J Schuberth: "I'd Settle for Number Two"

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Gist

Episode: "J Schuberth: I'd Settle for Number Two"
Date: May 19, 2026
Host: Mike Pesca (Peach Fish Productions)
Guest: Jay Schuberth (“Pencil”), Education Advocate and Satirical Gubernatorial Candidate

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Overview

This episode features an incisive, often humorous conversation between host Mike Pesca and education advocate Jay Schuberth, who has donned a giant yellow pencil costume (“Pencil”) to raise awareness about Oregon’s last-place ranking in fourth grade reading. Schuberth is mounting a satirical yet passionate campaign as a write-in candidate for Oregon governor to spotlight the state’s literacy crisis and to challenge both political complacency and ineffective education policy. The tone is witty and irreverent but grounded in deep concern for education reform and accountability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Oregon’s Education Crisis and “Pencil” Candidacy

• Schuberth’s advocacy roots:
  • Seven years as an education advocate; previously a professor in education.
  • Shocked by Oregon's continued decline, now 50th out of 50 in fourth grade literacy.

    “Last year when Oregon's scores came out and we were 50th out of 50 in fourth grade literacy … there was dead silence … And that’s when I said, I think it’s time for Pencil to run for governor.” (12:29)

• The pencil costume as political critique:
  • Created for visual impact, emphasizing the state's literacy issues.
  • Costume details: six feet tall, yellow, expressive eyebrows and glasses, yellow Converse shoes.

    “I am a six foot tall pencil from my Converse, my yellow Converse shoes at the bottom to the top of my pointy head. … the eyebrows move as well.” (13:16)

2. Campaigning & Voter Engagement

• Campaign events: farmers markets, outside GOP debates, direct engagement with parents and teachers.
• The flyer: On one side, Pencil’s image; on the other, the stark statistic about Oregon’s rank.
• Reactions span disbelief to frustration; many parents indicate personal struggles with schools.
• Pencil hands out actual pencils as campaign swag.
• Addressing confusion: Write-in campaigns instruct voters to use a pen for their ballots (not an actual pencil) to avoid disenfranchisement.

  “We got into a little bit of not trouble, but we have to say write in pencil but use a pen because we don’t want to disenfranchise people.” (16:49)

3. Tabulating Write-In Votes & Systemic Obstacles

• Oregon only publicizes total write-in counts, not specific names unless counts are overwhelming.
• Schuberth can request county ballots and attempt OCR tabulation.
• Joke on semantics: "write in pencil"—noun vs verb (17:00)

4. Critique of Political Establishment

Democrats (Tina Kotak, incumbent governor):

• Schuberth is deeply critical of the Democratic establishment for years of inaction and resistance to proven reforms.
• Oregon’s “blue state” identity masks recursive failures:

  “[Scores] have been going down for years. This is a pre-pandemic issue … at the feet of the Democratic establishment … For four years, advocates have brought to [Kotak] … people in from Mississippi, North Carolina … and they said, no thanks, we’ll do it the Oregon way. And the Oregon way means you’re 50th.” (17:39)

Republicans:

• Republican candidates offer hollow or vague education promises (“Mississippi Miracle” is mentioned only once).
• General lack of substantive policy proposals.

Wider critique:

• The “Oregon Way” (focusing on student/teacher feelings and context rather than structured reading instruction) is contrasted with the “science of reading”—a data-backed, phonics-based approach.

  “What does work is the science of reading … those states [that stick with phonics] are more Republican conservative states in general. And it takes an actual recognition … that we’ve been doing it wrong in blue states to correct.” (19:00)

5. Systemic and Policy Factors

• Department of Education & Local Control: Oregon’s decentralized school structure (197 school districts, little state oversight) frustrates reform.
• Colorado as a Reform Example: Passed a weak bill (suggestions, not mandates), and only saw results after a decade (when changes were required, not suggested).

  "Oregon likes to pass bills that are suggestions. … Guess what? That didn't work. So 10 years later they came back and then they started mandating things and now they're seeing results." (26:37)

• Need for accountability, training, funding targeting high-poverty schools.

6. Teachers Union Dynamics

• Oregon’s teachers union (OEA) is among the most powerful in the US, often stymying reform efforts.

  “Oregon … has the second … most powerful … teachers union in the country. … The largest group that has been against … the kinds of changes we're talking about, they've come out publicly and said they're not interested, is the Oregon Education Association.” (29:03)

• Union claims of academic freedom and “local control” used to resist mandates for evidence-based literacy instruction.
• Distinction between union leadership & rank-and-file: Many teachers privately support reform but are reluctant to oppose the union openly.

7. Lessons from Other States & Politics of Reform

• Mississippi’s top-down reforms and funding focus for low-income students.
  • Oregon, by contrast, is “48th most regressive” in funding high-poverty schools.
• Colorado’s eventual progress through mandates rather than suggestions.
• Hope for change comes from recognizing the “fixability” of the literacy problem.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the campaign’s goal:

  “People ask me what do I want and Pencil would love if we were number one in education, but I'd settle for number two.”
  — Jay Schuberth [21:42] (episode title reference; classic pencil/number two pun)

• On state complacency:

  “This is at the feet of the Democratic establishment … the Oregon way means you’re 50th, might want to look for a different way.”
  — Jay Schuberth [18:41]

• On policy lessons:

  "Kids can't wait. ... That's 10 years of those kids that were in the other districts that were unlucky and their teachers didn't ... their principals weren't interested ... that's not fair."
  — Jay Schuberth [28:50]

• On the limits of academic freedom:

  “That'd be like saying to a doctor, well, what if a medical school was teaching the four humors and using leeches? And they were like, oh, academic freedom.”
  — Jay Schuberth [32:13]

• On aspirations for change:

  “If we simply get people to go, wait, we’re 50th … and the second thing is we want people to know that this is not kids’ fault, it’s not teachers’ fault, it’s not parents’ fault. There’s actually a systemic problem. … And the last thing is that we can fix this, that there are models.”
  — Jay Schuberth [33:07]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:10–10:30 – Introduction, context, and political headlines.
• 11:05 – Introduction of Jay Schuberth (“Pencil”).
• 11:38–13:55 – Schuberth describes the origins and symbolism of Pencil.
• 14:00–15:17 – Outlining the campaign routine and public responses.
• 15:24–16:40 – Practicalities and quirks of the write-in campaign (“write in pencil but use a pen”).
• 17:24–18:41 – Critique of Democrats, the “Oregon Way,” and literacy failures.
• 19:00–21:21 – History and philosophy of reading instruction in Oregon and blue states.
• 21:42 – “I’d settle for number two” (memorable line).
• 22:07–24:44 – Schuberth’s personal and professional journey into advocacy.
• 25:20–26:37 – Discussion of party primary rules and the spoiler effect.
• 26:37–28:50 – Lessons from Colorado and the partisan politics of reform.
• 28:56–32:17 – Teachers unions’ power and their stance on reform.
• 32:59–34:04 – What success for the Pencil campaign would look like.

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Additional Memorable Exchanges

• Pesca and Schuberth’s pun-laden banter (“number two,” “get the lead out,” “sharpening”).

  “I’m wondering if you hope to come in number two on the ballot.” — Mike Pesca [21:38]
  “I’d settle for number two.” — Jay Schuberth [21:42]

• Satirical realism on political prospects:

  “Jay Schuberth is pencil and they hope to be the ruler of Oregon, though it probably won’t happen.” — Mike Pesca [34:04]

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Tone and Style

Pesca maintains an irreverent, witty, and engaged style, interspersing puns and humor with pointed, specific policy critiques. Schuberth as “Pencil” oscillates between tongue-in-cheek (leaning into the costume’s absurdity) and deeply earnest advocacy for students and education reform.

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Conclusion

This episode leverages satire to illuminate Oregon’s dire literacy rates and the political, institutional, and cultural barriers to reform. Schuberth’s “Pencil” campaign is less about winning votes than about forcing an overdue public reckoning with educational failures and promoting evidence-based, actionable solutions. Pesca’s platform provides an ideal venue for this blend of provocation, wit, and urgent policy discussion.

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Transcript

[Jay Schuberth]

Foreign

[Mike Pesca]

It's Tuesday, May 19, 2026, from peach fish Productions. It's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, acting in the interests of his former private client Donald Trump, was on Capitol Hill today. He was asked some tough questions about the $1.8 billion, really 1.776 billion dollar fund that the government that is us is going to pay Donald Trump and friends for his being inconvenienced by the investigations that did lead to a couple of grand jury indictments, but no prosecutions federally because judges slow walk them until the Supreme Court thwarted them. The man deserves his compensation, Blanche said. Oh, this fund is just like past funds. But his senator, Chris Van Hollen noted, no, it's not.

[C]

Let me, let me ask you this, because you compared it to the Keeps Eagle case, but I think you know full well that in that case the settlement agreement was approved by a federal judge, including the payments to people who were not originally parties to the lawsuit. No federal judge has approved this fund, have they, Mr. Attorney General?

[Mike Pesca]

No. No federal judge did approve this.

[C]

So that's a big difference between this case and the case that you compared it to.

[Mike Pesca]

No, it's not.

[C]

Did a judge sign off on this case?

[Mike Pesca]

No.

[C]

A judge did sign off on the other one.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. But your question was whether it's a big difference. It's not.

[C]

Of course it is because that allows for an independent person to look at it rather than the.

[Mike Pesca]

There was no independence. There was no independence. There was a single commissioner that a judge signed off on it. A judge had, Mr. Attorney General, the money.

[C]

There was a judge who looked at it and signed off on it. So to compare that case to this one is incredibly deceptive.

[Mike Pesca]

Also, the issue might be proud boys and others who beat up cops on January six could get some money from this fund. Will they be excluded? Well, no, but Blanche, I want you to know, does have concerns about that. He says again, the answer, no, not excluded. Also, after the hearing, someone noticed it was in fact Politico. Notice this notice posted. The Justice Department on Tuesday expanded the just announced settlement of President Donald Trump's lawsuit over the leaking of his tax returns to include a pledge that the IRS will no longer pursue any claims it may have against Trump, his family members and his companies over unpaid taxes. Some phrases in there were forever borrowed and precluded pursuing examinations of Trump quote related or affiliated individuals. The waiver specifically encompasses tax returns filed before the effective date, which was yesterday. So what happened was Trump was suing the IRS for $10 billion, which means he was suing us. He dropped that suit as a procedural gambit because that suit required the approval of a judge and judges outside his circle of appointees. And then he got his weaponization fund approved by his appointees slash lackeys. I guess there was some unfinished business with that fund. Therefore we get the conveniently announced they're no longer going after him for past IRS debts. And so when Blanche went up to Capitol Hill to testify, he was indemnified from past audits. This is in case you were wondering, some real penny anti tin pot dictator stuff. I think it won't help Trump politically at all. But I also think you don't care. He is checked out politically. He's just grabbing with both hands at this point. History will most likely regard him as a failed president with an enormously successful pension scheme. On the show today. Well, on how to the other show I do, it's how to coach your kid. A soccer dad gets advice from a professional goalie. Stop it, correct it, coach it. And then, you know, let him have fun with it. And then by then, if you're not at 45 minutes, you didn't do enough water breaks. The secret, as in almost everything is hydration. Certainly the secret for our upcoming how to how to become a wine snob. But first, on this year's show today, a spiel on the lure of the li rr. But not the lure. But first, she is Jen Subarth. But forget that name. Just remember that she is pencil, A pencil, a large yellow pencil who is campaigning in the state of Oregon to become governor. It all makes sense. Jay Schuberth noticed that Oregon was last in fourth grade reading. And so she done the pencil outfit and asked people to write her name in, which, as we find out in the interview, must actually be done in Pennsylvania. Jay Schuberth, I. E. Pencil Oregon governor candidate. Up next, Ever notice how the second you Google something, every ad you get is about that thing, banner ads and they chase you all around. And if the thing that you were googling is not something maybe that defines you, you don't want that. You definitely don't want that. Or try to watch something when you're traveling and that thing is just blocked. There are so many ways that the Internet, this miracle of communication is less than a miracle and less than open. And that's why I started using Proton vpn. This content isn't available in your region. Well, there are no regions with Proton vpn whether you're traveling or just at home. And you don't want your online activity following you all the time. That's your activity. Proton VPN takes the power back and gives it to you. It adds a layer of protection that keeps your browsing habits private. Unlike most VPNs, Proton is backed by strong European privacy laws and years of expertise, creating safer, faster and more open Internet for everyone. 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Get 15% off your first order at true work.com with code the gist that's T R U E W E R K.com code the gist true Work Built like it matters, because it does. We all need advice, but it's not always clear who to ask. Even in 2026. Enter how to the longstanding advice show and Ambie Award nominated Best Personal Growth Podcast. That's back with new episodes and a new host. And that host. Here's the reveal. It's me, Mike Pesca. Each week I tackle a listener question ranging from travel to finance to relationships and beyond, with help from world class experts who actually know what they're talking about. Think of it as eavesdropping on someone else's therapy session without the copay or awkward silence. No question is too big or too specific. Some topics how to protect the elderly from scammers, how to take psychedelics therapeutically, and of course, how to immigrate to the Netherlands as a throuple. You've got questions. We'll find the answers. So follow how to with Mike Pesca on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oregon's primaries for governor are today. On the Democratic side, the incumbent, Tina Kotak, she'll sail through. On the Republican side, well, it's kind of a race, I guess. A former governor, Chris Dudley, who I identify as a former New York Knick, but in Portland they'll tell you he's a former Portland trailblazer. He's either in second or third. And the leading candidate, a Christine Drazen, is a MAGA aligned.

[Jay Schuberth]

Hmm.

[Mike Pesca]

Person. Human being. And I say human being because there's Someone else not on the ballot, but could be on the ballot if you write them in. And that being is Pencil, an anthropomorphized pencil who is running for the governorship or at least the nomination. You do have to write Pencil in. And there's pretty much no chance that it will actually count in any meaningful way. But, and this, this is, I swear to God, the first time I'm going to make this punishment. Pencil is making a point. Hello, Pencil.

[Jay Schuberth]

Hello. Thanks for having me.

[Mike Pesca]

Jay Schuberth is Pencil. Why did you decide to run as Pencil?

[Jay Schuberth]

So I've been an advocate here in Oregon for literacy and education quite seriously for seven years. I was a professor in education before that. But advocacy is many things, but one of the things it is is frustrating. And you know, you go down and you go to four hour meetings and you listen and then they tell you the same thing. And so when I would be with my advocate friends, every once in a while I would joke and I would say, I'm going to have to run for governor as a pencil. And so last year when Oregon's scores came out and we were 50th out of 50 in fourth grade literacy, and I'm assuming most of your listeners know that there's only 50 states.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, there's 51, including D.C. they sometimes count.

[Jay Schuberth]

D.C. yeah, we're not going to count that. We're last. So when we came out as last, there was dead silence from everyone from the Oregon Governor, Kotak from the top, the Department of Ed, the teachers union, anyone that you would think would go, oh, we have a problem. Silence, nothing. And that's when I said, I think it's time for Pencil to run for governor. And I went out and bought a lot of duct tape and some fabric.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Describe the outfit.

[Jay Schuberth]

So for those listening, she's holding up,

[Mike Pesca]

she's holding up the pencil point, which is, which has glasses and really nice eyebrows. Distinct eyebrows. Great.

[Jay Schuberth]

The eyebrows move as well. I'm sorry that people won't be able to see this, but I can, you know, change.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah. So it is. I am a 6 foot tall pencil from my Converse, my yellow Converse shoes at the bottom to the top of my pointy head. And I have a face which is, you know, has eyebrows and everything and

[Mike Pesca]

black glasses and a mouth. And do you turn it into a frown if the person says, I'm not voting for you?

[Jay Schuberth]

No, I say, this makes me sad when people say things like, wait, we're 50th, how is that possible? But that explains why my kid isn't learning to read. And then I say, oh, that makes me really sad. And it does. Inside and outside.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. So tell me about what kind of campaigning you do. What's your usual campaign schedule?

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah, so the primary season. So we have mail in ballots. Right. And so people started paying attention about two weeks ago when they got their ballots, but we started about a month before that. So for the past six weeks, I have been going out to, well, Pencil has been going out to farmers markets. And I did go to the outside, the GOP debate, but I was sort of pushed to the edge. It was fine. Had some good conversations on the edges of a parking lot and just talking to people and going up to them. And what Pencil looks like in, out in the wild is I, I have to have a human with me for safety. My peripheral vision is a little low. But. But walking up to people with a flyer and what the flyer says is on one side it's got a cute little picture of Pencil, and on the other side it says Oregon is 50th out of 50 in fourth grade literacy. And when people see that, there's either, oh my God, what that can't be, and they engage or they start telling me, yeah, I know, and I'm pulling my kid out of school, or yeah, I know, I'm a teacher, let me tell you. Or yeah, I know, I'm a principal. So people are really resonating with pencil. And of course, everyone wants, you know, I have, I give out pencils too.

[Mike Pesca]

So do you, do you do a voice inside the costume? Did you choose to talk or not talk? That had to have been a choice.

[Jay Schuberth]

It was a choice. No, I talk and I talk like this, but Pencil doesn't swear, which has been one of my challenges.

[Mike Pesca]

I want to ask a couple questions about the practicality of campaigning. So you're not going to win and you're not even going to rate in a way. Am I right about that? When people write you in and you have videos, here's what you do. There's a check for write in vote and you write in the name pencil. But am I right that they don't really even tell calculate that or tabulate that unless there is such an overwhelming number of write in votes that it's more than the front runner.

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah. So I talked to secretary of state, which you can imagine that was a fun conversation. And basically, because the way in Oregon, it's right, so the county level is where they're counted. And so what we will all get is X number of write ins. And they'll just say that. And so we won't know who wrote in. I can request at the county level to receive all of the ballots and to count the write ins myself, which we may do. Because if you can OCR them, it wouldn't take that long.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. You could tabulate them using your. By the way, do the bubbles. Do the sheets have to be filled in with a pencil in the Oregon write in ballots?

[Jay Schuberth]

No, with a pen.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, man. Because it was a pencil. What a. What a great little reminder that would be. What a subconscious campaign extension.

[Jay Schuberth]

Yes, but actually, we got into a little bit of not trouble, but we have to say write in pencil but use a pen because we don't want to disenfranchise people.

[Mike Pesca]

By write in pencil, we mean the noun write in, not the verb. Write in the compound verb. Yes.

[Jay Schuberth]

And of course, that rolls off the tongue.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. And of course, Oregonians won't understand this because as established, they're fourth in literacy. Okay, so now tell me about who do you want to. Of the Republicans or of Tina Kotak, who do you have the most criticism of?

[Jay Schuberth]

Well, obviously Kotak, because she's been in office for four years. You know, the. It's not as if the Republicans are coming out with great plans. Dudley is the only one that's mentioned the Mississippi miracle.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Jay Schuberth]

Drazen just says, I want to, you know, improve education. That's great. But, you know, there are things you got to. You got to explain a little bit more than that. And so in terms of Kotak, the other thing, just to be clear, we are a blue state. We have been a blue state. We've had super majorities, Democrats for years. This is, you know, this isn't recent. And we, Our scores have been going down for years. This is a pre pandemic issue. Got worse in the pandemic, got worse after the pandemic. But this is at the feet of the Democratic establishment. There's some really great Democrats that we're trying to work with and who have been great. But, you know, we are. If you look at it, we are Tina Kotak. For four years, advocates have brought to her, myself included. We have brought people in from Mississippi. We have brought people in from North Carolina. We've said, hey, look, this is what people have done. And they said, no, thanks. We'll do it the Oregon way. And it's the Oregon way means your 50th might want to look for a different way.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, well, the Oregon way is also the way that Got a lot of momentum in the 80s and 90s. And this was a form of reading. It's been all detailed in the podcast, told a story and Helen Lewis wrote a very good piece about it in the Atlantic. This is something, this is a form of reading that goes by a few names, but the idea is to expose kids to words and books and make them have wonderful associations with books. They will pick up context and you know what? It just doesn't work. Work. What does work is the science of reading. And as it turns out that states that stuck with phonics or the science of reading curriculum, not by really looking at data, but just by not glomming onto the kind of kids will catch reading because reading is so wonderful. How could you not catch it? Those states are the more Republican conservative states in general. And it takes an actual recognition of this and a change that we've been doing it wrong in the blue states to correct. So has that been hard to convince the good blue state voters of Oregon that their blue statedness is some of the reason that their literacy is so bad?

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah. Can you come campaign with me? Yes. Okay, so a couple of things which is thank you. You had Emily Hanford on pencil. Doesn't exist without Emily Hanford and other journalists. And we also have amazing journalists, education journalists here that have been digging into this and like what's the specifics of Oregon's problem? And I want to add two things to that, which is this is about reading, but this is also about the relationship of the state departments of education to the districts. And in Oregon and a lot of blue states, it's a very hands off. Like we give you the money, you do what you're going to do. Right. We have 197 school districts, we have a rowboat without a leader. Right. There's no captain. And what that means is there's a great article Rachel Kantor just wrote in the Atlantic about the Mississippi. And what people are missing is that not only did they do everything you're talking about, which is train the teachers, the educators in the science of reading, get help to kids that need it. The other thing is they change that relationship and the accountability structure and they changed their Department of Ed from one of compliance based box checking to outcomes based and linking the funding to outcomes. So that's one of the big problems as well. So just want to mark that as.

[Mike Pesca]

Mark it with what? What sort of. Mark it with what? What sort of instrument or implement?

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah, I don't know, maybe like a. Well, not a mechanical pencil. I'd probably. Yeah. Okay. So I, I do have to say I knew because I've been listening to you for years. I knew the puns were going to be a problem. So I'm ready.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm wondering if you hope to come in number two on the ballot.

[Jay Schuberth]

Well, you know, and I've said, people, you know, people ask me what do I want and Pencil would love if we were number one in education, but I'd settle for number two.

[Mike Pesca]

Number two.

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shall we go on?

[Mike Pesca]

Sure. In the morning. Is there. Does it take a little to get the let out when you're first? Okay. No, sorry.

[Jay Schuberth]

It does. A little personal. I mean someone asked me when the last time I was sharpened, I was like, this is boxers or brief territory.

[Mike Pesca]

Exactly. Tmi. Okay.

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

So I interrupted you talking about what, what the sincere agenda is behind this attention getting stunt. How do you come to it personally?

[Jay Schuberth]

Kind of two angles, which is I was a professor and I moved here about 20 years ago and I've been teaching community college in Chicago and I moved here and I got a job at Portland State University, which is four year college and I was teaching a lot in the freshman like when, you know, so these are students that are just coming to college. And I was pretty shocked and at the skills they were lacking. And so, you know, I, I'm a researcher. I started looking around, started reading and was like blown away. I thought progressive Oregon. And we were way down in the scores on math, on literacy, everything right fast forward. I, I had kids and one of my sons is dyslexic and you know, the, oh, he's just a boy. Oh, he'll catch up. No, he's dyslexic. Like he needs tutoring. So but here's the thing. I was able to pay for the tutoring. I had the resources, I got it. And he's going to college next year. Right. Most kids aren't that lucky. Most kids don't have the resources. And so that's that community. Like trying to even get help is how I got involved with advocacy and started seeing what was going on and then really got involved. And I'm, you know, I'm a researcher and so I went and read every policy out there from all the states. Then I called anyone that would talk to me and people will talk to you. So I talked to North Carolina. If they wrote the policy, implemented the policy, got it passed politically. Right. I mean, and so we started and I was so naive. I thought clearly what's going on is that the People in Oregon just need to, you know, the legislators and the governor just need to be shown, you know, hey, look what they've done. And they'll go, that's great. Thanks so much, Jay Shubert. That's not what they did.

[Mike Pesca]

So

[Jay Schuberth]

after four years, you know, I'm in a pencil costume. And in part, what's so amazing is education is one of our large, I mean it's billions of dollars. It's one of the biggest expenditures. Right. And our economy depends on it. You know, everything. It's barely talked about in the governor's race. And I watched this four years ago, that was the other thing that happened because people talk about our housing crisis, mental health issues, the drug issues and education just kind of gets shunted off to the side. And I have, I have theories about why that is. You know, I think it's a highly emotional issue.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, I also, I also think that the valence of the issue does skew Democrat, even if the reality does not. So these Republican candidates, and by the way, there are a few of them with a shot at winning, you would think that someone would carve out that niche. But the Republican candidates might be calculating, if I talk education, it's only going to ultimately help the Democrats. But you know, this is the primary. It is a way to distinguish oneself. It is a way to stand out. And what are the rules in Oregon? Do you have to be registered in a party or can you vote for.

[Jay Schuberth]

We're closed primary and we just lost a lawsuit. Yeah, no, it's, it's terrible. So yeah, and the thing is we have one of the highest, we have almost 50% non affiliated voters. So you know, it is a, it is a problem.

[Mike Pesca]

Then again, if you were an open primary, you might have some calculation where, well, maybe I'm taking votes away from someone who could actually use them. You know, maybe it would be better to get. If there were a candidate really talking about your issues, get behind them.

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah. Are you saying that that pencil might be a spoiler? Have you been, have you been in the Facebook comments? Is that you, Mike?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, it's, it's going to come down to pencil. Pencil Dudley 26, pen Drazen. We know what Mississippi did. They were tired of being dead last. They didn't have any adherence to the Lucy Calkins Columbia teachers ideology of how to teach. But are there any good models for states that thought of themselves as good blue progressive states where they identify with education way, where they maybe were against Bush's no Child Left behind, those kind of states Earnestly reforming because they realize that they've gone down a wrong path.

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah. So Colorado, and here's the thing, what Colorado did was 15 years ago, you know, so they passed a bill that was terrible. And when I say terrible, what I mean is. And this is what Oregon does. Oregon likes to pass bills that are suggestions. We would really, really like it districts if you would do these things that have been proven by 40 years of research, that would be great if you could do that. Please, please, please. And guess what? That didn't work. So 10 years later they came back and then they started mandating things and now they're seeing results and it's amazing. And so Colorado was phenomenal. And I started talking to them a couple years ago and you know, they have really made gains and they are a model for, I think other blue states. That said, I mean, this is what's so frustrating about this. Like, this is a nonpartisan issue in the sense that like, I think we can all agree, like kids should be able to read. Right. And I think what's just so phenomenal about this is, and, and what I was really shocked by is how reticent, you know, people were willing to engage in that. They'll talk about anything and everything why we can't do this except that they'll talk about, you know, a lot of adult comfort is what this comes to. And I think in Colorado, one of the things that they had done was because they had some districts had over that 10 years, like taken them up on, you know, hey, maybe you should do like, you know, what the science says. They had a cadre of educators that were also able to say, hey, hey, hey guys, if you do this, like, it's great, like the kids start reading and what have you. And so within the educational community itself, right. Whereas when you look at Mississippi or somewhere, right, it was, it was a bit more top down. But here's the thing. Kids can't wait. I'm sorry, but like that's 10 years of those kids that were in the other districts that were unlucky and their, their teachers didn't, you know, their principals weren't interested in training their teachers. Like that's, you know, that's, that's not fair. So yeah, Colorado is where I would look.

[Mike Pesca]

What about teachers unions? You know, this is the Republican talking point. And who gets blamed?

[Jay Schuberth]

What difference?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, tell me what different states relationship with the unions are and what's Oregon's.

[Jay Schuberth]

Okay, so as this is what people will point out, they'll say, oh, you can do that. In this, this, in this state. Because like for instance, Mississippi has weak teachers union, North Carolina, things like that. Right. So that people will point to that. And in Oregon and others. So Oregon, just for context, has the second. People call it the second most powerful alpha Illinois teachers union in the country. Okay. And so it's, it's very strong. And the thing I, and I just have to put this caveat on. My grandmother and mother were both teachers west side of Chicago. My brother's a firefighter. He's in a union. I was in a union when I was at Portland State University. Workers rates are not incompatible with teaching children to read. However, in Oregon, the largest group that has been against the, the kinds of changes we're talking about, they've come out publicly and said that they're not interested, is the Oregon Education association, the state level teachers union. And I think what's really important is that the teachers are not the same thing as the union. And, and there's really some dissent within that. However, we've really struggled. Teachers will tell us things behind closed doors and they'll talk to us privately. They're very hesitant to go on record against the union and speak out. And it's been a huge problem. And you know, just politically, the union is one of the largest donors to the Democrats.

[Mike Pesca]

But not interested. What does that mean? They reject the science. They don't think they're last in reading. What does that practically mean? They don't want to fund even pilot programs in, in certain schools to see if this could work.

[Jay Schuberth]

All of the above. And it's on record. So this is not just, you know, oh, we heard someone say this. Basically they, they said they were, there's some great reporting by the Oregon Journalism Project and they are pencils. Top three things, which is you, you need to train all teachers. What you've talked about, professional development, science of reading. You need to get tutoring to children who need. So you need to target funds and get it. Tutoring, high dosage tutoring to children that are really struggling. And then also, and this is what. Mississippi by the way, is one of the most progressive states for funding low income children. Oregon is the 48th most regressive state for funding high poverty schools. And so they've come out against all of those. And the logic here for them, they say they, they claim local control, which local control is not an actual legal doctrine or something. It's, it's sort of a cultural thing. Mississippi has local control. So this is not a local control real issue. What this is, is what they mean is, give us the money and don't ask anything else. You can't tell us what to do. And they say things like academic freedom. And, you know, I was a professor, give me a break. I can't go into the classroom and do whatever I want. But that'd be like saying to a doctor, well, you know, what if a medical school was teaching the four humors and like using leeches? And they were like, oh, academic freedom.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Jay Schuberth]

I mean, it doesn't hold up. But that's where they're how the sort of against. We don't want the imposition of the state. And this is where I just find it fascinating on a national level, which is. Mississippi is one of the most interventionist states. I mean, you know, this isn't about vouchers and school choice. They are in the schools, they tell them what to do in terms of, you know, you got to teach this way and things. And so what I love is it really scrambles people's ideology, which is also hard to communicate, but, you know, gives me a little bit of hope for the future of politics in America.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. What do you want and what do you expect this entire campaign literally to have achieved?

[Jay Schuberth]

Yeah. I mean, if we simply get people to go, wait, we're 50th, I can't tell you. Many people don't know that. And like, think about how depressing that is. Right. Just go, wait, we have a problem. So that would be. And we're doing that. Right. And the second thing is we want people to know that this is not kids fault, it's not teachers fault, it's not parents fault. There's actually a systemic problem. Like our system is broken.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Jay Schuberth]

And the last thing is that that we can fix this, that there's models other places, like this isn't just inevitable. And so if we can get people to just see that, like, that will be a success. Because I think right now people don't think you can change things. Like, there's such a feeling of like, this is just how things are. And with education, I see that all the time. And this is. I don't know how to solve all problems. I don't know how to, you know, fix everything. But, like, this is a fixable problem.

[Mike Pesca]

Jay Schuberth is pencil and they hope to be the ruler of Oregon, though it probably won't happen. Thank you very much, Jay.

[Jay Schuberth]

Thanks so much, Mike.

[Mike Pesca]

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The Long Island Railroad ended its one day strike today. As with any work action, there was tension and disagreement. But this is a story about what no one disagrees over. Except perhaps some people I have never heard of, thought of, and want to hear no more of, except to know that they are wrong. So to establish the baseline, here's a montage of the headlines about the LIRR job action. People who take the LIRR three of

[Jay Schuberth]

the LIRR strike the LIR LIRR workers, the LIRR unions.

[Mike Pesca]

LIRR Union workers went out on strike. That's the lirr. The LIR on occasion, if you're getting a bit fancy for a guy from Hicksville, here now the headline of a New York times story today. LI RR vs lure the debate splitting New York Commuters Initialism or acronym? It doesn't matter. No one can agree on how to pronounce it. Here's the thing. Everyone can agree on how to pronounce it. This is an insane article about insane people who don't really exist or if they do, shouldn't. This is in fact a service by the New York Times to put together this article so that it can help us identify people who say lure. So you should never believe them about anything ever, nor hold the door for them, nor give them accurate information about transferring in Jamaica for West Hempstead, Oyster Bay, Port Jefferson or run Konkama, just tell them, oh, West Hempstead, yeah, that'd be the second to last stop on the Hempstead line. When in fact they're totally different lines as every non idiot knows. How do you not know that? Everyone from spion to quag knows that. To say nothing of the aforementioned Ron Konkama. Here now is how the New York Times audio version of that article supposedly raising accurate points about accurate people in a credible fact checked way says Ron

[Jay Schuberth]

Konkama, no matter how many times they've ridden the Long Island Railroad out to Jones beach or back and forth between Midtown and Ron Konkoma.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I guess. I guess there's some maniac out there who says lure. The lure of lure escapes me, but what do I know? What's my standing having grown up on a train to Limbruck stopping at Rockville Center, Baldwin, Freeport, Merrick, Belmore, Want to Seaford, Massapequa, Massapequa Park, Amityville, Copaig, Lindenhurst and Babylon. If you're waiting for a Long Island Railroad L I R R maybe LIR train and you hear saying when's the lure coming? You need to de platform them. Not literally, but also maybe literally. You should treat the lure crowd like we treat Q anon or I guess Quanon. Yeah, maybe they exist, but it's too bad they do. They are at least helping us identify themselves as useless, worthless and backwards. Now the article engages in some faux contemplation about the vagaries of initialism. They quote a professor who says why something becomes initialism when it could be pronounced as an acronym is weird. This professor says, noting that City University of New York or cuny is pronounced cuny, but its state counterpart, suny, was suny. I don't know why it happens. I do. And you, by the way, should be fired. At least from your job. Possibly into outer space, that is Ron Konkoma. Let me explain how it worked. You can't call Sunni sunny because it has one N, not two S, U, N, Y. And also because Albany, Binghamton, Oneonta are just not sunny. Thirteen years after they come up with suny, that's when they came up with cuny. And you got to rhyme it with suny, so you have what you have. Also, cunning has its problems. As far as lirr, it's always initialism. If the vowels don't help you out, right, it's the MTA, not the meter, it, but it is the MoMA, not the MoMA. There we have the vowels helping you out. NASA, yes, but the FBI, not the Phoebe, Although under Cash Patel. I mean, can you trust that snorkeling drunkard? The LI RR isn't the lure because the U and the I are complicated. But also it has two R's. You got to respect both railroad R's. There's ample precedent for when a government entity has double letters. The Civilian Complaint Review Board is the ccrb, not the curb. And it's the ncaa. And also sometimes the ncaa, like the LI double R, it's never the Nika. You know, by the way, I'd welcome an announcement that says, transfer Jamaica for the lure. And then there'd be a giant hook that would drop all those people who listen to it in the bay. The article, the Times article ends with one guy from Queens saying, I don't know, maybe it's only people from Long island who say LIR about the Long Island Railroad. Well, then, what else do we need? Deferred to the land that gave us Bill O'Reilly and Joey Buttafuoco and Michael Cohen and Anthony Scaramucci and so many Baldwins, including the town I came from, but not the town they came from. That'd be Massapequa, as opposed to Massapequa Park, Amityville, Copagan, Lindenhurst. It all brings me back to the fondest part of my youth on Long island, which was planning, often on a map, the way to get out of Long Island. And that plan, like the means of transit itself, did not get derailed, which is one thing I gotta thank the L I R for. That's it for today's show. Corey Wara produces the gist, and Kathleen Sykes does the gist list for me. Jeff Craig edits how to which you should listen to. And Ben Astaire is our booking coordinator. Michelle Pesca is a daughter of the path. And thanks for listening.