Podcast Summary: The Gist

Episode: Nim Shapira: Torn Between Empathy and Erasure
Host: Mike Pesca (Peach Fish Productions)
Guest: Nim Shapira, Director of "Torn"
Date: September 9, 2025

Overview

This episode of The Gist delves into the aftermath of the October 7th attacks and the phenomenon of hostage posters put up—and then torn down—across New York City. Filmmaker Nim Shapira joins Mike Pesca to discuss his documentary "Torn," which captures the emotional and ideological battles over these posters, exploring issues of empathy, erasure, freedom of speech, and the polarization of American discourse around Israel and Palestine.

Major Discussion Points

Setting the Stage: Social Upheaval & Poster Phenomenon ([10:29] – [11:28])

• Hostage posters for those kidnapped by Hamas were put up in Israel and internationally.
• In NYC, a counteraction arose: people began tearing the posters down.
• Shapira’s film "Torn" emerged from this moment, examining not only what happened, but what it revealed about identity, solidarity, and public space.

Notable Quote:
"In the days and weeks after the October 7th attack, posters went up in Israel and in the United States of the missing those taken hostage by Hamas. And then soon thereafter in the United States. There was a counteraction. The posters were torn down." — Mike Pesca [10:57]

Nim Shapira’s Identity and Perspective ([11:28] – [14:05])

• Shapira is Israeli-American, gay, vegan, artist, and creative director, feeling at multiple intersections of identity.
• Describes pride in New York’s initial solidarity and pain upon seeing familiar city streets become zones of conflict over the posters.

Notable Quote:
"I’m in this intersection of being a Jewish American, Israeli. I’m also a vegan, an artist, and gay. So I think all of these intersections, you know, I felt very, very...ostracized from a lot of different communities and had a lot of questions that I had to ask myself." — Nim Shapira [11:39]

• The contrast is drawn between the post-9/11 missing posters (untouchable, sacred) and the divisiveness around these.

Documenting the Tearing Down ([15:54] – [17:01])

• Shapira sourced viral and lesser-known videos showing confrontations over poster removal.
• The documentary focuses on the first three months post-October 7th, a time with the most intense poster activity.

Notable Quote:
"Basically what I did is comped the Internet and look for any type of encounter between people that put up the posters and rip it down...these were a lot of viral moments, but a lot of moments that I think got less views than others." — Nim Shapira [16:22]

Motivations for Ripping Down Posters ([17:01] – [19:46])

• Some called posters "propaganda" or said it would justify war; others insisted they were not anti-Semitic.
• Shapira explored the logic and reasoning behind these acts—not to forgive, but to understand.

Notable Quote:
"Holding Jews accountable for what is happening in Gaza is anti Semitic. There is no other way around it...But holding every Jew accountable and not seeing a young girl that was kidnapped as a hostage...seeing her as a white colonizer...is something that is very, very depressing on so many levels." — Nim Shapira [17:26]

Free Speech, Doxxing, and Consequences ([19:46] – [23:00])

• Discussion of Aaron Terr’s (First Amendment expert) insights:
  • Posting the posters is free speech.
  • Tearing them down is a form of the "heckler’s veto."
  • Filming and doxxing those tearing down posters is akin to cancel culture.
• Shapira draws a line between holding public servants accountable and vilifying private citizens.

Notable Quote:
"If you are a person that works in the public sphere...and you rip down those posters, you know, it's very, very troubling to see that. And there will be consequences...From that to...harassing private people that are...that's a different approach, which I disagree with." — Nim Shapira [20:42]

Steelmanning the Counter-Argument ([23:00] – [26:20])

• Pesca presents the view that the posters could be seen as fueling justification for war and the subsequent humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
• Shapira responds that tearing down a poster does not impact military strategy; rather, it erases the pain of others, which is counterproductive to coexistence and empathy.

Notable Quote:
"If you want to pressure the government of Israel or elected officials in the United States, you can do it. Go protest...But what we've seen that started with ripping down of the posters is erasing someone else's pain." — Nim Shapira [24:40]

Reception and Relevance of the Documentary ([26:20] – [29:27])

• Shapira frames "Torn" not as a film about the Gaza War, but about America—empathy, free speech, and communal fabric.
• Notes that street debates over Gaza/Israel have, at times, eclipsed even mayoral campaigns in NYC for public attention.
• Stresses the enduring relevance of these free speech and empathy questions regardless of the specific issue.

Notable Quote:
"This is not a movie about the Gaza war. This is a movie about America. This is a movie about empathy and freedom of speech. And the kidnapped posters are the way to talk about it." — Nim Shapira [27:31]

Memorable Moments & Timestamps

• [14:05] Shapira recounts watching videos of poster removal in his own NYC neighborhood, feeling "very, very painful."
• [17:26] Shapira invokes "The Princess Bride": "You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means."
• [19:46] Pesca describes a protestor labeling a kidnapped child: "'Looks like a white colonizer to me.'"
• [23:00] Pesca explores the "best argument" for erasing posters to prevent further violence in Gaza.
• [27:31] Shapira underscores that the issue is about "the heart of New York" and democratic principles.

Tone and Style

The episode is forthright, intellectually curious, and unafraid to interrogate both “sides” of the Israel-Gaza debate—true to The Gist’s aim of being “responsibly provocative.” Shapira displays calm empathy and a genuine desire for dialogue; Pesca probes, challenges, and empathizes, offering counterpoints for fuller discussion.

Key Takeaways

• "Torn" uses the tearing of hostage posters as an entry point into bigger questions about empathy, erasure, free speech, and identity in America.
• The act of removing posters is framed as an attempt not to shorten war, but to erase particular pain—a pattern with dangerous implications for pluralism.
• The debate reaches beyond the specifics of Israel/Palestine; it reflects on contemporary American polarization, cancel culture, and the challenges of coexistence.

Important Quotes at a Glance

• "This is a movie about America. This is a movie about empathy and freedom of speech." — Nim Shapira [27:31]
• "Holding Jews accountable for what is happening in Gaza is anti Semitic. There is no other way around it." — Nim Shapira [17:26]
• "What we've seen that started with ripping down of the posters is erasing someone else's pain." — Nim Shapira [24:40]
• "There’s enough lamp posts and...walls in the city of New York. They can coexist side by side." — Nim Shapira [24:40]

For Listeners Seeking More

• Watch "Torn" to witness these confrontations and the broader questions they signify, as seen through Shapira’s lens.
• Consider the broader implications of public space, memorialization, and social conflict in your own communities.
• Rethink what empathy and free speech mean in deeply polarized times.

This summary skips all ads, intros, and outros, focusing solely on the deep, challenging, and nuanced conversation at the episode's heart.