Is Anyone Not A Fan Of Eileen Gu?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Gist — "Is Anyone Not A Fan Of Eileen Gu?"

Host: Mike Pesca (with Ethan Strauss)
Date: February 21, 2026
Episode Theme:
An exploration of the surprising positivity in American media coverage toward Eileen Gu, a Chinese-American ski star who chose to compete for China in the Olympics, and what this says about patriotism, media narratives, and cultural identity in contemporary America.

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Overview

This episode of The Gist features Mike Pesca and guest Ethan Strauss discussing Pesca’s recent Free Press article on Eileen Gu. The conversation dives into Gu’s unique position as an elite, American-born skier representing China, the lack of widespread criticism she receives in U.S. media, and how this ties into larger conversations about patriotism, media selectivity, and generational attitudes toward nationalism and China.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Eileen Gu Paradox: Talent, Image, and National Allegiance

• Introduction of Eileen Gu:
  • Gu is a Chinese-American skier born, raised, educated, and trained in the United States.
  • Despite her American roots, she decided to compete for China in the Olympics, garnering lucrative endorsement deals (estimated $12–15M) and representation as not just an athlete, but a cultural phenomenon.
• Positive Media Portrayal:
  • Major media outlets (NBC, New York Times, BBC) provide overwhelmingly positive coverage—rarely mentioning controversy.
  • Pesca notes: "She has seemed to suffer no loss of popularity in America. And a big part of it is the coverage." [18:06]
• "Is Anyone Not A Fan?":
  • NBC’s on-air commentary directly asked: "Is anyone not a fan of Eileen Gu?" [18:02]
  • Pesca’s response: "You might not know this, but yes, there are some people who at least question what's going on here." [18:58]

2. Media Criticism, or Lack Thereof

• The Dog That Doesn’t Bark:
  • Strauss expresses fascination with not just controversial figures, but stories that strangely avoid controversy.
  • "I'm fascinated by Taboo. And when people aren't getting angry about something, to me it can be as revealing as when they are just why? Why isn't this a cause for uproar?" [14:08]
• Who Actually Criticized Gu?
  • Most notable criticism comes from specific conservative personalities; mainstream media often filters it as “conservatives say this,” distancing themselves.
  • Pesca: "Some people came at me and said she's the most controversial... But she gets almost zero guff on any BBC, New York Times, and most importantly, NBC." [18:38]
• Gu’s Handling of Scrutiny:
  • She employs careful messaging centered around culture, family, and belonging, deftly sidestepping geopolitics and criticism.

3. Generational Shifts & Patriotism

• Changing Attitudes:
  • Both hosts discuss polling that shows declining patriotism, especially among younger Americans.
  • "To get angry at somebody betraying you, you have to have any sort of fuel... that there's something to betray." [29:47 - Strauss]
  • For many, cultural identity is more important than national allegiance.
• American Exceptionalism & Its Decline:
  • Strauss: "If everybody buys into the idea that this is a bad place, it almost does become self perpetuated." [37:52]
  • Pesca stresses that lacking patriotism can dissolve the very notion of a country as a shared idea. [37:52]

4. China, COVID-19, and Unpopular Outrage

• Why No Elite Anger at China?
  • Strauss posits it's a "xenophobia phobia"—an elite fear of seeming xenophobic shuts down criticism, even in the context of COVID-19’s origins.
  • "It is rather odd, isn't it, that there's not more populist anger towards China. What's up?" [24:05]
• Pesca’s Analysis:
  • Populist anger does exist, but is filtered by media elite who hesitate to legitimize any stance associated with conspiracy or right-wing rhetoric (e.g., lab leak theory).

5. Olympics, Obscurity, and the Allure of National Competition

• Winter Olympics as a Nationalist Event:
  • Both hosts note that, absent patriotism, the Olympics’ appeal—especially the Winter Olympics with its niche sports—makes little sense.
  • Pesca: "We do [care], because it's this thing called the Olympics and because flags are involved and countries are involved." [40:33]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Gu’s Marketability:
  • Pesca: "She's beautiful, she's well spoken, she's great at skiing, and she competes for China. So she has the 1.6 billion Chinese market to appeal to as well as the $300 million American market." [17:34]
• On Her Flawless Persona:
  • Pesca: "As good as she is at skiing, she's better at just being poised... You can't believe how great she is in an interview." [16:10]
• On the Absence of Outrage:
  • Strauss: "I love the dog that doesn't bark... I'm fascinated by Taboo. And when people aren't getting angry about something, to me it can be as revealing as when they are just why?" [14:08]
• On American Patriotism:
  • Strauss: "I think to get angry at somebody betraying you, you have to have any sort of fuel… that there's something to betray." [29:47]
• On Global Times Coverage:
  • Pesca: "China pays Eileen Gu to beat Americans. And then to argue that America is a beaten country." [32:37]
• On the State of the Country:
  • Pesca: "If you have a country that doesn't even care or believe about the country, I will suggest you don't have a country. A country is an idea." [37:52]
• A Dinner Party Strategy:
  • Strauss: "This is how I shock people, Mike, at a Bay Area dinner party, I just go, yeah, this is the best country. People go, monocles drop into champagne flutes. But then I go, okay, what other country's better?" [35:20]

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Important Timestamps

• 06:05: Conversation begins; podcasting banter
• 14:03: Switch to discussion of Pesca’s Free Press article on Eileen Gu and media narratives
• 15:23: Pesca’s full Eileen Gu explanation and background
• 22:44–25:13: The absence of elite anger toward China (re: COVID origins and geopolitics)
• 29:28–32:37: Discussion of patriotism, populism, and Gu’s reception in media
• 35:20: Strauss’s “dinner party” line about American exceptionalism
• 37:52: Pesca’s reflections on the meaning of country and patriotism
• 40:31–42:42: Debate on the purpose and continuing appeal of the Winter Olympics

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Tone and Language

• Frank, wry, intellectually curious—both hosts challenge prevailing narratives while maintaining humor and accessibility.
• "Responsibly provocative" in spirit, the episode mixes reasoned critique, cultural observations, and playful banter.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode uses the Eileen Gu phenomenon as a lens to examine the evolving landscape of American patriotism, media selectivity, and the geopolitics of sport. The hosts also reflect on what America’s muted response to certain provocations—from China’s global behavior to the Olympics themselves—says about generational and elite attitudes toward nationalism and identity.

Transcript

[Mike Pesca]

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[Ethan Strauss]

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[Mike Pesca]

Hi, it's Saturday. It's the Saturday show and by the time you're hearing this, we will know if Eileen Goo has qualified for the finals of her final event in the Winter Olympics. She'll she will qualify. She'll probably win silver or gold. She's won two silver this these Olympics. She's also won gold. She is the Chinese American skier who, who skis for China under the flag of China. And that you would imagine would get a lot of pushback. And it got a weird kind of pushback. I talked about it on the show. It got pushed back among conservatives and also among some liberal or mainstream commentators who would often filter the criticism as conservatives say this. But just as a regular American. I mean, I was saying, why am I rooting for this American who chooses to ski for China? I understand the economic considerations. Then reporting came out. She's getting paid at least 12 million, you know, maybe close to 15 million over the last couple of years by China to beat Americans and to sell to America the idea that you are a beaten country. We talked about all of this with my friend Ethan Strauss on his House of Strauss podcast, which I bring to you in a couple of parts. And then we go far afield. If you want to listen to the whole podcast, I recommend it. This is what we always talk about. Different issues, media issues, whatever coming up on Ethan's mind. He's a friend and a very good interlocutor. Enjoy, Mike. Once more on the House of Strauss. Let me tell you what hims can and can't do. It can't do the very difficult task in the bedroom of folding a fitted sheet. No one can. Science can't. Math can't. But what it can do is provide a solution to Ed. Ed doesn't mean your love life is over. It could mean you're just getting started if you get personalized treatments through HIMS and you could access personalized procedures prescription treatments if prescribed. They offer access to options ranging from personalized products to trusted generics that cost 95% less than brand names if prescribed. It's not a one size fits all thing. It doesn't forget you in the waiting room. It's your health and goals put first with real medical providers. Think of him as a digital front door that gets you back to your old self. To get simple online access to personalized affordable care for ed, hair loss, weight loss and more, visit hims.com thegist that's himss.com thegist for your free online himss.com thegist Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions and important important safety information. Actual price will depend on product and subscription plan so let me tell you about Claude. It is a miracle in your on your associated with your computer but also affiliated with you. So as you know, I do the Gist list where I scan the web for stories and I use Claude to build a tool that doesn't do it for me. There is discernment, but it puts choices from all these leading magazines and all these not leading but like trailing magazines where I find the best stories. And this was an amazing achievement that I couldn't have done without Claude. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move. Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. Claude Code is great if you're a developer or you're really good at what they call Vibe coding. Claude Code will vibe with you. Truly Agentic Coding this is Claude Code. It's not just another coding assistant. The frontier of agentic code handles product wide refactors while preserving your coding style and showing its work. It's really important to know why it did what it did. Ready to tackle bigger problems? Get started with Claude today at claw.AI/the gist. That's Claude AI/the gist. And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. Claude.AI/the gist. The Gist is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses. Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Welcome to the House of Strauss.

[Ethan Strauss]

Yeah, go for it. Stars hang with stars. Winners hang with winners. You have a funny story. Okay, I like those.

[Mike Pesca]

I sent you this text. Want me to send you a link in Riverside? And then you wrote, for some reason, short for when. And I was like, right now. And she was like, I can't, but in 30 minutes. And then I said, you know what? It's all right. It was a panic move because I was texting with Allison Schrager, who thought I was panicked and said, I need to do an interview with you because I was toggling between you and her on my text.

[Ethan Strauss]

Yes, I. I think you should communicate more like that. Like that crazed, incredibly Jewish producer from Barton Fink. I need to have a meeting with Ethan. I need to. I need to do a podcast.

[Mike Pesca]

I had to make a choice. Do I say, sorry, I meant for someone else, or do I make her think, you know, very interested in quickly doing an interview with her? And I chose the latter. And I think we both feel better about it, that she's wanted and I knew she'd be there for me.

[Ethan Strauss]

Oh, yeah. You know, I wanted to say this. Chuck Klosterman. Chuck did a delay on our initial interview for his book, and he was sick. He had a hacking cough. And he emailed that he was very much looking forward to our conversation and had to reschedule. Maybe he says that to all the podcast hosts. I don't know if he was lying to me. I appreciate it, though. It made me feel good. It made me feel good that he had been looking forward to our conversation. I was sure. Chuck. Yeah, we'll reschedule. Where? Whatever day you want. Summertime, doesn't matter. I feel flattered.

[Mike Pesca]

So he said not exact those words, but I got that vibe off him. But I'm willing to say I think he's genuine about looking forward to our conversations. And I've listened. I listened to both, and I think he liked both of our conversations. That I will say. Then again, I also think he liked Pablo Torre's conversation. I didn't hear too many he didn't like, but I only listened to the good ones.

[Ethan Strauss]

Well, I think with him, he's very earnest, and this. I think you've got to scout people when you have these conversations. You got to know your personnel. You're a voluble, lighthearted man of levity. I sometimes aspire to that. But I have to tell myself when it's closer. Men don't make jokes. Don't make jokes. He's not there for the jokey jokes. He's not going to indulge it. He's not going to suffer it. So whenever I feel a joke just coming on, I just kind of grab my arm in a close to min interview. Just don't make that joke. Don't do it. Don't do it. It's not. It's not his rhythm.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I think it could, you know, maybe I can't not make the joke. I will observe this about close to him and the sign of someone who's a little tough to interview is denying the premise. And he denies the premise a lot. He says no, I don't think so. In fact, his go to is almost to say no when he really means yes. But I don't just forgive him. I think what he's really trying to do is if you say something that doesn't exactly fit with what he thinks, he probably thinks it's like a violation of, you know, what is he. He's a person with ideas. So he doesn't want to sign on to an idea he hasn't really crafted. But I do notice that it's interesting. He did it with you. Me, Pablo. No, I don't think so. But then he comes down to actually agree.

[Ethan Strauss]

No, I don't think it's exactly that.

[Ad Voice]

No, no, no.

[Mike Pesca]

I think that. Yeah, exactly. He's not quite. He's not quite the Iglesias.

[Ethan Strauss]

I. I'm fascinated by him. And you would think, I wonder, because I cannot take him to a place of levity and I'm fascinated by accents. I want to know if he's got this Upper plain states accent that he just keeps in the car. That in the way that I have a San Diego accent, which I think is a less notable and less heralded accent that I could break out whenever. Does he have that? Because he doesn't have that voice that deep or that sort of thing going.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Ethan Strauss]

And is there another closer man? And he would never put it on display for us. But I want to hear that. If he has that.

[Mike Pesca]

I bet you One of his 11 brothers has that in spades.

[Ethan Strauss]

Sex, drugs and Cocoa Puffs also that sort of.

[Mike Pesca]

But I think the South Dakota one. So maybe not. The North Dakota one is almost. I've heard Nebraska and South Dakota are the ideal American accents. And there is that Fargo accent. But you know, Tom Brokaws from South Dakota and. And Johnny Carson's from Nebraska. So that accentless accent was at least at one point located right around there.

[Ethan Strauss]

Look man, I don't want to step on you, but Wikipedia says he grew up in a farm near Windmere, North Dakota. That's what it says. That man. That man should be speaking. The Fargo is what in my mind. I mean, I don't know if that's actually true. I've never been there. That was almost a big cleave point in my relationship with my wife. When we met, I wanted to write a book about the warriors then G League team in Bismar, North Dakota. I wanted to. I had this big romantic idea of going out to the coldest part of the continental United. Wait, no. Is it not the continental. The lower 48?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Ethan Strauss]

The coldest part of low lower 48. To see this bizar spectacle of G league basketball and these guys on the fringes of the NBA. My wife was worried I would go chase that dream because we just met and I think I made the right choice not doing that is what I would say.

[Mike Pesca]

I spent some time. I don't know how much time, but I went to a Sioux Falls Skyforce game and I think I did a story on the Sioux Falls Skyforce. I must have. It was when I was doing a reporting trip through Sioux Falls, so that was cool.

[Ethan Strauss]

Yeah, yeah. I. I heard plenty of G League story that were fairly depressing is what I heard. And I don't know if I. What I would have experienced in person. But you can only imagine, I mean some of these guys, the amount of weed they smoked out there just to get through it.

[Mike Pesca]

The, the. Just the difference from the Bay Area to North Dakota, what punishment. And the Sky Force now, when they were Continental Basketball association, when I did that. But they're the Miami Heat now. That is. Is unfair. It's like. Well, I know you really want to get to the NBA, but if you weren't properly incentivized by the riches, the women, the competition, here's this. You'll be living in South Dakota until you get there. Yeah, yeah.

[Ethan Strauss]

It's this story of the rise of Phil Jackson that he was willing to coach in Puerto Rico and demonstrated his commitment. But at the same time, that's Puerto Rico. It's not so bad.

[Mike Pesca]

No, but he was the Albany Patroons coach in the cba. That was the other. Yeah, the Puerto Rico was below the cba, but he was the Patroons coach.

[Ethan Strauss]

He's a famous North Dakota as well, isn't he?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's North.

[Ethan Strauss]

Yeah. Yeah. I remember the story in Halberstam's book about his recruitment as a college basketball player. Was sitting in a car, demonstrated that he could open both doors simultaneously of the car while sitting in it to show off the wingspan. That's how old school scouting was done. Remember so much from that book? Remember people would just die out from where Phil Jackson was when there was a traffic jam in the winter. Die in your car.

[Mike Pesca]

Just die.

[Ethan Strauss]

Perish in your car.

[Mike Pesca]

Thailand.

[Ethan Strauss]

It's insane. It's completely crazy. Oh, yeah. We're podcasting. We're podcasting about your excellent article. I appreciated your article in the Free Press, and I think one of the reasons it appeals to me, I love the dog that doesn't bark. Other people out there, they talk about dog whistles. I don't know if I'm that interested in the dog whistles. Kind of an overused concept, you ask me, the dog that doesn't bark. Because I'm fascinated by Taboo. And when people aren't getting angry about something, to me it can be as revealing as when they are just why? Why isn't this a cause for uproar? And your article in the Free Press is called why is Everyone so Nice to a Lean goo? And I had that thought. I didn't actually know how nice people were to goo, right? Until I read your article and then looked at the coverage. The coverage on NBC is this patriotic product. These Winter Olympics, it's glowing. To this skier who grew up in our country and joined China and had some incentives for doing so. But I don't want to step on the exposition. Can you explain, can you explain to people who don't know about goo what the to do with goo is?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I shall. I shall do that. I shall do the goo. So she also. I mean, we can. You can't get on us for making fun of or having sport with her name. She has. She has trademarked. I want to get this right. I think it's go. Go for the goo. I think that was it.

[Ethan Strauss]

Go for the goo.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. She's a great ski athlete. Next game skier. She does the big air. She does the. The half pipe. She does all the skiing, the crazy skiing. And she was very good at this at a young age, as many of these skiers are. She is an American in so far as she was born in America, went to school in America, trained in America, goes Stanford in America. Everything about her is American. Her mom is Chinese. A Chinese or was a Chinese national, perhaps is came to America, studied at Auburn, studied at Stanford was in finance and raised her daughter. Now she would take her daughter back to China. And Eileen Gu says, you know, 20 to 25% of my time was spent in China. I suspect that that is a little inflated. So she spent some time in China. Her Mandarin is apparently flawless. Seems flawless. Everything about her seems flawless. Because as good as she is at skiing, she's better at just being poised. And words like preternaturally. I mean, this is Blade Runner. Runner Replicant categories. You can't believe how great she is in an interview. And on my show on the gist, I played just a little bit tail end of a Q and A on the Today show. And I've never seen anyone so charmed. And how could you not be? She bats those eyelashes. She has perfect answers. She's, you know, objectively speaking, or I think of the free press. I outsourced my comments. Yeah.

[Ethan Strauss]

So he's the male reporter. Her. Yeah. Other people say she's pretty hot. I mean, I'm just bringing you the news. There's nothing. I don't notice anything. Everybody's just shapes to me. I just.

[Mike Pesca]

I had to. I think I had to quote Vogue. I would figure they'd know what good looking is. She is stunning by any and all standards, according to Vogue. Her chiseled features and naturally athletic physiques. And then I came in and said, she works very hard for that physique. Thank you very much, Vogue. But she's a Vogue cover model and a Time magazine cover subject. And she has an endorsement deal from Louis Vuitton, an endorsement deal from Tiffany and a bunch of other companies. And the reason that she's so popular is she's beautiful, she's well spoken, she's great at skiing, and she competes for China. So she has the 1.6 billion Chinese market to appeal to as well as the $300 million American market. And if you ask me, all this just competing for China should raise, no pun intended, red flags. I'd say, all right, maybe she's not as popular in America. Or her marketing team said, now you're going to be a little less popular than an American. But no, no. She has seemed to suffer no loss of popularity in America. And a big part of it is the coverage. And this is really interesting. Some people came at me and said she's the most controversial. All she does is get criticism. It's where the criticism's from and how the criticism is conveyed in places like Time and the New York Times. But she gets almost zero guff on any BBC, New York Times, and most importantly, NBC. And so after she ended and landed a trick in one of her runs, the NBC announcer said, is anyone not a fan of Eileen Goo? And I said, you might not know this, but yes, there are some people who at least question what's going on here.

[Ethan Strauss]

Yeah. Okay. This is subjective. I wonder. Okay. What's almost not subjective is that she's beautiful. She is. She's beautiful. But there's something a little.

[Mike Pesca]

By any and all standards, right?

[Ethan Strauss]

Yeah, by any and all standards. Something about her eyes is a little vacant and scary. I'm just throwing that out there. I'm not saying that I look so great or I look so none terrifying, but something. I'm gonna take a little screenshot, see if I won't screw up sharing it with you. There's a little bit of human, kinda, I want to say robot because then I sound like I'm at the Harvard admissions office denying Asian kids. But there's something, there's something about her, something about her that I find to be hypnotically, not completely there. Is that not terrifying, Mike? Is there something not terrifying about her vision?

[Mike Pesca]

You picked her men. You picked a particularly jokerish photo of her. I would say that. I think so. You. Let me, let me give you, let me send you the kissy face photo that she often does when she's not. That she knows how to do all the good looks. I, I think there is maybe something about the flawlessness of it that doesn't scan as beautif or approachable under the old theory of every. Every perfume that sells well has a tiny rotten note in it as Jennifer American Hustle. Right, right, right. Or, you know, we all know the, you know, asymmetry or the mole on. Is it Cindy Crawford? Yeah. So maybe there's something like that. And so she is flawless. But I think in terms of like actual athletes, she's not pretty for an athlete. I think she's pretty for a pretty. Yes, yes, yes.

[Ethan Strauss]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And she's not a good spokesperson for an athlete. She's a good spokesperson for a spokesperson. I mean, she's even better than Carolyn Levitt, I would say. Although she has maybe an easier lift, I think. Yeah. To analyze this, I would say a few things. There is, especially among younger people, such an emphasis on culture that the entire question of Eileen Gu's nationality or allegiance was subsumed by something that she always talks about and something that Chinese state sponsored media talk about, which is the acceptability of being both at once. You don't have to be all or anything. And they put this idea on America as wanting to be. You have to be all American or you're not good enough. And I think that especially among young people, the idea of cultural acceptance and celebration of culture and the specter that anyone would gainsay or get in the way of that is so terrible that she knows this and her people know this. But I think it's her at this point, she knows that if she just talks about what she's doing as an affirmation of her mother and grandmother's culture, that's going to get so much more celebration than anything geopolitical. And we don't like geopolitics is a bummer, especially to young people. And when you think about the Olympics, we don't want to think about it. But if there's someone who loves making sticky rice in a hot pot, which he does, who loves talking Mandarin and learning things about the Chinese culture and experiencing China, that's going to be so much more celebrated and overwhelm any amount of, well, don't you repress the Uyghurs pretty horribly. And didn't you choose to align with a state that crushed actual democracy in Hong Kong?

[Ethan Strauss]

Yeah. And she's getting that bag. That's something that people celebrate getting that bag. She's doing that. And I guess, okay, this is the dog that doesn't bark aspect of it. I think it's connected to this other question of a dog that doesn't bark, which is why is nobody seemingly in elite culture angry at China over Covid? Why is that a total absence? Because if I were to describe for you in 2019, what would happen? You would go, well, obviously in the aftermath of this, people would just be livid, livid with China over what happened. And this thing emanates from a Chinese lab and people are going to be. And that was indeed the fear at the very beginning, Mike, was it not? When Trump was calling it the China virus, the Wuhan flu, whatever he was, there is this fear that Americans would just marshal into a torch wielding mob chasing their Asian American brethren around the towns. And obviously nothing like that happened. And even beyond nothing like that happening, it just, I don't know, it seems as though, I don't know if it's like a xenophobia phobia we have in America. I think it's good we didn't chase people around with torches. For the record, I don't want people to be inordinately angry, but it is rather odd, isn't it, that there's not more populist anger towards China. What's up?

[Mike Pesca]

Well, I think there is populist anger, but there's not elite anger because to do so would be to endorse the lab leak theory, which isn't, it's, I would say it's far from the accepted theory. Among all the agencies that look at this, some of them have expressed with lower degrees of confidence that they think it didn't have zoonotic origins. Right. So there's a lot of decent enough analysis of where it came from that does say lab leak. And, but there's a lot of other, I think, non ideologically inflected analysis that says we do think it was, you know, more wet market, by the way. Wet market. Even if it was the wet market, you would expect some people to be upset that it did start in a wet market. Yeah, yeah, I think that.

[Ethan Strauss]

What are you doing with your markets? What's up with that? We gotta get, we gotta get those markets in order. Something, something's not going great there.

[Mike Pesca]

The other thing that, that's, it's very similar to when you're saying, why is there no anger at this? There is a certain kind of person who would listen to this conversation we're having and saying, what are you talking about? All she gets is criticism. And then they will say, Tucker Carlson criticized her. Will Kane criticized her. Another big one is Ennis Cantor, your favorite intellectual leading light. He criticized her. The Time magazine article said, well, Tucker Carlson and Will Kane, about three weeks later, New York magazine had to reach for anyone who criticized her. They just recycled the same criticism under I, I presume that the people writing those articles aren't actually reading the right wing media or watching right wing media, but they're reading kind of left wing media describing right wing media. And then there is, you know, a headline in the San Francisco Chronicle today is Olympic skier Eileen Goose says she was assaulted at Stanford, per report. This just came out now. And I think it's part of either it did happen or why is she talking about this? She feels like she's getting a lot of criticism. She is in her press conferences getting more attention in some somewhat hard questions, more than NBC is going to give her. So she's using these arguments of, you know, I've had to go through so much, look at all the, look at all the scrutiny I've gotten. But you and I are both looking and we know what scrutiny is. I mean, we know, we know how LeBron James, who has never betrayed America, gets so much more scrutiny than she does. And she is paid. So that's, it's not real scrutiny. Also, the Winter Olympics is a very condensed period. All the media she's going to do is sure in these two weeks it's going to be so much more than even more Naomi Osaka will do on average during any two week period, even Wimbledon, I guess. But that's an explanation. She has to do something to earn her $20 million. And what we found out recently was something is to get all these endorsements making her the fourth highest paid female athlete is like 23 million last year. But also this is very important. She's paid 6 million or so dollars a year by China. I mean she split it with a skater. But there's pretty good evidence that in 2023 she was also paid 47 million won, which is about $6.6 million. So she's made, you know, something, at least $12 million over the last couple years by competing for China. So that's a huge factor. Right? It's not just marketing and getting that back bag. It's getting the bag from the oppressive regime. The gist is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

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[Ethan Strauss]

but I think part of what's happening here when we talk about a why no why no anger? Why no anger towards China? It's because it's got to be related to a lack of patriotism here.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Ethan Strauss]

And you can look at any sort of gallup poll, any sort of tracking data. People say they're extremely proud to be American or very proud to be American. It's dropped precipitously. It was far higher for Democrats when Biden was president than when Trump is president. And it's conditional to an extent. It's going to be lower for Republicans when the Democrat is president. It's going to be the reverse, obviously, when the Republican is president. And it tends to stay higher, though for Republicans, I guess as a baseline on an equal footing, on an equal field, I'd have to go into the numbers. But the bottom line is it's down. As you're indicating with young people, this idea of patriotic connections seems to be less of a shared idea. And I think to get angry at somebody betraying you, you have to have any sort of fuel to you to the idea that there's something to betray. And even if we still have the Olympics and people watch them, that just seems to have fallen out of fashion, has it not?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, that's a really good point, especially among the young, among people of my age, without even knowing, because it wasn't even reported that she was getting paid by China. I remember in 2022, I was just confused why everyone was so inclined to ro, not as an ex games athlete, but as someone who chose China and like it's fun during the Olympics to root against your enemies a little bit and to root for your team. And if this is a person who could have been winning medals for America, she wasn't. This is before I even knew that state sponsored media used her example to denigrate America. And if you're not patriotic, I guess you don't care or you more or less believe in the points that they're making. But if you read state sponsored media, the Global Times, which is their tabloid newspaper, the People's Daily in 22, I'll read you some as the U.S. yeah, it's my favorite.

[Ethan Strauss]

They've got some good sports writing there.

[Mike Pesca]

People don't know the jumble is next level. The as the US Is engulfed by racial problems and rising cases of violent assault against Asian Americans are reported, outstanding athletes with Chinese heritage during the Olympics may send a ripple effect to US Society. The the US faces racism poisoned by extreme nationalism and some white people feel insecure when they see a sluggish economy and a divided society and such a phenomena will only fuel the country's racial issues. They quote some expert is saying. But here comes Eileen Gu to show that the that China wins in this competition. So this is why I Say China pays Eileen Wu to beat Americans.

[Ethan Strauss]

Goo goo, you racist. You get that name right now.

[Mike Pesca]

China pays Eileen Gu to beat Americans. And then to argue that America is a beaten country. And if you have not even a scintilla of patriotism, but also, and there's another point, a conception of an adversary or an enemy, like an actual conception that is outside the self, that thinks of things geopolitically, not just. I think they're a mean person who does a mean thing. This will, this will register. I don't, that's the other point. I don't think most 20 year olds really think of China as an adversary worth worrying about or fretting about or not even hating, but feeling adversarial towards. They probably think it's an old person's thing to worry about China, you know, beating the United States. Maybe they think the United States deserves to be beaten. Maybe they think the United States is no better than China. I'll find it. But the New York Times in writing up this, their version of the Eileen Gu story, which is there are some ambiguities about China's human rights record. This is the best they could do is ambiguities. They immediately have to say. Of course, the United States has also been criticized by Human Rights Watch. Yeah, it has. China is a nine out of 100 in the freedom House rankings of free societies. And the United states is in 83. Used to be an 87. Right? Be better if we're in 87. But it's not comparing like to like,

[Ethan Strauss]

I, I don't know who keeps these stats. I find it interesting that they're talking about the insecure.

[Mike Pesca]

I think it's Ken Palm.

[Ethan Strauss]

Okay, it's Ken Palm. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, I mean he can't have that much to do.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Ethan Strauss]

So much of his schedule has to revolve around March. He's got to have some other things opened up.

[Mike Pesca]

He's a weather guy is actually what he is. Yeah.

[Ethan Strauss]

Yeah. Well, I, I like them identifying the. Because I was wondering what that insecurity I was feeling as a white. And I guess it is about the sluggish economy. Yeah, I'm glad they identified that. By the way, later in our conversation, I do want to get into this rich topic that I think is good for you as a languageman of whether there is a white culture. I think that's a topic that's a, that's a meaty topic right there that I want to get into. Yeah, I guess it's just this feeling that nobody cares about anything anymore, Mike. Just every. No, it's just too much noise. There's too much stuff. And I wonder, is it important for people to be patriotic? Is it good for the youth to be patriotic? I would tend to think so. But I also know that in elite circles there's an aversion to that because a. An educated person should know that we're all people. We all imagine there are are no borders. Imagine whatever the lyrics in the John Lennon song are. And there's something so provincial about having a lot of fervor and patriotism, thinking you're the best. At the same time, I think this is the best country. I think I just happened to be born in the best country on earth. It just happened to happen. I didn't do anything to earn it. I feel as though some patriotism is well deserved by this nation. And when people chafe when I say that or I say I think this is the best country, this is how I shock people, Mike, at a Bay Area dinner party, I just go, yeah, this is the best country. People go, monocles drop into champagne flutes. But then I go, okay, what other country's better? And then there's a lot of Heman and Han, Mike. There's a lot of.

[Mike Pesca]

So anyway, they don't reach for the Netherlands or Denmark or Norway. I mean, Norway's got a pretty. I mean, it's very few Norwegians, but they got a pretty good empirical claim to it these days.

[Ethan Strauss]

Well, yeah, I mean, they could get creative if they were going into the conversation of the. Got a little prep. Yeah, but I'm Doyle Brunson at the poker table, putting a man to a decision. What's your country? What's your country? What is it? They wilts, Mike. They wilt under that pressure. I'll tell you this, I win every fake argument in my head. Mike. This is a very important thing about me.

[Mike Pesca]

You don't even have to be Doyle Brunson where there's only one winner and everyone else loses. You just have to. You just have to be engaged in a competition where you advance to the next day. Right? Which is we're a lot better than China. That's all in this conversation. That's all we have to prove. And of course patriotism is important. And of course I know there's a built in argument with everything that argues for patriotism. And if you say American exceptionalism, you could point, you could make that seem like you're just high on your own supply and you don't understand the flaws of America. And if you say patriotism, you could make it seem like we're ignorant of the sins of America. And then you could talk about, you know, America, warts and all. Just like during the toxic masculinity phase. We talked about masculinity, warts and all, but really all we were talking about was all warts. Right. So I'm not in favor of whitewashing or getting away from any of the sins of the past, but if you have a country that doesn't even care or believe about the country, I will suggest you don't have a country. A country is an idea, you know. Yeah, sometimes they're islands, but like why does North Dakota stop at Canada? Because the idea of a country says it does.

[Ethan Strauss]

Yeah, I used to drive a Ford Escort 1997 station wagon and I was really happy about that when I was a teenager. But then at a certain point, at a certain point I realized that my car was just sorely out of date. Laughably so. I drove that damn thing for nearly 15 years and by the end of the day I was not treating that car well. I was leaving all kinds of mess in the car. If you believe you have something nice, then you're going to more ardently upkeep it. If everybody buys into the idea that this is a bad place, it almost does become self perpetuated. I'm not saying that we should ignore problems. I always say, hey, NBA, fix this, fix that. You know, talk about problems, you should, you should, should do better. But I think there will be something lost if there's not an inculcated sense of hey, this place pretty great. Pretty great overall.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And that's the answer. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say. And that's the answer. I. We shouldn't expect athletes have these perfect answers. And Kat Rosenfield wrote a good article that was provocative. Why do we even ask these athletes these questions such that they could denigrate the U.S. i mean, we asked them for their opinion and we're upset when we hear it. But it's seems that these athletes, and I don't even know, I didn't know the names of any of the, these athletes who gave these negative opinions about the United States. But given their, given their age, demographic milieu, all that, it doesn't surprise me. But the answer is, while I'm disappointed in America, if you really want to go there, while these parts of America I think are a violation of our true spirit or what we really are about, that's just the point. Like I have this sense in me of what we're really about. And right now, in some ways, we're not living up to the ideals. But that's why I'm here proudly competing for America because of this notion of what we're really about. We have ideals about things like not shooting innocent people who protest ice. To take one, that's a flashpoint right now.

[Ethan Strauss]

Well, I am pro America, but. And this is something I'm wrong about, we all have opinions we're wrong about. I think the Winter Olympics is stupid as an idea. And clearly I'm wrong. I'm clearly wrong. I saw that the NBA lead in for the All Star game was 27 million people watching curling or whatever, and I went, oh, my God. I didn't know that many people. I were watching what is in my mind the fake Olympics. But I'm wrong, Mike, I'm wrong.

[Mike Pesca]

You are.

[Ethan Strauss]

Everybody else is into this and I.

[Mike Pesca]

And patriotism is part of it, right? Because if we just loved ski slope skiing, there's plenty of that during the X Games or whatever. I mean, if I, if the Olympics didn't exist. And I said, all right, here's the pitch. I'm going to take the version of an event that is very important and goes back millennia, and I'm just going to carve out all but the events that you can only do on ice or snow. That's. That's requirement one. And this will constitute, you know, hockey, ice skating, the 9th, 23rd, and then like 200th and 800th most popular sports. I'm going to package them all together. And I said to you, of course, how will this. Yeah, how will this fly? You would say this would do terribly in the ratings. There is no chance that anyone would care. But we do, because it's this thing called the Olympics and because flags are involved and countries are involved. And also I also think it's true that if, if there are plenty of obscure sports that we don't watch, but if we were kind of compelled to or had a nationalistic reason to, we'd find goddamn interesting. Like, I think biathlon and Nordic Combined are super interesting and really hard to do and maybe silly because especially as a San Diegan, you didn't grow up with skis. But they argue. I think they make a good argument for themselves.

[Ethan Strauss]

It could be argued that the Winter Olympics is the most Olympic of the Olympics based on what you're saying, because it embodies this whole. Let's take the most obscure thing you ever thought of and take somebody who's in utter obscurity and make them a sudden sensation. And the Winter Olympics, frankly, has more sports nobody plays. And so there's an appetite for that. I secretly scoff at it and go, why did we make an entire Olympics for winter when a majority of these sports are played inside anyway and you can just have them in an arena setting. But again, I am wrong. The people have spoken.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, if you were starting, if the Winter Olympics didn't exist and you just had all the sports in the Summer Olympics and maybe some winter Games in there too, like maybe hockey, ice hockey. And then you said, all right, we're going to slice off. We're going to have a theme around a different type of Olympics. You know, it's one tenth of what's going on here. What's our theme going to be? I think you'd come up with, well, the water Olympics. Right? Swim everything in a pool. That would be a natural Olympics. And then could have the equipment Olympics and they could have the team sport. There'd be so many things you get to before. Wait, wait, I got, I got one. The snow Olympics. And then everyone in most of the world's country is like, we don't have snow. Next foreign. The Gist is produced by Cory Wara, who, you know, has to put up with some different, different things in his threat matrix from time to time. Jeff Craig runs our social media. Kathleen Sykes runs the Gist list booking by Ben Astaire and company. Michelle Pesca calls the shots from the top at the Gist. Oomproo G Peru du Pru and thanks for listening. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great.

[Ethan Strauss]

You love the host.

[Mike Pesca]

You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today. Ready to buy a car, a home, or just want to take control of your money? Your FICO score matters and 90% of top lenders use it to make decisions. Check your FICO score for free. Today without hurting your credit card score. Visit myfico. Com free or download the MyFico app today. MyFico gives you the score lenders use most, plus credit reports and real time alerts to help keep you on top of your credit. Visit myfico. Com free and take the mystery out of your FICO score.