Podcast Summary: The Gist
Episode: Not Even Mad: Michael A. Cohen & Charles Fain Lehman
Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Mike Pesca (Peach Fish Productions)
Guests: Michael A. Cohen (Truth and Consequences Substack) & Charles Fain Lehman (Manhattan Institute, City Journal)
Overview
In this episode of The Gist’s recurring panel discussion "Not Even Mad," host Mike Pesca brings together Michael A. Cohen and Charles Fain Lehman to analyze current political events with their signature blend of wit, skepticism, and spirited disagreement—but with the promise to stay “not even mad.” Topics include the U.S. intervention in Venezuela, the political departure of Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, and controversies surrounding housing policy and leadership in New York City under newly elected Mayor Zahra Mamdani. Rounding out the episode, the panelists share their “Goat Grinders”—personal pet peeves about current events.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Venezuela: U.S. Intervention and Its Motivations
Segment Begins: [09:49]
- Background: Mike Pesca introduces the segment with an overview of the surprising U.S. military action that led to the detention of Venezuelan president Nicolás Maduro.
- Rubio vs. Trump Doctrine:
- Charles Fain Lehman argues that Senator Marco Rubio is driving the administration’s policy toward supporting democracy, while President Trump is more interested in spectacle and quick, decisive action than long-term outcomes.
- “Rubio comes out of … the neoconservative foreign policy disposition which says, like, we need transition to democracy… And then there's Donald Trump who just said, we would like 30 to 50 million barrels of oil…” [11:09, Lehman]
- Cohen finds this lack of unified doctrine “unbelievably baffling,” criticizing the administration’s lack of a clear or coherent endgame:
- “This is the most confusing military operation I think I've ever seen. I literally have no idea why we did it.” [12:30, Cohen]
- Charles Fain Lehman argues that Senator Marco Rubio is driving the administration’s policy toward supporting democracy, while President Trump is more interested in spectacle and quick, decisive action than long-term outcomes.
- Strategic and Moral Arguments:
- Lehman makes both moral and geostrategic arguments for intervention, but worries there may be no real follow-through to support democracy.
- “There is a moral case… but there's also a geostrategic case of like it's not great to have a proxy of our major global opponents in our backyard like that.” [15:07, Lehman]
- Lehman makes both moral and geostrategic arguments for intervention, but worries there may be no real follow-through to support democracy.
- Trump Doctrine Analysis:
- The hosts discuss the “get in, get out” approach—decapitate regimes quickly but avoid entanglement or occupation.
- “Trump is kind of allergic to any kind of taking any risks on foreign policy. He wants quick one-off jobs that will get him attention… but doesn't involve any kind of long term risk.” [21:30, Cohen]
- The hosts discuss the “get in, get out” approach—decapitate regimes quickly but avoid entanglement or occupation.
- Skepticism About Lasting Change:
- Multiple panelists doubt that the operation will lead to meaningful democracy or U.S. influence in Venezuela, especially given historic U.S. interventions in Latin America.
Notable Quote:
- “You cannot just threaten to kill a foreign leader if they won't hold a free and fair election… that's not that free.” [25:07, Pesca]
Polling & Political Impact:
- Public and Latin American regional polling discussed; enthusiasm outside Venezuela is high, but U.S. public opinion remains tepid (only 37% support the action) [27:59, Cohen].
- Short attention span of both the administration and American public seen as a liability for follow-through.
2. Minnesota: Tim Walz’s Departure and Democratic Party Strategy
Segment Begins: [33:37]
- Fraud and Scandal:
- Mike Pesca contextualizes Governor Tim Walz’s decision not to seek a third term, raising both the impact of right-wing attacks and legitimate fraud scandals (e.g., Feeding Our Future pandemic-era fraud).
- Political Calculus:
- Cohen argues that Walz’s departure is a calculated move to prevent him from dragging down the Democratic ticket:
- “Politicians are a means to an end… He did that [progressive legislation]. But now he's a problem for the party. So now you jettisoned him, just like you got rid of Al Franken.” [36:52, Cohen]
- Cohen argues that Walz’s departure is a calculated move to prevent him from dragging down the Democratic ticket:
- Fraud as a Bipartisan Issue:
- Lehman highlights the universality of the fraud issue, noting similar Medicaid abuse and administrative failures in other states. Even in deep-blue Minnesota, fraud could have led to a competitive race.
- “Opposition to fraud is a bipartisan issue. You actually can't waste the public's money giving it to recipients that don't exist…” [37:55, Lehman]
- Lehman highlights the universality of the fraud issue, noting similar Medicaid abuse and administrative failures in other states. Even in deep-blue Minnesota, fraud could have led to a competitive race.
- National Implications?:
- Cohen doubts the Walz story will matter outside Minnesota, given the likely Trump-focused framing of upcoming elections:
- “The 2026 midterm election is going to be a referendum on Donald Trump and that's it… this story… I do not think it's going to have a huge impact.” [39:52, Cohen]
- Cohen doubts the Walz story will matter outside Minnesota, given the likely Trump-focused framing of upcoming elections:
3. New York City: Sia Weaver’s Appointment & Mamdani’s Administration
Segment Begins: [41:17]
- Controversial Appointment:
- Sia Weaver becomes head of NYC’s Office to Protect Tenants. The panelists scrutinize her past tweets (“homeownership is a weapon of white supremacy”, “impoverish the white middle class”, advocacy for communism) and the New York Times’ odd defense that “most of those tweets were before 2020.”
- “If she wants to be in a position of public trust, the fact that she's a bigot is relevant… She's an open and unapologetic bigot.” [42:36, Lehman]
- Sia Weaver becomes head of NYC’s Office to Protect Tenants. The panelists scrutinize her past tweets (“homeownership is a weapon of white supremacy”, “impoverish the white middle class”, advocacy for communism) and the New York Times’ odd defense that “most of those tweets were before 2020.”
- Ideology vs. Pragmatism:
- Cohen contends that Mayor Mamdani, though occasionally pragmatic, is putting hard-left ideologues into power and will face further political fallout.
- “He is going to consistently have to, you know, pacify his very liberal, very left wing base and by putting people in positions of power who frankly are not what we people voted for in New York.” [43:49, Cohen]
- Cohen contends that Mayor Mamdani, though occasionally pragmatic, is putting hard-left ideologues into power and will face further political fallout.
- Housing Policy Critique:
- Lehman calls attention to policy failures—specifically, rent control laws that have led to tens of thousands of unrentable apartments—and a slew of new left-leaning legislative proposals:
- “Now he's going out saying the landlords are the problem… appoint these crazy communists… but it is the result of the policies that he wants to implement.” [47:06, Lehman]
- Lehman calls attention to policy failures—specifically, rent control laws that have led to tens of thousands of unrentable apartments—and a slew of new left-leaning legislative proposals:
- Legal Dangers:
- Cohen notes the city’s aggressive legal stance risks federal challenges to rent control:
- “It's an extraordinary statement… opens the door for the Supreme Court… to basically overturn rent stabilization rent control laws in New York City.” [48:37, Cohen]
- Cohen notes the city’s aggressive legal stance risks federal challenges to rent control:
4. Goat Grinders: Personal Pet Peeves
Segment Begins: [49:46]
Michael A. Cohen:
- Advocates Larry David’s rule: Never wish “Happy New Year” after January 7th.
- “You shouldn't be wishing Happy New Year's after January 7th… you lost your chance.” [50:24, Cohen]
Mike Pesca:
- Criticizes New York Times coverage of congestion pricing, arguing the improvements (e.g., bus speeds) are marginal and data is sometimes misleading.
- “They noted… bus speeds have increased by four and a half percent... but that’s from 8 mph to 8.5 mph.” [51:16, Pesca]
Charles Fain Lehman:
- Debunks the “Heritage Americans” meme circulating in far-right circles, showing most Americans do not fit that lineage in any way.
- “The overwhelming majority of Americans are not heritage Americans, and they haven't been for decades and decades…” [54:16, Lehman]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Trump Doctrine:
- “Act swiftly, act decisively, act with overwhelming force and then be done. This is what we saw in the Iran strikes. This is what we saw in the killings against Soleimani. This is what we saw in taking Maduro.” [14:08, Lehman]
-
On U.S. Intervention Skepticism:
- “You cannot just threaten to kill a foreign leader… if they won't hold a free and fair election… That's not that free.” [25:34, Pesca]
-
On Housing Policy:
- “You cannot see this stuff outside of the context of the housing environment that was built by the machine that helped install Zahra Mamdani in power… It’s nuts, but it is the result of the policies that he wants to implement.” [47:04, Lehman]
-
On Political Strategy:
- “This story… I do not think it's going to have a huge impact because ultimately, this election is not about fraud in Minnesota… It's about, do you like Donald Trump or do you not like Donald Trump?” [39:52, Cohen]
-
On Ideological Appointments:
- “If she wants to be in a position of public trust, the fact that she's a bigot is relevant, and that's what she is.” [42:36, Lehman]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Venezuela & U.S. Foreign Policy: [09:49] – [33:37]
- Minnesota Politics & Tim Walz: [33:37] – [41:17]
- NYC Housing Policy & Sia Weaver: [41:17] – [49:46]
- Goat Grinders: [49:46] – [55:52]
Tone and Style
Playful, opinionated, and often sardonic, the discussion threads between evidence-based policy analysis, political cynicism, and sharp humor—true to the show’s “responsibly provocative” promise. The panelists spar robustly but without rancor, poking fun at each other and themselves throughout.
Summary for the Uninitiated
If you missed this episode, you’ll come away with a shrewd understanding of why the latest U.S. intervention in Venezuela is so divisive, what Tim Walz’s resignation means for Democrats, and how hard-left housing ideology is sparking new flashpoints in New York City politics. The panelists’ analysis is seasoned with context, data, and sharp insight—plus a few laughs and gripes about the news cycle itself. Whether you lean left, right, or just want political clarity over spin, Not Even Mad on The Gist delivers a fast-paced, nuanced perspective on the week’s big stories.