Ro Khanna & Mike Pesca: The Middle

Summary

The Gist – “Ro Khanna & Mike Pesca: The Middle”

Date: June 27, 2026
Host: Mike Pesca (from Peach Fish Productions)
Guest: Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA), Jeremy Hobson (host of “The Middle”), Tolliver (co-host), Callers from across the US
Main Theme: America at 250: What Would You Change?

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Episode Overview

This special episode of The Gist presents the full recording of “The Middle,” a national call-in show hosted by Jeremy Hobson. Marking the 250th anniversary of the United States, the discussion centers on one expansive question: “If you could change one thing about America, what would it be?” Host Mike Pesca and guest Congressman Ro Khanna join to share their perspectives, respond to listeners, and probe the state of American politics, policy, and culture.

The conversation covers institutional reforms—such as overturning Citizens United, expanding healthcare, and abolishing the Electoral College—but also tackles less tangible issues like polarization, economic perception vs. reality, fostering unity, and the cultural role of religion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kicking Off: The Big Question

[10:37]

• Jeremy Hobson frames the theme: as America turns 250, what big change should we make for the next 250 years?
• Toliver calls for “fast, free trains everywhere”—an example of bold, systemic transformation.
• Hobson reminds us that America’s biggest changes (ending slavery, New Deal, technological adoption) came both from policy and cultural shifts.

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2. Ro Khanna’s Change: Money in Politics

[13:42 | 13:56]

• Khanna: “We need to have a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United... a group, America Promise, already has 25 states ready to hold a constitutional convention...”
• He explains the historical use of state-driven constitutional amendments (e.g., direct election of senators) and argues bipartisan support on money in politics is feasible.
• On the difficulty of passing amendments: “The problem has been big money and special interests really can have enough of an impact to make that kind of majority very difficult to obtain.” ([14:58])

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3. Pesca’s Perspective: Fixing Representation and Polarization

[15:48 | 19:03]

• Pesca distinguishes between “snap your finger” changes and realistic tweaks.
• Suggests uncapping the House as a structural fix: “This would have a couple of things that would pretty much take away all the problems with the Electoral College... it would just mean that our representatives are closer to the people...”
• Skeptical of campaign finance reform as a panacea: “Money in politics... correlates to some of the problems we have... I think not as severely as most people think.”
• On polarization: “Very hard... all the incentives do rise to catastrophization... negative polarization, hating the Democrats more than wanting a solution.” ([19:03])
• Advocates for making Americans “increase their appreciation for how good things actually are,” referencing Annie Lowery’s “vibes” and the country’s objective advances.

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4. Unity and Changing American Perceptions

[17:39 | 19:03 | 21:14]

• Khanna says unity is possible when focusing on issues with widespread agreement (e.g., transparency, military restraint, economic security for the non-college educated).
• He links economic anxiety to globalization, deindustrialization, and distrust of elites, noting that AI exacerbates these divides.
• “...the problem is that most Americans don’t believe that their life is going to be as good as their parents... They don’t believe that they can have a good-paying, secure job.” ([21:14])

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5. Callers’ & Listeners’ Direct Suggestions

[26:20–62:37] A vibrant array of suggestions arrives via calls and online comments, reflecting systemic, social, and personal hopes for change—Khanna and Pesca respond with both policy analysis and broader context.

Notable Caller Comments & Reactions

• Abolish the Electoral College & Supreme Court Term Limits

  • Caller Claire: “Eliminate that darned Electoral College and have term limits for Supreme Court justices.” ([26:27])
  • Khanna: “Yes on both... I think we should abolish the Electoral College. The way to do it... is to get this 270 compact...” ([27:01])

• Stricter Laws on Drunk Driving

  • Sarah (10 years old): “I would change, more better laws about drunk drivers.” ([27:49])
  • Pesca: “We’ve changed norms... traffic, alcohol related fatalities [have declined], we’re kind of living in the era of miracles...” ([28:34])

• Healthcare Reform / Single Payer System

  • Rebecca: Highlights high costs for necessary medication (as a Type 1 diabetic), the plight of those in the “middle,” and monopolistic pricing.
  • Khanna: Advocates expanding Medicare and laying groundwork for Medicare-for-All, emphasizing the system’s popularity and affordability of incremental steps. ([32:49])
  • Pesca: Notes that priorities and the emergence of new wedge issues (like Israel/Gaza) often shape which left-wing causes dominate primaries.
    • Khanna: “Gaza and Israel... have become a proxy for: Are you a truth teller in American politics now?” ([35:10])

• Change Voting Systems, Reduce ‘First Past the Post’ Problems

  • Listener Taylor: Critiques America’s “first-past-the-post” system ([37:58])

• Enable Multi-Party Democracy

  • Jeff (Kansas): “We need to figure out a way to make practical a multiparty system...” ([38:40])
  • Khanna: Welcomes new parties, criticizes the two-party system but notes high practical barriers. “Our politics are too stale.” ([39:22])
  • Pesca: Argues that proportional systems bring their own problems: “France... UK... India... would not swap our current political state with any of them...” ([40:35])

• Invest in Public Goods and Reframe ‘Government Spending’

  • Jeff (Raleigh, NC): Calls to shift public mindset from “cost” to “investment” in government programs like education and health ([41:48])

• Abolishing/Modifying the Senate or Filibuster

  • Kathleen (CO): Calls for unicameral legislature, complains about Senate power imbalance ([47:08])
  • Khanna: Ending the filibuster is realistic and achievable improvement ([48:16])

• More Religion or ‘Christ-Like’ Values in Government

  • Chris (FL): Expresses desire for more “Christ-like” officials, critiques LGBTQ rights, worries about cultural decline ([49:56])
  • Pesca: Stresses “America was founded on an idea, not a religion”—debunks idea that more explicit Christianity would foster unity ([52:09])

• Term Limits & Publicly Funded Elections

  • Sean (Denver): Proposes term limits for Congress and public financing for elections ([53:11])
  • Khanna: Supports term limits (12 years in House/Senate, also for Justices), favors public election funding and stricter campaign finance ([53:31])

• Taxing Billionaires/Trillionaires

  • Discussion of whether to curtail vast wealth or simply tax it more fairly; criticism of tax loopholes and capital gains preference.
  • Khanna: “The system has been rigged... the wealth [Elon Musk] has accumulated is exaggerated by a biased tax code...” ([55:29])

• Decriminalize/Declassify Drugs & Reform Prisons

  • Aaron (Chicago): “All drugs should be decriminalized... US spends $75 billion a year prosecuting drug users.”
  • Pesca: Calls for shorter prison terms (as in Norway), opposes abolition of jails but wants drastic scaling back given aging-out and costs. ([57:41])
  • Khanna: Backs declassifying marijuana specifically, calls for reforming mandatory minimums and addressing racial disparities. ([58:51])

• End Gerrymandering

  • Dave (Mishawaka, IN): Calls for national ban, puzzled by off-cycle redistricting. ([59:33])
  • Khanna: “We would have ended gerrymandering nationally... we should do that... The Democrats, when we next have power, should, should do that.” ([60:49])

• Reduce Presidential Powers

  • Khanna: Calls for true constitutional limits: requiring Congress’ authorization for war, ending executives disregarding appropriations, enforcing emoluments prohibitions. ([61:26])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Khanna on the American Experiment:
  “We’re trying to do something historically unprecedented, to be a cohesive multi racial, multi religious, multi ethnic democracy. No nation in the world has done that. And we should work towards achieving that purpose, not shirking from it.” ([45:01])

• Pesca on Polarization and Catastrophism:
  “All the incentives do rise to catastrophization... I just want to point out... we don’t have an issue that is a thousandth as important as slavery. I don’t think [national divorce] exists.” (*[45:50] *)

• Caller Sarah (age 10) on Civic Engagement:
  “I would change, more better laws about drunk drivers.” ([27:49])

  • Khanna responds: “I just want to give her a shout out for being so civic minded.” ([28:16])

• Pesca on Societal Progress:
  “We’re kind of living in the era of miracles. Let us not take it easy... if I could change anything, I wish people would understand and appreciate that more.” ([28:34])

• Khanna on Billionaires:
  “Certainly, trillionaires shouldn’t threaten to jail people. But... the [tax] system has been rigged... I would fix that tax code and I would tax the trillionaires that have become at 5% so that ordinary Americans can prosper.” ([55:29])

• Khanna on Constitutional Enforcement:
  “The problem with the president is that he’s been using [powers] unconstitutionally... So what we need to do is enforce the Constitution.” ([61:26])

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Key Timestamps

• [10:37] – Episode begins in earnest: “What would you change about America?”
• [13:56] – Ro Khanna’s top change: overturning Citizens United
• [15:48] – Pesca’s suggestion: uncap the House, fix representation
• [19:03] – Discussion on polarization, media incentives, and national “vibes”
• [26:20] – Callers suggest abolishing Electoral College, term limits, healthcare reform, more
• [32:49] – Khanna on making Medicare-for-All possible
• [35:10] – Discussion: Israel/Gaza as wedge issue in Democratic primaries
• [39:22] – Multi-party democracy and barriers to entry
• [47:08] – Debating the Senate and filibuster’s future
• [53:31] – Khanna supports term limits for Congress/Supreme Court
• [55:29] – Billionaires, tax fairness, and Elon Musk
• [57:41] – Drug policy and prison sentencing reform
• [59:33] – Gerrymandering and redistricting rules

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Tone & Feel

• The episode retains an earnest, engaged, and civil tone, balancing policy wonkery with philosophical musings and frank talk.
• Both Khanna and Pesca are willing to question their own “side,” critique conventional wisdom, and reflect on institutional inertia and realistic prospects for change.
• Callers from across the country provide a rich, diverse, sometimes provocative range of concerns.

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Summary Statement

This episode can be summed up as a thorough exploration of American opportunity—both its practical boundaries for reform and its enduring optimism that Americans can, should, and sometimes do make real progress. From technical fixes (like ending the Electoral College, reforming healthcare, or campaign finance) to cultural shifts (valuing unity, reframing perception from crisis to progress), the conversation both grounds itself in history and looks forward to America’s next 250 years.

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For listeners or readers who want a thoughtful, wide-ranging take on American change—where ideas from the left, right, and center are all on the table—this episode delivers depth, breadth, and the real voices of the country.

Transcript

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[Mike Pesca]

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[Mike Pesca]

on a show, a public radio show, also a podcast called the Middle I was on. The other guest was Representative Ro Khanna. And I have to credit Jeremy Hobson, the host of that show.

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[Mike Pesca]

They said they got more interaction on the call out question than they ever have. What would you change about America? So we got, I wouldn't say, I don't know.

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[Mike Pesca]

We discussed this in depth. I think that there were the snap your finger changes. That's how I mostly addressed it.

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[Mike Pesca]

the American perception that is quite off in a way that hasn't been for most of my lifetime. Tried to quote a Annie Lowery piece that you also heard me talking about on the show. These are important to me. But most of the suggestions were about constitutional amendments we could make. And I didn't say it on the show, but I think some of those would definitely improve America. But they are all in the category of tweaks. Maybe the most we could do with actual changes is to tweak things for the better. What is progress other than a series of tweaks? Isn't that a denigration of the march of progress? To call it tweaks, their changes, but the snap your fingers of obviously that's wishful thinking, but those are the biggest big things that I wish could change. And they're more of, and I do say this, the recognition of progress and the rejection of catastrophism. Khanna was an interesting guest and I think he was game and we got along Certainly I did try to put to him a couple of questions as I would if we had a straight interview. Me and someone who is an important member of Congress. I might be running for President. Almost certainly is. Well, it kind of depends if AOC tries to take that very left leaning lane. Anyway, an interesting discussion in two parts. It's a long show. I'm going to give you all of it here. Now the middle America's turning to 50. What would you change about America?

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[Jeremy Hobson]

Happy almost 250th birthday America and welcome to the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson along with our DJ Toliver and and Toliver, we have a very broad topic this hour and I'm sure we're going to hear many different thoughts on our question, which is what would you change about America? And I'm going to start with you Toliver. What is a big change that you would like to see in our next 250 years?

[Toliver]

I think you know I'm in the tank for big transit. Okay? I want fast free trains everywhere. Train propaganda far as the eye can see.

[Jeremy Hobson]

You still don't have a driver's license.

[Toliver]

I do not.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well, that is a good one. I want to give our listeners some ideas, though, as we think about other potential big changes. Consider the big changes that have happened over the last 250 years. Biggest maybe end of slavery, which came by constitutional amendment. We've made huge changes because of our votes, like when FDR swept into power, he brought Social Security, lbj, Medicare and Medicaid. Reagan. The change the country wanted was less government. And there have also been changes that haven't involved votes or the Constitution. We've embraced technology, from AI to social media to medical breakthroughs like GLP1 drugs. And we've decided that certain things should not be done, like smoking in public places or driving without a seatbelt. So what is one thing you would change about America as it celebrates its big birthday? You can call us at 8444-middle. That is 844-464-3353 or go to listentothemiddle.com but first, last week we asked about the biggest challenges facing teachers today. Here are some of the voicemails that came in.

[Caller]

Hi, this is Patrick. I'm calling from Glastonbury, Connecticut. One of the reasons I lead to teach burnout is just all the decisions they have to make every single day. I also have thought that, like, AI is a big problem. A lot of kids kind of don't really feel the need to think. So as a result, I see a lot of learned helplessness as well. Hi, my name is Maggie. I'm calling from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. I'm a teacher. I've been both a special ed and a general education teacher in elementary and middle schools. One of the biggest challenges we face in Wisconsin is lack of funding for special education. Hi, my name is Joel and I'm calling from Phoenix, Arizona. And my comment was about teachers and their lack of tools for disciplining. And I think that what's absent from that discussion is the role of parents. And I think that a lot of that discipline starts at home.

[Jeremy Hobson]

You can hear that full show and more of your voicemails on our podcast Extra, the follow up. Just subscribe to the Middle wherever you get your podcast. So now to our topic this hour as our country celebrates 250 years, what would you change about America toliver remind us how people can reach us.

[Toliver]

You can call us at 8444-middle. That's 844-464-3353. Or you can write to us at listentothemiddle.com or comment on our live stream on YouTube.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And joining us this hour, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. Congressman, great to have you on.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be on for the hour.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And journalist Mike Pesca is with us as well, host of both the Gist and the how to podcast. Mike, great to have you as well.

[Mike Pesca]

Thanks for having me on with Representative Khanna.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Hobson]

And Congressman, let me start with you, because you've said that you're thinking about running for president. You must have thought about some things. You would like to change. What is at the top of your list for something that you would change about America,

[Representative Ro Khanna]

money and politics. We need to have a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United. If it's not going to go through Congress with the two thirds that are needed, we should go to the states. There's a group, America Promise, that already has 25 states ready to hold a constitutional convention under Article 5 to force a vote on overturning Citizens United. I believe we can get to 29, 30 states. We would force Congress to pass this amendment. And we've used this before in our country's history to get the direct election of senators. Congress wasn't moving. We went to the states. The states got to about 27, 29, and then that forced Congress to act.

[Jeremy Hobson]

By the way, the last constitutional amendment that we had was in the 1990s. It involved congressional salaries. Why do you think there haven't been more constitutional amendments brought up and passed in the last few decades?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Well, the framers, as you know, made it hard to do. It requires two thirds of Congress and 3/4 of the states to ratify, or 2/3 of the states to call a convention and then three fourths to ratify. And the problem has been big money and special interests really can have enough of a impact to make that kind of majority very difficult to obtain. But I believe you can get that on this issue of money in politics. In fact, there's a Republican in Michigan, Tom Bartlett. He's not well known. He's one of the newer members who's introduced this amendment. So this has the ability, in my view, to really bring the country together.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Mike, I don't think that you have started an exploratory committee for any kind of run. But what would you change about America?

[Mike Pesca]

Well, there's the snap your finger change, and then there is the let's get in there and tweak the Constitution. And Representative Khan is absolutely right. The reason that's so hard to is that was by design. And the Constitution has a lot of flaws. But let's also excuse the founders. They were reinventing democracy for the first time after Athens. So they got some things wrong and they tried their best. But it is a little frustrating that we can't correct the things I would say. And I have my list of wish lists. If I were to pass a constitutional amendment, I would go with uncapping the House. Wonder what Representative Khanna thinks of that. But this would have a couple of things that would pretty much take away all the problems with the Electoral College. But also it would just mean that our representatives are closer to the people and we don't have, you know, he represents 700,000 people. When we started, it was like 1 20th of that, and that would probably be a better democracy. I also think on the issue of money in politics, it will be very hard to pass because the people who will be asked to vote on it got there in the old system. And I also think if you look at the political science, money in politics is important. It does somewhat correlate to some of the problems we have. I think not as severely as most people think. And just look at the last three or four presidential elections. Used to always be the case that Democrats were outraged by Republicans. And then Democrats started swamping Republicans in the presidential race and other races, too, and they would lose occasionally to Donald Trump, more than occasionally. So it's not the silver bullet. I'm not saying that you're saying it is, but maybe if some people think this will correct most of our ills. I don't think so.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well, Congressman Connor, let me ask you. I mean, the other thing that makes it difficult to do a constitutional amendment or to make big change in this country right now is the level of polarization that we have in this country. Do you think that that can change, or is that where we are at this point?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

It can change. It depends on finding the issues that can have common ground. Obviously, Thomas Massie and I managed to do it on the release of the Epstein files, and that was an issue in terms of let's not cover up sexual abuse that still united Americans. My sense is that there is a growing recognition that we shouldn't be giving aid to Israel, particularly in light of how they've acted in Gaza. People may not go as far as I have in saying it was a genocide, but there is certainly a recognition on both sides of the aisle, especially the next generation, that we should be focused on the United States not getting into these foreign wars. That could be another area. And then there's a recognition that we really shafted A lot of people who didn't go to college in terms of their economic security de industrialized a large part of the country. We've seen wealth pile up in the hands of a few and benefit the capital class. And that we need a new economic vision that really provides economic security to towns that were hollowed out and to working class Americans, particularly Americans who didn't have a college degree. And so those are areas that I think you could find common ground.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Mike, what do you think? Do you think that it is possible to get more unity in the country, less polarization?

[Mike Pesca]

Very hard. And I think you put your finger on where I would snap my fingers and change something to lessen the enmity, to decrease the incentives for polarization, which are everywhere and they're kind of baked into the system now. I just want to. Yes. And the Epstein point and say, look at just what happened this week with almost all of the Senate and almost all of your House getting together to pass this very bipartisan bill about housing. Everyone wanted it. And then one actor, Donald Trump, comes in and thwarts the whole thing based on just raw, naked politics. And I also think a poor political calculation, but it was mostly based on negative polarization, hating the Democrats more than wanting a solution. He supported the bill. He just wants to hurt the Democrats more with the SAVE Act. So I think that is the biggest thing that we need to do. And one way may be to decrease the enmity and how much we are at each other's throats is is to increase our appreciation for how good things actually are. They definitely need improvement, but by economic measures, by standards of living, by all objective measures except perception, we're doing very, very well. And yet our economic perception, they call it a vibe session. Great article in the Atlantic today by Annie Lowery says the Vibe session is over. The perma session is here. Even though we're doing well, we think we're not. And that is why it's so useful. In these last two weeks, we've seen these European and world visitors come to the United States not knowing what they get, and they're blown away by things like BUC EE's and the bottomless cup of coffee and all these things that America.

[Jeremy Hobson]

SCOTT they love the beer in Boston, those Scots. Let me, let me ask, let me ask you one more thing. We have a lot of calls coming through, and we're going to get to those in just a minute. But, Congressman, let me ask you, because you represent Silicon Valley, which is where all the AI is coming from right now, which has Been transforming, changing everything in this country very quickly. And a lot of people are not happy with that change and think we're moving too fast into AI without considering the consequences, not least the energy and water use. What do you think?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Let me just say, to the point about America's living better, I mean, there's no doubt that our health outcomes have improved. There's no doubt that convenience is improved and that consumer goods are a lot cheaper, cost of tv, cost of, you know, maybe a cup of coffee even. But the problem is that most Americans don't believe that their life is going to be as good as their parents, that they could buy a house, that they can afford a college education, which we used to have as almost free. They don't believe that they're going to have a good paying, secure job. And I think that's where a lot of the anxiety comes from. And that is not, in my view, just a vibe that is really a product of globalization. Deindustrialization in an economic system that has rewarded a capital class. And the AI revolution in my view, exacerbates that. And one of the reasons people in America are so upset about it is they don't trust the elites, that this will just be used to get more money in the hands of the billionaires. But I'd love to get thoughts because, you know, I think there's a healthy debate about whether we've improved or not.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well, and, and maybe we're going to hear from some listeners about that. But to one huge change in this country in the last few decades has been a move away from smoking in public places.

[Toliver]

Yeah. And that's happened because of a number of bans at the state and local level and also on airplanes. Listen to this 1990 news clip about a partial smoking ban on flights.

[News Reporter]

This warning light will now stay on permanently on virtually all 17,000 domestic flights a day. In the United States, only the handful of flights lasting more than six hours will allow cigarette smoking. After today. Most passengers say they can now breathe easier.

[Caller]

I think it's just much cleaner, healthier, safer.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

I think it's great.

[News Reporter]

New Jersey Senator Frank Lautenberg, once a two pack a day smoker himself, led the fight against in flight smoking.

[Caller]

It's a health issue. People who don't want to smoke shouldn't be obliged to smoke someone else's smoke.

[Jeremy Hobson]

By the way, more than half the states currently have bans on indoor smoking in all restaurants, bars and workplaces.

[Toliver]

I would have thought it was more than that, actually.

[Jeremy Hobson]

I would have thought it was more than that too. But that's what it is. I looked it up. We'll be right back with more of your calls coming up on the middle.

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[Jeremy Hobson]

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[Jeremy Hobson]

This is the Middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. If you're just tuning in, the Middle is a national call in show. We're focused on elevating voices from the middle, geographically, politically, philosophically. Or maybe you just want to meet in the middle. This hour we're asking what is one thing you would change about America? Toliver. How can people reach us?

[Toliver]

Just call 8444-middle that's 844-464-3353. You can also write to [e-mail] I'm

[Jeremy Hobson]

joined by California Congressman Ro Khanna and journalist Mike Pesca, host of the Gist and how to let's get to the phones because the lines are all full. Claire is in Madison, Wisconsin. Claire, what is one thing you would change about America?

[Caller]

Hi Jeremy Love, love, love your show.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Thank you.

[Mike Pesca]

As soon as I heard the subject for tonight, I immediately came up with two things. One, eliminate that darned Electoral college and

[Caller]

to have term limits for Supreme Court justices.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Two very good ones. And I'm glad that you brought up the Electoral College because I knew that was going to come up this hour. Claire, let me ask Ro Khanna, what do you think about those two things? Would you get rid of the Electoral College and put term limits on Supreme Court justices?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Yes, on both and certainly with this court where after the Dobbs decision taking back women's rights, after the Calais decision, taking away voting rights, the decisions today taking away immigrant rights, you know, the court is just out of touch. I think term limits make a lot of sense and I think we should abolish the Electoral College. The way to do it, in my view the most, the easiest way to do it is to get this 270 compact where states get to 270 votes and commit to voting for whoever the popular vote winner is.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Right. Although I wonder if they would, if they would change their mind once if the winner wasn't who they wanted. In that sense, state after the fact. Let's go to Sarah in Dallas, Texas. Sarah, what about you? What would you change about America?

[Caller]

I would change more better laws. About drunk drivers.

[Jeremy Hobson]

About drunk drivers. Tell me more.

[Caller]

Well, whenever someone gets in a crash with them, it's most likely fatal and it's very sad.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Sarah, how old are you by the way?

[Caller]

I'm 10.

[Jeremy Hobson]

10.

[Toliver]

All right.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well I appreciate your call. Thank you for that, that idea.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Mike Pesca, that's great to see Sarah doing that. I just want to give her a shout out for being so civic minded.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Absolutely. And Mike, you know I mentioned seat belts earlier. That was a change that was made that you have to wear seat belts in cars. But that, that is an interesting one coming from a 10 year old listener.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And I have good news because we've changed norms and the success of groups like Mothers Against Drunk Driving, it has gone down a lot. It was something like in the 80s, 20,000, 18,000 traffic, alcohol related fatalities and in 2022 was 13,000. And we're having all these amazing accomplishments around us. For instance, something we never think about just because it's off the table, particulate matter in the air. And Medicaid recipients deaths from coal plant emissions dropped from 50,000 in 1999. So I'm not talking about 1949 in 1999 to 1600 in the year 2020. So 95% drop. These things are happening all the time. There are so many forms of cancer that were once almost immediate death sentences that now have 90 something percent cure rates. So I'm saying we're kind of living in the era of miracles. Let us not take it easy. But if I could change anything, I wish people would understand and appreciate that more. And then when they do, they could see, well, what's the stuff that worked, how do we do that again and how do we not go back? So, for instance, by allowing more coal plants to come online, you're going to get more coal plant deaths. If everyone knew the particular, particular matter statistic, maybe they wouldn't stand for it.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Yeah. You know, though it does make me think about other dangerous things that we do. And one of the changes that we've made in this country in the last couple of decades is how much we're using our phones, how much screen time we're having, which we know is not good for us, and yet we still do it. And I wonder if there's going to be a moment when that is another big change that occurs in this country that we really take a step back from that. Let's go to Rebecca in Columbia, South Carolina. Rebecca, what about you? What would you change about America?

[Caller]

Hey, yeah, so I am a type 1 diabetic. So one of the things I would love to see improved is our health care system because a lot of people actually, coincidentally with the name of the show in the middle, either don't qualify for the low income assistance and make too much money to qualify for the financial assistance programs that the health care companies offer. Like, you know, it has to be so much of a percent below the federal poverty limit. And in the middle, people don't qualify because they make too much, but also not enough. And especially for something so crucially vital to survive. I can't live without insulin. And the manufacturers have the monopoly, so they can charge whatever it is they want. And people ration it, they water it down, they take less and it just hurts, it hurts the system when people don't have or can't afford the health care that they need.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Rebecca, would you go to Like a single payer system, Is that what you're suggesting? Or how would you change our health care system?

[Caller]

All systems have flaws. So I'm not, I don't know what the best, I mean, you see, I think what comes to mind is more the European mentality of where they have more of the socialized healthcare. It's coming out of your taxpayer dollars. But then the things you need are the visits. A lot of that stuff actually ends up getting covered because it's already been taken out of your taxes.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Yeah. Let me take that to our guest. Rebecca, thank you very much for that call. Ro Khanna, what do you think could change with health care? Because we've seen, I mean Obamacare passed. That was very difficult. President Obama had I believe 60 Democrats in the Senate for a period of time and they still couldn't get a public option in that in Obamacare. And the Trump administration has tried time and time again to dismantle it, to get rid of it. But do you think that big change in health care is something that is going to happen in this country again or is it just too hard of a lift?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Yes, and I think AI makes that more possible because there is now an anxiety about jobs and people are going to say we don't want our health care to be tied to just to our job. And so it makes sense to expand Medicare, something that is very popular and start by expanding it to 60 to 50 and then further to expand it to 50 is actually not even that dramatic of an expense. It's about 50 to 60 billion dollars on average to do that. And we need to work towards getting Medicare for all. And that's something I believe we can build a coalition to do.

[Jeremy Hobson]

You know, we heard Rebecca Mike mention the term socialism referencing the European healthcare system. You are joining us from the now Democratic socialist run New York City. Do you think meaningful changes to our economic system are possible or are the wealthy too powerful now to give up control?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I'm glad you didn't say Democratic Socialist Republic of Brooklyn, where I'm joining you from, I think it's quite possible but you have to focus on it and you have to have priorities. And so I did notice in the victories of the headline getting three fairly far left candidates to different, different degrees, two DSA candidates and Brad Lander that an emphasis, just as when Representative Khanna was listing things that we could get together about, the emphasis was more on Israel and United States funding of Israel. You could, you can't emphasize everything and say the one or two slogans you have to decide which are your rallying cries. And so it was Israel that was cited instead of the more usual and what I had been hearing from the left, Medicare for All. So my question to the representative, why is that? Why do you think that Medicare for All is the thing that really gets people out? The really, the thing that really rallies the left? And you know, if you run for president, that'll be your lane. Why do you think Israel has replaced Medicare for All or some environmental claims as the thing that really unites and puts a fire under that alignment of the American political system?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Mike, first, it seems to me it's a clear contrast in races. So you know, Medicare for All, there are a number of people now who will adopt it even if they're not fully committed to it and say, well, I'm for Medicare for all too. So it's harder to draw that contrast in a way that Bernie did when, you know, it was really only him and Elizabeth Warren who were championing at the second thing is that Israel has just the Gaza and Israel have become a proxy for Are you a truth teller in American politics now? Obviously different people have a different perception of truth. But for many people in the Democratic Party, they see what happened post October 7th and they see that Israel's response was utterly disproportionate and 20,000 children died. And the UN is saying it was a genocide. And if you're not being willing to say that, why is that? And then are you really going to be willing to fight for a billionaire tax or Medicare for All?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

So you think those. I don't think those two are as clearly related. If you don't say genocide, you're not for a billionaire tax. But I just want to point out that the first part of your answer, if we're talking about enmity and partisanship, you're right in terms of political science that there was once a contrast on Medicare for All and now there is not. So you don't stand out if you endorse it. But doesn't that just mean as more people agree with you, you emphasize these important issues less? And by the way, we don't have Medicare for All. So it might not be a contrast, but it might be the thing that needs emphasizing.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

I often lead with it. But you know, I we're talking about Democratic primary races where people are choosing between two Democrats. And yes, I think the sincerity of conviction of Medicare for All matters, I think it would probably matter for a presidential race because there people have two years or something to evaluate a candidate but in a congressional race, if someone puts on their website Medicare for all, is a voter really going to do the due diligence or did they just do that a year ago or have they made it in the fight harder to do? And so I think voters look to a number of issues as a proxy for does this person share my values and are they going to fight a system that they feel is stacked against them? And I have been surprised to some extent of how much Gaza has been an issue in Democratic primaries. But having been to a lot of races across the country, I'll tell you just factually, wherever you stand on it, it is. And by the way, if you talk to Josh Godheimer who has a totally opposite view of me, he'd say the same thing. He would just come at it differently but he would not deny the fact that this issue is consume Democratic primaries.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Yeah. Let's get to some of the comments that are coming online. [e-mail] as we ask people what would you change about America?

[Toliver]

Most comments I've ever gotten. Okay, so here's Patty. She says I'd like to see a civics test administered before allowing a single person to vote. Tony and Champagne says we need a better way to find our leaders in China. Their political leaders come up through the ranks and have proven their abilities. Scott wants a nonpartisan FCC to enforce standards and media outlets spread fake news. Taylor says I believe one of the biggest problems facing America today is our first past the post voting system and. Okay, I'll just stop here. Okay, I got like 30 more of these.

[Jeremy Hobson]

It is funny the amount of people that, that, that want to make changes to just how the government works in general. Let me get to another caller. Jeff is in Overland Park, Kansas. Hi Jeff, what do you think would, what would you change about America?

[Caller]

Hey, thanks Jeremy. When I first called in I said we need to figure out a way to make practical a multi party system in the United States. And as I've been in the queue listening, I think part of the answer to that question is we have to get the dark money politics so that the Republican and Democratic mega donors are not controlling the narrative from the start.

[Jeremy Hobson]

I want to ask our guests about the, the multiparty aspect of that, especially if he would be running for the Democratic nomination. What do you think about that Ro? Khanna, would you, do you think that the two party system that we have right now should change?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

I'm for new parties entering. I have always said that the Democratic party needs to earn votes and shouldn't be lecturing people not to vote for a third party. You know, companies don't say, well, just buy from me or buy from my competitor and don't choose something. A third choice. And our politics are too stale. And in my view, having new parties emerge would be a good thing. The structural barriers to that are hard, but we're also at a volatile time. So you know, candidly, if there were ever a time a third party candidacy could emerge for president, probably at 28 is, is not a bad time.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well, and also it would probably have to be like right now because the closer you get to 2028, the more angry either of the two parties would be about a third person jumping in. They say you're just taking away votes from this person or that person.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Yeah. And it, and it would be a unique accommodation. But the challenge of it is that the rules are so hard.

[Caller]

Right.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

To qualify on ballots and the parties have really made the system that makes it very hard for four third parties to compete.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, here are some countries with proportional representation. France, the uk, India. I would not swap our current political state with any of them because you have the National Rally in France. You have the Brexit party in the uk The Indian political system is dominated by, I mean it's factionalized, but you know, it's still able to be dominated by Modi and Hindu nationalism. I don't think that that is actually the cure for our problems. But it would be interesting to have a Canadian type system where occasionally a robust third or fourth party could gain some seats.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well, and, and, and the British are Now on their 100th Prime Minister in the last week.

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So

[Mike Pesca]

they're Italy now apparently, I guess.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

And you get a multi parties without having proportion out proportional representation.

[Caller]

I mean.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

But which is which, maybe, I don't know, is Canada like that? I mean I, you know, I'm not saying we go to proportionate, proportionate representation, but I think having a few more parties would be good.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Let me just sneak in one more call here before the next break. Jeff is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Jeff, what about you? What would you change about America?

[Caller]

Hi, thanks for taking my call. There have been so many good changes that people have been talking about tonight. But one thing I would change is the mindset in America that government is costing too much money rather than investing in people and investing in future, you know, education, health care, you know, these are public utilities effectively. So I think that mindset has to change to, to make better use of our tax dollars.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well, Jeff, you're calling in from North Carolina, which is a very purple state with, you know, Republican legislature right now, Democratic governor, but goes back and forth. Do you think that your fellow North Carolinians agree with you that there should be more money invested by the government into these kinds of things?

[Caller]

I think many do. And, you know, and I think people are all too quick to point to wasteful spending, but then they're upset that they're not getting the services that they require. You know, North Carolina is one of the last in school funding. But, you know, education is what makes, you know, North Carolina have a fairly strong economy. It's been an education state for a long time. I see that slipping away. So and, you know, I view these things as a, like I said in my intro, public utility, you know, health care, it's a public utility. I mean, I think, yeah, it's not a competitive marketplace. So.

[Toliver]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Well, Jeff, thank you very much for that call. And Tolliver, you could say that the biggest and most consequential change in American history was the abolition of slave under President Lincoln.

[Toliver]

Yeah. Well, we don't have any archival audio of Honest Abe talking about that, but we do have actor Daniel Day Lewis playing him in the 2020, 2012 film Lincoln arguing in favor of the 13th amendment. Listen to this.

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[Jeremy Hobson]

The 13th Amendment, by the way, passed with the required majorities in the House and Senate, and it got the needed approval from three quarters of the states in December of 1865. Unthinkable now back when we did constitutional amendments. We'll be right back with your calls on THE middle. This is THE middle. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This hour we're asking what would you change about America? I am joined by California Congressman Ro Khanna and journalist Mike Pesca. You can call us at 8444-DOUGLE. That's 844-464-3353. Or you can reach out at listentothemiddle.com and before we go back to the phones, Ro Khanna, a Reuters poll came out the other day and found that 38% of Americans don't believe the US will exist 250 years from now, at least not as a single country. What do you say to people who want the United States to get divorced, whether it's people who want Texas to secede or California to secede or are there to be one country for blue states and one for red?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

They're wrong. Too many people have spilled blood for the country to be a union. Whether it was the Revolutionary War, the Civil war, World War I or World War II. We're trying to do something historically unprecedented, to be a cohesive multi racial, multi religious, multi ethnic democracy. No nation in the world has done that. And we should work towards achieving that purpose, not shirking from it. And I would argue that our challenges don't rise up to some of the challenges that previous generations have faced.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Mike, do you think that the country is moving towards separation, or do you think that, you know, the media and our political system tend to reward people for talking about a country that can't be saved?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, all the incentives do rise to catastrophization. And think about the last times we actually succeeded or were almost torn asunder. It was through that original sin, that peculiar institution, that we couldn't have had a country unless we made compromises with the slave state and the free state. But it was a long time coming, and there was a civil war based on the most profound differences that a people's ever had. Now, what would there be a civil war about? You know, if you like monster trucks or if you like granola, I mean, what would what other than vibe? Other than kind of really minor differences in just the outlook of life? Like how would or why would we actually divorce from each other trans athletes in high school? What's the issue that touches and sets it off that is a thousandth as important as slavery? I don't think it exists.

[Jeremy Hobson]

A lot of people I can just see are calling in with ideas for constitutional amendments. So why don't we just hear from one of them? Let's see. Kathleen is in Fort Collins, Colorado. Kathleen, what do you think?

[Caller]

Well, for a long time I thought that at the national level level that the legislature should be one body instead of separated into the Senate and the House. I think the Senate has way too much power with their arcane rules and their filibuster, and they don't truly represent the people because a state like Wyoming that's less than a million people has two senators. A state like California that's got 30 million has two senators. So it doesn't really represent the people. And when you have one party in charge of or in power in the House, for example, and the other party in charge of the Senate, then you just have complete gridlock. And I think just having one body elected by the people would work out a Lot better.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Kathleen, thank you for that. Rokhanna, what do you think about that?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Well, as a practical matter, I believe that getting rid of the filibuster would be a step forward. And you know, I, I think the idea of changing the House and Senate probably very, very difficult to do. So my focus, you know, if I was starting from scratch, the caller makes good points, but given now, I would focus on how do we get the Senate moving, which ending the filibuster would do.

[Jeremy Hobson]

You represent though, a district in California where there are a lot of people who are very upset about the fact that as, as we just heard that, you know, there are so many people and they're represented in the Senate by the same amount of people as a state like Wyoming.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Yeah, I mean, I agree that, that, you know, the, the focus on these two senators with as much power to states rights back then as a compromise because they needed to get the state's buy in to have a national government. I mean, that's probably not what we would design today. But of all the things that we could perform, it seems to me that a realistic, achievable one, at least in my political lifetime, is getting rid of the filibuster. You know, 200 years from now, who knows what we do. But for now that would be my focus.

[Mike Pesca]

And also I'd add it's good to have at least one house without two year terms. Six year terms are good. I wouldn't want all my elected federal officials to have them, but you know, two year terms, it's just basically get elected and then start fundraising again.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Chris is calling in from central Florida. Chris, what about you? What would you change about America?

[Caller]

I wanted to touch on, on the earlier was mentioned that there's not much more important than the end of slavery. And I agree that that's, that's one. One of the most influential changes we've made in the country. I also want to touch on what I see now in the country. This Antichrist entered ideologies that we're seeing, whether it be with the LGBTQ issues, whether it be with allowing homosexuals to adopt children, whether it be with how prevalent pornography is on our webs online. There's just so much that, that I see as being Antichrist.

[Jeremy Hobson]

You'd like to see more. You'd like to see more,

[Caller]

not necessarily more religion. I would like to see more Christ. More, more Christ like elected officials also like even some of the policies that, that the Democrats push all the time when it comes to social issues.

Yeah.

I don't Understand, like, I've known Muslims for over almost 20 years now, and some of those policies, even Muslims are completely against. And there, I just feel like it's, there's the, the parties are trying to pull people away from, from the things that have made us who we are as a people. Think about where we come from as a bloodline, whether, you know, we're here because our family has made, has pushed us to this point. Hundred. We have a history of thousands of thousands of years. And if our family were looking at us today, they would be ashamed. Like, I'm talking about our ancestors, even

[Jeremy Hobson]

Chris, let me bring that to our guests and see what they think. Mike Pesca, you know, there are a lot of people in this country who would like to see more religion. I don't know that necessarily they would be focused specifically on one, as Chris is. But what do you, what do you think about what you just heard?

[Mike Pesca]

There some idea about values and morals and some of the teachings of Jesus certainly are things that the country needs. But I think if you replaced. Well, first of all, the great thing about America, it was founded on an idea, not a religion. But I do think if you were to replace our civic religion with something like the teaching of Christ, we would no more agree on that than we do what we disagree on right now. I mean, is Christ the Christ that the caller represented with no adoption by homosexuals? Or is Christ the love thy neighbor as you would thyself and clothe the naked and feed the hungry? You know, so I don't even think that that would actually be. Apart from the fact that it goes against the founding and our explicit documents. I don't even think that that would be unifying, even for those who do believe in Christ.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Sean is calling in from Denver, Colorado. Sean, what about you? What would you change about America? Hey, Jeremy, thanks for taking my call.

[Mike Pesca]

The biggest thing for me is imposing term limits for Congress and coupling that

[Caller]

with publicly funded elections.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Okay, you know what is interesting? If you're watching on YouTube, you would have seen that Ro Khanna nodded when you said term limits. But does that mean that you're in favor of term limits for Congress, Congressman?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

I am. I've said 12 years in the house, 12 years in the Senate for term limits, in the House, Senate, and also the Supreme Court.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Okay, and what about, what about public funding of elections?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Yes, I mean, I think that that would be ideal. At the very least, we should have states be allowed to regulate campaign finance. I mean, it makes no sense that someone is restricted to not give a Candidate like me running for Congress, more than $3,500, but can go into the room next door and write a super PAC $2 million that would support me or oppose me. I mean, it's a totally broken system and it has given people with money too much say. Now, I agree with Mike that money is not determinative. I mean, Kamala Harris had more money than Donald Trump and their lots of cases, Mamdani was outspent. But the threat of money and big money has a distortionary impact on politicians thinking and erodes trust in our democracy.

[Mike Pesca]

By the way, I'll throw a good fix that no one said elections that last less than two months in Canada.

[Jeremy Hobson]

That would be nice.

[Mike Pesca]

They last between 37 and 51 days. It's a nice way to do it. It concentrates the mind, eliminates a lot of the money.

[Jeremy Hobson]

But then there would be so many TV shows that would have to go off the air because they spend all day, every day talking about the elections. Ronna, by the way, you are in a tragedy. Jeremy, you're in a little bit of a tiff with the world's first trillionaire, Elon Musk, right now, who you have said needs to answer for the fact that people have died because of cuts to usaid. He has said you should be jailed. Do you think that there should be a change made so that we can't have trillionaires or even billionaires in this country? Or do you think that's just the capitalist system and that we should let it, let the chips fall where they may?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Well, certainly trillionaires shouldn't threaten to jail people. But the. My problem is the tax. I believe we have a biased tax code where you tax capital at a rate that's less than taxing work. And so we've allowed for massive accumulation of, of wealth. You don't have tax on stock buybacks. You don't have an effective corporate tax rate. Often even at 21%, they're paying less. So the system has been rigged in a way that even though Musk, in my view, is an entrepreneur and created actually useful products in Tesla and Starlink and SpaceX, the wealth that he's accumulated is exaggerated by a bias tax code. So I would fix that tax code and I would tax the trillionaires that he's become at 5% so that ordinary Americans can prosper.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Let me go to Aaron in Chicago. Aaron, what about you? What would you change about America?

[Caller]

Hi, thanks for having me on.

I'm from Chicago, Illinois.

I would change the drug classification system I think that all drugs should be decriminalized. And I don't think that someone who smokes weed or maybe chooses to do

anything else should be seen as a criminal.

US spends $75 billion a year prosecuting drug users. And with that money, if we didn't spend $75 billion, we can give free education, higher education to every student in America. We can give free school lunches to every student in America. And we could use the rest of the money to increase access to public health and mental health awareness.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Yeah. And you're calling us from Chicago, where I was recently. And not only are there marijuana dispensaries, now there are mushroom dispensaries in Chicago too. So it's already moving in that direction. Aaron and Mike Pesca. It's one of the things that's actually kind of interesting is a change that has been made in this country. 2014 was the year that marijuana was first legalized in Colorado and Washington state, I believe. And now more than half the states have legal recreational use of marijuana. We have been moving in the direction that Aaron's talking about.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I think it's 26, 24. You have to pay attention to the rollouts here in New York. There were a lot of, well, a lot of missed starts. But here's one to add to what Aaron was talking about just in terms of the incarceration. And I very much believe that we can cut jail sentences, prison sentences massively. That when people turn 40 or 50, they basically age out of crime. And even Norway has no life sentences. 21 years is the most you could get. And that horrible guy who killed dozens of people, he has a 21 year sentence and he lives in a jail cell with a laptop and a kitchen. So I think if our jail and prison system were not eliminated, I totally disagree with the abolish prison reforms. But if we really, really lessened jails, it would come at a very low cost. Sure, there'd be headlines. You know, a 60 year old is going to be let out and he's going to do something bad. But overall this would have, this would be a boon to society and we don't think about that that much.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Congressman, what do you have thoughts on, on, on that, on kind of like declassifying drugs? Is that something that would be part of your presidential campaign?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

Well, certainly marijuana, I mean, I think. Let's start there. I don't think just declassifying all drugs is the right policy, personally. I mean, but I would declassify marijuana. And I agree with Mike that we need to look at mandatory minimums and have a rational policy on what those mandatory minimums would be. And there are a lot of people who get long sentences with racial disparity as well that are not justified.

[Jeremy Hobson]

I'm going to get one more caller in here, Dave in Mishawaka, Indiana. Dave, what would you change about America?

[Caller]

I change, I get rid of gerrymandering. I don't, I'm not, you know, an expert on the Constitution, but I don't really, I don't know if that's even in the Constitution, but if it is, they made a mistake because, you know, gerrymandering allows, you know, politicians to choose their own voters instead of the other way around. And I think you do, I think you would do a great service to this, to our democracy if you got rid of it, because I think it'd be more, there'd be more representation, you know, instead of, you know, politicians choosing their own voters. And another thing I don't understand is how the Republicans got to, how can you redistrict before the 10 year census? Because, I mean, in the Constitution it says you have a census every 10 years and then, you know, you draw your lines. How can you do it before that? I mean, is that even constitutional? How are they getting away with it? Right.

[Jeremy Hobson]

Which is what's happening all over the country right now. Dave, thank you for that. Ro Khanna, your thoughts on gerrymandering, which has really been happening so much this year.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

I agree completely with the caller. That was John Lewis's voting rights bill. We would have ended gerrymandering nationally, would have had independent commissions in every state, and we should do that. And the Democrats, when we next have power, should, should do that.

[Jeremy Hobson]

By the way, if you, if you actually do run for president, if you were to win the White House, would you take away any of the powers of the president that President Trump has been using? Do you think it makes sense to limit the extraordinary powers of the President of the United States?

[Representative Ro Khanna]

The problem with the president is that he's been using them unconstitutionally. So what we need to do is enforce the Constitution. Let me give you three examples. The president shouldn't be going to war without getting Congress's authorization. I mean, the fact that he went into Iran for months was illegal. And no Democratic president could get us into war without getting that authorization from Congress. Second, the president shouldn't be taking down departments and stopping funding that Congress has authorized. And no Democratic president should just be appropriating money or refusing to spend money in defiance of Congress. And third, the president is engaged in corruption. I mean, the engagement of having family businesses that are being enriched by foreign entities. That is illegal in my view, on the emoluments clause, but it's just not being enforced. So I guess I would just say that we need a Democratic president who's aggressive on pursuing our ideals and our agenda, but aggressive in a constitutional way.

[Jeremy Hobson]

We have to leave it there. That is Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California. We've also been speaking with Mike Pesco, who hosts both the Gist and the how to podcast. Thanks so much to both of you.

[Mike Pesca]

Thanks for having us.

[Representative Ro Khanna]

That was great.

[Mike Pesca]

That's it for today's show. The Gist is produced by Cory Wara. Jeff Craig does How To.

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[Mike Pesca]

And Michelle Pesca is extraordinary in her role as coo. Thanks for listening.

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[Representative Ro Khanna]

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