The Gist – Episode: "Revolutionary Fog and Folly" Release Date: June 3, 2025

Overview

In this episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Rick Atkinson. The discussion centers around Atkinson's latest work, "The Fate of the Day: The War for America, Fort Ticonderoga to Charleston, 1777-1780", the second installment in his Revolutionary War trilogy. Together, they explore the complexities of the American Revolutionary War, British strategic missteps, and the intricate personalities that shaped the conflict.

Interview with Rick Atkinson

Timestamp: [07:59] – [42:24]

1. Introduction to Atkinson’s New Book

Mike Pesca:
"Rick Atkinson is one of our great writers of historical nonfiction. He's the winner of the Pulitzer Prize and he's now in the second of a Trilogy about the Revolutionary War..."
[07:59]

Rick Atkinson:
"Thanks for having me on, Mike."
[07:59]

2. Choice of Focus: Why France?

Mike Pesca:
"You could have started anywhere. You chose to start in France. Why France?"
[08:01]

Rick Atkinson:
"Without French help... the American cause is pretty dim. And so I think it's important to understand where the French are at this point..."
[08:17]

Notable Quote:
"Versailles is fun to write about. I think it's fun to read about. It's extraordinary."
[08:32]

3. Religion and the War

Mike Pesca:
"You mentioned France is a Roman Catholic country. How much was this a war of religion or religion by proxy?"
[09:50]

Rick Atkinson:
"Not much religion complicates things in the 18th century, is it? Always does... it's not a religious war otherwise."
[10:11]

4. British Domestic Unrest: The Gordon Riots

Mike Pesca:
"Antipathy towards Catholics was also quite prevalent in England. How much did anti-war sentiment inform those riots?"
[11:28]

Rick Atkinson:
"The Gordon Riots... There's a great resistance to expanding Catholic rights. It's the worst civic disturbance in British history..."
[12:42]

5. British Strategic Misconceptions

Mike Pesca:
"What were the British thinking, and what did the Americans do to thwart that?"
[14:44]

Rick Atkinson:
"The British underestimate the moxie of the Americans. They're keen to have a short war... They have some strategic misconceptions."
[15:22]

Notable Quote:
"Adam Smith says, no, you got it all wrong. You do not need to have this mercantile arrangement..."
[16:57]

6. King George III’s Leadership

Mike Pesca:
"In 1775, was King George a poor regent?"
[18:11]

Rick Atkinson:
"George III is a child of the Enlightenment... he's a stubborn and ornery guy who's got these strategic misconceptions."
[18:20]

Notable Quote:
"He plays the harpsichord, he's a supporter of the sciences... He's a loving father to his 15 children."
[19:08]

7. Impact of Weather and Contingency in Warfare

Mike Pesca:
"How important was fog and wind in battles like the Battle of Brooklyn?"
[20:41]

Rick Atkinson:
"Weather is always critical in combat. In the 18th century, wind propels ships. Contingency plays an extraordinary role in history."
[21:13]

Notable Quote:
"Washington loses the Battle of Long Island... he escapes across the East River because of this providential fog."
[21:30]

8. Assessment of British Military Leadership

Mike Pesca:
"What's your assessment of the British Admiralty and generals?"
[23:03]

Rick Atkinson:
"George III is not well served by his generals... Lord Sandwich is pretty capable... Richard Howe is one of the finest fighting sea dogs in British naval history."
[23:17]

Notable Quote:
"The British high command is constantly feuding with each other... it's a disservice to the British cause."
[24:10]

9. American Military Leadership and Washington’s Strategy

Mike Pesca:
"Can you talk about some American generals who have gained your respect?"
[25:12]

Rick Atkinson:
"Washington has a fine eye for subordinate talent. Guys like Henry Knox and Nathaniel Greene are indispensable."
[25:35]

Notable Quote:
"Nathaniel Greene... has extraordinary organizational prowess. He is capable of taking responsibility."
[26:00]

10. Archival Research and Surprises

Mike Pesca:
"How much are you surprised by new information as you embark on these books?"
[31:45]

Rick Atkinson:
"The papers of George III are kept in Windsor... trying to understand what he thinks he's doing is fascinating."
[33:03]

Notable Quote:
"Henry Clinton's handwriting is just appalling... it's arduous to work through."
[34:14]

11. Cultural Depictions of the American Revolution

Mike Pesca:
"Why hasn’t the American Revolution yielded as many great movies as the Civil War?"
[36:59]

Rick Atkinson:
"The Civil War has an internecine quality... the Revolution is remote, and the founders have been mythified."
[37:14]

Notable Quote:
"There is a great movie coming by Ken Burns. It's a remarkable thing."
[37:14]

12. Writing the Middle of a Trilogy

Mike Pesca:
"Middle parts of trilogies are notoriously difficult. How did you strategize that?"
[39:31]

Rick Atkinson:
"I begin the second book with a new beginning in France and end it with Charleston being besieged... hoping the reader sticks with me."
[40:02]

Notable Quote:
"We start in France and end with Charleston, looking really bad for the home team... knowing it's going to end."
[40:15]

Conclusion

Mike Pesca and Rick Atkinson delve into the intricate details of the American Revolutionary War, shedding light on British strategic errors, the pivotal role of allies like France, and the leadership qualities that propelled the American cause. Atkinson's meticulous research and nuanced perspectives offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of this transformative period in history.

Notable Quotes Summary

1. "Versailles is fun to write about. I think it's fun to read about. It's extraordinary." – Rick Atkinson ([08:32])

2. "Adam Smith says, no, you got it all wrong. You do not need to have this mercantile arrangement..." – Rick Atkinson ([16:57])

3. "He plays the harpsichord, he's a supporter of the sciences... He's a loving father to his 15 children." – Rick Atkinson ([19:08])

4. "Weather is always critical in combat. In the 18th century, wind propels ships. Contingency plays an extraordinary role in history." – Rick Atkinson ([21:13])

5. "Washington loses the Battle of Long Island... he escapes across the East River because of this providential fog." – Rick Atkinson ([21:30])

6. "There is a great movie coming by Ken Burns. It's a remarkable thing." – Rick Atkinson ([37:14])

For those interested in the complexities of the American Revolutionary War and the detailed narratives that shape our understanding of it, this episode of The Gist offers a compelling and informative listen.