Podcast Summary: The Gist – "How to Make Crime Feel Weird"

Release Date: July 30, 2025
Host: Mike Pesca
Produced by: Peach Fish Productions

Introduction

In the episode titled "How to Make Crime Feel Weird," Mike Pesca explores the intricate relationship between societal norms and crime prevention. The discussion delves into recent events, media portrayals of crime, and an in-depth interview with Dr. Nick Cowan, a renowned criminologist. The episode underscores how shifting social norms can effectively reduce criminal behavior without solely relying on punitive measures.

Media Coverage of Mass Shootings

Mike Pesca opens the episode by addressing the disparity in media coverage between two mass shootings: one in New York City and another in Reno, Nevada. He critiques the New York Times' portrayal of the New York shooter, highlighting the newspaper's emphasis on Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) and its plea to study the shooter's brain.

Notable Quote:
"Delving into and elevating the motives of a madman... is never a good thing."
— Mike Pesca (00:03)

Pesca argues that by focusing on CTE, the New York Times may inadvertently be legitimizing the shooter's actions, drawing parallels to Ken Bellson's critical reporting on the NFL's handling of CTE issues. He contends that while the NFL has made strides in addressing head injuries, equating the shooter's motives to institutional critiques oversimplifies the complexities of individual actions driven by mental instability.

Interview with Dr. Nick Cowan: The Role of Social Norms in Crime Prevention

Background and Introduction

Dr. Nick Cowan, a British criminologist affiliated with the University of Lincoln and NYU, discusses his research on how societal norms can lead to significant reductions in criminal behavior. His work uses the successful eradication of drunk driving as a primary case study.

Notable Quote:
"Deterrence alone might not stop crime. Using the creation of norms to stop crime is essential."
— Dr. Nick Cowan (12:48)

Drunk Driving: A Success Story

Cowan outlines how societal norms shifted dramatically regarding drunk driving from 1980 to 2010. Organizations like Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) played a pivotal role in redefining drunk driving as socially unacceptable. This shift was complemented by practical measures such as the widespread implementation of Breathalyzers, which facilitated the enforcement of drink-driving laws.

Notable Quote:
"The invention and widespread use of the Breathalyzer... allowed us to catch people before they've actually committed a more severe offense."
— Dr. Nick Cowan (14:14)

Cowan emphasizes that combining enforcement tools with public communication campaigns created a tipping point, making drunk driving not just illegal but also socially deviant. This dual approach of deterrence and norm establishment proved more effective than punitive measures alone.

Application to Other Crimes

Expanding beyond drunk driving, Cowan suggests that the same principles can apply to other minor crimes. He cites examples like theft at self-checkout counters, where small, often rationalized infractions accumulate into significant societal issues. By altering the social perception of these minor crimes, similar reductions can be achieved.

Notable Quote:
"We can probably change an awful lot of crimes and prevent an awful lot of crimes by thinking about social norms."
— Dr. Nick Cowan (22:56)

Cowan argues that most offenders are not inherently immoral but rather conditional offenders influenced by their environment and societal expectations. By fostering norms that deem certain behaviors as abnormal, communities can effectively discourage these actions.

Deterrence and Norms: A Synergistic Approach

Mike Pesca elaborates on how deterrence and norm-setting work together to reinforce each other. He explains that while deterrence focuses on altering the cost-benefit analysis that individuals perform when contemplating a crime, norm-setting shifts the perception of what is socially acceptable.

Notable Quote:
"If you deter the action, it makes it more and more abnormal, thus reinforcing the message."
— Mike Pesca (19:00)

This synergy creates a virtuous cycle where reduced incidence of a crime further entrenches its abnormality in society, leading to continued decline in its occurrence.

Critique of Media and Societal Narratives

Towards the end of the episode, Pesca critiques how media narratives can misrepresent or oversimplify issues related to crime and societal norms. He references a New York Times piece by Glennis McNichol, dissecting her argument that contemporary society is simply recycling the cultural and social norms of the past.

Notable Quote:
"The same sentiment that everything old is new again... isn't a new phenomenon. It just takes on different forms over time."
— Mike Pesca (28:00)

Pesca argues that while nostalgia for past norms is prevalent, it often overlooks the nuanced ways in which societal values evolve. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the underlying mechanisms that drive changes in social norms rather than attributing them to mere cyclical trends.

Conclusion: Shaping Future Norms to Combat Crime

The episode wraps up by reinforcing the central thesis that altering societal norms is a powerful tool in crime prevention. By learning from the success of reducing drunk driving, communities can apply similar strategies to address other minor and potentially escalating criminal behaviors. Pesca and Cowan advocate for a balanced approach that combines enforcement with proactive norm-setting to create safer, more cohesive societies.

Notable Quote:
"Changing how we perceive and internalize norms can lead to significant reductions in crime without relying solely on punitive measures."
— Mike Pesca

Key Takeaways

• Media Influence: The way media portrays crime can significantly impact public perception and societal norms.
• Norm-Setting: Shifting societal norms is crucial in preventing crime, as demonstrated by the reduction in drunk driving.
• Deterrence Synergy: Combining deterrence strategies with norm-setting can create a more effective crime prevention framework.
• Broad Application: The principles applied to drink driving can be extended to address other minor crimes, leading to broader societal benefits.
• Continuous Evolution: Societal norms are dynamic and require ongoing attention to effectively adapt to new challenges in crime prevention.

This episode of "The Gist" provides a comprehensive examination of how societal norms interplay with crime prevention, offering valuable insights for policymakers, community leaders, and individuals interested in fostering safer communities.