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- [00:01]
Joe Gatto
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- [00:30]
Mike Pesca
The GIST is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. It's Friday, March 21, 2025 from Peach Fish Product the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca Mark this day perhaps as a turning point in the Woke wars, or Maybe just part seven of chapter 30. But maybe we will mark this as a moment because Snow White was released and ignored, the production is a relic of a time when sensitivities overrode entertainment. Some backstory. Peter Dinklage, in an interview with Marc Maron, voiced displeasure at the prospect of dwarves being depicted as mythological CA dwelling figures. And boom, off to work. Disney's PR people go. Quote to avoid reinforcing stereotypes from the original animated film, we are taking a different approach with these seven characters and have been consulting with members of the dwarfism community. And in fact, it was reported that the dwarves would not be dwarves, but simply magical creatures. But other members of the little person community were not bashful, as the Washington Post reported today. Lesser known dwarf actors such as Tara Jolie told Indiewire that many of her peers would love to perform in a Snow White remake, and she criticized Disney for listening to Dinklage instead of an entire community. The star of Snow White, the titular Snow White, Rachel Ziggler, also along the way insulted Trump and everyone who voted for him, which presumably includes many ticket buyers. She wished that they would never know peace. She then deleted that post. Also at a Disney fan event in 2022, this thing has been brewing for a long time. She called Prince Charming, quote, a guy who literally stalks Snow White literarily, I think she must have meant and if at this point you're already saying, oh brother, this is getting grim, there is more. The Washington Post and their rundown of the controversy had a section called Gal Gadot and Gaza. Okay, the actress who plays the evil queen is Israeli and Gal Gadot Gaza alliteration, so I'll allow it. But what is the connection between this particular actress and Gaza? I will quote the Washington Post. The lack of cast events has fed tabloid rumors of behind the scenes tensions between Zegler and her co star Gadot, based largely on their opposing views on the Israel Gaza war, they write. Zegler has long opposed Israel's occupation of Gaza and other Palestinian territory. After the first trailer for Snow White premiered online in August, she thanked fans for watching and added in an X post, always remember Free Palestine. Well, that seems a little off message given the event. If you're trying to sell a movie, since you already insulted Trump fans and fairytale fans, I guess going all in and knowing your only possible audience are members of the Columbia University law and occupation community is a certain kind of marketing play. But what of Godot? Here's what the Post writes. Godot, who is Israeli and previously served in the Israel Defense Force, has been a vocal supporter of the country. I stand with Israel and you should too, she wrote on Instagram shortly after the war started in 2023. The world cannot sit on the fence while these horrific acts of terror are happening. Shortly after the war started certainly makes it seem that she weighed in on the war just as Rachel Zegler weighed in against the war. I looked it up. That post in question was put up on October 7, the ground 20 days away. Her country had just been subject to its worst attack in history. This wasn't a debate over geopolitics. Of all the ways to frame it Washington Post this was not the fairest of them all. It might not have even actually been a debate among co stars, just tabloid rumors thereof. But I do think it provides a chapter end for an era and an error engaging the public's appetite for entertainment wrapped in activism. The film is projected by Variety to underperform, vastly underperform the traditional Disney remake. Which is a shame, because a friend of the Gist plays one of the seven Dwarves. He, by the way, in real life is not of large stature, but probably not by enough to satisfy critics. And really, whoever is like six out of seven Dwarves, they're not happy. And in this case, no one will live happily ever after on the show today. A loss for Ukraine. But first, Joe Gatto is one of the original impractical jokers. He's doing Stand up now with a special named after his esthetic or perhaps his life motto, Messing with people. In this interview we go pretty in depth about how to conceive of and pull off sometimes humiliating stunts without having people hate you. In fact, with having them kind of love you, it helps to be an extremely charming and kind guy, as you will find Joe Gotto to be. He's up next.
- [05:52]
Joe Gatto
It's home from work we go.
- [05:56]
Mike Pesca
I hope, I hope I'm here to talk about True Work. True Work is hellbent on creating the most technical, high performance workwear in the world. Don't let that intimidate you. Do let it intimidate the elements. But True Work is a coherent story that begins in the Colorado mountains. A trade worker said, I'm not going to wear jeans to do this work. I'm not going to wear material that gets wet and bogged down. It's engineered for maximum comfort and efficiency, but I wear it casually all the time, and I mean all the time. I wear the jacket, I wear the pants, which is a nice rust color yellow. It has a lot of pockets. It is soft, it is stretchy, it is sweat wicking. And people who wear True Work love true work. Over 50,000 5 star reviews and countless stories from trade pros in every state and in every job across the country. Even actuarial accounting, I assume. It does look good. Check out the full LineUp and get 15% off your first order at True Work.com the Gist. That's 15% off at T R U E W E ERK.com/the Gist. Joe Gotto is a man after my own soul. He is a Staten island native. He was friends with his high school pals. They went on to form a comedy group. They went on to do a little TV show called Impractical Jokers. Joe now does stand up on his own. His new special is called Messing with People. You get it? It's part of the brand. He's got a podcast called Two Cool Moms. Yeah, a little discordant cuz he's not a mom, but he's always liked cool moms. And Joe, welcome to the Gist.
- [07:49]
Joe Gatto
Thank you so much for having me.
- [07:51]
Mike Pesca
Is stand up always something you wanted to do or. It seems like more a natural progression. I'm a funny guy. I can make people laugh and enjoy themselves. Tell me about that.
- [08:00]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, I think it's. I think it was part of the next era of like trying to, you know, figure out how to keep entertaining live. I mean, it's funny. Cause Today, yesterday was March 4th and that was 25 years to the first time we performed live as a group. Our first show for the Tenderloins improv troupe, Me and the Guys was March 4, 2000. So I've been performing live for a minute. So performing live was never a thing. Now different mediums, they're always in. There were improv shows, sketch comedy shows, live with the boys in our, you know, Impractical Jokers tour. And then now stand Up Solo is the. Is the next iteration of this.
- [08:36]
Mike Pesca
Where was Your first show 25 years ago?
- [08:38]
Joe Gatto
The Producers Club. We put up our own things. It was on top of this restaurant, this 50 person theater, self produced. Two shows sold out. We all brought our moms and families. Staten island came out and represented.
- [08:51]
Mike Pesca
That's the good thing about being in a group with four people.
- [08:54]
Joe Gatto
You know, you're only required for 25% of the ticket sales.
- [08:57]
Mike Pesca
Right. And also like four people where most of them are Italian. Those are some big families, usually demographically.
- [09:03]
Joe Gatto
Sure.
- [09:03]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. So how do you know if you're good or actually popular? You gotta leave Staten island. Right. To test the theory for sure.
- [09:10]
Joe Gatto
You gotta see when you stop telling family about the shows and see who shows up, I think, you know, that's what the real test is. When you have strangers in the seats. Not obligated family. Like, it's a wedding.
- [09:20]
Mike Pesca
Did you guys, as the Tenderloin, get big online or did you tour live and build the audience? Huge.
- [09:27]
Joe Gatto
Huge online. It was a mixture of both, but huge online because back then it was MySpace and YouTube and the algorithm was actually editors of the homepage who were people. And people became fans of us and kept featuring us. So we kept getting featured on the homepages and the top comedian lists on MySpace. So it shared all our stuff which linked to the YouTube. And on the YouTube homepage was all our latest sketches. And we were just cranking them out because we were part of this sketch comedy, like program. It was like a competition called it's yous Show. And they gave you once a week you'd have to put up a themed sketch. So for like 11 weeks in a row, we were putting up a really funny sketch that was just garnering attention.
- [10:06]
Mike Pesca
You know, would someone win the competition or was it just.
- [10:09]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, it was. It was a pilot for Fox. Right, Right. So they were trying to do. It was hosted by Carson Daly. And it was that time when sketch comedy, like the Internet took off and people like, how do we put the Internet on tv? The thing that really matters. And they came up with this format of basically like in America's Funniest Videos, where instead of like those videos, it was sketch competition. So they got people Sketch groups to submit on this theme. And then a studio audience would watch them and select their favorites. And whoever won, we get the money. So we ended up winning $100,000 on a failed pilot that never saw air, but they still had to pay us.
- [10:44]
Mike Pesca
Was this the era of human giant and widest kids, you know, or was this even before then?
- [10:49]
Joe Gatto
No, it was. It was during or just after, you know, around. Around there at the same time.
- [10:54]
Mike Pesca
And did the people did all these sketch artists? I know you're doing your own thing in your own places, but was there any sort of interacting with each other or getting to know each other across Pol In New York, we used to.
- [11:05]
Joe Gatto
Go to UCB all the time. You know, our Brett Citizens brigade. When, you know. And that was. That was the. You know, we would just go to all the shows. We go to the ASCAT show and watch, like, people perform. Like, I remember seeing, you know, Amy Poehler, Horatio Sands, all these people. I had befriended Rob Riggle, Rob Hubel, a bunch of guys there. I actually built Rob Riggle's first website. So I was a tech guy. And the way I got into, like, with performers, it got out pretty quickly that I could do people's websites and reels for them because I edited it as well. So all these comedians and I ended up doing robriggle.com for him. We laug about it now. I'm friends with him now. And like, I built his first website for him and did his first demo reel. And I was like, you know, you owe me.
- [11:42]
Mike Pesca
Wow.
- [11:43]
Joe Gatto
I was like, you're welcome.
- [11:45]
Mike Pesca
Was. Was that your niche with the group or did you. Okay, so what, did all the other guys. And these are all the guys from Impractical Jokers were in the Tenderloin?
- [11:53]
Joe Gatto
Yes, the Tenderloins were. Our fourth member was a guy named Mike, but he had dropped out because he got a real job and a real family.
- [12:00]
Mike Pesca
Screw you guys.
- [12:01]
Joe Gatto
Like, he grew up. Like, he had. He grew up too quick. You know, he's like, you got a. You got a real gig. You became like vice president of a, I think a PR firm or whatnot. And which I think he's the president of now. He's like, he's doing great. We're still friends. He's got a beautiful family. And, you know, he just grew up quicker than we did, you know, so he detriment financially. Yeah.
- [12:18]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
- [12:19]
Joe Gatto
So he dropped out. He's doing fine. He's doing fine for himself. So he dropped out. And then Q was always featured, a featured guest on our shows. He would do something called the Monologues where he would come up and tell a story and we would build off that story. So he just was a natural fit. When we had the whole. And we started moving into sketch comedy, filmed sketch comedy, he was a great writer. So we brought him in and said, hey, do you want to do this with us? And we started doing it. And he added a real cool voice to the whole thing. Different perspective, a little darker humor. And it was just a really. That was the magic sauce, I think the four of us together to really take off.
- [12:52]
Mike Pesca
When you were at ucb, was there any rivalries? Because there's a way to do it. There's a. There's us classes to graduate from at ucb and sometimes sketch people are a little territorial. This is the way to do it is not the way to do it. You guys were friends from high school. Your auditions were just like the four funniest guys from your high school. Right. So did they look at you as like, who are these guys? They're not as, I don't know, official or as artistic as the rest of the UCB type people?
- [13:24]
Joe Gatto
No. When we. So we didn't take classes there, but we were known there because we'd always show up and watch and laugh and then talk to people after and learn and things. And then people started finding out about our shows because it was like, who are these. Who are these tenderloins? Guys that are putting these shows up, you know, kind of things. And there was a lot of cross pollination in that sense, but we didn't really take the classes. I think when we did jokers and the comedy scene, we came onto the comedy scene, people who were comedians quickly realized it's not a basic cable reality prank show, it's a well thought out comedy. Like, comedians could see that instantly. You know, it's a written thing where we kind of think about what we're gonna say, have ideas, we develop these sketch ideas to create a scenario where comedy could be birthed from. So I think there was a lot of that. And really quickly inside, we were pretty accepted by comedians because it was like, these guys have created something that lightning in a bottle kind of deal that is funny and well known and loved very quickly. And these were all people we were fans of. You know, these are people that, you know, we realized. I still remember we went to the Grown Ups 2 premiere and Adam Sandler was in front of us and he turned around, he was like, hey, Joe. And I was like, what? You know, like that. And he like, Took a picture with me and Murray. Like, it was crazy, you know, his kid watching show, whatever. And he was, you know, just like, oh, I'm a huge fan. You know, you guys are great. Keep doing your thing. And I was like, there's nothing that's like, you think about this little basic cable show that you're doing and how it just kind of infiltrated inside the comedy world, which is really cool.
- [14:52]
Mike Pesca
You guys didn't just let her rip and think that, oh, weird funniness will happen. There was a lot of planning out. There is, I would imagine, something very close to a writer's room. But before that, when you pitched. So here you are getting heat. You're winning these competitions. You're involved in the comedy scene in New York. Not just in a website building angle.
- [15:17]
Joe Gatto
A user interface design capacity, c but.
- [15:21]
Mike Pesca
Actual, you know, funny stuff on the inside. Tell me about why wasn't the way for you guys to get big, to take the sketch that you were known for and do something in the world of sketch or something that was.
- [15:34]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, we tried.
- [15:35]
Mike Pesca
No, right? Didn't have fiction. It just didn't happen. And so you needed an angle.
- [15:38]
Joe Gatto
You had somebody advise you. We had a sketch show. Yeah, we had a sketch show with Spike tv and it didn't go. Yeah, so we did this spike TV show. But what it did do was get the. You know, we had gotten the attention of an agent. An agent was like, these guys have something here. They we should take them around. But then our agent told us we were too old for tv.
- [15:54]
Mike Pesca
Right?
- [15:55]
Joe Gatto
And he was like. Because. So when they bought Jokers, it was a bidding war between MTV and TruTV. And so we tried sketch. Sketch didn't work. And then our last ditch effort was like, let's be our funniest. What's our funniest? And this embarrassment comedy is how we've always made each. I've always made those guys laugh that way. It was always natural. And it was like, we should just capture it. So we literally took out our cell phones, did a sizzle reel, and we went around and we called it Mission Uncomfortable. And we went around New York and did a couple stupid things. You know, there was a. There was a screening of a Tyler Perry movie in Times Square. I had to get up in the middle of it and tell everybody I farted and excused myself. So I did it in a hu. Way and I went down over the steps. I didn't use the steps. I climbed over people and people for some reason thought it was hysterical and started applauding me and the guys are like, are you kidding me? How does that even happen? You know? Then Murray went and people said, shut up, Sit down. It was just instantly showed the dynamic, you know? And then we just did another stupid one where we had to ask as grown men, we were in our late 20s, where we could go to the bathroom, but we couldn't say bathroom. Like, excuse me, where can I make a peeps? Where can I do a poops? And that's what we would say and not laugh. We had to try. And we just crumbled because it was just so stupid, you know, we made this great, like, reel. When the reel came in and we showed it, it got in a bidding war between MTV and True tv. And MTV wanted to recast. Doesn't make it a strip show, meaning we go five days a week with a different cast. Young kids doing these challenges.
- [17:09]
Mike Pesca
Right?
- [17:10]
Joe Gatto
And True TV was like, no, you guys are the secret sauce. Let's put you guys. Make us make you guys the poster children and do it. And it literally came down to a coin flip. There's four of us, two and two. Where we were split and we flipped the coin and True TV came out.
- [17:24]
Mike Pesca
Which side were you on?
- [17:26]
Joe Gatto
I was on True tv.
- [17:27]
Mike Pesca
See, you nailed it. Because.
- [17:29]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, well, I mean, I got like, we don't know. I mean, I could have been a multibillionaire. Now if we sold it to my mtv, who knows?
- [17:34]
Mike Pesca
I guess. But, you know, they wanted to do a version of Wild and Out. Right? We've seen the shows that they do where they get really good looking, younger people to do it. Master Kushner or whatever. I don't know. It doesn't seem to me like that is the path to success. The deal with True TV must have been like, aren't you guys doing, like, Murdered Wives and no comedy?
- [17:53]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, no comedy. They were. They were.
- [17:55]
Mike Pesca
Was that the two who voted against it? Was that a big stumbling block? What is True?
- [17:59]
Joe Gatto
That was a very great point. It was a very great point. Literally what the point was, we work so hard. The two points we were against of is like, you want to be at that time, MTV was the place. You know, it was like, you want to be here versus do you want to put your comedy and fate in the hands of strangers? Yeah, like, that was. Those were the two. And they're both impossible. You land on one or the other. And both. Both agreed with the other point. It wasn't like, you're crazy. Like, we both were like, wow. I was like, I feel these are the Two points. I feel more strongly about this one than that one. And you're both extremely valid points. So you're not. We weren't arguing about it. It was like, this is where we ended up.
- [18:30]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
- [18:30]
Joe Gatto
And it was like, okay, so what do we do?
- [18:32]
Mike Pesca
Harder discussion to have. It's a nice and polite and high minded discussion, but there's no way to.
- [18:37]
Joe Gatto
Never got heated, never got people trying to sell each other. We never talked to each other that way. It was always like, look, this is my point, this is how I'm thinking. You respect me as a person, a friend, a comedian. This is how I'm thinking, maybe you'll come that way, maybe you won't, you know. So it was like a little bit of that. There's only been, you know, we were four, so it was always. There's only been like three or four coin flips in our whole history together, which is insane. Like we were really on the same page a lot. So, you know, that's what it came, it came down to. But true TV, we literally season one, they were Court TV till 5pm they didn't even have original programming. They showed litigation and then they switched over to mainly tow truck reality shows. We aired between Lizard Lick Towing and South Beach Tow in the middle. Four middle aged fat guys running around the supermarket causing a problem. You know what I mean? So it was like just such a weird place to be. And to their, you know, to their credit, they turned that network on its ear. They were like, we're a comedy now. Yeah, this is a runaway hit. Let's, let's, you know, embrace it. And they tried a bunch of comedies, you know.
- [19:33]
Mike Pesca
Did you guys keep the coin?
- [19:35]
Joe Gatto
That's very funny because in our spin off show Dinner Party that we did during COVID one of the conversations in that was about that coin and Q actually had a different coin. And I don't think we have the coin anymore Q was looking for because it was. Q has like a bunch of like he like coins and whatnot. So he had one and I think we were at his place, maybe I forgot where it was, but he had a coin and that was the coin. And then we recreated in Dinner Party where we made the flip of the coin kind of thing as a shout out to that.
- [20:05]
Mike Pesca
The other aspect of it, debating between the two in 2000, what was it around 2010 you were making the decision. Yeah, yeah. MTV was iconic and for people of our generation, we are similar ages. It, it's cool. It was just the coolest thing and it's also cool and youth and a great brand. And since then, I don't want to say anything that's not unkind, but the brand has become much less of what it was. And I was thinking about this the other day. This might blow your mind. So what's the iconic picture and symbol of mtv? The MTV Music Award shows A what? A statue of what?
- [20:45]
Joe Gatto
The astronaut.
- [20:46]
Mike Pesca
Right, the astronaut. The guy. The Neil Armstrong landing on the moon. The time from the moon landing to the first video On MTV was 14 years. The time. Just 14 years. The time from the first video on MTV until now is 45 years. Really?
- [21:07]
Joe Gatto
Yeah. Right.
- [21:08]
Mike Pesca
Because it was 1981, I think. Yeah. Or maybe it was 82, but still, I mean, so that's not even a close amount of distance. The nostalgia we have for MTV being cool is sometimes like, one way to look at it is three times the nostalgia for MT that MTV had for the moon landing.
- [21:26]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. I mean, it all goes through a lens though, right? It's all nostalgic and. Or, you know, everybody gets their spotlight, moves to somebody else. It's ebb and flow. People go out of business is their mergers, there's whatnot. You know, something becomes the cool one, Comedy Central becomes it, and then it becomes. It's mtv, then it's Netflix, then it's, you know, whoever it is now, you know, so I. I really just think it. It's interesting to think back in the day, there was just so many less options, even with cable. You know, there was so many left side. But now there's, you know, there's so many more ways to get it out there for content creators, even in your own ways. Like, I think about if YouTube was then when we started what it is now, would we even have needed a network? You know, like, YouTube now is a powerhouse, but that's how it's like, worse.
- [22:12]
Mike Pesca
And the algorithm might have been pushing you into things that you didn't want to do. Like you basically did what you wanted to do.
- [22:18]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, sure.
- [22:19]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. So here is my. I'm sure other people have said this, but the secret sauce between. But that explains why Impractical Jokers has been so successful. Was so successful for all the years you were on is humanity. You guys clearly love each other, and almost all the time the joke is on you. And if someone's uncomfortable with the joke, you'll pixelate them out. Or maybe not even use it. And there's an extent to which the torture doesn't go. Like you could, you know, if there's one of the punishments, you know, you might put spiders on one of the guy's bodies, but maybe not their face. You won't really physically torture them. And I think even without explicitly communicating it, the audience, that resonates with the audience. I mean, do you think that's accurate?
- [23:08]
Joe Gatto
For sure. I mean, we all signed up for it. That's the thing. So nobody's getting bullied. Right. Everybody knows what they're in for. You can say no. Right. So it's just if you want to or not, if you want, try to endure it. Like. So that was. That was the premise that really helped it all. At the end of the day, it's like, we're friends. When the show stops, that's your best friend. So, like, you're not going to do things your best friend, that you're going to do it, you know, that you are going to go. People are like, is anything off limits? Yeah, I mean, of course we're friends. I'm not going to put my friends through something that's going to be terrible. If something was really pushing them, like we would ask them if they'd want to do it or would that be possible to do it. I wouldn't throw Marina snake pit, knowing how scary he is with snakes. To be like. And listen, we have this really idea, funny idea for a snake. If you're up for it, would you do something? And if he says no. Okay. Then that snake punishment doesn't happen. But if he says, all right, is it funny? Yeah, it's funny. Trust us, it's going to be good. All right, I'll do it. Then it's different, you know, so those kind of things are parts of the show. I mean, when you say the humanity, I mean at its core it's friendship on display. So everybody relates to that. I think that's really good. I think that's why a lot of the reboots and spin offs and attempts all failed. You can't cast what we have. Everybody knows it, you know.
- [24:14]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. And sometimes the ones or the pranks, let's call it, that get the most attention are just the most outrageous. And those people will become notorious. Right. You could get notorious for being a prank, but you don't become beloved and.
- [24:27]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, that's great. That's a great way to put it. Yeah.
- [24:29]
Mike Pesca
Are you the. I think you're the only. Everyone knows Candid Camera, but it was many years ago and I've actually, that's what we.
- [24:35]
Joe Gatto
That was. That was it, man. That was it. We were basing Our stuff on that. But even Candid Camera, see, there's a difference. Because Candid Camera people got pranked. And then there was a love for Candid Camera. When you heard the words you're on Candid Camera, people will be like, am I? Like, it didn't matter what just happened to you because you were part of a family and a culture and of something loved. You became a cast member of a beloved institution instantly. Right. For us, when we were like, you're an impractical jokers. They're like, what the hell is that? Because if people knew about the show, it didn't make. It didn't work if they were on it. So they couldn't be on it.
- [25:06]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
- [25:06]
Joe Gatto
So anybody that we're literally trying to explain our show to people to get them to want to be on it. So we were behind a big challenge there. We couldn't tell people, you're on Jokers, and they're like, yay. Because we didn't want them to know it. If they knew it, they got skipped.
- [25:19]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
- [25:20]
Joe Gatto
Anytime somebody recognized us, you're out the door. Sorry, it just doesn't work.
- [25:23]
Mike Pesca
And in later seasons, you could tell that that became a harder and harder or higher and higher hurdle. I was watching. Was it the very first episode when you guys were working at a White Castle?
- [25:33]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, the first episode was.
- [25:34]
Mike Pesca
And is that the White Castle in Lynbrook, by the way?
- [25:36]
Joe Gatto
Brook? Yeah, that's the White Castle I went to.
- [25:39]
Mike Pesca
Right next to the train station.
- [25:40]
Joe Gatto
Yeah, there's this one we filmed there twice. And then there was one, I think, in Massapequa that had the drive through. So that was the drive through one.
- [25:46]
Mike Pesca
Ladies and gentlemen, the White Castles of Nassau County. So as I was watching that, I said to myself, this is great. The reactions are great. I bet by season four, a full third of these people are in the exact demographic that would be watching impractical jokers.
- [26:01]
Joe Gatto
But you make adjustments, you do. You do little things, like you learn, you know, like I said, we're seasoned comedians, too. We're not just friends, you know, mess around. They're like, okay, how can we reinvent? How could we do things? How we. How could we stack the deck so we know people aren't going to know us? So the focus groups came more and more into play because we could literally have people pre interviewed. And just one of the questions has, what shows do you watch? And highlight circle the ones you watch. And if you picked in Practical Jokers, you didn't get picked for the thing. And then when people came into the room. We would check each other's marks in. I'd be at the desk when it was Murray's turn. They didn't recognize me. They're not going to recognize Murray. You're in on the show, you know, so it'll be like that kind of stuff. We do those little tricks that would help.
- [26:36]
Mike Pesca
Joe Gatto is one of the original impractical jokers. His new special is a description of his life messing with people. Thanks so much, Joe.
- [26:46]
Joe Gatto
I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me.
- [26:48]
Mike Pesca
And I subscribe to Pesca plus and you should too. I give myself a free subscription for you. It'll be relatively cheap. You could get the ad free version. You could get the bonus content version. I bring it up now because Joe Gatto and I we talked and talked and talked and it was an entertaining talk and exciting talk. And because of that talk, I had more more to give. And I'm giving it to you. If you go to subscribe.mike pesca.com for all of this and more. There is an April book club we are going to announce soon. Just don't get all the ads except maybe this one where it says subscribe to pesca plus@subscribe.mike pesca.com and now the spiel Ukraine is lost. I'm optimistic. I'm careful not to fall into despair or catastrophe, but I've concluded Ukraine is lost. Ukraine is going to lose this war. That Oval Office meeting, public embarrassment. You know, it doesn't actually matter. The administration doesn't care about preserving Ukraine's autonomy or saving Ukraine's children. And nothing would be different if Zelenskyy had played nice in that one day meeting. All that would have happened is that there would have been one fewer news cycle for Trump officials and factotums to praise him as strong and worthy of deference.
- [28:23]
Joe Gatto
And that's what Zelensky did, unfortunately, is he found every opportunity to try to Ukraine splain on every issue.
- [28:29]
Mike Pesca
And by the way, when I said children save their children, it is because the government, our government, just defunded a Yale based project tracking the many 20,000 estimated Ukrainian children abducted and taken into Russia. This is a crime against humanity. Yes, it is. And the US doesn't care. Will not be pursuing the return of kidnapped children as a condition of peace. There seem to be no conditions of peace. I don't know, maybe Putin can say something or do something personally insulting to Donald Trump's interests and then things would change. But right now, Trump's interest and Putin's interest are almost perfectly aligned. Freeze. Fighting right now. Freeze. Russian gains leave Ukraine vulnerable. You know, the only reason Kiev is not in the hands of Russian actors, who is one thing, it's that the US Is so enormously powerful. And before Trump was elected, we didn't want Russia to succeed militarily. And there is no conflict in the world that America, if it really cared, couldn't have an enormous effect on. Now, notice I didn't say there's no conflict that the US Couldn't win, because right now you're hearing this and you're saying, wait a minute, we're always told that the US Is so enormously powerful, but did we win the war in Iraq? Did we win the war in Afghanistan? Sure. Superpower status, but we didn't win those. Well, I would say in Iraq, we did win. Iraq's leader was deposed, killed, and we brought democracy to Iraq. Ok, the leaders that the Iraqis want aren't perfectly aligned with who we want the Iraqis to want, but that's democracy. The US now buys oil from Iraq, Iraq is a US Ally, and Iraq buys from the United States, I guess some military contractors. The reason that we didn't quote Windows wars is that the US Defies winning so enormously high. We will not accept a 2 to 1 trade in casualties. We will not accept a 50 to 1 trade in casualties. Killing more of our enemy is so far from the criteria that America uses to define if we win a war. We will not accept a timeline of decades for defining a win. Our adversaries will accept that ratio of losses they have to. Our adversaries will accept a timeline of decades. Don't even think about the wars. Maybe hard to get your head around. Just think about a couple of distinctions. US Battles that the US has lost, Mogadishu, Black Hawk down, huge embarrassment for the Clinton presidency. What happened there? 18 soldiers lost their lives, but so did 2,000 Somalis. Yes, the US lost, but we lost at a ratio of, what is that? More than 10 to 1. Take the withdrawal of Afghanistan, which Trump ridiculously calls perhaps the most embarrassing moment in the history of our country. What are the facts of that? At Abbey Gate, 13 members of the US military were killed, but so were over 150 Afghans, some by suicide bombers, many by the United States firing upon them. But more importantly, why did the US So desperately have to leave Afghanistan? It was a, quote, forever war and we were winning it. Right. But the deaths at Abby Gate were the first in a year and a half for U.S. troops in Afghanistan. We left because of this branding of forever war. And because 2500 little under that, US service members lost their lives. But the US and their allies killed almost or maybe even more than 1 0,000 Taliban. This is a war we lost because we define winning so prohibitively. And you know, that's a good thing. That's generally a good thing. It's a sign of an advanced, flourishing country that should rightly be very sensitive to the costs of war. But it does mean it's very hard for the US to conceive of a long, hard conflict which ends in glory, parades, a shared story of sacrifice, of it all being worth it in the end. We haven't had that in 80 years. But as adverse to loss of life or to some extent to limb and brain as we are as Americans, we do always spend money for some other entity to fight on behalf of the US interests. It has been for the last 70 years the story that have others are willing to lose their lives in a cause that we deem not even righteous, but in the interests of the United States, we will give those fighters the means to pursue their cause. And let me tell you, the means are massive. The means are impressive, and in these battles, the means are often overwhelming. U.S. munitions, U.S. equipment, U.S. technology is awesome overwhelming. It's also awesomely expensive. A Himars missile cost $150,000. That's just one. We sell them in pods of six. That's $1 million right there. An F16 Fighting Falcon, which, like the high Mars, has been used in the theater in Ukraine to great effect. Those can cost between 60 and $70 million each. Now, the F22s, those cost over $300 million each by some credible calculations. We won't give those to the Ukrainians to fight. But for the last 50 years, we definitely have decided to accept a trade off of expense and military wins. But no more. This is an exception to that. Trump says it's about money. I think it's about his perennial sensitivity to being ripped off and made a sucker of. Plus, there is, you know, you can't deny that there is definitely a strongman tropeism going along. Zelensky's appeal to most of us in the west, right, not just the Biden administration, but the majority of legislators and other Western officials, the countries of Europe. You know, his great strength was he actually was a believer in democracy and certainly was an opposer of autocracy. Virtue has become flaw under Donald Trump. And the Russians have won. They will win. North Korea did very well, too. Fantastic. Now, as I see Zelensky forced to capitulate in all but some portions of his rhetoric. And Putin asked to accept nothing short of his wish list. The best Ukraine can hope for is Europe throwing up some roadblocks to keep Russia from rolling all over them. And then maybe in three years, nine months, a different US Leader makes different choices, though by then it may well be too late. And that's it for today's show. The Gist is produced by Cory Wara with cbso Michelle Pesca. Edgar Vasquez makes our video. He made this one into a video. You check them out at our YouTube page at Pesca Gist improve. And thanks for listening.