Kilmar, Detained and Unnamed

Summary

The Gist: Episode - Kilmar, Detained and Unnamed
Release Date: April 21, 2025
Host: Mike Pesca
Produced by: Peach Fish Productions

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I. Unpacking the Kilmar Abrego Garcia Case with Senator Chris Van Hollen

The episode opens with a critical examination of Senator Chris Van Hollen's handling of the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case. Senator Van Hollen appeared on multiple Sunday shows to discuss the wrongful detention of Garcia, a man abducted and imprisoned in El Salvador by the Trump administration. However, his approach raised eyebrows due to his reluctance to consistently use Garcia's first name, Kilmar, potentially undermining the humanization of the case.

• Key Points:

  • Wrongful Abduction Admission: The Trump administration acknowledged in federal court that Kilmar Abrego Garcia was wrongfully abducted and sent to El Salvador.
  • Senator's Reluctance to Use First Name: Despite multiple appearances, Van Hollen seldom used "Kilmar," opting instead for his last name, which diminished the personal narrative of Garcia's plight.
  • Critique of Senator's Tactics: Ben Lindbergh criticized Van Hollen for seemingly prioritizing procedural tactics over the gravity of Garcia's constitutional rights violations.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Ben Lindbergh [04:12]: "Every detail of this has been weighed. Give a margarita, don't drink the margarita. Don't say the name Kilmar."
  • Senator Chris Van Hollen [02:09]: "He and his administration are defying a court order to give Abrego Garcia his due process rights."

II. Tariffs and the Falkland Islands Economy: An Interview with Professor Michael Hart

A significant portion of the episode delves into international trade, specifically the impact of U.S. tariffs on the Falkland Islands. Professor Michael Hart, the former chief economist of the Falklands and now a professor at Oregon State University, provides an expert analysis of how high tariffs disrupt small economies reliant on free trade.

• Key Points:

  • Falklands' Trade Dynamics: The Falkland Islands export primarily fish, including squid and Patagonian toothpaste, and import necessities like oil and building materials. Their economy is heavily dependent on international trade, notably with Spain and the United Kingdom.
  • Impact of U.S. Tariffs: The U.S. imposed a staggering 42% tariff on Falklands' exports, primarily due to a significant trade deficit. This has led to increased prices in U.S. markets, causing American businesses to seek cheaper alternatives, thereby harming Falklands' economy.
  • Economic Principles of Free Trade: Hart emphasizes that tariffs based solely on trade deficits are economically unsound and advocate for truly free trade to allow nations to specialize and thrive.
  • Geopolitical Challenges: The Falklands face additional hurdles due to Argentina's embargo, which complicates their trade relations and economic stability.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Michael Hart [12:48]: "Tariffs at best are used to create equal ground where there's unfair practices going on."
  • Michael Hart [14:02]: "If you look at the Falklands, the price of their seafood in the U.S. goes up by 42%. So, you know, your restaurant bill goes up by a significant proportion because of that."
  • Michael Hart [19:33]: "Generally, every one of us who's an economist would generally say that free trade, lack of tariffs, open borders for trading goods is a good thing overall."

III. The Spiel: Exploring 'Full Ginsburgs' Through Trivia

In a lighter segment, Ben Lindbergh introduces listeners to the concept of "full Ginsburgs"—a term used to describe individuals who appear on every Sunday political show, much like William Ginsburg, Monica Lewinsky's lawyer during the scandal. This trivia segment highlights notable figures and their appearances, adding a humorous touch to the episode.

• Key Points:

  • Definition and Origin: The term "full Ginsburg" is derived from William Ginsburg's frequent media appearances and has since been adopted to describe similar patterns in political commentary.
  • Notable Full Ginsburgs: The segment mentions figures like Rick Lazio and Susan Rice, discussing their multiple appearances and the topics they addressed during these "full Ginsburg" moments.
  • Engaging Trivia: Listeners are encouraged to recall and identify various instances of full Ginsburgs, enhancing engagement through interactive content.

• Notable Quotes:

  • Ben Lindbergh [25:28]: "Who has the most full Ginsburgs? Well, on February 14, 2016, and February 21, 2016, this current member of the cabinet who is a three-time full Ginsburg did back-to-back full Ginsburg's..."
  • Susan Rice Clip [28:09]: "It's a very sad life. It's part of Satan, I think, to say that this is gay. It's anything but gay. It leads to the personal enslavement of individuals because if you're involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it's bondage."

IV. Concluding Insights

Mike Pesca wraps up the episode by reflecting on the multifaceted discussions ranging from international human rights issues to the intricacies of global trade and humorous media trivia. The episode underscores the importance of nuanced approaches in both political discourse and economic policies, emphasizing the need for genuine humanization in advocacy and the benefits of free trade for small economies.

• Final Thoughts:
  • Humanizing Individuals in Politics: Senator Van Hollen's approach to the Garcia case serves as a cautionary tale about the potential disconnect between political rhetoric and individual human experiences.
  • Economic Interdependence: The Falklands' reliance on free trade illustrates the delicate balance smaller nations maintain within the global economy, highlighting the broader impacts of protectionist policies.
  • Media Literacy: The exploration of "full Ginsburgs" encourages listeners to critically assess media appearances and the frequency of certain narratives in shaping public opinion.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Gist masterfully intertwines serious discussions on international law and economics with lighter, engaging segments that keep listeners both informed and entertained. Mike Pesca and his co-hosts navigate complex topics with clarity, providing valuable insights into how policies and media representations shape our understanding of global events.

Transcript

[Mike Pesca]

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[Ben Lindbergh]

Hi.

[Chris Van Ho]

If you're a Pesca plus subscriber, we.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Invite you to stick around after hours for this month's version of the book club. Just wanted to have my old friend Ben Limberg come by. It's one of America's best baseball writers and thinkers and talkers. So we will be talking babip, but.

[Chris Van Ho]

He'S also a great culture writer.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So we'll be talking Severance and White Lotus. Maybe we'll be talking about how all those things overlap.

[Chris Van Ho]

I don't know.

[Ben Lindbergh]

What would that be? Perhaps the suicide squeeze. I don't want to ruin anything from prestige TV or last night's Rocky's Mariners game.

[Chris Van Ho]

Tilt.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Rockies Mariners tilt. So Ben Lindbergh will be by in order to experience this.

[Chris Van Ho]

All the other book clubs.

[Ben Lindbergh]

All else we do live events. The show without any ads. The show with extra bonus content. Go to subscribe.mike pesca.com we're adding more every day. Hope to see you on the 24th. It's Monday, April 21, 2025. From Peach Fish Productions, it's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca. Chris Van Ho, senator from Maryland, was on every Sunday show this Sunday. He was talking about the man detained in El Salvador, Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Only he wasn't talking about Kilmar Abrego Garcia, where he was on Face the Nation.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

And in Abrego Garcia's case, the Trump administration admitted in federal court that he'd been wrongfully abducted and sent to a prison in El Salvador.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And here was his first mention of Kilmar Abrego Garcia on Meet the Press.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

My other major purpose was to just see Abrego Garcia to see if he's alive.

[Ben Lindbergh]

He's not saying the man's first name.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

He and his administration are defying a court order to give people to give Abrego Garcia his due process rights.

[Ben Lindbergh]

That clip was from cnn. Here he is on Fox.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

No evidence linking abrego Garcia to Ms. 13.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So I played the first reference every time. The natural place where a person would say Kilmar. He never said it then. He never said it at all. On none of the five Shows not even in the prerecorded tape they aired in the billboard on this week.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

We need to bring Mr. Abrego Garcia home to protect his constitutional rights to due process.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I think it's obvious why the gentleman he's talking about is named Kilmart, and the name Kilmar does not have the kind of associations that Chris Van Hollen is going for. Normally you'd want to humanize the person you're talking about by using his first name, but not if the first name is Kilmar. Van Hollen referenced Abrego Garcia's wife Jennifer as Jennifer on the Sunday shows, not Vasquez Sura, which is her last name. And if you think all of this is stupid or petty or insignificant or not something that would occur in a case of such high stakes that implicates constitutional law, well, then what you make of the following. And then at some point they bring in these, like, you know, glasses that.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

Look like margarita glasses.

[Ben Lindbergh]

That was asked by Jonathan Karl on this Week, and it was also asked on Meet the Press, where Van Hollen gave a highly forensic answer.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

They did order the waiters, the government people, to bring these two glasses that, you know, appear to be margaritas. I have no idea. We didn't touch them. And they tried to manipulate it to make it look like Mr. O'Brieger's garbage. Garcia's margarita had been drunk. In other words, the liquid was lower. But they screwed up in their scheme because if you look at the rims of the glasses, I don't know if it was salt or sugar, but there's no gap in them.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Every detail of this has been weighed. Give a margarita, don't drink the margarita. Let's look at how much liquid is left in the margarita. Don't say the name Kilmar. And I guess you can't criticize it. El Salvador's naive Bukele plays games with cocktails because he thinks it matters. And clearly the senator is avoiding the name Kilmar because he thinks it matters. What really matters is, of course, the fundamental principle of due process. But the actors at the center of this fight are not wrong as to how the public makes up its mind. Process does not land with the public. Beverages and unfortunate first names probably do on the show today. Well, those five Sunday show appearances, that phenomenon itself has a name, and we will discuss that at length and in the form of trivia in the spiel. But first, I got an email the other day from a listener. Hey, Mike, I hear you've been talking about tariffs. Indeed, I have. Well, I was the chief economist of a country that's currently being tariffed. You were? What is this country? I break out my flag book, I'm.

[Chris Van Ho]

Ready to book a flight.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And Michael Hart, who is now a professor at Oregon State University tells me I ran the economics of the Falklands. The Falkland Islands. And who am I as the host of a humble and curious podcast to say anything but you must come on and talk about tariffs and the Falklands. Michael Hart, up next. Today's episode is sponsored by Greenlight. Think about who taught you about money. If you're lucky like me. My dad was pretty good at it. He used to listen to a lot of financial talk shows on the radio, so I guess that helped. But you know, the schools don't do it. Not everyone's parents are adept or have the time or even have the knowledge. So most of us just learn about savings and budgeting way later than we should, you know, or we pick it up on the street or we get some bad ideas. But what you can do is give your kids a head start with Green Light. Green Lights, a debit card and a money app made for families that lets kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. You could send money to your kids and keep an eye on your kids spendings and savings and they'll learn to build confidence and skills. They'll find their way around money pretty easily. And the app also features this chores feature so you could set up a one time reoccurring chore and customize it to your household and then reward the kids with their allowance tied to actually doing a chore. It's easy, it's convenient. Millions of parents and kids are learning about money the Green Light way. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today at greenlight.com/the gist. That's greenlight.com/the gist to get started. Greenlight.com the gist.

[Chris Van Ho]

So you probably have been hearing or listening on this show to a lot of tariff news. And we can't help but talk about the island that is populated only by penguins, the herd of McDonald Island. It's just a great anecdote in this entire saga. But there's an island that's populated not only but largely by penguins, but also a lot of sheep. It is you. Perhaps you remember it from news of the early 80s, the Falkland Islands. And I was contacted by a former minister from the Falkland Islands, the chief economist of the Falkland Islands government. He is Michael Hart. He is now a professor at Oregon State University. And I just Got to ask him everything about trade, wars, the Falklands and, you know, the penguin to sheep ratio, all of it. Welcome to the gist, Professor Hart, as they said on the paper chase.

[Michael Hart]

Thanks very much, Mike. And I just say that I wasn't a minister.

[Chris Van Ho]

Not a minister.

[Michael Hart]

Not a minister. That's an elected position of the British government.

[Chris Van Ho]

But, yeah, so when, when did you serve as chief economist for the Falklands?

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, that was back about 20 years ago, from about 2001 to 2005. And since that time, I've spent my time providing advice to the private sector there, to industry, the fishing industry. So I've been heavily involved with the Falklands for about 25 years now.

[Chris Van Ho]

Falklands has 3,000 or so inhabitants.

[Michael Hart]

I think the last census was 3,670.

[Chris Van Ho]

Yeah, but like, when you're in Oregon for half the time, it's 3669. I mean, that's how sensitive.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, yeah, something like that. People go overseas a lot. Yeah.

[Chris Van Ho]

So is the chief economist also have to serve as, you know, the chief milkman and scorekeeper in soccer and all those other jobs?

[Michael Hart]

Not, not, not quite. You actually get to do a lot of things while you're down there in the public service. And the roles change over time, of course, and I think my official title is economic advisor and head of policy and planning. And so, yeah, you get involved in a lot of. A lot of things you wouldn't Norma to get. Expect to be involved in a larger country.

[Chris Van Ho]

What is trade policy like in general in the Falklands?

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, the Falklands are part of the international economy. We export about $350 million worth of products to the rest of the world. Import about, I think, 175 million. So we sell probably twice as many exports as imports. And we're dependent upon trade to survive.

[Chris Van Ho]

Because it is about 500 miles off the coast of Argentina, but Patagonia. So even South Argentina, right?

[Michael Hart]

Yeah. So you head all the way down to the bottom of South America, hang up left, and you go about 300 miles off the coast, about an hour by flights, and you end up in the Falkland Islands.

[Chris Van Ho]

Give me a sense of what the major exports are and what the major imports are.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, all the major exports are basically fish, fish and fish of different types. Squid and Patagonian toothpaste, Chilean sea bass to the rest of the world, mainly to Europe, some to north to the US and the main imports are oil for the housing and cars and things like that, and then a whole range of other, you know, kit set houses to Build homes and things like that. So the sort of things you expect a small island to be important from the rest of the world, and most of that comes from the uk.

[Chris Van Ho]

Is there wood on the Falklands?

[Michael Hart]

Nope. There are no forests on the Falkland Islands? No, it's a very treeless place. Grasslands all the way as far as the eye can see.

[Chris Van Ho]

So you need lumber, you need all sort of building material?

[Michael Hart]

Oh, yeah, all the building material comes from, comes from overseas. And for a long, long time, when, before the Panama Canal was built, ships would come around the Cape Horn, there they would get, they would get wrecked in the, in the big storms, and they would pull into the Falcons for repairs. Then they would be condemned by the local authorities, and they would use the cargo on board the vessels to build the houses and the warehouses and things like that.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So wait, very smart.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, very smart.

[Chris Van Ho]

Where the Falklanders setting up traps, they're like, oh, damn, another shipwreck.

[Michael Hart]

Oh, damn, another shipwreck. That's right. You know, another warehouse for the town.

[Chris Van Ho]

So I would assume that as dependent are as the Falklands are on imports, unlike a country like Bangladesh or some of these countries, which have a lot of trade barriers, I would assume the more free trade, the better for the Falklands.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, most definitely. I mean, that's what the Falklands thrive on and need is effectively free trade and tariff barriers and other trade barriers, you know, really threaten the livelihoods and the future of the, of the economy.

[Chris Van Ho]

So I don't understand then when I looked at the list of tariffs, what was the Falkland being tariffed at? On Independence Day, I was at 42%.

[Michael Hart]

I believe this is among the highest in the world. Among the highest in the.

[Chris Van Ho]

Slightly under the sort of honor, you.

[Michael Hart]

Know, we're winning so much, we had to be tariffs that highly, you know, so, yeah, so I think, you know, what it comes down to is I think we export something like 27. About 10% of our exports go to the U.S. i think last time, 20, 23, last figures, I have about $27 million of exports to the, to the U.S. and there was about $350,000 worth of imports. So there's a huge trade deficit with the, with the US and from the US perspective, and that led to the very, very high tariffs.

[Chris Van Ho]

All the calculation was based on was this trade deficit. Now, as an economist, just give me a second or two, a precis on the wisdom of that as a way to calculate a tariff.

[Michael Hart]

You know, I took many economic classes. I even stayed awake in some of them way back when.

[Chris Van Ho]

And the chief economist of a country.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Come on.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, And I think, you know, and you know, and I think that would be for any of us who studied economics and practiced economists, that would not be the way to calculate a tariff. You know, tariffs at best are used to create equal ground where there's unfair practices going on. So for example, another country tariffs you, so you tariff them to try and equate it. But you know, I also approach off in the accent a New Zealander and you know, in the 80s, New Zealand went through a period of open up its economy, eliminating subsidies, eliminating tariffs. And you know, one of the larger proponents of free trade because it's the way small economies thrive by trading with the rest of the world in the absence of barriers.

[Chris Van Ho]

Right. And so when you do, when one does calculate it based on just trade deficit, what sort of mistakes may be made or not? Not even unintended consequence. I'm thinking, I've heard some examples. Maybe you could fill us in on the idea that if that's your calculation, you're necessarily going to make the following mistake. Not just that it won't be a great or well calcul calculated tariff, but what you're going to be doing is what guaranteeing what?

[Michael Hart]

You're basically going to guarantee the, you know, the collapse of international trade by doing it that way. Because tariffs are so, so high, it's very hard for countries to adjust and they make no sense. I mean, so in one sense, if you look at the Falklands, the price of their seafood in the U.S. goes up by 42%. So, you know, your restaurant bill goes up by, you know, the price by a significant proportion because of that. And the US will simply buy its toothfish from Chile, which taxed at 10% or a lower rate. And so it's distortionary and it just, and there is nothing that a small country like the Fortune Falklands or the so so can do about that. They're not in a position to negotiate with the, you know, with this administration.

[Chris Van Ho]

Right. And let's also make clear the Falklands have what, no, or almost no actual tariffs or barriers for the United States goods. I mean, if that, if that were the case, you could understand some sort of tit for tariff. But there are no barriers for the Falklands. It wouldn't make sense for them to have barriers for incoming goods.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, I mean, the Falklands have some import tariffs, duties, I assume on imports as a small country is a way of raising income, but they're certainly not massive. And I think the trade with the US is $323,000, which I think is partly airplane parts, computers, and a few other things like that. So, you know, the reciprocal reciprocity there is just orders of magnitude different.

[Chris Van Ho]

Yeah. It just would seem that as a market, it's not even on the United States radar. But, of course, from the Falkland's perspective, the United States, I'm sure Argentina is the number one trade partner, but the United States has to be not close behind. It's. It's dominant.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah. So the United States is about fourth. So the largest is. Is actually, if you look at it, is Spain by a large proportion, it's a couple of hundred million dollars worth of exports and fish, and the exports to the US are about 10% of that. And so most of the trade is actually with Spain and other countries where we send the seafood products to actually very little with the uk. Most imports are from the United Kingdom, but most of the exports are actually to Spain, which is our main trading partners. We actually do not trade with Argentina. There's actually a very active embargo against the Falklands by Argentina that creates things to be quite. Makes things quite challenging for the Falklands at times because of that tension between the United Kingdom and the Argentino, the sovereignty. So that's. That's another factor that creates, you know, some. Some issues for the future of the Falklands and their own ability to feel confident in their place in the world.

[Chris Van Ho]

Yeah, forgot. Forgot about that little thing.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, that's like that. Yeah, yeah, that little conflict there.

[Chris Van Ho]

Yeah. So are you in touch with the government or people in the government or people who maybe have your old job in the economics department at the Falklands?

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, I'm in touch with the. With the. With the fishing industry down there in the private sector all the time. I'm a part of the South Atlantic and Farm for Research Institute, a senior fellow there, and work very closely with the private sector in the fishing industry and a number of different projects. I know the chief executive of the government, Andrea Clawson, who's the chief. I guess the chief bureaucrat in the Falklands, although I'm sure Andrew would not like that title. And. Yeah, and we talk about these things all the time, and we talk about the place, the Falklands in the world, and what policies will keep the fortunes thriving. I mean, it's one of the few places in the world that has no debt. You know, it has a. It has a surplus for the governments. The government brings in more money than it. Than it spends. It has, you know, a taxation system that generate. That is Basically fair and generally flat. And it's a very successful country. So we talk about things that are going to disrupt that, that economy in the future all the time.

[Chris Van Ho]

Wow. So I would imagine the Trump administration has bragged about. We have 75 countries already who've called. I would imagine a very small country like the Falklands, it would be hard to even get an official on the phone, even if, even if President Trump is happy that this quote, unquote brought South Korea to the negotiating table, as if, you know, just a request wouldn't bring South Korea or other countries to negotiate with the behemoth that is the United States. What about the Falklands? It has to wait in line behind a lot of people while suffering from gigantic tariffs, right?

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, I mean, most definitely. In fact, the Falklands aren't able to actually speak directly to the US on the, on their own. I mean, they're an overseas territory of the United Kingdom. So although they're self governing in many respects, they're actually the United Kingdom speaks for them on behalf of, on issues for international trade.

[Chris Van Ho]

So this is what this discussion is between you and I, Michael. We'll each be cutouts for our respective land.

[Michael Hart]

Exactly.

[Chris Van Ho]

I'll take it up the chain of command to Howard and you talk to your bureaucrat there in the Falkland.

[Michael Hart]

Exactly. And that's the way it works. But do you know, I was there last year, I was there this time last year in the Falklands and doing some work down there, and there was a delegation of US Congress people there, well, their staffers, and they spent a lot of time talking to people in the Falklands. So it's not as if the Falklands, you know, the US isn't aware of the Falkland Islands, and I'm sure they had a very good trip down there and very well treated and saw a lot of penguins, you know.

[Chris Van Ho]

Yeah. I'm sure as an economics expert, you're with the vast, vast, vast majority who look askance at tariffs, except for very limited reasons. But what about the overall issue of just. This is probably apart from your expertise with the Falklands, but what about the overall issue of if international trade and the way the US has gone about international trade over the last 20, 30 years has been a policy in error, if not a failed policy? What do you think of that?

[Michael Hart]

That, yeah, you have to look at. It's, it's challenging there, the whole issue. What would occurred in the absence of free trade? Would we still have a dynamic, you know, textile sector in the US or those jobs moved on, Would they become automated, would they be replaced? So it's very hard to look at those impacts. But generally, I think every one of us who's an economist would generally say that free trade, lack of tariffs, open open borders for trading goods is a good thing overall. It allows countries to thrive and what they do well, and allow other countries to export what they do well as well. I think the big, you know, the issue that many of us would look at, it's not just goods and services, it's not just the goods that are exported or imported, it's all this also the services. And countries like the US have massive trade gains in terms of services, in terms of what we, what the US exports, the rest of all in terms of services. So just looking at goods by themselves doesn't make any sense to us as economists. You need to look at the total picture and where everything bounces out in the world. And, you know, you would expect a country with a small proportion of the population, but with a very large economy to be a, you know, to be important for the rest of the world. It's, it's not a, not a bad thing.

[Chris Van Ho]

Tell me about the sheep, because I remember during the war, the phrase more sheep than people was. I mean, it was practically obligatory to say that about the Falklands. And I know, of course, the flag has a sheep right there on the crest.

[Michael Hart]

It certainly does. Yeah, yeah. So the falcons are well known for, you know, for their sheep farm and their exporter wool.

[Chris Van Ho]

And so they do export lot of wool, not just fish.

[Michael Hart]

No, they export about $4.6 million worth of wool. So it's very small compared to the fish exports. But all the way up until the conflict in 82, the Falklands were based upon their rural economy. The people who lived in the main town were the second class citizens. Everything was revolving around these farms that produced large amounts of wool that were sent to the UK for turning into carpets and clothing. And during that time, wools become less important in a smaller part of the economy, and fishing and other sectors have become more important. But the farming sector and the sheep are still very, very much part of the Falkendant identity. And many people would probably identify as farmers and, and with their agriculture than their fishing. There's a wonderful, a wonderful story is that you've heard of the, you know, we talk about the wind chill factor, of course, when you're in New York on a cold winter day. Well, the falcons on their radio broadcast a sheep chore factor. Sheep chill factor. The sheep chill factor. So it's the risk of the weather to newborn lambs in the four confines. And it's broadcast on the radio every day. So I'm not sure anywhere else in the world does that, but it's called the sheep chill factor.

[Chris Van Ho]

That's fantastic. And so let's bring it back to the tariff and trade and the economy. Are they very worried? They're more worried than even the average American is by a risk of recession at what these tariffs, tariffs emanating from thousands of miles away, might wreak.

[Michael Hart]

Yeah, so you know, the tariffs would impact about 10% of the Falkland Islands exports. But a very important part of those exports, which is the Patagonian two fish, a very important part of the local fishing industry. I think they're worried about the tariffs. They've been through tariffs before. They've been through Brexit, they've been through high tariffs in the EU as a result of other things. And they've weathered those and been very effective in advocating for themselves. I think the biggest threat to the Falklands is the overall disruption to the international trade and international economy rather than the tariffs themselves. So it's those second round effects. I think all things being equal, the Falkland Islands could weather and adopt strategies and to limit their exposure to tariffs. But the overall disruption to international trade and the world economy as we know it, which is what we're looking at at the moment, is I think is frightening for country that has rightful say in those matters.

[Chris Van Ho]

Michael Hart is a professor at Oregon State University and he was for a time the chief economist of the Falklands and of course a reader of the Economist magazine. Thank you. I'm giving them a free plug.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Thank you so much, Michael.

[Michael Hart]

Thank you much, Mike. It was great talking to you.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And now the spiel. So as we discussed up top on Sunday, Maryland Senator Chris Van Holland appeared on every show. Well, I mean, not every show, not the NBA post game shows, but all the what they call the Sunday shows. The topic was the detention of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. It's a serious topic and one hesitates to use the somewhat flippant phrase applied to whenever a guest hits every single Sunday show. But that phrase is the full Ginsburg. Ginsburg was William Ginsburg, Monica Lewinsky's lawyer in the first year and a half of that scandal. And they say he was the first to do the full complement of Sunday shows. But really, are we sure? Did anyone ever go back to check to see if Dean Rusk was one time on Face the Nation, Meet the press and ABC's predecessor to this Week? Remember this one from wherever thoughtful people.

[Michael Hart]

Search for answers to the issues of.

[Senator Chris Van Hollen]

The day, ABC News presents the award winning interview program Issues and Answers.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Putting issues right there in the title.

[Chris Van Ho]

Very solid, very proper, very post war.

[Ben Lindbergh]

So I was researching the full Ginsburg and there is a website that tracks it. It's on Wikipedia. Didn't take me much to find it. But since Ginsburg first executed the full Ginsburg, here are some full Ginsburg fun facts. There have been 38 full Ginsburg since the first Ginsburg. The second full Ginsburg. The Buzz Aldrin of full Ginsburgs was Rick Lazio. Remember him ran for Senate against Hillary Clinton. Want to guess who has the most full Ginsburgs?

[Chris Van Ho]

This is going to be a trivia.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Segment, by the way, so I'll present it as trivia. Trivia. Who has the most full ginsburgs? Well, on February 14, 2016 and February 21, 2016, this current member of the cabinet who is a three time full Ginsburg did back to back full Ginsburg's his first and second full Ginsburg. I'll give you the topic. Who would have done that in February of 2016? His second place comeback in South Carolina in the primary there. All right, let's go to the tape.

[Mike Pesca]

Senator Marco Rubio of Florida. Senator Rubio, welcome back to Meet the Press, sir.

[Michael Hart]

Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

[Mike Pesca]

You got it. Okay. Sorry about that. Let me start with how you feel about this win this second place finish last night you had every major endorsement that you could have had and yet you still finished a distant second in South Carolina. How do you look at this as a positive and not a negative?

[Ben Lindbergh]

And Marco Rubio answered, I don't know, maybe in nine years I'll get a gig working for the guy. Couple more full Ginsburg trivia questions. So since Hillary Clinton talked about her presidential run in a full Ginsburg in 2007, which by the way, that didn't take. But there have been only four female full Ginsburgs. Cabinet secretaries Kathleen Sibelius and Janet Napolitano were part of a government panel doing the full Ginsburg on the same day, May 9, 2009. To talk about what? Do you remember what might have been the very, very pressing topic to get not one but two cabinet secretaries. Maybe a hint is one's Department of Homeland Security, the other is Health and Human Services. What would they been talking about? May of 2009? Here's George Stephanopoulos with the answer. The swine flu. It continues to spread, but there are signs that the outbreak is smaller and.

[Mike Pesca]

Less severe than first feared.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Now here is my final full Ginsburg final Jeopardy. So Since Hillary Clinton 2007, Sebelius and Napolitano talking about swine flu in 2009, there have been 26 full Ginsburgs. The breakdown is 24 men, two women. Name the two women. Here are your hints. One was talking about her presidential bid in 2011. The primary would be in 2012. She was getting ahead of it. The other was to Discuss Benghazi in 2012. All right, that one I think you could get, you know, the person who talked about Benghazi and that film Innocence of Muslims. And this became a point of dispute. She blamed what we've come to call Benghazi mostly on the film. Here she is on Face the Nation doing that.

[Susan Rice]

What our assessment is as of the present is in fact what it began spontaneously in Benghazi as a reaction to what? But it transpired some hours earlier in Cairo where of course, as you know, there was a violent protest outside of our embassy sparked by this hateful video.

[Ben Lindbergh]

And that is Susan Rice, the other female post swine flu full Ginsburg gal. And what a gal she ran for President in 2012.

[Chris Van Ho]

Race.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Here she was on Meet the Press host David Gregory hosting, then confronting her.

[Chris Van Ho]

With her own words.

[Ben Lindbergh]

During a speech that you gave in 2004 at an education conference, you spoke openly and in detail about gays and lesbians. And I want to play just a portion of that speech and have you react to it.

[Susan Rice]

It's a very sad life. It's part of Satan, I think, to say that this is gay. It's anything but gay. It leads to the personal enslavement of individuals because if you're involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it's bondage.

[Ben Lindbergh]

I mean it could be a life spent flogging or spanking or just cuddling in cups of chamomile tea because you know nothing of gay people. Michele Bachmann, despite your many Ginsburg, you are talking out of your hat. But I hope you just listener today more than yesterday know a lot more about the full Ginsburg and possibly a lot more than you ever hope to know.

[Chris Van Ho]

That's it for the show.

[Ben Lindbergh]

Wara is our producer. The CBSO of Peach Fish Productions is Pesca Baum's our intern. And Green, does our social media improve GPRU do proo and thanks for listening.