The Gist — "Not Even Mad: Anthony Weiner & John Ketcham" (Dec. 11, 2025)

Overview

In this episode of The Gist's "Not Even Mad" segment, host Mike Pesca convenes fiery former Congressman Anthony Weiner and John Ketchum, Legal Policy Fellow and Director of Cities at the Manhattan Institute, for a robust and uniquely civil discussion about the state of Congress, the growing challenge of the administrative state, and New York City's economic future under a progressive new mayor. The episode also features a spirited, nuanced breakdown of a controversial U.S. military strike, and wraps up with each guest's "Goat Grinder"—that week's personal peeve.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dysfunction in Congress: Partisanship & the Administrative State

• Nancy Mace’s Critique of Congress ([11:49])

  • Pesca opens the panel with discussion of Rep. Nancy Mace’s op-ed lamenting congressional dysfunction and the lack of legislative productivity, noting how she credits Democratic leaders like Nancy Pelosi for effectiveness but critiques current Republican inability to govern.
  • Weiner: Congress’ dysfunction is structural, not new, but recent Republican strategy of obstruction is more pronounced.

    “[The] difference…with the Republicans is...20 or so people that are going to be no on everything. And to be honest with you, Nancy Mace was part of that group.” (Anthony Weiner, [13:23])

  • Ketchum: Critiques Mace’s inconsistency—calls for deliberation but cites Pelosi’s iron-fisted approach. Argues Congress has abdicated responsibility in favor of executive/administrative governance.

    “Committees have...become the venues for showmanship and social media clipping rather than for meaningful policy deliberation.” (John Ketchum, [19:28])

• The Delegation of Power to the Executive

  • Weiner and Ketchum debate Congress’ willful surrender of powers (purse, tariffs).
  • Notable moment: Weiner presses Ketchum on think tanks’ passive stance toward executive overreach.

    “This should not be a conservative idea to give...powers that were in Section 1 to the Executive branch. And I want to tell you something. I guarantee you're gonna squeal like a pig when Democrats take over...” (Weiner, [21:05])

• Decline of Congressional Expertise

  • Both guests agree the “specialist” lawmaker is dwindling; Congress has shifted from a policy/craft institution to a fundraising and “YouTube moment” culture.

    "Committees...atrophied...become the venues for showmanship and social media clipping rather than for meaningful policy deliberation and advancement." (Ketchum, [19:28])

• Balancing Democratic Accountability and Expertise ([30:08])

  • Ketchum: Calls for restoring democratic accountability while respecting the need for technical expertise.

    “I would rather err on the side of democratic accountability augmented by greater avenues for expertise, deliberation, and responsible adult decision making.” ([30:08])

2. New York City’s Future Under Mayor Zoran Mamdani

• The Challenge of Big Promises ([35:45])

  • Pesca frames Mamdani, incoming NYC mayor, as ambitious but untested, challenged by Albany’s tight control, a fiscal crisis, and resistance to higher taxation.
  • Ketchum: Dissects Mamdani’s signature proposals (rent freezes, free buses, childcare expansion), explaining why many are legally or financially infeasible.

    “You can't really freeze the rents unilaterally...It's made up of mayoral appointees, but they have for cause protection and cannot be fired at will...” (Ketchum, [35:45]) “Altogether, Mamdani's proposals are 10 billion bucks.” (Ketchum, [37:39])

  • Weiner: More optimistic—believes Mamdani will get his rent freeze, some free buses, and roll out pilot grocery programs, largely because momentum and narrative matter.

    “Any opposition that he runs into is going to play into his narrative of who he's fighting for.... it's the troubles...coming out of Washington.” (Weiner, [38:44])

• Signature Achievements Are Essential

  • Pesca and Weiner stress that rhetoric and fighting spirit aren’t enough without tangible wins, citing Pre-K as de Blasio's crucial early victory.

    “You need one or two things to be able to say. I said I was gonna do it and I did.” (Weiner, [43:19])

• Will Progressive Policies Address Affordability? ([43:45])

  • Ketchum: The fundamental problem is constrained housing supply, not just high rent. Rent control/freezes will worsen the situation unless paired with market-driven supply solutions.

    “If you simply try to freeze rents, that does nothing positive to boost housing supply...” (Ketchum, [43:45])

  • Weiner: Agrees with the supply critique but notes the persistent political reality—demand for New York will always drive prices.

    “Our success as a city is...more people want to come here than we can really handle.” ([46:30])

• Mamdani’s Unique Moment and Coalition

  • Both panelists agree Mamdani’s unlikely coalition (younger, educated, disaffected, plus newly mobilized Muslim voters) carried him, but sustaining popularity and delivering are new challenges.

    “…he activated a new voter base of Muslim New Yorkers, which heretofore really weren't all of that politically active. And that is a great credit to him.” (Ketchum, [50:05])

3. Venezuelan Boat Strikes: Lawless Deterrence or War Crime? ([52:32])

• Background: The U.S. military, under Sec. Pete Hegseth, destroyed a Venezuelan boat suspected of drug trafficking, igniting a partisan split in Congress on legality and morality.

• Weiner:

  • Sees it as emblematic of current administration's “clown show” ethos—violates norms designed to protect U.S. troops and sets dangerous precedent.

    “This is what happens when you have people in high levels of government who are like the guy at the end of the bar saying blow them all up kind of vibe.” ([53:55])

  • Highlights lack of “cool heads” at DoD compared to previous administrations.

• Ketchum:

  • Says support for the strike hinges on whether outcomes benefit the U.S. (i.e., reducing drug flow into the U.S.).

    "If Americans saw that this was having a visibly, impactful deterrent effect...people would cut the administration some slack here." ([55:22])

  • But recognizes the legal and moral gray area; questions the actual destination and impact of these drug shipments.

• Pesca: Calls out performative, “meme-seeking” approach to military decisions and the lack of constitutional process (no Congressional authorization).

  “They could have gotten the meme and maybe even...electoral benefit if they put a vote in front of Congress and said, do you authorize us to get the votes?” ([58:19])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Congressional Abdication:
  • “The very power is something that was jealously protected. They call the appropriating chairman the Cardinals because that's how we revered it so much.” (Weiner, [24:32])
• On NYC's Housing Market:
  • “[New York] is a luxury product. Now you're not supposed to say that. Right. And I kind of fundamentally disagree as a middle class guy…But I think what [Bloomberg] was striving at was this idea. People want to come here and invest here…” (Weiner, [46:30])
• On Progressive Voter Mobilization:
  • “He activated a new voter base of Muslim New Yorkers, which heretofore really weren't all of that politically active. And that is a great credit to him.” (Ketchum, [50:05])
• On the Venezuela Strike:
  • “This is what happens when you have people in high levels of government who are like the guy at the end of the bar saying blow them all up kind of vibe.” (Weiner, [53:55])
• Pesca’s Meta-Critique:
  • “You need not only to. You need one or two things to be able to say. I said I was gonna do it and I did.” ([43:19])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening and Guest Introductions: [10:40] – [11:49]
• Congressional Dysfunction / Administrative State: [11:49] – [30:47]
• NYC Policy, Mamdani, and Housing: [33:30] – [52:32]
• Venezuela Boat Strike Controversy: [52:32] – [61:09]
• Goat Grinder (Panel Gripes): [62:09] – End

The Goat Grinder: Hosts’ Personal Peeves

1. Ketchum: Fare evasion in New York (turnstile jumping, toll dodging)—calls for civic responsibility. ([62:09])

   "We live in a common society. We should all play by the same rules..."

2. Pesca: Alarmist reporting about autonomous vehicles killing pets—demands nuanced, data-driven debate, not clickbait. ([62:43])

   “I do stand in the way of alarmist futurism headlines.”

3. Weiner: Sales tax on pet food—critiques the illogic of taxing “essential” pet care. ([65:01])

   “We should...not pay sales tax on dog or cat food. Unless you get hit by a Waymo…”

Closing Notes

With its mix of inside-baseball insight, cheeky banter, and good-faith argument, this episode gives Gist listeners a clear-eyed view of American and New York City politics in a high-stakes era. Neither left, right, nor milquetoast centrist, both panelists relish leveling the playing field for tough, funny, sometimes self-effacing debate—embodying the “not even mad” brand of critical inquiry.