Podcast Title: The Gist
Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: E. Jean Carroll
Episode: Not Her Type: E. Jean Carroll vs. The President
Release Date: August 6, 2025

Introduction

In this poignant episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca engages in a compelling conversation with E. Jean Carroll, a renowned columnist who recently triumphed in a multimillion-dollar legal battle against former President Donald J. Trump. Carroll's influential book, Not My Type: One Woman versus A President, delves deep into her harrowing experience and the subsequent legal journey. Pesca approaches the subject with a measured perspective, acknowledging the skepticism surrounding Carroll's allegations while affirming the credibility of her case.

Background: E. Jean Carroll and Her Encounter with Donald Trump

E. Jean Carroll recounts the infamous incident that became the focal point of her lawsuit against Trump. The encounter occurred in a dressing room at Bergdorf Goodman in Manhattan, where Trump allegedly sexually assaulted her.

E. Jean Carroll [10:08]: “Ever since the age I was 12 years old, I've been in pursuit of the story. I wanted to write the story.”

Carroll emphasizes her lifelong dedication to storytelling and journalism, which ultimately led her to document and expose the assault.

The Legal Battle and Its Nuances

Carroll provides an insightful overview of the legal proceedings that ensued following her decision to come forward. She discusses the challenges she faced, including defamation claims and the shifting legal landscape that eventually supported the Adult Survivors Act.

E. Jean Carroll [21:54]: “I know there would be a price, but I was willing to pay it.”

The initial lawsuit, known as Carol1, was centered on defamation rather than the sexual assault itself, due to the statute of limitations. However, legislative changes paved the way for Carroll to pursue justice more directly.

The Trial: Strategy and Preparation

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the preparation for the trial. Carroll describes the meticulous efforts undertaken by her legal team to present her case effectively, including mock trials to gauge and refine their approach.

E. Jean Carroll [34:19]: “I had to look fuckable.”

Carroll candidly discusses the personal and strategic choices made to ensure she appeared credible and relatable to the jury. This included collaborating with her hairstylist to recreate her appearance from 1996 accurately.

She also highlights the flawed defenses employed by Trump, particularly his failure to recognize her in photographs presented during the deposition.

E. Jean Carroll [33:00]: “He didn't recognize Ivana. And then he looks at my husband, John Johnson... he said, that's Marla. And Haba Alina... he said, that's Carol.”

This inability to accurately identify Carroll served as a pivotal moment in undermining Trump's credibility in the eyes of the jury.

Challenges Faced and Overcoming Adversity

Carroll openly discusses the personal toll the ordeal took on her, including the initial lack of support and the backlash she faced upon making her allegations public.

E. Jean Carroll [17:39]: “We live in a liberal bubble. We didn't even see the gender divide in this country.”

She reflects on the societal barriers that made it difficult for her and other women to come forward, emphasizing the systemic issues that protect powerful men from accountability.

Societal Implications and the MeToo Movement

The conversation extends to the broader context of the MeToo movement and its impact on societal attitudes toward sexual assault and powerful perpetrators.

E. Jean Carroll [45:16]: “Right now we're going backwards and we'll go forwards again... Women have been shoved back about 50 years.”

Carroll voices concerns about recent political and social developments that threaten to undermine the progress made in advocating for women's rights and safety.

Victory and Its Aftermath

Carroll shares her feelings following the jury's decision, which awarded her a substantial sum in damages against Trump, reflecting the jury's support for her claims.

E. Jean Carroll [41:02]: “I never cared about the money. I don't care about the money now because I'm gonna give it away.”

Her primary motivation was not financial gain but restoring her reputation and holding Trump accountable for his actions.

Reflections on Justice and Moving Forward

In concluding the interview, Carroll discusses the importance of continuing the fight against sexual assault and the necessity for societal change to protect and support survivors.

E. Jean Carroll [46:29]: “I'm getting sick of people sitting on their lazy asses. So anybody who has nothing to do, go to E. Jeancarol substack. I'm going to start a little something and we're going to disrespect the president.”

Her unwavering determination serves as an inspiration for ongoing advocacy and resilience in the face of adversity.

Conclusion

This episode of The Gist offers a profound exploration of E. Jean Carroll's courageous stand against one of the most powerful men in the world. Through personal anecdotes, legal intricacies, and societal commentary, Carroll and Pesca shed light on the enduring struggle for justice and equality. The conversation underscores the importance of believing survivors and the continuous effort required to dismantle systemic barriers to accountability.

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Pesca [00:00]: “I wouldn't put Eugene Carroll on if I disbelieved her.”

• E. Jean Carroll [12:15]: “It does feel like it's for your life. It does feel like that. And it was intense.”

• E. Jean Carroll [27:44]: “I've had some. It's not unusual though. It's just that I remember him.”

• Mike Pesca [24:58]: “Believe women is actually a slogan that I find some problems with because some women lie.”

• E. Jean Carroll [34:19]: “I had to look fuckable.”

• E. Jean Carroll [44:29]: “It's not the guy who's innocent. The guy who's innocent sits there and says, what the hell are you doing? I'm innocent.”

These quotes encapsulate the emotional depth, strategic challenges, and unwavering resolve that define Carroll's journey toward justice.