Podcast Summary: The Gist – "Not Even Mad: Eli Lake, Michael Cohen on Biden's Health, and the New Human-Rights-Free Foreign Policy"
Release Date: May 21, 2025
Host: Mike Pesca
Guests: Eli Lake (Free Press) and Michael A. Cohen (MSNBC)
Episode Overview
In this episode of The Gist, hosted by Mike Pesca, the discussion pivots around two central themes: the ongoing discourse surrounding President Joe Biden's health and cognitive abilities, and the shift towards an amoral foreign policy under President Donald Trump. Joining Pesca are Eli Lake, host of the Breaking History podcast from the Free Press, and Michael A. Cohen, a columnist for MSNBC and senior fellow at the Fletcher School at Tufts.
Joe Biden's Health and Democratic Strategies
Timestamp: [03:55]
Mike Pesca initiates the conversation by delving into the intense scrutiny of President Biden's health. He references a recent New York Times article that highlights various health concerns, including Biden's prostate cancer diagnosis and alleged cognitive lapses. Michael A. Cohen offers a nuanced perspective, suggesting that while discussions about Biden's health are exaggerated, there are legitimate concerns about his ability to fulfill presidential duties effectively.
Notable Quote:
Cohen states, “[...] I am much more worried about the current occupant of the White House who has clearly far worse cognitive deficiencies than Joe Biden ever had.”
[13:54]
Cohen further critiques the media's focus, arguing that while Biden's health is under the microscope, Trump’s more severe cognitive shortcomings receive insufficient attention. He emphasizes the double standards in political discourse, pointing out that Republicans defend Trump's actions despite clear evidence of his cognitive decline.
Notable Quote:
Pesca mentions, “If Barack Obama were elected based on the idea that I have this plan called Obamacare, [...] it wouldn't really work. If he ran on a plan, it wouldn't have worked.”
[03:55]
Pesca contrasts Democratic strategies with Republican approaches, arguing that Democrats tend to "seek first to solve the problem, and then they'll think of ways to describe it," which may hinder their electoral success compared to Republicans who excel at diagnosing and articulating problems without necessarily providing immediate solutions.
Comparison with Donald Trump's Cognitive Fitness
Timestamp: [11:02]
The conversation shifts to comparing Biden's and Trump's cognitive states. Cohen acknowledges debates and performances where Biden appeared competent but contrasts this with Trump's erratic behavior and incoherent narratives. Pesca expresses skepticism about Biden's reported health issues, suspecting deceit from the Biden administration.
Notable Quote:
Cohen remarks, “He has said repeatedly that US doing less trade with China means that we are getting an economic boost for the US which is so clearly unfair.”
[20:35]
This exchange highlights the contrasting perceptions: Biden's missteps are viewed through a lens of age and health, while Trump's actions are often dismissed as inherent traits, disregarding underlying cognitive concerns.
Amoral Foreign Policy Under Trump
Timestamp: [37:05]
Eli Lake introduces the concept of the United States adopting an amoral foreign policy under Trump, abandoning the traditional emphasis on human rights and democracy promotion. The discussion evaluates whether this shift aligns with realpolitik and America's self-interests.
Notable Quote:
Lake posits, “America is no longer going to hector its allies about whether women have the right to drive or whether dissidents disappear into dark prisons.”
[37:05]
Reynolds responds by debating the effectiveness of this strategy, arguing that while some interventions (like the National Endowment for Democracy) have had positive impacts, Trump's approach may undermine long-standing alliances and moral authority.
Notable Quote:
Reynolds states, “I think that everything moves very fast. So part of that's fair. But my little pushback, slight pushback, is just like, I do think that there were a bunch of issues where the Democrats were in like 2080 territory.”
[63:12]
The dialogue explores the consequences of sidelining human rights in favor of strategic gains, questioning whether this amoral stance truly serves U.S. interests or erodes its global standing.
US Alliances and Realpolitik
Timestamp: [41:13]
The conversation delves deeper into the implications of Trump's foreign policy on international alliances. Cohen critiques Trump's handling of alliances, particularly with Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia and Israel, suggesting that his approach is more about short-term gains than sustainable relationships.
Notable Quote:
Cohen observes, “You have to do it only fans a different conversation.”
[45:27]
He further commends Trump's engagement with Syria's new leadership and his strategy towards Israel's Netanyahu, albeit with reservations about the consistency and depth of these policies.
Election Dynamics and Postmortems
Timestamp: [58:19]
Michael A. Cohen expresses frustration with the repetitive and often inaccurate analyses of the 2024 election outcomes. He argues that attributing the loss to singular factors like Biden's health overlooks broader anti-incumbent sentiments and global political currents.
Notable Quote:
Cohen asserts, “Elections are complicated and there's never lose.”
[65:41]
Pesca counters by highlighting cultural issues that may have influenced voter behavior, acknowledging the complexity while emphasizing the unpredictable nature of future elections.
Notable Quotes
-
Michael A. Cohen:
“Donald Trump isn’t shy about corruption. But what's so troubling is that what the people around Joe Biden clearly were doing was in some ways more egregious.”
[12:29] -
Mike Pesca:
“If Barack Obama were elected based on the idea that I have this plan called Obamacare, [...] it wouldn’t really work.”
[03:55] -
Ryan Reynolds (Ad Segment):
[Ads are omitted from the summary as per instructions] -
Eli Lake:
“America is no longer going to hector its allies about whether women have the right to drive or whether dissidents disappear into dark prisons.”
[37:05] -
Michael A. Cohen:
“Elections are complicated and there's never lose.”
[65:41]
Concluding Thoughts
The episode concludes with a reflection on the multifaceted nature of political leadership and foreign policy. Pesca emphasizes the unpredictability of future elections and the necessity for the Democratic Party to rebrand effectively against Trump’s enduring influence. The guests agree that both domestic health narratives and international strategies are pivotal in shaping America's future trajectory.
Final Quote:
Pesca wraps up by saying, “We're definitely not saying that any of us are right. We're not saying that you're right. All we're saying is we're not even that. And that's it for today's show.”
[67:18]
Produced by: Cory Wara
Social Media: Astrid Green
Production Details: Michelle Pesca (CBSO) and Leo Baum (Intern) – Peach Fish Productions
This episode of The Gist offers a comprehensive analysis of current political dynamics, blending insights on presidential health, party strategies, and international policies. By juxtaposing perspectives from Eli Lake and Michael A. Cohen, the discussion provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the complexities facing American politics today.