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The gist is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses. Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com Switch and now t Mobile is in U S Cellular stores. Savings versus comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. It's Tuesday, December 30, 2025. From Pete Fisher Productions, it's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca. We've been bringing you a series of comics them from the funny, you should mention archives. We should. And I should mention, I should mention this isn't funny that we have video of all of this. It's often good to see the comics. They act with their faces. You know, Michelle Bouteau is our comic guest today and I had an interview with Michelle Bouteau, a New Yorker, someone who as you'll hear set some records, some distaff records selling out the Radio City Music hall and she deserves all the accolades and almost all the kudos. Wait, maybe it's all the kudos, some of the Hosanna's and 93% of the accolades. I haven't exactly worked it out, but I've worked out that Michelle Bouteau of survival of the thickest. Isn't it true by the way, Michelle? Because you know they have. We have more reserves to draw upon, Michelle. Butu up next.
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B
Foreign.
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A
Catches up to you. And that's okay. I'm getting definitely wiser. But you know, when I do a deep knee bend or even a mid knee bend, there are certain noises. The joints are stiff, recovery takes longer. I'm always looking for products, ideas or products that are ideas to help me out. I didn't really think of collagen or collagen peptides until bubs came along. Bubs, naturals. Collagen peptides makes you look and feel a couple decades younger. So this could mean things like stronger joints, healthier nails. I will not mention healthier hair, but apparently for people other than people like me, you know, those who have hair, they can do the job too. Smoother skin, definitely faster recovery. Put it into my coffee every morning.
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B
Swirl, swirl, swirl.
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A
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B
Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?
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He's talking to you Bridges. I'm not that. Of course he did. Right Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list and elf. I'm six three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right Mrs. Claus? I'm Mrs. Claus much younger sister and AT T Mobile there's no trade in needed when you switch so you can keep your old phone or give it as a gift. And the best part? You can make the switch to T Mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes.
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B
Nice.
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A
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B
Youm guys have a type right? But you don't even realize that you are somebody else's type.
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A
Hello.
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B
Hello from the other side, whoever. Yes, honey, you are somebody else's type. You don't even know that. Like, I realized way too late in life that I am an achievable Beyonce for government workers. Oh, my God, are you serious? And if they like old black government workers named Lawrence, Ty, Dennis, Curtis, Otis, anything in the is, they love me. Ooh, I can't go to a Veterans Day parade. My booty ain't safe. She is not safe. They looking at me like they want me to motorboat the PTSD off their face. And I'll do it. Cause I'm a patriot. Thank you so much.
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A
Ooh.
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B
Thoughts and prayers. Thank you for your service. Thank you so much. Foreign.
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A
You should mention Ms. Michelle Buteau, the first woman to tape a special at Radio City Music Hall. Also the first woman of color to tape a special at Radio City musical. Also the first woman of color with 5 year old twins to tape a special at musical. Also the first woman of color with 5 year old twins married to a man with a name mostly unpronounceable to American ears. One what a trailblazer. More so than most 12th century indigenous people. Michelle Buteau joins me.
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B
Thanks for coming in and happy Columbus Day to you.
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A
Yes, I call it. We were here first day.
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B
Oh, my goodness.
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A
I am Italian, so I grew up.
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B
Yes.
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A
I grew up with the idea that I should be proud of Cristofer Colombo.
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B
I'm so dyslexic with history. So is Christopher Columbus Italian? He went to the Spaniards and said, your wife is cute, but give me the money for the boats. Or is it the opposite?
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A
Okay, no, that was it. And Ferdinand and Isabella, who oversaw the Spanish Inquisition, among other things. So I'm also half Jewish, so I'm very conflicted about all this.
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B
You are Columbus, just in general. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
I think of all, by the way, of all that. Like you care. But I'm going to tell you about myself. Of all the things I've been asked to reconsider about history, I think that reconsideration has the most validity.
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B
Good.
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A
Because normally I look back and say it was a different time. And to judge by our standards has costs. But even from what I understand, by his standards, real assholes. Yeah.
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B
And bad at directions. Well, by the way, Badger and by the way, like, gave everybody in the island syphilis. Like, oh, yeah, nobody wants to get dick.
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A
Yeah. But you know, enough about 1492. Let's bring it up to 2024. Oh, and 2025.
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B
Come on now.
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A
You're special.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Raider City Music hall is what, 6,500 seats?
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B
Something like that? Yes.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So is that bigger than most venues you play or.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
So what are the considerations when you're.
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B
Playing a show that says, well, the first thing is, like, can I do it? And not can I do it? Like, can I perform in front of, like, this many people? But, like, can I just do this? Can I afford it? How do we go about it? Because, you know, usually when you are filming a comedy special, you do a venue that obviously feels like a lot of people, but can be intimate. And you do two shows. You do an early show and a late show, so you can edit the best out of each one. Well, playing my hometown after I just sold out the Beacon in October, and then I'm just gonna go try and sell it. Radio City Music hall in June felt crazy.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But after I found out that no female had ever recorded a special there, I'm like, well, now it's just bigger than me because I. You know, you have. We have to, you know, break those ceilings, lay down the groundwork, plant the seeds. Any other example you want to think of, you know, keep the holder, hold a. Hold it, or whatever it is, we have to do that. And so I'm like, okay, I'm going to try and do this. And I just love. I just love that theater. It's so iconic. And, you know, Netflix is in 190 countries. That's, like, not nothing. And so, you know, if you're, like, in South Korea or Kenya and you can't afford to come to New York, I would love to. To make it feel like you are in New York with me. And so that consideration was, like, insane. But I don't know when I really am passionate about something. I have a really dope team of people who are just like, okay, let's go. Because I don't want to hear. I don't want to hear naysaying at all. Yeah, it's just like, how can we get creative and make this happen? And so I already forgot the question. I'm just like, I love this special.
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A
Well, here's a qu. Here's a more specific question. I noticed that you had your own rug, your own carpenter. Lot of times performers do this for acoustics and intimacy, but did you do it for cleanliness? Because I don't want to give away anything at the end, but, you know, you make yourself familiar with the ground.
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B
No, it was. You know, we had a rug because the space is so big. We want it to feel intimate and like draw your eye.
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A
Yes.
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B
To where I'm standing. So no, I. So I'm not giving too much away. We can say that I crawled on the ground and dance because I think.
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A
They put it in the trailer.
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B
Yeah, she is who she is. And. And that's just like 30 seconds out of like the 62 minutes, you know, so I'm just like, go get it. But I mean, I've been in like the City winery in Pittsburgh on like a Wayfair carpet that was like haunted, that could like walk away.
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A
That was the one they actually shipped the kids in as per the rumor.
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B
Exactly. So like, yeah, I have no qualms about getting a little dirty. Comedy's dirty, you know. You know, being a former hoe is dirty. You're gonna.
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A
When you were down there in Pittsburgh, we were like, okay, I'm getting hints of merlot, maybe with chutney in the after.
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B
I mean, it was definitely giving more like, I don't want to, like deaf. I don't want to. It's not just like city wineries. It's like a lot of stale. Is it giving? Dusty, moldy situation. Like we, we're never cleaning the carpets. I don't even know what's happening up here, you know, I just feel a little tightness in my chest.
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A
Right, that's. Okay, breathe in. Do you. Now, I've been watching a few of your specials going back to a lot of your comedy. And there is a ratio of how often you're, I'm not going to say making fun of others, but others are the butt of your joke and how often you become the butt of your own joke. And I've sensed that it is stayed mostly in equilibrium throughout your career. Something like a two to one ratio. But you never, you never go so far where you're only making fun of other people without bringing it back to yourself. Now do you think that's strategic or who you are?
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B
I mean, I don't know. Come on, Ray, man, give me the ratio. You know, that's such a fantasy football answer. I don't know. I just do what I feel. You know, sometimes I call feelings like farts. You gotta let them out and then you feel better. And so yeah, I think everything is sort of like a careful balance and you sort of figure out your recipe as you go on. You know, I know a lot of particularly female comedians when they first start comedy, it's a lot of self deprecating stuff. You know, they wanna make everybody feel comfortable to let you know. I don't think I'm too attractive or whatever the it is. Can we curse on this? Oh, good. Whatever the. That is. And then also. That is. And also, female comedians, when they start out, they tend to be dirty. You know, there's, like, a freedom and a license that we have when we first start that we can say and. And all this other stuff that, like, we're not supposed to say. And.
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A
Well, comedy's about transgression, I think, still, that's. That reads as transgressive, and we'll get maybe a nervous giggle. And then the good comedians both work past that. Right. But also hold on to it. Like, there are great comedy moments to be.
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B
It's in the roots, but, you know, it's not in the leaves. So bad example. Like, what am I on the Food Network? But, like, yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, I. I think with comedy, like, no one is like, no. No one's, like, happily safe, if that makes sense. You know what I mean? In a fun, funny, inclusive way. And that's sort of like, that's why a good roast. Well, you'll just be quoting it for days because you're like, oh, I can't. Because, you know, a perfect roast joke, you know, will cut you down and lift you up at the same time.
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A
But a bad roast, and I don't want to call out bad roast, but I just saw one. It will make you feel. It's not just that, oh, that was cruel for no reason. It's, like, why it implicates you. Why was I part of that sport? You know? And so, I don't know, maybe that gives roasting a little more frison of danger, is a little more edgy.
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B
You know, I think you have to work really hard. Like, I think people think roasts are easy and don't get it twisted. Beyonce will make a halftime show look easy, but there's so much work behind that. And a good joke for a roast is not, you cannot be lazy. You have to work that joke over and over again. It's not. It's sort of like the way you do any joke, and that's why roasts are, like, insane, because you leave it there that one time, you don't get to do it over and over and over again. And. Yeah, and also there I was just, like, I was just talking to my assistant about this or somebody. I don't even remember, because what is space or time? But, you know, there's people who are funny, and there's people, like, the straight person, and there's the people who think they're funny.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And that's the dangerous place. You're not funny.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And it feels crazy now. It feels. Now people feel like they're being gaslit. It's like, oh, my God, what is this? And so when people meet me, sometimes they're like, I got a joke. I'm like, please don't tell me.
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A
I don't.
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B
I don't. I'm not your comedy teacher.
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A
Right. But even if it's good, what are you gonna. How's that gonna leave you? You're gonna feel a little jealous.
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B
I don't even know jealousy. Is that. Yeah, jealousy's not my thing. I'm always just like, I have Boo Boo. I'm the supportive mom at the playground. But I'm like, not for me. It's like showing me that your kid could walk. Good for you. I don't give a shit. I gotta take care of my other kids. You know what I mean? It's just like, I'm busy, but go.
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A
So what's the cruelty quotient in the show? Back to fantasy football and I'm gonna throw the toothpicks.
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B
That's so subjective, right? Well, I mean, yeah, I have.
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A
You have this bit where you're in the reptile house, right, with the bearded. And you essentially are roasting an unseen character who. You establish this woman who gets on your case for being, quote, one of the woke ones.
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B
Yeah. And I was like, fine, I will go look at lizards with you because I love you. And he goes, you know, it might be really fun if we got a little high. So I took an edible, but this time I only took one. And it was wonderful. All you have to do is just wait 2 hours and 17 minutes. And it was great. I was in a good mood. Nothing was fazing me. I felt joyful. You know, I was, like, driving us to the reptile sanctuary in the Bronx in my minivan. I'm not proud of that sentence. You know, in the Bronx, everyone's got road rage. They're like, move over, bitch. Learn how to park, whatever it is. And I couldn't even care. Usually I would yell back, but I was just like, I hope you heal.
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A
So how do you convey. How do you establish the character enough to the audience, but also don't make it? Since she's of your own creation, you can make it. So she's totally ridiculous and you're just beating up, essentially a. You know, a tackling dummy. She's not there to offer resistance.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I mean, it seems a little harder than it comes across. When you're enjoying it.
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B
I mean, as an audience member specificity.
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A
Yes, yes.
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B
Get specific.
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A
Okay.
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B
You know, let people know who this person is.
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A
So what, what is it with this character? With that woman?
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B
I believe I said something along the lines of Walmart shoes optional.
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A
Uh huh.
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B
It's giving third cousin insurrection. It's giving camouflage. But I see you.
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A
Yes.
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B
And so just by setting that up, it feels like people might know the type of person I'm talking to people.
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A
Brilliant. They anchor in their mind. When you say that, it's a different kind of person for everyone. So now you're not speaking of an abstract idea or even a stereotype. They're saying, oh yeah, that's Sheila or whatever or whoever that is.
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B
And then no offensive Sheila. But you know who he was?
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A
This one specific January 6th Sheila. But right, so like when you're making fun of her, they're more on your side because they find that woman, you.
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B
Know, make fun of and also she's making fun of me.
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A
She is, yes.
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B
You know what I mean? And this is sort of like a. A grown tet. A tet. Right. It is. It's sort of like where are you in your life? Buto when you are in your 40s, you are happily married, you are highly therapized, you are a mom. You don't want to become a Today show interview because you just got in a fight at a reptile sanctuary because Hoda will be so disappointed. But like.
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A
And it's supposed to be a sanctuary for those reptiles.
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B
It's a sanctuary.
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A
Violin.
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B
Not in front of the reptile, Sheila.
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A
I mean, they are cold blooded sons.
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B
Of bitches, but still with a warm soul. But like, yeah, it's also like that bit really also kind of. I'm trying to talk about when you are nice, you're tipsy, you're high, and then somebody just comes along and just ruins that for you with their ignorance. And I really kind of, I've done so much work on myself, but when people really get like the Jersey Mall parking lot in the back of my throat that wants to come up and let them know, you know, who the fuck she is, it's just like, can't do that girl.
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A
Right?
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B
You're not 27, you're 47. So calm it down.
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A
How much of that, if we were filming, how much would the documentary reflect your recitation of it and how much does that matter?
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B
Those words were so big sis. What? Can you make it simple for me?
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A
Yeah. How much was real and does that matter?
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B
Thank you. Why did you just say that to begin with? I mean, we're upstairs.
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A
Well, you know, in the reptile house. We have to use somewhat exalted language, I think.
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B
How much of it was real? I mean, this has happened to me quite a bit. So it was sort of like. My back and forth with her was a combination of things that have happened to me where I'm just like, oh, here we go again. And whether they're, like, in real life or on social media, and, you know, when you get me in a safe place because I'm with my husband and also, like, you know, and I'm a little high, then, like, it's gonna come out, but it's gonna come out with a smile. So, yeah, it's. And honestly, like, there was a lot of blackout moments because I do say I turned into, like, a George Jefferson, because have you ever gotten in a fight with a stranger?
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A
Yes. Yes.
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B
And you probably remember everything.
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A
Yes.
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B
I don't remember everything. Okay. Yeah. I don't remember everything. I want to.
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A
Yes.
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B
But I don't.
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A
But it's okay, because then you could play it back and switch in that. Which is funnier. That which is always more. Always, like, better for you. You come off better.
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B
It's a condensed story.
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A
Yeah.
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B
About a bigger picture, but something that will happen to us every day. And it's always a painful, hurtful, disgusting argument and. Or conversation and. Or debate. But putting it on, arguably one of the biggest, nicest stages in the world, for a special to close, your special is. Is gonna need some editing. It's gonna need some judging, some fine tuning, some space, some tightness. And, you know anybody who's that friend that really loves to tell a dinner story, like a story at a dinner table, they know what's up, you know, what's working when you tell a story.
- [21:23]
A
Or not, you know, besides being high and dealing with some woman who comes at you, you were in the reptile house, so that seems important. You could look at it like there's a bunch of reptile house jokes, and there's a bunch of me arguing with a woman who accuses me of wokeness jokes, but the juxtaposition somehow makes it even weirder and funnier.
- [21:46]
B
It's always gonna be, but that's what life is.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know, I was in the butterfly sanctuary at the Bronx Zoo with my kids, and somebody said something really gross about butterflies and was squatting them away in the sanctuary. Do they not get it? You went into the butterflies zone, and now you talk. And I was just like, and it took me back to colonialism.
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A
And I'm like, well, get out of.
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B
Here if you don't want to be here. Stop taking their space and complaining about their space. But yeah, it can, like, it turns into like King Woman real quick, where I'm like, you gotta go. But yeah, I mean, it's. It's always the most inopportune times like that something like that happens, and even in stand up. And that's why I think so many people post crowd work now, because you're like, this is the show and now this is happening. It's not supposed to happen.
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A
Right.
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B
But let's, you know, and that's sort of like what this story is. It's like, like it's crowd work at this point, because it's not supposed to happen.
- [22:46]
A
But I don't know. Sadly, some comedians have expressed this to me, that the comedy club used to be the butterfly sanctuary of performance spaces, and now it's become, if not the petting zoo, that's something like the rodeo, of course, done with animal analogies.
- [23:02]
B
I know, Yeah.
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A
I mean, lion's den. It's.
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B
It's weird because social media is one of those things where it makes us. It makes it smaller, more intimate, but also like bigger and dumber. And so it's just. Yeah, it's weird. It's one of those things. And that's why I love when clubs ask me before I perform, do you want people to put their phones away? And should we tell them to take their phone? Like, you know, put their phone away when they take it out? And I'm like, yes, because, you know, I don't want to share everything with everyone. Some. Some of those things, it's intimate, you.
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A
Know, do you put yourself in situations that might be uncomfortable, like the bearded rep to the bearded dragon sanctuary? And you got high to do it, but do you do it to some small part of you say, well, even if it goes south, it might be good for comedy.
- [23:49]
B
I'm so, like, at this point, I've told my family I don't want any more material.
- [23:53]
A
Right, right, right.
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B
Just make it simple for me. But yeah, no, I never know. Every day is such a crazy adventure, especially with kids and a Dutch husband, that I'm just like, that's not.
- [24:06]
A
In case people are listening and saying, wait, what's that phrase? I've not heard of it. You literally have a Dutch husband.
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B
I have a Dutch husband, yeah. I'm not like, he's not in a crock pot. No, I am not holding him under the COVID for farts.
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A
It's a bit of a Dutch husband, if you know what I mean.
- [24:23]
B
No, you mean my husband is from the Netherlands, which is also called Holland.
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A
Like that.
- [24:27]
B
Pick a name. And. And clogs actually are meant for people that work on a farm because there's horses and cows, and so when they step on your foot, it's meant to protect your foot.
- [24:38]
A
That's smart.
- [24:39]
B
Yeah.
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A
Here's another way around that. Don't let the horses step on your foot.
- [24:43]
B
I know.
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A
I think many American farmers have figured that one out.
- [24:46]
B
But again, are we being culturally insensitive to the horse?
- [24:50]
A
Let the horse step where it wants. Yeah.
- [24:52]
B
It's a bunch of horseshit. Yeah. But, yeah, it's so weird. I really thought Holland was sort of like Germany light, but it's not. It's got its own thing.
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A
Yeah.
- [25:01]
B
Yeah.
- [25:01]
A
So when you say that he's frugal. You have an interesting relationship with money. Given.
- [25:07]
B
Do.
- [25:07]
A
Given the rest of Suez.
- [25:09]
B
Orman is going on right now. Tell me, what is it?
- [25:12]
A
Where. Here's why I need to get you into a lower apr. Michelle. No, I've heard you in different interviews, and even when we were chatting before, you said something like, I want to be able to make the most money. And then as I assess the rest of your politics, which are probably more lefty, I don't know. Very few, kind of. You seem socialist in many regards, except the actual socialism is what I say. You have a lot of policy positions of aoc, but you want to make money.
- [25:39]
B
I do. I feel like historically we have not been paid what we are owed.
- [25:46]
A
Yeah.
- [25:47]
B
And I'm done with that. Pay me money. And so, yeah, we were talking about living in Holland and that, you know, you have everything you need, but you'll never be rich, but you're rich in other ways. And that you could have millions of dollars and still basically have, like, no savings or even, like, health insurance or like, access to good education or something. Right.
- [26:06]
A
And even if you're a farmer, you probably don't have broken feet. Exactly.
- [26:09]
B
A farmer, please. That's just me combing my hair on a Sunday. But, yeah, I think, you know, I think generational wealth creates generational health. And so I want to be comfortable, but I also want to set my family up the way my parents set me up. So my mom's from Jamaica, my dad's from Haiti. They left. They educated themselves in another country, and, you know, they were able to, you know, take care of me and provide for me and their family. So, yeah, I want to do that. I want to keep it going. I don't need to be like a Kardashian or a Jackson. I don't need to be like some like, famous family. I just want to make sure that my kids are okay.
- [26:57]
A
Yeah.
- [26:57]
B
And that their kids are okay.
- [26:58]
A
You picked a pretty good one in a gigantically dysfunctional example of families, I think.
- [27:05]
B
I mean, also, I don't even know which one you're talking about.
- [27:07]
A
Like, it's all you think the Jacksons are doing. Well, I don't know what.
- [27:11]
B
I don't know what they're doing. I haven't been privileged.
- [27:13]
A
I know.
- [27:14]
B
Janet just performed in Vegas.
- [27:15]
A
It looked like fire. Janet. Yeah, Yeah. I haven't checked in on latoya lately and we'll be back with more of Michelle Bateau in a second. AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just but one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI transformation@rubrik.com that's R U B R-I K.com support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you backtest it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available@public.com Disclosures we're back with Michelle Bhutto on Funny youy Should Mention it is interesting politically and you get you get into politics. I guess a Little bit obliquely. A lot of older black Democratic politicians, essentially, and maybe it's because you're children of immigrants, but essentially have that view, which is they are dedicated to the social justice part, but they know what their constituents want is not a reorganization of society. Society, economically. They just want the opportunity to get their share.
- [29:34]
B
I say both. Yeah, I say both.
- [29:36]
A
Well, they do. It's not as if, you know, Clyburn doesn't want some sort of organization, but when push comes to shove, if you look at the squad, for instance, they have different economic prescriptions for what's going on with society.
- [29:49]
B
Yeah. It almost feels like. Honestly, it almost feels like it's out of hand in a way where I'm like, was the world always this up or am I just old enough to know better now?
- [30:02]
A
That's interesting, you know? Yeah.
- [30:04]
B
And I don't.
- [30:06]
A
No.
- [30:06]
B
And I know, like a lot of people will say two steps forward, four steps back, or whatever it is, but I'm just like, I don't know what this world is. I. I just have no idea. I thought I did. I have no idea.
- [30:19]
A
What do you mean? In regards to what?
- [30:21]
B
In all of it?
- [30:22]
A
Yeah.
- [30:22]
B
You know, I mean, there's such. You would think there's like such a, like, big difference between like. Like a doomsdayer. Right. And then, like, you know, someone who's not. And now I'm just like, I am overwhelmed by information.
- [30:43]
A
Yes.
- [30:44]
B
And I don't know what's real. And I used to work in the news business.
- [30:46]
A
Yes.
- [30:47]
B
You know what I mean?
- [30:47]
A
Yes.
- [30:48]
B
And that fucked me up even more.
- [30:50]
A
Yes.
- [30:51]
B
Because now it really is feeling like a real life black mirror house of cards where I'm just like, here's the information, here's what they're giving us. And then we have to decide. But then we have all this access to social media where we get to have this. This yelling conversation with each other. No one's actually sitting in a room talking. And so I'm just. And now I'm just like saying words. But I'm really just. I'm really overwhelmed by it. Especially with this new administration. I'm just like, well, what do I have control of? And that's sort of like what comedy has been for me because, you know, I'm really proud to be a multi hyphenate. And I feel like you have to, especially if you're a woman in this business, figure out how to do other things. Don't wait for somebody to tell you what you can and cannot do. Create it. No. Matter big or small, you know? And so I feel like comedy sort of is, like, how I'm holding on to humanity. Like, what can I control?
- [31:45]
A
Can you think of a bit or routine where you help define into the uncertainty of the world? So the phrase that I sometimes hear about it is epistemic collapse. Like, what do we even know what we believe, believe in? And it's all up for grabs. So maybe a comedian could say, yeah, this is crazy, but here's my theory, and maybe I'll help guide you through it with what I think about this issue or that issue. Can you think of a. Because I know you talk a lot about your life and you're a great storyteller. I'm trying to think if you've ever kind of defined the world in a way that is helpful to the audience or one small aspect of the world.
- [32:20]
B
God, I really can't. It's sort of like an argument when I'm, like, in the zone. It does feel like blackout, because I do speak from the heart.
- [32:26]
A
Yeah.
- [32:27]
B
So I don't know. I don't know. I know. Like, the biggest question I get from people, whether they're in the industry or not, is, when do I start making money? When will it happen for me? And, you know, the parallel to me is, like, it. What is it? What is this defining thing that you need? And, like, the way you do one thing is everything. So when will it happen? That's saying you're waiting again for someone to define your happiness when you're not defining it yourself. So when will they love me? When will he call me? When will she take me seriously? When will he give me a raise? When will I become. What paycheck are you gonna need to feel? It's a series, right? It's like when we're climbing a mountain. It's. Everyone talks about the view, but the real journey and, like, the fucking. The good part of that climb up to the mountain is, like, all the little rocks that you had to figure out in between. And so I'm just like, why are we not, like, living in the moment more? And so, yeah, I. I don't fully. I don't really know what I've said. Even when I'm editing it, I was like, dang, I said it like that. I don't really remember. I wish I did. This is why my husband probably loves me. I'm so good to argue with because I'm like, did I say that? I don't really remember.
- [33:46]
A
So if I could, like, gaslight you afterwards and tell you what your position is?
- [33:49]
B
Oh, my. We go to Home Depot for more matches. That's how much she could just, like, let it burn. Cause I'm like, I. I can't confirm or deny. Yeah.
- [33:57]
A
So you were in the news business, and from what I hear, you were working at WNBC TV, Channel 4, WSVN, Fox with a little. With Sue Simmons, Chuck Scarborough, all that. Lynn Berman on sports.
- [34:07]
B
Yes. Felicia Taylor Morrison. Yeah, I was there in it.
- [34:13]
A
And WSVB is that Channel 5?
- [34:15]
B
WSBN is Channel 5 Fox in South Florida.
- [34:18]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:19]
B
And Deco Drive. Alex. Wow.
- [34:21]
A
So you were. You were editing film on 9 11. You were editing tape on 9 11, and somehow you said, as someone with comedy in your soul, this isn't funny enough.
- [34:31]
B
I didn't even think I had comedy in my soul. I thought it was just like a big titty freckle face bitch trying to get through the day that loved free donuts on an overnight.
- [34:38]
A
Listen, if you phrased it like that, you had comedy in your soul, I had no idea.
- [34:42]
B
That's what they told me. People in the news business that literally edit death every day, they're like, you should be a comedian. And I was like. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. Because comedians seem broke. And then I like fucking money, as we know.
- [34:53]
A
Yes.
- [34:54]
B
I want to feel safe as Sakur and pay all these bills on time. But, yeah, it's weird. It's like, I don't know why it takes death to, like, really make you live, but sometimes it does.
- [35:06]
A
I also read that you wanted to get into entertainment news, per se. Is this true?
- [35:11]
B
I love a red lip and a shoulder pad, and I want to be like a little Mary Hart. Little John Tesh.
- [35:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. With the leg cam on Entertainment Tonight getting higher and higher.
- [35:23]
B
Where's my taxi?
- [35:24]
A
So now that you are the interview, do you have. Do you think you have. You give more leeway to the entertainment interviewers, or do you say, no, that that's not the way to do it?
- [35:34]
B
A little bit of both. And that's what comedy's for. Yeah, it's like, that's your question. You could have done better, but that's okay. Did you go to AOL for these questions? Because that's crazy. Did you go to AI?
- [35:43]
A
Yeah.
- [35:43]
B
Yeah. And so that's the great thing about comedy. You can, like, say the thing without saying the thing. And they'll, like, smile while you're making fun of them, which is great.
- [35:50]
A
Have you ever been interviewed on a red carpet where you Said, you know, I know what your job is. And that was great. That was great. You're great at your job. No, no. Is anyone great at their job on a red carpet?
- [36:01]
B
As long as you're having fun, you're great at your job. As long as you're not an asshole, you're great at your job.
- [36:04]
A
Do you think red carpet should over or revamp Overhaul the what are you wearing Question?
- [36:11]
B
No, I love Joan, so let's keep that going.
- [36:13]
A
Well, did you see that?
- [36:14]
B
You probably saw that video then. Probably. I don't know because I feel like you've watched everything. But I was hosting something and a girl asked me, what are you wearing? And I just said, hope for the future.
- [36:22]
A
That's great.
- [36:23]
B
And she was like kind of mad about it, but I was like, bitch, I don't know. This is a dress that zipped. What do you want from me?
- [36:27]
A
Well, speaking of aoc, she literally wore a dress that said tax the rich at the Met gala. I think your, you know, conceptual wearing was much better. Much better. Plus you don't have to walk around literally with that message all day.
- [36:40]
B
Sometimes you do. Sometimes, sometimes you gotta let em know, you know, it's really interesting because once you have a platform, you know, you're just like, well, then I have to. Sometimes, you know, you just have to.
- [36:51]
A
Is that. Was that some of the impetus behind the bit in your latest special where you talk about Chappelle's jokes about trans people?
- [37:00]
B
I don't think we'll ever run into Dave though. Cause he is the goat and he is the goat. If that means going off about trans people, Dave, it's not funny. It's dangerous. Make it funny, That's all. I can't believe somebody would make millions and millions of dollars for making people feel unsafe. That is so wild to me. Like, truly, I'm manifesting this shit tonight. This is a Radio City Music hall takeover. And I'm going to tell everybody I want to make millions and millions of dollars for making people feel safe, seen, secure, heard and entertained. Entertained. Entertainment. I mean, I'm always going to be that person. I'm always going to stick up for what I think is right. Humanity, essentially. You know, we're just people at the end of the day who want to be loved and feel loved and feel safe. You know, we're all someone's child. And so, yeah, it's, it is not just trans and non binary people. It's, it's, it's everyone in general. Like, why are we punching down? This is like Crazy. Why are we getting paid less? Why are we not feeling safe? Why are the schools not good enough for our children? It really is fucking everything.
- [38:28]
A
So. So in that joke, you said one thing I definitely agree with. It's subjective. And one thing I want to ask you about the agree with is you can do anything you say, anything, but be funny. And I agree with you that the portions of his many shows where he talks about trans people are often the least funny in kind of a shocking way. And I know Chappelle does. He loves doing 10 minutes where he doesn't even try to elicit a laugh. And he can, and he likes holding the audience in rapture. But you would hope that the point would be something better than essentially questioning or mocking of trans people. On the other hand, you did use a phrase, and you said, it's dangerous. And so here's my question about that. It's not to debate it, but if we hold the idea that comedy, making fun of even a marginalized group can be dangerous, doesn't that open the door for lodging that complaint in all sorts of circumstances? And then you can get hit with that complaint. It's dangerous when you make jokes. It's, you know, to me. Well, I don't know if I want to say to me, but I think a good case could be made is that there is jokes in the spirit of humor, and then there is real danger. But what do you think of that? I really brought you up with that one, didn't I? Yeah. There goes the mood.
- [39:44]
B
Yeah. I want to be careful here because I'm realizing that everybody wants to sort of copy and paste what I say and then turn it into something else. For Clickbait, what I will say is, yes, comedy is subjective. Yes, words have power. Yes, we shouldn't punch down. Yes, we can be funny and inclusive. But the bigger picture and the bigger problem here is why is it okay for very talented, powerful people to say what they want to say, but somehow it's not okay for other people to say, I don't agree with that, or can we do better? So you can say what you want to say, but a lot of us have to be quiet? So comedy is meant to be a hilarious, Dark. Conversation, essentially. And so, You know, I'm calling on everybody who doesn't understand and. People that don't look like them or are them. I'm calling on everybody to just take five minutes to try.
- [41:45]
A
Yeah.
- [41:45]
B
And understand them.
- [41:46]
A
Yeah.
- [41:47]
B
Yeah. And I don't want to make this about, like, this joke and that joke and make it funny. I think the bigger picture is humanity.
- [41:56]
A
Well, okay, I'll just say one thing, which is that.
- [41:59]
B
Okay, okay.
- [41:59]
A
I think I have an ethic of free speech. I don't channel Dave Chappelle at all. And I do take your point that he pulls the plug on funniness at times to talk about this one community. And I wonder about it, and it makes me wonder about his whole every. Everything that else that he's doing. But like I say, I do also have the ethic of three speech, free speech. And I worry about certain verboten topics being verboten. I think it's better if comedy's allowed to talk about everything, which obviously includes you saying what you did.
- [42:33]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the needle is moving. I remember my mom coming home and having to ask my dad's permission to sign a document to open a Bam.
- [42:45]
A
Burgers credit card, which is locked in a certain time period based on a couple things. Bam Burgers.
- [42:52]
B
Yes, Bam Burgers, which is now Macy's bought out Bamberger. But, like, yeah, so there was a time where, you know, black people weren't allowed to read, women weren't allowed to read, women weren't allowed to vote. There's, you know, and, yeah, I mean, my perfect. My perfect world is that we take the time to roast each other in a way that emboldens us and educates. Educates us and makes us feel better.
- [43:20]
A
Do you think your audience specifically enjoys peaks behind the curtain of your profession? When you talk about being in movies with JLo, when you talk about doing soup commercials, Are these the sort of things that your audience not only likes because it's funny, but they get to connect through your experience? It's visceral.
- [43:39]
B
I mean, that's a great question. I don't really know what my. What. I know what I like, and I know what I want to share. And so that's why I called it Beautopia, because it really is like the world of my crazy, sassy ass. So, yeah, you know, I want comedy, my comedy at least to feel like we're at a boozy brunch together, but then we all get to go home.
- [44:02]
A
Was the. The amount of. You talk about a soup company where you didn't quite name the soup company. I think you call it.
- [44:09]
B
I'm trying not to name names.
- [44:12]
A
Tambel's Coop. What was it?
- [44:13]
B
Loop.
- [44:14]
A
Loop.
- [44:16]
B
Scare. Cooking before it scares you.
- [44:26]
A
I would think that a Fortune 500 company would say, well, the best thing that can happen is she does this great Endorsement. But maybe the second. Well, maybe even better is it just blows up and then she talks about it in our next special.
- [44:38]
B
Yeah, I don't, you know, obviously I want people to feel safe around me. I'm not going to make a bit. Every time you know, we meet each other.
- [44:47]
A
Comedian you hire, and then she shits all over your product.
- [44:51]
B
No, that's her thing. Yeah. I'm not all over anybody's product. I'm just like, this is. And this happened. I think that video came out, like, I think it was like four years ago or five years. Like, it came out a long time ago. So, like, sometimes you just need time to process and get over that hill emotionally.
- [45:07]
A
Have you done specials? There's a special in between that video coming out and this one.
- [45:11]
B
Yeah.
- [45:11]
A
Oh, and you'd even talk about it. Special.
- [45:13]
B
And I. Things don't happen. And all of a sudden I'm like, ha, ha. I'm living life for content. No, I'm like, out here living life.
- [45:19]
A
Right?
- [45:20]
B
Yeah.
- [45:20]
A
Were you at any point, I don't know, worried about the blowback or what had happened with Ackerman? Like, a real worry?
- [45:33]
B
I mean, it's weird. Like, peripherally, like, yes. I really was just like, oh, my God, I will not be invited to fests. And I love Essence Festival. You know what I mean? But on the other hand, I was like, wow, we really can't take life too seriously because we're making up. This is all made up, you know, like campaigns and this and that. This is all like, cancel cult. Like all these things, all these terms, they're like, this is all made up. At the end of the day, it's just like, are you okay? Are you a good person? Are you drinking enough water? Do you have a neurovirus?
- [46:05]
A
War is real. Like, that is true for all the. For all the constructs. Like, you can't get away from water.
- [46:11]
B
Oh, no, you need it. When people are like, I don't like water, I'm like, there's something that your inner child needs to tell me right now. I don't understand what that means.
- [46:18]
A
Is there anything in the kind of self care sphere that you strenuously object to that you think is bullshit?
- [46:26]
B
I've never really understood Pilates. Huh.
- [46:29]
A
What about stretching in general?
- [46:31]
B
Love it.
- [46:31]
A
Yeah.
- [46:33]
B
Do it all the time.
- [46:33]
A
Yeah.
- [46:34]
B
Yeah.
- [46:35]
A
Consciously or just as a part of life?
- [46:38]
B
Both.
- [46:38]
A
Yeah.
- [46:39]
B
Sometimes I don't even know I'm doing it.
- [46:40]
A
Yeah.
- [46:41]
B
Yeah. I. I don't know. I'm trying to think of something.
- [46:43]
A
What about manifesting where Are you with that?
- [46:47]
B
Yeah.
- [46:48]
A
You believe. You believe in something and then it happens.
- [46:50]
B
I mean, I believe in myself and then it happens.
- [46:52]
A
Okay.
- [46:52]
B
You know what I mean? So I don't know that I would, like, light a candle and look at that candle every day and be like, do this. But I do feel like, again, words have power and also, also like thoughts for yourself. And so, yeah, work on that shit.
- [47:07]
A
Yeah, I just sometimes hear, I think sometimes manifesting that idea can be wielded or used by charlatans to convince you not to do or a person not to do the work.
- [47:17]
B
Yeah, like, I'm not buying like a. A golden bowl to like, make sounds to like, make. You know what I mean? But, like. Yeah, and I think, think, you know, manifesting is sort of like a word that gets lost too, because it's like it. Manifesting is also work, you know? And like, marriage is work. And so while I want to manifest a great life for my husband and I, it's like communication, openness, patience, planning, like all that stuff. It takes work. So, like, do the work.
- [47:50]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, and your kids, that didn't just happen, right?
- [47:54]
B
No, not at all.
- [47:55]
A
That's not the most important thing.
- [47:56]
B
Oh, my God, that was so. That was like one of the hardest things I've ever done, you know? So, yeah, I worked really. I worked really hard. And I remember Jordan, Carlos, his wife, him and his wife once told me, well, she told me, you're a crazy ass bitch, so I know you'll be a mom. And I was like, that is actually very helpful, thank you. And then Jordan told me, sometimes you can have a happy ending, you know?
- [48:18]
A
You didn't think so before.
- [48:19]
B
Well, when you're in such a dark time, you know, like four miscarriages over five years, traveling the country with weird needles that you have to, like, present at TSA for ivf, paying out of pocket, doing gigs you'd never normally do because nothing's covered by insurance, people telling you you should lose weight or not work so much, who don't have any degrees on their wall to be a doctor or even work in IVF is like, fucking insane. And then, like, everyone's sort of blaming you. You're too old, you know, you waited too long. So, like, yeah, it was dark. But also, like, that's the great thing about comedy. It's like, it's nice to have this time on stage with people that want to have a good time because it makes you, like, want to show up for yourself too. And so, yeah, I think recognizing the dark parts is like, really how you only appreciate when you're out of them.
- [49:08]
A
I would imagine that you couldn't love your kids more. And no matter how you came by your kids. But going. Having gone through the journey, you came by your kids having gone through the journey. There's this extra appreciation. But do you. They're young, so you could just love them or get the boogers out of their nose. But have you thought to yourself, I'm not gonna put all of that on them at some point that they're.
- [49:31]
B
Put one on them.
- [49:32]
A
The magical children who were the outcome of so much work.
- [49:37]
B
Yeah. I mean, I think that also is like, just even saying that sentence is like how the majority of people see the word manifest. You know, it's like, oh, you must. You must have a vision board, like, over your bed. And you just, like, look at pictures of things and hope they happen. That's not really it either. I mean, I can't speak for everyone. I can speak for myself. Like, you know, the days are long and they're real.
- [50:07]
A
Yeah.
- [50:08]
B
And, you know, you appreciate even the hard moments because then, like, it's a privilege and an honor to be this tired with you right now. You know, because I could be tired with someone else and do something else, but no, I get to be this for you. And then you show up for yourself in ways that you never thought you'd show up for your own self. And, you know, you think back on how you were raised and how you might do something differently when you're presented with the same situation. And then also, it's not the same situation. Cause we're living in a different world. And so. But also, you know. You know, DNA is real. And so it's. It's really not me being sort of like this Nona, you know, in some sort of like my fat Greek wedding where, like, my kids could do nothing. No wrong. And oh, my God, you're the savior. It's like, holy shit, man. I'm in this world with you guys. And now you're in the world with me. And I do this crazy thing, and I want to let you know that you could do. Do whatever the you want to do, too.
- [51:16]
A
Well, you've said a couple things. There's a strain of wisdom that. Let me. Let me reflect it back to you. Who knows what reality is? And our perceptions are always changing. It's very hard to latch on to anything. But you know what? Water is real. And you know what? DNA is real.
- [51:32]
B
Yeah.
- [51:32]
A
And there are a couple of. And maybe let's take something that can't be broken down into its elemental parts. Like the love of a children is real. Yeah. So maybe, and I don't know how this interacts with comedy or just your worldview, but among this morass and on this chaos, think about, latch on to recognize the things that are real. And from there you get insight, direction, pleasure, maybe comedy, I don't know.
- [51:59]
B
Yeah, something like that. But also it's such a. I can't speak for everybody, but it's such a weird, careful balance of recognizing what's real but also like letting yourself dream a little bit.
- [52:17]
A
The name of the special is A Beautiful Mind. I want to pronounce it correctly.
- [52:23]
B
There's no question mark on the end of that.
- [52:25]
A
No, I meant the question mark is how to pronounce it correctly.
- [52:27]
B
Just do it. Even if you do it wrong, just do it.
- [52:29]
A
Because beautiful is an easy word and you tell is an easy word. But somehow when they mash together, I'm having a little trouble with it.
- [52:36]
B
But you know.
- [52:37]
A
Beautiful mind.
- [52:38]
B
Yeah, Beautiful mind.
- [52:40]
A
Beautiful mind.
- [52:41]
B
No. Beautiful mind.
- [52:42]
A
Is that. Does that count as a pun?
- [52:45]
B
Yes.
- [52:46]
A
You have. I think you have one pun in the special. I like puns. Do you know what the pun is?
- [52:50]
B
No.
- [52:51]
A
It's about. There's a lot of holes in that argument, but not in the bubble.
- [52:54]
B
Oh God, John Travolta. Love.
- [52:57]
A
But I think that counts as a pun.
- [52:59]
B
Love. I think so too. I don't even. I think it's pretty punny, but who knows?
- [53:03]
A
Don't. Don't run away from the puns. I say.
- [53:06]
B
Oh, I love a pun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's tried and true. It's. It's why kids love knock knock jokes. It's just like it does something to your brain. It's like the baby shark of jokes.
- [53:16]
A
Michelle Buto's new special, lol. A Beautiful Mind.
- [53:24]
B
Yes, that's it.
- [53:25]
A
Am I really selling the hell out of this? I hope I get people to watch it.
- [53:27]
B
You are not, but I do appreciate it.
- [53:28]
A
Don't listen to my saying the words. Watch the words. Thank you, Michelle.
- [53:32]
B
You're welcome. I gotta go pick my kids. Up.
- [53:34]
A
Up. Do it.
- [53:34]
B
Bye.
- [53:40]
A
The Gist is produced by Cory Wara. We had help today from Leah Yan. Kathleen Sykes helps me with the Gist list. Jeff Craig does so much with the video and the socials and the visual. He's a master of the visual in this a primarily audio form. Michelle Pesca also works with the visuals but is mostly the visionary improve do Peru. And thanks for Listening.
- [54:10]
B
Guys.
- [54:11]
A
Thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree, Zoe. This thing weighs a ton. Drew, ski lift with your legs, man.
- [54:16]
B
Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?
- [54:18]
A
He's talking to you britches. I'm not. Of course he did. Right, Santa? You know my elf Drew here. He handles the nice lift and else I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T mobile you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right, Mrs. Claus? I'm Mrs. Claus much younger sister. And AT T Mobile there's no trade in needed when you switch. So you can keep your old phone or give it as a gift. And the best part, you can make the switch to T mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes.
- [54:47]
B
Nice.
- [54:47]
A
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