The Gist: "Not Even Mad" with Rikki Schlott and Isaac Saul

Host: Mike Pesca
Guests: Rikki Schlott (New York Post), Isaac Saul (Tangle News)
Release Date: August 21, 2025

Overview

This episode of The Gist delivers a spirited trilateral discussion between Mike Pesca, Rikki Schlott, and Isaac Saul. The panel tackles several high-profile issues including federal intervention in D.C. policing, crime policies and messaging, university free speech and federal involvement, the concept of "toxic empathy," and the rise in recognition of Palestine. Blending their distinct media and political perspectives, the hosts challenge each other while aiming to “refute without being mad,” offering listeners a nuanced look beyond partisan dogma.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Federal Intervention in D.C. Policing

• Context: The Trump administration considered and partially rolled back plans for federal takeover of policing in Washington, D.C., amid concerns about rising crime and underreported statistics.
• Main Arguments:
  • All Panelists: Agreed D.C. faces a significant crime problem, especially in murder rates (down to 25/100,000 but still among the nation's highest).
  • Isaac Saul (12:51): Opposes the idea of federal policing but notes Democrats’ poor messaging creates an opportunity for Trump to win the public argument despite flawed solutions.

    “Americans would rather a politician who has a bad solution for a problem that they're stating honestly than a politician who tells you that the problem you're seeing and experiencing isn't real or doesn't exist.” (Isaac Saul, 19:21)

  • Rikki Schlott (15:13): Sees a failure by progressive local governance, especially regarding repeat offenders, but still opposes federal intervention.
  • Pesca (14:30): Argues homicide is the best indicator of urban crime and that statistics often cloud the real lived experience.

    “Statistics don't appeal to people, but their bodies—we're talking about bodies.” (Pesca, 22:09)

2. Crime, Messaging, and Political Realities

• Democrat Messaging: All agree Democratic leaders have created a messaging vacuum on crime, focusing on relative improvements rather than addressing ongoing safety concerns head-on.
• Isaac Saul (19:21): Emphasizes honesty about the problem over posturing with statistics.
• Rikki Schlott (20:59): Notes that the effects of policies like police defunding hit hardest among the most vulnerable, often against the interests Democrats claim to represent.
• Personal Anecdotes: Panelists share stories of crime encounters in D.C. and New York, reflecting on how personal stories shape public opinion more than numbers.

3. College Free Speech, Federal Oversight, and Culture Wars

• The Trump Administration’s College Actions: The panel discusses how federal threats (such as funding cuts) prompted universities to change policies amid accusations of anti-Semitism and DEI excesses.
• Rikki Schlott (33:26): Believes organic change and introspection were underway before federal intervention, which ultimately stunted progress and turned students into martyrs.

  “The federal government came in and just ruined all of that organic momentum and created martyrs out of random students…” (Schlott, 33:26)

• Isaac Saul (38:14): Calls the federal approach "extortion" and argues forced change is counterproductive, fueling further activism against imposed reforms.
• Pesca (32:19): Skeptical that incremental (“scalpel”) solutions are effective against deeply entrenched institutional power, but argues for targeted, technically feasible fixes when possible.

4. Toxic Empathy: Concept and Consequences

• Defining “Toxic Empathy”:
  • Schlott (43:51): Describes cases where empathy becomes counterproductive, as with judges repeatedly releasing a recidivist teenage subway hijacker out of supposed compassion.

    “There’s something genuinely toxic about drinking the Kool Aid of such an extreme look at restorative justice…” (Schlott, 46:11)

• Application to Drug Policy:
  • Saul (48:27): Draws parallels with drug policies where well-intentioned programs (e.g., safe injection sites) may inadvertently prolong harm.
• Expansion to International Policy:
  • Pesca (46:51): Raises the analogy of toxic empathy in the context of Western recognition of Palestinian statehood, questioning whether empathetic gestures actually produce positive change or instead enable bad actors (e.g., Hamas).

5. The Recognition of Palestine: Empathy or Bad Policy?

• Pesca (46:51): Questions whether recent moves by Western countries to recognize Palestinian statehood are truly empathetic or simply strategies for appeasing domestic audiences.
• Isaac Saul (48:27): Sees official recognition as empty symbolism when there’s no viable, legitimate Palestinian government, calling the move "bullshit" likely to backfire.

  “They're selling this bill of goods like we can grant statehood and resolve the war… when we're not even there.” (Saul, 48:27)

• Rikki Schlott (53:00): Argues that online activism and algorithm-driven news have generated large-scale but possibly superficial empathy, especially among young people, shaping policy conversations.

  “This is the first test case probably of what happens when a war is unfolding in real time on your cell phone for the entire world.” (Schlott, 53:53)

• Impact of Social Media:
  • Saul (57:32): Observes that social platforms and influencers now drive opinions and activism as much as traditional media did for prior generations.

6. The Role of Media and Social Platforms

• Generational Shift:
  • Panel: Discuss how new generations encounter and interpret global conflicts through fragmented, personalized social media feeds—leading to disparate personal realities even within the same university or community.
  • Saul (57:32): Notes the deep, lasting influence new influencers and platforms have in shaping political behavior—often surpassing the traditional editorial class.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Messaging and Crime:

  “Americans would rather a politician who has a bad solution for a problem that they're stating honestly than a politician who tells you that the problem you're seeing and experiencing isn't real or doesn't exist.”
  — Isaac Saul [19:21]

• On Federal Overreach in Colleges:

  “The federal government came in and just ruined all of that organic…momentum and created martyrs out of random students…”
  — Rikki Schlott [33:26]

• On Algorithmic Empathy:

  “This is the first test case probably of what happens when a war is unfolding in real time on your cell phone for the entire world.”
  — Rikki Schlott [53:53]

• On the Inefficacy of Symbolic Gestures:

  “They're selling this bill of goods like we can grant statehood and resolve the war… when we're not even there.”
  — Isaac Saul [48:27]

• On Social Media's Political Power:

  “I do actually feel like my opinion on that has changed and I think the impact is going to be much bigger and [influencers] have much more influence than maybe I thought.”
  — Isaac Saul [57:32]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:30 — Introduction to "Not Even Mad" and guests
• 11:16 — D.C. policing, federal overreach, and crime statistics
• 15:13–19:21 — Discussion on crime policies, progressive DAs, and political messaging
• 29:11–37:25 — College speech policies, federal intervention, and campus activism
• 43:14–46:51 — “Toxic empathy” defined, examples from justice and drug policy
• 46:51–53:00 — Empathy in Middle East policy, recognition of Palestine, critique of symbolism
• 53:00–59:50 — Social media, algorithmic activism, generational shifts in public engagement
• 61:08–64:39 — "Goat Grinders": Panelists’ personal complaints and lighter moments

Tone & Style

The exchange is casual but deeply analytical, with Pesca in particular pushing for precision and honest disagreement. The panelists challenge conventional narratives from both sides and readily share personal anecdotes to ground the political abstractions. The banter is lively but rooted in evidence and reasonable provocation—not outrage.

Conclusion

This episode exemplifies The Gist’s brand of challenging yet reasonable discourse, drawing out both ideological tensions and common ground among its panelists. Whether parsing urban crime stats, critiquing performative policy, or reflecting on the psychological impact of algorithmic empathy, Pesca, Schlott, and Saul dig below the headlines, questioning not just the what, but the why and the how of contemporary politics.

Ideal for listeners seeking trenchant, good-humored analysis unconstrained by partisan orthodoxy and informed by diverse personal experience.