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A
Celebrate America's 250th with Dish for a limited time. Get an extra $250 off when you sign up. Call 888-add-d dish or visit dish.com today and use code DISH250 to claim your $250 savings. That's 888 Add Dish. Offer ends August 12th. Terms apply. Foreign. It's Friday, June 26, 2026, from Peach Fish Productions, it's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca. There's a great essay in the Atlantic by Annie Lowery about the economy. It's called the Vibe Session Is Over. The Perma Session is Here. And I really thought it would be one of these essays that takes fire and gets everyone talking. But it's not. You know, how the Internet works. This is actually a month old essay. So I guess it was out there and maybe some people who wanted to talk about it did. But man, I think this essay gets right at it, especially in light of the recent victories by the members of the DSA in New York, which I've been thinking too much about. If you're living, I don't know, anywhere else, or even the parts of New York that were won by Michael Asher or Richie Torres. You're probably just thinking, all right, we got normal regular Democrats going back to Congress. But you know, part of the DSA's appeal, which does get a lot of hype, is that they're putting their finger on the economic anxiety that people, especially young people, are right to feel. And what Lowery is saying, and she is standing to say it because she aptly documented how bad things were for years and years and years. As a writer, as someone who followed economics, what she is saying is that for a time we were in a place where the numbers really weren't that bad and we called it a Vibe session. But now the the numbers are just good. In fact, the reality is good. Not just the numbers, the reality. I'll read some of this essay. Americans are expressing some of the deepest, broadest and stubbornness, most stubborn economic pessimism ever recorded. They're doing so even though nearly every American who wants a job has one. And the stock market is booming. The economy is delivering significant improvements in living standards for the majority of American families across the income spectrum. The economy is pretty darn great. She says that disposable income, real disposable income, shows that Americans have never had it better. It's at a record high. What about inequality? Sure. For some people, no. Inequality has been easing on all the Economic measures which reflect the economic realities, things are good and getting better. And she does the necessary caveating. It's not for everyone. And people are anxious and especially young people are having a little more difficulty finding a job because the labor market, though tight, a lot of people are reticent to hire and home prices are high. Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. But what we would normally call this economy is something like great. And what we call it now is not just less than great, but according to the Michigan survey, the worst ever. And she says it's not a vibe session, it's a perma session. So I have two points on this. One is that I think one of the reasons we called it a vibe session and I had Kyla Scanlon on and she was the one who coined the phrases. We just fell overly in love with the word vibe. There was a vibes renaissance. There was an article in New York magazine about the vibe shift, which I guess kind of meant that she talked about like I think pant length or the pants that were a little baggy. That was part of it. But also something like we were getting over what they called peak woke. But we just kept saying vibes and it's a vibe. And you know, sometimes words become way too popular and overused and over applied. So part of it is that. But I really just think we're an unbelievably pessimistic people. It is hard for us to see through to the reality of things. We have a media, and I really try not to do this, we have a media that panders to catastrophizing. So very few in the media, unless they want to be called, I don't know, a contrarian or someone who stands apart from where the common person is. You know, the media will always press politicians, but people aren't feeling it. And no politician could say, well, maybe they should or the people are wrong. You don't get elected that way. So politicians are made to pander. I think the media shouldn't be, but the media is. But when I say the media, I just don't mean people on talk shows. I mean our media apparatus. How our social media ecosystem is optimized absolutely for pessimism or optimism about silly things like memes about dogs. So this is a serious issue. I think it's going to persist. I don't exactly know a way out of it. And our politics, as they say, are downstream from our culture. And our culture has decided that no matter how good the economy gets, if it's not perfect in every dimension, then we're right to say, well, people aren't feeling it or well, homeownership feels out of reach for people in their 30s, which isn't that huge a difference from the way things usually are or have been in the past. So I do think we have a perma session. I do think we have a politics that talks about the world as being way worse than it is. I do think that the this makes us not able to recognize progress. And I do think people like me will be criticized as overly optimistic when we're not. I think that we're just actually seeing the numbers and the reality, the lived reality as it's actually being lived but not being felt. And my solution? Read Atlantic pieces the day they come out, not a month later on the show. Today, ready for me to take a left turn? It's Graham K. He's a great comedian. It's a funny you should mention really. I did tear up a little in this interview, the way he talks about his brother who is autistic. The new special is Pete and me. Here's Graham K. I've been working on creating a more peaceful nighttime routine for deeper sleep. That is until my two puppies come and they live in my room. Anyway. The biggest upgrade or the Puppy Defense fund wasn't aromatherapy. It wasn't meditation. It wasn't listening and setting my intention or playing some sort of backing track. That was the whales. It was my King mattress from Lisa. Turns out the best hack to improve your sleep is to address what you've been sleeping on. And since making the switch, I unwind easier, sleep deeper and wake up feeling energized. My bed is my happy place. Soon the dogs will be on it. I'll have only my Lisa to protect me. This is a thing of beauty that lets me get my beauty sleep. 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It's 30% off and then we'll also give you an extra $50 off. Support our show and let them know we sent you a checkout. Lisa.com promo code the Gist. Did you know that when helping older Navy dolphins, a researcher unlocked a secret to healthy aging for all of us, even the non dolphins among us. And you know, everyone loves dolphins and I hope I can convince you to love yourself just like our flippered friends. You're worth it. I'm excited to share with you guys. C15 from fatty15, the first emerging essential fatty acid to be discovered in more than 90 years. It's an incredible scientific breakthrough. It supports long term health and wellness and healthy aging. So the founder of Fatty 15, Dr. Stephanie Van Watson, discovered the benefits of C15 while working with the US Navy to continually improve the health and welfare of older dolphins. She went to the dolphin retirement home and she noticed some of them were really thriving. What do they have? It's what is now called C15. She did studies on cellular fragility syndrome caused by the lack of 3c15. As many as 1 in 3 people. I can't give you the dolphin percentage worldwide may have C15 levels and fragile cells. We're all aging, which means that healthy aging starts from birth. Studies have shown that C15 is a foundational nutrient for you and for flipper. I'm taking fatty 15. They give it to you in a nice glass vial. I pop one on every day and I have to say I feel a little bit more energy. And I've been very successful at disabling bombs with my nose underwater. Now I joke about that, but I do feel a little Vim. Fatty 15 was developed to support healthy aging for all from kids to parents to grandparents. That's why award winning fatty 15 is now available as pure capsules, delicious Apple mint gummies for teens and adults, and Yummy Berry Blast gummies for kids. Fatty 15 is on a mission to support healthy aging for all, including all ages and stages of life. You can get an additional 15% off their 90 day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com gist and using code GIST at checkout. The 2026 primaries are all around us and you could trade the biggest political races on Cowshi. On Kalshee, you could trade major primaries, election outcomes and the biggest political storylines as they happen. Like you could pick who will win the Senate, the Democrats or the Republicans. Or let's take California. Will Karen Bass or Naima Raymond win the California mayor race? Right now, Bass is currently trading at 63%, meaning $100 trade would pay out. That's $155 if she wins the mayor's race. You could bet on when Jay Clayton will be confirmed, or when will traffic at the Strait of Hormuz return to normal? It's pretty close. 64% 65% as I speak, ticked up 1% before September 1, 2026. So bet 100. What's that, 65% you win about a little less than 150. 147148 on Kalshi, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. As the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position for a limited time, download the Kalshi app and use code gist to get $10 when you trade 10k a l s h I kalshi trade on anything 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see kalshee.com regulatory working outside in the springtime means you're dealing with chilly mornings and hot afternoons and everything in between. Working outside in summer is a whole other kettle of, well, wetness. And that's where your workwear that you're wearing of cotton blends isn't working. It restricts your movement. It gets soaked after a few few raindrops. But True Work uses advanced performance fabrics to build products designed specifically for work on the job site. And I'm also going to introduce you to the T2 work pant, which keeps you comfortable over a wide range of conditions. I use the T2 use it, I wear it. I also have these great shorts the Wicking. Just the Wicking. It's an excellent, excellent way to look fashionable and actually get the job done. The work doesn't stop just because the weather changes. Upgrade to the T2 work pant and stay comfortable no matter what the day brings. Get 15 off your first order at truewerk.com with code the gist that's T R U E W-E-R-K.com code the gist true Work Built like it matters, because it does.
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B
Sure, I will not say my brother has a disability anymore. He's got that little thing where if he was left alone, he'd be dead. Yeah, whatever you want to call that.
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A
Hello, we're with Graham K. And much like Canada, the landmass from which he originates, he is a good 50% bigger than the United States itself. He's out with a relatively new special, which I'm not a crier. 45 minutes in, it did make me cry. Really? Allow me to cry. It's called Pete and Me about. Well, he'll tell you all about it. And I do have this promise for you. In this episode of Funny you should mention, 45 minutes in, you will cry. And if you don't, that's on you. Hello, Greg.
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B
In this podcast, they will cry.
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A
45 minutes and set a timer, Joe. We're going to get to 45 minutes and someone will pull a nose hair from someone else and crying will occur. I've seen you even in your special. You have various degrees of facial hair. And now you're right about in the middle.
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B
I. I'm doing. Trying this new thing where no fan or potential fan will be able to recognize me.
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A
Good. That's good branding.
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B
I'm trying to just. Yeah, I'm trying to, like, no momentum. That's what we're trying to do.
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A
No mentum tour.
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B
No mentum, no momentum. Yeah. It's like you're trying to just live your life and not think about branding.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And then you should be thinking about branding.
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A
Probably.
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B
I should be wearing a little hat.
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A
Yeah.
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B
I should be doing something. I should look the same.
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A
Catchphrase. What about a catchphrase?
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B
Yes, yes.
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A
Well, some. There are some people who are good comics who are not looked down upon, who do have a cat. We're having fun here. Do have a catchphrase that people like and get behind.
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B
Sure, sure. But like, like, we're having fun to
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A
the catchphrase when you pull the car into park and it's all about, yeah,
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B
yeah, yeah, but we're having fun here is like an homage. Like, I, like, we both know that. I know this is silly.
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A
Yes.
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B
You know what I mean?
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A
Yes.
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B
Dusty Slayer, right? Yes, yes, yes. So, like, he knows what he's doing. He's not like, we're having fun here, you know, but he, he, he gets it. Same thing with comedy, you know what I mean? Like, he got. He, you know, it's a joke on. It's making fun of that in a way. So I, I don't know, but I, I will. If you think about it, every single successful Artist has like a consistent. Their head looks the same for like 20 years.
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A
Yeah, that is true.
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B
You know, and what I do is I change it every six months completely.
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A
That's right. People change their look, but the head does stay very identifiable. Even Madonna reinvented herself. How many years. Different hairstyles, but the head is a consistent head.
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B
She's trying to keep it the same.
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A
Yes.
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B
Through surgery and yes. You know, but at least she's the effort. She understand. I don't understand. Yes, I. And I have looked the same. I've always looked about 39. From age 25 to I'm now 44. I've looked kind of the same and I could have gone that route and I. It's just like, it's really hard. I've been doing comedy for 20 years. I haven't had a day job in 12 and. But still, I wonder what could have happened if I just had the same head the whole time.
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A
Same head. And that's why head. Head permanence. Right. Is very important. This is why when you're a great. They say, we're gonna put you on whatever your field is, let's say comedy. We'll put you on the Mount Rushmore of comedy. Four heads frozen in times.
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B
Four heads. You're right.
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A
The consistency is the point of Mount Rushmore.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
Also the hugeness. What's on your Mount Rushmore of comedy? Madonna.
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B
Madonna. She did a stand up set on. She did a late night stand up set. I forget. I Probably for Jimmy Fallon. All right. Yeah, I want to do this. And she tried it and so she did a late night set and it's so bad. I'm sure it was scruffy, the Internet. But if you, you should try and find it. It's. It's great. It's really great. It's great for you.
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A
To show you that obviously she understands performing, connecting with an audience, all these things. She thinks herself funny and she couldn't be worse than the worst comic at karaoke. It's the same thing.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I have a Picasso over my fireplace. I mean, I'm not bragging or anything.
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A
He looks at that, he goes, I know who that is.
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B
Good.
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A
Who is that?
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B
He's like Picasso. I'm like, good. He said he painted the Mona Lisa, didn't he? We broke up anyways, so my Mount Rushmore, I don't know. I have a lot of trouble with that. Yeah. You know Bill Cosby, number one. Okay, Number two. Bill Cosby, right? Yeah. Gary Glitter. Number three. Okay, some.
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A
Well, who's the other BBC host?
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B
That guy, the documentary, that crazy hair guy. I was trying to think of him. Prince Andrew Epstein. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
They are funny. They're funny, funny people. A funny man.
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B
I, I mean, look, Norm MacDonald, Eddie Pepitone, I love them. They make me laugh a lot. I love Rory Scoville, I love John Doar. Trying not to, I mean, you know, like early what I mean, killing Them Softly is probably my favorite special of all time. Dave Chappelle, like early Dave Chappelle. You know, I, there's, there, there's so many. But you know, mostly straight white guys come to mind right now.
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A
Norm's case, a Canadian from Ottawa. Yes, from Ottawa.
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B
Ottawa, yeah, I'm from Ottawa. Ottawa is the capital city of Canada. It's not a province, it's not a state, it's a city. And from Ottawa we have Norm MacDonald, we have Dan Aykroyd, we have Tom Green, who I know is not. But he's, you know, he was an
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A
innovator in his time.
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B
He's a good stand up too. We have John Doerr and Alanis Morissette.
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A
Oh, really?
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B
Yeah.
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A
See, I ought to know that.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
But the kids in the hall, from what I understand, some of them were from Calgary and some of them were from Toronto and they actually have different sensibilities. They tell me I've had like four kids on the hall and I tried to crack this. I love them. I think they're very funny.
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B
I wrote on a TV show where Dave Foley was the star.
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A
Yeah, a Canadian show or American?
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B
Canadian. And it was like a multicam sitcom and we had an episode where all of them came back as, you know, they, they played characters but they were all on the show.
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A
Right.
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B
It was like for a guy my age. Yeah, that was.
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A
Which can be anywhere from the Beatles
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B
came and I got to write for them. I got to write a song for the Beatles and they had to play my music. It was crazy.
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A
The reboot that they did had some just absolute bangers of sketches. It wasn't maybe all great, but then again, if you go back to the original episodes, we remember the great ones and maybe 100%. Yes, yes.
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B
There were some real swear on this.
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A
Of course car
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B
mechanics that just are having sex with your car. You're like, what's going on back there? Nothing.
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A
The one where they got very meta and said, no, this is a Dave Foley sketch. No, it's not. It's a Kevin sketch in this antique store. I Love that one. I guess I could talk Canadian culture all day.
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B
We don't have to, but damn it. Yeah, we should.
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A
I heard you on a podcast where you were talking about Tim Hortons donuts.
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B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
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A
That was a good podcast.
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B
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. The Consumers with Greg Warren.
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A
Right. I love Greg Warren.
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B
Hilarious comedian.
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A
Yeah, he is. He's.
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B
He inspires me.
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A
I'm glad he's good. I saw him at a very small comedy club in Maine, and I've been trying to get him on the show, and he doesn't realize how huge it is. So, yes, Greg Warren is good. He.
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B
Yeah, I'll tell him.
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A
So your parents were what generation? There's a little bit in the special where you talk essentially about how your whole history fled the Nazis. And your parents were born where?
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B
My mother was born in the south of France.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Her parents were without a country there, but. But they're from Czechoslovakia, so my mother is Czechoslovakian.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Now they split into 1993. Well, after the world. After the war. She's technically Slovakian.
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A
Right. So they were originally Czech and Slovakia. Then they were Czechoslovakia. Now they're back. Yeah.
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B
Right. But anyway. Anyways. But they. They had to flee.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Post war, and they were kind of waylaid in the south of France, where my mother was born. And then they sold a Picasso ceramic bowl for a boat ride to Canada.
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A
I wanted to ask you about that. How did they come to acquire a ceramic bowl from Picasso?
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B
He. My grandfather was a art collector. He was like. He was the head of the Czechoslovak consulate in Marseille, France, before the communists took over and, you know, cut off his money and then killed all of his friends. And so he had extra money and he would just buy art.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And he bought a lot of Eastern European art from Slovakia, Ukraine, and he bought a bunch of art in the south of France. And, you know, Picasso was. Was famous, but he was still alive. For Picasso died in the 70s.
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A
Picasso lived a long time. But I was trying. That's what I was trying to do. Kind of place the timing. He must have.
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B
This is like 1948, 1947.
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A
So he bought Veronica had come out. But he maybe invested in it before Picasso became so otherworldly famous.
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B
Yeah, it's like a limited print is what it is. It's not like he made one bowl and then my grandfather bought it. You know, he molded something and then they. They molded. They. They made 10 bowls out of it or whatever they did. And then they broke the mold. Right.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So then you.
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A
That's where that expression Comes from there you go, oh my gosh.
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B
And then, you know what's funny is I didn't know that's where it came from.
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A
Did you just talk yourself into it?
- [24:47]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do learn a lot from hearing myself speak.
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A
It'll be bad if it's the only way you learned.
- [24:57]
B
Yeah. There are some people I have something
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A
to tell you about. I don't want to interrupt, but I want to tell you about an expression that you use on stage, but go ahead.
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B
Oh, I'm probably wrong, but they. Anyway, they. It was still worth a lot. Enough for a boat ride anyway.
- [25:11]
A
Yeah, both for a boat. Right?
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B
That's right. And then they, they got. They came to Canada and So do
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A
you think that your sensibility was formed obviously by being Canadian and obviously by being the son of immigrants, but how about specifically being the son of immigrants in Canada?
- [25:30]
B
Yeah, definitely. I think so. There's a thing about American comedy. I think Americans are the best at stand up. It's always like British versus American, you know.
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A
Right.
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B
I think it's an American art form, but I think America, American comedy is dominated disproportionately by black people, Jewish people and Canadians. Because I think that. Not that we're like subjugated in any way, but I think it helps to be an outsider looking in who completely understands the culture they're talking about. They completely understand the culture they're talking about. Whereas like somebody who just comes from a different country and starts doing. Commenting on it, most of their comedy is going to end up being like, why is it House and, And Mao and many. And then Houses, House, Houses and not Mice, Mice's Ice.
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A
Right.
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B
Yes. And then the.
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A
Hahaha.
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B
You know, the other comedies like that. And so I don't know. I think, I think, I think that's why. Yes, that helped me a lot.
- [26:52]
A
So I also think that the Canadians can slip in not as the other, much more easily than the Jews and the black. Like, if you didn't tell people that you were Canadian, I think a small percentage would ever know for sure.
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B
For sure. I. There are there. I think it's like. Well, for. I mean, black people have it the easiest.
- [27:19]
A
Yes, of course. We can all agree on that.
- [27:20]
B
We can all agree on that.
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A
You know, black trans people. That's right.
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B
Yeah. Two choices. But no, they. It's definitely super easy for us to slip in there and then. But then we're like goofier.
- [27:35]
A
Yeah.
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B
It comes as a surprise.
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A
Do you do the thing where you have Kandar or whatever, the version Is like, even if someone isn't Canadian, you'll know they're Canadian. Things other than accent.
- [27:47]
B
It's usually accent. Yeah, Usually accent. It's like a very subtle thing. But for sure there are like, my accent has shifted partially on purpose, but also just living here for almost 20 years.
- [28:02]
A
Yeah.
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B
And. And like I would just go on auditions when I lived in LA and it was like, it was a problem. It was like saying. Literally saying house, saying left tenant. Not reading the script and changing it. It's what it should be. It's not a colonel, it's a leftover tenant. Whatever.
- [28:20]
A
Yeah, I guess so. So I have interviewed a few Canadian comics on the show and they don't all have the same experience. Yeah, I think Robbie Hoffman had a. You know, she's a Canadian comic, but she's also has.
- [28:35]
B
She's an American. She's a New York Jewish person.
- [28:38]
A
Yes. But bonafide Canadian who went school in Canada. And she doesn't have the same critique of the Canadian comedy system that a few others had, which is that nurturing up to a point and stifling. That's what they said. And is that, Is that what you found? I mean, how long have you been doing comedy in America versus Canada?
- [28:55]
B
Well, I'm not the best person to ask because I, I like started here.
- [29:01]
A
Yeah.
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B
I did a few open mics in Canada, then just moved here without proper.
- [29:06]
A
But you were on this Dave Foley show in Canada.
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B
I ended up moving back to Canada because I got deported from America.
- [29:12]
A
Is this true?
- [29:13]
B
Yes.
- [29:13]
A
But was it the killing or something else?
- [29:16]
B
Well, they didn't find out about that, but it was just littering because America
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A
doesn't draw the line on that.
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B
Usually I just, I, I like. Long story short, I just didn't really have proper documentation and I tried to get around it and it's really hard if you're trying to become a famous person.
- [29:35]
A
Right. So that's why you've been changing your facial expression. We backed into the explanation.
- [29:40]
B
So I had to go back to Canada and then start fresh. Whatever.
- [29:44]
A
But what years was that was the deportation years.
- [29:47]
B
2011. I moved here, moved to New York in 2006 and lived for five years in New York. Started with a bunch of successful people who are now successful in stand up. And in 2011 I had to leave and then I moved to Canada for four years and then I moved to LA for two and then I moved back here. So to New York. So those. Basically, I don't have a good. A full understanding of the limitations, but I can tell you that in the three, four years that I lived in Canada that was the overwhelming feeling from comedians that live there. Like we like it's a lot easier in Canada to quit your day job as a stand up and make like $40,000 a year. But to you know, make, be, be like a millionaire is, is like really, really, really hard because the population is 820,000 real dollars.
- [30:48]
A
Yeah.
- [30:49]
B
We don't have to pay for health care or live in a walden city but that they, they it there. There's just not enough population. It's spread out and unlike Australia or South Africa or like, or or England, they have their own accent. And like we don't have our own accent. It's like close enough like say for like six words I discussed earlier. So it's just easier for Canadian networks and, and to like import American shows. So it doesn't. They don't have to do anything.
- [31:22]
A
Right?
- [31:22]
B
They do have to do. They have to make some shows but
- [31:24]
A
they have to make two a year. Some quoting one or two a year. Radio stations have to play a certain number of Canadian bands.
- [31:30]
B
Yeah. So like that it's like so. But there just isn't, there just isn't that amount of opportunity. Whereas if you go to like a smaller country like Australia, there's way more opportunity. If you're a French Canadian, there's way more opportunity because they have their own, they have their own language. So they need to create their own stars. There's only 5 million people living in Quebec. That's the French part of Canada. But they have way more stars because their accent and culture is completely different than France. So it's like that they have to. Whereas anyway, so it did seem like there was a limit and you had, if you wanted to do anything more than being like a road dog just grinding out a lower middle class life, you, you had to leave.
- [32:10]
A
But by the way, you explained it very well. But not coincidentally, I think that's how each society sees itself and kind of says well if we ideally set it up we'd have a society where you can make a living but we deprioritize making a lot of money. That's the Canadian way. And yeah, it's going to be unbelievably hard. But if you make it's some version of superstardom, that's the American way.
- [32:37]
B
Yeah, for sure. But it's skewed even further. Like the Canadian society, it's like if you're not in entertainment, if you're an English speaking Canadian not in Entertainment. It's easier than in America to make $100,000.
- [32:56]
A
Yeah.
- [32:57]
B
But it's harder to be a billionaire.
- [32:59]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
- [33:01]
B
But because there's no entertainment in Canada, a hundred thousand goes down to 30. It's like, it's like not. Which is super fun when you're 28, you know, and you're just people, you know, they're yuck. Yucks is paying you to fly to someplace and perform or whatever and, and yeah, but. But then, then you hit like your mid-30s and you're like, I want a life. Yeah. I'm just, I can't live off onion rings anymore. A bowel movement in four days.
- [33:35]
A
You could call them Funyuns, but at a certain point they stop being fun. They really do.
- [33:39]
B
Yeah.
- [33:40]
A
Oppressions.
- [33:41]
B
Yeah.
- [33:42]
A
Yes.
- [33:42]
B
Thank you.
- [33:43]
A
The.
- [33:43]
B
Oh, just.
- [33:44]
A
This is out of curiosity and maybe I picked up, you didn't want to talk about it for some reason, but when you went back for four years, was there a. Like you had to get out of Dodge to reset? Was there some sort of immigration deal?
- [33:58]
B
Well, I mean, tell me if you
- [34:00]
A
don't want to talk about what kind of.
- [34:01]
B
I got my citizenship so I can, I can talk more freely about this. But like I. Mohammed Khalil. Yeah, I. Yeah, no, I, I was, I was like on a tourist visa and I might have been a waiter part time.
- [34:19]
A
Chelsea.
- [34:20]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:21]
A
Just wondering, how'd you know? You joke about it.
- [34:24]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah. And then, and then like, you know, working on the table, blah, blah, blah, and, you know, pick it up. I get passed at comedy clubs and I have to turn them down because they paid by check. So I'd only audition at comedy clubs that paid by cash in New York. And then I was leaving a bar. It was 3am it was the end of the month. They had quotas in New York precincts, and I guess this particular precinct hadn't filled their quota of arrest that month. And so they were just cruising around in playing clothes, playing cars, looking for people to arrest. And the person I was with was tagging an outdoor atm and I made fun of her. I was like, you're drawing, you're doing your little tag. I was like. We were like 28. I was like, we're almost 30. Why are you doing graffiti? Want to see my tag from high school? And then I did my tag and then guys wearing like T shirts and jeans came from behind and started slamming us into like that pull down grate on a bodega. And then I, I didn't know who it Was So I elbowed one on the side of the head. And then it's a police officer, and I'm charged with, like, hitting a police officer. I'm charged with vandalism. And I go to jail for, you know, a weekend and.
- [35:43]
A
Did you try to argue? I was only tagging sarcastically. Because you were. If you weren't a comedian, you. You probably would just walked away and be fine.
- [35:51]
B
I did. I. To the police. They didn't care.
- [35:53]
A
They didn't care about sarcasm. You would think New York cops would care about sarcasm. They were so happy right now, lady.
- [36:00]
B
They were so happy to beat up some hipsters.
- [36:03]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:03]
B
And. And they loved how much it hurt my wrists. Because I always think, like, when you watch, like, cowboy movies and they, like, handcuff you, I'm like, I. Dude. Or if I was like, in, like, you know, whatever, handcuffs, and I didn't want. I was like, I could probably get out. I can make my wr. Just like. Like this and I can probably slip out. But what they do is they put it behind your bone and they do it so hard that it, like, pinches with metal.
- [36:29]
A
Right.
- [36:30]
B
And it really, really hurts.
- [36:31]
A
Right.
- [36:32]
B
And if you have a good lawyer,
- [36:33]
A
they'll arrange for you to be handcuffed in front and maybe even throw a jacket over it. That's all the lawyers can really do, but it's much better. Yeah.
- [36:41]
B
I see in the white collar crimes.
- [36:42]
A
That's right. He's gonna. He's gonna surrender, but you have to handcuff him in front and he's gonna put a jacket on it. This is why people go to law school for that move.
- [36:53]
B
It's nice. Yeah, I didn't have that. I had a public defender and I wanted to stay on top of her docket, so I sent her Edible Arrangements, which is, like, weirdly looking back on it. Too romantic.
- [37:07]
A
Was it like the melons? The like, carved melons?
- [37:10]
B
Yeah, with like, chocolate, strawberry.
- [37:12]
A
I don't know. Maybe like, most of her clients were best sending a muffin basket or I'm gonna guess nothing because they're penniless. Yeah. An interesting client, a Canadian, who sent me Edible Arrangements, and I, like, had
- [37:25]
B
a. I had to leave for a comedy festival in Scotland, and so they probably would have just never gone to trial and they would have thrown it out. Cuz. Yeah, by law it's like three months or. Or no, it's like four weeks or something that you have to go to see the. See the judge. But then they have so many, like, murders in Brooklyn. You never. The Guy who tagged an atm, never. You know what I mean?
- [37:46]
A
Right.
- [37:46]
B
But because I was leaving and coming back, I didn't want an open case because I was worried about getting a green card later. I didn't want to be leaving with an open case. I didn't know. I couldn't. Google wasn't that good back then. I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't ask anyone. I asked my defender. She didn't know. I asked my friend's dad, who was a lawyer. He was like, what? And so I just said, can you push my case forward? And when you push your case forward, they throw the book at you, like the judge, like the local DA or whatever.
- [38:18]
A
System expedient. They hate it.
- [38:19]
B
Yes. They go, oh, you do, do you?
- [38:21]
A
Interesting.
- [38:22]
B
A comedian has to go to Scotland. Does he? And so they threw the book at me.
- [38:26]
A
Was it the Edinburgh Festival?
- [38:28]
B
It was the Glasgow Comedy Festival, which is like. I mean, it's. You make. So I made. I've made a million dumb decisions in my life. One of them was pushing my trial forward for the Glasgow Comedy Festival. And I mean, I really almost went to jail for beating up a copy. Yeah, my lawyer said that there was a cte. Not cte, that's something else. That's. That's probably what.
- [38:51]
A
I have brain disease from playing hockey.
- [38:54]
B
There's a cctv, closed caption television back then. But, yeah. Really, it's just a. Like. Yeah, like a circuit television.
- [39:04]
A
Right. No one cares about the captions.
- [39:06]
B
Like a. Yeah, a ring doorbell or whatever, like across the street caught it all on and which I don't think it did. And then we got thrown out, so. Because it would look like police abuse or whatever. So it got thrown out. But I really almost went to jail and then I definitely would never have gotten a performing arts visa. I would have never got a green card and I certainly wouldn't be on. Funny.
- [39:32]
A
You should mention you caught a glance of the sign.
- [39:36]
B
So.
- [39:36]
A
Do you ever joke about this on stage? I didn't know about this. This is fascinating.
- [39:41]
B
No, I mean, I have a joke about it that's like in the end of my special where it is true what happened at the. Like. So I. I talk about how I. The special is called Pete and Me. It's about my brother who has autism and it's about. The whole special is real stories about what it's like growing up with a person with a disability and what it means growing up and what it means going forward. And it's like funny stories and about. Just about life you know, and touching
- [40:16]
A
stories, really illuminating stories. We'll get to it in a second.
- [40:20]
B
Thanks, Mike. So I went to jail in Brooklyn for this. And they give you a phone call, but they call for you, and you have to just verbally tell them a phone number. That's how it works. It's not like you get to make a phone call. And the only number I could remember, because it's cell phone times, was my childhood phone number. So I call that number in Ottawa, Canada. They call that number, rather, from the Brooklyn jail to Ottawa, Canada. And my parents were out walking the dog, so my brother picked up.
- [40:57]
A
Yeah.
- [40:58]
B
And he has autism. And they were like, this is central booking in New York City. Do you know a Graham K. My brother was like, no. And we always pretend we're Bert and Ernie. He goes, but I do know a Bert.
- [41:14]
A
He did not. Oh, my God.
- [41:15]
B
And then they were like, what? And they hung up because they thought he was, like, a crackhead or something. And then I just was in jail for four days.
- [41:22]
A
Oh, my God.
- [41:22]
B
Yeah.
- [41:23]
A
Oh, my gosh. You. That's unbelievable. You. Your stage Persona, I was gonna say, is that of a very nice guy. Even though you tell a lot of stories that are. They're not. That they're not nice. But if you were to. Just to look at the transcript, you know, minutes. Yeah. You get a finger up your ass at one point, you have chlamydia at another point, you're in jail at this point. But, like, I don't think anyone ever would say, oh, Graham K. He's edgy. He's confrontational. He's very nice. You cultivate that. Like, how does that work?
- [41:59]
B
I don't know. I like to have a good time. Doesn't always go well. I will say that I do have, like, a bad temper.
- [42:08]
A
Yeah.
- [42:08]
B
That doesn't. Doesn't seem like I do. And I. Yeah, I don't. I don't. Yeah. But as I'm getting older, like, it's. I don't. I don't have that. That bad of a temper anymore, but I definitely was, like, pretty bad in, like, my 20s and 30s. And. Yeah, it's just sort of like my dad has it. You know, his dad had it, and it's, like, trying. Now that I have a son, it's like, I'm glad that I'm really old. I'm 44. I haven't. I'm having a. I just had a kid, and I'm, like, glad. So I'm not gonna hand that down,
- [42:46]
A
you know, thus negating the premise and thesis of Pete and me having a kid. There's a lot of lies in there. Now it turns out it's not a lie.
- [42:53]
B
I wrote that I didn't know I was gonna have a kid. And the whole thesis of the, of the special is that I'll probably never have a kid. Cause it'll always be Pete and me.
- [43:01]
A
Yes.
- [43:02]
B
And I. And then I, I did Edinburgh Festival. I did a run of it prior to that in New York at St. Mark's Theater. And then I did Soho Playhouse last summer, and I was doing 22 shows in a row. And then on the second show, right before, like, right before, like four hours before, I found out that I was gonna. That my new girlfriend was pregnant.
- [43:35]
A
Okay.
- [43:35]
B
Yeah.
- [43:36]
A
We said, I'm never gonna get married. I'm never gonna have a kid. Yeah.
- [43:39]
B
And now I'm engaged. Now I have a kid.
- [43:41]
A
So you had the question, do I change? This is a show. Right. So it's not comedy where you're supposed to be improvisational. This is now a show.
- [43:49]
B
Yeah.
- [43:49]
A
You change the line.
- [43:51]
B
No, because it still rings true. It's still something that is something to consider when you have someone with autism in your life. It's some. Somebody that's always going to be there.
- [44:06]
A
Right, right, right.
- [44:07]
B
Somebody that will always be there in your life in a good way.
- [44:12]
A
Right.
- [44:12]
B
And it's also when I wrote it, that was true to me. It's like when you write a book, you don't go back and change it. You know what I mean? It's like if something else happens in your life. But that's. It was a document of that time in my life.
- [44:27]
A
That's exactly what I was thinking. Like this. Now maybe you could, if you want to update it. And in the end you could say, you know, in the beginning of this special, I said, I'm never gonna have a kid. Let me tell you what has happened. But there are probably revelations that you never Can. You just thought you'd never had of a kid. Now you're going to be a dad. You're, I assume, going to get married. If you're using the word fiance, I don't know.
- [44:49]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:49]
A
So there are some new.
- [44:50]
B
We're going to get married, but she wants to get, you know. Anyway, I'll tell you later.
- [44:54]
A
But yeah, okay.
- [44:55]
B
Yeah.
- [44:55]
A
So there are some new considerations here. You have this brother who lives in Canada.
- [45:00]
B
Yeah.
- [45:01]
A
You have a. Maybe you have a kid and are committed to a kid down here.
- [45:04]
B
Yeah.
- [45:04]
A
Like, how does that affect your life? Can you uproot Tell your fiance that you might have to one day and it might be soon. Uproot and go to Canada because Pete's yours and we'll be yours forever. He's kind of your kid, in a way.
- [45:19]
B
Yeah. No, I. That's. It's. It's one of the reasons why I decided. We decided to, you know, to have the child. We had to make a decision pretty quick. We're not ones to, like, let that linger, you know?
- [45:34]
A
So even if you don't live in Texas, it's good to get on that early.
- [45:37]
B
Yes. And so we.
- [45:41]
A
She just.
- [45:43]
B
She had seen the show. She knew what she was getting into. It's one of the great things about her seeing about doing the show is. Is like I could basically present my life to this person. I started. I was starting to date who I was in love with. Yeah. And she got to know exactly what the score was, what the deal is. She knows exactly what the deal is. Is that one day we might have to move to Ottawa. And she was like, yeah, cool.
- [46:09]
A
Yeah.
- [46:09]
B
And she was like, he's awesome. And she's just. She's just the best. She, like, is just very easy to plan a life with. And. And, like, we're just. She's not a panicker. I'm a panicker. And she just takes us as a. We might not have to move to Ottawa. Maybe It'll be in 10 years. Maybe it won't be at all. Maybe it'll be in six months. We just. We're not gonna. We're not gonna borrow problems from tomorrow because there's enough today kind of attitude.
- [46:40]
A
Yeah.
- [46:41]
B
And. And if I find it really level, I was like. I was like, well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna lock this down with this lady here, you know?
- [46:50]
A
Yep.
- [46:51]
B
Yeah.
- [46:52]
A
All right. In a minute, we'll be back with more of Graham to talk about putting together the special and all these funny things about his brother. Maybe there's some not funny things. I haven't heard them. Back in a minute with. Funny you should mention.
- [47:04]
B
I'm Uncle Big boss. You tell my nitwit nephew not to ever be captured by the cops. And then I was just in jail for three days.
- [47:23]
A
If you're a business owner, you know that missed calls and slow follow ups are silent killers. That's how businesses leave money on the table without ever realizing it. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo, spelled Q U O. The business communication system built so you never miss a call. Quo works wherever you are right from your phone or computer. Keep your existing number, add teammates in minutes. Sync your CRM and let the call routing handle itself as you scale. It's easy. Calls, texts, voicemails, transcripts, and contact details all in one clean view. So your team always has the full picture and can show up for every customer conversation, ensuring a seamless and more personalized experience. Money is online. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to quo.com gist that's quo.com gist foreign. We're back with Graham K. We're talking about his new special, Pete and Me. And so you answered one of the questions I was wondering, you have in your standup, you say, you know, I have a brother with autism. Sometimes you don't even say it to make a joke or even. It just needs to be said.
- [48:40]
B
Yeah.
- [48:40]
A
Like you have this joke about, my parents wanted grandchildren, but I got a brother with autism and I'm a comedian. I rolled. They rolled snake eyes. Yeah. Thank you should thank me for ruining your joke.
- [48:50]
B
No, no, you did a pretty good job. I was like, this going to go. You did a great.
- [48:53]
A
Thank you. So. But I was wondering it really. So much of this needs to be explained and explanation not in the form of setup is the antithesis of comedy. Especially comedy. If you do, you know, seven minutes on a late night show or even 20 minutes at the Cellar at a showcase, seems very hard to really build to what you're doing. So did you have to, you did write it as a show and you had to write it as a show to get there?
- [49:16]
B
Yeah.
- [49:17]
A
Right.
- [49:17]
B
Well, I, I basically was doing a bunch of jokes about it in, like in, in clubs in New York and just touring and stuff. And the jokes, I started writing more and more and more and then all of a sudden, you know, like a bit becomes 10 minutes, then it becomes 20 minutes and then it becomes like a chunk. And then it's like, I, I think if I do 10 more minutes, that's 45 minutes. Yeah, I gotta, I think I got a special on my hands.
- [49:43]
A
If I could just.
- [49:44]
B
And so you're like, then you're going on the road and like, I had a, I had a, you know, you're just doing your act, but it's like mostly about autism. And I, you know, I, I'm, I have fans, but half the audience are not fans of mine.
- [49:56]
A
Right, right, right.
- [49:57]
B
They're just there to see comedy.
- [49:58]
A
Yeah.
- [49:59]
B
They're going to, out to the comedy club on Friday night or Saturday night to see comedy, and whoever the comedian, maybe they'll Google me. But you know, it's just like me on Fallon or me on Colbert, they don't know. And then I just do there at the time two years ago, like 35 minutes. Like some of it's about dating and then the rest is just on autism.
- [50:20]
A
Yeah. And it's like reacting.
- [50:22]
B
People loved it. But a lot of. But sometimes I'd be like, selling my merch, you know, and a couple would come up to me and be like, the woman, the mother. The woman would be crying. The guy would be like. And they're like, we have a profoundly autistic child. We came to comedy to get away from that. This was our date night. We didn't know there was going to be an autism show.
- [50:43]
A
Yes.
- [50:44]
B
And I was like, I should probably do my own show about it and call it the Autism Show. It happened like more than once. I started was like, oh, yeah, okay. So that's, that's why I started to do like a, you know, one man show. But I was just doing club stuff. I mean, I would do it at the Cellar and stuff. And, and it's, it's slower pace. But I think the payoffs are, are big enough that it, it's. It, you know, the, the la. The peaks are enough to justify the valleys.
- [51:15]
A
Yes. You know, well, the valleys are. So a compliment would be. You don't really consider them valleys. Right. They're revelations. You learn some things, you consider things in a new way. Now, you mentioned before the Bert and Ernie that you do this shtick that sometimes you're dragged into. So playing the tape of that, which worked in the special, that's pretty hard to do in a club. Right? You can't do that.
- [51:40]
B
Yeah, I don't do that. I, that, that was just as a
- [51:43]
A
comedian, as someone, you know, dedicated to the form where you're like, I don't know. Or when you said, well, it's a show, it's not, it's not stand up. I'm allowed to do it. I'm allowed to use some audio video,
- [51:53]
B
worry about that, those rules and stuff like that. Like, I always loved like the, the like alt scene in Brooklyn and stuff and people playing with the forum and I, you know, I. As long as you're funny, as long. As long as you're not, like cheating or whatever, you know, go for it, who cares? I don't worry about that. But like a club format, like an actual club, it's just too hard to get Right. To do that, you know?
- [52:16]
A
Right.
- [52:16]
B
And you and you and you. And you gotta be, like, on top of them.
- [52:20]
A
Yes. Now, you say. You don't just say, you clearly love your brother, you love Pete, and you love having an autistic brother. Yeah, but what do you think your parents think of that question?
- [52:32]
B
I think it's the same. I think that they, like, went through a period of time when he was really young of just accepting it. And I don't think it was, like, one moment. I think it was a matter of years. And I watched them. I watched my mother just slowly accept that he's gonna be the same. I remember him just, like, walking ahead of us. We were, like, on a family vacation, and he was just. We were like, my dad, my mother and me were, like, walking. Supposed to be walking. They're supposed to be walking with their two kids, but one has autism, and he was just, like, ahead, going, like, you know, and he's like, five, six, maybe. Maybe he's like. Maybe he's like eight maybe. I don't know. It doesn't matter. But my mom was like. She started crying, and she's like, this. He's gonna be like this the rest of his life, isn't he?
- [53:20]
A
And.
- [53:21]
B
And then I was like, I guess I'm not gonna ask if we can get a hot dog. And then. And then we, like. I. I just. I think after that, she's. She's just. She loves him, and she's like. She calls him the little dictator because he always tells her what to do. And.
- [53:44]
A
But you more than accept him. I. I'm sure your parents do, too.
- [53:47]
B
Yeah.
- [53:47]
A
That wouldn't be the first word we use. You've accepted it. You love him as him, but you also love the parts of him and get a big kick out of the parts of him that wouldn't be there but for his autism, I think.
- [53:59]
B
For sure. But me a long time to get there, too. Like, I used to be super pissed off that he would just play, like, Super Mario Brothers over and over and over and over and over. I mean, I broke a Super Mario Brother game when I was, like, 14.
- [54:10]
A
Yeah.
- [54:10]
B
He, like, still talks about it. He still talks about it. Yeah.
- [54:15]
A
So the. The part I cried was when you had the pictures of your friend on say, I'm going to fucking cry now. And you talk about when he was 12 and he pooped in a pool. Yeah.
- [54:24]
B
Yeah.
- [54:25]
A
You didn't clean him off and your friends did.
- [54:27]
B
I let everyone make fun of him. I didn't. I had. Yeah. And you were how old? I was probably 13.
- [54:34]
A
That's a very tough age for you, man.
- [54:37]
B
You were. Yeah.
- [54:38]
A
And you knew you did something wrong and you sold out your brother.
- [54:41]
B
Sold him out. Did not protect him. And then Mike and Andrew did protect him.
- [54:45]
A
Yeah. Now how did you, you knew them beforehand.
- [54:48]
B
Yeah. Not, not that well.
- [54:49]
A
Right.
- [54:50]
B
But we became really good friends after that. And I was like, these guys are the, these guys are really strong willed, good people and their kids. And they, they had empathy.
- [54:59]
A
Yeah.
- [55:00]
B
They knew that Peter was different and he needed to be protected, not made fun of. And it's something I couldn't even figure out. And I live with him.
- [55:06]
A
Yeah. You know, what do you think made them like that or makes people like that? What's the difference between the people who are empathetic and are the helpers and the ones that aren't either? And then there are the ones that make fun.
- [55:17]
B
I, I don't know. I really don't know. I, I, it's, they come from good families.
- [55:24]
A
Yeah.
- [55:29]
B
You know, but I have a friend who is from a really bad family and was like abused and he's like the nicest guy in the world. So I don't know.
- [55:39]
A
But when people act weird or scared, is it usually. I wouldn't think that they're bad people. I wouldn't think maybe, maybe there, maybe it's trending that way as there's more information about autism. I would think that, that they're mostly ignorant and they're maybe reacting to what they see as a fairly large person acting odd or dangerous. And there's a lot of weird drugs in the world which actually got you kicked out of your house for a couple of years. The perception of drugs. So, you know, I don't know. But have you come up with any theories or maybe there are excuses for when people don't treat your brother with the dignity he deserves.
- [56:21]
B
Yeah, definitely. Back then people didn't know.
- [56:23]
A
Yeah.
- [56:24]
B
And I think a lot of people. I don't know what it would be like now. I think I'd be able to angrier all the time if people, people, it's like, dude, it's like you haven't seen Love on the spectrum. Like, which is a show that I.
- [56:35]
A
Beautiful show.
- [56:36]
B
It's a beautiful show. I, when it first came out, I was like, I don't know, I thought
- [56:40]
A
it was a little trickly and exploitative.
- [56:42]
B
I think, I just, I just, I know there's people out there laughing the wrong way and then it's just like there are and there still are. But I bet you, I mean, most people are good.
- [56:54]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [56:55]
B
They just are.
- [56:56]
A
Yeah.
- [56:56]
B
I mean, you can be a cynic all you want, but like travel, talk to people, get out of your bubble. Most people are nice.
- [57:02]
A
Yeah.
- [57:03]
B
And I. And 99% of people who watch that show get it.
- [57:09]
A
Yeah.
- [57:10]
B
The right way and learn from it.
- [57:13]
A
People seriously love the characters. Yeah.
- [57:15]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think the this day and age, I'd be like, are you serious, dude?
- [57:22]
A
Like, so your brother isn't interested in love on the spectrum or otherwise? He's a big fan of the Hoo Ha's. Yeah. What does he call breasts from.
- [57:31]
B
Dude, where's my car?
- [57:34]
A
So. So he's a boob man, but yet not in law. Not interested in romance?
- [57:38]
B
Well, he. He would be.
- [57:40]
A
Yes.
- [57:40]
B
But he was traumatized younger, so he. He thinks it's too much trouble. Like he didn't understand boundaries. So he would get close to girls and not do anything bad, but kind of freak him out.
- [58:01]
A
Yeah.
- [58:02]
B
He's a big guy.
- [58:02]
A
Yeah.
- [58:03]
B
Like. Or just stare at girls on the bus and they would yell at him or boyfriends would yell at him. Or one time he hit on a woman in.
- [58:12]
A
At a bookstore and does he have game or. No.
- [58:16]
B
No. She called the police.
- [58:18]
A
Yeah. Jesus.
- [58:19]
B
And so he.
- [58:20]
A
Right.
- [58:22]
B
He didn't understand what was happening. And I think he tried to show her his Spider man belt buckle.
- [58:30]
A
Yeah.
- [58:31]
B
Because he has a. He loves Spider man and he has a belt buckle with Spider man on it. And it looks. When you go like this to a woman, they get, you know.
- [58:38]
A
Right.
- [58:38]
B
And so he just. One of those situations were like, you hope that that person was like, oh, he's obviously special right now. But she didn't. And maybe. Maybe something happened to her recently and she had her.
- [58:56]
A
Yeah.
- [58:56]
B
You know, and so anyway, because of that, mostly that he's like, I don't need a girlfriend. It's too much trouble. I don't want to deal with that. It's really hard to find somebody like me. And it is really hard to find somebody like him because. Because when you have autism like him, it's like one. If you've met one person with autism, you only met one person with autism because everyone's completely different. And so it's hard for him to find somebody on his plane.
- [59:20]
A
Yeah.
- [59:20]
B
Like, it's.
- [59:21]
A
He.
- [59:21]
B
He cannot adapt. Like, we can all. You and I can adapt if somebody's a little different, we can. Like, you know, my. My fiance has to adapt to me.
- [59:31]
A
Sure.
- [59:31]
B
You know.
- [59:32]
A
Right.
- [59:33]
B
And. And I And so. But he can't.
- [59:37]
A
So. But he can change, Right? So you. When you talk about when he was 12 and he pooped in the pool, he was maybe like a two year old then.
- [59:45]
B
And yeah, he would have been about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [59:47]
A
So now that he's early 40s, he's. It's hard to have exact ages, but he's five or six, let's say. Right?
- [59:54]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [59:55]
A
And what about. And though he holds on to the. What we forever will be called the Mario Kart incident or the. Right. He also has growth, right? He's shown some growth in some ways.
- [60:08]
B
Yes. Yeah. I think like the fish tank. Yeah, right.
- [60:11]
A
The fish tank's getting less deadly over time.
- [60:14]
B
Yeah, 100%.
- [60:15]
A
Okay.
- [60:15]
B
He can be taught. Yes, he can. Like you can teach a five year old to be a virtuoso at piano. Yes, but it takes a lot of work.
- [60:28]
A
Yes.
- [60:29]
B
A lot of time, a lot of dedication. And you can teach my brother to have a clean fish tank. Yes, but it takes a lot of time, a lot of dedication. You know, living at home, you know, if anything changes, he can't really deal with it. But like, I gotcha.
- [60:46]
A
And navigating romance is 100 times harder. But when I watch Love on the
- [60:50]
B
street, I would like to try. It's been something that gives you guidance on this.
- [60:54]
A
Do you have. It's Canada there. I would assume there are more social services. I bring this up because Love on the Spectrum year one was in Australia and it was really clear that there were a lot of people. They have a lot of good social services.
- [61:06]
B
Yeah.
- [61:06]
A
And when they brought it to America, almost all the families were rich people.
- [61:10]
B
That's right.
- [61:10]
A
People who could afford the social services.
- [61:12]
B
Yes.
- [61:13]
A
So this is my question. Like, I assume Canada is more like Australia, but are there really resources for that special thing, the romance part?
- [61:21]
B
There are not really. Not specifically, no. There's no like government dating website for people with disabilities. But there are. Like, my brother's part of a wonderful program called Live Work Play, which is an organization that gets most of their funding from the government and donations and anyone can join. And it teaches. It starts with kids and you can stick with it for your whole life, but it teaches kids how to live, how to work and how to play. People with disabilities. So, you know, my brother started when he was 13 and he's with all of a sudden a group of people that are like him. And he had a crush on a girl there, but she had a boyfriend and he didn't give her enough space. And.
- [62:10]
A
Right, right, right.
- [62:12]
B
But it's only. That's, you know, his age group. You know, it's like 30 people. So that's. He's with those 30 people his whole. It doesn't change.
- [62:21]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [62:21]
B
You know what I mean? Imagine your village only had, like, three women you're interested in. You know what I mean? It just. It doesn't. It's tough.
- [62:30]
A
It's a tough dynamic.
- [62:31]
B
Yeah, yeah. Like, I've been trying to get him to play, like, Special Olympics archery, because he likes that. Then it was basketball, but the basketball was too late. Trying to do bowling. It's just, like, really hard to find activities that he can do that it can meet people. I mean, if I lived in Ottawa, I'm sure I could figure it out. It's one of the things about living down here. It's like, I can't. My parents don't really. Can't really navigate that kind of stuff because they just. They're just gonna look at the yellow pages, you know what I mean? It's like, you know. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it's. Yeah, it's just. I kind of. I've kind of given up. Love on the spectrum. Contacted me and was like, would your brother be interested? And I'm like, well, we're Canadian. And they were like, oh, okay.
- [63:07]
A
That's all it took. Now, we have a strict rule. We're very open to all people of different neuro situations, except Canadians.
- [63:16]
B
Hilarious. Yeah.
- [63:17]
A
Yeah, that's the line.
- [63:17]
B
Yeah.
- [63:18]
A
So what do you think of the phrase or concept neurodivergent and how it's used? Because I was. Do you know who Janet McNamara is? She's a great comedian, and she has these jokes that she's failed by. One question. Autism test, three times. She's definitely. I don't want to use wrong phrases, but I would say she's certainly autistic. And anyway, she. She has calls herself autistic. I think she just about does. I mean, the whole special is about how she's like, right up to the line.
- [63:49]
B
Right.
- [63:49]
A
I mean, she wore a life preserver for three years straight when she was a kid. So she has. She has tendencies. You're the ocd. You get it. Right? So she loves the neurodivergent label. But on the other hand, there's some people who adopt it who maybe are.
- [64:08]
B
I don't know.
- [64:09]
A
I don't know, Looking to increase their online credibility or sympathy.
- [64:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, I. I think that is been. People have talked about it enough as being fake. Like, there's too many people out there just trying to get clout that. I think that that's kind of gone down. I think that was like a few years ago problem. But maybe it still is. But I, I think, I think like an influencer being, like, I'm neurodivergent. People like, that's so cringe now.
- [64:42]
A
Yes.
- [64:43]
B
You know that. I think that's like out. That's like, it's almost hacky.
- [64:47]
A
Yeah. It's self negating once you do that.
- [64:52]
B
Yeah. It's like if you are neurodivergent to a point where it matters, you know? My brother is neurodivergent to the point where the government has to step in.
- [65:04]
A
Yes. He can't count.
- [65:05]
B
No, he can't count. If my parents die and I die and the government wasn't. If no one would help him. He would die.
- [65:15]
A
Yes.
- [65:16]
B
He would just die.
- [65:16]
A
Yes.
- [65:17]
B
So there's. It's not like he's just, you know, it's like. You call yourself neurodivergent. Whatever. You're not. You're not really taking anything away from my brother because he can't get it anyway.
- [65:25]
A
You have. You have that, I think fun, funny point to joke. Okay. He's not disabled. He has some. He has a thing. And that thing means he'll die in six days if.
- [65:35]
B
Yeah.
- [65:35]
A
You don't look in on him.
- [65:36]
B
Yeah.
- [65:36]
A
Because whatever you call that thing. Yeah.
- [65:38]
B
Because there's like, the autism community has been stratified in the past 10 years, let's say, where they used to be like Asperger's and there was autism. And then they came together because they googled and they found out that Dr. Asperger was Nazi. All the Asperger people, which was like, you know, revenge of the nerd style. Nerds came back over to autism and those people are in the pool now with autism. And they're like, like, we are not disabled.
- [66:08]
A
Right.
- [66:09]
B
If you call us disabled.
- [66:10]
A
Right.
- [66:11]
B
That hurts our chances of getting a job.
- [66:13]
A
Right. There are kids who go to Harvard who are in that pool 100%. This is big tent autism.
- [66:19]
B
So it's like, sure, I will not call my brother. I will not say my brother has a disability anymore. He's got that little thing where if he was left alone, he'd be dead.
- [66:31]
A
Yeah, whatever we call that.
- [66:32]
B
Whatever you want to call that.
- [66:34]
A
Yeah, yeah. Harvard guy. What about. I have heard people in what we maybe once were able to call the disability community making the point that when the categories are so capacious as to include the revenge of the nerds guys. Right? And they argue, don't disrespect people with autism. People with autism can do anything. And there are people on the other side who are much worse off than your brother, who are totally non verbal and just essentially would have been institutionalized 50 years ago. And if they're not institutionalized, it's gigantic burden on the family. Is that a good or positive thing that the big tent. Such that we look at the people who are very, very, very functional in the world and they're. Because they are often articulate, driving the stakes of the conversation, the language and our conception of the community.
- [67:30]
B
You say it again.
- [67:31]
A
Is that a good thing? That the people who are most articulate on it, the revenge of the nerds people.
- [67:36]
B
Right. That they're driving the.
- [67:38]
A
I mean people have pointed out we kind of forget about these extremely profoundly affected people with autism.
- [67:44]
B
There is a huge debate in the autism community. Parents, the people who have to take care of these profoundly, severely, profoundly autistic children or adults who are like, can't live on their own, smear their own poop on the wall. My friend's son smears poop on the wall. He eats the flooring. They have to. He has to live in a place with a concrete floor because he'll eat the flooring. He's 24 years old. He's never spoken. These are, the parents are like, my son is disabled. He needs government funding. And then they will get shouted down from the stage. People will come in and say, that is hate speech. And these are, you know, and, and autistic people. They see very black and white. So to them they're like, it's hate speech. They can't understand there's a gray area. You know what I mean? It's like just, just you have, you need, you need Asperger's back. You have something else. You're not. You don't eat the ground.
- [68:56]
A
Right, Right.
- [68:56]
B
You have something else.
- [68:57]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [68:58]
B
So just. They need all of the designation. Okay. That they can get to help them get funding. So fuck off. Like, you know what I mean?
- [69:10]
A
And also, disabled isn't hate speech because it's not a hateful term.
- [69:14]
B
It doesn't mean that you're any worthwhile, less of a person. Just because my brother is disabled doesn't mean he's. His life is worth less than yours.
- [69:22]
A
Yes.
- [69:22]
B
Or somebody, you know, or anyone's, you know, his life. He contributes a lot, but it's, it's
- [69:28]
A
only my point with that last statement was it's Only hate speech if you hate the disabled. And we shouldn't.
- [69:32]
B
Yes.
- [69:33]
A
I mean, maybe. Maybe some of these people with Asperger's who are making those claims do, in their heart, I don't know, hate being associated with that? I don't know.
- [69:42]
B
I don't know.
- [69:42]
A
It's hard.
- [69:43]
B
I don't know. It's a huge debate that I, I've. I, like, I'm going to, you know, Too exhausting for me to get into. You know, I, I hope I don't have to get into it. I just found out my apartment has some lead paint. I have a. I have an infant son, so.
- [70:03]
A
Yes. So when your son comes along and now you have this fiance.
- [70:07]
B
Yeah.
- [70:08]
A
What do you do with the statement that your brother's your favorite person in the world?
- [70:15]
B
Yeah. It changes, you know, I mean, it's like, there's nothing like having a. I mean. Yeah. I don't know. I have two people.
- [70:23]
A
Yeah. What have people said about the special? That you hoped it would connect, but how is it connected in ways that maybe even surprised you?
- [70:33]
B
I was just really worried that people with autism. The special is not for people with autism to see. It is for people who are parents or, like me, have siblings with autism.
- [70:46]
A
Yeah.
- [70:48]
B
Or work in the field or know somebody in their life. It's for neurotypical people, is what I'm trying to say. It's not just for, like, if you're out there watching. Well, it's not for me. You'd like it. It's funny. But all that to say is, it wasn't. It's not a show for people with autism. And I worry what they think. Am I. Do they think I'm making fun of them? Do they feel like, I don't know, just cheap shots or they feel weird about it. And a ton, ton of people, they brought their kids, they brought their adult kids, they brought their teenage kids, or they came alone and they have autism and they're like, they loved it.
- [71:30]
A
Yeah.
- [71:30]
B
Because I talk about them. I talk about all the different versions. I say, we're cool, they're cool. Like, like, I give them a. I try and give them a voice. I try and show that they're. I, I, I have empathy. I just try and show empathy, you know? So that was the best thing that that happened is, like, I have, like, video. Like, my friend was filming, like, promo video as I was, like, standing outside the. The theater, and people were coming out, you know, and then there's like, like, clearly autistic dude. Like, yo, that was awesome. Thank you so much.
- [72:08]
A
That's cool.
- [72:09]
B
That, like, you. I was like, did I capture it right? And he's like, you did? You know what you're talking about? I was like, thank you. That means so much to me that I know you think I know what I'm talking. I mean, thank you so much, dude. Like, I. It was awesome.
- [72:23]
A
Graham k's new special is Pete and me. Could catch it on YouTube. You catch him doing stand up. I'm not going to give you his road dates, but he's all around town sometimes not talking about his brother, but often when he does, doing so eloquently and to the delight of the crowd. Thank you so much, Graham.
- [72:38]
B
Dude, thanks so much for having me. That was. That was fun. And thanks for like, watching all my stuff and knowing about it.
- [72:42]
A
Yeah. That's it for today's show. The gist is produced by Cory Wara. Jeff Craig does how to. Ben Astaire is our booking coordinator. Kathleen's Sykes does the gist list. And Michelle Pesca is extraordinary in her role as coo uproo g Peru duparu. Thanks for listening.