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- [00:01]
Discover Card Representative
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- [01:02]
Mike Pesca
I have a substack. Don't know if you know that sometimes on my sub stack I'll write an essay that I call the Pesca Profundities portion of the substack. But really, every day I'll have five to seven items that if you fail to acknowledge them, you're going to be a worse person. Not just worse off, but not as interesting. Behind the times and a little slow on the uptake. This is called the Gist list. It is shot through with my aphorisms and observations. For instance, did you know that Texas was making Daylight Savings Time permanent? You would if you read the Gist list. Do you know that penguin poop cools the planet? You would if you read the Gist list. Did you know that if Trump's threats to Harvard go through their crew team, or I guess you could say their crew is going to be hit hard. A lot of Englishmen and women on the crew team. These are just some of the exciting items on the Just list. Again, I would just hate for you to be an unoptimized, less than extremely interesting person. Go to Mike pesca.substack.com to get the written word. And now enjoy the spoken It's Monday, June 9, 2025 from Peach Fish Product. It's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca. May you live in interesting times. More than interesting, extraordinary. And it's the Times that saying so. New York Times lead June 8 An extraordinary weekend of protest ignited in Los Angeles after federal immigration authorities conducted a series of immigration raids. The Times June 6 the raid at the clothing wholesaler began about 9:15am in the Fashion District less than 2 miles from Los Angeles City Hall. It was an extraordinary show of force front page that day. Build up to a meltdown. How the Trump Musk alliance collapsed. President Trump's decision to pull a close associate of Elon Musk's out of the running to lead NASA helped doom an extraordinary partnership. Also a one newspaper that day the Trump administration had planned to send the men who had come to the United States a year ago as immigrants from across the world on to the war torn country of South Sudan. An extraordinary gambit. Also June 6th. The university rejected the demands on April 14th, setting off the extraordinary two month battle. All right, I think Harvard's a little less extraordinary than sending prisoners to Sudan and a giant clash on the streets of Los Angeles. But we got more. June 7th. President Trump took extraordinary action on Saturday by calling up 2,000 National Guard troops. And here was Michael Barbaro hosting the New York Times podcast the Daily Today.
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Discover Card Representative
An extraordinary weekend.
- [03:57]
Mike Pesca
Here was reporter Jonathan Swan on the New York Times podcast the Daily Today. And then there's this extraordinary meeting in the Oval Office. And here was reporter Jonathan Swan briefly reacting. In the background you will hear host Michael Babaro of the New York Times podcast the Daily Today. What precedes is this extraordinary scene. If it's all so extraordinary, can any of it be said to be extraordinary? Extraordinary, yes. How do I know? Because the New York Times is saying so. They're saying so often on the front page quite prominently. Who am I to disagree? None of these things are ordinary. They're a little extra. You could argue if they were ordinary, they wouldn't be news. Maybe all news is somewhat extraordinary. That's why we put it in the paper, on the front page even. But I will leave that argument to others for now. Let us just say that we live in extraordinary times. Certainly according to the Times. On the show today, I shall give you a spiel about the goings on in Los Angeles and I have three criteria of what the media should cover. But first, Jay Inslee was a 12 year governor of the state of Washington, perhaps the most prominent elected official on the issue of the environment. Washington has done a lot of Jay Inslee wants the country to do more. However, as an issue, the environment doesn't actually do well with voters. An argument that Matt Iglesias has made about a Jay Inslee op ed. I don't have Matt here. I'll have him here on Thursday for not even mad. But I do put those questions to Governor Inslee, listen.
- [05:42]
Jay Inslee
Foreign.
- [05:48]
Mike Pesca
Father's Day gifts. I don't know, maybe there's a sameness to it. Socks, grills, tools, repeat. This year I wanted to do better. So I quinced it up. Quince makes buying a thoughtful gift easy. They have all the pieces. Dads, I'm one wanna wear organic cotton silk polos. I have to say, did I know I wanted that? I don't. Didn't. And then it touched my skin and my skin thanked myself. It was a little, you know, self dealing as they say. But they also have European linen beach shorts and awesome pants. And quince is priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find with similar brands. It is the whole cutting out the middleman. But it really works. They work with top artisans. They don't hit you with the crazy markups. They hit you with the delightful fabrics and these factories that are safe and ethical and responsible. And for Father's Day, I gotta say I got it for me and then I gave it to my dad. The shirts that I'm talking about, the polo shirts, they were amazing. I didn't want to give them up. I had two. One for me, one for dad. I chose the color that I wanted and they're amazing shirts. And I made my dad love me more. I made him. For the dad who deserves better than basic, Quince has you covered. Go to quince.com the gist for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com the gist to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com the gist hi guys. Is Ed getting you down? Do you not if literally here. Imagine the crude crescendo of the slide whistle. You know the one. Let's get other things like your confidence back up with Hims. HIMS provides you access to treatments that could help you last longer. So you can be ready whenever the mood strikes. If you're feeling stalled out in the bedroom, HIMS is the solution. It's changing men's health by providing you access with affordable sexual health treatments from the comfort of your couch. HIMS provides an access to a range of doctor trusted ed treatments like here are some you may have heard of Viagra Cialis. So this isn't some weird off brand version of Cialis. This is the Cialis. The one with the tubs on tv. And you get it from Hims. You fill out a form. A medical provider determines the right treatment for you. Your medication ships directly. Shipping's free. No insurance is needed. That's really important. HIMS has been doing this for a long, long time. They're very trusted. Is very important area for men, from what I understand. And HIMS is the one who can help. Start your free online Visit today at hims.com/the gist that's H I M s.com/the gist for your personalized ED treatment options. Hims.com/the gist. Now here's the part I speak fast. The governor, perhaps the governor most associated with and dedicated to the topic of climate change during his time in office with was Jay Inslee of Washington State. Now, Governor Inslee is former Governor Inslee, but he's no less dedicated to the issue, the policy and also, and we'll talk about this, the politics of talking about climate change and how that can not only win elections for Democrats, but also maybe save the world. Hello, Governor Inslee, welcome to the gist. I should say welcome back to the Gist. I think I, I know I met you at the Iowa State Fair one year where you were running for president.
- [09:42]
Jay Inslee
I'm sure we had some slathered and butter corn dogs of some sort.
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Mike Pesca
Yes. And then the only environmental policy one dare be allowed to voice was favoring ethanol. But now that you've stepped away from national politics, do you think you're more free to talk more fully about a full range of economic, and I should say, environmental policies than you were when you were trying to, you know, appeal to a narrow slice of the electorate in Iowa or New Hampshire?
- [10:15]
Jay Inslee
Well, actually, this will shock you, but really not so, because I was pretty unfettered, unshackled and free to shoot for what I really believed when I was running in Iowa. And I'm glad I did because it inspired other Democrats. It raised their ambitions on clean energy. And if you ask Joe Biden, he'll say that the Inflation Reduction act was inspired in part by my candidacy and kind of forcing everybody to raise their game. So I was pretty free to spout off then and haven't really increased my spouting. It's always been pretty loud on this because I've always believed that this was really a great economic development strategy for the country and good for Democrats. So I'm sticking to my story.
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Mike Pesca
And that's the best way to pitch it as economic development, right?
- [11:05]
Jay Inslee
Well, I think it's always a mix. It's always a mix. I think this is one of the things that's bedeviled our discussion about how to talk about climate change is for people to say there's only one winning message. I don't think there is one winning message. It depends on the context, it depends who you're talking to. But certainly the economics of this is not mentioned as frequently as it should be when it comes to the climate crisis that we're experiencing. Because right now the Republicans are threatening to cut hundreds of thousands of jobs in this budget deal that are going to move forward otherwise under the existing inflation reduction act and tax cuts. Those are real jobs. I can point to them in the state of Washington. They're real people being fired today because of Trump's lunacy and his phobia about wind turbines. So that economic message is profound and realistic. And then there's the health message, which is equally powerful, which really we need to stress, I think more frequently when we talk about the climate crisis because we have first term, first order impacts, including the epidemic of asthma. But at the same time, you can't ignore the disasters that people are experiencing. I know any number of people whose homes have been burned down in forest fires. I had two whole towns burned down in Washington. Talked to my buddy in Florida the other day who's house has been flooded twice on the coast of Florida. So all three of those are tenable messages. You just got to figure out who you're talking to, what the context and the moment is, and they all deserve a place in this discussion.
- [12:44]
Mike Pesca
Now, national polling shows that as an issue, voters put climate 14th. It is true that certain groups, and you talk about the young, rank it higher. But do you have a reason to believe, even if voters agree with you more than they disagree with you, the importance or salience of the issue is far below other things like economics, which I know you're going to say it does tie into economics, was below immigration, it's below 13 other issues.
- [13:10]
Jay Inslee
Yeah, it depends how you ask the question. Because if you ask it just with the climate, you know, label on it, you may get those results. But if you ask them a question, would you like to have a job? Would you like to have lower utility bills because wind and solar is cheaper than coal based electricity right now, they'll say it's one of your highest priorities. So when you're talking about the economics of climate change, you don't even in some sense need to mention climate change. We're talking about an economic issue. Do you want cheaper electricity? High priority of people say, yes, well, the cheapest electricity you can get today is solar and wind. And Donald Trump and his lackeys in The Republican cult are now trying to deprive people of access to that cheapest electricity. If you want to talk about your kids, job and career prospects or your own, right now the jobs are being killed by this, this anti climate change, you know, climate denying cult that's run in Washington D.C. so if you approach it from those avenues, you actually are talking to people about where they live, even in their short term interests. But there's another issue here that I think people who have not run for office sometimes don't recognize. I've been in this game for 30 years and what I've learned is if you're in an electoral battle, the, the most effective thing you can talk about is the biggest difference between you and your opponent, the clearest one, the one that absolutely nobody can fudge.
- [14:45]
Mike Pesca
And people, because if you say I'm for jobs, your opponent's going to say I'm for jobs, because who's not for jobs? So what you have to do is light upon a real difference and say, and even have your opponent say, no, that guy's wrong. And then you can highlight the differences, you can contrast. So go ahead.
- [15:02]
Jay Inslee
That's exactly right. And the biggest, sharpest, most obvious and inarguable contrast between where I stand in my party and the other party is whether or not we should do something about the planet burning up. Now I understand the Earth is a small planet, but there are those who love her and frankly it's most of our constituents and this is something they can't fudge. They are denying the necessity of doing anything about this. That's hitting us right in the face. So when you get these clear cut differences, even if it might not list as the top five at the moment, you know, you can make electoral progress in this regard. Now I want to see this too, because you mentioned one of these issues about young people, where they stand on this issue. It is clear that we need to do more communication around this subject. We do not provide people enough information with sufficient frequency to get them to think about it. You know, they receive 20 car commercials a week and they hear about the climate crisis. You know, once every eight months my side of the agenda has to get on podcasts, your place where social media lives, rather than just the New York Times and Franklin npr, both of which I love.
- [16:20]
Mike Pesca
But you got them. You got those voters.
- [16:22]
Jay Inslee
I'm actually working on that.
- [16:24]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, I was going to say you got those. Those are in your column. And that's what I want to ask you about. In order to win elections, you have to not just extra convince the people who are going to vote for you anyway. You have to convince marginal voters, maybe marginal non voters. And Matt Iglesias was writing in his blog, he saw that you had written an op ed in the Washington Post. Democrats can win over young Trump voters. Here is how the party should focus on the issue that represents the greatest threat to Gen Z, climate change. That was the Washington Post headline and subhead of your piece, what Matt points out. And I think it's a, I think it's a fair argument and I'd love to give you a chance to respond. He says that marginal voters do not care about this as much as you say they do. Marginal nonwhite and marginal young voters. Voters. And he says we just spent 2021 through 24 running the experiment of what happens when the Democratic Party makes climate rather than health care or other aspects of the social safety net their top legislative priority. And what happened was an unprecedented swing of young people and voters of color toward the gop. I don't want to argue that this happened solely because of climate focus, but to turn around and to say that even more climate focus is the answer strains credulity. And then he goes on to say that young voters and nonwhite voters are even more focused on economic well being than older voters and whiter voters. So why do you think not only does it not strain credulity, why do you say that this is the way forward?
- [17:53]
Jay Inslee
Well, I don't have to screen anybody, sprain or even strain anybody's credibility. The fact of the matter is I won three terms as governor running on this issue. So that criticism is welcomed as an intellectual exercise. But the fact is I've proven won three governor's races going away in part because I had a way of talking about this. Now, that criticism is valid to some degree, you know, because if you. He was sort of attacking a straw man. I didn't say this is the only message that's going to win every election, all the time. You're even in that particular case. But I do believe that we can exercise more power, electoral power, if in fact we talk about their climate denial, their decision to take away these jobs, their decision to give people more asthma. And I actually think the reverse is true. We did not. The president, Vice President Harris, did not run on climate change. We did not test that capacity. She never mentioned the word during her election virtually. So we did not test that. It remains to be tested. And he and I are both right. This criticism is right that we do need more communication on this subject. So people do raise it as a priority, number one. And number two, we have to learn how to talk about it. And the very first comments that I talk to you about it is the way to talk about it is through an economic lens, is through a health lens, is through a lens. Talking to people where they live is through the lens of utility costs. Now, that has not been done adequately in many places and it has done in my state because I've spent 30 years figuring out how to talk about this. And this is why I've been successful electorally. So maybe both of us are right. We have more work to do in this regard.
- [19:46]
Mike Pesca
Is Washington an outlier as opposed to the average or marginal voter in the rest of the country?
- [19:54]
Jay Inslee
I don't think so. You know, obviously we're a little bluer than many states, but we kind of tested this in a clear up or down vote. So we passed the Climate Commitment act that basically created a cap and invest system for the state of Washington. And the fossil fuel guys and their right wing friends came in and tried to repeal it last November. They put it on the ballot. We had a knockdown drag debate about that. And we won 62 to 38. We had an up or down vote on climate change action in the state of Washington, and we won 62 to 38. And we won in the vast majority of counties, including in red districts. And the reason is as we talked about the economic benefits of reducing carbon pollution, the economic benefits of getting people cheaper electricity bills and better electric transportation systems. And we won 62 to 38. This was an up or down vote. So if you look at the salience of this issue, it wasn't some, you know, kind of poll with 400 people. It was 8 million people voting on it. And we proved that it can be defended in the state of Washington in red counties. I used to represent a red county when I was first in Congress. We won that in Yakima county, we won it in Southwest Park, Washington. So I guess that was if you looked at the national, national test of this theory. Come to Washington state. We proved it works.
- [21:26]
Mike Pesca
Okay, so that's about the lens. That's about what you emphasize and talk about, what about what you deliver. This is a Washington post article from 2024, and the numbers haven't changed that much at all, really. Biden's $7.5 billion investment in E EV charging has only produced seven stations in two years. I think it's up to eight. They're not getting a big boost from the Trump administration. I know it takes time for money to get through the system, but this touches on the idea of the abundance agenda. Even if you have the right talking points or the right funding, if you're not delivering, how much credit are you getting as Democrats?
- [22:08]
Jay Inslee
Well, we've got a lot of credit in my state because we have financed our EV installation through our Cap and Invest, our Climate Commitment act, and we've doubled them. We have over 7,000 charging ports now in the state, publicly available charging ports. We've doubled that in the last four years. So on a state basis, we've made some really great progress using state funds. But the public, the federal EV system has not succeeded. And the reason is, is that the way it was structured federally created so many roadblock, roadblocks to installation on domestic content, on accessibility, on a whole host of measures that basically hamstrung the effort and that has to be fixed. It is extremely disappointing that it has not been a successful program on a federal basis, but the EV transportation system has been a smashing success. In my state, one out of every five cars now are sold or electric. It's one out of four across the world. We're getting cars that are very reasonably priced with 300 miles of range and they're going gangbusters. So if you look at the ecosystem, it's gone quite well. But I would hope that we'd have to restructure that program rather than dismantling it. And the dismantling is, is not an overstatement. The Republican budget, that cult, is producing a total obliteration of anything to help Americans both with this transition and with that job creation. They're going to effectively zero out these tax breaks that are creating so many jobs. In fact, there's a group called Climate Power that I'm doing some work with. They've done evaluation of the job loss. They've already identified 62,000 jobs that have been lost or threatened in the short term and about a half million in the out years by the repeal of these tax breaks that are so important. And we've had about 12 Republicans, only 12, who even raised a note of concern about this. But unfortunately, they're probably going to fold and we're going to find a lot of job loss and reduction of the economic potential dominance of a America in this field. Here's one of the things frustrating to me. Trump talks about how he wants American dominance of energy, but he's basically shooting ourselves in the foot with the largest, most expansive part of our of our energy portfolio is in Clean energy. It's wind turbines, it's solar power, where it's cheaper in 90% of America right now to produce electrons with solar and win. And he's destroying that, you know, what could be a dominant source of our energy. That's extremely frustrating.
- [24:58]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
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Jay Inslee
So I wish we had some more Republicans who decided they want to opt out of this cult.
- [25:02]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, Republicans should like wind, Oklahomans should like wind. And at the risk of giving you a Mark Russell type punchline for a guy who generates so much wind, he certainly is weirdly against it.
- [25:13]
Jay Inslee
But I want to, I think I've tried to figure out where this comes from. And you know, maybe he was scared by a windmill and he was a five year old. He never got over the phobia. It's just, it's so.
- [25:23]
Mike Pesca
But, but he's in Queens. Like where's he going to encounter a windmill, a miniature golf course? It's very odd.
- [25:28]
Jay Inslee
Well, dude, he's saying maybe he went the Netherlands somewhere.
- [25:31]
Mike Pesca
Oh, sure, I do have to go back. I'll take your point that you in the state of Washington had a much more successful rollout of EV charging stations. But if it's such a disappointment on the federal level, Democrats don't have that many chances to pass a big bill and they do and they give it a lot of funding and there are certainly a lot of headwinds. You've spent a lot of time talking about the headwinds supplied by the conservatives if they don't actually deliver and prove to people that you shouldn't have range anxiety, that your EV is just as good as a gas powered car. In fact, it's cheaper if they don't actually change the perception because they've changed the reality because they've delivered on their funding. Is there real hope for this not only as a talking point but as a successful policy?
- [26:23]
Jay Inslee
Well, again, I hate to, to, to delve into facts and experience, but let me point out, we tested your question here. It's not a hypothetical. Basically in this election we had last November, the friends of the fossil fuel industry who want us to continue to be addicted to oil and gas said this is never going to work. We're never going to have a transition to electricity and transition. This is just a hallucination of these, you know, granola eating liberals. People voted it down 2 to 1 because they recognize this is a viable technology. Yes, we have. The federal system has not worked as well as it should, but it's working where you want to build them in state by state and by the Way we got to focus more on states, not just Congress. We have 24 states now in the U.S. climate Alliance. We represent 60% of the country and all of them are moving forward. So I guess all is not lost. That has been one glitch in this transition, but it's moving forward and we're not going backwards. This transition to electricity is going to move forward. It's just a question how fast. But I wish I could say that we could avoid a three year halt, which we're getting under Donald Trump.
- [27:38]
Mike Pesca
Congress recently passed a law that it undid an exception for the state of California to essentially allow California to pass rules that aspired to be 100% EV by 2050, but by next year they were to be 35% EV. There right now at 25% EV and the curve was pretty steep, except the last couple of years it is very much leveled out. And what the consumers of California are saying and what the experts say is that early adoption of the people who are really interested in the technology and could afford the technology, that has happened. And now you've reached a point where it's very expensive for a certain amount of people and they have range anxiety and other reasons why they might not be able to buy a car. So the politics of it were all the Republicans voted to scotch this California requirement, But so did 50 or so frontline Democrats in exactly the kind of districts that you have to win if you want to win national elections or state elections. And so I know how you would vote on it. But my question to you, you is, were those Democrats wrong on the politics? Are they misreading the politics which drove them to vote against that exception for what was to be California's mandates?
- [29:06]
Jay Inslee
Well, I guess what I would point out is I've heard a lot of folks talk about the importance of states rights. Certainly Republicans have talked about states rights when it came to in so many different ways. I go back to George Wallace talking about states rights, but the first time that a state wants to actually use this technology like California and Washington, all of a sudden states rights means nothing. I would suggest that no matter what you think about this issue, I would disagree with those who voted that way because they dishonored what the states wanted to do with their own decision making in California and Washington want to move forward with this because we believe we can achieve.
- [29:45]
Mike Pesca
Oh yeah, Washington, right. Washington signed on to those exact standards.
- [29:49]
Jay Inslee
Right. And so we're signed on. There's I believe, 12 other states as well. I think in our United States and states are important in this to allow states to be more visionary than Mississippi and Alabama and Texas. We want to be more visionary than Alabama and Mississippi. And I don't think that's a bad thing. We're more ambitious than they are. We believe in technology more than they do. We don't have as many climate deniers as they do. We have a better EV charging installation program than they do. So let's let all flowers bloom and allow states to move forward on this. And as far as the timelines on this, this is one part of the difficult situation. We're not set in the timeline on this. Mother Nature is. Look, we're in a race and Mother Nature doesn't cut us a lot of slack here. And the fact is that we're heading to absolute catastrophic disaster if we do not act with alacrity here. There was a report yesterday that says we may already be in a case of the collapse of the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets, which means several feet of sea level rise, which would be catastrophic to millions of people. We have desertification going on. I've had two whole towns burned down. This is a race. And in a race, sometimes you got to be a little more ambitious than totally in your comfort zone. So let us be free of the shackles of Mississippi. I don't think that's too much to ask.
- [31:17]
Mike Pesca
Jay Inslee was the governor of the state of Washington from 2013 to 2025. Thank you so much, Governor Inslee.
- [31:28]
Jay Inslee
Thank you. I hope we can do it again.
- [31:38]
Mike Pesca
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- [33:36]
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- [34:08]
Mike Pesca
And now, the spiel days of National Guard troops getting pelted with rocks and projectiles by Californians waving Mexican flags as they stand atop burning cars. That is exactly what Donald Trump wanted. Of course it is. And Gavin Newsom is trying to turn the entire spectacle into a counter thesis. Here he was on msnbc.
- [34:30]
Jay Inslee
All of this is about immigration enforcement and the type of.
- [34:35]
SelectQuote Advertiser
Well, go ahead.
- [34:36]
Jay Inslee
No, I mean, I know.
- [34:36]
Gavin Newsom
I don't mean even to cut you out. I think it's about something much more. This is about authoritarian tendencies. This is about command and control. This is about power. This is about ego. My way of the highway. This is a consistent pattern of practice, of recklessness. This, this guy has abandoned the core principles of this great democracy. He's threatening to go after judges he disagrees with, cut off funding to institutions of higher learning. He's on a cultural binge. He's rewriting history, censoring historical facts. I mean, it's, this is all, this is something completely different. And this is part of, of that ongoing play that is unfolding in front of our eyes. It is a serious moment under the guise of immigration.
- [35:28]
Mike Pesca
But Newsom's tweets. That was from his Twitter feed. His next tweets included photos of Guard troops sleeping on concrete floors to shame Donald Trump. And also a bit of him arguing with a Sean Hannity thread. The L A Times had reporters at the protest turn riots right from the beginning. Here was a headline. What really happened outside the Paramount Home Depot? The reality on the ground versus the rhetoric. So a state assemblyman, Jose Salachi, saw a line of military vehicles near a Home Depot that morning. Quote, I saw a border agent get off the freeway here, off of Alondra. I was like, no, it can't be happening, he said. So he took to social media, started warning others. It was around 9am this is horrible, he posted. I am literally shaking. Word spread fast. Cars honked, protesters gathered. This is the situation, said Solace, panning his phone to show dozens of ICE agents outside the black gates. The community is coming out strong to show that they are not welcomed in our community, said Solace, whose parents emigrated from Mexico. No, I mean distrito, not in my district, Vominos PA fuera, which is let's go outside. So it does seem that this assemblyman got a lot of attention and may have himself sparked recently rumors about a raid that might not have even been planned. So welcomed or not, there's no indication that the raid violated the law. The president executes immigration policy for the country. States can't opt out. They can choose the degree of cooperation they give. Then there's the long standing tradition that governors are the ones who call in the National Guard, and that was not done here. So some questions for the media. What should the media do? I would say the media should do three things. One, tell us if the government is acting unlawfully. So Trump didn't seem to be initially calling in the National Guard. That's based on, I would say, a somewhat shaky interpretation of the meaning of a rebellion to tell us if the government is contravening the public's will. And in California, Gavin Newsom and an anti Trump sentiment are popular. But in America, polls show that the public backs Donald Trump's immigration crackdown and they should. Also, the media should three, tell us if we as the public ought to rethink this issue. That is certainly legitimate. So back to the L A Times, quote, this whole rhetoric of coming out after hardworking families is what we're all concerned about. Solace said. When you do raids at businesses, that's where the anger comes from. The protests continued based on social media reports of a raid either at a Home Depot or a meatpacking plant. But there was no raid at Home Depot. There were agents inside a gated industrial office park and that is where the crowd formed is a classic case of rumor leading to confrontation. Louisiana Times Again, many protesters were filming. There were social workers, neighbors, advocates. Okay, that's sympathetic, I suppose. I'm sure the National Guardsmen were landscapers and butchers in their day jobs. To L A Times near the gates when federal agents saw objects thrown or people rushed the line, they fired tear gas and flashbangs. Escalation. More rocks thrown as federal vehicles pulled out, attacking federal officers. We should note this is a crime. This is a serious crime. Even if ICE isn't welcome in your zip code, there's only so much you can legally do about it. More scenes from the L A Times. Shortly after they left, one protester brought out a trash bag and set it ablaze. A couple of others pushed a cart with concrete blocks from Home Depot and they lined the road to block vehicles. One man smashed the block and spread the broken pieces on the crowd. A U.S. marshal bus pulled up. The crowd swarmed it, kicked it, tried to push it back until tear gas ended that scene. By 7pm about 100 protesters were near the 710 Freeway and Alondra. Rocks and bottles were thrown at L A County deputies. At least three fires were set, including a car torched in the middle of the intersection. I think that's what we saw in the news. Louisiana Times Again, throughout the night, deputies and demonstrators engaged with each other, with demonstrators launching fireworks that exploded near the line of deputies and police vehicles. I would note that we know now their fireworks would be unclear in the moment what these things exploding around you might be if you are a federal agent. Louisiana Times Again, they use cars, these are the protesters to drive toward deputies in an attempt to scare them, prompting the deputies to fire rubber bullets, tear gas and flashbang grenades at the vehicles to attempt to scare them or if you're a deputy, to plausibly kill you. How do you know until the moment of impact or near impact? So this was not a peaceful protest and the less than lethal weapons were used. Actually stuck to that description. Thank goodness. Of course, was not a good faith effort by the federal government to find the best equitable solution. Trump wants a fight the people of Los Angeles want to defy what is a legal exercise of federal power that the citizens of the U.S. though not California, endorse. Trump is escalating because that's what Trump does. He's probably making the solution worse than the problem. That's also what he does. Recognize his game plan. But even if you want ICE out of east la, you should understand this conflagration, this fever pitch, it was not inevitable, might very well result in much worse circumstance than before any state assemblyman ever took to Instagram. The fires, the tensions, the passions, it all was stoked. And I don't see anyone in this situation who has a damper. And that's it for today's show. Corey Warren produces the Gist. Astrid Green runs our Social. Kathleen Sykes is the editor of the Gist List. Check it out. Mike pesket.substack.com the CBS O of Peach Fish Productions is Michelle Pesca. Right there at her side is Ashley Kahn. She's going to take over someday. Leo Baum is doing very important project for us in his internship capacity. Improve GPRU do Peru. And thanks for listening.