Podcast Summary: The Gist – “Not Even Mad: Ruy Teixeira and Jesse Adams”

Date: January 29, 2026
Host: Mike Pesca
Guests: Ruy Teixeira (The Liberal Patriot), Jesse Adams (The Ivy Exile/The Washington Examiner)

Episode Overview

In this edition of "Not Even Mad," Mike Pesca convenes a roundtable with political analyst Ruy Teixeira and journalist Jesse Adams for a spirited yet measured discussion about immigration enforcement under Trump, public and political responses to recent ICE tragedies, and America’s evolving relationship with Europe post-Greenland-summit. The conversation mixes sober political analysis, memorable quotes, and the hosts’ trademark witticisms. Later, the hosts share candid “goat grinders” (pet peeves) about sports commentary, TV salaries, and the slow demise of common cultural touchpoints.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. ICE Aggression and Minnesota Tragedies

(08:05–32:50)

• Setting the table: The conversation centers on recent ICE-related killings in Minnesota and their impact on public sentiment and Trump administration policy.
• Pesca highlights the repeated pattern: after each overreach or tragedy, Trump’s response is to reassign personnel but double down rhetorically, not to moderate policy.
  • “He essentially called [Republican senators] losers, because even killings…are not going to get that tiger to change his stripes.” (09:00)
• Jesse Adams critiques the Trump approach: current ICE tactics play to the more racist parts of the Trump base but don't meaningfully curb illegal immigration. The real solution is employer enforcement, which is politically unpopular.
  • “It’s chum in the water that satisfies perhaps the more racist parts of the Trump base, but it’s not effective.” (11:19 – Jesse)
• Ruy Teixeira contextualizes ICE excesses as a consequence, partially, of the prior Democratic administration’s lack of robust border enforcement, leading to a backlash:
  • “The predicate for what’s going on today goes back to Democrats and particularly Biden’s policies…they basically have not been too interested in border enforcement for a long time.” (12:22 – Ruy)
  • Trump proved shutting the border was possible, but in "interior enforcement," his coalition unleashed unnecessarily aggressive tactics, especially in sanctuary cities, resulting in tragedy.
• The Cruelty Debate: Pesca references Adam Serwer’s “the cruelty is the point” argument. Jesse Adams asserts that perceived cruelty is partly unavoidable and partly political theater to deter would-be migrants, but sees real enforcement as a form of protection for American workers.
  • “Some degree of cruelty is just absolutely unavoidable…if it isn’t a sword of Damocles hanging over somebody’s head, then they have no reason not to come.” (17:29 – Jesse)
  • “I just tend to see immigration enforcement as more a measure of love and protection for working class Americans…than cruelty of wanting to throw people out.” (20:10 – Jesse)
• Ruy’s Rebuttal: He agrees that necessary enforcement involves difficult trade-offs, but critiques the narrative of “cruelty is the point” as a dodge:
  • “Framing it as just cruelty or not cruelty, the farther away you are from a solution.” (24:48 – Ruy)

2. Public Opinion and Political Fallout

• Pesca cites polling: Americans broadly support interior enforcement (72%), but over half (54%) think ICE is too forceful if it sweeps beyond real criminals.
  • “On the one hand, shows maybe the reasonableness of Americans. On the other hand, maybe it shows their wishful thinking.” (21:18)
• Ruy notes that prior to the killings, ICE and Trump’s immigration numbers were already slipping, suggesting public disillusionment had been building.
  • “Even before the apotheosis of these problems…approval of ICE was losing altitude.” (26:38)
• The hosts point out that friction is worsened because of non-cooperation by Democratic-run “sanctuary cities.”
  • “If authorities in Democratic-run cities had cooperated with ICE…incendiary situations [would be] far less.” (27:57 – Ruy)
• Both sides—ICE agents and activists—are blamed for escalating tensions; the Trump administration is critiqued for “wanting the conflict,” but is now losing public support.

3. Solutions and Missteps

• Jesse advocates for carrots and sticks: incentivize cooperation by threatening federal funding (e.g., highway funds)—a more surgical approach than blanket crackdowns.
  • “If [Trump] could…incentivize [sanctuary leaders] to minimally cooperate just by making it really clear, you’re going to lose a third of your highway funds…” (31:16 – Jesse)
• Ruy agrees: A more calibrated policy would have been effective and less destructive, but “shock and awe” is the governing instinct of the Trump team.

4. Trump and America’s Role in Europe

(34:15–54:29)

• Recent “Greenland” episode: Trump’s saber rattling and performative desire to acquire Greenland as leverage at a NATO summit is dissected.
• Jesse: It was partly egotistical—Trump wants to make a historic territorial gain on the nation’s 250th birthday—but mostly a negotiation tactic: demand far more than you expect to get.
  • “He added the most territory since the Gadsden purchase or whatever, and that it was on America’s birthday.” (35:45 – Jesse)
• Ruy: Trump “loves to mess with people’s heads.” While overdone, his aggressive posture prompted needed reflection on Europe’s overreliance on the US and challenges to their welfare/social model. Trump’s “theatrics are part of what you buy with Trump, but it’s not like there’s not a rational kernel in there.” (38:50)
• The guests agree that, despite bluster, Trump highlights real issues: Europe’s underinvestment in security, mismanagement of migration, and institutional stagnation.
• Ukraine as a Turning Point: The ambivalence of U.S. leadership in Ukraine and the rise of populist parties in Europe leave European leaders especially jumpy and uncertain.

5. Is NATO Obsolete or Just Changing?

• Pesca: Argues it's overwhelmingly in the US interest to maintain a NATO alliance, despite allies’ shortcomings. The alternative—letting Russia regain influence—is riskier.
  • “Germany essentially without an army. France with an army, but only in Africa…If you said this was going to be the situation…most historians would say wow, what a great situation.” (45:31)
• Jesse questions NATO’s future role, citing deep demographic and cultural changes, especially in the UK, and the EU’s democratic deficit.
  • “I’m not sure how useful or relevant NATO will be in another 20 years.” (47:16 – Jesse)
• Ruy: Suggests Europe must recalibrate expectations and focus on a more realistic, mutual defense framework. Pretense that nothing has changed is unwise:
  • “Let’s not pretend everything’s great and nothing needs to change and Europe and America are exactly the same as they ever were.” (50:20)

6. American Honor and the Weight of Alliance

• Pesca admits to feeling “ashamed” of Trump’s posture given NATO’s loyalty to the U.S. (e.g., after 9/11, Denmark’s disproportionate sacrifice).
  • “Isn’t it a bit shameful that the only time Article 5 was ever invoked, it was to help the United States after 9/11…?” (51:02)
• Jesse agrees Trump’s rhetoric is “shameful,” but also feels Europe has taken the US for granted. Ruy summarizes: “No more Mr. Nice Guy” has been said for years, but Trump is the only one who means it—though he always overdoes it.
  • “It seems to be hard either left or right to have a reasonable but strong approach to a lot of these issues and not overdo it in either direction.” (54:29 – Ruy)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jesse Adams on employer enforcement:
  “The priority should be going after unscrupulous employers rather than tackling day laborers in Home Depot parking lots.” (11:37)

• Ruy Teixeira on public opinion:
  “People now associate what the Trump administration is doing in terms of interior enforcement with…rounding up day laborers…that’s not necessary to actually have effective interior enforcement.” (22:25)

• Mike Pesca on political style:
  “A lack of excess does not characterize their methods or their thinking.” (20:31)

• Jesse Adams on Blue Bloods spin-off:
  “So Blue Bloods was the equivalent of like eating a big meaty chuck steak…Boston Blue…is the most contrived waste of time…assuming people are looking at their phones and not paying attention kind of programming.” (58:33)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [08:05] Immigration, ICE killings, interior enforcement debate begins
• [11:14] Jesse: critique of Trump’s tactics and call for employer focus
• [12:22] Ruy: Democratic policies as the predicate for the backlash
• [16:30] The “Bankruptcy of Democrats’ Don’t Be Cruel” approach
• [22:25] Public opinion on interior enforcement (with stats)
• [27:57] Ruy: Sanctuary city cooperation, escalation of protests
• [31:16] Jesse: Incentivizing cooperation over confrontation
• [34:15] Transition to US-Europe: Trump’s Greenland gambit, NATO worries
• [40:27] Ukraine, the “middle power” dilemma, Europe’s internal struggles
• [51:02] Pesca: American honor and the meaning of alliances
• [54:29] Transition to “Goat Grinders” (pet peeve closing segment)
• [56:06] Rui: Major League Baseball salaries and sports economics
• [56:57] Jesse: Lamenting the death of broadcast TV culture and bad spinoffs

Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, lively, and occasionally irreverent—a blend of wry humor and serious political critique. Pesca keeps the guests on their toes, while both Teixeira and Adams display deep expertise and ideological nuance.

Conclusion

This episode of The Gist delivers a substantive and lively discussion that goes beyond familiar partisan talking points. It unpacks the roots of America’s immigration enforcement crisis, examines shifting political norms in the U.S. and Europe, and injects an authentic, lived-in perspective on contemporary politics, television, and sports.

Memorable sign-off:
Pesca: “We’re not saying we’re right. We’re not saying you’re right. Oh, no, no, no. But we are saying we’re not even mad.” (61:13)

For further listening:

• Jesse Adams’ Substack: Ivy Exile
• Ruy Teixeira’s Substack: The Liberal Patriot

(Episode skips ads and non-content sections as requested.)