C (11:45)

Mike, thanks for having me.

B (11:47)

So right now the polls I read have Mom Donnie as a favorite. I would say a strong favorite. How strong? What adjective would you put ahead of the word favorite so that we understand the position he's in to become the next mayor.

C (12:04)

Queer favored against the field to become the next mayor. Certain to become the next mayor if the field doesn't thin out? Near certain, yeah. But the odds would be very, very good. And if the field does thin out, then still a favorite against an Andrew Cuomo and Eric Adams who's nearly as unpopular as Donald Trump here, but with those two guys and this dude Jim Walden all clogged in the center and Curtis Slua, like you should, you should bet on it. He is the presumptive next mayor at this point. He's trying not to look ahead but sadly he's not getting really stress tested.

B (12:45)

Right.

C (12:46)

In this general in healthy ways. So this is all his rent stabilized apartment eight months after this fact came out in the only public that he.

B (12:57)

Lives in a rent stabilized apartment.

C (12:59)

And that was with the New York editorial board that I'm on that sort of tried to fill in where the New York Times stopped doing endorsements for shit.

B (13:06)

Right. About 15 people, people who've been involved in civic life and reporters and you and Ben Smith and who are some of the other people on the show on the board?

C (13:16)

My colleague Alyssa Katz at the, at the city, Josh Greenman at Vital City. Lots of overlapping names.

B (13:24)

It has the word city in it there on the editorial board. So you got all the candidates in, you talk to them except Cuomo Cuomo wouldn't do it. Right.

C (13:31)

And hasn't come on so far. During the general, they say, we'll talk.

B (13:35)

Yeah.

C (13:35)

But then we talk and it doesn't lead to an actual appearance.

B (13:38)

Yeah, it's a strategy. They string you along so you don't criticize them during the stringing. A long period, I would, I would guess, indeed.

C (13:45)

But strategy is an awful generous word for the governor, as the former governor still refers to himself while running for mayor, who just got, I think the technical term is his ass handed to him in the primary and says, I'm going to be more aggressive now. I was too shy and restrained was my problem.

B (14:03)

That's what Cuomo is known for. So let's go back. So Momdani has been shown to have a rent stabilized apartment. And this is not rent control. So the rent's not 600 bucks, but it's 2300, maybe, something like that. And this is something that a lot of people who are middle class, upper middle class have. But to what extent has he been made to answer for it?

C (14:22)

I guess the question, as I said, we asked him about his apartment is he's talked about having an apartment in a rent stabilized building. We said, is your unit rent stabilized? And he said, yeah. And then he explained why he ended up there. And he was hardly, you know, he was barely making money as an organizer at the time. And he's still there with his wife, but they're planning to move to a bigger space. And he knew this was a little bit of a weak spot.

B (14:46)

Yeah.

C (14:48)

And then Cuomo has revived that from our interview and tried to make this into a big issue, which feels to me a little desperate and flailing. But that's what happens when you're losing and you're not even losing head to head and you're three jumps away from a credible race where if you clear out Eric Adams and you can make Sliwa a non factor and Jim Walder doesn't play and you're running head to head. Bear in mind, this is the same Cuomo who was desperate to run head to head against Zoran Mandemi or whatever he calls him. Can never say it right. Notably in the primary, got the matchup he wanted and then got crushed. And his theory now is the general election's different. There's lots more independents there, different voters, and one on one, I could do this. And like, maybe, but a whole lot of your aura and appeal was that you were inevitable. The city was in giant trouble, we desperately needed you, and you're a winner and you know how to do things. And so getting crushed is not a very helpful starting point for that.

B (15:46)

Right. In the abstract, the theory of the case, okay, the Democratic primary is going to select for a left leaning candidate. If we have a more centrist candidate, if we can consolidate the centrist lane, it could have appeal to New York, which, and it's not that left leaning a city is certainly not as left leaning as the Democratic electorate is. The registered Democrats, they registered Democrats went.

C (16:09)

With Eric Adams four years ago, remember?

B (16:11)

Right, right. And Garcia came in second and she was pretty moderate too. But the problem is couple problems. First of all, there is the collective action problem, then there is the specific ego of those involved action. But there's also the fact that in the abstract, if the moderates or if the centrists could consolidate, they'd have a better chance. But as you point out, every single one of these centrists in head to head polls also don't beat Mamdani. So a lot of times, like when Trump was the nominee, they would always produce these polls saying, oh, this person does better than Trump head to head or that person does. But that is not the case with the field in the New York mayor's.

C (16:52)

Race this time, from the polling, anyone else would have to gain a lot of ground. And anyone else is Eric Adams or Andrew Cuomo. Yeah, these are very well known people who most New Yorkers have pretty fixed opinions about and a lot of New Yorkers don't like. So the idea that they're going to pick up a lot, that they're going to be able to define Mamdani at this point, as he's done an excellent job of defining himself, is an awful lot to expect. Which is why I say he should not think himself as for obvious reasons, but he's very close, if you're a New Yorker to being the presumptive mayor. And what that means is it's time to take some of, say, the New York Post criticisms, however cynically they may be offered real seriously.

B (17:32)

Right. What they do is they excavate old tweets of him his and they're concerning a lot of these tweets or they are very much out of step with the electorate. Now, you could say, for instance, queer liberation can't happen until the NYPD is disbanded. I don't think most New Yorkers, some New Yorkers believe that most New Yorkers might not even understand that. But he hasn't really had to answer for that in any real way.

C (17:58)

Right. And well, he has now because he said, I disavow my old tweets and it took him forever to do that. Yeah, and that's not the message I'm running this campaign on. So he's not saying I was wrong with all that, but he's saying that's not the point right now. It took him forever to get to that point, which is what I mean about him not getting stress tested. But his old tweets are less important to me. He's on a five day anti Trump tour, five boroughs all around the city.

B (18:22)

Now, how's the Staten island park going?

C (18:25)

It's happening earlier today, I believe. We'll see. Right. Like, the thing is, he's using this to be like, all my opponents have ties to Trump, which is real. Trump and Andrew Cuomo talk on the phone, even if Cuomo is now weirdly denying parts of that. Trump got Eric Adams off on his historic corruption criminal charges. And Trump has, you know, tried to get Curtis Lewa to take a position in Washington to get him off the Republican line. This is his hometown. He wants to be involved. But you're the presumptive mayor, dude. I don't actually care about how you're connecting him to your opponents or weird stuff you're doing, trying to use that to connect Cuomo to Epstein.

B (19:01)

Right, right.

C (19:02)

Which is Cuomo's taking some gross hits of you. So whatever. You're taking a gross hit back. Maybe that's just horrible. Whatever. What bothers me is I don't know what you're going to do when ice is marching through Sunset park like they march through MacArthur park as a show of force and a demonstration of their authority.

B (19:19)

Right.

C (19:19)

In Los Angeles, when federal officers, the mass ones were in our courthouses now are out in the streets. And you're not saying, and I understand right now, your job is to get elected and all that, but with the New York Post, which is Trump's House paper, which is in my view, like a dishonest place with some really intelligent people working there. Take everything with many grains of salt, but also don't dismiss it just because it's there. When they say, like, look, the case for your opponents is they, the city's going to get crushed if you're here, that this very assertive, aggressive, angry, revenge oriented federal government is going to make a model of New York and attacking you and you as us. We live here. Right. We're going to have masked agents in the city which. Which Honan and others are openly talking about and threatening. What. What's your answer to that how is your NYPD going to respond to those officers being out and about and on patrol? Are they still going to cooperate when there's nominally some criminal case? Like, like, how's this going to work? And idea. His opponents don't have great answers here either, but they're not about to be the next mayor. So I'd really like more and I'm disappointed, although understand his political position where we're not getting any of that. And it's scary.

B (20:28)

Yeah.

C (20:29)

Because running a good campaign. Right. Which is his main proof of concept that he could be a good mayor.

B (20:33)

That's his justification. Right. When you, when hit with the charge, what have you ever run beside an office of five people? His answer is always this campaign. And I understand why he'd reach for it. But campaigns are a lot different from gigantic organizations where not everyone is super motivated to work for free for you.

C (20:53)

Yeah. And he said in that same editorial board interview, as a mayor, first and foremost, he'd be a messenger. And he's a really talented messenger. He's running. He's ran in the primary, a great campaign. You know, it sort of cooled off a bit since the primary, but he has a big lead now and a reason to be a little less out there. I get him, respect all that. But I just think New Yorkers who are depressed by Adams and, or Cuomo and they're like, okay, maybe this will be a better alternative. These things could go really well. Maybe a touch of socialism would be great because, like, right now, the distribution of wealth and like the cost of living here are very unappealing. I get all that. This is a big gamble, and it's one happening with a president who is sending federal officers and talking about troops and doing that in Los Angeles too, into American cities to assert his dominance. And we are going to be the target. And I have no sense of how this guy is about to be the guy who's going to handle that. If this is going to actually help protect New Yorkers and our dignity and our own values or is going to be really damaging. And, you know, the race titans. I know I have some things to say. But right now on this, on education, by the way, Times had a pretty good rundown. Like, people have no idea where he's at. And that speaks to, like a weird and unhealthy city and obviously a weird and unhealthy center.

B (22:12)

Yes.

C (22:12)

It was very far from where, you know, the Democratic primary voters.

B (22:15)

Well, the, the weird and unhealthy city and center was foursquare behind Eric Adams. And there's plenty of information why that might be a poor choice. Of the three candidates who aren't Mamdani, who are polling in double digits. So Sliwa, Adams, and Cuomo, is there any chance that they do consolidate who moves first in terms of ego and self interest?

C (22:44)

I mean, these are three egotistical men who've been players in New York since the 80s in different fashions, none of whom want to give way to the others. Andrew Cuomo is way past Adams and Sleevel are about tied combined in the polls in Adams case, because he's been a proven failure as mayor. He's openly corrupt. He has significant issues that were really obvious to New Yorkers pretty early on. Like, 16 months in, I'm gonna boast. I was writing, look at his numbers. This guy is toast. And he just kept talking about what was wrong with those polls right last November. So. So before this. This primary, you know, I said, look at these numbers. This guy will not be mayor, you know, after this term. And I was trying to give a permission structure to other reporters here and straight reporters and editors. You know, it's an opinion column, so I can do that.

B (23:45)

Yeah.

C (23:45)

To be like, this is. This is just about none.

B (23:47)

Yeah.

C (23:48)

And Adam's.

B (23:49)

There's a benefit to covering him. Not with the question, will he be the mayor? Just once you assume. Not assume once you have the factual basis to say, all right, let's cover the world without him as mayor.

C (24:00)

You get better coverage and more clarity. And that didn't happen. And he swore up and down, vowed publicly time and time again he was going to run in the Democratic primary. Until the day of the Democratic primary. And he said, surprise, he couldn't win that. I'm running as an independent. You can't win there either. But he can make sure no one else can win.

B (24:17)

Yeah.

C (24:18)

You know, these guys are all guaranteeing that they're going to drag each other down, and then they're probably going to drown anyways. And they all want to be the one survivor. It feels like some very dark and grim game theory, and it's going to leave us with very young, very untested leadership that's offering some really challenging and ambitious things. And, of course, most of being successful in marriage, being lucky and the economy is doing okay under you. You know, you don't have crises past what you can handle. And, like, when Adams came in, I was like, man, I hope he gets lucky. I live here.

B (24:51)

Yeah.

C (24:51)

If it's Mamdani, I hope he gets lucky. But it's a lot to ask for. And it's a little dispiriting that we just seem to be drifting this way. And Bloomberg is a little complicated. And it's a quarter billion dollars between his three runs on the books probably more often. But since Bloomberg, when we've gone back to regular Democratic rule after like what turned out to be a 20 year interregnum.

B (25:14)

Yeah, right.

C (25:14)

Of non Democratic mayors, like it's always half a fluke. What happens late in a primary, like Anthony Weiner, like very strange things. Bill de Blasio's in fourth place six weeks before that election. He wins not even a quarter million votes in the prim primary, just enough to avoid a runoff and then says.

B (25:33)

Just enough to force a runoff.

C (25:36)

To make himself the Democratic nominee because he breaks 40% in a crowded field. This is before ranked choice. It's all too complicated. And that's sort of the point. And no one can understand this stuff. But Bill de Blasio gets a quarter million votes. He gets to be mayor for eight years, spend the better part of a trillion dollars in public resources, have all this power and juice. Eric Adams does a little better in a complicated ranked choice thing. And he says, I'm the Biden in New York now in the future, the Democratic Party and all this stuff. And Mamdani is going to do the same thing. And he's done a little better actually than either of them. But this is all sort of nonsense and pretty deeply unhealthy when that smaller share of the city is deciding its path while everyone else is just sort of passively there.

B (26:18)

Is that by design? Is that how the Democratic Party designs it when you have a primary in the only vote that matters is in the middle of summer? Yeah.

C (26:28)

Not some of it's by design. Some of it's happenstance and weird stuff. So there's ranked choice. There's moving the primary from September to June. There's this idea of wanting to control who turns out. So this is literally politicians choosing voters rather than the other way around. And it's we gotta fight fire with fire. It's happening in Texas, but Texas, it's good, wicked fire in that they are trying to get this done for the midterms. And these are weird high stakes midterms for a whole lot of reasons. And will we have future elections and Democrats probably have to overperform to maybe get veto power in the House and then find out how much that's worth in this new setup when you have more and more of a unitary executive. Hochul in New York, just because of our constitution, it would have to pass in two sessions of the legislature. It means. And then go to voters. The earliest this could actually happen with these new districts is 2028. Right. And it's presumably not going to be relevant in any of the same ways at that point. And the benefit for the political class here and the people have office want to hold it. All these drivers who want to get up on the greasy pole and, oh, now there's two more seats where I can win and stop just being a county player. And, you know, all that is painfully obvious.

B (27:42)

Yes.

C (27:42)

And even as Madani has hacked this system and like the corrupt, depressing, useless Democratic Party that doesn't bother knocking on doors or talking to voters or handling its business, Randy's like, hey, we get a few new people out, we can, we can hack this. We can win this citywide. And this was obvious. There was a socialist who almost won for Queen's da. Tiffany Caban is a council member now and then she lost by like 40 votes after a recount.

B (28:10)

Curtis Lewis, baby mama, do we say I don't.

C (28:16)

The idea that there's still a 0.5% possibility that new York is going to follow where Curtis Sliwa's thing leads us.

B (28:27)

It just goes to show how I'm not going to say incestuous, but just crazy and topsy turvy.

C (28:33)

Everything is incestuous is pretty good. David Patterson, who just endorsed Eric Adams, whose wife is Curtis Sliwa's ex, as is the Queens District attorney who started off as a personal aid to Peter Valone. Like, there's a lot of strange and overlapping stuff.

B (28:51)

And we'll be back in a minute with more of Harry Siegel about some of the other characters in the race. Let's map out this week's amazing destinations and travel tips.

C (29:07)

Honestly, Will, I didn't plan any trips, but I did switch to T Mobile with their new Family Freedom offer.

B (29:15)

That's not the itinerary we're following.

C (29:18)

Well, I'm departing from AT&T and embarking on a new journey with T Mobile. They paid off my family's four phones up to $3200 and gave us four new phones.

B (29:30)

On the house. Bon voyage.

A (29:33)

Introducing Family Freedom. Our lowest cost to switch our biggest family savings all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com familyfreedom. Up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card. Typically takes 15 days. Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement for example Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 82999 eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel contact T Mobile.

B (30:02)

We're back with Harry Siegel here of FAQ NYC and the City. And Harry, right before the break, you said that there is a lot to the success of a mayor that just depends on the flukiness of it all. But hasn't Eric Adams actually fluked his way into pretty good results? I mean, I'm just looking at the statistics. Murder is down. It's down everywhere, but it is down here. I looked at pedestrian deaths. It is at an all time low since they've been measured. Reading scores are actually up by 7 if you look at the empirical data. And of course we're a city that doesn't like Trump. The things we don't like are the things Trump is doing. And Eric Adams is aligned with Trump, all of that. But wouldn't he, if he were not mired in scandal or saddled by his personal baggage, be in a position to do maybe pretty well based on his actual measurable accomplishments during his tenure?

C (30:58)

A politician as talented as Eric Adams, who'd already assembled a winning coalition, who hadn't fucked around so much and let all of his crummy, corrupt precinct friends fuck around so much, would be very strong. Even though I would actually go through each of those success measures and offer some arguments and caveats that the reading scores, math is up a little too, I think four points. But it's a one year bump. It's not clear what that means.

B (31:26)

That's not how reading works. Right.

C (31:27)

And Adam's problem is he is the boy who cried wolf. But for success is he's been playing shifty shell games with the numbers since he got. So when things were not going as well and the success signs weren't as clear, he kept insisting everything was the best ever and the crime was up and Jobs was down. And that was true if he didn't bother looking too closely at which crimes, what he was talking about or which jobs. And then none of this looks so good. And he's been so dishonest and dissembling about this for so long that he's just lost public confidence. And now that he actually is starting to accumulate some real achievements to tout, arguably also including the City of Yes, rezoning, which is a big political achievement, although its translation into actual buildings and housings will be something that happens over decades, it's awfully late in the game. And even putting aside the Trump thing, which is huge, New Yorkers just tuned him out and stopped believing him. He swore he'd be entertaining as mayor no matter what, and he was. But he wasn't compelling or believable. And I think it made him extremely vulnerable even before the investigation.

B (32:36)

Yes.

C (32:36)

Than the criminal charges and Trump deal to let him off.

B (32:39)

I also think there's a difference between an entertainer and a spectacle, and he's become more of a spectacle.

C (32:45)

I very much agree the entertain.

B (32:48)

To be an entertainer, it has to be mostly conscious. And he has a lot of shtick. Why did we ever think that he was a good politician? Or does he. Is it the case that he does have a good smile and communication skills and knows how to get attention and that's all that was needed for him to get elected citywide?

C (33:08)

And a lot of money.

B (33:09)

Yeah, right.

C (33:09)

And the money came from a lot of corrupt people and has a lot to do with why he's been in all this hot water and all that, but.

B (33:15)

And I also think in 2021, I'm the ex cop who also sued the cops. I have a gun on me.

C (33:20)

Perfect biography. Yeah. That was on our podcast that he said that he said he was going to fire security detail. He was gonna wear his own piece.

B (33:28)

Yeah, I know. Christina Greer came on my podcast that he told us, and that was on your podcast that I'm wearing a gun right now. Did he raise up his trouser to show you the gun at that point?

C (33:38)

I believe so. I'm trying to remember the scene, but I think he pulled. He pulled it up and showed us, you know, at least the holster. It was like the sweaty cop energy was extremely high. But the. This guy is a really talented politics, just retail politician. He's energetic. He knows how to get attention. Yeah. He knows how to. How to talk, whether he's saying anything or not. And he sort of knows how to assemble a coalition. Obviously. He knew how to bring in money and like, that was enough. He had the right biography and that was huge, I think, in that cycle.

B (34:10)

So I want to ask you about Mamdani and what the Democratic Party is doing, which is. Well, it occurred in an off cycle and he is exciting. But I do think they've been over interpreting his power and appeal on a national level because there's so much so sui generis to New York and very particular to his run. But what do you think?

C (34:32)

I think some of that is inevitable. And it's a lot like sports writing, you know, like, you're writing your lead in the seventh inning and then sort of, you know, things go wrong in the 9th and you're. You're panic readjusting. This is a signal election this year. There's us statewide, there's New Jersey and Virginia, whatever.

B (34:48)

Yeah, respectfully, not so much respectfully.

C (34:52)

We are the market race.

B (34:53)

Yeah.

C (34:55)

This is a really big shift. It's the year after Trump reclaims the presidency. And instead of him feeling like the interregnum, really, the Obama and Biden years feel more and more like that the Democrats are panicked. They don't know what they're doing. They're impossibly like the Wall Street Journal. Polling is brutal. Nobody likes, trusts, or respects this party. They don't deliver on the stuff they talk about. And all sorts of frustrated people are pivoting in different directions. A big thing Mamdani pushed from very early on, borrowing as he has it, several points from reporting at the city was he said, I went and talked to the Trump voters and figured out what they wanted and how that applied. And that was smart. And now he sort of really stretched that. He had a map, you know, social media team did. That's like, look at all the red Trump places. I turned blue. And it's like, you're actually comparing 2024 general election results with 2025 primary results. This doesn't actually make any sense, but, like, the over interpretation there literally could massive.

B (35:56)

It might be the case that not one Trump voter voted for Mamdani. I mean, that's not true, but it could be the case. And those charts could look the same mathematically.

C (36:05)

Yes, that's definitely not true. And there were interesting crossover people, and some of it is Israel and Palestine, and there's a bunch of interesting stuff around that. But what I'm saying is Democrats are frantic for talking points in a formula.

B (36:17)

Right.

C (36:18)

Mary Gay's got a good piece about all the Obama people in the New York Times, about all the Obama people who are reaching.

B (36:24)

Yeah, well, they're desperate for a talking point. Plus, this guy is exciting. And for Democrats, the Democratic base, I do think he resonates. And so they assume he's going to resonate outside the base, which I don't see evidence of that. But, you know, get elected first. We'll see. Maybe I'll have a record of accomplishment.

C (36:41)

Hochul, the Governor Schumer, the. The senior senator, Gillibrand, the junior senator, who had what seemed to be like a drunk bizarro appearance on Brian Lair show. Yeah, like, just talking, like, I don't know anything. But like, I heard the guy loves jihad and that doesn't seem okay. Bonkers a lot about Mondani that upsets me. But like, what she said was so I don't know anything. It probably out of my mind.

B (37:03)

Gillibrand's like, it's not my job to endorse, but he's her. Have you ever not endorsed the mayoral Democratic primary winner? And Gillibrand's like, I don't know. I'd have to look into that.

C (37:13)

Maybe you should.

B (37:14)

So inspired by your idea that if you see how things are going to happen, it offers clarity to report on them and analyze them, acknowledging that they will happen. So let us just take as a stipulation Mamdani becomes mayor. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions about what that might mean. How plausible is it that very rich New Yorkers leave the city quickly?

C (37:40)

Not very plausible longer term, I have no idea. But the people talking the loudest about this are the same ones doing 26,000 word tweets, burning tens of millions of dollars like poorly timed and spent and trying to stop him having not thought about or organized or done any of this stuff for years. It's like a lot of noise. And you see the same. The Free Press piece when the Journal touched on this.

B (38:01)

Yeah.

C (38:02)

The same voices and people again and again and again. It seems extremely unserious to me as a starting point. That said, lots of rich people have left. We're losing population and wealthy population to places like Florida is like a generational thing.

B (38:18)

Or just if our taxes are so high, to have a very nice house in Connecticut or New Jersey, which used to be another high tax place. So the advantage wouldn't be that big. Now if the taxes get as high as Mom Donnie's entire program would demand, that might be a logical choice, I think. It's really.

C (38:41)

It's just an election, he said and promised a bunch of stuff and sort of penciled out bills for that. We know that there's less money coming from Washington for New York State and through New York State and directly to New York City and that they're going to be harder choices coming. His basic thing is I want to make this place feel more affordable and breathable. And the thing is, you start penciling out the numbers and what he's doing and they are distressing and that could have an impact on people. But he doesn't have to actually do any of that. He just has to win and then work it out from there. And fundamentally, this city has Become. And I know New York has been talking about this since before I was born, right. And that was in the, in the 70s and there was a decline cycle and other things. But like it's really unaffordable. It's hard to pay rent, it's hard to meet to get a mortgage. To put that down. If you don't have some sort of like family wealth or anything like that. The distribution is not super healthy. There's obviously weird AI stuff happening with this. I'm so old. I remember Andrew Yang being the front runner for mayor before Eric Adams wins, you know, in his whole UBI thing and being able to be a frontrunner because he hijacked the Democratic primaries in a way Al Sharpton once did. Advised by Roger Stone. Right. Andrew Yang does this because do these real questions about like human productivity and worth, they're very intense in a place like New York where middle class values are always being pinched and impinged. I don't like Mamdani's solutions, but his just pointing very queenly to this is this is unaffordable. It's incredibly pressured. It's deeply stressed. Not everything has to be that way is really a healthy starting point. And I think the people who have been the loudest with we're out if this happens and our businesses are moving are bluffing. I truly do. To start with, at least I would.

B (40:24)

Say great politicians know how to describe the problem. That's the main thing they do. Great leaders know how to solve the problem. But those are two different things.

C (40:35)

I completely agree. And we're going to find out. I think.

B (40:40)

Yeah. Do you believe in food deserts? Are there such things as food deserts? Because this is getting to the city run grocery idea.

C (40:52)

Short answer is no. This is absurd at this point. It's a myth and it goes into some of the worst ways in which the left identifies fake problems to demand elaborate solutions. That said, right. I was just on Flatbush Ave. By the junction right where Brooklyn College is and just south of there, walking around, it's like it's a paint the shop and it's a little barren and there are issues there. I think a lot of those.

B (41:26)

It's funny you mentioned this because I looked up the map and there is one or two places that might plausibly be considered a food desert. And they changed the definition so cynically. And now the definition is something like where the ratio of bodegas to grocery stores is more than five to one. So if you close three bodegas we'd all be better Off. Anyway, I was looking at the map and Brighton beach and Seagate maybe qualify as a food desert. Sorry. For non New Yorkers. These are the far flung places. And then the junction at Brooklyn College, I'm like, there is. This is one of the few populated places that you can stand. And for three blocks there won't be a decent head of lettuce. But one of the few.

C (42:05)

It's very true. And what should happen has happened all around the city, which I've loved and doesn't get measured in these stats, but weirdly hasn't happened there yet, is you have newsstand guys who sell extremely cheap, really good produce.

B (42:16)

Yeah.

C (42:16)

That you got to use in the next couple of days. Right. With trucks behind them. So they actually have like a full truck with refrigeration there. And then they're just selling. And you see everyone who cooks out shopping and dealing with this. And one of the issues with the food desert narrative that I've heard from several people in different boroughs and with different experiences is having areas where. And sometimes this has to do with the quality of apartments with other issues. But there's less of a habit of cooking and consequently less of a market when you start for bringing fresh food in. And it gets hard to sort of break through those cycles. And there are ways to do that. I think sometimes it starts with trucks just having better produce and like making it easier for people who want to have different habits to build. But I think that this has been something of a statistical myth. And again, Mamdani's talked a lot about these city grocery stores. And it's because he's a great messenger. He wanted to say free things and simple problems he's solving. And he has so many ways to pivot now and to offer sort of smart solutions to actual problems. Having successfully offered smart solutions to the political problems that won him votes in a base of support, I'm hopeful that he's going to do that. But we're going to see if he straight up says we need the city providing food. I was just reading about the bread lines and God, I don't even remember which country now that's had guaranteed bread prices for 30 years. And those are breaking down. And they get most of the bread from Argentina. If we're really going full socialist there, we're going to have very serious problems. And because Madani's whole sales pitch is, hey, we kept the socialist thing going for long enough that people have forgotten all of the horrors the communism and socialism applied has caused. And these centrists have sucked for so long. And these Republicans are so scary and dreadful. Like, hey, why not? Yeah, he's a smart guy. So you think you want to fail?

B (44:16)

Proposing city run grocery in each borough is smart politics because it strikes people as, oh yeah, who wouldn't like that? Or do you think it's more that that's what a socialist would propose?

C (44:29)

So no, I think pivoting me away from it now as quickly as he can would actually be the smart politics.

B (44:34)

But if he doesn't implement it isn't. It's a very prominent campaign promise. Doesn't he have to do it? No.

C (44:41)

This is like when the Post was crusading about the ad with the so and so. The very conventionally attractive woman has great jeans.

B (44:48)

Yeah, yeah, right.

C (44:49)

And they were pretending like, like, like anyone on the left was upset. And there were like four random tweets and they're like, you see? No, the people talking about the grocery thing as this was so fundamental and this is proof of this whole concept is doomed. I think it was actually not great politics to have offered in the first place. I think it would be terrible policy to implement.

B (45:10)

It would. And plus the city has some decent programs to fund grocery stores, a ton of them.

C (45:15)

This reminds me of the people I walked by, a woman at fifth Avenue and ninth street in Park Slope, which is a reasonably affluent neighborhood. Right. And this getting at the South Slope, which is less ethanol stuff, but this middle aged woman who's just sort of sitting on the sidewalk like a larger woman and asking for money and I need food. And the city really does a lot to feed people. And someone who's out there in that circumstance has other problems and issues that are what needs addressing. And there's something obviously ridiculous and off about that. But also lots of decent people in this reasonably affluent neighbor, like, well, this person needs something and they're here and what can I do? And kids, all this stuff like the groceries are so obviously an answer to a fictitious problem when there's a ton of real ones to address. But his only job right now is to win an election, to have identified things. And when this started, Brad Lander was first guy who went to New York editorial board. He comes in, first thing he says is we were wrong about crime disorders of problems. He's reading polls. Right?

B (46:17)

Right.

C (46:18)

And everyone was going in that direction. And Mamdani, you know, to his tremendous credit, was like, no, the problem is affordability. And that's it. And that's all he's really wanted to talk about.

B (46:31)

Harry Siegel is an editor at the city and his podcast. His Essential Must Listen podcast is FAQ nyc. Harry, thank you so much.

C (46:41)

Mike, thanks again for having me. I appreciate it.

B (46:49)

That's it for today's show. Cory Wara produces the gist and Ashley Khan is our production coordinator. Astra Green does the socials. Leo Baums the intern. We've got Philip Swissgood and Kathleen Sykes on the mandolin. Michelle Pascal lays out the red carpet for everyone. Improve G Peru. Do Peru. And thanks for listening. Or maybe and thanks for listening. Yeah, that's the order.

A (47:22)

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