Podcast Summary: The Gist — Not Even Mad: Joe Nocera & Jonah Goldberg

Date: February 12, 2026
Host: Mike Pesca (Peach Fish Productions)
Guests: Joe Nocera (The Free Press), Jonah Goldberg (The Dispatch)

Overview

This episode of Not Even Mad sees Mike Pesca joined by Joe Nocera and Jonah Goldberg for a lively and unsparing discussion on three major topics:

1. The contrasting impact of the Jeffrey Epstein scandal in the US and UK,
2. The state and strategy of the Democratic Party ahead of future elections,
3. The decline of the Washington Post and the challenges facing legacy media.

Throughout, the conversation moves fluidly from sharp cultural observations and political theory to humor and the panelists’ personal anecdotes. The show keeps a tone that is “surprising, reasonable, and willing to critique the left, the right, either party, or any idea.”

1. The Jeffrey Epstein Files: British vs. American Fallout

[10:25–34:54]

Key Discussion Points

• UK Political Turmoil

  • The UK is experiencing government instability due to fallout over the "Epstein files," leading to forced resignations from senior politicians and public outcry.
  • “The Epstein files… revelations that have been much worse for American politicians but haven’t seen that spate or really any resignations in the upper reaches of the American government like say, Howard Lutnick.” — Mike Pesca [12:11]

• US Resilience & Polarization

  • In contrast, the US political system seems oddly unmoved, even though some American political and business elites are deeply implicated.
  • Hypocrisy Fatigue: Americans, especially within the Republican Party, seem to have become numb to charges of hypocrisy due to years of political polarization and public scandals.
  • “The moral depravity of a lot of people is sort of priced in… When shamelessness is the superpower of the President of the United States, it shouldn’t shock us…” — Jonah Goldberg [13:34]

• Casey Wasserman and Shifting Social Norms

  • The panel unpacks the bewildering case of Casey Wasserman, who is losing clients over 20-year-old flirtatious emails with Ghislaine Maxwell—before her or Epstein’s criminal convictions.
  • “It all depends on who your constituency and the constituency or perceived constituency… are maybe sensitive to this… the Republican constituency is completely insensitive.” — Pesca [19:07]

• Social Media Justice & "Knowing What You Know"

  • There’s discussion about the haziness of moral reasoning in contemporary “accountability” culture, as exemplified by Instagram posts and self-help influencer logic.
  • “This conversation was impenetrable to me. It was all knowing what you know and feeling your feelings and trusting your instincts. But what are your instincts?” — Pesca [03:08]

• Release of Raw Files & Consequences

  • Consensus emerges that releasing unredacted, unevaluated files is damaging, leading to misinformation, defamation, and guilt by association.
  • “Throwing out raw tip line garbage into the public sphere doesn’t help anybody. I agree that… I don’t think Lutnick slept with any underage girls either, but his lying about it... was pretty bad.” — Goldberg [20:42]

• The Epstein Modus Operandi

  • The group agrees that Epstein’s social engineering included both blackmail and simply offering access and perks to elites, often blurring illegality and the unsavory.
  • “He was selling the perception of access and inside information, and that helped him. Then you throw in the inducements with the sex and the parties…” — Goldberg [31:20]

Notable Quotes

• Joe Nocera dissects social circles and punishment:

  • “If you’re in one circle you’re off the hook. If you’re in another circle you’re doomed.” [19:39]

• On the damaging vagueness of association:

  • “Any association with the Epstein files… can be weaponized.” — Pesca [24:04]

• Jonah Goldberg, on American moral fatigue:

  • “It doesn’t speak well of America that Howard Lutnick still has a job. But… our ability to be shocked by it was a little less.” [13:34]

• Joe Nocera, on Epstein’s victims’ advocate:

  • “Everything that’s happened with the Epstein files and with Epstein and with Ghislaine Maxwell is because of Virginia Giuffre.” [33:10]

2. Are the Democrats “Up To The Task”?

[35:46–45:15]

Key Discussion Points

• The Atlantic Article:

  • The title “The Democrats Aren’t Built For This” (Mark Leibovich) serves as a springboard for analyzing whether Democrats can defeat growing autocracy and outmaneuver a possible Trump return.

• Party Weakening & Primary Culture

  • Weak parties and candidate selection by primaries have led both Dems and GOP to be beholden to their respective ideological extremes.
  • “Weak parties create strong partisanship… Now… primaries, not general elections, threaten incumbency.” — Goldberg [39:14]

• Messaging Problems & The Swing Voter

  • Democrats’ use of language—land acknowledgments, activist speech, “Latinx”—distracts from winning swing voters and often actively repels them.
  • “They’ve been taken over by campus progressives. It’s this very effete, ‘do your land acknowledgment’ kind of garbage that turns off voters.” — Goldberg [41:31]

• Short-term vs. Long-term Strategy

  • Joe Nocera thinks the upcoming 2026 midterms will go “all right” for Democrats, as more moderates are running, but worries that by 2028, the far left might again be used as a “boogeyman” for Republicans.
  • “Democrats have to win elections. That’s all they can do… and Trump has done so many awful things… it’s almost like the Democrats’ job is being done for them.” — Nocera [36:39]

• Policy vs. Presentation

  • The group discusses whether the Democrats’ indulgence in ideological “frippery” (land acknowledgements, alphabet soup of sexual identities) is mere side noise or risks overwhelming their electoral prospects.

Notable Quotes

• Sarah Longwell (quoted):

  • “Republicans are over here being straight up mercenaries. Democrats give everybody Fridays off and talk about work–life balance… Democrats are not built for when the fascists come.” [39:14, quoting Longwell]

• Jonah Goldberg:

  • “The problem with the Democratic Party is they don’t have enough Rahm Emanuels… those guys… really liked winning elections.” [41:34]

3. The Washington Post: A Necropsy

[45:15–54:49]

Key Discussion Points

• Post-Bezos Decline

  • Why has Jeff Bezos kept the paper? Panelists suggest avoidance of failure, but mostly blame a failed strategy and lack of vision.
  • “Bezos came in, bought the newspaper, thinking that he, the great Internet genius, could figure out some innovative ways… and then he finds out, oh, he really doesn’t have any new ideas.” — Nocera [48:06]

• Comparison to NYT & The Power of Diversification

  • The New York Times thrived by becoming indispensably broad (cooking, games, etc.), making itself an international leader; the Post focused regional and withered.
  • “The New York Times, because it competes on an international level, figured out that it still needed to compete. The Washington Post didn’t.” — Goldberg [53:13]

• Media Monopoly and Calcification

  • Regional monopolies once protected papers from competition, but sapped their ability to adapt and innovate.
  • “Monopolies breed calcification... the Washington Post was a monopoly.” — Goldberg [53:14]

• Financial Reality for Billionaire Owners

  • Even for Bezos, burning $100M a year is intolerable, not for lack of means, but mindset.
  • “Billionaires are billionaires because they don’t like to lose $100 million a year.” — Nocera [50:41]

• Niche Success vs. Mass Appeal

  • Both Goldberg and Nocera argue their non-woke, niche approaches can be successful for their outlets but can’t easily translate to a mass-market daily paper.

Notable Quotes

• Goldberg:
  • “What drives me crazy is people talk about Wordle like it’s a deviation from what newspapers are supposed to be… but newspapers were about satisfying different consumer needs.” [51:51]

4. Goat Grinders (Pet Peeves)

[55:40–62:18] Short, tongue-in-cheek segment where each panelist shares a personal annoyance.

Highlights

• Jonah Goldberg:

  • Bemused by the “dear leader” style pro-Trump government ads narrated by AI versions of Trump, which appear during political TV shows.
  • “My real goat grind here is that nobody else is fascinated by the amount of money the government or Trump-aligned super PACs are spending on Riefenstahl-esque weird propaganda stuff.” [57:28]

• Mike Pesca:

  • Frustrated by the requirement that television viewers must love, not merely like, prestige shows—even when reviews are “North Korean propaganda material.”
  • Points out The Pit’s increasingly predictable and politically correct writing.

• Joe Nocera:

  • Annoyed by tennis players’ ball rituals, though his son corrects him, explaining there’s a technical purpose.

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• “Throwing out raw tip line garbage into the public sphere doesn’t help anybody.” — Jonah Goldberg [20:42]
• “This conversation was impenetrable to me. It was all knowing what you know and feeling your feelings and trusting your instincts. But what are your instincts?” — Mike Pesca [03:08]
• “You have people who did really bad things that the Justice Department has no interest in examining… then you have these other people who did virtually nothing who are being ravaged and having their lives torn apart. So just yuck is all I can say.” — Joe Nocera [26:55]

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode’s tone is probing, irreverent, and skeptical across the ideological spectrum. There’s a consistent willingness to puncture pieties (left or right), resist facile conclusions, and diagnose the incentives shaping public life—be it in politics or media.

Listeners are left with a sense that scandals, media strategy, and political messaging are shaped as much by social “consistencies” and tribal dynamics as by the facts of any particular case; and that some problems are simply, as Nocera puts it, “yuck.”

Key Segment Timestamps

• Epstein Files & UK/US Differences: 10:25–34:54
• State of the Democratic Party: 35:46–45:15
• Washington Post Discussion: 45:15–54:49
• Goat Grinders/Pet Peeves: 55:40–62:18

This summary was crafted for listeners who want the substance of “Not Even Mad” without the ads, digressions, or repetition—and who appreciate the show’s mix of insight, skepticism, and dry wit.