Funny You Should Mention...Again - Sam Jay

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Gist – Episode "Funny You Should Mention...Again" Featuring Sam Jay

Release Date: December 27, 2024
Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: Sam Jay
Produced by: Peach Fish Productions

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Introduction

In this episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca engages in an in-depth conversation with acclaimed comedian Sam Jay. The discussion delves into Sam's unique approach to comedy, her HBO show Bus Down, her stand-up routines, and her perspectives on pressing societal issues such as race, trans rights, and economic disparities.

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Sam Jay's Approach to Comedy

Sam Jay's comedic style is both personal and provocative, often intertwining her life experiences with broader cultural and societal themes. Mike Pesca notes:

Mike Pesca [06:01]: "It seems like your standup is much more personal and biographical than a lot of... Than, say, the HBO show was."

Contrary to this observation, Sam clarifies that both her stand-up and her HBO show are deeply personal.

Sam Jay [06:11]: "I think the HBO show is completely personal... Every episode is about something I'm struggling with or something that I have questions about."

She emphasizes that her comedy is not about lecturing the audience but about sharing her personal journey and vulnerabilities.

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Navigating Sensitive Topics

The conversation shifts to Sam's handling of sensitive topics, particularly her jokes about Greta Thunberg and trans women. Mike observes:

Mike Pesca [08:39]: "Even in the parts that talk about an issue, you will often say, hey, look, I understand..."

Sam underscores her intention to foster understanding rather than alienation.

Sam Jay [15:42]: "I try to present things in a way where I put my own ignorance on the table so that people can be open to hearing the other side of it..."

She acknowledges the challenges and backlash that can arise from addressing such topics but remains committed to pushing conversations forward.

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Discussion on Race and Society

A significant portion of the episode addresses the dynamics of race relations in America. Sam shares her personal experiences growing up as a Black woman and the pervasive fear of police brutality.

Sam Jay [22:03]: "I've known police to beat up my friends. I've known police to beat up my family... And this is a story I've shared with friends."

She argues that the fear Black individuals have towards law enforcement is rooted in lived experiences rather than media portrayal.

Sam Jay [23:22]: "Unless you've had that experience, you may very well feel that way and you may be very right in feeling that."

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Economic Disparities and Black Wealth

The discussion transitions to economic issues, particularly the lack of financial education and resources within Black communities. Mike raises the point:

Mike Pesca [28:34]: "Do you think it's more true than not that black Americans are getting bad advice or that they're just getting no advice at all?"

Sam responds by highlighting the systemic lack of access to financial knowledge.

Sam Jay [29:11]: "I think it's true that poor Americans aren't getting any advice at all... And people with access have been taught this very early because of their access and their privilege."

She emphasizes that financial literacy is often tied to privilege, making it harder for marginalized communities to access vital economic information.

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Personal Experiences and Family Influence

Sam reflects on the influence of her late mother on her worldview and comedic material.

Mike Pesca [43:12]: "You talk about your mom, who obviously you love very much... But here you are as an adult processing the truth of that and maybe wondering if she set you up for failure."

Sam discusses how her mother's teachings, while well-intentioned, sometimes lacked the depth needed for adult understanding.

Sam Jay [44:39]: "I only got the lesson for the child. I never got the simple for the adult."

She contemplates how her upbringing has shaped her perspectives and comedic narratives.

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Voting and Political Engagement

Towards the end of the episode, Sam shares her cynical view of the political system and the act of voting.

Sam Jay [48:18]: "I do think it's a big ruse that one day we're going to... It feels like people make the choice."

Mike probes deeper into her disenchantment with the electoral process.

Mike Pesca [50:08]: "Do you think that you're being lied to or is it worse to live the consequence of those lies?"

Sam argues that being lied to undermines personal agency and choice.

Sam Jay [50:37]: "I think it's worse out being lied to because being lied to is the first thing that takes away my choice."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the continuous push for societal progress and the importance of maintaining momentum in combating systemic issues.

Sam Jay [48:26]: "Of course."

Sam Jay [48:28]: "Try to keep pushing it further."

Mike wraps up by highlighting Sam's upcoming Netflix special titled Salute Me or Shoot Me, expressing gratitude for her candid insights.

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Notable Quotes

• Sam Jay [06:11]: "Every episode is about something I'm struggling with or something that I have questions about."

• Sam Jay [15:42]: "I try to present things in a way where I put my own ignorance on the table so that people can be open to hearing the other side of it."

• Sam Jay [22:03]: "I've known police to beat up my friends. I've known police to beat up my family."

• Sam Jay [29:11]: "I think it's true that poor Americans aren't getting any advice at all... And people with access have been taught this very early because of their access and their privilege."

• Sam Jay [44:39]: "I only got the lesson for the child. I never got the simple for the adult."

• Sam Jay [48:18]: "I do think it's a big ruse that one day we're going to... It feels like people make the choice."

• Sam Jay [50:37]: "I think it's worse out being lied to because being lied to is the first thing that takes away my choice."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Gist offers a profound exploration of Sam Jay's comedic philosophy and her unflinching honesty about personal and societal challenges. Through candid dialogue, Sam articulates the complexities of navigating identity, systemic oppression, and the quest for personal and collective empowerment.

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Accessing More Content

Listeners interested in viewing the full conversation can watch clips and additional episodes on The Gist's YouTube channel. Stay tuned for upcoming episodes, including Sam Jay's special Salute Me or Shoot Me.

Transcript

[Sam J]

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[Mike Pesca]

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[Sam J]

From handbags to iconic streetwear, all authenticated for real this time.

[Mike Pesca]

A little supreme, some Gucci. I even have that vintage Prada on my watch list. That's why ebay's my go to for all my go tos. Yeah, ebay the place for new, pre.

[Sam J]

Loved, vintage and rare fashion. EBay Things People Love Foreign.

[Mike Pesca]

It's Friday, December 27, 2024 from Peach Fish Productions. It's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca. Today's comedian in our Replay our succinct six episode replay of Funny you should mention is Sam J. I recently saw Sam as a panelist on the CNN show have I Got news for you. And that's hosted by Roy Wood, who is the last guest in our Funny you should mention series, Sam J. I've got an insight into Sam's personality and her way of doing comedy, which is very much to comment on the news, which is very much to situate herself and her experience within the broader cultural milieu. Yeah, hey, you hate that phrase as much as I do, but we're going to gussy up. Funny you should mention she's a person who loves to try out ideas and she was talking about, oh, some crazy conspiracy theory that you could tell she doesn't even believe, but maybe she does and she tries it out and it gets a reaction. She plays with it. And that's kind of what she does in her comedy in her HBO show. That was a really fascinating show that came at a specific time when HBO and networks like it were saying, hey, let's give money to people we haven't heard from before. And and they could do interesting things. And she did do interesting things. And Sam is doing interesting things consistently in her standup as well. I think you'll enjoy this episode. As much as I enjoyed talking to Sam. I'll also give you a couple of calls to action. Watch the show on YouTube, subscribe to our YouTube channel, pass around the video of this show and the second one is. Subscribe to Pesca Plus. Subscribe to an ad free podcast that'd be at subscribe.mikepesca.com Enough of the commerce onto the comedy Sam J.

[Sam J]

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[Mike Pesca]

Joining me now is Sam J. Her show that's on Peacock is called Bus Down. I'm very interested in her HBO show. Pause. She has written for Saturday Night Live. Yes, her stand. Maybe she will again. From what I heard, she was offered a cast position. Had to choose between that and hbo. I guess it's a decent problem to have her stand up. Specials are just something not to miss. And Sam? Oh yes, maybe if you're like Sam J. No, not Sam B. Sam J. She's the one who chopped it up with Jonah Hill as a podcaster in what was the name of the movie? You People. You people. So you know, welcome. Welcome to Podcast. You played a podcaster and I have to admit. And welcome to the Gist. And welcome to Funny youy should Mention, where we talk about the ideas of comedy as if they're real ideas, as if they're an op ed or an argument. We won't necessarily debate it, but I want to really get to the bottom of what you're thinking. But I first want to, I don't know, disclose. When I said you chopped it up with Jonah Hill, that's, like, at the edge of my comfort zone. I don't. That's, like, in terms of slang. So I don't know if you sense that about me. You're like, this is the guy who says chopped it off.

[Sam J]

Nah, nah, it was okay. It kind of just rolled off the tongue. It felt natural.

[Mike Pesca]

Thank you. It was in the moment, I think, is what happened. So first, I'll start with an observation. It seems like your standup is much more personal and biographical than a lot of. Than, say, the HBO show was. The HBO show is about issues and arguments. And it's not that you don't talk about issues in your standup, but mostly it's about you as a person. Do you find that to be the case, and if so, why?

[Sam J]

I actually firmly just disagree with you.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, go ahead. Let's have.

[Sam J]

I think the HBO show is completely personal, and we.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, I see. You went that way. Yes.

[Sam J]

We truly attacked it from a personal space each season. Every episode is about something I'm struggling with or something that I have questions about, from the Titties out episode to the money episode. Like, every episode is kind of centered around something in my universe and something that I've been worried about or struggling with or trying to understand. So it's very personal.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sam J]

Yeah. So, yeah, I don't really know how to answer that question because I really think they're both equally.

[Mike Pesca]

This is what I mean. Yeah. Everything that you talk about in the show are things that's important to you. And there's disclosure of in ways both subtle and overt. Like, you'll talk about your mom's lupus. And there was the incarceration episode where it's about your brother being incarcerated. And yeah. You watch the show, and afterwards you're like, wow, I just learned a lot about Sam Jay. But you watch the standup, and it's not about an issue that somehow tells the audience, oh, this is what she's like as a person. It's about you as a person.

[Sam J]

It's like, this is who I am as a person.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sam J]

It's more direct.

[Mike Pesca]

Correct. And so. So my question is, is there something about the form of standup, or is it just the thing where, look, you get on a stage, everyone's like, who's this? You gotta tell them right away who you are.

[Sam J]

I'll be honest. I never really thought about why. Yeah, it just felt natural. To do one way and one felt natural to do the other way. To be quite honest, it wasn't like this big decision I made. I just felt like I can't talk about political things or I just never wanted to be a person. Just touting opinions at people and telling people how they should behave or how they should feel or how they should think. And if I was gonna do that in any way, then I felt I need to put myself at the center of it and talk about myself. To give it any, like, brevity or levity or other than that. I'm just, like, wagging my finger at people and acting like I know more than them.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Sam J]

The reality is that I do not. I'm just a person out here, you know, bumping into walls and figuring shit out like everybody else.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And even in your standup, even in the parts that talk about an issue, you will often say, hey, look, I understand fine. That statement came from a place of ignorance. But I understand ignorant. I'm not not ignorant. There's all these qualifiers. You're kind of what I take it as appealing to the audience, saying, it's not about a lecture. Right. It's about, let's all meet in a place where we're trying to understand, but with that basis. Here's my observation, here's my observation, say, about Greta Thunberg, which is, like, really funny.

[Sam J]

I had her attitude. I get the message. It's the way she's presenting it. That's fucking trash. And people will want to accept that and be real about that. It's like, tell the truth. Her presentation sucks. Right. I would fuck with her more if her attitude was this. Everybody's fucked up. We all messed up the planet, and we all need to come together to fix this. Cause we all did bad. But her message is, adults, you fucked up adults. You left me a bit planted. Adults. You did wrong. Like, bitch, the shit was fucked up for me too. What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't walk onto a pristine Earth, Bitch. This shit been bad. Matter of fact, when I was a kid, they told me California was. Was gonna be gone by now. Bitch. Be glad that shit's still here. Motherfucker. Dummy. They've never given a fuck about the future. No one cares about the future. People care about their kids. That's it. When I was 7, I went to Disney World on a plane full of cigarette smoke. Coughed the whole way. All they did was offer me Sprite. You want some Sprite? Little nice.

[Mike Pesca]

You didn't come at it like what's with this Greta Thunberg girl? I can't take.

[Sam J]

No, no, no. Because she's doing like, her job as a youth that sees grownups it up, you know, like she's just being youthful and active and, you know.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sam J]

But as a grownup that had it fucked up for me and, you know, now as an older person realizing, like, when I was yelling at adults, they probably were feeling the same way, like, dude, I don't know. It's been fucked up. It's not like I came in here to make it crazy for you. It's been fucking crazy. Like, what do you actually want from me? Right?

[Mike Pesca]

Which is blaming adults. You're like, wait a minute, I'm an adult now.

[Sam J]

I'm an adult. And I'm like, that's not fair. And also, I didn't particularly do anything. I just kind of showed up to the shitty space and did my best, you know, so just, you know, trying to bring that perspective to it of, like, there's always a range of thought within. Within a thought, you know.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And I think you acknowledge that a lot more than other comics. Right. There's maybe a idea in comedy where, you know, it's a punchline. You got to go at someone, you got to make them. You got to make your victims appear to be, if not villainous sort of caricatures. You give Greta all of her humanity. You like, say you understand why she's doing what she's doing, but on the other hand. Shut up, you child.

[Sam J]

Yeah, just shut up. I get it though, you know?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. You have another bit about trans women where you say, first of all, shut the fuck up. Of course they're women. Right.

[Sam J]

And I'm not saying that trans women aren't women. I'm not one of those corny ass trans women and women shut the fuck up. But when one of those women's hands is big enough to palm a football and she's caving the other woman's chest in, we gotta make some notes, maybe figure out a new approach how we're gonna work this shit out to move on as a goddamn society. I hate women that don't embrace trans women, though. That's corny. They're not real women. Shut up. They're real women. They're doing all. They're contouring, they're waxing, all the shit. They're doing everything you do, goofy plucking their chin hairs, your dumb ass. Plus. What are you talking about? Women who don't embrace trans women. What are you saying? Who do you think we are? We need these super bitches. Are you stupid? These are our X Men. The world is about to change for us. Get fucking excited. This is a goddamn bless. What are you saying? Lombardi trophy, here we come. We bout to be NFL champions, baby. These trans bitches on our team, it's gonna be lit. You thought we was gonna get to an NFL championship without these bitches, you stupid fuck? No, we wasn't. I was arguing with this lady. She was like, we could do regular cisgendered women. She could do fuck you. No, they couldn't. No, they couldn't. Let's say miraculously we have some cisgender women who. Who gets all the way to the NFL. She's never fucking been touched all her career. Right. She's some flat chested phenom. Cause that's what she would have to be to cut through the wind so no one could get her. She couldn't have no titties. She's flat chested and she just. Her whole career. Whap. Oh my God. They can't touch her. Whap. Why? Cause she aerodynamic. Cause the titties gone. Wap. Let's say this happens in the fucking world. She's gonna get to the NFL. She's gonna get tackled once and the bitch is gonna die.

[Mike Pesca]

But. And then here comes the comic premise. So what are some of the things that you wonder about?

[Sam J]

Oh, well, I'm not. I'm not repeating that joke. It got me in a lot of trouble. Did it?

[Mike Pesca]

I didn't know that.

[Sam J]

So I kind of stay away from that as a. As a topic of conversation, at least for me. Like, I will discuss it, but I'm not. If you don't know the bit, I'm not gonna go running. Running down the bit.

[Mike Pesca]

Right, right. Okay. So I didn't want to make you do that.

[Sam J]

We're having an honest conversation. I don't take. I take none of this personally or you know what I mean.

[Mike Pesca]

Yep.

[Sam J]

We're just vibing. I'm just gonna tell you the truth. You know what I'm saying?

[Mike Pesca]

You know, we're chopping it up.

[Sam J]

Yeah, yeah. I have no. Like. Cause the thing is. And the thing is, it's not an issue of I believe in the joke, you know, And I know what I was saying and why I was saying it the way I was saying it. But I also understand why people could get offended by it. And some did get offended by it. And my choice to not dig into the bit is just. I don't feel like I can give you what you need if I just encapsulate the bit in that way.

[Mike Pesca]

So the bit is the bit.

[Sam J]

I don't talk about the bit, but it has to be, you know, you have to kind of get it fully in context, in my opinion.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sam J]

To form an opinion about it. And if I just isolate the bit without the context that was built all around it to support it, then it just can come off shitty. And that's not what the goal was. Nor was that the. The intention or the premise, which.

[Mike Pesca]

That is why I was surprised that, yeah, I know talking about trans issues in a certain way, or maybe. Maybe in almost every way, can get one in trouble. But since I only saw it in the context, I was surprised when you just told me that you got in trouble. Because to me, it's like, first of.

[Sam J]

All, it's very, you know, there was just trigger parts to the bit, and I knew. I knew there were parts that were triggering. Like when I was like, I don't wanna get in a fight with a trans woman, I knew that was going to be triggering, but I was just trying to address the fact that these fears are real to some people, and we can't act like they're not because they're, you know, inconvenient. But we can start to dissect, like, why these fears are existing in people and why it's ignorant to necessarily maybe think that way. But also, I can't be a liar and say I never thought that way and I just don't think. I think we do a lot of persecuting people for ignorance instead of trying to teach them something else or show them another option. And I try to present things in a way where I put my own ignorance on the table so that people can be open to hearing the other side of it, which is like, why you shouldn't be in that space mentally or whatever. You know what I'm saying?

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. You communicate. I mean, I really think you're communicating that you're meeting people where they are. You couldn't be any clearer. I mean, if my audience says, no, you're a black woman, you're a lesbian, you're an ally, to use a word that maybe like sticks in your mouth is a little too woke or something like that. But you're an ally for certain to trans women. And then you have comedy about it. Right. It's not punching down, it's literally about punching. I wonder if you think that that entire notion is at all useful.

[Sam J]

You know, the notion of punching down.

[Mike Pesca]

The notion of, yes, don't. Let's not do that. There are vulnerable people and therefore the jokes should not be made about them.

[Sam J]

I just don't know what that gets us as a society if we're just not allowed to discuss things. Because I feel like comedy is always, to me anyway, it's about, you know, taking things that we know we're talking about and trying to push the conversation forward. And that's what I was trying to do with that joke. Whether people saw that as I achieved it or not, I don't even choose to argue that point because I don't even think that's for me to decide if I achieved it or I didn't. I know that's what I was trying to do. You know what I mean? And sometimes I don't think that people think about it, like, especially when the topics are sensitive. It's like you're trying to do this, like, difficult gymnast dismount on a fucking A thing, you know, you gotta fucking step all types of around because of how people are gonna react to it. And so it's like it, you know, if. If I landed and my foot was a little over the line or it just wasn't. I didn't stick the landing. I. I can't say I did or I didn't because that's really up to how people received it and feel about it. But I do know that the attempt was to move the conversation forward in a positive way. You know, that's was the attempt was. That's why I was saying, like, yo, like, women, shut the fuck up. Like, we need these bitches. Like, you're bugging. You think we're better without them? We're fucking not.

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[Sam J]

You know what I mean?

[Mike Pesca]

So, like win the super bowl with them.

[Sam J]

Get. Get off your fucking high horse, you know what I'm saying? And allow the idea of womanhood and for, you know, trans men, masculinity to fudgeing evolve. You know what I'm saying? Allow that idea to grow and allow that idea to expand themselves. And then that's where like the whole X Men part of it came from. Because I'm a big fan of the X Men and I, you know, I always thought to me reading the comic book that the X Men one was like what Xavier called them. And that was like an elite class of fucking mutant. And really not a mutant, because mutant is like the bad word. That like the people who hated them, like, mutant is like nigger, you know, so it's like the people who hated them and didn't understand that this was like an evolution of humanity and that we should be allowing this evolution of humanity to happen because we only get better as humans if we let the X Men fudgeing rock. Because they're just evolved humans. I was saying the same thing when it came to gender and this idea of gender. Like, this is just an evolution of gender and we're high, sentient, thinking beings. And so thus this thing should fudgeing evolve. And, like, you need to kind of shut the fuck up and let it evolve. You know what I mean? But for some people, they heard X Men and all they heard was fudgeing mutant and that I was, you know, trying to be shitty. And for some people, they heard the fighting part of the joke and just felt like I was just trying to be fucking shitty. And I accept that and I get how that can happen, but I know that wasn't where my heart was, nor was that my intention.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm going to guess that you have trans women in your life. Who told you? Who told you that was funny?

[Sam J]

Of course I do.

[Mike Pesca]

I have. No offense to that.

[Sam J]

Of course I do. And I have trans woman, my wife, who said they were offended. I have both things happening.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Sam J]

Because that's like what living is.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Do you see yourself more as in the philosophy of Professor X or Magneto when it comes to this issue? Magneto way.

[Sam J]

Professor X way.

[Mike Pesca]

Because Magneto says, you know, humanity stopped. Regular humans stopped. We've perfected humanity.

[Sam J]

No, I think it's just like we're all growing together and learning together and figuring each other out. And as new ideas come and new identities come, it's just a challenge to all of us to expand how we see this whole experience.

[Mike Pesca]

So I wanna talk about some specific episodes of the Pause. I very much enjoyed your framing of the black and white interpersonal experience as trauma.

[Sam J]

Do you think white and black people are in an abusive relationship in America?

[Mike Pesca]

Yes, as shared trauma. And the way you talk to a trauma expert and then just ended up with. So would you say that we are in an abusive relationship? And she, a white woman, said, yes. That was really well done.

[Sam J]

Thank you.

[Mike Pesca]

Did you have that conceit going in?

[Sam J]

Yes. Yeah, in my mind.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. That you were going to get an expert to validate that.

[Sam J]

No, I didn't know what she was going to say or not say. I had no idea. I knew that that was my take. I didn't know what take she was gonna have on it all.

[Mike Pesca]

Now, at one point in that episode, you talked about Kim Potter she's the police officer who shot Daunte Wright, killed him. She was reaching for his Taser. And you said that this is all based on fear, the way you saw it.

[Sam J]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

Now, what I was thinking is that may be true. I mean, it's almost inexplicable that she would reach for with the wrong hand, that she would reach for her revolver instead of the clearly marked yellow Taser that she literally trained people on. And there's no. I know some people were saying, oh, she wanted to kill him. That doesn't make sense to me. Want. Right. But here's my question. What about the fear that works the other way? What about Dante Wright's fear? Because he was literally calling his mom, saying, they're going to pull me over and they're going to pull a George Floyd on me. Yeah, I mean, that was going on too, right?

[Sam J]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mike Pesca]

I would look at it and say, on the one hand, I understand you live in Minnesota. You're worried about this. On the other hand, I do think we have societally emphasized this narrative that every interaction that black people have with police can be or maybe will be a deadly interaction.

[Sam J]

I think that's the reality for black people.

[Mike Pesca]

But is it the reality or is it. I mean, it's certainly a.

[Sam J]

No, it clearly isn't, because I'm sure you can go to tons of police reports where that did not happen.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Sam J]

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do think it is the reality for black people. I think more often than not, because I don't. I think often people try to encapsulate a moment as a person's life experience. So pre George Floyd, this person was a black man living in the world. Since I've been growing up, since I've been a young black girl, I've known police to beat up my friends. I've known police to beat up my family. I have known police to unnecessarily harass people in my family. I've known police to stop and unnecessarily harass and question me for no reason and threaten me with their power that they could do whatever they want to me, and there's nothing that I can do about it. And this is a story I've shared with friends. I mean, this is an experience I've shared with friends. And this is from being, you know, when I was able to go outside, seven years old and shit, you know, police stopping you, where you walk into. You're a fucking kid. It's like, why are you even doing this?

[Mike Pesca]

To me, this was in Boston.

[Sam J]

Yeah. So that threat and that understanding of their power and how they can use and abuse their power is a very real reality to black people from a very early age, I would say. And so I think is a very reasonable fear for a black person.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think that post George Floyd, which is when the incident happened, it would be more present on the mind of a black person?

[Sam J]

I don't, I mean, yes, because the images are being, you know, driven and the conversation is being driven. So. Yes, but I, I would hesitate to try to make some direct correlation between the media and the fear because the fear comes from a life experience.

[Mike Pesca]

But before this is, this is honestly, as you asked the questions and it's done with good faith. I mean, I really am interested in the answer to this question. Do you think that absent the tremendous amount of coverage, and it must have been much more concentrated in Minnesota, even a person who lived that and knew that, for instance, if you were harassed as a 7 year old, if you were pulled over as a 19 year old, would you have been so fearful that, you know, you sort of broke down on the phone with your mom saying they're gonna kill her?

[Sam J]

No, probably not.

[Mike Pesca]

And I don't mean just you. Isn't it possible or likely that someone steeped in this media atmosphere would go from, I know this can happen, I got to play a cool and it.

[Sam J]

Sucks to of course, a real panic? You're literally just talking about how the brain works.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sam J]

So yes, yes, yes, that is a definite possibility.

[Mike Pesca]

And so then what should. So you had an HBO show. I'm going to make you the programmer, programming chief for msnbc, cnn, all of them. Should we change the amount of coverage or the type of coverage when it comes to police brutality?

[Sam J]

No, no, you can't change that until the brutality changes.

[Mike Pesca]

Right, but what about if there is an overemphasis of a bad situation?

[Sam J]

I don't know about an overemphasis. See, that's why it gets dangerous. You get what I'm saying? Yes, because a man was killed by the police in a very traumatic and fucked up way in. What is too much coverage on that?

[Mike Pesca]

Well, there's some, there's some amount of coverage that's too much coverage.

[Sam J]

I don't know. I don't know that I agree with you.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, like when LeBron James tweeted, you know, we can't go outside. This was after Ahmed Arbery, but we can't go outside without being hunted. And then he took it down. I don't know Maybe he took it down because didn't want the blowback. Or maybe took it down because he's like, okay, that's an overstatement of the actual situation.

[Sam J]

I don't know that I fully agree with you. That's fine that it's an overstatement. I mean, I would just say that you have to live the life of a black man to know what that feels like. Because being hunted is a very. You can scope that in a lot of ways. Right? Being hunted, I think comes under this umbrella of also just you living under this guise of being watched, of being not trusted, of being looked at as threatening, of being. You know what I'm saying? So to me, unless you've had that experience and had that experience because you have to understand, like they're afraid of our fucking children, our six and seven year old.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, like you said when you were.

[Sam J]

So unless you have had that experience, he may very well feel that way and he may be very right in feeling that.

[Mike Pesca]

We'll be back with a little more of Sam J. Just in a minute.

[Sam J]

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[Mike Pesca]

We're back with Sam J. Funny you should mention is the name of our series. We were chopping it up, then we took a little break. Now let the chopping resume. So let's go on to the episode of Black about black wealth, which clearly comes and you say you got, you've got some money and now you got to figure out, yes, why, even though you have some money, do you feel, you know, the money's not working for me? At some point I was told that my money is supposed to be making me money. I'm not there yet. It comes from personal experience. My Question is, do you think. Let's not. You know, there's a lot of generalizations involved in this question, but do you think it's more true than not that black Americans are getting bad advice or that they're just getting no advice at all?

[Sam J]

I think it's true that poor Americans aren't getting any advice at all, getting any information about money. I don't think it's particularly unique to black. Black Americans. I think if you get a bunch of poor white people in a room, you would have very much the same conversations about their ignorance of money and how it works and. And how it moves and how to make it move for you. And then I think there's people with access who. Who have been taught this very early because of their access and their privilege. And those people, some of them are black. I think more of them are white or. Or, you know. Yeah, white adjacent, but some of them are black. And I think, you know, that it is a. It's an information of privilege.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay. And I agree with you. In the show, I think a lot of the issues that were portrayed as black and white issues are also, or maybe can equally be portrayed as poor and rich or poor and middle class.

[Sam J]

I mean, there was also a class conversation going on in that money conversation. There was a class conversation going on in that conversation with the doctor. So I think as much as this show talked about black and white, again, it's all in my lens, right? So if. If that was my lens for it, that was the conversation. But sometimes my lens for it was class. Sometimes my lens for it was gender. Sometimes my lens for it was interpersonal. It was black on black or gay on gay. It just, you know, just like when.

[Mike Pesca]

You were the judge and the gay guy comes in front of you, you were like, get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here with James Baldwin at this point in my life.

[Sam J]

So, you know what I mean?

[Mike Pesca]

This is like, you know, I do with that episode. I thought it was very interesting because I was wondering. Here I am.

[Sam J]

Cause see, the money episode was never a black and white thing to me. But talk to me about your white money.

[Mike Pesca]

That's it. The punchline was always, tell me about how white people do this. Tell me about white money.

[Sam J]

That's my lens, right? In my lens, there's these white people that have this shit, and then there's me that doesn't. But the goal of that is that you see that it's just disparity.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, is that also because it's funnier, like it's funnier to say white. Tell me about how the whites do it.

[Sam J]

Truly how I feel, because that is.

[Mike Pesca]

But you're funny. You're a very funny person. Maybe your lens is inherently funny.

[Sam J]

No, but that's also my life experience. Scope. Right. Like, I think it really depends on how. How you grow up and what you see. I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts, with rich, blue blood white people. I didn't see a lot of black people and hardly any black people in true places of affluence. And it seemed to be in my world that the people who truly understood money and truly understood how to deal with money and manage money and move money are white. Now, also. Don't just put that on me. What does society show you? That the people who understand money and know how to move money are white? Who talks about money the most? Who talks about what you should do with your money? If you turn on fudgeing MSNBC and they're doing the money, who's doing that? Like, who? Do you see a lot of black people or heading these conversations? Right. You do not.

[Mike Pesca]

Right, right.

[Sam J]

So in scope, it seems like white people's secrets.

[Mike Pesca]

Right, the secrets. But I wonder, do you think that the information is not out there?

[Sam J]

I mean, to me, 100% is out there.

[Mike Pesca]

It's out there. So why is it. Why is it not getting through? Why is it getting through in a warped way where, you know, maybe someone who's looked up at. Looked at as the exemplar of how to deal with wealth actually doesn't know anything about it?

[Sam J]

I think because it's all just how information is filtered and given and what is put to value. In your house.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

And in your household.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. So here's where I come at it from. I am a little too steeped in, you know, what the Brookings Institution says or what, you know, economics Twitter says. And I know that, you know, not everyone gets perfect information, and I don't expect people to read economic studies. But in general, the general point of, you know, you should pay off your credit cards if you can, and you should put some money in an IRA if you can. And don't play the stock market or Bitcoin, put it in an index fund. I'm really asking myself, is that, like a privileged thing? Is that a white thing? I grew up middle class. I didn't. I did grow up white. Like, it just seems to me that that information is so ubiquitous, it's a little surprising that not everyone has access to that information. And if so, whose fault is that.

[Sam J]

If you have no money, if you really are growing up poor, so you grew up middle class, if you're growing up where your parents are living check to check, and they are basically just surviving. And then at 14, you get a job and they teach you how to survive.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sam J]

And they haven't had the access to this information because if they did, they probably wouldn't be living the way that they're living. Yeah, they had some understanding of this and truly how to do it outside of, you know, my mom took me and got me a passport, savings account.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

But when I talk about how money works, you know, I'm talking like motherfuckers who really get how money works, how it works, how to get compounded interest, when to move your money, where to move your money, at what times you should be. You know, there's motherfuckers who are dialed in. There's motherfuckers when a war starts, they're like, I'm going to invest in.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Sam J]

I know how to make my money make money right now. I know where to put it and where to go with it. If you've just never had a track or a map, you can't teach another person how to fucking do that. And if you're living in a community where survival is the priority and people aren't fucking graduating from high school at a high rate or whatever the conditions of your. Your, you know, socioeconomic situation is, then that's not also. That's not the focus in fucking school. The focus in school becomes like, how do we get these kids just graduated and off to a fucking. You know. So then this is not a priority.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay. I am worrying. I'm coming off as incredibly ignorant. I know. I do know that. But what I'm thinking of it from a policy perspective where what I want is it for not. What was the phrase you used? White people secrets. So we talked about the whiteness part of it. Could be rich people secrets. But the secret part, I don't want it to be a secret. I want this information to be out there. I think a lot of people, I think there's maybe.

[Sam J]

But I think even the information you have is like, I think you don't know shit.

[Mike Pesca]

That's probably true.

[Sam J]

You know what I'm saying? The information you have ain't shit. I know that information.

[Mike Pesca]

Maybe you're in a better. Or someone who grew up poor is in a better spot than me. They at least know. They don't know shit.

[Sam J]

I'm like, you don't know shit either. Cause These motherfuckers who I'm talking about, like, I want a Warren Buffett knowledge of money. Like, I want to know, like, truly understand what's backing my money, what that actually means. Like, because the money is just the paper, but what supports the paper? And then how does that fucking move? And then how do you know when to do what based on what things are happening and trends are happening, and how do you ensure there is. Motherfuckers, you could give them $100,000 today.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

They could tell you how to make that shit be $400,000 in two months. You know what I mean? I don't know. I don't know money well enough to know how to do anything. Yeah, but I don't know. But, yes, I could fucking put my money in.

[Mike Pesca]

You know, the IRA doesn't do anything for you.

[Sam J]

Sure, baby.

[Mike Pesca]

That's the sucker. That's the sucker's move.

[Sam J]

Yes. That. To me, that's what it sounds like when I hear shit like that. I'm like, so I'm keeping my money in the bank so the rest of you rich niggas could fuck it off and really do stuff with money.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think that. So in the show. I watched all the episodes of the show, and it is the. It is the tone of the show, and what happens is you have a question. You have a genuine question. And I think, I sense your mind changes oftentimes based on the information.

[Sam J]

Yeah, that was a goal that we set off when we made the show, that I want to go in open and I want to go in where my mind could be changed. I want to go in and sometimes be different on the other side. I don't want to go in knowing everything.

[Mike Pesca]

Can you change your mind through the craft of stand up? Is that possible? How does. How does information come in you.

[Sam J]

I mean, I'm not an asshole. I talk to people.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

So it's not like I just do my set and then I'm like, I am the most correct nigga on earth, and then I go home.

[Mike Pesca]

So how does. When. How does. When you're doing right. So it's the stuff that happens when you're not on stage doing the standup that changes your mind. But is there something. I mean, there's something about the actual execution of the pause on HBO that allowed you to change your mind. It wasn't just doing the research off camera. It was like the actual process enabled you to change your mind. I'm wondering if there's anything about executing standup comedy that allows that to happen.

[Sam J]

You're saying the same thing. It's just how you do the process. I'm a person who, like, I like to talk about this shit. Like, if I get off stage and a fan or audience member, he wants to come to me and talk to me about something that I said, I don't run away from that conversation. If they're like, yo, that shit bothered me, or I don't think that was all the way correct. If they're not like a drunk, raging asshole, I'm like, well, what bothered you? And they'll tell me, like, well, this and that. Or I've had this life experience that doesn't dictate that to be true to me.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

And I'm like, oh, well, what was your shit? And they're like, well, this was my shit. And I'm like, oh, wow. Like, well, this was my shit. But I never really heard someone say that. And I never really thought about, like, that. And all that stuff I take with me, you know, and especially when I'm growing an act or an hour, that all grows the hour. Like, I think that's the job. It's like, you're. You're a bit of a fucking, like, samurai, and you're going from town to town and you're pulling out your blade and you're getting into these battles. But with every battle, like, you learn something and you meet fucking the citizens of the town, and you might learn something from the warrior, and you go with more knowledge and more understanding of people and their different experiences, and then you add that to your. Your arsenal of shit, and thus it should grow and change.

[Mike Pesca]

Can you think of a specific joke, either in your current set or in your Netflix special, that came about because of one of these types of interactions?

[Sam J]

Well, you know, I have this joke about white people smelling like wet dogs. It's deeper than just the basics of what we know, but I say that. And then this white woman came up to me after this show, and she was like, yo, my mom washes hair. She was a hairdresser, and she was a washer. So, like, there's people at the hair salon that just wash people's hair. And she was like. And she used to tell me that white people's hair smelled like chicken noodle soup when it got wet. And I was like, wow. So, like, there is a smell. Like, I'm saying wet dog. Which I. In the joke, I'm like, I don't think that's right. I just don't know what the fuck the smell is. And you're saying chicken noodle soup. So, like, we can hone down that even white people are smelling a smell. But what the smell is, we don't know.

[Mike Pesca]

It's like one good.

[Sam J]

It's a range between wet dog and chicken noodle soup. But like, there's a smell. And that left me, like, sitting on the joke more and then feeling like, oh, I can incorporate this story so that it's not so isolating to white people. Like, this can add to the tapestry of this story. Because now I'm like, nah, baby. I've been traveling and I've had some conversations and white people smell it too. But it's rude to say it's a wet dog, though. You know what I'm saying? And so I think it's like that.

[Mike Pesca]

It's like, it's interesting as long as.

[Sam J]

You'Re, you're out here and you're engaging. And I think that's a part of it. Like, unless you're like a nutjob, you should be engaging, you know, at the end of the day, like, as long as someone's not crazy. It's like, especially the type of comedy I do, it's like I'm just, I'm playing a bunch of shit on people and I'm like, yeah, how? Think about that, you know? So someone earnestly is like, hey, I did think about it and I'd like to say some things to you. A reasonable person should listen.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, maybe the white people's hair thing. And by the way, I can't comment, but maybe that is like a Laurel Yanni or what color is the dress? I don't know. Maybe to different people. It's like, like I haven't.

[Sam J]

I thought about that too. It could just be smelling like different shit to different people. The whole premise of the joke is like, black people think fucked up shit too. And then I run three things that we think are fucked up. Like, we think white people's rather milky. We don't think you wash good. And the third thing is you smell like wet dogs when you get wet by the rain. And I'm like, but that one is the racist one, in my opinion, because I don't know that it's true. I just heard it so young, I don't know what to think. And I think that's how racism works. Like, I know I smell something. Yeah, but the wet dog part was the part that was implanted in my brain. That's not the thought I came up with. But once I smelled something different, I was just like, Wet dog. Cause that's what I was told. And I don't know that I ever really made a decision about it on my own. And I think that's how racism works. It's like you're just getting things implanted in you. Then you encounter a thing and they're like, black people are dangerous and wild. And then you walk into a group of niggas and they like, yo, nigga, ah. And you're like, well, that looks like the thing I was told.

[Mike Pesca]

Because you get the good reaction on it. Yeah. Do you know what heuristics are? Do you know this word? So it's, it's a fancy word for habits of mind or shortcuts of thinking. So there are a couple of heuristics that I was thinking about that the, the wet dog thing might be. There's the anchoring heuristic, which is there's one fact about. There could be a million reasons why something happens, but you just anchor and concentrate on one fact. And then there's the availability heuristic. Like, wait, that's weird. I don't know how to process this. And that thing that someone recently told you or first told you it's available, so you latch onto it. But yeah, you're right, that might exactly be how some racism works. Old school kind of. Bigotry, discrimination, race.

[Sam J]

I mean, I think it's the root of it. I think the root of it is at least I would say the racism that we're living in today, this is passed down racism where we are. You know what I'm saying? So I, I'm only looking at things relative to the scope we are in. I'm not saying in the past and like slavery. No, I'm not speaking to that. Saying the scope that we are in, where we are at this moment, living today, this is all passed down shit on both sides. Pass down ideas, pass down. This is what's happening. And I think a lot of times people are reactionary based on the shit they've been told.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sam J]

And that's just the space that they're coming from.

[Mike Pesca]

But it's also really interesting. Here you are trying to puzzle out, okay, where do these ideas, these bad ideas come from in the show? A couple of times I saw. I'm sure you did. You're in the edit bay. And it doesn't just happen once. You see it often. But I saw a moment where you talked about your mom, who obviously you love very much and did a whole special about her passing where she gave.

[Sam J]

You, talks about the Very end of the special. It was a whole special.

[Mike Pesca]

No, that's right. The special was named for her. Yes. Donna's daughter.

[Sam J]

The special was the album.

[Mike Pesca]

The album.

[Sam J]

The album was named for her, but it was about a bunch of. That album actually had nothing to do with her. And then the special. I talked about her at the very end. The album was just.

[Mike Pesca]

But here is, here's what I noticed that she would give you, I think, good advice. Maybe not. Maybe not. Mind blowing advice. Things like don't steal. And here you are years later saying, I feel like you made a sucker out of me. There were a couple of moments where even in the, even in the prison episode where you talk about what your mom said or how she acted, and it seemed to be very reasonable things, but here you are as an adult processing the truth of that and maybe wondering, you know, if she set you up for failure.

[Sam J]

Not necessarily set me up for failure, but did she believe in a system too much that wasn't real?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And so do you think she did.

[Sam J]

To some degree sometimes.

[Mike Pesca]

But is that. Do you think that's. It's helpful for a parent to have that mindset? Like, would you rather her tell you something aside from don't steal? Would you rather have her be one of these people said, you know, the world is corrupt. You go out there and get yours?

[Sam J]

Well, I also think you have to. You have. We have to gauge all this stuff in a real reality. My mother died when I was 16 years old.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

So I only got the lesson for the child. I never got the simple for the adult.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sam J]

So a lot of times when I speak about my relationship with my mom and the things that I understand, that stops at 16, you know what I'm saying? So I don't know if at 25, she would've been like, bitch, yeah, don't steal. But like, also, za, za, za, za, za. And just contextualized it more for me. But I was a kid and, you know, that was the right advice at the time, was just like, you don't do that.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

But, you know, you carry that over, then you start to think about the many ways there is to steal and how you're being stolen from and what does that actually mean? You know, your brains, you know, start to turn some gears and it's like, oh, well, maybe that wasn't the best way. And I, and I. Or, or at least that wasn't the whole story. But there are some times in my mom's life where I do think she really did believe, like When I talk about my brother going to jail, she did have this belief in the system that I do think was a little bit like, you can't believe in it like that. But I don't think any of us would have learned that without that experience. I think that experience also changed how she thought about things. But it was just like up until that point that thinking was working for us and then it just stopped working. And then thus you got to start thinking differently.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think the comic mind is inherently tied up with at least some degree of disbelief in the system?

[Sam J]

I think the comic mind is inherently cynical, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

But, you know, cynicism is just the belief that everyone is motivated by self interest, which is probably true to some degree.

[Sam J]

How can you not be? We all don't wanna die.

[Mike Pesca]

Imagine a non cynical or a totally non cynical comedian. What would that be like? What would that HBO show be like? I don't even know. So a couple more questions. One is, at one point in your show, you say, you know, you're talking about health care and the travails that you and your family went through. And one of the guys you're debating with talks about, well, what can we do with the community? And you say, freedom is the ability to not even give a shit about someone who you don't even know is suffering. Just freedom is the ability to go and get yours and not have to be so consumed by the community or some other people who aren't you. Is that. Go ahead. Is that your definition of freedom or is that just specific to that circumstance?

[Sam J]

I think it was more specific to that circumstance. And I think it was more specific to the idea that, like, as a black person, you're burdened with the whole black experience all the time. And there is some level of freedom, I think, whenever we achieve it as black America, to not feel responsible for every black person and their actions. You know, like, I do want to get to a place where I could turn on the news and a black person does something wild. And I'm just like, that nigga's wild, you know, And I just go live my life.

[Mike Pesca]

American turns out to be an idiot.

[Sam J]

Yeah. And I just go live my life. And I'm not thinking about how it reflects on the entire community, how it reflects personally on me, you know? That's what I mean by like, freedom is not having to give a fuck, but not in the sense of like giving back to your community or caring about your community or supporting your community or seeing places where things are suffering and, and helping, you know?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

But this idea that you have to be so attached in tribal because separating yourself from that is truly affecting your ability to survive this thing.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think we've made progress on that front or any of the other things we've talked about in general since when you were a kid?

[Sam J]

Of course.

[Mike Pesca]

So what do you do with that progress?

[Sam J]

Try to keep pushing it further.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And finally, are you going to vote this year?

[Sam J]

Yeah, I vote.

[Mike Pesca]

I don't like that. Is it because of the candidates or just.

[Sam J]

I just think it's dumb and I don't really think it's real. And I think it's like this big ruse that one day we're going to. I just think it's another lie that eventually will get uncovered to be this lie. And it doesn't really feel like a choice. It feels like people make the choice. And then it's like when my girl tells me to pick out furniture from the house. She's looked at a thousand pieces of furniture. She shows me four.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

You know, and she's like, out of these four.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

What you want? It feels like that. It feels like there's this other conversation that happens before the conversation gets to us. And then they're like, here is the thing. Pick from these.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sam J]

And then you've got power.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, it's true.

[Sam J]

I mean it doesn't. I don't feel empowered when I do it and I don't, you know, that was a youthful dumb idea that I had and I don't feel empowered when I vote. I'm not gonna lie, I just, I feel like I'm participating and I feel a bit like a lemming. But it's because I don't have all the information.

[Mike Pesca]

But it's because of the specific choices to some extent.

[Sam J]

Because I know I don't have all the information.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Do you really want to know about the other 996 couches?

[Sam J]

No, I want to know how it really works so I know what the fuck I'm doing.

[Mike Pesca]

Uh huh. You really do. You wanna know how the money system works, but you also do really wanna make the money that you really want.

[Sam J]

I want both.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. But sometimes you just would really like to know how the system works.

[Sam J]

I really wanna know how system works. I really wanna vote and impact. But I would like to know the game.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

I don't like not knowing the game I'm playing and I know there's a game and I know they're not telling me what it is. So that makes me feel used.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. I think Donald, some Of the appeal of Donald Trump was he essentially said.

[Sam J]

Trying to tell the game to you.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

That's why I've always, I've said this in many a stand up sets. He was kind of my favorite because he was too dumb to lie.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

So he was exposing the game.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sam J]

And it was like, oh, I'm finally getting a peek at what the the game is because then I can know how to play. But just blindly going out and voting. It's like his. I know there's a thing behind this.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. His actual description of the game, I think was way off, but he was at least the one, I mean, to your point, saying it is a game, it is rigged. I don't think it's how way off.

[Sam J]

It was because a lot of times he was like, they can't do shit to me for this and they couldn't.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Sam J]

And I realized a lot of the things that they were telling us were like these rules, they were just decorum.

[Mike Pesca]

But he didn't win the last election is my point.

[Sam J]

No, no, no.

[Mike Pesca]

That's the game. That's how he lied about the game.

[Sam J]

But I don't think that that was the game he was playing. He was playing put me in office so I could do what the fuck I want to do game. Right, right, right. I don't think he needed more than four years. I think he was like, if I only get four, I could get in here and fuck it up one time.

[Mike Pesca]

I don't think he wanted to get elected president as part of his game. He wanted to expand his brand, bro.

[Sam J]

But you get what I'm saying, Like, I don't think that was even the game he was playing.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Is it worse that you're being lied to or is it worse to live the consequence of those lies?

[Sam J]

I think it's worse out being lied to because being lied to is the first thing that takes away my choice.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, but it seems like you're doing well, right? It seems like you're achieving success, you have some of that money. The thing that's really, really making the things that's driving you is okay. Even now I have, quote, unquote success or real success. And you got a special coming up and you have these really good shows. You still feel like you're no closer to not being lied to, to being respected enough to get some version of the truth.

[Sam J]

Exactly, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And do you think other people are like that? I mean, I don't know. Well, I'm wondering if you're not. I know that you're not a voice of black people or lesbians or people from Boston who moved to Atlanta or anything like that. But do you think general, this is a sentiment that connects with people?

[Sam J]

I think if you outside the matrix. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. But what about this red pill, blue pill idea? Is that useful?

[Sam J]

I mean, to me?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Which one have you taken, if any?

[Sam J]

I like to live in the gray. So for me is very useful.

[Mike Pesca]

Sam J's new special is called Salute me or shoot me. Sam, thank you so much.

[Sam J]

You're welcome. Thank you.

[Mike Pesca]

And that's it for today's show. Cory Wara edited all of the video that we have of my talk with Sam J. Also if you want to watch Sam J. She's also on the upcoming the latest incarnation of the CNN show have I got news for you. And guess what? The host of that show, Roy Wood, he will be a funny you should mention guest. All of our funny you should mention videos are up on the Gist's YouTube channel. Link in the show notes to watch that. You'll see some of the clips. If you said to yourself I wonder what Sam J looks like now is a way that you can find out. We give that to you and thank you for that. Corey. Joel Patterson's the senior producer of the Gist. Michelle Peska is the CBSO of Peach Fish Productions. We had much help from Leo Baum today may have overslept after Halloween, but we'll allow it once for a 19 year old. But just once. Leo. We also would like to express our spirit. Special thanks to the comedy seller. Nicole Lyons engineered our session at the comedy seller studios. Noam Dwarman and Liz Farati. Special thanks to them as we continue our funny you should mention series with the Gist in the comedy cellar. Another episode in two weeks. Peru. And thanks for listening. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host, you seek it.

[Sam J]

Out and download it.

[Mike Pesca]

You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to libsynads.

[Sam J]

Com.

[Mike Pesca]

That's l. I B s y n ads.com today.