Podcast Summary: The Gist – "Poker Face Goes To Interesting Places"
Release Date: July 11, 2025
Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: Tony Toast, Showrunner of "Poker Face"
Introduction
In this episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca delves into the intriguing world of television storytelling with Tony Toast, the showrunner of the acclaimed series "Poker Face". The conversation explores the show's unique approach to mystery, character development, and the challenges of modern storytelling within established genres.
Mike Pesca’s Slate Interview Experience
Mike begins by sharing his recent experience as a guest on Slate’s political discussion, where he engaged in a debate about former President Donald Trump’s foreign policy. Reflecting on the phenomenon of "esprit de l’escalier"—the perfect retort that comes too late—he muses on how his points were dismissed, setting the stage for a deeper discussion on communication and perception.
Notable Quote:
"Esprit de l’escalier. The spirit of the staircase. It is that phenomenon where you think of the perfect thing to say, only you're out the door and walking down the stairs."
— Mike Pesca [00:03]
Transition to "Poker Face"
Shifting gears, Mike introduces Tony Toast, highlighting Tony’s role in shaping "Poker Face", a show known for its clever mysteries and the protagonist’s uncanny ability to detect lies. The conversation promises insights into the show's creation, casting choices, and narrative strategies.
Discussion with Tony Toast: The Unique Premise of "Poker Face"
Tony Toast elaborates on the show's central character, Charlie, portrayed by Natasha Leone, who serves as a "human bullshit detector." This unique trait sets "Poker Face" apart from traditional mystery series by focusing on the how of solving cases rather than the who, as the perpetrator is revealed at the episode's outset.
Notable Quote:
"Yeah, yeah, it's a really smartly constructed mystery show with interesting, you know, inventive murders. And then [...] it's definitely a key component of a good Poker Face episode."
— Tony Toast [10:26]
Show's Unique Mystery Format
Unlike conventional whodunits, "Poker Face" presents the audience with the murder from the beginning, challenging both Charlie and viewers to unravel the complexities of how the crime was committed. This format emphasizes the protagonist’s analytical skills and the intricate plotting behind each episode.
Notable Quote:
"It's not a whodunit because the first reel of every episode shows you the murder. We always know who it. It’s a how it happened or how they crack the case."
— Mike Pesca [11:31]
Developing Fresh Episodes
Tony discusses the delicate balance of maintaining Charlie’s core ability to detect lies while crafting diverse and engaging storylines. The writing team continuously seeks innovative ways to present mysteries without becoming repetitive, ensuring each episode offers a fresh experience.
Notable Quote:
"It's a core part of it, but you don't want to keep going to the same well every time."
— Tony Toast [12:15]
Exploring Truth and Lies
The conversation delves into the philosophical aspects of truth and deception within the show. They explore scenarios where Charlie must navigate lies that are culturally ingrained or socially necessary, questioning the boundaries of truthfulness in everyday interactions.
Notable Quote:
"Is there a Western centric, you know, bias in terms of what truth is?"
— Tony Toast [15:33]
Casting Process
Tony provides an inside look into the casting process for "Poker Face", emphasizing the importance of securing versatile and talented actors. A standout example is Cynthia Erivo, who plays five different roles in a single episode, showcasing the show's commitment to exceptional performances.
Notable Quote:
"So knowing you need someone with, like, real intense chops to pull it off. And so a multitude of reasons why Cynthia was at the top of the list."
— Tony Toast [26:27]
Genre and Storytelling: Challenges in Modern Westerns
Venturing into Tony’s other projects, the discussion shifts to "Americana", a Western film. Tony articulates the hurdles of producing Westerns in today's entertainment landscape, citing industry biases against rural and flyover-region stories. He underscores the need for authentic storytelling that resonates with diverse audiences beyond metropolitan centers.
Notable Quote:
"It's a major uphill climb to do anything western connected because I think, yeah, it's not seen as an aspirational Genre."
— Tony Toast [31:17]
Final Insights and Wrap-Up
Tony reflects on the interconnectivity between his work on "Poker Face" and his passion for Western narratives. He emphasizes the importance of nuanced character development and the portrayal of complex societal issues through genre storytelling, aiming to offer fresh perspectives within established frameworks.
Notable Quote:
"A modern day Western, whether set in the present day or in the past is going to inevitably also be a commentary on the Western itself."
— Tony Toast [30:25]
Conclusion
The episode concludes with Tony Toast sharing his excitement for upcoming projects, including "Americana", set for theatrical release on August 15th. Mike Pesca encapsulates the rich discussion, highlighting the innovative approaches both he and Tony bring to their respective crafts in storytelling and production.
Key Takeaways:
- "Poker Face" offers a fresh take on the mystery genre by focusing on the how of crimes rather than the who.
- The show emphasizes character depth and complex narrative structures, avoiding repetitive formulas.
- Casting exceptional talent, such as Cynthia Erivo in multiple roles, is pivotal to the show's success.
- Challenges in genres like Westerns stem from industry biases, but authentic storytelling can bridge the gap.
- Tony Toast’s diverse projects reflect a dedication to nuanced and compelling storytelling across genres.
Notable Moments with Timestamps:
- 00:03 – Introduction of "esprit de l’escalier" and its relevance to Mike Pesca’s experiences.
- 10:26 – Tony explains the smart construction of "Poker Face"’s mysteries.
- 12:15 – Discussion on maintaining freshness in episode narratives.
- 15:33 – Exploration of cultural biases in interpreting truth and lies.
- 26:27 – Insights into the rigorous casting process and securing top talent.
- 31:17 – Tony addresses the uphill battle of producing Westerns in modern media.
- 30:25 – Commentary on Westerns serving as reflections on their own genre.
This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the innovative storytelling techniques of "Poker Face" and the broader challenges in the entertainment industry, as discussed by Mike Pesca and Tony Toast.