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- [00:01]
Mike Pesca
This episode is brought to you by the Nissan Armada Pro 4X with a twin turbo V6 engine ready to propel your adventures.
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Jim Rooney
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Mike Pesca
Space for eight passengers.
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Jim Rooney
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Mike Pesca
Up and spit out anything you throw at it. Learn more about the all new 2025 Nissan Armada at nissanusa.com Towing capacity varies by configuration. See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual for additional information. Always secure cargo I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can. 1, 2, 3 will that be cash or credit? Credit 4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion that does the heavy lifting so you can do. You get yours@samsung.com compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy do you like listening to those ads? Would you rather hear an ad free version of the Gist? Well, it's your lucky day because in the lab we've developed such an animal. It's like the vegan meat of podcasting. Go to subscribe.mike pesca.com to become an ad free subscriber or choose from other tiers with additional bonus content and they all taste like chicken. Enjoy the show. Foreign December 24, 2024 from Peach Fish Productions, it's the Gist. I'm Mike Pasca. Sean O'Brien, head of the Teamsters Union, appeared on Tucker Carlson yesterday. It was a good interview. Got two issues of class and disconnect working people feel towards Democrats. Carlson was very interested in the idea of Boston's changing demographics coinciding with it becoming a worse city, but he mostly gave O'Brien room to air his complaints. O'Brien offered up an meeting with Kamala Harris that did not go well. He said the Teamsters gave every presidential candidate a list of 16 questions. The other candidates answered them all. Trump RFK Jr. Asa Hutchinson. O'Brien actually reminded me that Asa Hutchinson ran for president. Biden before dropping out, answered six questions. Then came Kamala Harris's interview. It was hard to set the interview up, and during the interview, Harris only answered three questions before an aide slipped her a note saying they had to leave. Here's O'Brien recounting to Tucker Carlson her parting words and her declaration on the way out was I'm going to win.
- [02:41]
Jim Rooney
With you or without you.
- [02:43]
Mike Pesca
She Thought that or said it out loud. She said it out loud. That's insane. So that's crazy behavior. Actually, if you think about it, it was insane behavior, which at that point in time, I knew she was going to lose. Don't know if it's insane. It is audacious if true. Politicians should court constituencies. Right. That's why this interview was being treated as an example of political incompetence, especially after O'Brien established this premise, which went unchallenged by Carlson. That's even a bigger story than speaking at the rnc, is not getting invited to the dnc. Yeah, well, that was, you know, that was the vindictive side of the Democratic Party. And, you know, I'm a Democrat, but, you know, I'm gonna call balls and strikes.
- [03:25]
Jim Rooney
You know, they haven't done shit for us.
- [03:27]
Mike Pesca
But here's the thing. In 2001, as part of the American rescue plan, the Democrats, and only the Democrats, no Republicans, passed a measure that gifted the Teamsters $34 billion to write their teetering, really their destroyed pension fund. The Teamster press release at the time read, nearly 350,000 Teamster retirees are celebrating today over the announcement that the central state's PEN pension fund will be granted $36 billion by the pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. The grant ensures they will enjoy their full pension benefits for the rest of their lives. Some discrepancy. 34, 36 billion. It was a lot of billion. So that vote, part of the American Rescue Plan, 219 Democrats voted yes to that, 210 Republicans voted no. Now, on Tucker, and even in the press release, O'Brien talked about those 34, $36 billion. And by the way, $36 billion, let's say, even if it's 34, it's $100 from you, from me, from every one of our kids, from every American, you know, that much money as compelled by law at the behest of the Democrats over the objection of every Republican. That's why the Teamsters have their pensions and that whole process, the $34 billion grant. O'Brien said it was just what the Teamsters were owed. And he made some arguments because, you know, the economy has changed and it's been very unfair to the Teamsters that they're now living in current economic conditions. Some of those conditions being things like, you know, it's harder to unionize and right to work states, which are Republican controlled states, whatever. The political malpractice of candidate Harris, I call deeper malfeasance. I call deep Bullshit. On Sean O'Brien's calculation, Kamala Harris apparently assumed that the Teamsters would not be so insane as to turn their back on the party that gave them 30 something billion dollars. Sorry it didn't give them. It took it from us to give to them. And by the way, that also contributed a bit to inflation which we all suffered from. You're welcome Teamsters. I have no idea if the Democrats will in the future be stupid enough to continue to grovel for Teamster support. There are 350,000 of them after all. If I were a Democrat I would in fact tell them to make like AFL, CIA, Local 681 and pound sand. That's the sand, gravel and crushed stone workers union in other union bosses making dumb choices News the firefighters union declined to back the Democrats in 2024. Last week the 911 health care fund that was set to pass was stripped out of the continuing resolution as part of Elon Musk's fit of pique that Trump approved of and therefore the firefighters now are not going to get their health care funding. The president of the Uniform Firefighters association held a press conference criticizing the decision. He would not engage with the question if he regrets withholding the union's endorsement for Kamala Harris after endorsing Joe Biden in 2020. You know, if I were a member of a union, so I'm going to try to put myself in that position. I'm a blue collar guy. I really don't care for the Democrats stances on cultural issues or maybe even crime or immigration or whatever I think those stances to be. But I look at the $36 billion and I say, you know, I think I could live with putting the X at the end of every gendered word derived from a Romance language. You know, for 30 something billion dollars I'll say unhoused instead of homeless. I'll say whatever crazy word you want. For 30 something billion dollars, I'll give a land acknowledgement, I'll give a sea acknowledgement. I'll give an air acknowledgment these molecules were once breathed by brave indigenous people who are much better than our current people in all the ways I put up with three out of 16 questions answered. I put up with Kamala Harris answering in song if she chose to, or answering with a riddle of her own where the answer to the riddle is an unhoused Latinx, non binary Ivy League swimmer who looks down on my entire family tree for $34 billion. It would in fact be the easiest and greatest bargain in the history of negotiations. And if I were a union member and my president turned his back on the party that got the 34 or 36 billion dollars, I don't know, I might question electing him again. And if I were a politician in the party that's been crapped upon by the union president, I might ask similar tough questions of my own future political interest and votes. I am not a union member. I am not a politician. But those were two political entities who I once thought actually understood politics. Maybe not. They certainly understand feelings of rejection and the glow of a warm Tucker Carlson provided spotlight. You can't retire on either of those. On the show today, it's an Antwin Tig a year rap Antoine Tig. But first, Jim Rooney is the son of the late Pittsburgh Steelers Chairman and President Dan Rooney. Dan Rooney is also US Ambassador to Ireland under Obama. Jim has written a book about his dad, a Different Way to Win Dan Rooney's Story from the super bowl to the Rooney Rule. It's just been released in audiobook form with interviews with Roger Goodell, Paul Tagliabu, Mike Tomlin, Mel Blunt, Franco Harris. It's gotten good reviews, you could say an immaculate reception. This interview will be a good prep for tomorrow's game as the Steelers face the Chiefs. 1pm Jim Rooney up next. Your data is like gold to hackers. They're selling your passwords, bank details and private messages. McAfee helps stop them, Secure VPN keeps your online activity private, AI powered tech scam detector spots phishing attempts instantly and with award winning antivirus you get top tier hacker protection. Plus you'll get up to $2 million in identity theft coverage. All for just $39.99 for your first year. Visit McAfee.com, cancel anytime terms apply. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn more@discover.com credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen football is the most dominant not just media but cultural product in America. If you look at the 50 most watched TV shows, 47 of them will be NFL games. Why football looks good on tv but the real why dig down comes down to luck, fortune, the game itself, but the vision of a few men. And if there were a Mount Rushmore. For football, you'd have to put, I think Pete Roselle, maybe Vince Lombardi or George Hallis, but I think you would have to put Dan Rooney and Art Rooney, his father, on there. But I want to talk about Dan Rooney. Dan Rooney was the son of the founder of the Steelers, and now his son Jim Rooney has written a book looking back at the business prowess, but the personal magnetism and touch of his father. A Different Way to Win Dan Rooney Story from the super bowl to the Rooney Rule. Jim, welcome to the gist.
- [11:42]
Jim Rooney
Mike, it's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
- [11:45]
Mike Pesca
So you are one of nine children, is that correct?
- [11:48]
Jim Rooney
I'm the eighth of nine children, yes.
- [11:50]
Mike Pesca
Do you think having so many kids in the house helped your dad deal with large groups or negotiate different personalities?
- [11:59]
Jim Rooney
Well, I think he dealt with us because he had been doing that. You know, my father grew up with the Steelers. They were, they started just before his first birthday. And he was that kid that was on the sideline with my grandfather from the youngest day. He was a ball boy. He was in the locker room. My father was actually a pretty good high school football player and he got a hard time because he was the second place on the All Catholic All Star team in 1950 and a junior beat him out. The junior's name was Johnny Unitis. So that wasn't a bad guy to beat you up. But my father was a football guy and, you know, so I think the idea of being around teams helped him with us. I don't know that we helped him with the team.
- [12:44]
Mike Pesca
Right. And I notice in your book, when you mentioned Johnny Unitis, most people would say, you know, Baltimore, great. But you say Pittsburgh native Johnny Unitis.
- [12:52]
Jim Rooney
Absolutely.
- [12:53]
Mike Pesca
So Southside slopes give me a sense of how big the Steelers or the NFL were when your grandfather Art, founder of the team, was the CEO. And maybe pick a time when your dad Dan took over. And what was the difference in how big the leagues were at those different times?
- [13:11]
Jim Rooney
Well, absolutely. I mean, as, as you started with Mike, I mean, the, the football business has just become so massive, such a cultural imprint. My grandfather's number one business was boxing promotion. His number two was, was horse racing. So the Steelers were, you know, they, they weren't a side job, but they certainly weren't the focus. They were really to kind of help fill in the promotional business that. That was working on. Two other items. It would be like, you know, someone today might own, you know, NFL team, an NBA team, and then. And then have a team in some sort of, you know, minor league soccer or something of that nature.
- [13:49]
Mike Pesca
Right, right. And back then, boxing and horse racing were the biggest sports in America. And football, especially pro football, was not even a distant third. Probably way down the list.
- [14:00]
Jim Rooney
Right, right. And, you know, my grandfather, I mean, that's his success, was really in the boxing world, being a promoter in boxing. And, you know, he had a really successful promotion company. He was the first man to promote an open heavyweight type, open heavyweight title fight between two black men, Ezra Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott, after Joe Louis retired. So that's something, you know, we're pretty proud of. But so it was right around then, which is interesting. So right between the 50s, my father was in high school into the early 60s, you know, gets out of college, but, you know, where he really takes over. And my grandfather had. Saw what the NFL was becoming. My grandfather wasn't a great operator, he was a great promoter, but he wasn't good at managing, you know, 100 to do items. And my father became that. And so it was sort of the perfect fit. And if you look at the history of the Steelers, we weren't very good from 1932 to, you know, 1970. And then, you know, my father's sort of management style really, really kind of was the right fit. My grandfather's esprit de corps, I think, was critical. I think he really put people in the organization that were trustworthy and created that sense of trust, which is, I think, an essential component.
- [15:19]
Mike Pesca
Was it mostly a vision about where TV was going that created the juggernaut, the cultural juggernaut that the NFL is?
- [15:30]
Jim Rooney
Yes. Look, I'd love to tell you the Rooneys are the smartest people on earth. We're not by any means, or the mares who made a massively important decision in terms of sharing the revenue, but.
- [15:42]
Mike Pesca
Owners of the Giants, right?
- [15:43]
Jim Rooney
Yep, yep. Pete Rozelle, who was. Who was actually with the Rams at the time and then becomes the commissioner, he understood TV better than anyone else, and he understood that that was our opportunity. And what's interesting, Mike, is that when you look at the decisions that were made, you know, again, we like to talk about this business model and there's this genius behind it. The truth of it was most of it was just reacting to baseball and trying to find, you know, a footprint that was that that could counter their programming because baseball was so much bigger than the NFL. And so baseball was committed to, you know, the local markets and you. We know that the great deal the Yankees have, but the Pirates really can't compete with the Yankees because the television deal isn't the same. And the NFL was this trial idea that why don't we share this revenue that thank God the Mares agreed to in New York because they didn't have to. They were going to be more successful than Green Bay or Pittsburgh ever would be. They make that agreement and that becomes the basis of why you can have a Kansas City Chiefs, a Pittsburgh Steelers, a Tampa Bay Buccaneers compete with the Giants, the Bears, the Rams.
- [16:55]
Mike Pesca
Right, Right. And we take it for granted. I think one Sunday in January, the nation's attention will be on, on businesses based in perhaps Pittsburgh and Indianapolis when. What other time does that happen? Or the most famous person, most prominent person right now in the biggest cultural product of the United States is based and plies his trade out of Kansas City. I'm talking about Mahomes and the Chiefs. We take it for granted, but it is really kind of an amazing thing. Peyton Manning is, I don't know, post football either the best known or the most impactful person. He played most of his career in Indianapolis. We take it for granted, but it's crazy.
- [17:43]
Jim Rooney
Yep. And you look at the World Series this year and it looked like it was going to be great for a while, but I mean, you had the Dodgers and the Yankees and that's fun and I think we all enjoy that. But it also speaks to what you just said. You know, those teams just have such an advantage where the Chiefs, you know, now I love the Chiefs. I love, I love Mahomes, but I'm rooting against them. I don't want to see them do a three peat because that would beat our record from the 70s.
- [18:08]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Yeah. And also, you know, the Steelers will, let's hope they make the playoffs and the chief's fortunes will have to go through or Pittsburgh's fortunes will have to go through Kansas City. So much of your book is about the Rooney rule and I think people might not even know where it comes from. It's named after your dad and the rule is in hiring you have to at least interview a black. Or is it minority candidate? Is that right?
- [18:35]
Jim Rooney
Minority candidate. Was. Was the original rule. And it was, it was one candidate. Now there, there has to be two in the pool. But I think what's interesting in this debate, and I'm not going to go crazy into our culture right now, I'm happy to follow your lead. But my dad really thought about things that we're thinking about sort of in the divide today. He thought about kind of what we would Call the left and the right. And he felt there needs to be some type of intervention because there were so few opportunities. But he also felt these are private businesses and people need to make a decision on who they want to hire, that the final decision should be a transparent, autonomous, if you will, decision. But in the process of interviewing, we should do something to intervene to make sure that folks are getting an opportunity that weren't otherwise getting opportunity. So I think it's a unique rule in that I think that it considers needs, if you will, and arguments from both sides of. Of the owl as we now live. And he did this, you know, 25 years ago. So I think there was some, you know, I think it was important.
- [19:46]
Mike Pesca
How effective was it off the bat? Did it need to be filled in with details to really give it teeth?
- [19:54]
Jim Rooney
So it's. That's such a great question, Mike. So. So my father and a gentleman named John Wooten. John was one of the first African American scouts, and he started an organization called the Fritz Pollard Alliance. And Fritz Pollard alliance is really the affinity group of black and minority employees throughout the NFL, particularly in the football operations, coaches and scouts.
- [20:17]
Mike Pesca
Fritz Pollard being a Hall of Fame quarterback who was black.
- [20:21]
Jim Rooney
Yes.
- [20:21]
Mike Pesca
And he played in the 1910s, Akron.
- [20:24]
Jim Rooney
Pros in, I think, the 1920s. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [20:27]
Mike Pesca
They played against the Dayton Triangles and throw the records out the window.
- [20:30]
Jim Rooney
Yeah, yep. Exactly. Exactly. So. So you had dad and John Wooten, you have this new rule, and you have tremendous success. I mean, you have an 800% increase in the first five years. You shift it or include general managers in year four, and again, you have a massive increase in terms of the number of general managers. So you have all this good momentum, and then dad passes away and John Wooten retires. And so it's a good lesson in how, if we're going to commit to diversity and we can talk about those issues, but if we're going to have policies that they can't just be dependent on the leaders and the advocates, because you had these two great advocates, and during their sort of era, it is very successful. They go away and you have sort of a cliff. I mean, you go from, you know, I think you were at six. Six minority coaches down to one. I think you were at five general managers down to one almost within two years of those two men going away. And so it's a great lesson. And so since then, there has been a lot of conversation about how do you improve the rule. I think technically it is better. And I think some of those improvements are, again, Follow this idea that where do we want to intervene? And I think a lot of folks are resistant at having intervention that ends up being a quota. So how do you make sure in these other parts of the process, you're making sure that folks are included?
- [22:11]
Mike Pesca
The league now gives picks for hiring assistant coaches who are minorities. With the. With the idea being, and this is true, if there's no pipeline, you're not going to have good head coaching candidates. So how do you establish a pipeline? Pretty much through the only incentive that football teams, we're talking about really, really rich owners. So the incentive that they would respond to is a football incentive, something that would help their team, like picks. And that seems to have worked better. My question is, as the rule developed, your name, your family's name was attached to it, and your family is still one of the 32 owners. How instrumental in refining, fine tuning and adding further teeth to the rule have the Rooneys been?
- [22:57]
Jim Rooney
Yeah, so my brother Art is. And throughout all of these improvements was the chairman of the NFL's diversity committee, which is the role that Paul Tagliabu asked my father to serve back in 2003 when it was created. And so you talked about the picks, and it's really an interesting experience there. Again, I hate just framing things as left and right, but for sake of conversation, that's the world we live in. It makes context easy. So when we initially introduced the idea of draft picks, it was the folks on the left. It was a whole bunch of coaches, minority coaches, that said, we don't want that. We don't want to get jobs because there's an additional incentive here for us to be hired. I want to be hired because I'm the best coach. So that got pulled off the drawing board for a year and came back. I think this is 2019 when it came back. And now the incentive is picks, but it's. If you hire a minority coach, he stays with you for two years and then gets a promotion with another team, you get the pick. So you're not incentivized to give someone an actual job and that, you know, they're sort of under a cloud. Are they qualified or not?
- [24:11]
Mike Pesca
Right. Wouldn't want to say. All right, the only reason you hired this guy was you're going to get the picks. You wouldn't get the picks.
- [24:16]
Jim Rooney
Right, Exactly. So I think that was actually a pretty innovative way to create incentives. And Mike, you know this. When you look at sports cultures, you know, sticks can be good and you need tough coaches. And you, I think every once in A while you need someone who's a big disciplinarian. But long term, if you look at most of the successful organizations who last decades, incentives, not punishments, are what build those cultures. And so that's really where the strategy or the philosophy behind let's create incentives rather than make it punitive if you don't do this.
- [24:55]
Mike Pesca
I would say that's especially true among the 32 stakeholders who decide on this rule who aren't gonna worry about where their next meal is coming from if they get quote, unquote punished.
- [25:07]
Jim Rooney
It is unless, unless you take something on the football side away. It's, it's, it's difficult to do that.
- [25:14]
Mike Pesca
Do you think you might not be able to answer this because of litigation, but Brian Flores sued the NFL because he claims that the Dolphins discriminated against him as a head coach. He's now defensive coordinator with the Vikings doing great. Normally he'd be on everyone's lips as a potential head coach. Hiree. Do you think he'll be hired as a head coach?
- [25:39]
Jim Rooney
I certainly hope so. As you know, when he, when, you know, when he went through the situation with Miami, didn't get the jobs that he had interviewed for, Mike Tomlin hired him and he came to the Steelers for years as a defensive assistant. And, you know, we had known Brian before that, but really got to see, you know, he is just a tremendous football coach. You know, like you said, I'm not going to get too deep into the lawsuit. He's standing up for what he believes in on the legal side, but, you know, his ability to coach is, is as equal to anyone's in the league. And I certainly hope that, that someone realize that. And frankly, I think that will happen. I think at the end of the day, you know, someone is going to say, look, he was in Pittsburgh, they were successful, he's in Minnesota, they become very successful. You know, I want to win if I have to, you know, deal with some, some additional issues, you know, etc. Folks can deal with that, but I want to win, and this coach can help me win.
- [26:38]
Mike Pesca
There's another issue with hiring black or minority head coaches. And I do think this is analogous to everyone out there who doesn't own a football team. I think this is analogous to their own life, which is that it is true or was true for a while that there were fewer minority head coaches hired than whatever rubric you want to use players in the league or just probably potential good candidates. And one of the. And now there are, there are nine, some biracial coaches I think seven black coaches and Hispanic coach. But the argument was that, well, the trend is to hire these offensive geniuses. And for whatever reason, black coaches tend to be on the defensive side of the ball and white coaches tend to be on the. Or the offensive geniuses tend to be white coaches. Now think of the analogy in your own business. Oh, yeah, that's kind of true. A certain kind of person will be more suited for this kind of job, be it CEO or, you know, the chief technology officer. What did you think of that rule? Did you think it was just an excuse or did you say, well, it is true, an offense is super important, so let's try to incentivize more black coaches to become offensive geniuses, Right?
- [27:49]
Jim Rooney
And look, and I think that part of that does go back to the historic prevention of black men being allowed to play quarterback. Because you become your. You play quarterback, then you become the quarterback coach. Then, you know, the most likely path become an offensive coordinator is via quarterback coach. So I think we have to look at that. I think when you look at the numbers of black quarterbacks, you know, I really feel like that that is a. There's a massive change in terms of not just, not just the numbers, but the stars, which is great to see. So I think that is, that is a, that is a data point that is a concern and should be a concern the offensive coordinator. But I think that will change over time. But as you said, Mike, the other sort of problem is the rules in the NFL. And I love the league. I always say I take the free shoes when I go to the league meeting in March, but it's so driven towards offense. The guys in the 70s you mentioned, Jack Ham, Joe Green, Jack Lambert, those guys would get a penalty every play. Now, you know, and you know, people love our sport. I love watching the long throws and the big plays, but I love defensive football too. And the game's just not built that way. So the likelihood of becoming a head coach is much more because of the rules. If nothing else, you know, going to go through the offensive side of the ball.
- [29:14]
Mike Pesca
Jim Rooney is the author of A Different Way to Win Dan Rooney's Story from the super bowl to the Rooney Rule. And the audiobook has the full interviews with many of the principals who are in the book. If you're interested in the Steelers and in sports, but in management and in a very interesting person who tried to define all his interactions by respect and having his bargaining partners also have a win. That was Jim's dad, Dan Rooney. Thank you so much, Jim.
- [29:45]
Jim Rooney
Mike, Thanks a lot and I hope folks enjoy the audiobook, but it's great to be on with you. Really enjoyed it.
- [30:04]
Mike Pesca
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Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tb. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Ask your doctor if Tremphaya can help you manage the cycle of UC symptoms. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tremphyaradio.com and now the spiel. It's an Antwen Tig. Or is it an Antoine Tig is a three week period. But really it has come to be known as just a period of reflection. And I want to. I want to apply the spirit of the twig to the entire year. And as I was looking back on our catalog and content, I feel I need to apologize. Because you know what news is. News is that which is new. But soon things that are new get old, and often things that are old get either spoiled or just become irrelevant. And really, if you are trying to prioritize your life as to what matters, it's not that I didn't give you relevant news. It's not that I wasn't talking about items that were at the top of the news. But now, a year later, do they matter? Do they really matter? Had you never heard the words Jack Smith, Fanny Willis, or Judge Juan Mershan, would your life be much different? Because all of the efforts of these estimable jurors and officers of the court have come to naught, I guess it's interesting to know how they came to not the answer, of course. As with so much else of that which became irrelevant in 2024 is Donald Trump. Did, did any of that really? What if it didn't happen, we ask ourselves. It did happen. It seemed like it happened. But if it didn't happen, how would we know? I don't know. I guess people in the UK could be asking the same question as we are about these characters in the news with such questions as if there was never a human being named Rishi Sunak. Would our lives be that much different? I don't know. Maybe they would. Maybe American lives wouldn't be that different. But what I'm saying is this. I like news, but I like news because it's interesting. But I also kind of like it as a hobby, if I'm being honest. And some people find Vanderpump Rules interesting, and some people find Deadpool vs. Wolverine interesting. I find the last one at least kind of funny. Some of the movies I try not to look down upon the Vanderpump rule crowd. But is it different? Is the news crowd and knowledge of the Rishi Sunaks and the Juan Mershan's, is that so much better than the knowledge of the Stasis and Sheenas? And I can name a couple characters from Vanderpump Rules because maybe it's been playing in my household. I don't know, maybe I'm being too harsh on me. And you, you followed the news, you followed the show. I should probably say something like actual information about world affairs is inherently more valuable because we are citizens in a democracy and we could vote on that, but we're also consumers in a culture. And in fact, living in the democracy as it's set up with an electoral college, I can't really do anything to affect the presidential nomination with what I do personally. I can affect the fortunes of or the ratings of a TV show or the fortunes of a movie. So what I'd like to do in this last Antoine Tig of the year is to apologize for all the things I made, you know, about that you didn't need to know about the ballots that Donald Trump was going to be tossed off of then wasn't. I don't know. We talked to a lot of people about that. Seemed important, was important, would have been important. Can you imagine if he had won? You know, he's almost at a majority of the vote and he still wasn't allowed to have the voters of Maine or Colorado cast a ballot for him. Would that be better? Would justice have been served? I further apologize for any and all of my coverage of this fellow. I Reject this mainstream media general narrative of dismissing something as a conspiracy theory, when in fact I'm a big fan of going after facts, hiding in plain sight. And yeah, Vivek Ramaswamy, he's, he's in the news. He's kind of popular now, I guess. Maybe if you knew about him while he was running, your life's a little better off, I think. I apologize for all my Nikki Haley content. I want to. Rishi Sunak, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy. Am I over indexing for Indian Americans or Indian Brits? No, because I want to apologize for all my coverage of Ron DeSantis. I got none of it wrong. It seemed important at the time. Are we better off knowing or not knowing? Wouldn't we be better off just spending time with philosophy or books? I stand by all the authors on my show. We had so many great authors and rather than go through the best of them, I want to talk about not the worst. This was a good, good author, good book. Just the weirdest phenomenon associated with any book interview that I conducted. I disagreed with what Ernest Scheider, author of the book the War Below, what he presented as his deep conundrum. Let me play some of that here. Well, we'd have had the debate then, I think, you know, in that, in that hypothetical you presented. Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, we don't have a debate whether, you know, pets should wear diapers either. But that's because if we did, and there was a little bit of a movement for that, I think people anticipate it would be something like 90 something percent to single digits percent a flower of a flower is keeping us from this world transforming mineral that we need to get off the addictive poison of fossil fuels. It doesn't seem to me, not a horticulturalist, a particularly hard choice. People have many different perspectives on this and I. But they're just not collectively coming to it. I mean, like I said, Mike, I think that there are plenty of people out there that think, you know, screw the lithium, we just want the flower. There are plenty of people. I read the book, Ernest Schneider pointing out that there's this giant lithium reserve in Nevada and it'd be really great if we had it because we need lithium to run the world as it exists now. But standing in the way, a type of buckwheat, a tiny little flower. And I didn't want to laugh in the fellow's face, but this is not a conundrum at all. Lithium helps us use phones and all the technology that we need to be alive and human in the 21st century. This one, buckwheat, is one little piece of buckwheat. And most of the world's flowers aren't even known. And I even hesitated to bring it up as a legitimate debate. But when I did, you, my listeners, so many of you said, yeah, I'm siding with the flower. Are you crazy? Are you crazy? I just don't understand. That's really. It's just my vexation of the year, the most perplexing thing that happened on the show, that buckwheat beat lithium, My vindication of the year. Will that be Spirit Airlines? Remember when they weren't allowed to merge with JetBlue because the federal government said, no, you've got to keep prices low. And I said, but if you keep them so low, they'll just continue to lose money. And well, cut to this happening last month, Spirit Airlines has filed for bankruptcy. This move comes after a failed merger.
- [38:06]
Jim Rooney
You may remember, with JetBlue.
- [38:08]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Now, what about the title of the year? There's a discussion within just headquarters. Should we just put the name of the person we're interviewing in the title? It'll help people find it. And yet, to our own detriment, we keep coming up with delightful titles. Delightful as defined by what tickles me some runners up for title of the year. Strom Thurman cost him an apartment from the grave. Like there's no way you would possibly understand what that interview was about. I just love that series of words. It tickles my sensibilities. Strom Thurman cost him an apartment from the grave. That is co runner up for title of the year. Another great title of the year was a dearth of Cinema Files. Cinema spelled like Kyrsten Cinema. The former, well, soon to be former senator. And that was also helped by the fact that the description, the show description from that episode said also on the show, the New York Times Union says the paper is racially profiling its own MENA staffers over a leak. Mike provides analysis. Plus, he explains the meaning of Mina, in case you are unfamiliar, which I think is perfect, because as I was going back and reading that description, as soon as it came to MENA staffers, I said to myself, what's the definition of Mina? And then I got to the next sentence, actually, next clause. And I was addressing a concern that a reader or listener might have, because I was that concerned reader. And by the way, Mina is people who are really into Mina Suvari. That is not the title of the year. The title of the year was this Birds aren't real sh don't tell the crested warbler. I just imagine the reality of that title as if someone who really thought that birds weren't real were still sensitive enough to what the crested warbler might think about this. And also this raises the meta question of if they're not real, would the crested warbler think much about it? And even if they are real, could the crested warbler think much about it? The common barn swallow not as funny as the crested warbler in that position. I think. I think that credit to that goes to Joel Patterson, our senior producer. This year's thing that wasn't said, that was the best thing that wasn't said. I'll tell you. I talked about Mark Robinson, who ran for governor of North Carolina quite unsuccessfully, and I even defended one of the things he said is, you know, not calling for actual violence against his political opponents. This is a common habit of mine that someone says something, you know, incendiary or ill advised and his opponents say you're trying to get people killed. It's usually not the case. But I was tempted to give, if not a personal endorsement to describe my personal interaction with Mark Robinson in that I took a plane flight to Israel and there were three members of the North Carolina delegation, two state senators and Mark Robinson, who's the lieutenant governor. And I talked to him for quite a while and I wanted to say something like he doesn't seem murderous or he doesn't seem insane. And I didn't say that. And I didn't say that because he seemed insane because I said to myself, well, he does say a lot of these wacky things in public. This was before the big scandal, which I'm going to get to in a second. He does say a lot of these really irresponsible things. But as a decent enough politician, the fact that in my, I don't know, hour or a total of 50 minutes of conversation with the guy, he came off as somewhat affable, somewhat likable, doesn't mean much. A politician should be able to do that. So I withheld from a personal, even a personal anecdote, let alone a personal endorsement that wound up being the best thing not said, especially as we got to this news. CNN says Robinson, the state's current lieutenant governor, made the comments between 2008 and 2012 on a pornographic website called Nude Africa. Yes, Nude Africa, the Appalachian Trail, the wide stance of this last political cycle. Mark Robinson a habituate on Nude Africa and I remember doing it was either a top of the show or a spiel about this. And I just enjoyed talking about the possible origins of the Nude Africa site. Did it start as Nude Zimbabwe and maybe a new Djibouti? And they all got together and coalesced as a Nude Africa. This was the segment where I delighted myself the most. But this is an Antoine Tig and I have to admit defeat and mistake. The other day I talked about malice aforethought as one of the requirements for libel. I meant actual malice. I actually meant actual malice. And I was rushing and I said that and I didn't give enough forethought to malice aforethought. I meant no one harm. So don't find me guilty of libel or slander and now in the Antoine take we give our Lop Stars. These are the best listeners. The people who interacted with us on some way on Reddit, via email, the Twitter or X machine. Blue Blue Sky. I'm also on Blue sky, which brings me to the runner up for Lobster of the Antoine Tig was catching up with the Antoine Twig. I need to correct one pronunciation. I don't like to nitpick, but Blue sky is a word of old Slavic origin and thus should be pronounced Blue Ski rhymes with Trotsky. This is an excellent point, and it was provided by Peter Schmidt Scamp. And I know it's pronounced Shmita Scamp because he included a pronouncer. Shmita Scamp rhymes with nudist camp or Sphincter cramp. That is excellent. That is excellent. And if the true Lop star of the Antoine Tig and is not Lop Star of the Year, but it is Lop star of this past three week period, which of course goes back many months because we're kind of loose with our definitions. If the actual winner of the Lobster of the Antwern Tig cannot fulfill his duties, Mr. Schmidt scamp will be called in to do so. But our Lobster of the Antoine Tig wrote to me and said this Dear Mike, thanks for turning me on to Musa Al Gharbi's book We Were Never Woke. I thought of the gist when reading page 4849 and then he didn't have to say anything further. Yes, 48 to 49 exactly. But I'll let him go on. Something I admire about your show is that you take risks with your audience and don't kowtow to us. I know you've lost listeners for your positions on, say, Gaza, but it makes you more credible and gains new listeners. Seems to me. And this is. And that was nice. That was nice of him to say. Arguable either way. But it was this next sentence. When someone injects an aphorism into your consciousness and the truth of it is something you think about a lot, I think it deserves credit and reward. And here's the next sentence. Seems to me a healthy media outlet needs to have a dynamic listener base, not a loyal one. And so when someone does tell you a bit of insight like that, and I say it should be rewarded, it's not all the time that you have the means to issue such a reward, but this is why, and thank you for that insight. I hope it's true. I hope all of you as my listeners are happy to be part of this dynamic listener base. But it is also why Anthony Clare, you are the lob star of the Antoine Tig. And it is also why I thank everyone who listened. In 2024 we have more shows to end out the year. It's not over, but it is ever growing, ever changing. And to quote Mr. Claire Dynamic. And that's it for today's show. Joel Patterson helped me with Warbler Construction and is the senior producer of the gist. Cory Wara is the producer of the gist. Leo Baum was our intern for much of, if not all of the year. Michelle Peskis Chief Compliance Officer, Peach Fish Productions Improve and thanks for listening. Foreign.
- [46:25]
Jim Rooney
Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.
- [46:28]
Mike Pesca
It doesn't have to be.
- [46:29]
Jim Rooney
Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host.
- [46:33]
Mike Pesca
You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom.
- [46:38]
Jim Rooney
Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad.
- [46:43]
Mike Pesca
Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself.
- [46:46]
Jim Rooney
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- [46:49]
Mike Pesca
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Jim Rooney
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- [46:57]
Mike Pesca
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