bad at innovating. Yes, the discourse has kind of been the opposite. I mean they still, people still say they're good at getting things to scale, but they're now saying, oh, China is overtaking the US in things like AI innovation, quantum computing, perhaps a space race. Definitely things like green energy. They're exporting electric vehicles all over the world, for instance.
- [33:21]
Mike Pesca
The name of the book is at the Edge of Empire Families Reckoning with China. I've been speaking with its author, New York Times correspondent Edward Wong. Thank you so much.
- [33:31]
Edward Wong
Thanks a lot, Mike. I appreciate being here.
- [33:44]
Mike Pesca
And now the spiel. It is the dumbest non story in America and has been for the past week or so. That really doesn't narrow it down, does it? Okay, some more clues. It keeps popping up in headlines. It's confusing. It was about the arrangement of words in a consistent color scheme and how a tweaked iconography was interpreted as giving cultural offense. Wait, that sounds a little like. But not like Sydney Sweeney and her jeans. Sydney Sweeney has for Keen. Oh, no, this one's far stupider. This one was.
- [34:16]
Edward Wong
Look around.
- [34:16]
Mike Pesca
Wow, look how bright it is.
- [34:18]
ZipRecruiter Announcer
A select number of stores undergoing a redesign for a more modern feel.
- [34:23]
Mike Pesca
We've got all new lighting, new seating, new tables and chairs.
- [34:26]
ZipRecruiter Announcer
This video is from a Tennessee location posted last August, just now going viral. While some are embracing the change, the.
- [34:34]
Edward Wong
Paint color is just so much lighter.
- [34:36]
Mike Pesca
And I think it's so much better.
- [34:38]
ZipRecruiter Announcer
Others argue the remodel chips away at that Southern charm.
- [34:42]
Mike Pesca
But the inside remodel, Cracker Barrel for real. At this point in the narration, what I should be doing is stepping back and orienting you, the listeners, what exactly the controversy was. But I'm telling you, if you are in a state of ignorance about this, preserve that. Hold on to that. I envy you. Everything is better if you don't know. It's not that it's outrageous or offensive, it's just literally nothing. A medium sized chain restaurant tweaked its logo a little. That was it. Literally. The signs outside the stores were were to have the same colors, kind of different font, but not. The picture of an old guy sitting next to a barrel is a little like when Burger King phased out Sir Shakes A Lot. Remember him? No, of course you don't. You're normal. You don't hold on to such things. And back then there were important things going on. We had a gas crisis. The president was trying to get hostages back. Amy Carter didn't have a reliable outlet to broadcast her thoughts about Sir Shakes A Lot. But that is what's going on here. Don Jr. Has weighed in on the Cracker Barrel redesign being woke. I don't even understand the complaint. Oh, by the way, in case you thought I made up Sir Shakes A Lot, he existed.
- [36:01]
Edward Wong
What Shaking kids.
- [36:04]
Mike Pesca
Who's that kid meets their Shake A Lot.
- [36:07]
Edward Wong
Sir Shake A Lot. My name. Drinking shakes is my game. When Shake A Lot Thirsty.
- [36:12]
Mike Pesca
He loves a good shake. It's so cold and frosty, it makes him quake. And then he didn't exist and it was fine. It was barely noticed. And this was how it should be. I mean, in the summer of the elimination of Sir Shakes a lot inflation was 14.5%. So I'm not going to say all was great with America, but the jittery, shaky guy didn't really play into any of our national conversations. So I really can add the most about the Cracker Barrel redesign by adding very little. But I will end with this. This is the only interesting thing about it, I think. So here is how the redesign of the Cracker Barrel sign went. There was a sign and then they did away with that sign. So it was a D sign. They designed a D sign and then they scrapped the plan for a new design. So it was a D D sign and now they've reverted back to the original. Which brings us to the RE design. That's what happened. It was a redesign. And that is the story of the Cracker Barrel redesign as far as you need to know. Which is, I'm going to say, not at all. Now gather round while I tell you the story of Blimpy Bear. And that's it for today's show. Corey War is the producer of the gist. Ashley Cott is the production coordinator. Asher Green is our social media coordinator. Leo Baum. He wanted to come to the meeting today and I said no Leo, you just relax, relax. Kathleen Sykes writes the Gist list. Philip Swissgood chips in on that. Michelle Pesca oversees so much of the goings on here at the gist, including our very controversial redesign. Improve to Peru. And thanks for listening.
- [38:08]
Liquid IV Advertiser
It's Labor Day weekend and you deserve a treat like 25% off all your Liquid IV favorites and podcast exclusive gifts with purchase during Liquid IV's Labor Day sale. Happening now. Just go to liquid IV.com and use code LIV Pods at checkout. There's never been a better time to stock up on all your favorite hydration. From sugar free flavors like Raspberry Lemonade to the fan favorite Hydration Multiplier, Cotton Candy and more. This is a limited time offer so stock up before it ends. Just one stick of liquid IV and 16 ounces of water hydrates you better than water alone. It's three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink with eight vitamins and nutrients for refreshing on the go hydration. So don't miss stocking up on all your favorites. Tear Pour live more. Go to LiquidIV.com and use code LIVPODS at checkout to get 25% off site wide plus exclusive gifts with purchase. That's code LIVPODS@LIVIDIV.com Marketing is hard, but.
- [39:10]
Libsyn Ads Announcer
I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to libsynads. Com. That's L, I B S Y N Ads. Com. Today.