Loading summary
Transcript34 lines
- [00:00]
Home Depot Advertiser
Memorial Day savings are here at the Home Depot. So take your kitchen to the next level with up to 35% off, plus up to an extra $450 off select appliances like LG. Plan your get togethers with an LG refrigerator you can count on for years to come at the Home Depot. And with the connected ThinQ app, you'll know if the door is left open and when to change the filter. Spend less time worrying this Memorial Day with savings on lg, America's most reliable appliance brand at the Home Depot. Offer valid May 15 through June 4, US only. C Store or online for details.
- [00:30]
Mike Pesca
Hi, it's Mike with a major announcement. It is not about the Gist. It is about something called the Gist List. So let me tell you, every day I construct the show by reading and listening and imbibing a tremendous amount of information. A lot of it doesn't make it onto the show, of course. So what do we do with that? What do we do with the effluvia, the jetsam, the sods, but also the odds. Enter the Gist list. Every day on Substack, I will be compiling the most interesting, important, maybe unfairly ignored stories that I look at and say there's something there. You know, we must nurture that which is interesting in this world. Some of these stories do end up as segments. They all start off as ideas. We need ideas. The Gist list is designed to interest you definitely, not to waste your time to make you smarter. To see where I'm heading every day on the Gist, so head over to Mike pesca.substack.com today and every day to sign up for the Gist list. It's Thursday, May 22, 2020 from Peach Fish Productions. It's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca. You know, a sentiment you don't hear too much of, but I'm going to say it now. We have been very lucky in our last decade or so to have some beneficent billionaires. We've lucked out with the billionaires. And if you don't think that's true and if you have an allergy to billionaires or if you think every billionaire is a crime, really, Paul McCartney, Oprah Winfrey. If you think that billionaires have something to answer for, well, then they changed, didn't they? And you got your Andreessen and you got your especially amongst and you got your specially musks. And they used to be in the category of. Well, I don't think we like them because they're billionaires, but they seem generally on the side of progress. And then they became antithetical to progress, as you or I or most Tesla drivers would define it. And things got worse. Things got appreciably worse. So let's thank our old billionaires who are still giving away billions to help alleviate some of the suffering in the world. I just read the big interview with Bill Gates. Actually I reread it because it was in the New York Times Magazine and in print it seemed more real. The man has a foundation of $77 billion. I do not want to hear, oh, that's but a fraction of his net worth. He has alleviated so much suffering in the world, more so than others in similar situations have alleviated. And then I think of Bloomberg. You don't even know all that Bloomberg does. Do you know in 2021 there was an estimated 300,000 drowning deaths globally. But because of Bloomberg and the Bloomberg charities there would have been 400000 were not for their interventions. In fact, it was a decline of 14,000 drowning deaths and they call it a slight decline, but still 14,000 drowning deaths. The Bloomberg charities do so much and I always think about drowning because no one else thinks about drowning and they've saved tens of thousands of lives. You know, drowning is the number four cause of death for children and young people globally from one to four. And the number three cause of death between five and 14. And who's thinking about this besides Bloomberg? Certainly not the government of Bangladesh or Ghana without Bloomberg. Certainly not the government of the United States. Usaid. So we've been pretty lucky with the beneficence of our billionaires. And now sort of like that one billionaire Warren Buffett used to say, when the tide goes in, you see who's not wearing shorts. We get to see the effect of what happens when our billionaires stop being so beneficent. I'd like to get back to that headier time, that more functional time, that time before the billionaires were working at cross purposes when you could hate their quirks. But still they were taking a lot of carbon out of the atmosphere. I fear that we are entering an era like old eras of the bad billionaires. And I say bring back the good ones. On the show today, the Atlantic Council, one of those serious world bestriding think tanks, has an initiative called Realign for Palestine. And the founder of this is a guy Gazan American named Ahmed Faod Al Khatib. We had him on the show to talk about the nature of that realignment, how he looks at the Palestinian con, how he looks at the Palestinian conflict, how much blame he apportions Israel quite a bit. How much blame he apportions Hamas quite a bit. And what we could do forward Ahmed Foud Al Khatib up next. You know there's a lot of stress out there and sometimes that could have an impact on your performance. You don't like to talk about it, you don't like to think about it, and then it becomes a spiral getting in the way of your performance. If ED is getting you down, you know, the ED that I speak of, Hims will help you get your confidence and some other things back up. You could be ready when the mood strikes. Feeling a little stalled in the bedroom. Through hims you could get some gas back in the tank. And I'm not necessarily even talking about fossil burning fuels. I'm talking about yes, your love engine. HIMSS is changing men's health care by providing you with access to affordable sexual health care treatments from the comfort of your couch. HIMS provides access to a range of doctor trusted ED treatments like chewable tablets. Perhaps you've heard of Viagra and Cialis and you're going to save 95% on these name brand medicines. There's an intake form. A medical provider will determine if it's the right treatment option, then they'll send it to you. No insurance. One Low price covers everything. Start your free online Visit today@hisss.com the Gist that's him s.com the Gist for your personalized ED treatment options himss.com the Gist the featured products include compounded products which are not approved nor verified for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions and important safety information. Prices vary based on product and subscription plan. So I really should start wearing clothes other than True Work, but I don't really see why other than social convention. I mean is the argument well, what about fashion? True Work has me covered. Literally. The stuff looks great. If the issue is performance, there is no issue. True Work is hell bent on creating the most technical high performance workwear in the world. Started in the Colorado mountains where a trade worker knew there has to be something better than this. I mean they haven't really updated denim and canvas in 200 years. So then True Work started engineering for comfort, for protection, for efficiency. They weigh very little but work very hard. Super soft, stretchy sweat, wicking soft shell work pants, wind and waterproof shells, intelligently placed insulation for streamlined warmth. The stuff looks good. I get a lot of compliments. There are very cool colors involved too. Check out the 50,000 5 star reviews upgrade to True Work for a major change in the way you work. True Work helps you be your best when your best matters. I'm now going to tell you how to get a great discount on True Work, but please listen to the spelling. Check out the full lineup and get 15% off your first order at truewerk.com thegist that's 15% off at t r u e w e r k.com/the gist realign for Palestine is a project of the Atlantic Council. It was started by Ahmed Foud Al Khatib. He is a Gazan, a Palestinian. He now lives in America. He has an amazing story and I think also an important message that it's hard to break through. And that's what he's trying to do with me here with the Atlanta Council with TED Talks or TED ish Talks. Welcome to the gist.
- [09:00]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Thank you so much for having me.
- [09:02]
Mike Pesca
Tell me, tell my audience because I know some of this about your life story as a Gazan and how this war is having, even at this moment, a horrifying impact on you and your family.
- [09:16]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Well, I left the Gaza strip as a 15 year old teenager to be an exchange student in the United States for a year long program. It was a post 911 initiative to build cultural bridges between our two countries or our two regions of the world. Upon completing that high school exchange program, I attempted to return to Gaza in the summer of 2006. Hamas had already taken over the coastal enclave following the 2006 Parliamentary and Municipal elections that took place in both Gaza and in the west bank, as well as the mini brewing civil war, if you will, between itself and the Palestinian Authority. And then there was Hamas carried out an abduction of Gilad Shalit, a young Israeli soldier on the Israeli side of the Gaza border and that resulted in a mini war that got the borders closed between Gaza and Egypt, which is where I was. That's how Palestinians in Gaza and the majority of cases travel in and out of the Strip. You have to cross land crossing there. And so after months of being stuck in Egypt, I was able to return to the United States thanks to the support of human rights and peace activists who allowed me the opportunity to pursue my last year of high school and begin the process of political asylum due to generalized and in specific threats against my life. I interviewed for asylum, ironically on June 14, 2007, which is the very day that Hamas violently and finally took over the entirety of of the Gaza Strip.
- [11:07]
Mike Pesca
If you went back to Gaza, let's not say now that's somewhat ridiculous, but. And we could get into what a piece or a post war period might look like. Would you, and you've been detained and denied admission into Israel, but would you have significant fears for your life because you're here advocating for a two state solution?
- [11:26]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
I would have concerns less so because of my advocacy for the two state solution and more because I have kind of been extraordinarily and ruthlessly against the armed resistance narrative and Hamas. And October 7th, as something that has been entirely unhelpful to the just and urgent aspirations of the Palestinian people. I have been what some would label a contrarian when it comes to the pro Palestine narrative. And I've actually been very critical of a lot of both Gaza based actions by Hamas and others, as well as diaspora based forms of activism and advocacy. So my concerns would be that there I have called Hamas a legitimate terrorist organization, not organic and a representation of organic resistance to occupation.
- [12:24]
Mike Pesca
The word legitimate there in that phrase means bonafide.
- [12:28]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Bonaf. Precisely. And that the word Hamas. And I remember this very vividly. I remember the linguistic manipulation of the language, the word muqam, the word resistance, and how Hamas never referred to themselves as Hamas, but they usurped the word resistance, which to the Palestinian people meant it was a spectrum, it was a rainbow, it meant a lot of different things. It meant persevering on what remains of our land. It meant maintaining our olive trees. My, my, my grandmother, my grandparents who were, you know, expelled in 1948, they had these, these trees, these fig trees, these guava trees, these olive trees that were literally over six, like, like 50 years old and 60 years old in the Gaza Strip. And this war, this, since October 7th, this, this disaster has uprooted all of that qualitatively and numer and quantitatively. What has befallen the Palestinian people since October 7th is actually a magnet, an order of magnitude worse than what happened in 1948. So when you are the weaker party in a conflict in a situation like what we have in, in, in, in Israel and Palestine, and certainly like what we have in Gaza, the onus is on you to be careful and effective because you know that you have the most far right government in Israel's history that is eager to basically use any miss of your mistakes to, to, to, to undermine your national project. So that's where I hold Hamas ultimately responsible for the death and destruction that has befallen my family and my people.
- [14:22]
Mike Pesca
And on the idea of words and the usurpation of the resistance movement. Maybe people don't know this. Hamas is an acronym like NATO is an acronym and the M is. What is it? You say it mukama and that means resistance. So they became resistance. It was good branding. They are excellent at communicating and they're pretty ruthless too. And when you control all means of communication, maybe it's easier to get your message across. So that is a very interesting point. And just to bring it up to more recent events and tragedies, you've had over 30 members of your family, including very close uncle, killed in this war.
- [14:59]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Yes, my 12 year old niece Farah, who is survived by her twin sister Mara, who didn't know for three days that her sister had lost her life. My uncle Riyadh, my dad's youngest brother, whom I grew up with and who was a, who worked in Israel, who spoke perfect Hebrew. We lived in a family building made up of four floors that had over 35 people at its peak living in it. On my mom's side of the family we lost in that, that, the building that, that was struck on April on. Sorry on December 14, 2023, we lost all of my aunts and uncles on my mom's side and Zainab, Uncle Abdullah and Hind, Uncle Hassan, my cousins Yahya, my cousin Zosama and, and, and, and over 14 children who were under the age of nine, babies three and four months old, shredded to bits and pieces. Folks who were over in their 60s and 70s and, and, and that unfortunately, you know, they like thousands, tens of thousands of Palestinians are paying the ultimate price price for a sin that they did not commit and a war that they did not start and are helpless and powerless to stop.
- [16:19]
Mike Pesca
How do you apportion blame for those deaths?
- [16:22]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Well, at the end of the day, the Israeli military dropped those bombs, plain and simple. However, what I have regular so, so that like those were Israeli bombs dropped by Israeli airplanes. And I have said as much publicly and I have said that I like repeatedly have asked the IDF and the second case in particular in which 29 folks were killed. These cases received high profile attention and we reach out to the IDF and with coordinates, with times, with locations and never really got any answers. However, I absolutely am of the belief that had Hamas simply kept its soldiers at home on October 7, my family, like tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians would still be alive. Two million Palestinians in Gaza would still be in their home. Hamas served our people on a silver platter to the most far right government in Israel's history. And now Hamas is acting as if it has no ability, no influence, no capability to stop the war. And so in effect, I have no control over the Israeli government and their actions and what they do. But what I do have control over is to speak out against the very party that claims to represent the Palestinian people, to hold their interests at heart, to have governed them with an iron fist for almost two decades. The very party that has tortured Gazans over the years, including right now, is executing anybody who protested against it or speaks out against its rule. And so that to me is part of why I can't speak to the Israeli government without blaming the very terror, ISIS like organization that Islamized Palestinian society, that usurped our ability to have democratic governance, that ruined the very worthwhile and urgent and just aspirations of the Palestinian people for freedom, dignity, independence, self determination, statehood, liberation, and destroyed that. And now our people are vulnerable to displacement, to forced displacement under the guise of voluntary migration. And so that's why I'm very vehemently against the Islamist terror group.
- [18:56]
Mike Pesca
Do you think serving up your family on a silver platter was an act of horribly callous indifference or do you think it's more of a tactical act that fits in with Hamas's specific aims?
- [19:09]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Well, I think the two things can be true at once. On the one hand, I mean I genuinely believe that Hamas are fools and are not very well known for strategic foresight and, and, and, and, and I mean some people really like to assign brilliance to Hamas and they've been, I think they've stumbled into success on October 7th with a very negligent, with a very under prepared, with a, like, I mean, with under prepared Israeli military high command, a busy Israel that had internal dissent around Netanyahu and the judicial overhaul and the protests and the moving of a lot of divisions out of Gaza into the West Bank. I genuinely believe that Hamas stumbled into this success due to negligence and a failure of imagination. However, I also think that Hamas very deliberately, as Sinwar has stated during the war and multiple verified intercepts, conflict confirmed, these are consistent statements that tell you this is part of the literature, part of the group's ethos, part of the group's vision is they, they look at the death of my family and all the children and all the tens of thousands of Gazans as quote, necessary sacrifices that are going to gin up, you know, all this empathy and sympathy for the Palestinian cause. They genuinely thought that college protesters, massive demonstrations in Western capitals, that the outrage over the death and destruction in the Gaza Strip is somehow going to single handedly Stop the war and save their rule. And when I.
- [21:01]
Mike Pesca
But they also thought that Hezbollah and other like minded militias would join in with their cause right afterwards. And that didn't happen. They thought a lot.
- [21:08]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Precisely. Precisely. But, but, but I can't. The unfortunate sad reality is when I share that, when I speak about that so many people attack me and vilify me and say, you're just repeating Israeli propaganda. I mean, but it is absolutely the fact that Hamas relies on the maiming and killing of Palestinians to undermine and delegitimize the Israeli war effort. And like, like the, the, the, the, as evidenced by those statements and as evidenced by the fact that the group could care, like they're hiding among the civilians, they're hiding in their tunnels. They have left our people defenseless. They have had.
- [21:58]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, I don't think they've invited many civilians in the tunnels, which is what they spent the vast majority of funds on.
- [22:04]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Precisely. And so, so to me, this is, what's so heartbreaking is that there has been a failure to both hold space for multiple things at once. Yes. Speak out against the atrocities and the potential. And the, I think the real war crimes that are taking place in Gaza at the hands of the IDF and some of the, you know, the clear and indefensible act that are so visibly just inconsistent with the IDF's own stated policy of mitigating risk to uninvolved civilians and innocent civilians do that while also having immense contempt for the very terror, ISIS like organization that started this war.
- [22:57]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, I see what you're saying, which is, tell me if I'm getting it right, that everything you laid out, Haniya Sinwar, they knew this would happen. They wanted this to happen. But it is also the case that Israel can go too far. They probably knew that Israel would go, quote, unquote, too far. Do you think it's possible that Israel has committed war crimes in this war?
- [23:20]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Yes, absolutely. I think there were atrocities and war crimes committed for which I hope there is accountability in the same way that I hope there is absolutely accountability for Hamas and the terrorists in Gaza, not just for what they did on October 7th. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's, this is a missing piece that no one talks about and I insist on making this front and center. I want accountability for Hamas and PIJ and other terrorists for using civilian infrastructure to carry. And, and that is well documented and well understood whereby in effect, they are using civilians as human shields, stealing humanitarian aid. Again, well documented. Torturing and abusing Palestinians in Gaza suspected of being collaborators and conduct, carrying out summary executions, killing and torturing Palestinians who tried to protest in recent weeks. And those are people, some of them I know personally and I've been talking to personally on the ground and been supporting them who are saying we want an end to the war, we want an end to Hamas. And Hamas has been brutally repressing them and killing them left and right. I want Hamas to be held accountable for that as well. Crimes against Palestinians as well as crimes on October 7th.
- [24:47]
Mike Pesca
And we'll be back with more Ahmed Foud Al Khatib in a minute. Hablas Espanol Spoich.
- [25:00]
D
Com Du Noch if you've heard that sound from Babbel before, I bet you do. Babbel is the science backed language learning app that actually works with quick 10 minute lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts. Babbel gets you on your way to speaking a new language in just a few weeks with over 16 million subscriptions sold and a 20 day money back guarantee. Just start speaking another language with Babbel right now. Up to 55% off your Babbel subscription at babbel.com Spotify podcast spelled B A B B E L.com/Spotify podcast rules and restrictions may apply.
- [25:30]
Mike Pesca
We're back with Ahmed Fawd Al Khatib, who runs and founded Realign for Palestine. Is your primary audience the kind of person who might be a Palestinian or is aligned and very aggrieved by the Palestinian cause, but doesn't but uses rhetoric that is often incendiary or adheres to or espouses some sort of principles that will never get us closer to a piece? Is that your main audience? Who you're mainly your target? Obviously you're talking to anyone who will listen, but is that who you're really mostly trying to convince?
- [26:08]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
It's a really interesting question that is constantly evolving for a couple of reasons. My in an ideal world, I mean, and this is part of what I'm trying to do with Realign for Palestine and the team and the Palestinian voices.
- [26:26]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, that's the question. Who are you asking to Realign is essentially the question.
- [26:30]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
So in an ideal world, I want the Palestinian, American, Palestinian diaspora, Muslims and Arabs to be the target audience of this message. And the interesting dynamic at play here is that I have a lot of folks who are watching, who are listening. Many are often privately messaging me and reaching out and saying thank God you're saying what we know is true. But we struggle saying in public or we struggle articulating in public because of the difficult dynamics in our community, or if someone, you know, if I had a penny for every time someone said, thank God someone else is saying it, and that it doesn't have to be me. The challenge is, as is the case with a lot of communities around a lot of social and political issues, but especially so with the Israel and Palestine issue within the Palestinian, Arab and or Muslim communities, and those are three separate communities. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they're stacked, and sometimes they're entirely separate. I can have like 90% agreement with someone on a variety of issues, but this little margin of disagreement around Hamas, around Israel's right to exist and safe to live in safety and security, they may disagree with some of these points or the fact that I personally believe a lot of these encampments and a lot of these forms of unhelpful college activism have become really toxic to the discourse. And then all of that 90% agreement is thrown to the trash, and then I become a Zionist spy, Mossad, unfortunately, that is the state of play within the highly emotionally charged community in the diaspora. And so what then ends up happening is a lot of the folks that do engage with and listen to the message are often not of Palestinian or Arab or Muslim background, generally speaking, but especially there is an immense interest in what I have to say within different facets of the Jewish Israeli communities across the who, both of whom are not monolithic. They want to live in peace with Palestinians. They want to feel like it's possible to have a real shot at coexistence.
- [29:14]
Mike Pesca
I noticed a couple of times in the interview you likened Hamas to isis, and it's an apt comparison in that they are both particularly vicious in the world of the vicious, and they used brutality to achieve surprising battlefield gains. So it's a good analogy, but it's part of the reason that you're saying that, because A, even in America, you still do not get the cheering on of isis. ISIS has a toxic brand in the west in the way that Hamas apparently doesn't, but also that B, ISIS was opposed by the vast majority of the Muslim world and the Arab world. And if we, if we're successful in really tying those two as being very similar, maybe there's some hope for the Arab world to turn against the goals of Hamas and the tactics of Hamas.
- [30:07]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Well, that's a really. I love your. Your attention to detail. I will tell you that from the beginning, I have very, very specifically struggled with this issue. On the one hand, early on, the cerebral analytic part of my brain was worried that to claim Hamas is ISIS was going to have grave policy implications and a misunderstanding of how Hamas operates and how to misunderstand how Hamas has a nationalistic component to it. And, and, and that it's better to view them as an extremist Muslim Brotherhood organization. It's not, that is not better understood by connecting it to ISIS. On the other hand, from like 10 years ago, in speaking with conversation and speaking with folks in Gaza, people in Gaza, I mean, it has been well established. Hamas is very much so a mini isis. And in Arabic, we, the friends that I would speak to, they would use like a, almost like, like a little words that, like local words that describe little children. They're like, they're little. They're like little, tiny, little isis, like just little, little piggy kind of like little, little isis. And they draw from the same like core, core ideology of Sayyid Qutb and Hassan Al Banna that gave rise to the Muslim Brotherhood, that gave rise to Al Qaeda, that gave rise to the jihadi ideology that sought to transcend national borders. And as time went on, I mean, Hamas uses jihadi ideology. Hamas has always been jihadi. Hamas is the ruthlessness, has always been very, very aligned with isis. As time went on and I saw what has become a severe degradation in the pro Palestine discourse in which support for Hamas has become very mainstream, very, very mainstream. And I do not say this as a form of hyperbole, just that, just as I'm not suggesting that all pro Palestine folks are pro Hamas, that is not the case. But I challenge anybody who is anti Hamas but is pro Palestine to go in a big pro Palestine space and speak out against Hamas and tell me what happens to you. I'm right here. I will platform you. I will pay for your medical care. I will do anything you need. Because unfortunately, support for Hamas is now mainstream and I would argue the majority of a lot of the discourse, not insofar as to say I love Hamas per se, but to immediately deflect to, well, what about Israel? They have a right to resist international law, etc. So by now calling them Hamas, like I have been gradually linking them to isis, because they absolutely are from an ideology and a strategy point of view. And we're coming up on two years into this, I am hoping that this begins to create that point of reference and comparison. But, but, but, but, but, but I, at this point, I don't feel that there is the, the concern for the policy misjudgment because it's very clear that Hamas has got to go. Even though we know they're not going to fully disappear as an ideology, but that's irrelevant at this point. What Hamas has been doing in Gaza is very ISIS like and it's time we stop dancing around the topic. It's time we shake some sense into the pro Palestine community and say you are literally destroying the long lasting Palestinian cause by tying it to an ISIS, a mini Palestinian ISIS.
- [34:42]
Mike Pesca
My last question is, is it possible for a 10 year old Gazan to turn into Ahmed? Because I think about the elements of your biography and just talking to you and this isn't only the fault of Hamas or Israel. You left Gaza because There was a US sponsored program after 911 to try to make some inroads into the Muslim slash Arab world. You got asylum here in the United States. You were exposed to from your father and you know, I don't know all of your media consumption but different arguments, different ethical orientations. So that is my question, you know, is it hopeless for the next Ahmad to exist?
- [35:27]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Oh, completely the opposite brother, completely the opposite. And I am not like selling you a bridge or a bill of goods. There are thousands of Ahmad's out there that may not speak English as well, that they may not be as outspoken. And it is my goal with realigned for Palestine. It is my intention, my, my desire, my aspiration to equip folks with the, with the courage, the vision, the idea, the desire to be a part of something much better for their own future. Much different than the waste of lives and resources in a vicious cycle of Jihadi terrorism that leads nowhere, that gets us killed, gets more of our lands taken over or squandered without with nothing to show for it. On the other hand, I think unfortunately like there's been an overstating in the idea of like. Like people are a product of their environment. And if they've been living under Hamas for 18 years, yes, there will be some adjustment, especially after this war, some period of adjustment in which folks emerge out of that. However, public opinion, public attitude is elastic. It is not rigid. It changes. People go through transformation. People go through different stages in life that enable them to really have journeys, have moments of transformation. I've helped young men and men and women in Gaza learn English, get out of Gaza during the war, access scholarships, access just to just talk to them about what do you need to minimize the chances of you being denied a student visa in the United States or you being denied exit out of Gaza through the Ramon airport. So I am full of hope and optimism. I would not be throwing myself into the ring and putting myself out there if I didn't. If I felt that this was truly and entirely hopeless.
- [37:45]
Mike Pesca
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib runs the realign for Palestine Project with the Atlantic Council. Thank you so much.
- [37:54]
Ahmed Fouad Al Khatib
Thank you for having me.
- [38:01]
Mike Pesca
And that's it for the show. Cory War is the producer and Michelle's the cbso. And Leo and Astrid and Kathleen, the whole gang. We'll talk to you Monday.