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- [00:01]
A
Ever notice how ads always pop up at the worst moments when the killer's identity is about to be revealed during that perfect meditation flow on Amazon Music, we believe in keeping you in the moment. That's why we've got millions of ad free podcast episodes so you can stay completely immersed in every story, every reveal, every breath. Download the Amazon Music app and start listening to your favorite podcasts. Ad free included with Prime. Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt. It requires merely one thing, a SOFI personal loan. With it, you could save big on interest charges by consolidating into one low fixed rate monthly payment. Defy high interest debt with a SOFI personal loan. Visit sofi.com stunt to learn more. Loans originated by SoFi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.
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B
It's Friday, November 21, 2025. From Peach Fish Productions, it's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca President Joe Biden Senior adviser Mike Donilon hasn't talked much about the 2024 race, but he was there on stage at a recent USC conference on President Biden being pressured to drop out of the 2024 race end. He said this about the polls.
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A
This what I think.
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B
You know, go back and look at the polling at the moment, okay. And I think you'll be surprised by a few things.
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A
Biden went into that debate roughly two points down nationwide. The race got closer in the days after the debate. It didn't get wider.
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B
Wow, that does seem compelling. He's certainly assured that. And also dishonest or at least unbelievably misleading. Here's a sample of CBS News coverage from the days after the debate when the first polls were coming in. All of this comes as concern mount.
- [02:12]
A
Within the Democratic Party about whether the.
- [02:14]
B
President can defeat former President Trump in November. Those concerns rising as a new post debate CBS News poll shows a shift and keep battleground states away from the president. And here is New York Times reporting. I put all this up on my Twitter feed @psc. Aimee here with the states. Takes a few days for good polling to come in. I'll read what the Times reported. In the weeks after the debate, Biden's position deteriorated in three states crucial to his reelection. Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. And the numbers were Michigan down three, Pennsylvania down three, Wisconsin down three and then North Carolina down one, Arizona, Georgia down to each, Nevada down three. That was since the debate. Now, yes, granted, Donilon there said if you look at the national polls he didn't do as well. Those are irrelevant. And also that didn't comport with the truth. But it was a great service, a great public service that Mike Donilon engaged in during that USC panel because he confirmed what was reported and assailed in many places, including Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson's book Original Sin. A key meeting between Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden had Schumer begging him to get out of the race because his pollsters weren't getting the information to him. Three people I'm going to name our pollsters. This is quoting Schumer. I've talked to Garron and Pollock and Murphy and they think it's a 5% chance, 5% that he Biden wins. Really? Biden said. They're not telling you, schumer said of Donilon and Rachetti, another key adviser. The pollsters told me he's not seen our polls. It all goes to Donilon and Donilon interprets it. The book also has a scene of the pollsters presenting the dire polling information to Donilon of the battleground states, in other words, the ones that matter, on a zoom call. Finally we got our information out. That call ended with Donilon saying, currently I look forward to reviewing your data. The next day they were phoned by Rachetti, that other adviser, saying, if I was the president, I would fire you. Pollster shouldn't tell the president if he can win just what the numbers say. Rachetti went on to say, Donilon has been looking at the data and has come to a different conclusion. We would love to talk to Donilon about what he sees in the data, Garon said. Garon told his fellow pollsters Murphy and Pollock about the call. There was no way that Biden was dropping out. They all thought, well, he did over the advice of Mike Donilon, who who we just heard there acting very much as he did as a gatekeeper and a Pollyanna ish figure in a pretty sad episode in American democracy on the show today. Let's pull a 180. Let's get funny. Let's talk about funniness and humor and life and love and words. Mike Kaplan is here. I've interviewed him on the show a few times. We are friends. He is a Mike who spells his name my Q. And yet we've bridged that divide. I think you'll understand why when you hear our talk. Funny you should mention it's because Mike is always ready to meet you halfway. Mike Kaplan funny You should mention up next. When you're, say, 52 or 53. I don't know how old you think you are. I don't know how old you think you are. I think I'm maybe in my 40s. I was thinking about. Oh, I was in my 40s back then. And I couldn't quite put my finger on what I look like, what I felt like. I told myself a story, it was the same, but, you know, it wasn't the same. It's the. The creakiness of the knees. It's the recovery after, say, doing what I thought was a pretty normal thing. It was the diet or the lack of dieting. And used to be a little leaner than now. It's. This is a big one. The energy crashes at 2pm like it's just supposed to, but it didn't used to. All right, you know what we're talking about? We're talking about testosterone. And we've been thinking about ways to get your testosterone up. You go down that Internet rabbit hole. There is a sphere, a sphere. O for man O's. Don't bother with that. Bother with. It's really no bother. Mars Men. Mars Men gives you the same benefits of optimized testosterone. Energy strength, focus without shutting your body down. No needles, no synthetics. Just a really cool case with a really cool series of jars. And those are the Mars Men supplements doing their job, hitting the reset button on the hormone factory that is you and yourself. Natural ingredients that support healthy tea levels, stamina, and recovery. Mars Men gives me constant energy. I have to say, the lifting, the dead lifting has gone well. I kind of can't believe that my back is taking it, but I'm gonna keep doing it until it doesn't. I'm setting personal records, trying to contain my pride in myself. Thank you, Marsman. For a limited time, our listeners get 60% off for life and two free gifts. When you use gist at men, go to mars.com that's mengotomars.com and use code GIST at checkout. After your purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. It's very important to say the gist. Please support our show and let them know our show sent you. Owning a home's amazing. It's a dream. A dream that people strive so much of their lives to achieve. One day you're luxuriating and sipping coffee. Iced for me, a warm cup of joe for my honey in the backyard. Then boom. Burst pipe. Boom. Why is hail coming through the skylight? Boom. The floor is buckling repairs. Much like the honey badger, they don't care. You know, you protect your health, your car, your phone. What about your home? Your biggest investment? When things go wrong, the costs can hit hard and hit fast. That's what happened to me. And that's where HomeServe comes in. Regular homeowners insurance doesn't cover a lot a lot of the day to day. In fact, the insurance kind of exists not to cover the day to day. So I'm talking about H vac breakdowns or electrical issues or plumbing failures. You're on your own. HomeServe offers a subscription for as little as 499amonth. They have a 24. 7 hotline. It is super simple. Choose a plan for your needs and your budget and when something goes wrong, call their 24. 7 hotline. They've been doing it for over 20 years. I use HomeServe and you should too. Oh, and what a process it was to try to claw back some of our money and some of our time. This is one of those where I could talk to you about regret, but now instead I will talk to you about taking the action I wish I did. Help protect your home systems and your wallet with HomeServe against covered repairs. Plans start at just 499amonth. Go to HomeServe.com to find the plan that's right for you. That's HomeServe.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between 499 and 1199amonth. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs. Hi, welcome to Funny youy should mention the show where I, Mike Pesca, talked to comedians about the ideas informing their comedy. So the original conception was comedians, you know, they're like the new op ed writers but with jokes. But my guest Mike Kaplan actually mentioned this at the front of his new comedy special, Rene. The comedians, they're like philosophers, right? Are they really, though?
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A
Great question. Maybe you're the philosopher. I mean, truly, that's just, that's just.
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B
A taste of the deep inquiry we're going to get into.
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A
Yes, yes. I mean, I think that philosophy, I think about this topic of like what is a noun and what nouns do, what verbs, you know, like to be. What is a writer? One who writes. Okay. Yes. And then professionally or not professionally, what is a comedian? Do you. How many times have you had to get paid to do comedy to call yourself a comedian? And you know, these things are all.
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B
Relative for someone who actually has authority to call you comedian because. Yes, people self define in different ways.
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A
Absolutely. And I'M generally for self definition for anything where, you know, like not for doctors, you know, like for some jobs there are like certification processes that we as a society so far generally agree. Like, you're not a doctor unless you.
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B
Take these steps or you're in a band and you call yourself Dr. Teeth or Dr. Hook or there is a band exception, I think.
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A
I mean, you can.
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B
And the medics. I don't think he was a doctor. Maybe a botany.
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A
You can call yourself those things. I mean, like the Dr. Pepper, the soda is not in any risk of being confused for a medical doctor, though. There was a Dr. Pepper, a medical doctor who was sued by Dr. Pepper, I believe once. And he's like, no, but this is my name. And if he started making soda, they would have had a case. But he's a medical doctor. This is all to say philosopher is like, sure, if you have a PhD in philosophy, arguably you're a philosopher though. Also, I just read this book by Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Have you read that one?
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B
Yes, yeah, sure, sure.
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A
And in it they discuss like the differences between theoretical magicians and practical magicians. And like the, the practical magic. Yes, Theoretical magicians were ones who didn't do magic. They only like studied it. Like they were like PhDs in magic. But they're like, oh, no, no. They were like the physicists describing the work of a juggler. And like a juggler, a juggler doesn't have to know physics to do the juggling and the physicist doesn't have to do the juggling in order to know the physics.
- [12:32]
B
That's by the way, what I think journalism school should be. It shouldn't train journalists. It should analyze journalists and say, that's a good piece of. No, I really do believe that. Now on the Dr. Pepper front, on the Dr. Pepper tip, as the kids would say in 2004, I used to drink Mr. Pibb. Do you know Mr. Pibb?
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A
I do.
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B
It's like the cut rate Dr. Pepper. But I also like the fact that he didn't have high flav pollutant aspirations. He didn't claim to have gone to medical school. And then there was a member of Congress named Claude Pepper. And I wonder if Coke or whoever owned Dr. Pepper could sue this Dr. Pepper was Claude Pepper open to lawsuit from, say, McCormick Pepper or the spice maker of the pepper? McCormick being the only brand I know.
- [13:14]
A
Great, great questions. My, My answer is. Mr. Pibb, please. That's my father's name. And the. Just to put a button, there'll be Many buttons. But one button in the question of.
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B
This would be a interview, my friend.
- [13:28]
A
What is a. Is a comedian a philosopher? So what is a philosopher? I think that you do not require a degree to be a philosopher. There's no specific governing board. I mean, there's no governing board for comedians nor philosophers. And so I do think that what makes someone either a comedian or a philosopher is in the doing what do you do? And like, the question of do people. I mean, there's so many people who watch. Like, I've been doing comedy since 2002. I've been doing it all as my only job since 2008. And there are still people who comment on my videos. Like, I had one recently. Like, about. I mentioned in it that I'm a comedian. I mentioned in my joke that I just start. It was like a TV set, it was a late night. So I think I was like I said I'm a comedian after I told a joke, because I think it's funny to say I'm a comedian when people theoretically should already, like, yeah, you don't have to. You understand. I don't know.
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B
Text clues. Yes, exactly.
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A
Do you know the Gricean maxims? Have we talked about these?
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B
I don't know yet.
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A
H. Paul Grice or HP Grice or Paul Grice or simply Grice?
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B
Come on, come on, Grice. Pick one.
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A
Here's the thing. It's funny that his Wikipedia page has all of those listed because his maxims are basically descriptors of standard human communication and how it operates. The four maxims are the maxim of quality, quantity, relation and manner. So.
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B
Oh, yes, I have heard this. Yes, yes, this is important. Right, right.
- [14:53]
A
And so in ordinary conversation, when you're talking to somebody, you can generally agree with the. And we're not talking joke, we're not talking lying, we're talking, you know, people in good faith, communicating, trying to understand each other. Most of the time you're going to tell people, quality is you're telling them the truth. Quantity is you're giving them as much information as they need, but not specifically more. Which is why Paul, hp, H, Paul is all in there. And that's funny. Relation is you're telling them something relevant. Like if somebody said, is John home? And you said, well, there is a green car in front of his house, that should mean that, well, he has a green car. Probably we both know that. Otherwise it would be.
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B
And his body is in it.
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A
Yeah, yeah, Just he hasn't gone anywhere because his car is there. And then manner is that it's not hazy. It's not. It's. It's clearly. It's not obscured. And so jokes actually, like, you know, do, like, play around with these things, like, how many months have 28 days?
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B
And the answer is all of them.
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A
Right.
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B
Which is.
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A
The Gricean answer is like, it's one stupid. Shut up. You know, come on, get out of here with that. Or like, do you have the time? Yes. You know, like, we understand, right?
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B
If you say yes, are you answering the question or not? And Grice would say on these rubrics you are, and on these you aren't.
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A
Yes. Letter of the law versus spirit of the law. And so there I was, I said, I'm a comedian, which I think flouts the Gricean maxim of probably quantity. I don't need to say that. You already have that information by the fact that I am doing comedy on this late night comedy show. And still in the comments. I don't know if you ever read an Internet comment, but they're usually very constructive.
- [16:26]
B
They give me my best ideas.
- [16:27]
A
Absolutely. I mean, that's all that we need. If only the world were only Internet comments. But what would they be commenting on? Somebody?
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B
Isn't our president a reply guy?
- [16:36]
A
You heard me say somebody said comedian. Words have meaning, pal. And I went back and forth with him for. I think a few other people sort of were like, he definitely is a comedian. I mean, like, you don't think I'm a good. Like you. Here's the thing. It's like, you don't have to think I'm a good comedian, and you don't even have to think I'm a comedian, but I'm a. Everything is relative to some degree, but compared to most people, I'm a comedian. And he says, words have meaning, pal. And I'm like, what does the meaning of pal have to do with this?
- [17:10]
B
Right. And you could come back at him with, what are you, a lexicographer? And then the answer would be, I have no idea what you're talking about. Thus proving that he's certainly not a lexicographer. Now, as to the question of philosophy, you don't specifically. Well, maybe you call this out as philosophy. There is the paradox of the heap, or as it's sometimes called, and I thought this was named after a philosopher, but it's just named after the Greek word for heap, the sorority's paradox.
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A
Yes.
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B
And so this is the idea, and this is, I know what you're doing with this, Mike. I maybe know what you're doing with this even more than, you know what you're doing with this.
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A
I'm excited. Yeah, yeah, Learn what I'm doing.
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B
What you're doing with this is. First of all, let's define the paradox, which is essentially, hey, that's a heap of sand. We all know that. Hey, that's a grain of sand, but not a heap. We all know that. Okay, in between, when's the grain or collection of grains become a heap?
- [18:05]
A
Because at any point, if you add or take away one grain, almost all of the time, that doesn't change whether it is or is not a heap. But it does have to change at some point. It's sort of like, I feel like it's related at least spiritually to. There's a parallel to the wave particle duality of nature. Like it's a wave. It's made of particles or, you know, like notes in a melody, you know. And so, yeah, that is the paradox.
- [18:30]
B
Are we a collection of atoms and all this? There are some. There's some pursuits in life where we actually arbitrarily. But we answer that question. So when does a child become an adult? On what day? And that's the day often or, you know, depending on one for drinking or depending on the age of consent. In Kentucky, you know, 12. I had Ariel Elias in here and she would like that joke. We have joke lag. But what I think what you are doing, and even if you're not, you were doing it subconsciously. I think you were sorties, paradox, paradoxing of the heap in a way, to comment on the fact that you've. You've become monogamous. And when does a polyamorous relationship or a polyamorous person become monogamous? And it's not at one point. It's not when that third person or eighth person fails to show up. It's a. You know, what the paradox of the heap really gets to is that life isn't defined clearly in binaries or there aren't black and white truths. And so it really gets at the nature of this middle ground. And I think your special is very much getting at the nature of non binaries, not literally non binary in terms of sexuality, but not binaries and not living life with binaries.
- [19:48]
A
Absolutely. I think that I have thought about that. Perhaps not as explicitly defined as you just made it, but absolutely. Like this. This special is about, you know, how many. Like, when does a relationship become a marriage? In some states, at seven years. Yes, like the same. That is when you have a heap of relationship. And so, yeah, the show does sort of. I think it's, you know, more thematically connected even in sort of these ethereal philosophical ideas to the, you know, the real life, you know, relationship, personal situations that are going on in my life. There's. There's two things I want to say. One is about the Guinness Book of World Records. I'll come back to that. The other is the question of when does something become something else? Really, there's a few different things. Okay. I'm going to talk about when the letter P turns into the letter B in a moment. And also. And that'll also have to do with a rainbow color spectrum. But also, I think that you're providing.
- [20:54]
B
The guide for this. Maybe on the side we'll have this, or maybe I encourage everyone at home to just take notes and they know Guinness Book is coming up. Yeah, that's the tease. We're gonna tease that over the break, but go ahead.
- [21:05]
A
And also, not even super connected on purpose to the Guinness Book of World Records, named for the same Guinness as Guinness beer. I do not drink alcohol anymore. I mentioned before the show we discussed we're recording this at night. And so Michelle generously suggested, oh, nighttime is beer time. So would anyone like a beer?
- [21:25]
B
She's pushing it on me like that.
- [21:26]
A
Yeah, I haven't drunk beer, and at least I haven't drunk alcohol, like, on purpose, with awareness in at least six or seven years.
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B
That's your record.
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A
And that has.
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B
That is your Guinness record.
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A
Real quick thing, I forget the name of this kid, but a kid at my summer camp that I taught stand up comedy workshops at for many years and still do. I think one of his parents worked at snl, so he was, like, around comedy and he had a joke. I wish I remember his name. But he was 10 years old and his opening line on stage was, so I've been sober for 10 years. And so truly, truly, my earlier record was about. I think I had my first sip of alcohol at like 13 or 14, what have you. But that question is. So I feel like the point that you make is really interesting when it comes to, like, when does a, you know, an alcoholic become sober? Like, and let's say they stop drinking and they're like, okay, it's today, but what time. Okay, is it right when they took their last drink, or is it when they made the decision to do it? Or is it after a certain amount of time that it, like, you know, kicked into gear? Yeah, or. And the same thing for starting comedy. So many comedians, when you ask them, like, how long have you been doing comedy? Like, I'll say that I started in 2002, which is when I really started pursuing it and going out to open mic.
- [22:38]
B
I went on a stage and there was a mic.
- [22:40]
A
I mean, but I did also get on a stage and there was a mic at a comedy club in 1999, but I was pursuing songwriting at the time, so I was going on with funny songs, but I wasn't. I wouldn't have called myself a comedian until later when I looked back and I was like, oh. In between those songs, I said things and people laughed. I was like, that was my first comedic performance. But so many people don't count that. And that also has a parallel to this special, which at one point we were titling before we get started, but then Ryan Reiss produced a documentary that he was working on the whole time, and I'd forgotten that I'd had him on my podcast. And I went back and listened. I'm like, oh, yes. I announced, yes. Everyone check out Ryan Reese's documentary. It's wonderful about warm up comedy called Before We Get Started. But our show was. We were going to call it that before we decided on Renee because we've been together now almost nine and a half years.
- [23:31]
B
You and Ryan Reese?
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A
No, you and Renee? Almost. I was like, no, it's not pronounced Ryany. Yeah, Renee. Ryan Reaney. Renee and I, we are not married at this point, but we do plan to be together forever. As you know, we're gonna stay alive forever. That's our plan.
- [23:46]
B
Unless, unlike John in the green car where we found his body. But go ahead. Yes, yes.
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A
And so we get questions a lot from people who don't entirely understand that we know what we're doing. We're there, we're together. The piece of paper isn't the most important. One of the reasons we're not getting married is because she has better healthcare through the not job that she has right now than she would if we got together and then she had to pay for more catastrophic, worse healthcare. And anyway, the point is your dowry.
- [24:16]
B
Is to damn her healthcare. Yes.
- [24:20]
A
When people are like, when are you gonna get married? Like, as if that is the true starting point of a life together. And that all of these nine and a half years are just before we get started. So this is all that. Now the baby, I gotta answer.
- [24:36]
B
Okay, please. We got Rainbow baby, Guinness Book. But when people ask you, when are you gonna get married? Are you tempted to answer like, when did you start doing comedy? Well, I've started getting married. Eight years ago.
- [24:48]
A
That's a great answer. I'm going to start saying that now.
- [24:51]
B
Oh, y.
- [24:52]
A
We absolutely started getting married in 2016.
- [24:55]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [24:56]
A
Like, it's sort of a. I did a show the other day, and I forget what led to this, but. Do you know the song Sheep Go to Heaven, Goats Go to Hell by the band Cake?
- [25:05]
B
Oh, no. If it's a cover of an existing song from the 70s with a vibra slap, I'd know it because I think this one's oeuvre.
- [25:12]
A
Yes. This one. Yeah. It's not I Will Survive, but they do a wonderful job, this one. The. The lyrics that are meaningful are, as soon as you're born, you start dying, so you might as well have a good time. Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell. And so I think, oh, yeah. I was on a show. This is what had happened. I'm glad another comedian had talked to the audience and had something about Jesus and his. Like, what happened on either. Like, we all know what happened for Jesus on Christmas. And somebody in the audience says, yes, he died. And so they got it wrong that they said, you know, technically, he didn't die on Christmas, but I was.
- [25:48]
B
He wasn't even born on Christmas, you.
- [25:50]
A
Know, but at least in, you know, the common error that people believe he was born on Christmas.
- [25:56]
B
Or error.
- [25:57]
A
I said error. But, yes, I meant to evoke both. Yeah, nice. I did not make an error with that one.
- [26:03]
B
That's pretty good.
- [26:04]
A
And thank you very much. So if he was born on Christmas, in the spirit of Cakes, Sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell, he did start dying on Christmas the same way that Rini and I started being together in. And started our life together. Started getting married. We're getting there. Started getting there to marriage in 2016. So, as you may know, I studied linguistics in college and grad school, and one of the things that we learned was that one of the ways that you can tell when a baby. The way that they sort of assess what a baby knows is by if it is bored and not paying attention or if it perks up and looks. So if it perks up, they're like, oh, something is new. Yeah. And so, like, for example, any adult human being, certainly if we're looking at, like, a color spectrum, you're like, there's red, there's orange, there's yellow. It's absolutely. Like, when does it turn from red to orange to yellow? Like, perhaps it's different for anyone.
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B
That's another paradox of the heap.
- [27:05]
A
Yeah, that. Exactly. But with audio A weird thing is you can take a P sound, a P sound and a B sound and make a spectrum from P to make it more and more bee, like until it gets to B, from the P to the B that we know. But our brains can. When you're listening to it, when a baby is listening to it and when an adult is listening to it, you will not hear it changing. You will just hear P, P, P, P, P. And then at some point, B.
- [27:33]
B
Yes.
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A
Just another example of like at 18, you're an adult at this. That happens.
- [27:38]
B
I think that's what happened with the pronunciation or the herd pronunciation of Pakistan. Because when you ever hear a Pakistani, they say Pakistan, more likely.
- [27:46]
A
Oh yeah.
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B
So I think Pakistan is going to become Pakistan, but I don't know how. I don't know who does it. I know that Mumbai and Bombay. Right. So that's not a P to a B. I know that one way to change geographic names is the president comes in and says Gulf of Mexico. But I don't think that's going to happen with Pakistan. But it probably will evolve.
- [28:03]
A
And I mean, even within our country. Like I grew up calling it Oregon. And then, you know, go there and they say Oregon.
- [28:10]
B
You think it really. Like people who have live in states that pronounce their own, own states the wrong way are really, really proud of it. They'll let you know about Nevada. You say Nevada wrong. And you know, another thing that I find out is that there are all these cities in the United States named after the original city. And with the exception of Paris, Texas, they get them all wrong. Or someone gets them wrong. Like it's Lima, Ohio, instead of Lima. No, it's Lima, Lima, Ohio instead of Lima, Ohio.
- [28:35]
A
I mean, it's not like they're going Paris, Texas.
- [28:38]
B
They should.
- [28:38]
A
That would.
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B
But that fits in with the normal Texas accent.
- [28:41]
A
But that's. It's such an interesting thing because of course, like, you know, Germany, we call Germany, they call Deutschland, you know, and in French it's like Almagne, you know, and so like, there is ultimately there is no underlying like true name reality. Like, I don't know if you've read any Ursula K. Le Guin the Wizard of Earthsea series wherein like, it's like.
- [29:00]
B
This great black futurist. Yeah.
- [29:03]
A
And this one is like, you know, the sort of the original, like Wizard School Island. And one of the ways that wizards gain power is they learn the quote, true names of things. And when you know a person's true name, you can have power over them. When you know like the true name of, like, every water molecule, then you can control the ocean or the weather or this. And in reality, like, we certainly. If there are, quote, true names of anything, we don't. All the names are constructs, humanly constructed. Every. Every word that we're saying, like, originally didn't exist. And then at some point somebody's like, ah, move my mouth like this. And then we understand it to mean this, you know. And there was a great comedian, a writer as well, I think. Oh, man, what was his name? Julian something. Julius Sharp. Julius Sharp. I think he wrote for Family Guy and some other things. He had a joke, I think it was his joke where he comes on stage and he says something like, now I don't speak English. I just memorize these sounds. And at a certain point, like, I want. I don't know what I'm saying, you know, and like a fun bit, but that. A fun bit that's like. Like kind of like uncannily valley, like, near to reality. Like, certainly for languages that we don't know, they sound. We don't understand them.
- [30:14]
B
Right.
- [30:14]
A
For languages that we do know, it's. It's magic.
- [30:17]
B
Yes. Although there are the onomatopoeiatic words which are at least dictated by the actual sound. Your Russells, your whistles. And I've often wondered if, and maybe you have an answer because you did study linguistics, if the bodily functions, especially one syllable bodily functions, I think they almost are all, or at least have elements of onomat. Your wretch, your ralph, your puke. I think your piss, maybe your fart, when they get into the nice way of describing it. Your vomit. Certainly not.
- [30:46]
A
A lot of the things associated with the nose or schnoz are like sneeze and snooze and sniff, you know?
- [30:51]
B
So there's some kind of snot.
- [30:53]
A
Yes.
- [30:54]
B
Okay. Rainbows.
- [30:55]
A
Okay. So that was the color to the spectrum. Rainbows taken care of.
- [31:00]
B
Okay. And in a moment, we will talk about the Guinness Book of World World record. Stay tuned for more. Mike Kaplan. I'm going to quote the National Institutes of Health. I defer to the experts. As many as 30 million men in the US have experienced ED. It's more common than a bad night's sleep. I don't know that the National Institutes of Health has all the statistics on a bad night's sleep, but I'll also say that ED probably correlates to a bad night's sleep. We have good news about all of this, and it's not about NIH funding. It's About HIMSS Himss makes getting access to treatment for E.D. simple. So you can feel like yourself again without stress, without awkwardness. Confidence is really important and through himss you could skip the guesswork and get access to care that actually fits your lifestyle. Going to say again, stress free, straightforward, designed around you. Through hims you can access personalized prescription treatments for ED like Hard Mints and Sex Rx plus Climax Control if prescribed. It's not one size fits all. They have options ranging from trusted generics that cost 95% less than brand names to to the aforementioned Hard Mints. Think of HIMS as the digital front door that gets you back to your old self. 100% online access to trusted treatments for ED and more. All in one place. To get simple online access to personalized affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss and more, visit hims.com the Gist that's hims.com the gist for your free online visit, visit hims.com the gist Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan. Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription requires the website for details, restrictions and important safety information.
- [33:06]
A
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- [33:42]
B
We're back with Mike Kaplan on Funny youy should mention we're now talking about the Guinness Book of World Records as per the tease.
- [33:49]
A
Yes. So somewhere 10ish years ago, give or take a couple years, I was in Nashville, Tennessee as part I did this, I think two years in a row they had the world Guinness record for longest comedy show not one person longest continuous comedy show. I believe it lasted for like a week.
- [34:09]
B
Yeah. And Rehab's trying to do that this year, right?
- [34:12]
A
That sounds right.
- [34:12]
B
No, that's like they, they bought all the comedians over there. And I know you proudly say you're not going. I mean you have good human rights records.
- [34:20]
A
I, I do my best with human rights. Thank you. And so the, the long the way. Here's the interesting thing because for the most part like what's a comedy show? You know, you got, you got comedians, you got an audience. But also some comedy shows have like a musical break or like, could have a different, you know, an intermission. This. For it to be a Guinness World record breaking comedy show. There were like some of the rules that I remember specifically it were like, there always had to be at least 12 people in the audience.
- [34:49]
B
Okay.
- [34:49]
A
If there was under 12 people, it no longer qualified.
- [34:52]
B
You started. That would be bad news for you when you were starting out. Or most comedians. Yeah, absolutely. Encounter shows, nothing.
- [34:59]
A
I've done wonderful shows for one person, two people, any. Every single digit number of people. Here's a fun joke that I rarely do, but I did it. And it won't work now because of the setup, but imagine. Everybody stop listening to whatever I just said. Do something else. Okay, we're back. Look, I can do it too. And do you know, remember the movie Twins from the late 80s, am I right? Late 80s. That's a fun bonus. The movie Twins. Sometimes I'll ask an audience, you know, who here has seen the movie Twins? Who here has not seen the movie Twins? Usually a mix of people who have and have not. I'll tell you one audience I had earlier this year, In February of 2025, I performed at a venue. Every single member of the audience had seen the movie Twins and all it took was getting the right six people together, you know, so the point is, that's why Twins?
- [35:46]
B
With that joke. Why Twins?
- [35:47]
A
Oh, because there's more. There's more to the joke. Yeah.
- [35:49]
B
Okay.
- [35:50]
A
I mean, the ultimate joke, it would.
- [35:51]
B
Be awesome if you tried it with like seven different Schwarzenegger movies. And like Twins was the one that.
- [35:56]
A
Oh, yeah. Well, I'll tell you briefly the joke. The reason that it's twins is because Renee. It's actually related to Renee and my love for Renee. So very. Actually glad that you asked this question. There's no way you could have done all the research to know this. You are a very good journalist. So maybe you dug deep. So as you may know, and for any listeners who are younger and don't know the movie Twins, you don't have to watch it. But the basic idea is that Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito are identical twins, right?
- [36:25]
B
And if you don't know that Danny DeVito is a very small person and Arnold Schwarzenegger's very large person and at the time with very clearly defined muscles. Now he's a little more blob.
- [36:34]
A
Like officially at the time, he was like the most in shape man in the world.
- [36:38]
B
And by implication, DeVita was maybe the last. But we didn't say that because it would hurt his feelings.
- [36:43]
A
That was the idea. And theoretically I feel like if, you know, if I could be like the spirit of either of those, you know, like Arnold Schwarzenegger is actually saying some really interesting, meaningful things these days as well. But Danny DeVito, like, across like unassailable record of humanity. I can assail Schwarzenegger's a little bit, but he's like slightly assailable.
- [37:02]
B
But sure, I saw Pumping Iron, he was mean to Lou Frig now and also a couple initiatives as governor, but go ahead.
- [37:09]
A
So the, the idea is that they're identical. Why do they look different? Like all the good stuff of the genetic material went into Arnold, all the bad stuff went into DeVito's character. And the analogy in the joke is that Rini is perfect. Rini is the Arnold Schwarzenegger spiritually of reality of our universe. And that is why there is suffering everywhere else in the universe, because all the goodness went into her. And we're like, really sorry, everybody.
- [37:40]
B
It's interesting. If there was a religion where there was one perfect God, I guess Jesus supposed to be perfect. And what if as a rational reaction, the idea is we had to kill the perfect God because we to. Had to redistribute the perfection. How dare that, that one person take the perfection, rob us of all the goodness. Interesting.
- [37:59]
A
I think, I mean, there's a lot of fun.
- [38:00]
B
I think wouldn't it be cool if in that religion Jesus were not crucified but killed via pinata and then it could all be distributed.
- [38:08]
A
Pinata, Jesus. I. I think we've got something here. We have.
- [38:12]
B
That's a cake lyric if you want.
- [38:13]
A
To right after this. Yes. So one of the other rules for the show, for the Guinness World record breaking show was that there had to always be, you know, a comedian on stage. Like, you couldn't have.
- [38:25]
B
That seems fair.
- [38:25]
A
You couldn't have a band for 12 arbitrary.
- [38:28]
B
But zero comedians on stage during a comedy show. I'm with that.
- [38:31]
A
And so here's the thing is I don't know how granular they got about. Like, obviously, like there was. It was not one comedian for eight days in a row, 3:00am, 7:00am you know, comedians could come and go and be allowed to sleep, but there was different hosts. And so in between, the host would be like, all right, I'm bringing up your next comedian. And there was definitely some time where you could, how slowly could you walk to the stage and have it still be count as a comedian on stage doing comedy? And as part of my set, I sort of questioned also, like, how long can A setup be. How long can you go in between punchlines? Because there are some like, you know, shaggy dog stories that like, have a really great. And so I. And like, what about riffing? Like, I mean, I'm doing stand up. Like right now I'm kind of then and now. Now I'm improvising about how I improvised then to get to a point where at some point am I riffing too much for Guinness? You know, and at that point when I say, am I riffing too much for Guinness? Like, that look, arguably is a punchline, you know, riffing too much for Guinness, everyone. And so, like, I'll just keep saying that. Everyone. So that's my get er done for the thing. Riffing too much for Guinness, you know, and so, so. But the question. It's such an interesting thing that I feel like this sort of touches on genre of like, okay, at the Golden Globes, like, what's a drama? What's a comedy? Sure.
- [39:50]
B
This is Lil Nas X his entire career. Was he country? Was he hip hop? Yeah.
- [39:55]
A
And the thing is about genre is usually there to help us to be like, oh, do I want to see a horror movie or do I not want to see a horror movie? But for comedy, like, comedy can infuse everything. And here's my hot take, Mike. I claim that Barry and Breaking Bad are identical. Whatever genre one is, the other one is because they're both so funny, so powerfully funny. But more than funny and dramatic, like, they're such good. It's such high art that to even. But we're like, oh, but Barry, it's half hour. So that's a comedy. And Breaking Bad, that's hours. So that's a drama. But they're like the same amount of pathos, the same amount of laughter. And not always laughter. Like really horrible things happen. And then we're laughing in the next minute. And then, you know, your. Your Tim Robinsons and Nathan Fielders now sort of creating new flavors of like comedy art, tone. Like, what genre even is it? And so the question when Guinness is like, okay, but. But it's a comedy show, right? It's. So there's gotta be comedians. Well, we know what comedy is when we see it. It's like porn in the 60s.
- [41:02]
B
Yeah. Because we have a good malt beverage. We are the arbiters of comedy, you know, with genre. Music is like that too. And I've read a of lot, lot about how music is. There are no genres. And I don't even mean this in the ethereal sense. And you know, a great musician in one quote, unquote genre will be influenced by others, and you could see it there. But they are inventions of music marketing. And the idea that since music goes back throughout all of culture, the idea that there would be different genres of music up until someone started selling music a couple hundred years ago would be very confusing to most people. Right?
- [41:36]
A
Yeah. I had a friend in college who. I wish I remember what culture this was about, but he studied, like, an anthropology class. He told me about a culture that did not have, like, the word music. It did not have a. Like, it didn't even have the concept of music, because their entire society was infused with music. It was like they were fish in water. They didn't know what water was because they were swimming in music. The same way that in our society, like, with a classic, you know, go into a courtroom and they're like, oh, yay.
- [42:06]
B
Oh, yay, oh, yay.
- [42:07]
A
You know, like, the court is now in session. Like, that's rhythmic and melodic, and we. It's like, you know, a mantra of a kind. Their whole society was just like, you got one of those for the grocery store, you got one of those for the bank, you know, and that's. That's just how society works.
- [42:22]
B
And with our culture, what do you think the water is? Because people will say, just like a fish doesn't know it's in water, so too, is.
- [42:29]
A
Is.
- [42:29]
B
I don't know, white supremacy. But then they name it, and you can't name water to a fish. Like, you can't grab the fish and say, water. This is water. So once you name it, you. It's the thing that you were talking about. You give the secret name to something, and the secret is gone.
- [42:45]
A
I think it's enlightenment. I think that there's many, many words for it. Like, have you heard of Raymond Smullian?
- [42:51]
B
No.
- [42:52]
A
Raymond Smullian.
- [42:53]
B
Does he have six different names on.
- [42:54]
A
His Wikipedia page, but he's got six different genres. He was a philosopher. He was a logician, a magician, a mathematician, a student and teacher of Eastern philosophy.
- [43:06]
B
A logician is someone who installs a LoJack or is, like, does really bad magic.
- [43:12]
A
Very low. Jackal. Yes.
- [43:14]
B
It's the night of the LoJackal, but go ahead.
- [43:16]
A
And he was like a cultural figure. He would go on Carson's Tonight show and, like, talk about philosophy and do magic tricks. And I first came across one of his books called there's just a Used Book Section of a Barnes and Noble in New Jersey.
- [43:32]
B
What's his name again?
- [43:33]
A
Raymond Smullian.
- [43:34]
B
I'm pretty sure I have heard of him actually. But go ahead, get it.
- [43:37]
A
Yeah, here's some of his books. The Dao is Silent Alice in Puzzle Land. The first book I read of his, I just caught my eye. 24 years old it was. This book needs no title. And he has another book called. What is the name of this book? Yes, I know them both discusses like logic puzzles and tr. And in this book needs no title there was.
- [43:56]
B
What was the name of that book?
- [43:58]
A
Great question.
- [43:58]
B
It was Alison Puzzle.
- [43:59]
A
Yes, there was a story in it that. You can Google the story, it's available online. The story's called Planet Without Laughter, I believe. And there's an. It's an analogy. And when I was like 24 years old, this is like pre. Any psychedelics. And so I understood that an analogy was being presented. And the analogy was basically like, imagine a world where laughter. People have heard of it, but no one really knows how to do it anymore. But there's these like laugh masters, like akin to Zen masters, like that. It's like that laughter is a parallel to enlightenment or like some sort of mystic wisdom or spiritual awareness. That is the thing that I would say is present like that, you know, Buddha, the term Buddha means awake. And people say Buddhas will say everyone has Buddha nature. Everyone is just not currently awake to the fact that they are awake. And every once in a while maybe you have a moment where oh, there it is. And then you're oh, now try to get it back up. It's gone. But in this story, only I can.
- [44:58]
B
Remember the guys who recorded Woomp. There it is. Because they had that moment.
- [45:02]
A
Tag team.
- [45:02]
B
Tag team. There it is. It's in the bricks.
- [45:04]
A
Yeah, good. Tag teaming. And so, yeah, back again. I remember them every once in a while.
- [45:12]
B
Shakalaka, shakalaka shaka.
- [45:14]
A
Boom.
- [45:14]
B
And when they write those lyrics like no, no, no, oom shaka maka shakalaka. And there was a big debate and then the tag team breaks up and one goes with Hawk and one goes with Animal.
- [45:22]
A
But anyway, they nailed it. I. I came up a joke I wrote long ago is I would love to see a whomp there. It was a retrospective.
- [45:31]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's a little like, can I get a what, what? Yeah, which you reference in the special.
- [45:35]
A
I surely do.
- [45:36]
B
Turns out that it's in and you can get a what, what? In fact, Amazon has them for like half off on prime day.
- [45:42]
A
Yeah, they've got things that you've never even heard of until you heard of them.
- [45:46]
B
They Have a whole section of questions. You could get a who's. Now you could get a.
- [45:51]
A
So in the story Planet Without Laughter, these Laugh Masters, like, akin to Zen masters, sort of like, you know, maybe wander the land or are available on a mountaintop for people to come and be like, help. What is laughter? And the thing. And they don't tell you how to laugh because that's not how you get someone to laugh. They would be on stage and they would, like, do a backflip or say a non sequitur. And then sometimes a person in the audience in the story would be like, oh, I understand laughter.
- [46:15]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [46:16]
A
But anyone who knows what real laughter is could then spot if somebody's like, oh, right, laughter. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I get it. Ha, ha, ha, ha. And so when I first read in.
- [46:25]
B
The book, they would genuinely be laughing. I mean, they wouldn't be just expressing through their voice, soundly.
- [46:33]
A
People who got it would really laugh. The people who didn't get it, which was more people in the story, were trying to do the physical thing. They were like, what? And that might be akin to, like, people trying to get closer to Nirvana or Satori or, like, heaven or a Christ, like experience or Buddha nature.
- [46:53]
B
What is that state in meditating that you're not supposed to try to achieve? It's like something with a J, Janet. You know, it's not supposed to strive for it, but if you get it, it's great.
- [47:04]
A
I'm not gonna strive to remember what it is. There's one of those.
- [47:07]
B
The laughmaster General, who you reference, and then you also reference the. There's no Board of Governors that defines comedy. Let's suppose there were. Would it be like the panel on laughter Comic standing? Who would be the Good Comedy certification unit?
- [47:24]
A
I have an answer to this. An answer to a question that is adjacent to this.
- [47:29]
B
Okay.
- [47:29]
A
And I know I hope isn't the word so adjacent. Zinnamon. That's like, next to the New York Times comedy writer. So I went, here's a. I have been doing comedy since arguably 2002, possibly 1999. I have been, you know, living and breathing. Like, I listen to so many comedy albums and watch so many specials and read books about it.
- [47:54]
B
And I just to cross off ideas that you can no longer claim there's.
- [47:58]
A
So I stopped reading.
- [47:59]
B
So attuned to never ever ripping someone off, never plagiarizing, that you have to imbibe the whole world.
- [48:06]
A
That is one way to do it. I really did for a while stop reading the Onion regularly. Because I'm like, they did all the jokes. They have all the jokes. I got to not do. I can't do any of these jokes, so I got to do my own jokes. But I think there are people like me, like, you know, who care about comedy, like, perhaps even more, you know, there's people who care deeply about it. Like, Dave Attell is a guy who I hear, like, when he comes up with an idea, he runs it by, like, you know, a bunch of his friends to be like, have you heard anything like this? And that's why he does. His jokes are not like anyone's jokes. He is a singular being. For that reason, I think there are many, like Maria Bamford, a singular being.
- [48:42]
B
Okay, so that idea of who he runs it by, that could be the comedy board.
- [48:45]
A
You're saying, I'm almost there. And. Okay, another thing from earlier that'll tie into this as well. Like the question of genre in music we talked about. I think there are obviously uses for it to be like, oh, jazz, like, you know, weird jazz fusion, like big band jazz, et cetera.
- [49:02]
B
But, like, jazz has 300 sub genres of which they each have one practitioner and one fan.
- [49:08]
A
Oh, yeah. Ultimately there is. There's as many genres of art as there are artists. But also, you could be like, you know, okay, I understand why people, when they hear about Steven Wright and Mitch Hedberg and Dimitri Martin and Emo Phillips and Wendy Lieben, they're like, well, at least their jokes are like, the same length. You know, these are genre by length.
- [49:28]
B
You know, that's fine.
- [49:30]
A
Like, ultimately, in comedy, I mean, you know, comedy is unlike so many other. This point has been made by many that, like, you can go to a comedy club not knowing who you're going to see, but you would never go to movie house and be like, just whatever movie is playing, give me, like, you know, you at least want a genre. You want to. If not usually a specific movie, Right? But for comedy, people are like, so. Oh, so I always wonder, you know.
- [49:54]
B
People don't roll with it. Well, sorry to interrupt, but it's the only way I get it worded. People don't roll with it well when they're confused about genre of a movie. Remember the movie Vanilla sky, which was a remake of a good Spanish movie, but I. It was very poorly received. I think it's an excellent Cameron Crowe movie, but the reason that it's poorly received, I think, is that people were. Had their expectations upended over the genre of the movie.
- [50:17]
A
Quick funny story about that, about a different thing. The Stephen Sondheim created musical Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.
- [50:25]
B
Yes.
- [50:25]
A
A comedy.
- [50:26]
B
Yes.
- [50:26]
A
When it first was released.
- [50:28]
B
Yeah.
- [50:29]
A
Bombed. People did not understand that it was a comedy. He got a note. I don't know whose idea it was, but they were like, you gotta tell him. And that's why they made. He wrote the first Comedy Tonight.
- [50:43]
B
It's Comedy Tonight. Yup.
- [50:45]
A
And then once he told them that it was comedy, then, like, perhaps it was like me on that late night show being like, I'm a comedian. Oh, okay. Finally we can relax and understand what the genre is. And so this is an awesome opera.
- [50:59]
B
In front of every opera.
- [51:01]
A
Nailed it. And so I think in comedy, like, you know, you want to. If you're a comedy, if you're listening to this show, you probably have, like some savvy and some knowledge about what comedians you like and who you're gonna go see or where you're acceptable to.
- [51:14]
B
Compliments.
- [51:15]
A
Yes. You're wonderful. You're beautiful. Yeah. You're fragrant wise. Yeah. Oh, you smell the best.
- [51:21]
B
Like, when Mike made all those references to linguists, he was like, yes, of course we know.
- [51:25]
A
And so I think about, like, somebody like Reggie Watts. Like, what. What is he. What even? What art form is he doing? Is it. It is. It's comedic, it is musical, it is art.
- [51:35]
B
It's Bobby McPheron in there.
- [51:37]
A
Yeah. It's. I would say, you know, if you had to say, which you don't. Performance art. He's Reggie Watts. Like, there's my favorite, favorite line from Lenny Bruce. The only one I can remember always is, I'm not a comedian. I'm Lenny Bruce. And that's like the ultimate goal for, I think, think many artists.
- [51:52]
B
Calvin Coolidge said that also, though.
- [51:54]
A
Yeah. He said, I'm Lenny Bruce.
- [51:56]
B
Yeah.
- [51:57]
A
That changed. Well, his life.
- [51:58]
B
Lived it. Remember, you go, when you asked, how long can you live between punchlines? Calvin Coolidge answered that question with, he only said one joke ever. So we don't know. It's still ongoing.
- [52:06]
A
I love it. And so the question of who the governing board of comedy arbiters is, is here's if anyone. If I ever wanted to go see jazz, I would be. I might look it up. You know, look up, like, where are jazz places in New York? But I think the best way to find out, who do I know in my life who loves jazz? Who do I know in my life who does jazz? And then if I can, like, sort of crowdsource like a bunch of people, like, who do you think the best jazz artists are. And then. Then go and look at interviews with them and say, who do you think? Who do the people who think they're the. That the best jazzers are? Who do they think the best jazz artists are? Eventually you'll get, I think, like, you know, in comedy, if you do that, you'll find you'll get a lot of people. Like Stephen Colbert says it's Maria Bamford. I say it's Maria Bamford. Many people say it's Maria Bamford. Many people say it's Dava. Tell many people. You know, you'll have a few list of names that get. As you keep, you know, doing iterations, it's sort of like ranked voting.
- [53:03]
B
You'll never actually get to the jazz show if you do that much research. The band has left town.
- [53:08]
A
We're not trying to get to the jazz show. We're trying to philosophically determine who those people are. So for right now, we've determined. For me, it's Dave Attell, Maria Bamford and Reggie Watts. Those are.
- [53:19]
B
That's awesome.
- [53:20]
A
Yeah, those are three people.
- [53:21]
B
I love those three. And they represent a whole bunch of different forms of comedy. And a lot of them, each of them has a little bit of a psychedelic element in that, you know, jokes are benign violations. You're not supposed to know where they come from, but they really don't know where they're coming from with all of them. That's interesting. I wanted to ask you about the et al. Thing.
- [53:38]
A
Yes.
- [53:39]
B
I would think the harder thing, even for a brilliant and askew mind like Attel, is not to know if anyone's done it before, but to know if this slightly weird observation is funny. Like, from what I understand with Steven Wright, is, is he would have many, many askew observations and he would think they might all be funny, but he has to present them to an audience and see if they laugh. He's not true with a tell.
- [54:03]
A
Great question. I know for Steven Wright, he specifically has said if he tries something three times and it doesn't work, then he'll stop doing it. Not because he doesn't think it's funny, but because just he understands that the audience doesn't agree with him. And funny is another thing. What is funny? Funny is also relative. Like if you're the only. As long as anyone thinks it's funny, including you, then it's funny to you. If you're the only one who thinks it's funny, it's funny to you. And then, you know, obviously, the. The role, the task, the job to do the job of comedian is to hopefully find an overlap of people agreeing with you that those things are funny. But for Attell, I mean, I don't think that that's the only thing Attell does. I think Attell is also, of course, like, he must only be thinking about. I don't know if he does this for every joke as well. Like, I've only heard this as sort of like a snippet of an anecdote, because here. Have you. Have we ever talked about Verlain Klinkenborg?
- [55:00]
B
I know Verlain Klingenborg.
- [55:01]
A
Do you?
- [55:01]
B
Yeah.
- [55:02]
A
Do you know his book, Several Short Sentences about Writing?
- [55:04]
B
No.
- [55:05]
A
I read that book, and I love it, and I recommend it for any writer of any kind of, you know, any creator, any artist.
- [55:11]
B
It's funny that a guy named Verling Klinkenborg would be known for being terse.
- [55:15]
A
It's incredible. Yeah. I mean, I think. I think it's like one of those things. He's like Batman as a child. A bad thing happened to him, and he's like, I'm not gonna let this happen to anyone. Moving forward.
- [55:26]
B
Not gonna clink. And Borg, you. Yes.
- [55:28]
A
Yeah. Everybody you can. Short sentences. Here we go.
- [55:30]
B
You would think u thant would write that book about being terse, but go ahead.
- [55:34]
A
And so one concept in that book that has stuck with me is the idea of volunteer sentences. He says, like, if you're right, let's say you're writing a book, and if a sentence comes to you easily, like, it could be that it's being channeled through you from the universal source from which all great art comes, or it could be something that you heard and forgot about. And so he's like, if a sentence comes too easily, maybe double check that it is your original idea and not somebody else's. I think that may be what Attell is doing. If an idea comes to him and he's like, is this me? Or is it possible that I picked this up somewhere? Or just, you know, I think it's. He's like, I think this is good, but I just want to make sure that somebody else didn't get to it first. I think anything that he's asking somebody about, he thinks is funny, he knows is funny and good to him. And then when he's, you know, assured enough that it's as original as it can be, he brings it to audiences and hones and shapes it.
- [56:32]
B
Now, I will say, whenever a defendant takes a plea deal, it's something of a volunteer sentence, a little coerced but something. I have several important questions to get to you in the limited time we have.
- [56:41]
A
Yes.
- [56:42]
B
Which here on this earth. One is if I just thought of this mike, and you're a philosopher. So if comedy didn't evoke an involuntary response, which also released endorphins. So like your sci fi story, there was something and it was appreciated like almost every other art form. Like art hits you, art on the wall, like music hits you. Without that involuntary plus endorphins, I think something like comedy would exist. And I have an idea in my head. And what would comedy be like?
- [57:15]
A
Oh, that's an interesting question and a good question. And to me, a good question is one that I don't know the answer to immediately. So I'm just put it out there for the audience.
- [57:24]
B
Here's what I was thinking, please. I think it would be the difference between art, about art depicting beauty or beautiful people, and pornography, which is not to insult comedy. But, you know, some pornography could be argued as art, but there is that involuntary reaction. And that involuntary reaction signals some chemicals. You know, I don't know that pornography has the intellectual component to it, but maybe comedy would be more intellectual or maybe it would be more like the comedy that comedians like, which is they don't laugh, Right? They go, that's very good. It's more heady and it's more transgressive also.
- [58:02]
A
Yeah, I think I definitely agree with that. I mean, I think that's all very fascinating. And that last part really resonates with me that, like, when I started doing comedy and I was just. Even before I was a comedian, when I was still a musician, occasionally performing at this comedy club. I remember one time I went to watch a show there and I was getting ready to pay the guy at the door, who was just another comedian working the door. And he was like, you've performed here, haven't you? I'm, like, about to hand him money. I'm like, yeah, I performed here like twice. And he's like, well, then you're a comedian. You can go in.
- [58:31]
B
That's awesome.
- [58:32]
A
And I was like, without paying money? He's like, yeah, comedians can just come in and watch the show for free. I'm like, I'm a comedian. And so I feel like at that point I was still. I felt much more like a comedy fan. I would. I did not believe. I did not identify as a comedian. I did not believe I was a comedian. I was not even trying to be a comedian. But he was like, you did comedy. You performed at A comedy club. So you were a comedian enough that I don't need you. I don't need your 10 bucks. And I.
- [58:59]
B
He had, he had similar definitions or a similar commitment to definitions as did the Guinness people.
- [59:05]
A
Absolutely.
- [59:06]
B
Yeah.
- [59:06]
A
He had, he had some metrics.
- [59:08]
B
Yes, yes.
- [59:08]
A
And I, but at that point, like, I laughed. I actually, I have a new definition that I just, just stumbled upon and it's, it's going to be heat paradox related as well. But at that time, you know, between 1999 and 2002, before I officially decided to start, like going to open mics all the time and really committing to doing comedy, I. I laughed so much. I laughed so much at these shows. Like there was this guy DJ Hazard who I saw college and then all around at the comedy studio all around New England. Anytime I would like go see him. I was like a fan, like became friends with him when I started doing comedy. But like, I was like, he just made me laugh. He was the first person in person to make me laugh so hard that. To understood what comedy was. And I was just like, like dying, crying, just alone, like in a room. Nobody else had to be there. I was just like so enraptured. And eventually, you know, over the course of time you do comedy, it's like growing up, like my summer camp days as a teenager, it was this magical wonderland. And then I would become a counselor there. And it's still a magical wonderland, but I'm like, you know, one of the wonderland teachers now. And so like I'm, I'm like, I'm sober. You know, you're all, you're all having, you know, the ayahuasca, like experience. And I'm like, I got it a little bit. You're the guide. I got it enough. But eventually, like, you know, the beautiful thing about comedy is that still I can. There are people and things that make me laugh so much, but not on the regular basis. That like not every comedy show, every comedian, every moment, like the first comedy show that I ever saw or the first year or two. So I think when, when do you. When does the heap switch from not a comedian to yes, a comedian is when you go from laughing all the time to saying that's funny from the back of the room much more frequently and 100 meaning it. I think com. I mean I think that comedy also, it basically is music. You know, like the, these are every tone. We could be auto tuned and like every. Everything that we're saying, like a podcast is music. Any sound can be music. So comedy and I come from, you know, parents who are music teachers and started playing music when I was 4. And so I feel like there is. I mean, there's a musicality to everyone's comedy as long as they're making sounds.
- [61:23]
B
Yes.
- [61:24]
A
And so the question is, like, what? What even. We're not even genres within art forms, but art forms themselves. Like. Like, the question eventually becomes meaningless. But, yeah, I think. I think comedy becomes. Without that thing that you're saying. Absolutely. It becomes. It's not even just that it's intellectual because it's still. There's a feeling to it. It's still like, oh, yeah, yeah.
- [61:46]
B
Just like music. Yeah.
- [61:47]
A
Or like magic as well. Like when you're watching, like, a magic trick, you know, that great Pete Holmes joke, I think about how there should be a sound that like. Like laughter, but for when a trick impresses you.
- [61:58]
B
Yes.
- [61:59]
A
And. But, yeah, like, when you see an incredible. Like, oh, my God. Like, because there's a feeling. And it's like. You know, they say the. Like the Raymond Smolian book, the dao is silent. And the Tao Te Ching says, like, the dao that can be named is not the dao, but there's. There's a feeling that we have that cannot be named, but we try to give name to it. We try to give voice to it, we try to give sound to it. And it sometimes sounds like laughter, and sometimes it sounds like that's funny. And sometimes it's just, ooh, maybe.
- [62:25]
B
Maybe I'm too crass. I always thought the dow that could not be named is the nasdaq. Anyway, okay, so here are the next big questions, and we're gonna. We're gonna land on it, because this is where the special lands. What is your relationship to the word or concept of uxoriousness? Do you think it should be pronounced yuxury, like Pennsylvania Yuri?
- [62:45]
A
You know, I'm going to say number one incredible word, and can you define it for me?
- [62:51]
B
Excessive love for one's wife. Now, in your case, it wouldn't be wife per se, but she's wife. Yes. You exhibit uxery.
- [62:58]
A
Yes.
- [62:59]
B
It's weird. There's no such love for the husband. Just like there is an avuncular. But not the similar one with aunt.
- [63:03]
A
An antular. Yeah.
- [63:04]
B
Right, right. So I think of you as embodying that trait and that word, and you. And you seem very, very happy with it. I don't. I wonder if we did a soundcloud on how often that word was said, if it was said complimentary to the person or in a description that's a little pejorative. So if you're a guy who really, really loves his partner and wants everyone to know it, sometimes that's derided as wife guy.
- [63:31]
A
Right.
- [63:32]
B
A hundred years ago, it would be called uxorious. It doesn't usually have a great association.
- [63:38]
A
It's one of my favorite Duran Duran songs. Uxorious. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I. I understand the pejorative nature of. Of these, like, words and concepts, but. Yeah, I mean. And I'll. I'll take. I understand, like, in a. In a world where, like, I am very.
- [63:55]
B
You're like the voiceover guy in a world.
- [63:57]
A
Yeah, I'm in this world. I am very fortunate. I mean, I have. I have. I have not. I'm not without my, you know, know, challenges and. And sorrows and. And grief and such. But I have. I am. I have a fortunate. I had a decent upbringing. You know, I was sheltered and fed and, you know, raised and went to.
- [64:17]
B
Camp and became a camp counselor. Two hallmarks of success.
- [64:20]
A
So many things. And so I absolutely understand, like, that when, you know, what I have, I'm very grateful for what I have. And I understand that there are people who. Who on some objective measures, have less luck or less success on these certain metrics. And so I can absolutely understand why a person, you know, if somebody is unhappy with their wife, like wife guy, you know, like, I get it.
- [64:48]
B
Wife guy is happy with the wife, but everyone else looks at it with suspicion.
- [64:52]
A
Exactly. Yeah. I mean. Cause also, like, I think this is also from, you know, from daoists, the idea that, like, what. There's these. All these sort of, like, combo, like these, like, contradictions of, like, he who makes predictions does not have knowledge, and he who has knowledge does not make predictions. Or he or she or they. And similarly, so I feel like, along those lines, like, there are people who are like, you know, if you're happy and you know it, you know, keep quiet about it. You know, if you're happy and you know it, like, be aware that there are people who might not be as happy.
- [65:22]
B
That to me, you know, don't clap your hands.
- [65:26]
A
Like, that's kind of one hand kind of obnoxious.
- [65:29]
B
Yeah.
- [65:29]
A
Clap one hand. 100%. I give you a Buddhist. One hand clapping, standing ovation. And so I. But, yeah, I truly. Here's a funny thing, I mean, which kind of goes back to the beginning of our conversation. You've done a wonderful job with respect to my. Because I was married in my 20s. Monogamously. Because that was all I knew at the time. I'd only heard of it actually.
- [65:57]
B
She's the only woman you knew?
- [65:58]
A
I only knew one woman.
- [65:59]
B
Since you're gonna marry her, I mean.
- [66:01]
A
That'S why Adam and Eve, like, of course they're gonna be monogamous, like the only available.
- [66:04]
B
I got a girl for you. Said the serpent. Yeah.
- [66:06]
A
And it is part of you. Yeah, I love me, but, you know, I only knew.
- [66:12]
B
I love me some Eve. No, listen, I love me.
- [66:15]
A
I love me some Eve. I love some me Eve.
- [66:19]
B
I'm gonna get me some. Which is another one of your jokes.
- [66:22]
A
I like, these are. These are fun, fun bonuses, bonus tracks here. But yeah, I, you know, growing up, I was susceptible to societies and, you know, fairy tales and like, pop cultures, basically, you know, like pro monogamy propaganda.
- [66:40]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [66:41]
A
And so I was like, yeah, yeah, that. I'll do that. That's what people do. I'll do that. And then I did it. And I was like, that didn't do it for me, so maybe it's not for me. And that's when I, you know, in my late 20s, started exploring. I was like, maybe open relationships make logical sense to me. Polyamory makes sense. So I had varying relationships, you know, in. In that vein. And then it's funny because there's like some adults in my life who, like, my manager at one point was like, yeah, you know, he's like, like, you know, 20 years older than me. At least 10, 10 to 20 years older than me. And he's like, when you meet the right person, you know, like a lot of people, like, when you meet the right person. And I'm like, I don't know if. I don't know if that's how it works. You know, it doesn't work.
- [67:19]
B
It could be when you meet the right people.
- [67:21]
A
Yeah. And there's. I have many friends who are happily, you know, throupled or the like. And there. People only hear about, you know, open relationships for the most part when they fall apart and don't work. There's many people, people successfully, quietly leading happy, non monogamous, ethically non monogamous lives. But the weird thing is, when I did meet Reenie, when I did meet Reenie, I mean, we met and we. At first, you know, like many dating situations, we were not exclusive initially. And then after a certain point, you know, there's. This is a longer story than I'll do, but, you know, a year later we moved in together and we, at a point and for most of our relationship have been monogamous. And it's because now like my desire in wanting open relationships in the past was because in part fear based. It was like not wanting to miss out on something big that life has to offer. And now Renee is the biggest, best thing that relationship wise life has offered me.
- [68:24]
B
So you are monogamous. Cause that's how you live your life. But is it like you're sober? You actually, I mean, are you sober? You just don't drink? You are perhaps polyamorous, you're just only with this one person right now?
- [68:36]
A
That is a good question. I think I subscribe to Dan Savage's like sort of structural definition of polyamory as opposed to an identity orientation based one. So I think for me there are many things and if for you it is the other way, go for it. Have a great time. For me, I do think that that, like, I think I am not sober, quote unquote. I mean, in part because I still sometimes do psychedelics, but I don't drink alcohol in general. But also if somebody was like, come on, do a toast for this thing, I'm like, sure. I just, I've never had a rock bottom. I say sometimes I've had, you know, a few rock middles, you know, enough that I'm like, I'm just gonna stay at the rock top, you know, I'm not gonna dip back down to the bottom of the rock. But with respect to my relationship, here's a. Based on that Lenny Bruce joke that I like, sometimes I say this the.
- [69:25]
B
Only one you like?
- [69:26]
A
Yeah, the only one I know. Yeah, the one that I love that's monogamous with that Lenny Bruce joke.
- [69:30]
B
Your relationship to Lenny Bruce's comedy is to that one woman you knew and married 100%. One joke. One woman. That's for me.
- [69:37]
A
And so just to recap, in case people don't remember, I'm not a comedian, I'm Lenny Bruce. And so Renee and I, we are, you know, we've been together, we're in our 40s, we've been together almost 10 years. We are, quote, unquote, boyfriend and girlfriend. But I'm like, does that even make sense? Look, what? Like, it's another terminology, it's another genre of religion relationship. So I say, we're not like, I'm Mike, she's Renee. Yeah, we're not boyfriend and girlfriend. We're Lenny Bruce. Yeah, we are Mike and Renee. And so I, I do say, I would say, though I am, I am monogamous and I am. I'm more Rene Algamous. You know what I mean?
- [70:13]
B
Right. Because Bill de Blasio's wife, I forget her name, she said that. Essential. It's like, no, it's not that I'm bisexual. I'm Bill sexual. I like women. And just Bill de Blasio, which confused a lot of people because of definitions of sexuality, but also very specifically because of Bill de Blasio.
- [70:30]
A
But, yeah, but I. When I'm like, my relationship with Rini is unlike any that I've ever experienced, which is. You know how. I mean, one of the. One of the ways that I know that it is the exciting, like, all genre experience thing. Like, there's this Alan Watts quote about how, like, life itself is every genre. Like, it's comedy and it's drama and it's, you know, hopefully not too much horror. Like maybe a little porn, you know, whatever it might be. I forget the quote. It's a great quote. Look it up. But with respect to, like, there's. Oh, do you know Adam Mastroianni, the science writer?
- [71:03]
B
Yeah. I like his substack.
- [71:05]
A
I love it a lot. There was one where he talks about the way that sometimes people try to give, like, relationship advice, which does not acknowledge that everyone's relationship individually is absolutely going to be different. He's like. It's like describing a movie as if all movies are the same. And you're describing your relationship like, you're gonna love the part when Tom Cruise jumps out of the helicopter and the other person's like, I don't even know if Tom Cruise is in my. My relationship movie. And so my, you know, movie, like, lifelong relationship with Rini, it's just like, I love her so much because she is so wise and kind and so. So both. Both kinds of complimentary, you know, but mainly the kind of complimentary where we have, like, I'm good with time and she is good with space, you know, so, like, she is an incredible, like, dancer and a kinesthetic, like, thinker and a visual operator. She can Tetris everything into our tiny home. And I can be like, oh, that looks nice. And she's like, oh, I put that there six months ago, you know. Oh, yeah, that's. I'm sure I noticed it right now, but. And I can help us get to the airport on time, you know, and so we have just all of these ways that, you know, so many ways that we overlap and then so many ways that are, like, just different enough that it's just this, you know, this beautiful like, you know, like a double helix of each of us creating, like, the perfect relationship DNA.
- [72:28]
B
If I could ask you three quick questions and lightning round this one. What is your opinion of Louis Malmud?
- [72:34]
A
Never heard of him.
- [72:34]
B
He's the cantor whose name is listed behind you in the special.
- [72:37]
A
Ah. Then grateful that he. It's a real cool place, the Actors Temple Theater. I'd never heard of it until our producer found it. And it looks incredible. It looks unlike any comedy special that I've ever seen. And it is both a functioning theater and a synagogue. And so one with stained glass that makes it look church like, as well. So it sort of evokes exactly what we want in the way of, like, a wedding or a marriage or something, you know, holy and spiritual could happen here and is happening here.
- [73:13]
B
Yeah. Is it just me, or have other people told you they didn't notice the stool until you used it in your act?
- [73:21]
A
I think so, because that stool in particular, it's smaller and, like, kind of blended in, you know, with the.
- [73:28]
B
But there I went back and watched. I'm like, did he just. How did that happen? It was just there the whole time.
- [73:33]
A
The whole time. And. And that stool, I want to say briefly, was a gift from the Gidio family. And Rini has been, you know, since a little around. When I met her, she started being friends with this woman, Toby Gidio, who sadly died, I believe, just over a year ago from cancer in her early 60s. I think it was just over 60. And she was, like, one of Rini's best friends. And I think. I think in hope, we definitely thanked them in the thing. And, like, I feel like I'll say now we dedicate it to her. And she is, you know, she was just like, you know, a beautiful, like, friend and being. And so. And Rini. When we were thinking about what kind of stool to get, Rini was like, oh, this one that's in Toby's home would be, like, perfect for, like, the vibe and the aesthetic and the fit. And then her family was like, of course, take. Take it and have it. And. And so it became ours. And, yeah, I think it's another kind of, like, a perfect confluence. I would rather Toby have lived and kept her.
- [74:31]
B
It's not worth a stool. Yes.
- [74:32]
A
But since that, it didn't happen.
- [74:34]
B
Thanks for the clarification.
- [74:35]
A
Thank you.
- [74:36]
B
Also, you're throwing people off the suspicion that it was you that done her in for the story.
- [74:39]
A
I did not do it. Yes.
- [74:40]
B
So the last thing is, and maybe it's a very big Thing, but you can answer it as tersely as you want. Different comedians often talk about their wives or their partners. And the classic one, you know, Henny Youngman will insert insult. His wife or partner. Sometimes that does that. Wouldn't play as well to go straight at that now. But there's many a person who's essentially insulting their partner.
- [75:03]
A
Yeah.
- [75:04]
B
Yes. Then there's Rachel Feinstein, who gets so much mileage out of being married to this fireman. And it's great stuff. And you wind up loving the guy, even though it's mostly making fun of the guy. Then there's Ray Romano. There's a hundred ways to do this, but the wife is always very, very wise in his comedy and makes Ray look like an idiot. I've never seen it done, what you're doing, which is just this huge outpouring of love without anything like an insult, with complimenting her for being funnier than you are. And I wonder if. I don't know if that. How conscious that was, but also if you think that that is in some ways a burden you put for yourself or a little bit of a hurdle or inimical. Inimical. Inimical. Inimical. I don't know. Whatever that word is. The opposite of what usually makes us laugh. I'm this guy who's super enlightening love, and I got nothing bad to say about her. And you're probably gonna envy me at the end of this.
- [76:00]
A
In amicable. Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. But thank number one. Thank you. What a generous question. I don't know, again, if it was, like, meticulously, like, explicitly thought out to be this way. Here's one of the advantages. One of the benefits that Rini brings to my life and comedy, or to my. The comedy in my life is, like, at least she came to me, came with me to Edinburgh in 2018 and 23. But in 2018, when I was doing the show there that would become the album, AKA which I talked to you about probably five years ago, she watched almost every show that I did and, like, took notes. And she has, you know, a real, like, when she likes something, when she has, like, special interests that she can dedicate many, you know, hours and tons of attention and effort to for fun. It's a joy to her. And she loves me and loves my comedy and wants to help. And one time she once said, I. She said, I don't think I could ever be a comedian because I like things to make sense. And so much comedy, like, has joke logic to it. But not real world logic to it. Like, you know, Andy Kindler, years ago was on Letter, and he did a fun bit where he's just, like, going after. He's like, some comedians are like, sugar free gum. Who's that for? Diabetics, you know? And so you understand that Rini would, like, listen to me tell a joke that would work, that had, like, the joke logic was strong and absolutely, totally, like. Like, nobody in the audience was ever like, what are you talking about? But she would be like, what you're saying, like, literally, like, if you look at the words, like, this is not true or does not make sense. Have you thought about trying, like, what, you said it like this, or is there a way that it could get the whole joke across but also be real?
- [77:50]
B
Yes. Was she right about that?
- [77:52]
A
It turns out, I mean, initially, I was as hesitant as you were for that one second. Like, I honestly was like, hey, I.
- [77:59]
B
Was trying to pronounce inimicable, the world's worst word. Just found that out as it tried to make its way into my mouth.
- [78:06]
A
But, yeah, I truly. I was, like, coming from a place where of, like, hey, it's working. I don't want to, like, take it apart and put it back together and find out that it doesn't work. I mean, what am I worried about? Well, then just do it the original way. But I would. I trusted her, and I was like, I don't even know if it was like this, but it could have been some element of like, okay, I'll. I'll try it your way. Oh, it works better. You know, like, I could sometimes just do it my way and then add another thing, and then I get an extra joke where it's also the truth. So. Because I really do, like, other than here's the only person who I think I don't mind not knowing what's true is Nathan Fielder. I'm like, I don't know, truly, what is going on for real in that guy's life and mind, and I don't care. It's delightful. It's wonderful. It's a mystery.
- [78:54]
B
Are there airplanes? Have any of them crashed?
- [78:56]
A
But there's, like, I saw a comedian once who was telling jokes about. My girlfriend picks these pants out for me, and they're a little tight, and she's pregnant with our first child. It's a girl. I want it to be a boy. And afterwards, I was talking to him, and I was like, so is that all? Like, is that all true about your girlfriend? He's like, oh, I don't Have a girlfriend. I was like, what. What is happening?
- [79:15]
B
Wearing a skirt.
- [79:16]
A
Yeah, that's. I was like. But truly, I. I'm not saying that. Like, you know, Anthony Jeselnik. I'm fine. Like, I know what's true and what's not true. Like, I do love in his most recent special, like, the jokes about Joe Rogan, the Feud, because I'm like, those are real. Those are what he really thinks and believes. And he has. And his villainous character delivers them equally to the jokes that were like, clearly, he is not, you know, murdering.
- [79:41]
B
Did you see him interviewing Tig Notaro, asking her, who is your least favorite comedian? Oh, no. Yeah. She mouths it. There's a huge debate about what it is. And this is where the comments actually help.
- [79:50]
A
Oh, that's. That's beautiful. But, yeah, so of course, be a character, absolutely. But. And I just think I like the audience to know what is real. Like, not everything that I say is literally 100% true with no exaggeration, but I remember seeing Stephen Colbert interviewed when he was still doing the Colbert Report as a character, right? And I remember the interviewer talking to him, not on the Colbert Report, talking to. He's like. The interviewer said something like, okay, so who am I talking to? Stephen Colbert the character or Stephen Colbert the human? And Stephen Colbert's just like, well, who do you. Who do you want to talk to? Like, who would you like to answer the question? And it just took the wind out of the guy's sail, and it was, like.
- [80:31]
B
It was perfect, but sounds like there was a lot of wind in there to begin with. There was a lot of wind in.
- [80:34]
A
There that needed to come out, and then the calm sea was able to be traversed easily. And Stephen Colbert's like, yeah, as the character, I would say this. And as, you know, my real human self, I would say this. And I love that because, like, why not? Like, it's. It doesn't have to be a trick. It doesn't have, like, as long as. And so if it is. I mean, if what I'm doing is. Takes more like, you know, higher. If it's a higher difficulty level to have this. I mean, it is my perspective. And so I do think in creating the jokes, they're in making sure that the jokes are funny or as funny as they need to be, as they want to be. Maybe they do have to be funny funnier if they're not fitting in the slot where somebody's like, oh, this guy hates his wife. Right? I know that one. Yeah. Oh, Ooh. A little variation on that one, but this guy doesn't. Oh, is he ever gonna hate his wife? When's the shoe gotta drop? He's gotta hate his wife. The show's over. He didn't hate his wife. Oh, man, I hate my wife.
- [81:33]
B
Okay.
- [81:34]
A
So, yeah, I appreciate the question. And yeah, I mean, it's just in some ways, I remember I had a birthday show at Union hall seven, eight, nine years ago, and two of the people on it. On it or at it? I know Chris Gethard was on the show and my friend Paul Barman, the rapper.
- [81:54]
B
Dj.
- [81:55]
A
Yeah. MC Paul Barman. Yes, he was definitely. He might have been on the show or he might have just come to the show, but I remember being a part of a conversation. He's been.
- [82:04]
B
A birthday show of yours at Union hall where Paul Barman was there. Maybe this was the show.
- [82:09]
A
It could be. I think this one was years earlier.
- [82:11]
B
Okay.
- [82:11]
A
But it could be. Okay, But I remember Chris Gethard. Paul asked Chris, why do you only tell true stories in your comedy? And Chris said something like. He's like, I am not good at making stuff up. He's just like, I don't know if that's true, but he's just like, for him, that's his art. His art is the stories of his life and the way that they come out. This beautiful, creative, artistic. Just descriptions of life in New Jersey with his family of origin or his friends or his family of creation. And like. Yeah, and we don't want him to, like, he. If he tried to be Anthony Jeselnik, it wouldn't make any sense. I mean, it just won't come out that way. And for me, I feel like a similar. I feel like when I started, I definitely had some jokes that were like, I don't know, weird. Just joke equations, like a Hedbergian or Demart, Dimitri Martinian or Steven Wright esque, where I'm like, you know, I had a joke that was like the. I was at in LA and there was an earthquake and it destroyed everything at the Etch A Sketch Museum. I'm like, that's. That's, that's. What? What is it? What is it? I never. At that point, I'd never even been to la. Like, nothing true about it. There's no museum. Like, what even is it? It's smoke. It's a sand mandala. It's an Etch A Sketch. It disappears like itself. That's pretty fun. And so, you know, some of my jokes are still, you know, just like weird oddities and absurdities. That delight me. And the truth of them is that they delight me. Like, you know, Jacqueline Novak, I'm sure.
- [83:39]
B
Yeah. God, she's great. Great hair.
- [83:42]
A
Oh, yeah. We were in. She was in Edinburgh doing the show that would become her special get on youn knees in 2018. She was working on it for a long time. And so I saw one of the first versions of it, and she saw we were there together. And I remember her saying to me once around the. Then she said, mike, a lot of people might say that your comedy is about words. But he's like, I don't think. I don't think that's what it is. She's like, I think that your comedy is about a man obsessed with words. And I was like, I don't know if I'd say obsessed as the right word, but. Okay, I take your point. I see what you're saying.
- [84:15]
B
Well, the etymology of obsessed would indicate.
- [84:17]
A
But so now, like, I love and I try to embody in my own way of this, you know, the Paul Ftomk opening line of one special. He says, I'm Paul F. Tompkins, and I do Paul F. Tompkins based comedy. I'm like, that's perfect. And that's what, you know. Reggie Watts is doing Reggie Watts based comedy. Maria Bamford. Maria Bamford based comedy. Like, everyone. Like, no one is better than anyone.
- [84:38]
B
You're doing Mike and Rinny based comedy. Now I am now Renny is now Mike.
- [84:42]
A
I have now doubled in a way. I've been thinking about this. I forget. I feel like it's a David Cross joke. Maybe it's multiple peoples or this concept of, if you are a gay man in a relationship with another gay man who's about your size, then you've doubled your wardrobe. And I feel that that has happened for me comedically, creatively, spiritually. With Renee, we're not the same physical size, but our senses of humor are aligned enough that because she's not a comedian. And this is where a lot of this special comes from, is like, I have doubled my ingredient list for. For what can be. And I've doubled the comedy menu.
- [85:19]
B
Mike Kaplan's. I'll even say it correctly. Well, you also dress a little complimentary, which is really nice. That's the reveal at the end. And you can find this in Mike Kaplan's new special. It's on YouTube. It is called, as you may have surmised, Renee. And also, if you've listened to this, you could tell Mike and I don't really get along. I have much in common. But if you listen to this and he promised he would get to a topic that he didn't get to write in and we will have him address address every unplucked fruit from the tree because we don't want to have you as the funny you should mention listener hanging out there saying, but wait a minute, Mike promised that he'd be doing a little riff on the hummingbird. Thank you, Mike Kaplan.
- [85:57]
A
Thank you. Thank you for having me. You are cool and I appreciate you. Forever in me. It was heavenly. Thank you.
- [86:21]
B
The Gist is produced by Cory Wara. We had help today from Leah Yan. Kathleen Sykes helps me with the gist list. Text Mike 233777 and you could see what's behind today's paywall pageant chicanery in the Philippines. Jeff Craig does so much with the video and the socials and the and the visual. He's a master of the visual in this a primarily audio form. Michelle Pesca also works with the visuals but is mostly the visionary improve do Peru. And thanks for listening.
- [86:59]
A
Sam.