Funny You Should Mention: Liza Treyger

Summary

The Gist — "Funny You Should Mention: Liza Treyger" (Jan 16, 2026)

Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: Liza Treyger, comedian
Duration: ~72 minutes (interview)
Theme: Comedy, cultural critique, challenging comfort zones, and the fine line between sincerity, satire, and provocation in both comedy and society at large.

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Episode Overview

Mike Pesca sits down with comedian Liza Treyger for a wide-ranging, candid, and hilarious conversation. The episode navigates Treyger’s comedic process, her radical (and very sincere) sociopolitical takes, the legacy of growing up as an immigrant Jew in Skokie, her obsession with true crime (and the infamous "Luigi" case), and her strong feelings about justice system failures, feminism, and the cultural climate. Throughout, Treyger oscillates between deep sincerity and comic exaggeration, blurring the lines between the two in true standup fashion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comedic Voice and Special "Night Owl"

• (09:52) Mike clarifies he mispronounced Liza’s name for a long time.
• Liza identifies as a "night owl" both metaphorically and literally, thriving in late-night comedy settings.
• Late-night sets at the Comedy Cellar have "animals" in the audience—drunk, tired, or otherwise wild.
• Specials should reflect actual comedic performance, not pageantry:

  "I wanted this to be how I perform, not put on some sort of pageant show." —Liza (25:37)

• She avoided a rigid setlist for her special, emphasizing being present and spontaneous.

2. Name Mispronunciation and Talk Show Culture

• (11:25-14:27) Liza discusses common confusion between "Liza" and "Lisa" and the impact of daytime talk shows on culture—especially the messy, moralizing style of 90s TV (Jenny Jones, Maury, Springer).
• Reality TV and Bravo shows have replaced the old talk show dynamic, providing extended character arcs and connected fandom instead of momentary drama.

3. Defining People by Their Worst Moments & Rape Culture

• (15:38-20:12) Delving into true crime (as the host of the podcast "That's Messed Up") and her insistence on defining abusers by their actions, not just their talents or former achievements.

  "If you molest, you beat your wife, that should be your defining moment. Not the movies." —Liza (16:32)

• Liza humorously yet sharply riffs on the ubiquity of "talented rapists" in pop culture and how society is too quick to forgive:

  "You should be able to support three rapists in your lifetime. Even if that was the rule, so many more rapists would get in trouble. That's how many there are." —Liza (17:16)

• She draws an analogy to recycling: culture pays lip service to change but the big actors (church, corporations) resist systemic reform.

4. False Accusations, Gender, and Taking Precautions

• (21:05-24:38) Liza lampoons male anxiety about false rape accusations with the same tools society uses to keep women safe:

  "If you're so scared [of false accusations], why are you so promiscuous?...If you're so scared, act different. Why do I have to feel bad for you? ...Rape's worse than lying." —Liza (23:08, 23:38)

• Women live defensively; men rarely take such precautions.

5. Comedy Process: Sincerity, Spontaneity, and Craft

• Presenting material as unwritten—she credits Dave Attell and Nikki Glaser with inspiring this approach:

  "You don't have to be in order. Do anything. You can know your stuff...you can lead what's happening." —Liza (34:13)

• Mike observes that Liza’s lines blur between standup jokes and spontaneous one-liners—“Lisa just funny.”

6. Background: Chicago, Judaism, and School

• Growing up in Skokie (“super Jewish”), the child of Soviet immigrants, Liza describes her cultural rather than religious identity and early feminist instincts.

  "I hated long skirts. I hated gender inequality. From the jump, I saw shit wasn't fair." —Liza (43:11)

• Her college journey: Iowa State for advertising, then Columbia College, then North Park (evangelical Christian), ultimately earning a degree in sociology—which further entrenched her skepticism about organized religion and informs her views on society.

7. Feminism, Stand-Up Crowds, and Gender Exclusion

• (44:05-47:56) Early experience playing boys’ football, being "an annoyance," and continuing to confront male exclusion in stand-up crowds.
• On the Barbie movie:

  "Make a movie for the girls. To even think about men while you're making a Barbie movie, it's like so humiliating." —Liza (47:03)

• Women support/cross over to male interests but it’s rarely reciprocated.

8. Taylor Swift, Sports, and Gendered Fandom

• (47:55-49:44) Liza rips into NFL fans’ anger over Taylor Swift’s influence:

  "They hate her...you hate women. It makes no sense to be mad." —Liza (49:44)

• Contrasts Swifties' acceptance of Travis Kelce with football fans' rejection of Swift.

9. Cultural Obsessions: “Heated Rivalry,” True Crime, and Russian Identity

• Liza gushes about the TV series "Heated Rivalry" and participates in themed Soul Cycle classes.
• She’s a "native Russian speaker," praises an actor’s Russian on the show, and reflects on the coldness/sternness of Russian family dynamics.
• Touches on the inability to return to Odessa due to war and laments the loss of homeland.

10. Justice System Critique & The “Luigi Mangione” Case

• (66:03-76:12) Deep dive into the criminal justice system’s failings via the “Luigi” case:
  • Liza seriously doubts Luigi is guilty and unpacks issues of due process, evidence tampering, and media suppression—pointing to a broader pattern of wrongful convictions, especially among the less privileged.
  • Liza calls out "execution happy" administration and systemic contradictions in legal proceedings.
• On whether she wants the real killer caught:

  "No, I actually believe that more rich people need to be murdered violently in the streets. Legit." —Liza (70:51)

  • After Pesca presses to clarify if she’s serious, she doubles down.
• The “Luigi” case is a stand-in for larger justice issues, and Liza is self-aware about her rhetoric, blending sincerity and comic exaggeration, but insists she is “serious” on this point.

11. Free Speech then and now, Comedy's Risk-Taking, and Ethics

• (58:08-63:56) In Skokie, Liza learned the foundational importance of free speech, even for hate groups.
• Navigates current debates over "words are violence" vs. the right to say anything on stage if it’s funny, but insists listeners/audiences retain the right to object or dislike what’s said.

  "Say whatever you want, but then the entitlement for everyone to love it...it's like, okay, but then if someone is pissed, they're the problem?...No, I'm allowed to not like it." —Liza (60:21)

• Mike points out many comics can use "cancel culture" as an excuse for unfunniness; Liza says the answer is "be funny" and strive to "kill in every room," accepting not everyone will like you.

12. Trauma, True Crime, and Comedy Ethics

• (76:43-79:57) Liza discusses her ongoing, research-driven obsession with true crime ("That's Messed Up" podcast), always mindful of the real trauma for victims and the pervasiveness of injustice.
• Jokes about rape, violence, and trauma need to keep the survivors' perspectives in mind:

  "I want those people [survivors] to laugh. I don't want someone sitting there who's gone through that to see a roomful of people laughing at that." —Liza

13. Final Self-Reflection and Special Promotion

• Liza plugs "Night Owl" repeatedly, hoping Netflix will keep investing in her special if viewership stays high.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On defining abusers by action, not talent:

  "If you molest, you beat your wife, that should be your defining moment. Not the movies."
  —Liza (16:32)

• On rape culture and social priorities:

  "Our culture forgives and accepts sexual abuse and pedophilia. And that's just it."
  —Liza (18:52)

• On men’s precautions vs. women’s lived reality:

  "If you're so scared [of false accusations], why are you so promiscuous?...If you're so scared, act different."
  —Liza (23:08)

• On female comedians' audiences:

  "Straight men don’t usually come to see me...I perform for girls and gays...proven time and time again, men don't want to hear women."
  —Liza (45:45)

• On the Barbie movie and the male gaze:

  "To even think about men while you're making a Barbie movie, it's so humiliating...Make a movie for the girls!"
  —Liza (47:03)

• On Taylor Swift and the NFL:

  "They hate her...you hate women. It makes no sense to be mad."
  —Liza (49:44)

• On the Luigi case and a comic’s sincerity:

  "No, I actually believe that more rich people need to be murdered violently in the streets. Legit."
  —Liza (70:51)

• On free speech and audience entitlement:

  "Say whatever you want. But the entitlement for everyone to love it...if someone is pissed in the crowd, they're the problem?...No, I'm allowed to not like it."
  —Liza (60:21)

• On survivors and trauma in comedy:

  "I want those people to laugh...I don't want someone sitting there that’s gone through that to see a room full of people laughing at that."
  —Liza (79:57)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 09:52 — Opening about Liza's name, comedy special, and late-night comedy.
• 14:27 — Reality TV vs. talk show messiness.
• 16:00-18:52 — Rape culture, talent vs. crime, cultural complicity.
• 21:05-24:38 — False accusations, gender roles, defense mechanisms.
• 33:22-36:33 — Comedy style, Attell/Glaser influences, authentic performing.
• 43:11-47:03 — Growing up Russian Jewish, feminist roots, gender barriers.
• 47:03-49:44 — Male gaze, Barbie, Taylor Swift and the NFL.
• 58:08-61:07 — Free speech, ACLU, and boundaries in comedy.
• 66:03-76:12 — The Luigi case, critique of justice, radical rhetoric.
• 76:43-79:57 — Trauma, research, ethics in comedy, true crime podcasting.

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Tone and Language

• Candid, darkly funny, and often combative. Liza’s language is explicit, passionate, direct—even when discussing violence, trauma, or political extremism.
• Confessional and self-aware. Treyger oscillates between radical sincerity ("I really believe this") and acknowledging the comedic absurdity of her position.
• Provocative but thoughtful. Both trade in irreverence, but the underlying themes—misogyny, inequality, injustice—are tackled earnestly beneath the jokes.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode exemplifies The Gist’s “responsibly provocative” style—deep and often uncomfortable cultural critique delivered with wit and warmth. Liza Treyger is both a comic and a cultural critic, weaponizing her humor and sociological training to challenge dogma, demand justice, and interrogate both society’s and her own hypocrisy, all while keeping the punchlines coming. For fans of thoughtful standup, trenchant social commentary, and the unique joy of seeing those two in constant, lively dialogue, it’s a must-listen.

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[End of Episode Summary]

Transcript

[Mike Pesca]

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[Lisa Traeger]

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[Mike Pesca]

It's Friday, January 16, 2020. Peach Fish Productions it's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca and today is a funny you should mention day. Funny you should mention that Lisa Traeger is on the show. She's a very. Did I say funny twice already? She's a very funny comedian. She loves owls, she loves weed. She does videos where she talks about all the money she wastes like on Moenchi Chi, little purses and handbags. But she also has, I guess, radical politics which you'll hear by the end of the interview. We get into one of the residents of the Metropolitan Detention center and that's Luigi Mangione. She is, I thought as mostly a bit obsessed with Luigi Mangione and I actually forgot to ask about it during the interview. And then my intrepid producer and Lisa Trager fan Michelle Pesca said ask about Luigi. So I did. Now you will hear her make some assertions about Luigi. I couldn't fact check. I couldn't fact check all of them in real time. Couldn't exactly. Didn't want to spar with her in real time. Sometimes the philosophy is okay, let these incendiary statements out there and give what pushback you can write. The direct confrontation I think, and I shouldn't say confrontation, the direct challenge I think would have just occasioned. Lisa, you know, she's, she's funny, she's got a patter. She maybe have Gish galloped me debating term. So I just asked her a about a couple implications of her love of Luigi and her, you know, call for the blood in the streets that I thought she was joking about, but maybe she's not. She tried very hard to tell me she wasn't joking about that. But before we even get to that, we get into Liz's mind. If you have a chance to see her, you should. I think she puts most of her Luigi stuff. And it's funny. Fourth time I mentioned the word funny in the intro to funny. You should mention it's interesting because you never know exactly what line the comedians are on. They're playing with things like exaggeration and satire. And really, those are different. You can use exaggeration to achieve satire, but satire is poking fun at or embodying, often embodying a point of view with which you don't agree. And exaggeration is the opposite. Expressing your point of view, but in an exaggerated way for comedic effect. And sometimes you take the opposite point of view and you put that out there for mockery. So in a week or so, we're gonna have a great comedian named Jeffrey Osmus on the show. And he usually says things that he doesn't believe in a little. Like Colbert, he has, you know, pretends he's an alpha and talks about cocks. And it's not his Persona throughout the show, but he'll say some of these things with a wink and a nod. And so you do wonder if Lisa's Pro Luigi or Luigi Love is with a wink and a nod. But in fact, it was publicly showing a five on the Luigi and Tris scale when she's about an 132. Oh, yeah. So I didn't fact check everything. I will say that she was making some comments about why did UnitedHealth still have the meeting? That's really weird when your CEO is dead, as far as I could tell. I'm sure some big Luigi fan in the audience will write to me and correct this. They called off the meeting when they found out that Brian Thompson had been killed. But I don't know, maybe there's some deep dive on that. Then they continued the meeting a little too long. It's not as important. It's not as important as all the owl stuff and the wheat stuff and the mochi cheese stuff. Lisa Traeger up next. Thanks to Home Serve for sponsoring this episode. Being a homeowner is amazing. It helps to be married to a somewhat brilliant architect who designs a home such that it should go in some sort of digest. But I got to tell you, there's a lot of stuff to do around the house. Cracks in the ceiling, cracks in the facade. You know what the big win was in the last few months? The neighbors demolished their house. 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[Mike Pesca]

Lisa Traeger has long been on our list as a comedian we would most love to have. Now, I have to say, for most of the time we were pining for her, I did think it was Liza Trager. But then I watched her special Night Owls Again and the guy who introduces her says, Lisa Traeger. And I said, so embarrassing. He got that wrong. No, I was wrong. L I Z A. Like I said, the Netflix special filmed here at the comedy seller is Night owl. The night owl.

[Lisa Traeger]

Night owl.

[Mike Pesca]

Night owl. You are the night owl.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Now, are you more nocturnal or. This one's an easy one. You just love owls. But are you very nocturnal?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, I stay up quite late usually. I don't Yeah, I like to stay up late.

[Mike Pesca]

So comedian.

[Lisa Traeger]

I wake up early for the things I love.

[Mike Pesca]

But yeah, the comedian's a good, good profession for you.

[Lisa Traeger]

Perfect. And I usually do the late night sets here at the Cellar and so, yeah, I'm usually here late.

[Mike Pesca]

Is that. Is the audience better at the late night sets for you?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, of course not. It's like. It's kind of an animal. It's like people are wasted. Some people are like horny, trying to get home already. Or it's people that have had a full day, they saw a Broadway show, they went to the D Dreams. They're here at 1am, right.

[Mike Pesca]

They go bang. People go bang, bang with Broadway.

[Lisa Traeger]

Absolutely. I think if you were here for a weekend, you flew in.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

You're trying to do it all. I think there's people that like went to the Met all day, maybe took a nap, went to a dinner. Wow. Went. Yeah. Like, I think.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you want to get him post Lion King or post like harrowing drama?

[Lisa Traeger]

I'm happy to be there. But someone I for, I think. Was it Ethan? It was like a Ian Lar. Like there was like a comic who said this where you don't realize how good you. And then you perform on the 8 o' clock and you're like, oh my God. It's like a breeze. Everyone's just like kind of like sitting and really attentive and ready. And then. Yeah. You think about the animals you get on a Saturday at 1:50.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

But I prefer. I like it. Yeah, I like it all.

[Mike Pesca]

So I do want to ask you this because I've been.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's unique.

[Mike Pesca]

Scrolling your Instagram.

[Lisa Traeger]

I also wanted to mention the Lisa thing. So I've talked to a lot of Lizas.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And they get called Lisa all the time. So it's really across. It's like both of us get mis. Pronounced like pronounced all the time. There's not one classic, which I assumed was. I thought.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I would assume with a name like that that's somewhat unique but has one er holder. In other words, one person who is so famous who has it, which would be Liza Minnelli. She would pretty much define it for everyone.

[Lisa Traeger]

Absolutely. And then.

[Mike Pesca]

Except, you know.

[Lisa Traeger]

And then Lisa Gibbons is spelled E E, Z A that like. I don't know if you remember that. Daytime. So even the famous Lisa is ee. So it's.

[Mike Pesca]

She would dish that. Lisa Gibbons.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, she would what?

[Mike Pesca]

She would dish.

[Lisa Traeger]

She wasn't for me. I watched other ones. I was Jenny Jones, Sally Jesse Raphael, Ricki. Lake. I was in that area. Montel.

[Mike Pesca]

Uh huh.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. They were all so different. I believe Jenny Jones was the only one who was actually sued for inspiring a suicide.

[Lisa Traeger]

It was worse than a suicide. It. Well, not. No, to cut that. No.

[Mike Pesca]

You could leave it. Suicide was bad.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, it was unfortunate. It was basically an episode of Jenny Jones where people were confessing to former teenage flames. And so a guy came out and confessed that he had a crush on another guy who I think had problems, but also homophobic.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And so killed himself and killed the person that confessed the love. And the show quickly ended after that. And they.

[Mike Pesca]

I think they use the gay panic defense where they tried to, you know.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, because there was no defense. There was no one was, unfortunately. Yeah. So it was sad. But Jenny's niche usually was bad teens and boot camp. Like, that's my. My teen dresses like a slut.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Whereas the paternity test. That was a Maury. That was a Maury thing. And Springer was a lot of stuff. And from your neck.

[Lisa Traeger]

I mean, a lot of these shows were Chicago shows. I've been in the audience of Oprah. My sister was in the audience of Jenny Jones. Yeah. And Springer. That wasn't full for. There's like an episode that still haunts me. And it was like, I don't know what the theme was, because it couldn't have been, I like to get puked on. It was probably like, I have a weird fetish. But a guy and girl and like pleather came out at each other and started puking green slime on the other. And it like, really fudge me up.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Did you ever see the one with the person who is afraid of pickles?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, but that's on Drag Race. That's not real.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, no. There was a per. I don't know, the Drag Race thing. What's the Drag Race? I mean, I know what Drag race is with RuPaul Cracker.

[Lisa Traeger]

Basically one, there's a season where the challenge was to act out like a talk show thing and be guests on a talk show. And there was a pickle fear.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

But I assume they just came up with it for the show, but maybe it was based on real.

[Mike Pesca]

You could watch it online.

[Lisa Traeger]

Cool. Cool. This is Mariah. She's 18 years old and she is deathly afraid of pickles.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think your passion, the Bravo shows, the quote unquote reality shows have essentially supplanted that genre because you don't see so many of the live in studio. Lotta lot of messiness. Going on. You see them on the Bravo shows now.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's not messiness, but talk shows still exist in, like, daytime for sure. And morning. You know, like Jennifer Hudson, Kelly Clarkson. Like, they're trying to.

[Mike Pesca]

But they're trying to do something very daytime. Right. Aren't they trying to be respected in the community?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. The classic talk show. You're right. It doesn't really exist in that. Like, up in the audience, up and down. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

No, because we. I think we as a society need that. And I don't know if Andy Cohen is, like, so good at what he does that he took the need away during the day. Maybe we like it more at night.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's different. I wouldn't compare them, because with the Real Housewives, I've been watching some of the franchises since 2006. Right. So we've seen children be born, go to college, families, like divorce. Like, we really know. Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

Air pulling, arrest.

[Lisa Traeger]

But we know them very deeply. Yeah. And so it's not like they're more than their antics.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

Even if they're not good people or aspirational, like, we do know them as more fuller beings, I would say.

[Mike Pesca]

People say we shouldn't define others by their worst moments.

[Lisa Traeger]

You can.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Isn't that really the stock and trade of these shows?

[Lisa Traeger]

The people that love you don't have to. But, like, this idea of, like, when will you forgive them? It's like, I don't want to be friends with someone like that, and that's fine, and that's my prerogative. Like, what are you talking about?

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Like Charles Manson. How do you define that guy?

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, I've actually gotten things changed. So I have a crime podcast. We recap an episode of svu, deep dive into the true crime and talk to the actor. It's called that's Messed Up. But I've researched crimes in People and. Because, like, we've gotten something switched because there was a molester swim coach in the uk, I think, and his Wikipedia was all about his awards. Then the pedophilia and molestation. And I went, absolutely not. And so we had our. Like, our listeners are really on top of it. So now it's switched. And it's like, no, no, no, no. If you molest, you beat your wife. Like, that should be your defining moment. I don't. Over the movies.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Although. And you have a joke very much like this about the rapist being so talented.

[Libsyn Ads Narrator]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

That guy was a really good swim coach.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, it actually doesn't matter, but it actually doesn't matter. Like, people defend rapists all the time, whether they're famous or not. Like, it truly. It's really shocking how people will bend over backwards to defend a sexual abuser they've never met. But, yeah, it's tough. I do. It's like, separate the art from the artists. I think my. You should be able to pick three. Maybe you could support three rapists in a lifetime. And even if that was the implemented rule, so many more rapists would get in trouble. That's how many.

[Mike Pesca]

There are so many more talented rapists, though.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. Listen, I. The person I did the joke about. I went to New Year's. I went. I saw them at the Sphere in New Year's. I went to the Backstreet Boys at the Sphere.

[Mike Pesca]

It's also very hard when you're one of gangs only. Like, what would it be? 20% of the backstreet Boys are adjudicated rapists?

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know. It's like, it's. You know, I'm a hypocrite. You know, that's. That's like, the point of the joke.

[Mike Pesca]

No, no, you're not. You said what your policy was. Hypocrite is when you say one thing and do the other, you're pretty clear, I'm gonna watch these rapists.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. No, but then there's tons I want. There's, like, certain actors. There's things I will never. I'll never do. And I'm named those people in the special, too. It's like, yeah, but you have to be.

[Mike Pesca]

It is true that if someone loved R. Kelly, loved him, and you were like, I like, remix to Ignition enough. It's easier for the second person who's like, yeah, take them or leave them.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Make the moral stance.

[Lisa Traeger]

No. Yeah. It's like, definitely tough to, like, compare crimes because trauma is trauma on the victims. But. Yeah. I mean, R. Kelly hunting high schools to piss on teenagers and human traffick them.

[Mike Pesca]

Also Chicago story.

[Lisa Traeger]

Very Chicago. And I knew people that worked at the schools and saw him outside. Yes. I know.

[Mike Pesca]

This wasn't there McDonald's that he.

[Lisa Traeger]

I just, you know, it's tough, but it's like, kind of like. And recycling in the environment where it's like, no matter what our personal policies are, overall, our culture forgives and accepts sexual abuse and pedophilia. And that's just it.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

There's nothing else to say.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, that's a pretty good analogy. One to the negative, one to the positive. Right. Which is. We do recycle. We do make laws that enforce some amount of recycling.

[Lisa Traeger]

The big businesses have to change. Like at the end of the day, the Catholic Church has to not rape. Right. Like, you know what I mean? It's. I could have these opinions, but I am also part of the culture and like guilty of. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, this is when they say rape culture, right?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

And then I, I sometimes think is that the best word? Is that the best phrase? I know you're a sociology major, but.

[Lisa Traeger]

It'S also like the, the case of. Why it was the Pellicot case in France last year where it was like 70 plus men. So it's like. Yeah, it is a culture. When you're talking about message boards, a husband drugging, all these men coming over. Even the men that didn't participate never told. No one ever felt guilty. The people that saw the, the posts read about it also didn't like, you know, how do you say it's anything but a culture when you have a whole town in on it? And then how do you also tell women like it's not all men when for her it was the whole town.

[Mike Pesca]

The whole town and so yourselves.

[Lisa Traeger]

I mean, I like, I can't believe we got to rape so fast. But that is what I'm known for. But yeah, it's like it is, it is part of our culture all the time.

[Mike Pesca]

I did want to ask you about that joke. So to me, that is, I question is she saying exactly what she means or is she going for the joke more like when you say so many talented rapists, what are you going to do?

[Lisa Traeger]

I mean, at the end of the day, like I said, I Power. Okay. Like rapes about power. And if you're very talented, you have all this power. It all kind of like you're. I don't know.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And you have more access and more power over people to stay quiet and. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And then as part of that joke is so talented.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like look at history. I don't know what to tell. Yeah. I was thinking there's untalented ones all the time. It doesn't define. Maybe we should Venn diagram.

[Mike Pesca]

Maybe we should pick out the talented ones and give them special attention because it's so rare to have a talented rapist.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, it's not.

[Mike Pesca]

It's not.

[Lisa Traeger]

They're out everyone like it's. The crime is out there constant.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay. So then there's a part of that joke or a cousin of that joke where you talk about a friend, a guy friend of yours who was maybe a reference you just made to people not excusing rape, but being very upset when someone is falsely accused of rape.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And you took that in a direction I did not expect you to take, which was. I expected you to say, essentially, that guy is wrong, and here's why. But what you say is, if there are all these false accusers, why are you sleeping with someone who is the primary type person to be a false accuser?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. Sad fucking crazy bitches. Like, are you out of your minds?

[Mike Pesca]

But are you saying.

[Lisa Traeger]

Because I just watched Fatal Attraction for the first time, and it's like, look at what you've caused by being a cheater, you fucking loser. Like, oh, yeah, this hot woman's so desperate to fuck you, she's clearly mentally ill. And. And she's supposed to be the vic, like the villain movie. When it's him, it's Michael Douglas.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. There's a lot of good black white symbolism in there. And what the costumes are and what they wear.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I mean, it's good.

[Mike Pesca]

It's very.

[Lisa Traeger]

No dress. I didn't even know. I'm obsessed with that dress. I want that dress. I get married in that dress. Like, such good fat, like, costume design for sure, in that movie.

[Mike Pesca]

What I want to ask you about that joke. If we really think about it, we were like, stop fucking crazy bitches. Right. Are you saying that the guy is right or are you calling into question his premise? Like, oh, if it's so true that people are accusing.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, that was my point. Like, as women, it's like pepper spray, the cat rings. Like, all, like, sharing locations. Like, we're constantly, oh, we shouldn't walk home in that night because we'll be blamed. Like, we're. We know the threats because it's an actual threat. So we have defense mechanisms that can or, you know, will or will not help. And then with men, if you're so scared of this thing that you constantly are talking about only when rape's brought up. I've never hear about a false accusation shot any other time. Then where's your plan of action? If it's an actual threat, where's your protectors? And there aren't. Because it's not fudgeing real.

[Mike Pesca]

That is. That is the question I was getting.

[Lisa Traeger]

Not fudgeing real. And if it is so real and you're scared, why are you so promiscuous? Why are you so quick to send a woman your address? Why are you okay. Fudgeing someone on drugs?

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, if you're so scared, act different. Like, why do I have to feel bad for you, like, it's so annoying.

[Mike Pesca]

So you are saying essentially, I'm saying what the numbers is bullsh it more than.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

Even if there's an equal amount of concern, men are so privileged that they don't even have to take precautions.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, there's no precautions at all. And at the end of the day, I think rape's worse than lying. So what are you even saying?

[Mike Pesca]

I'm with you on that.

[Lisa Traeger]

What are you saying? It's like, it's. It's. It's. It's nuts.

[Mike Pesca]

So in the special, what do you remember what your go to example of the crazy bitch would be? Just how.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, that was like, I thank you to the editing team. That's Jason. That was, like, gorgeous. Or Tom Sick directed. I don't know whose idea it was, but I talk about, like, signs of crazy women. And I do say someone was straight across bangs, and I like, do it with my hand. And they cut to a woman with, like, that kind of bang. It's. Keys between your fingers. Right. Earbuds out. Mason, your purse. You're fucking ready. Location shared, dudes. What are you. What are you doing? You're. You'll fuck a girl with bangs like this, you know, That's a maniac. Bless her for being there.

[Mike Pesca]

And, like, she thinks about that.

[Lisa Traeger]

I hope I meet. I mean, I thought that was so fun. I hope she, like, likes being a part of it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Because the audience is also so close to me. It was mentioned that at one point. And so I will meet people that are like, oh, we were there that night. Or we were sitting there. And then there's the two guys in the front. They're like, regular. Like, I see them at my shows all the time. They're a really cute couple. So that was fun.

[Mike Pesca]

I saw a. Oh, I want. So when they stock those shows, are there different ways of doing it? These weren't ring. These were people who, yeah, essentially know you beforehand because they're people that like.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like me a lot. So we, yeah, we released the tickets like a regular show. And Liz, the, you know, manager, the gm, she's a badass and made it like. She just is incredible and made sure that the most amount of people could be in with the equipment and pack it. Like, yeah, she's a badass.

[Mike Pesca]

That was a really good special. And my criteria for that is the normal things, like, does it make you laugh? But also is it a really good reflection of what that comedian is doing in the moment? And it really was.

[Lisa Traeger]

That was my goal. So I'm glad you said that.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. Because I've done half hour specials before with Netflix and Comedy Central, and I felt everything's learning and I'm proud of those and the jokes and whatever, but it felt like a pageant. It's not like how I perform. It was like a theater. I usually don't do theaters. And then it's like, there's a teleprompter. I'm doing my jokes in my order, and that's not how I perform. And so I learned through that that I wanted to this to be how I perform, not put on some sort of, like, pageant show.

[Mike Pesca]

So you have no. You have no set list?

[Lisa Traeger]

No. I knew I was going to kind of open and close, like, my final joke, but I didn't write a set list for either show.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. The idea of the closer is classic in comedy, and everyone has to have.

[Lisa Traeger]

I was going to close on that joke, but everything else doesn't it end.

[Mike Pesca]

With you saying, all right, that's it, it's over.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And what about the touching your hair thing? Note to self.

[Lisa Traeger]

That just happened. And like you said, you know, you got the vibe. That was a reflection of how perform. And I like to be in the moment.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

And so I was in the moment the whole time because that's what I regret for my Netflix degenerates taping. There were things happening and someone I noticed and stuff, and I didn't address it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And it, like, kills me that I wasn't grounded in, like, the present.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

And so I just. And I know you can edit. So, like, I was fully present the whole time, and then I think I give it up to the editing.

[Mike Pesca]

What do you think?

[Lisa Traeger]

They picked the thing in the hair and people reacted and clapped. So I was like, oh, yeah, we'll leave this for sure.

[Mike Pesca]

Why in the Netflix thing, didn't you. Do you think. Do you think I think it's like.

[Lisa Traeger]

Experience and figuring out wanting to, like.

[Mike Pesca]

Perform for that network or be, like, not as confident in yourself. Well, you want Netflix to like you. You don't want to go off script and give them problems.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, they wouldn't care. No. And it's. It's the same exact. So Joanne Griggioni, I met her when she worked at Comedy Central, like, in 2012. And so I. That's. That's definitely not the vibe. But. And if I communicated that. But you don't know what you're allowed to do or what the best. Prof. You don't know any. You know, there's. You're kind of learning as you go, and I'm proud of that work. But then you definitely learn. What did I like? What didn't I like? How did I feel? What. How can I improve next time? Oh, I didn't like my hair and makeup person. He took too long. I didn't have enough time to focus. So next time, I'm gonna make sure I have a trial. I'm gonna use the same person I trust. I'm gonna get ready. Three hours or, you know, it's like all these little things. Oh, next time I requested something of the audience person. I would have never. I should have never done. I was like, next time, I would never do that. Like, next time, I. They were sleepy. They were also waiting for the comic after me, like they were fans of someone else. And I wish I just addressed it all, because at the end of the day, you can edit it. So it's like, be in the moment, but at the time, it's like, you want to get these jokes out. You work so hard, and you figure out what's important, and, like, that's the journey of it.

[Mike Pesca]

I feel like I interviewed Rose Bud Baker, and she said she's really proud of some earlier specials. Right. But those were. I mean, this is how she looks at it. Those were jokes that she's wrote, she's written, and she's proud of. And maybe at the time, they reflected her personality or what she was going through, but they were jokes, she said, for essentially the comedy community or someone else or someone to put her on the map. As in, these are my best jokes. If you are some comedy expert, you will look at me as an excellent craftsman. And then down the line, this specials get a bit more personal, a bit more reflective of what the comedian themselves want to do. Is there any aspect to that, your earlier specials being like.

[Lisa Traeger]

And what's more humiliating is it's like I talk about the same eight things all in. All of them, you know, know, we. It's like weed, come Jew, my parents, feminism, spending too much money. It really never changes. No, I never. Because I didn't start in New York. I think that's maybe where Rosebud and I like. Because we vibe and we taped the same year. They came out in the same year. But I started in Chicago, and so the industry was never something that any of us thought about.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Because I remember when I moved to New York, people complaining about not getting certain things. And then I found out they'd only been doing it three years. And I was like, wait, what's going on. Like, in my head, it was always this long. I don't. In Chicago, there just wasn't industry. So it's like, I don't think I ever thought about it.

[Mike Pesca]

Is it more improv, Chicago? It's very improv. But is it more than stand up?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, it's more like you want to make your friends laugh, like the comics. So I get that element, like making your comic friends laugh. But I just never think about stuff like that. I'm not as intentional. I feel like patterns emerge on acts. Patterns emerge?

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

That's why I feel like all my tattoos are random.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

But when I look at them as a whole over, like, the 15, 20 years I've been getting tattoos, I don't know, patterns emerge and colors emerge. And even I just put together a bookshelf, and I didn't realize, but I'm like, oh, my God, look at all this color. Like, so that's how I feel with the material. You just kind of do it.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, you're the same person.

[Lisa Traeger]

And then you're like, oh, this theme or this pattern or what's going on is happening. I don't think I've ever, like, intentionally thought, like, there's. I have ideas about things I believe in that I want to communicate to people. So I have those things that I try to figure out.

[Mike Pesca]

This will be. Here's a pitch. A show where we get the tattoos of either famous people or people known to the contestants. Yeah, but we don't know their tattoos. So it could be an NBA player, let's say, and you know his tattoos on his arms, but you don't know what's going on his body. And then you try to match the tattoos to the person based on what you know about.

[Lisa Traeger]

Really, really fun.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think people would get yours, the people who knew you, if they didn't know the tattoos?

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, I don't know. I don't know. But when I send nudes, I'm really specific about not making sure none of my tattoos are in it. So people think it's like I'm. Like, I'm being, like, fraudulent or something, but I can't have any of my tattoos in any.

[Mike Pesca]

When you send nudes.

[Lisa Traeger]

Correct?

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

Okay, I think about that. Yes, I think about that a lot.

[Mike Pesca]

But you also tell the joke that you got a tattoo when you were 16 with two other girls. One was named Barbara, maybe, or for the joke, it was Barbara someone else. The tattoo is where it's like, you.

[Lisa Traeger]

Know, it's like, above my pussy. I say but as a teen, that's.

[Mike Pesca]

Called the bikini line. Maybe.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, maybe I didn't even know the word, but yeah, we were in high school and we went. Went. There's good strategy for that apartment. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. That's not the strategy.

[Lisa Traeger]

It is so fun for you, like, that you watch these things because once I record something, I don't think about it ever again. Really?

[Mike Pesca]

Well, you have to think about that. It's part of your body every day time you look down.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, but I'm just saying, like, I don't think I stopped doing old jokes. And so that's another thing. Thinking about, like, old specials. My favorite is when people come up to me and they remember, like, they tell me an old joke from, like, so long ago that I forgot about fully and don't think about, but that they think about all the time. And then I. Of course, of those types of jokes, I remember about a lot of my peers.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. You know, this is the last one on the sending nudes question, but this is why I brought up the. The tattoo on your bikini line.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

How do you send nudes without disclosing that, given the location of that?

[Lisa Traeger]

I figure it out.

[Mike Pesca]

You do?

[Lisa Traeger]

I figure out. I figure it out now.

[Mike Pesca]

I figure it out. And we'll be back in a minute with more Lisa Traeger. And like I said, Luigi's coming. We're back with comedian Lisa Traeger. Yeah. Let's return to this conversation, which I enjoyed. She's so funny. When you. So you write jokes like anyone else, but do you want your jokes to come off at Unwritten? Maybe more than other comics do.

[Lisa Traeger]

I was early inspired by Dave Attell. He's my favorite. And so there was.

[Mike Pesca]

So I'm thanked in the credits. Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

And there I was, like, a few months into comedy, I think. So I was 21, and I saw him at the Lakeshore Theater in Chicago. And I went to all four of the shows. They were really comedy friendly there. And so you could sit in the lighting booth and edit. And they just, like, were able to fit us all in.

[Mike Pesca]

What year was this?

[Lisa Traeger]

2009, I would say.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, so you. This identifies you as, like, a comedy nerd aficionado early on?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, he just was. He came to my college when I was a freshman. Yeah, that's, like, how I found out about him.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

So I'm a freshman at Iowa State. We're in the basketball arena. It's freshman week, and I see this guy, but I don't think about it, but I remember the jokes. I Remember having a good time. Louis Katz opened. Like, I remember one of his jokes. Jokes. And then when did I see him again? And then I think I started comedy and went to all four of these at the Lakeshore Theater. And what I remember loving is every show was different and all the jokes were in whatever order. And then not only that, like, he was down with the crowd. And then I remember the third show having stuff that wasn't in any of the others. And I was like, this is fun. Like, this is fucking fun. And then another pitiful moment for that was my first time being able to feature for someone. It was Nikki Glaser, and it was me and my friend Kenny DeForest, and we got to go to Kansas City. We each did, like, 10 or 15. I don't remember. And she didn't. She wasn't writing a set list. And I was like, why don't we have a set list? She goes, well, I know my jokes. I know my chunks. So, like, it doesn't really matter. I just. However I do them, I do them. And I remember liking that. And so I think the mix of, like, a tell and that Nikki moment, I was like, oh, you don't have to be in order, do anything. You can know your stuff. You can. But Nikki doesn't do crowd work. But, like, with Dave, like, you can lead what's happening, lead the material and the order. And, like, you don't have to be that precious. And, like, figure it out. Yeah. So I think those. That's when I decided maybe that, like, I wanted to be present and not as rehearsed.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. So Attel is that he's everything. Right. He's like, one of the greats. But when you watch him, like, well, those are jokes. Those are written. Those are some of the most brilliant jokes. When I watch you, or I wonder if when the audience watch is you, do they say, well, that's a joke, or that is Lisa. And Lisa just funny. Like, I don't know if all comedians are giving. That is. That's the illusion. But with you, I do think it's a little more like in the very old special on Comedy Central, when you talk about all the times you were drunk and arrested.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

So you're at Iowa State, and we're just being drunk girls. We were complimenting and leaving. Meaning. That's one of the lines you say, okay. And I'm like, that's a joke. That's a written joke. It doesn't sound like a written joke. The way you say it is like, you just say funny things and I don't know if it lands. Like someone was thinking of that word order, but, man, is that great.

[Lisa Traeger]

That's so nice. Yeah. I don't remember that. That is fun. I like that I said that with drunk girls.

[Mike Pesca]

Do they compliment and lean? It's a lot of leaning.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, it makes me happy. It's, like, embarrassing. I just laugh at my own joke. This is fun.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, that's why you think it's fun.

[Lisa Traeger]

What a nice reminiscing. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

That's horrible fun in retrospect, not just because of what happened. If I was your. If I'm. Did you go to, like. Is it called. You're from Skokie, Illinois. Skokie High School. Is that the name?

[Lisa Traeger]

Niles North.

[Mike Pesca]

Niles North. Okay, cool. What's the nickname?

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know if you know the comedian Esther Pavitsky. Little Esther, but we went to high school together and, like, junior high in high school. We're one year apart, but yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Did you always do, like, funny things together?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, we weren't really friends, I would say, but we did theater. We were in Godspell together and, like, stuff like that.

[Mike Pesca]

Did you sing Day by Day, which was yours?

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I'm the only one without a solo. I'm a really bad singer.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, man.

[Lisa Traeger]

And, no, it's okay. I know my strengths and weaknesses.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And I tried really hard. I put all my effort in. I'm like. It's just like, I can't sing.

[Mike Pesca]

As a Jew, when you were saying, prepare ye the way of the Lord, were you committed to it? Did you mean it? Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

I didn't even think about. We have the best. I loved my theater teacher. I think about it all the time. We did it was, like, the greatest education. I loved it.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, so my question with Niles north is. What is my question? Oh, if I'm a guidance counselor at Niles North, I would say, knowing what I know from you now, probably less than your guidance counselor knew at a huge public high school. But, Lisa, Iowa State, I don't see that working so well. Why did no one say that to you?

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, I have, like, an S.O. at home. No one. My parents are like old immigrants. So, like, they kind of let me lead. But also, I'm the person in the family that everyone has to kind of, like, tiptoe around because I will fly off the handle. Right. Like, everyone kind of just lets me do what I want, in other words.

[Mike Pesca]

So if you have a bad idea.

[Lisa Traeger]

It doesn't really matter because my Parents also, with age comes wisdom. Knew that, like, you can't force anyone to do anything. Anything. They'll like, resent you and all that. And so. But also, it was because I shouldn't have gone there. But I really loved my junior year English teacher and I admired her a lot and she was smart and I had to make a great Gatsby visual project. And she was like, you really, like, nailed this. It was ap. And she just talked and I was like, oh, I should do advertising. I'm like, I should, like, do. And they had a good program.

[Mike Pesca]

So you got to get out of Chicago for advertising.

[Lisa Traeger]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

Not an advertisement. Ames, Iowa. That's where they know advertising.

[Lisa Traeger]

Crazy. Why I wouldn't stay in Chicago. But, like, no one really knew to say anything. And I'm a kid figuring it out. But maybe that proves that guidance counselors aren't real.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, like as in figments of our imagination or unqualified.

[Lisa Traeger]

I think I wanted to go away. I think I had a yearning for like, an American style, classic dorm, like, college experience. I think I, like, wanted that.

[Mike Pesca]

And what. What you.

[Lisa Traeger]

And maybe I took Chicago for granted, you know, but then I'm glad I got to start stand up there. But I think maybe I didn't realize what I was.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, but what you wound up doing was going to a local Christian college.

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, then. And then a Columbia college in between.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, really? That's a great school. But they're on tough economic times now, I hear.

[Lisa Traeger]

Which not university.

[Mike Pesca]

No, not the one here. The one there. Yeah, yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, maybe I did music business. I shouldn't. I'm like tone deaf. I just was like, not. I don't know. I. Well, because then I switched to sociology and Iowa. I was really kind of maybe cliche, but I was really into this professor my freshman year in sociology and I was like, this is it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. So, okay, so you did.

[Lisa Traeger]

I did Columbia College. And then that didn't figure out. And I was like, I'll go to. And then North Park. I went there, which is an evangelical Christian college.

[Mike Pesca]

Did you get a sociology education at North Park?

[Lisa Traeger]

I did.

[Mike Pesca]

So how does Christian college sociology differ from land grant state institutions?

[Lisa Traeger]

I will say it's like they're out of their mind. I went in there open minded, left hating religion in a way that, like, I went in. Really open minded.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And was disgusted. But I met my best friend there who was like a little older and like, worked there. And we're still friends, so it was all worth it in the grand scheme of things.

[Mike Pesca]

But do they teach sociology? Different is my question.

[Lisa Traeger]

So this is the thing. So like these weird Christian class, all these classes I had to take were annoying. But I would say the professor we had, it was maybe more service based and, and like missionary. But their tinge of missionary was braggy. It's weird. It's like it's all strange there. Cause I went in there after working at cool hair salons in the city and waitressing and I was doing standup. I was like a cool girl. And so to me then going and having to write papers on the ethics of gay marriage where they want you.

[Mike Pesca]

To say bad whatever it is.

[Lisa Traeger]

But it's like the fact that it was a discussion is crazy. Cause I had already been working at a hair salon with drag queens and roller derby lesbian girls. And just like I was partying in Boys Town in Berlin till 4 or 5 in the morning. Like it wasn't even a thought to me. Like I had met my first person. Like I had gay people in my high school and I was friendly with those guys. Like it just wasn't even a thing. And then you're with these people that are so close minded and having hard thoughts on like gay stuff. It was just, it just was wild. But sociology, it was easy. It was like easy school, it was easy. But we got to do experiments on the local schools. I remember having a good time paper on the Simpsons. I wrote a paper on the concept of virginity. I wrote something about the Ethiopian Jews. Like I don't like all those things. Yeah like I had a good time but. And I like I felt like the girls because in high school the long family, I loved them but they were the only few people that I found lived religious good ideals and weren't like like freaks of like. Like they were open hearted and did service and cared and everything.

[Mike Pesca]

Christian friends.

[Lisa Traeger]

But like dad was a minister and like because I have bad views on Christianity. But like the dad was a minister but like left his congregation because they weren't into gay marriage. Like I don't know lived this but usually people kind of suck and I felt that a lot at that school.

[Mike Pesca]

What about the Jews you knew in high school? Their religiosity?

[Lisa Traeger]

Well, it wasn't about. We're like Russian Jews. So like God forbid you're too religious.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Like be dangero God.

[Lisa Traeger]

Not even there but like here like I have an old friend, like a Russian Jew friend from high school and she became religious and her family was upset. It's like. What do you mean? It's I would say Skokie's super Jewish. I didn't think about my Judaism ever. It just was cultural all the time. We had Jewish holidays off. My sister went to a Jewish high school. I didn't get bought my, like, Jew. Like, I didn't know she went to a religious school. I hated religion from the beginning. I hated long skirts. I hated gender inequality. From the jump, I saw shit wasn't fair. Immediately. I was never. I mean, I'm sure I had moments where I was into it, but, like, I always was not a fan of separation of genders and rules. And what was going on is this. Oh, I liked holidays, but Judy Skokie's just super Jewish. So it's just always a cultural thing, percentage wise, right. Largest number of holidays, religious Jews. I'm always like, oh, God. Like, yeah, I don't like. Like, it bothers me. Organized religion bothers me. But, yeah, so. But I wasn't bothered. Like my sister's husband's family, I met them really young. Like they had minion and it was just nice. I don't know. Yeah, I had a nice time with Judaism.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think playing on the eighth grade boys football team did anything at all to advance the cause of feminism, even within the small circle of Skokie?

[Lisa Traeger]

I'm trying to think from me, what did I learn or not, But I don't think it did anything for anyone. Maybe some of those guys, I don't think they. I think everyone hated me and I didn't have a good time. So I don't know.

[Mike Pesca]

You do say somewhere that this personality for like 12 years only got people to hate you. Like the same personality you have now.

[Lisa Traeger]

People still do, but some people really enjoy me. And that's like, that's.

[Mike Pesca]

So do you want to be liked on stage? Because I've watched a bunch of your clips and oftentimes it works out great. But sometimes the crowd work is immediately you jump on someone. Maybe they've said something, but, well, I.

[Lisa Traeger]

Know the clip you're talking about. And I walked up and she immediately went, okay. Like, okay, Hot Topic.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Which is like, excuse me, bitch.

[Mike Pesca]

Think that was your line in the clip?

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, are you out of your fucking mind? Like, some people are out of their minds and needing to be put in line. Like I said, I'm in the moment. I'm never going up to hate anyone, but if I sense a Republican weird energy, I don't want you to have a good time. And I actually want to try to maybe, like, maybe give your wife a glimmer. Of hope that she has a life outside of you and to leave you when you get back to Ohio. You know what I mean?

[Mike Pesca]

Like, have you gotten that letter that that worked?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, but I gotten, I've gotten people telling me that my degenerate special. I do this long joke about coming that they make people watch it before they have sex with them. And if guys don't laugh, they won't them.

[Mike Pesca]

Interesting.

[Lisa Traeger]

And then I also have had people leave my shows live and later tell me that after the show like men get really upset and that they broke up with a boyfriend cuz he like hated me so much.

[Mike Pesca]

And you say you're welcome.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, yeah. And yeah, straight men don't usually comes to see me. And there's maybe like one table of like comedy straighteners or a guy heard me on Marin, let's say, and then brought his friends. But usually I perform for like girls and gays when I. I guess that's the football like connection of it is like, like proven time and time again. Men don't want to hear women. Like they don't think about it. They don't think about including women. It wasn't like, oh, this is fun, let's have women on the football team. It was like I was an annoyance to them. They wanted me gone. Right. Like they didn't want me there.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And that's, that's like carried out, I think throughout.

[Mike Pesca]

Like that's true.

[Lisa Traeger]

They don't come and like a lot of the guys, you know, it's like the single man tickets, it's like men go see these men and it's like arenas of men.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

And that's. And I think women. That's why the Barbie movie was such a fail to me. Like Greta Gerwig kept going. It's for men too. I want men to have a good time. It's for the. Why they don't think about us when they make their art, when they talk, when they say anything. Men don't think about us. And yet the Barbie movie, this icon, you had to think you wanted to make art. What make, you know, would be the best feminist thing. Make a movie for the girls. Like to even think about men while you're making a Barbie movie, it's like so humiliating. And so I think that's what I learned or that has come through in my understanding of the world is like men don't think about including us. It's a chore for them. They're not excited by it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

And women are constantly still. And now when women aren't men are obviously flipping out in the world.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. So what your sociology training would say is this is something like the dominant culture and the male gaze and just a default to maleness. I would say, though in the football context, maybe not the best example of it. So an early example because they do want to win at football. No, but maybe if you were great field goal kicker, they'd like you more.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know. Yes, sure. But like, Taylor Swift has brought hundreds of millions of dollars and new fans into a thing that men claim to love.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

And they hate her.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

They don't want to look at her and they're annoyed that anyone's involved. And it's like, I thought you loved this thing. Like, why aren't you happy that it's making more money to, you know, enlist people in the military? Like, I don't get it.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think it's a two way street with Taylor?

[Lisa Traeger]

Because the most that Taylor for the first time in concert went, there's a song where she goes, the guy on the screen coming home to me. She goes, the guy on the Chiefs lost their minds. If you go to a Taylor concert after they started dating, people are wearing Travis jerseys. We're making Travis bracelets like it's Taylor Swift boyfriend's shirts. Like, immediately happy. We love Travis. And Travis's career has grown because the Swifties now watch his podcast. Yeah. Buy his merch and support his team. So no, it's not a two way street in any capacity yet.

[Mike Pesca]

New heights.

[Lisa Traeger]

Because women don't like. I don't like. That is crazy. Like, you're mad that this player's girlfriend is shown one time on a screen. No. Like, the fans love Travis. Travis high fives. He's at the concerts. He's in the documentary series. She. When she sees him coming to the concert. Concerts, we lost our minds. When he surprises her, when she does like her surprise songs and we know he's in the crowd, we're like, oh my God, these are for him. Like, these are this song. Like, yeah, it's totally opposite.

[Mike Pesca]

I will def. I am not as familiar as you are with the Taylor Swift media oeuvre. I do watch a lot of football and know that there are bets the over under how many times they show Taylor.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And if it's more than five, people do get upset and they show them for like eight seconds.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, sure. But like, are you kidding? She's brought hundreds of millions of dollars to the NFL. Why wouldn't they show her?

[Mike Pesca]

Right. Of no, of course.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like why are you mad? You fucking. Like, it's. You hate women. Like, why are you. Why. It makes no sense to be mad.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

So you can't look because. Okay, we all do comedy. We. We talk about stuff. We talk about Hitler and the president and all this stuff constantly. Right. I. This has happened twice where I've mentioned Taylor Swift on stage and a man has gone, I fucking hate Taylor Swift. Like, that's a mental. Like you hate. Like you've heard jokes all night and the thought of this woman made you scream that in the middle of a show. That, that, That's a little crazy. This is happened twice.

[Mike Pesca]

But to be fair, Was it the 115 show on Saturday?

[Lisa Traeger]

It does it. It's like. But why the. Like, it still doesn't make sense. Even if you're saying the over under and it's 30 seconds of a three and a half hour gift. It makes no sense. She's the most famous person in the world.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. And objectively talented and bringing millions of people joy and yes, all of that. The hatred for her is.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's like crazy sign of something.

[Mike Pesca]

It's like, say you're telling on yourself, I think is the phrase. Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, it's. It's really. It's really strange. I don't know. We could talk about heated rivalry too, if we want. Have you been watching?

[Mike Pesca]

I was on Dan Savage's podcast to talk about it.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh my God.

[Mike Pesca]

Now do you think that one guy has.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't be honest with you. My flight is later. I'm going to a heated rivalry soul cycle class at 5:30.

[Mike Pesca]

What does that mean? They show clips or.

[Lisa Traeger]

And that's why I had to reschedule. I'm sorry, guys. And challengers it is. I'm bringing my suitcase to Williamsburg so I can go. And I was like. Because I messaged my teacher. She does Taylor Swift SoulCycle rides Jazz. She's like my favorite teacher, but she, she's really cool about themes and movies and in the culture and puts together just beautiful mixes of music and rides that are really fun. And so I messaged her being like, where's the heated rivalry ride? Like, what the fuck are we doing here? And she goes, it's already on the schedule. 5. I check there's three bikes left. I get one of my favorites. Thank God. So I get the bike and then I go, okay, I have to switch my day. I have to pack. I have to do this. How am I going to get to the airport? But I have to.

[Mike Pesca]

What's it going to be? They're not playing clips of the movie. How do you.

[Lisa Traeger]

So it's the songs. It's like she's like. The instrumental songs. Everything are probably the club song. Like the all you things you said. I'm like, probably maybe the sunshine song. When, like, Kip and Scott kiss. Like, we'll see. I don't know. And it'll be challengers, which is also kind of a horny sports. Not as horny in any capacity, but. So it'll be some challenger songs, too.

[Mike Pesca]

You think? And this shocked me when Savage said it. When Dan said it, which is that. That the guy who plays the Russian guy, his ass is big and round and perfect.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, it is.

[Mike Pesca]

You think so? Okay.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I'm not really into ass, but he talks about working hard for. Yeah. It's like, great. But also, I'm a native Russian speaker. The motherfucker is such a talented actor.

[Mike Pesca]

Really. It sounds like great Russian.

[Lisa Traeger]

It is the greatest screen Russian.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

That's ever existed.

[Mike Pesca]

What's the worst?

[Lisa Traeger]

It happens all the time.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

But I would say Matt Damon tells a story that I've seen online where the John Malkovich is coming to set for Rounders. And everyone's so excited. And then this accent comes out. Out. And everyone's stunned. And I guess pretty bad actor. I guess Malkovich turns to Matt Damon and goes, I'm a bad actor. I don't know why I'm here. Like, I'm not a good actor. And so that was like a funny story. But I love that accent, you know, splash. The. Like, I like it. I don't care. But Rocky. Nicole.

[Mike Pesca]

But do you remember this one? With ever. Whatever he hits, he destroys.

[Lisa Traeger]

Where is he from?

[Mike Pesca]

From Russia. And then Rocky goes to Russia and his coach is Russian. And Brigitte Nielsen is there all Brigitte.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't remember real life.

[Mike Pesca]

I said Dolph. I mean, Victor Drago's characters from Russia.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Has a PhD from a Scandinavian country.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. I don't remember Rocky. I'll be honest. Sorry. Fair. But the emotion, like, because it's not even the accent that he nails this actor. Connor. It's like, what's the vibe?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And whoever did the wardrobe overall, like, this show is just masterful.

[Mike Pesca]

Is his family back home?

[Lisa Traeger]

Are they Russian actors? They had to teach him how to say, I don't really speak Russian because his Russian was so good. Other Russians didn't know.

[Mike Pesca]

That's funny.

[Lisa Traeger]

And you know, that monologue he does, it's like, I don't. It's like, really? It's and he only had three weeks to prepare is.

[Mike Pesca]

I don't. Maybe you're not the right person to ask since you haven't been back, but is it a cartoon or stereotype how they depict his family back home?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, it's not a cartoon. It is a harsh culture.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

I think they want to suffer. I think it's. They love dictators. I don't. I mean, I don't know. There's a coldness and a harshness for sure to the Russian vibe. I think it's. Did you watch the whole show? Heated rivalry.

[Mike Pesca]

I think so. Up until 4 or 5.

[Lisa Traeger]

There's like. Cause he finally meets Shane's family. There's also a coldness. There's a no compliments.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

There's no one really says I love you. There's a. Like a barrier to open communication, to being. I think all of that is really true. And some of those scenes were triggering for sure. Oh, wow.

[Mike Pesca]

I had two more questions I want to ask you about your upbringing. You make a reference in the special to a thyroid condition and Chernobyl.

[Lisa Traeger]

True. No. I don't know. But I think a lot of us.

[Mike Pesca]

Just to establish your.

[Lisa Traeger]

I was born in a DSA and like, we all have thyroid problems, the whole family. And so it's like. No, I was. I was born in 87, not 86. Like, I don't know.

[Mike Pesca]

But the cloud.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, it's still there. I mean, I can't half life random that I have this thyroid thing and Chernobyl is close enough and like all of that. But.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

But the heated rival. I thought of it because it's like the man, like four women. It's like. I don't know. It's just like such a great show.

[Mike Pesca]

So I. Sorry, I said two more questions. But you're.

[Lisa Traeger]

I have time.

[Libsyn Ads Narrator]

Good.

[Mike Pesca]

Your Odessa question or reference made me wonder, do you follow the negotiations that are going on in the war? Are you really pulling for Zelensky here? Well, I know you want him to win, but are you following it day to day? No.

[Lisa Traeger]

No.

[Mike Pesca]

And if Odessa goes to Russia, would this be. I mean, how would you and your family react to this?

[Lisa Traeger]

I think it's sad. I don't know. I'm actually going. That's where I'm flying home today. I'm flying to see my parents in Chicago, in Skokie. But we're. Yeah. I want Zelensia. I want Ukraine to be free. Like, I don't. Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Now, growing up in Skokie, there was of.

[Lisa Traeger]

Obviously, I'm sad I never went back. And I'll probably never be able to see where I'm from, ever. You know, my sister went back when she was on her honeymoon with her husband, but, like, decades ago. But, like, yeah, I. You know, it's all about taking things for granted and. But we also left unrelenting. We left before the collapse. Like, I don't know, but I always thought I'd be able to go back, and I don't think that's gonna be ever possible.

[Mike Pesca]

That is so sad. Thank you, Putin. This is what I wanted to ask you about Skokie. So to establish it, most people probably know this famous, infamous Nazis marching through Skokie. ACLU defends it, and they teach a lot about it in the public schools. What do they teach? How do they teach? What's the message of the ACLU and free speech when you're growing up in.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah, it's actually 1999.

[Mike Pesca]

2.

[Lisa Traeger]

The KKK came to march when I was at school because the Nazis were, like, decades before, but the KKK came when I was a kid. And we also had a huge hate crime happen. It was like a killing spree for three days. I don't know if you remember, but they went to Purdue, killed someone, went to Rogers park in Chicago, killed people, came to Skokie, killed the Northwestern basketball coach blocks from my home. And then he was on his way to U of I and Urbana champagne and murdered more people. He was apprehended. Total white supremacist situation. And so I remember that happening. So all of that was always an undercurrent. I would say, say. But I remember learning about free speech and defending the right of anyone to fucking say what you need and why it's important. But I don't remember that march. I don't think anyone went to the march. Like, I think I. I remember the lesson being like. It's also from the Simpsons, but it's like, just don't look right. And I don't think the march ended up being a big deal because no one went or cared, because we. But we. You believe? Yeah. I was taught you fight for the right of everyone to say everything.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

That's why I was, like, so shocking when, like, the Columbia student was apprehended and the Tuft student and all these people were apprehended from articles and things they believed in and how quickly certain Jews were so, like, well, they shouldn't say that. And it's like, what the fuck are we talking about? It doesn't matter what they it doesn't fucking matter. And. And that was like a really horrifying moment for me. Current like that being how quickly I was just always taught you fight. Everyone gets to say what they want.

[Mike Pesca]

What about when you were doing comedy 10 years ago and that concept got challenged by ideas like words or violence or, you know, because of the privilege of some people, we have to reexamine the old ACLU standard of, you know, I respect your right to say whatever you want. I hate what you say, but I'll defend to the death right to say. Yeah. So there was a time when that was more ascendant the, the argument against the ACLU that words are violence. What were you thinking of that then?

[Lisa Traeger]

Then and now? I don't know. It's like, what do you want to say? Like, I don't get. I don't get it. Yeah. And I don't get the intent. And I think a lot of these actors have fake intent. Intense. Not that, like all these comics that they. I don't think the goal should be to make people laugh. And I don't know. And you could say whatever you want and do whatever you want if it's funny. Anthony Jesk says it like, if you don't, if you're not getting away with it, you're not being funny. And I think if you're funny, you could do whatever. But I mean, I say a word in my special that maybe I, you know, I shouldn't, but I think it was funny and worth it.

[Mike Pesca]

Not your 20 minute cum set. That wasn't the word.

[Lisa Traeger]

No, I say the R word. I say it. But I thought of, you know, I did it on stage for a long time and I liked it and I wanted to say it. And so it is what it is. But I don't know. I don't know. You could say whatever you want. But like, it's also. That's what's annoying. Then you also are you. It's like, say whatever you want. But then the entitlement for everyone to love it, be into it, laugh at it. It's like, okay, but then if someone is pissed in the crowd, they're the problem. Problem.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, I'm allowed to not like it or think you suck or think you're a piece of.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Lisa Traeger]

Or hate that you said that or think you're hateful. I'm a lot like. And if I. And I think the people that are on the returning end of prejudice in our society are more in tune with what is and isn't bad, and you could Say race stuff. You could say stuff. And people want to laugh. You know, people want to laugh. And so, like, I just, I'm curious at the intent and if, like, you do think it's funny, but people hate it, they should hate it.

[Mike Pesca]

I also think that some of the comedians who do that stuff and get blowback, it gives them a permission structure or an excuse to say that it was something other than the material. It was something other than the quality and funniness of the material that caused it.

[Lisa Traeger]

Also fighting for the rights of these people that suck at comedy. And I think context matters too. It's like, at the end of the day, say what you want, but if you're at the Republican National Convention talking, you will forever be like a fucking fascist to me. Yeah, I don't give a fuck.

[Mike Pesca]

What you say is not a funny convention. And it was.

[Lisa Traeger]

He also wasn't fun. No, you weren't.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, yeah, I would cover. Covered the RNC in Wisconsin. Yeah, Like, Hulk Hogan died soon after. Not that funny.

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know, it's just like, I don't get. They. They want to prove. I don't get the un. Cancelable. Cancelable. When you're getting 20 million and it's like fudgeing babies wanting to be victims of something because they're not funny enough to get attention. You know what I mean? Like, be fudgeing funny. Don't you want people have a good time? The end of the day, I'm like, desperate. It's like, I do want people to have a good time. I know people. I always say this. It's corny and. But it's like people got babysitters. People paid for parking, they came in, they bought tickets, they're going to drink minimums.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And you want to, fudgeing, ruin their night by talking like, I don't get it. I don't get it. That's like, not my vibe.

[Mike Pesca]

99% of them know to hold their tongue about Hot Topic comments.

[Lisa Traeger]

You know? And like, you can say fucked up shit. People want to have fun, but it's also like, if people don't like it, you have to be okay with that. Yes. You have to be okay not being liked or an audience not liking you for whatever reason. And sometimes people are babies. Like, there are words I say. Like, I. I say something about Columbine, but it's not even. The joke's not like. And people will react to just the idea of a word, not even what I'm saying. And like, I get the frustration of that but then it's like, make the joke better so there's no misunderstanding or they don't want to laugh. And then they have to because you got them.

[Mike Pesca]

That's great. That's what Jesel Nick loves to do.

[Lisa Traeger]

Right? The point, like, I don't. I don't. I say up shit. That's why with all these comics, I'm like, I have multiple rape jokes in my special. You're, you know, they're acting, being like, you can't say Veep is the most fucked up show there ever is.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And they say whatever they want because it's better than everything.

[Mike Pesca]

When people give you blow by blowback on the Columbine joke to do, what do you say?

[Lisa Traeger]

And blowback. It's like the reaction where I just keep going. Because to me, it's a statement. If. If they don't laugh, then it's a statement.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. That's good to have that out.

[Lisa Traeger]

So it's fine.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm pining now. Oh, yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And some of these are thinkers and I'm continuing. But usually there's like five people laughing because they had that experience. I did because I was in high school during that. So it's like. And I'm making a point. But it's like, if you don't want to laugh, it's fine. But it's like, I get the. Sometimes people react to a word or want to be offended or like certain things. Like, I get the frustration. But at the end of the day, you should want to kill in every room. So to say these Brooklyn rooms suck. And it's like, but don't you want to make them laugh too? Isn't that the joy of it, like making people laugh that don't want to turning a crowd? I don't know.

[Mike Pesca]

So let me ask you this. Every comedian will say, you know, you have to. The crowd tells you what's working. Right. Which isn't to say. Which isn't to say. Like, all I do is pander to the crowd. But, you know, set after set, this works, this doesn't. How do you then judge when this Columbine reference, which you know what your intent is and a lot of people do get it, but if it consistently causes some sort of murmur or taking a significant portion of the audience out of the crowd, then out of the moment, then how do you.

[Lisa Traeger]

I'm okay with it. Because it's like not even seven seconds. Yeah, it's like, oh, a sentence. So I don't care.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you like that it's causing that region A little bit.

[Lisa Traeger]

It's funny. It's funny. I make it. I think it's funny. So it's like, there's, you know, I'll get a tag eventually. I'll figure something out. Maybe it's a moment here and there. Like, I'll figure out a time. Maybe I'll give people a moment to get take. I don't know. Like, I'll figure it out. But I like, you know, it's like a sentence.

[Mike Pesca]

Got a minute?

[Lisa Traeger]

What time is it?

[Mike Pesca]

It's 3:25.

[Lisa Traeger]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, here we go.

[Lisa Traeger]

I plan till 3:30, then I'll walk. I'll pick up laundry. I'll pack. I'm going to take a. Yeah, like, I. I should have done more this morning, but I was truly in a heated rivalry. Like, I, like, can't get out of it in terms of, like, the horniness of it, but the sweetness of it, but also just on an artistic level as an admire, like. Of, like, tv. Like, it is incredible.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you know anything about hockey?

[Lisa Traeger]

No. I've actually never been to a hockey game, which is wild. But it's funny. It's like anytime hockey is about to happen, it cuts.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I know. There's like, two hockey.

[Lisa Traeger]

What's really cool is I love that they're good, and I feel like I like that they're both rich, and I like that they're both good at hockey. And, like, having this kind of power play sex when people are both. That powerful is cool.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Like, it.

[Mike Pesca]

I don't think there are too many heroes or TV shows where the person isn't good at their job. Like, even in mash, it only works if Hawkeye is this great surgeon. Of course, Mad Men only works if John Ham's Kev Don Draper, slash. Yeah. Okay, so here's my Luigi question.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

How much is the shtick you do around Luigi Sincere. And how much of it is a comic exaggeration of your general feelings?

[Lisa Traeger]

I think my feelings are being shown to me in reality, with what's happening in court. So, like, the. The charges are being dropped. Like, the two most heinous charges have been dropped on the state level.

[Mike Pesca]

Terrorism one.

[Lisa Traeger]

And the most, murder one. Like, so, you know, they also. They broke a lot of laws in Pennsylvania, so that's the fruit of the poisonous tree. We're talking core. We're not like, Casey Anthony killed that child.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

But you have to prove it in court.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

At the end of the day, beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don't think that this is going to be able to happen?

[Mike Pesca]

Well, the judge hasn't ruled on that yet. So the defense is arguing that all the police interrogation should be thrown out.

[Lisa Traeger]

Have already been thrown out of him because they didn't tell him that they were videotaping in Pennsylvania. It's a two person consent thing. So that has been thrown out and we'll see what happens. But at the end of the day, when you look through the backpack and there wasn't a gun, and then there's no body cam footage, and then at the precinct, suddenly there's a gun. That's a question. And at the end of the day there's a, like, that's like a chain of custody issue.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. But also a defense attorney would absolutely say that.

[Lisa Traeger]

But also, yes. You're telling me you can't call something a manifesto when no one said it's a manifesto. Co also lie to the news.

[Mike Pesca]

Sure.

[Lisa Traeger]

So all of those initial statements are from police, which are uncredible sources. And for a letter to be like thanking the FBI is like, it's not real to me in any capacity. I don't think the eyebrows match. I don't think a lot of the timing matches. I don't think the case.

[Mike Pesca]

You don't think, you don't think it was Luigi? You really don't think Luigi committed the murder?

[Lisa Traeger]

I think they like fucked with the wrong person and I don't think, I think they underestimated it. Also, it's very suspicious to, to me is what a huge case. And obviously so much is going on in the world, so I understand nothing can fully dominate. But the fact that this isn't in the news cycle more makes me question the case more. Because also he's that attractive. And that's like part of the shtick I do is like, if someone is that attractive, wouldn't they be on the covers of magazines? Wouldn't we be covering it all the time? The fact that like the media is being suppressed, that's like a issue for me too because I'm reading court transcripts.

[Mike Pesca]

I think Luigi's got a lot of attention. Like if you look at that Axios chart of the most covered news items, culture has shifted.

[Lisa Traeger]

But because I'm thinking about things that have been a long time ago.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm not even the most famous guy in the detention center. He's in, in Brooklyn.

[Lisa Traeger]

But I'm just thinking about like Scott Peterson, right? Like cases like that, that whirlwind it even P. Diddy. It's like a lot of news. Luigi, I'm reading Court transcripts to get information. It's like really hard. You have to look for it. It's not really in the thing. It also start also like the fact that they're treating him like he's sitting in court with all these cops around him. Like they don't do that to anyone. You know, they just don't do that to people. I think that. And also what's fucked up is the fact that there's federal New York State and Pennsylvania state charges all together and all contradicting. So if you defend yourself from one, you're implicating in another. And I think that's all crazy.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And I also think this administration, this attorney general are like, they love capital punishment. And his last presidency, a lot of people were executed that shouldn't have been. And these are like execution happy people. And attorney general should be. I mean our government's not real anymore, but it's like there should be. Attorney General is like. Yeah. And so like the fact that you have an attorney general lusting for the death and speaking for the death of a person that's not been convicted of a crime is crazy to me. And I also find it suspicious that they said he was at the George Washington bus terminal, which is a very surveilled place in the city and there's also a police station in it. So I'm confused how he was able to leave the city.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you want the killer of the.

[Lisa Traeger]

And the meeting happened?

[Mike Pesca]

Which meeting?

[Lisa Traeger]

The health care meeting.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, the, the, the meeting. Shareholders meeting.

[Lisa Traeger]

Also it's a professional like to have a double cock gun like that and be able to leave the city so stealthily and do all of that.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

And then be found publicly with all the evidence and what ended up having to the backpack that was found in Central park in quotes like I did just am seeing a lot of strange things and I'm looking into it, but this happens all the time to a lot of people who are not as like hot and not as high profile of a thing. But I don't know. I think it's strange for a boss to be murdered that was about to lead a meeting and then the meeting to continue. Do you think that's strange? Do you not?

[Mike Pesca]

Do you know? I don't know. I don't know. The meeting to continue. I guess any job, I guess the exegesis of capitalism are such that the shareholders of UnitedHealthcare cannot be denied. But do you want the real killer of this gentleman to be caught and brought to justice?

[Lisa Traeger]

No, I actually believe that More rich people need to be murdered violently in the streets. Legit.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Lisa Traeger]

I think it's the only way out of this. I think we need to start slitting throats of the wealthy, murdering them violently so that others start acting right. Or we can continue to suffer and suffer and see how long this, you know, people are already suffering hugely. We'll see how long people want to do that. But I think we need a murder. Murder them all if.

[Mike Pesca]

Are you 100 serious?

[Lisa Traeger]

A hundred percent.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay. If you were joking, what would you do to let me know? I think. I think you're serious.

[Lisa Traeger]

I am.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, good, Good.

[Lisa Traeger]

Most of the things I say on stage I believe in. And maybe there's hyperbole or silliness or like a tinge of something, or I say the opposite. Or like there's definitely, like, things I say that I think are just silly.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Lisa Traeger]

But to me, I have a microphone. I don't take it not seriously. Like, I say what I mean. That's another thing I hate about these comics, when they get. I didn't even just suggest joke. And it's like, why are you wasting people's time talking about things you don't even mean? It's so stupid. But yeah, I think that's like French Revolution. Like, these people need to die. So no humanity, These people, they want us dead. I mean, listen, all the interviews of.

[Mike Pesca]

The AI Bad for business. The health care people, they want us all dead.

[Lisa Traeger]

Are you kidding me? They want us dying.

[Mike Pesca]

No clients.

[Lisa Traeger]

They're prolo. Are you out of your mind? They want us all dead. Every industry doesn't care. Our food is poisoned, our things are poisoned, our toys are poisoned. Poisoned working conditions are poisoned. No one has insurance. People can't afford to live. Homelessness is illegal. They want people fucking enslaved in these human concentration camps. Like, what are we talking about?

[Mike Pesca]

Okay?

[Lisa Traeger]

They want us dead. And they're open about it. They asked the AI guy, like, hey, do you think humans? Or the plantier guy, whatever, one of these sickos. Do you. Do you want humans to survive? And they couldn't answer. They don't care about us. So why are we not murdering them?

[Mike Pesca]

So this is what I want to.

[Lisa Traeger]

Sweeping dead people off the floors of Amazon and I have to give a shit about them.

[Mike Pesca]

This is what I want to ask you as someone with a training in sociology.

[Lisa Traeger]

Traffickers. Someone with human traffickers.

[Mike Pesca]

As someone who understands them, as someone who understands motivated reasoning, how do you make sure that the outcome you want to be true isn't affecting your judgments on whether or not the fact or not that Luigi Mangioni was actually this killer. Because you're saying if he was, you have no problem with that. But also he wasn't. That's kind of convenient. And this is an example of motivated reasoning.

[Lisa Traeger]

But it's not even. But I'm also. I mean, there's a reason the crime, outside of the looks and whatever. Like, there's a reason it worked. And I guess I'm confused why we care about this one dead man and not the hundreds of thousands, if not millions that die all the time because of their lack of health care. My. My friend who has an amputated leg insurance this year decided they're not going to cover his, you know, what is it called? The fake leg prosthetic. They're just not going to. They don't think so.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

The robot said it doesn't like these motherfuckers. Like, that's. I don't know what motivated reasoning is, but I know the fact that I'm sick of thinking that that man has any. Who gives a. About him. I have to care about that man being murdered. That I care about the, like, people that are dying at home from diseases that are curable because they don't have. Have a job. That's who I give a shit about.

[Mike Pesca]

But you also said something very interesting. There are hundreds of less hot people who are, of course.

[Lisa Traeger]

And I have a podcast. So I talk about this constantly. And I talk about the inequalities of the justice system. I know race implications on everything. I don't. You know, the fact that he has one of the top attorney teams that have ever existed in a process. And a former prosecutor, worked In New York, second in command for 27 years, is like an incredible thing to see. But yeah, people are being tricked all the time into pleading guilty for things they didn't do. They're being railroaded. Evidence isn't done like people with mental illness. There's so much happening. And I think about it all the time, but I think making jokes about that is harder. Like talking about all of the crime and all of the injustice that happens in crime and like everywhere, all over the world is fucked. And I think the Luigi element that makes it easier to kind of talk about is that he's hot. Is the memes, is the fascination. Is the, like all of that.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And it is a real man's life on the line. I do know that, like his life is on the line.

[Mike Pesca]

I think a lot of people who do the memes are insincere And I don't mean they're just mercenary. I mean that there's, like, a jokey element to it and dressing up like the Mario Brothers character. But do you think people take you? I wasn't 100% sure. Yeah, I know you're a sincere person. I wasn't 100% sure of your true feelings. Do you think some percentage of the audience takes you as being more on the jokey side of this?

[Lisa Traeger]

I don't know. I have no. Everyone's always different. But recently I was in a crowd that, like, mostly hated me, I would say, at the View. But two defense public defenders, a married couple public defenders halfway down, were clapping nonstop and putting their arms up. And so to me, I go, the public defenders like me. Or there's another time I was not doing well upstairs, like, at the fat whatever, and I was. And the one guy was, like, loving me. And I go, are you a professor? And he was a college. College professor. And I go, yeah, you're smart. The rest of your fucking dumb. You know, like, I do have these moments of gratification when the people that like me. Same with my podcast. When people that work in forensics listen, lawyers people are social workers. Listen to my podcast, it makes me know that I'm, like, on the right track of certain information. But I think it's easier to talk about him because he's, like, hot, sexy, and we hate health insurance, so it makes it easier. But I'm unaware of the tons of people that are put through the courts with no attention at all, that. That didn't commit crimes that cops planted evidence on that were profiled untreated. Right. Didn't get a good lawyer. Like, yeah, that's definitely all real.

[Mike Pesca]

You showed an impressive depth of knowledge on this. Do you spend a lot of time on this? Compared to, say, heated rivalry?

[Lisa Traeger]

I. I'm like. I'm an obsessive person.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Lisa Traeger]

So as soon as I like anything, I read all the interviews, I watch all the stuff I want all the merch, and I'm going to see you live. I'm going to perform. Like, me being a fan of is a gift because I'm obsessed. And I. And I. And I like a lot of stuff, so I. Look, I'm lucky. But with my podcast, I have to study the true crimes, and so I've just become a little more proficient. It's hard because I don't fully understand everything all the time, and it depends on the crimes, what's happening. So sometimes it's easier, but sometimes I do have to read FBI reports or like, I, you know, I have to just like, do stuff that I. I guess I never thought. Thought I would be fully.

[Mike Pesca]

You have to.

[Lisa Traeger]

But I have to call it. And then sometimes you. You find new things to be upset about. And I've been doing this podcast now for over five years, and I was shot just because me and my co host, we switch off who researchers and who recaps.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

And I just learned about, like the off, like informants and how many young people have died because of lack of training and how they're used by cops and inform. And I'm like, oh, my God. Another new thing that I didn't know. But robot that exists and how unfair that minor drug charges and they're sending. You know, like, I didn't even know about that. So the depths of the darkness never end, I would say. And because of SVU, like, they did an Epstein episode 15 years ago and they've done a second 12 parter since. But I'm just saying, like, none of this is new. It's happened forever. And I research it all the time. And it's really sad. And how many people suffer from it. And that's what. When you were saying about, like, what's your point? Because I saw someone murdering one time at Gotham who I hate, who's really successful now. But it was a joke about how you should be so lucky to be molested by Michael Jackson and how he's like the king of pop. Whatever. People were loving it, laughing. But because of what I know, and it's fine, people are laughing, so it doesn't matter. But in my head, I'm like, I Bet there's like 20 people that were molested in this crowd right now. Even more. And I think. I just think about how many people live with the trauma and what their lives look like because of it. The homeless, the criminal, all of these that we punish. I think about it all the time and that we care more about the future of comics that are abusers and when they can get back on stage more than the lifelong trauma of what these things do to people. And so when you talk about, like, what can you say? And not on stage. Stage, say whatever you want. I have rape jokes. I'm doing a new joke about being molested. Like, I was. I have not been molested, but I'm doing a new joke. But I want those people to laugh. Like, I don't want some. I just. I personally don't want someone sitting there that's gone through that to See a room full of people laughing at that. And that's just me. And we all have our own things that matter. And I don't like domestic violence, but Nicole Amy Schreiber, as such a good domestic violence joke, I love it. Laugh every time. So it's like I'm down to laugh, but those are the things I think of all the time because I'm researching it all the time.

[Mike Pesca]

Lisa Traeger has a background.

[Lisa Traeger]

Funny. I am funny. I am fun. I'm funny.

[Mike Pesca]

She loves mochi, cheap eggs. Lisa Traeger has a background in sociology and owls and apparently the chain of evidence. We found out a lot today. It's a year old special. It's worth it. She is the night owl.

[Lisa Traeger]

I keep plugging it because in a year after it comes out, Netflix can keep it and give me a ton of money or I give it. They have to give. They give it back to me and I don't want that.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Lisa Traeger]

So keep watching it. Keep plugging it. Tell your friends, because I'm going for that payout one more year.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, one. A whole nother year from now.

[Lisa Traeger]

Yeah. So it's like from the two year from when it comes out, you get two years and then they either get to keep it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Lisa Traeger]

Or give it back to you. And I want them to keep it.

[Mike Pesca]

Keep it.

[Lisa Traeger]

So I want. Yeah. So please watch it. It doesn't. Yeah, keep it, Netflix.

[Mike Pesca]

Thank you, Lisa.

[Lisa Traeger]

Thank you. Oh, my God. Sorry.

[Mike Pesca]

And that's it for today's show. Cory Wara, who I shall name as the producer of the Gist. Then there's Kathleen Sykes. Nope, not her real name, but close, close to her real name. She does the job. Just list. And there is a guy named either Craig Jeff or Jeff Craig. I'm going to leave it ambiguous. He runs everything that moves on the Gist feed. And of course, Leah Yanni, if that is indeed her name. Here's a hint, it's not. Michelle Pesca is in fact the CEO, but I'm never going to tell you what that stands for. Of Peach Voice Fish Productions. And thanks for listening.

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