Podcast Summary: The Gist — Not Even Mad: Russ Muirhead & Nick Gillespie
Date: November 25, 2025
Host: Mike Pesca (Peach Fish Productions)
Guests: Nick Gillespie (Reason Magazine), Russell Muirhead (Dartmouth, NH Legislator)
Main Theme
This episode of "The Gist" is a special “Not Even Mad” roundtable that brings together Nick Gillespie, a libertarian editor at Reason magazine, and Russell Muirhead, Dartmouth professor and New Hampshire legislator. Moderated by Mike Pesca, the conversation explores the state of American democratic institutions, legislative dysfunction, the endurance and erosion of democratic norms, Trump-era politics, and the affordability crises in America. The discussion is both incisive and light-hearted, typified by rational disagreement and sharp, memorable exchanges.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Democracy, Lawfare, and Institutional Integrity
- Case Study: Comey and Letitia James Indictments Dismissed
- A federal judge dismissed indictments due to invalid presidential appointment, not on substantive grounds.
- Russ Muirhead (12:52): “There are only rock bottom two things that you need to make democracy work. You need the people who lose elections not take up violence, and people who win elections not use their power to prosecute their opponents... this will take down democracy if this gets normalized.”
- Both guests agree using the justice system as a weapon by those in power is deeply corrosive.
- Nick Gillespie (14:28): “The institutions have been holding… But you can’t keep doing this... At a certain point we need a break from this kind of willful... just like beating the hell out of democracy. I mean, it's not good.”
2. Congressional Abdication & Decline of Legislative Power
- The panel critiques the legislative branch for ceding power to the executive, referencing the ease of presidential tariff implementation and lack of robust congressional oversight.
- Russell Muirhead (17:20): Explains why Senate has not defended its constitutional authority over appointments.
- Nick Gillespie (20:52): Legislative “rot” predates Trump—failure to pass budgets on time, reliance on recess appointments.
3. Systemic Factors Weakening the Legislature
- Media and Money: Parties are weaker, media bypasses party structures; individual politicians more attuned to celebrity than policy.
- Russell Muirhead (24:15): “They don’t want to actually craft public policy. They want a certain amount of celebrity, and they don’t really want to do the hard work that legislators used to do...”
- Nick Gillespie (25:44): Compares modern party dynamics to Stanford’s Morris Fiorina’s “Unstable Majorities;” party activists are more extreme than voters.
4. Policy Debates: The Virtue of Real Deliberation
- Muirhead extols the value of actual debate and policy argument seen in the New Hampshire legislature versus grandstanding and siloed media moments in Congress (30:03).
- Russ Muirhead (31:12): “This is actually what dignifies our politics. We are forcing ourselves to stand up and explain ourselves to each other.”
5. Is Trump a Lame Duck? The Dynamics of Power in 2025
- With recent political developments, there’s speculation Trump’s hold over the Republican Party is starting to wane.
- Russell Muirhead (35:55): "He’s not yet... a lame duck with respect to [inspiring primary voters]... and I don't think there's any guarantee that he's not going to run again."
- Nick Gillespie (36:42): Sees Trump as a “lame duck” with weakening control: “Trump’s agenda is genuinely unpopular... There is going to be a fight that is gearing up among Republican presidential wannabes, which is going to accelerate Trump's loss of control.”
6. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Departure & Political Isolation
- Discussion of MTG’s resignation: was it “rats leaving the sinking ship”?
- Russell Muirhead (40:20): “I think she was super lonely. I think she felt betrayed by Trump and also by MAGA. Democrats think she's barking mad. Republicans think she's out of control and dangerous. She has no friends... Normal people find that kind of loneliness really, really hard to bear.”
7. Populist Cynicism and Pessimism in American Politics
- All agree that widespread pessimism—across generations—is both symptom and fuel for current malaise.
- Nick Gillespie (56:32): “The lack of any kind of, you know, transcendent narrative themes, belief in the future is striking... would be great if we talked about how things have gotten better... but we keep talking about things like it’s, you know, Mad Max, Beyond Thunderdome.”
8. Affordability: Housing, Healthcare & Higher Education
- Both left and right have failed to deliver credible affordability agendas.
- Russell Muirhead (44:32): “I'd love to see a robust politics centered on affordability. In my view, that's what politics should be about. And of course for most people, this is about rent, housing, consumer durables, groceries, but also health care and higher education... the higher ed should be half the cost it is right now.”
- Nick Gillespie disagrees partially, arguing government aid increases costs: “When you... promise massive slobs of money to everybody, institutions, of course, raise their prices to absorb that” (45:51).
Housing Solutions: Supply vs. Non-Supply Side Fixes
- Nick Gillespie (49:34): “Rent control doesn't do that. It's unambiguous... When you see consensus building... it's abundance economy, sovereign abundance, agenda stuff and it's forward life looking. And you see that in Texas [where] you just build, build, build...”
- Russell Muirhead (51:10): Suggests a tax on non-resident property: “Why not have a non resident property tax that's five times the property tax for full time residents?”
- Nick Gillespie: Skeptical of administrative feasibility; real problem is regulatory bloat, not absent taxes (51:44).
9. Generational Despair and Myths of Upward Mobility
- Debate about whether pessimism among college students and Gen Z is justified.
- Nick Gillespie (53:04): “So Dartmouth students are crying the blues. Like, fuck them. They're the sons and daughters of scions of wealth... Gen Z owns more houses at their age than millennials, boomers, or Gen Xers... the housing ownership crisis is everywhere but the data.”
- Russell Muirhead (54:56): "I think just calling them super privileged or whatever probably is going to help [draw them into reality]."
- Mike Pesca and Nick agree widespread “miserablism” comes from both left and right.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Muirhead’s Two Rules for Democracy:
- (12:52) “People who lose elections must not take up violence, and people who win elections must not prosecute their opponents.”
- On Young Americans’ Pessimism:
- (53:04) Nick Gillespie: "So Dartmouth students are crying the blues. Like, fuck them. They're the sons and daughters of scions of wealth, you know. No, they don't get to do that."
- Institutional Rot in Congress:
- (20:52) Nick Gillespie: “Congress always finds a way to misplace its spine before they show up for work the few weeks out of the year that they actually convene.”
- On Unpopular Policies and Party Futures:
- (36:42) Nick Gillespie: “He [Trump] is not popular. His policies are not popular. And I think Republicans are starting to recognize that... there's going to be a fight that is gearing up among Republican presidential wannabes, which is going to accelerate Trump's loss of control...”
- Pessimism Across the Political Spectrum:
- (56:32) Nick Gillespie: “It's everybody. ... The lack of any kind of... transcendent narrative themes, belief in the future is striking.”
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Topic | Timestamp | |---|---| | Introduction of Guests | 08:40 – 09:51 | | Mascots, Institutional Introductions | 09:51 – 11:04 | | Comey/James Indictment Dismissal & Lawfare | 11:12 – 14:28 | | Congressional Abdication, Separation of Powers | 17:20 – 22:02 | | Causes of Legislative Dysfunction | 24:15 – 27:24 | | The Value of Real Debate | 30:03 – 31:37 | | Trump's Power & Lame Duck Debate | 35:33 – 39:15 | | Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Departure | 39:28 – 41:39 | | Populist Cynicism & Generational Despair | 53:04 – 56:32 | | Affordability: Housing, Healthcare, Higher Ed | 44:32 – 51:47 | | Goat Grinder (Pet Peeves) Segment | 59:09 – End |
Tone and Style
- Lively, Reasoned, Collegial: The conversation is provocative yet measured—panelists disagree without rancor and show willingness to challenge each other’s assumptions.
- Clever and Candid: Humor and candid language pepper the discussion, notably from Nick Gillespie (“Like, fuck them,” on Ivy League student malaise; 53:04) and Mike Pesca’s wry asides about generational pessimism.
- Principled Difference: Both guests stick to their ideological priors yet respect the other’s views and expertise.
Final Segment: The Goat Grinder (Pet Peeves)
- Nick Gillespie: Satirical Hollywood TV shows that don’t “go hard enough” (59:09) — prefers scathing to soft send-ups.
- Mike Pesca: Trigger warnings for Greek tragedies—“Greek dramas, especially Sophocles, without murder and suicide have no plot” (63:26).
- Russell Muirhead: Piped-in music at restaurants prevents meaningful conversation—he’s repeatedly (but fruitlessly) asked to have it turned down (65:18).
Conclusion
This “Not Even Mad” episode is a robust, enlightening discussion on the health of American democracy, the reasons for legislative atrophy, the vibrancy (or lack thereof) of political debate, the future of the Republican Party, and America’s affordability crises in housing, higher education, and more. The exchange is instructive for listeners seeking sharp but civil analysis of current affairs—delivered with wit and a dose of optimism amid the prevailing "miserablism."