The Gist — "Inside a Fat Camp named Shame"

Host: Mike Pesca

Guest: Kelsey Snelling, creator and reporter of "Camp Shame" podcast

Date: August 27, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode continues "Fat Week" on The Gist by diving into the story of Camp Shane, infamously known as a "fat camp" for children and teens. Mike Pesca interviews Kelsey Snelling, host and producer of the podcast "Camp Shame," which investigates the camp’s history, its weight-loss practices, the social and psychological effects on attendees, and the broader cultural conversation around weight, health, and body image. The conversation critically examines both the abuses at Camp Shane and the current ideological divides in the body positivity and fat acceptance movements.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction and Contextual Framing

• Pesca opens with commentary on the use of state power in politics but swiftly transitions to the core topic (03:00–06:00).
• "Fat Week" continues, with prior episodes featuring former FDA Commissioner David Kessler on processed food and weight loss drugs.

2. Origins and Operations of Camp Shane

• Founding & Mission:
  • Camp Shane founded in 1968 by Selma Ettenberg, herself overweight as a child, aimed to help kids manage weight and fit into societal norms (14:23–15:25).
  • "Selma herself was overweight as a child and as a teen, and she seems to have really created it out of a place where she was trying to help kids." – Kelsey (14:30)
• Camp Environment:
  • Located in Catskill Mountains, later Connecticut.
  • Campers had severely restricted diets and intense exercise regimens.
• Weight Loss and Business Model:
  • Children lost significant weight during camp but quickly regained it at home.
  • Repeat attendance was common, forming the backbone of the business (16:06).
  • “There was just no real world model where that level of weight loss is sustainable.” – Kelsey (16:41)
• Social Ecosystem:
  • Despite its problematic methods, Camp Shane provided a unique social environment for overweight youth, offering a sense of belonging (17:10–18:11).

3. Transition in Ownership and Decline

• Shift to David Ettenberg (the founder’s son):
  • Involvement grew in the late '80s, outright ownership in 1992 (20:47–21:00).
  • Motivation Shift: More hands-off and profit-driven approach; neglect set in (22:02–22:33).
  • “He was not really interested in running a fat camp... He took a much more hands off approach to the point of things eventually becoming quite negligent.” – Kelsey (21:37–22:33)

4. Documented Abuses and Ethical Failures

• Physical Plant & Staffing:
  • Facilities in disrepair despite high tuition ($10,000/summer in 2011); untrained staff (23:17–24:21).
  • “There was no training specific to the content of the camp.” – Kelsey (23:55)
• Fraudulent Medical Claims:
  • Camp falsely advertised on-site medical supervision, therapists, and nutritionists (24:21–24:49).
  • “They would have these big pictures and bios posted, but they were very careful in the language that they chose... Everything about the website insinuated that these people were on site, but they never explicitly said that.” – Kelsey (24:39)
• Neglect of Vulnerable Campers:
  • Admitted campers with known psychological issues without providing promised support (25:24–26:42).
  • “A lot of these kids had been on diet since they were six years old... And again, Camp Shane promised these resources that it just did not deliver on.” – Kelsey (25:51)

5. Kelsey’s Firsthand Experience (2011 as Counselor)

• Expectations vs. Reality:
  • Kelsey joined due to the camp’s misleading marketing about inclusivity and expert support (26:48–28:11).
  • “I really thought that going into this, we were going to help kids develop their body image... teach them those healthier habits... not weight loss at any cost.” – Kelsey (28:03)
• Turmoil and Recidivism:
  • Many campers returned despite past pain, sometimes by choice, often pressured by parents, driven by hopes of acceptance and societal thinness ideals (29:32).
  • “When you’re 12 years old... maybe you go to camp and you see all these red flags and you decide to return the next year anyway because that's how much being thin means to you.” – Kelsey (29:46)

6. Modern Critiques and Ideological Tensions

• Legacy and Societal Role:
  • Some former campers acknowledge short-term confidence gains, but most report long-term harm and entrenched body image struggles (18:11–19:00).
• Body Positivity & Fat Acceptance:
  • Pesca critiques the “health at every size” and fat acceptance movements for having valuable points but sometimes veering into anti-scientific ideology (32:32–33:09).
    • “There is a segment of the health at any size movement that frankly been shown to be medically inaccurate. It's become more of an ideology than a health perspective at times.” – Pesca (32:44)
• Social Stigma vs. Health Realities:
  • Kelsey and Pesca trade examples and studies on weight, health, social discrimination, and what “healthy” means (39:30–49:37).
  • “Obesity isn't a guaranteed death trap... health is weaponized against fat people to justify stigma... that's why the fat acceptance movement is so hell bent on talking about that.” – Kelsey (39:30)
  • Pesca pushes back, distinguishing genuine medical risk from social stigma and emphasizing both agency and compassion (40:22–41:59).

7. Debate: Can an Ethical Version of "Fat Camp" Exist?

• Potential for Reform:
  • Pesca: Could a modern, healthy camp—with real counseling and nutritional support—exist ethically?
  • Kelsey: “Anytime that there is a scale or a weight loss goal, I don't think in the society that we're in, you could do so ethically, especially with kids.” (54:14)
  • Consensus possible for a camp about education and community—without explicit weight loss mandates (54:44–55:18).
• Ideological Limits:
  • Kelsey: “Anytime there's intentional weight loss, that's going to cause problems. So do I think a fat camp can exist and be ethical? No.” (54:44–55:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the allure and harm of feeling accepted at Camp Shane:

  "That cycle just continued for years and years. There were campers who were there for a decade." – Kelsey (16:41)

• On society's changing understanding of weight:

  "What we consider fat in this country is absurd." – Kelsey (35:57)

• On unscientific weight loss expectations:

  "If diets worked, everybody would be thin by now. That's the bottom line." – Kelsey (42:57)

• On GLP-1s (weight loss drugs) and societal pressure:

  "Now there's more pressure on fat people than ever to lose weight. Because now if you see a fat person ... people feel emboldened to say, 'Hey, you're fat. Go on a GLP1.'" – Kelsey (46:19)

• Pesca on the limits of ideology:

  "The fat acceptance movement often goes much further and says things like ... there is no healthy way to diet ... I think that they have taken that too far." – Pesca (34:39)

• On the possibility of an ethical camp:

  “There were so many beautiful things about Camp Shane ... but any time that there is a scale or a weight loss goal, I don't think in the society that we're in, you could do so ethically, especially with kids.” – Kelsey (54:12–54:30)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Political Context & "Fat Week" Setup – 00:00–07:30
• Camp Shane: History and Methods – 14:09–18:11
• Model of Recidivism and Social Life – 16:06–18:11
• Ownership Change and Ethical Decline – 20:28–22:33
• Abuses and Fraud at Camp – 23:17–26:42
• Kelsey Snelling’s Personal Experience – 26:42–30:13
• Debate on Fat Acceptance Movement/Obesity and Health – 32:25–54:30
• Possibility of a Healthy Camp and Closing Thoughts – 53:16–55:28

Tone & Language

• Candid, personal, intellectually provocative, and consistently respectful even in disagreement.
• Pesca maintains a probing skepticism and reasoned approach; Snelling brings earnestness and nuanced advocacy.

Conclusion

This episode provides a layered, critical look at the history of "fat camps," focusing on Camp Shane as a microcosm for America’s struggles with weight, stigma, and health. Through the narrative of Camp Shame and a robust debate with Kelsey Snelling, listeners are given a view into both the personal toll and the cultural debates, leaving open the question of what an ethical approach to childhood weight and wellness might look like in the future.