Sarah Silverman & Kyle Kinane: Comedy, Cancel Culture, and Conspiracies

Summary

The Gist — Episode Summary

Title: Sarah Silverman & Kyle Kinane: Comedy, Cancel Culture, and Conspiracies
Host: Mike Pesca (Peach Fish Productions)
Date: December 27, 2025

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Overview

This episode of The Gist features two acclaimed comedians, Sarah Silverman and Kyle Kinane, in back-to-back interviews drawn from the show's archives. Mike Pesca explores the evolution of comedic styles, the challenges of cancel culture, bridging cultural and political divides, and how both comedians grapple with the current polarized climate. The episode flows from Silverman’s reflective and philosophical approach to comedy and activism, to Kinane’s wry observations on authenticity, success, and his low-stakes conspiracy theories.

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Part One: Interview with Sarah Silverman

Starting at 07:02

Silverman On Podcasting vs. Standup

• Silverman describes her podcast (“The Sarah Silverman Podcast”) as "immediate and messy" compared to her carefully honed standup. She appreciates the looseness and directness, even as she sometimes cringes at her own lack of refinement in hindsight.
  • Quote: “There is something about the immediacy of it and the messiness of it that I’m into. I think it’s kind of neat.” (07:35)
• She records both her standup and podcast but admits she’s slow to review her own work for new material.

Bridging Divides in America

• Pesca asks about Silverman’s experiences visiting Republican families for her show “I Love You, America." Silverman reflects on the country’s deep divisions, musing that only a dramatic external event might unite us.
  • Quote: “It probably would take an alien invasion for us to come together.” (10:09)
• Silverman believes society is “consciously divided by entities,” making unity feel almost impossible, yet she attempts to remain hopeful.

Perspective, Learning, and Mistakes

• Silverman models openness and learning on her podcast. When called out for mistakes (such as misgendering), she responds with humility and a genuine interest in being corrected.
  • Quote: “Being wrong never feels shitty to me. I love being changed with new information.” (11:38)
• Discussion turns to Silverman's 2006 blackface sketch and its repercussions over a decade later. She accepts the consequences and stresses that comedy entails risk and responsibility.
  • Quote: “Of course, comedy has consequences, and that’s the risk of it. And if you don’t accept them, then don’t be a comedian.” (12:35)

Cancel Culture and Redemption

• Silverman differentiates between desiring genuine change and engaging in “righteousness porn.”
  • Quote: “Do you want people to be changed, or do you want people to stay the same so you can point to them as wrong and yourself as right? … There has to be a path to redemption.” (13:29)
• She accepts that her divisive style means mainstream commercial work will likely elude her, noting, “you can’t complain if it’s what you do.” (14:58)

Evolution, Progressivism, and Absolutism

• Silverman discusses her personal evolution and worries that both left and right engage in absolutist thinking.
  • Quote: “There’s so much absolutism, and I’m like, how can that be progressive? That means to change: progress.” (15:08)
• She recalls calling out “Bernie or Bust” supporters at the 2016 DNC, reflecting on the importance of compromise to achieve progress.
  • Memorable Moment: “You Bernie or Bust people are being ridiculous.” (16:12)

The Comic Persona

• Silverman observes she once performed entirely “in character”—arrogant yet ignorant—but shifted toward more personal, sincere comedy. This move mirrored (in some ways) performers like Steve Martin moving past their original on-stage characters.
• She addresses the dangers of context-free quoting (internet memes) from old material, noting a death threat incident resulting from a meme taking a joke (in character) out of context.
  • Quote: “Memes with quotes can really get someone killed.” (21:25)

Artistic Evolution

• On transitioning from shock and surprise-based comedy: Silverman explains the bravery it takes to start from zero and risk losing fans to find new voices.
  • Quote: “I think that’s the biggest bravery in comedy is going back to zero and starting over and being willing to lose the people that love you now.” (24:29)

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Part Two: Interview with Kyle Kinane

Starting at 27:09

On Voting and Authenticity

• Kinane riffs on the performative aspect of celebrity “get out the vote” campaigns, calling out their disingenuousness.
  • Quote: “You’re not telling me to vote. You’re telling me to vote for Hillary. Stop acting like you’re just filled with civic pride… Just tell me who you want me to vote for.” (27:09)
• He shares an anecdote about his girlfriend trolling co-workers with a mock “I voted for Trump” sticker—eliciting zero laughs.

The “Lovable Loser” Identity

• Kinane reflects on aligning himself with the historically hapless Chicago Cubs, using their underdog identity as an artistic compass.
  • Quote: “Their brand was being loser. And that’s why I could identify… Oh, you let a bunch of people down. I got that one. I’m familiar with that feeling. So. All right. Go Cubs.” (29:24)
• Pesca notes the tension between Kinane’s comic persona (schlubby loser) and his increasing success. Kinane resists the idea of being phony or a “hipster Larry the Cable Guy.”
  • Quote: “Hopefully the brand is just… I’m going to be completely honest about what’s happening in my life on stage.” (30:00)

On Comedy and Perspective

• Kinane admires comics who make him laugh from viewpoints he doesn’t share, citing Sam Jay and Drew Carey as examples.
  • Quote: “If you can make a joke about a thing I don’t agree with you on, but the joke’s funny enough, that’s good comedy.” (31:30)
• He points out how some comedians devolve into simply agreeing with their audiences for applause, which he finds hollow.

The Value of Standup

• Standup is the “most idealistic” of professions, Kinane posits, since it involves little compromise and demands authenticity. Comedians can shift their material as they grow, but must stay true to themselves.

Kinane’s Comic Development

• Grew up outside Chicago, went to several colleges, and started standup in earnest at 22.
• Early inspirations included the tight writing of Mitch Hedberg; he began as a pure writer with a deadpan delivery, evolving later toward more personality-driven, salesmanship-infused performance.

Conspiracy Theories Bit (from Conan)

Segment at 37:15

• Kinane shares his brand of “low-rent” conspiracy theories, like Trader Joe’s purposefully small parking lots and expiration dates being a ploy by food companies.
  • Quote: “I think that Trader Joe’s is making their parking lots too small on purpose, just so they seem more popular than they really are.” (37:15)

The Craft of Joke Writing

• Kinane elaborates on building jokes from personal annoyance (Trader Joe’s parking) into broader bits by casting them as conspiracy theories. He sees “writing” as the process of mentally working through frustrations and embellishing for effect.
  • Quote: “If you want to call that writing—even though there’s no pen to paper or fingers to keypad—that’s the writing process.” (41:09)

Final Notes

• Kinane plugs his unscripted, unfocused podcast, “The Boogie Monster,” and his touring schedule.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Moment | |-----------|---------|----------------| | 07:35 | Sarah Silverman | “There is something about the immediacy of it and the messiness of it that I’m into.” | | 10:09 | Sarah Silverman | “It probably would take an alien invasion for us to come together.” | | 11:38 | Sarah Silverman | “Being wrong never feels shitty to me. I love being changed with new information.” | | 12:35 | Sarah Silverman | “Of course, comedy has consequences, and that’s the risk of it. And if you don’t accept them, then don’t be a comedian.” | | 13:29 | Sarah Silverman | “Do you want people to be changed, or do you want people to stay the same so you can point to them as wrong and yourself as right?” | | 16:12 | Sarah Silverman | “You Bernie or Bust people are being ridiculous.” | | 21:25 | Sarah Silverman | “Memes with quotes can really get someone killed.” | | 24:29 | Sarah Silverman | “I think that’s the biggest bravery in comedy is going back to zero and starting over and being willing to lose the people that love you now.” | | 27:09 | Kyle Kinane | "You’re not telling me to vote. You’re telling me to vote for Hillary. Stop acting like you’re just filled with civic pride..." | | 29:24 | Kyle Kinane | "Their brand was being loser. And that's why I could identify...I got that one. I'm familiar with that feeling." | | 31:30 | Kyle Kinane | "If you can make a joke about a thing I don’t agree with you on, but the joke’s funny enough, that’s good comedy." | | 37:15 | Kyle Kinane | “I think that Trader Joe’s is making their parking lots too small on purpose, just so they seem more popular than they really are.” | | 41:09 | Kyle Kinane | "If you want to call that writing—even though there's no pen to paper or fingers to keypad—that's the writing process." |

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Key Takeaways & Flow

• Comedic Process: Both comedians describe evolving methods—Silverman through oscillation between messy immediacy (podcast) and slow refinement (standup); Kinane through honest adaptation, starting as a “writerly” comedian and moving toward confessional storytelling.
• Cancel Culture & Redemption: Silverman emphasizes learning, accepting consequences, and stresses the necessity of paths to redemption rather than perpetual condemnation.
• Authenticity & Persona: Both discuss performing true to their current lives, even as success (or controversy) changes audience perception.
• Perspective & Divides: Silverman holds hope (tinged with skepticism) that dialogue—even across political lines—can foster empathy. Kinane, meanwhile, relishes comedic specificity and the art of “defending” unfamiliar or even disagreeable perspectives.
• Joke Construction: Kinane highlights the transformation of small annoyances or observations into broader, structured comedic material, defending the utility of even mundane “conspiracy theories.”

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Suggested Listening Timeline

• 07:02–25:18: Sarah Silverman’s interview — creative process, cancel culture, politics, comedy evolution.
• 27:09–42:11: Kyle Kinane’s interview — authenticity, underdog identity, joke writing, gentle conspiracy theories.

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This summary distills the episode’s main insights and flavor—expressed in the natural voices of its guests—while providing a useful, time-stamped guide for listeners or readers seeking to understand the shape and substance of the discussion.

Transcript

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[Sarah Silverman]

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[Mike Pesca]

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[Sarah Silverman]

Hey, cool. My pleasure. I'm a fan.

[Mike Pesca]

That's excellent. Thank you.

[Sarah Silverman]

You are far more articulate than myself.

[Mike Pesca]

But what you do is you search out those moments of inarticulation and then you find and hone the great bit. And that to me is something that's always escaped me. Like I could speak for hours and do some pretty good stuff, but when you go on stage for a one hour session, it's also finely crafted. I don't know, it's always been hard for me to master that.

[Sarah Silverman]

I'm a very slow honer with my standup. But, you know, this podcast has been very freeing and a huge, it continues to be a big lesson, you know, because it's, it's immediate and it's. The things I love about her are also things that I'm not used to. It's, it's, it's really loose. It's really messy. You know, I'll listen back and go, oh, this would have been so much better said this way. Yes. You know, I form my opinion or am able to articulate it so much better days later. But there is something about the immediacy of it and the messiness of it that I. I'm into. Right. You know, I think it's kind of neat.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you ever get material for. I don't know if you're thinking of doing material. It's hard in a pandemic. But is any of the stuff that you talk about on the podcast, do you think any of it will ever become something that could be in your act?

[Sarah Silverman]

Yeah, I mean, I'm hoping that that's the case, you know, but it's just. It's all. So. It comes out of my mouth and I really don't think about it again. But if I force myself to listen back, I can see where things can be honed into something, you know, funnier.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Sarah Silverman]

And it's just like in Stand up, you know, I record my standup, as most comics do, but listening back is like, you gotta really force yourself to. Yeah, I gotta listen to this. It always yields, you know, new thoughts, you know.

[Mike Pesca]

So I wanna ask about the I Love youe America with Sarah Silverman and the couple segments you did where you went to Louisiana and Wyoming. Right.

[Kyle Kinane]

And.

[Mike Pesca]

And.

[Sarah Silverman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And you lived with families, and these were families who were definitely Republican, and you bonded with them, and you got to see their perspective and they saw yours. And so I think that's a great lesson. But my question is, in a way, I mean, as I was thinking of this lesson, I never thought that humans, human beings, Americans, were so distant that that couldn't be possible on a personal level. But since policy is. And politics isn't made on a personal level, does that experiment give us hope? Or in a way, is it a little bit dispiriting? I'll give you, if the Shia and the Yazidis are not getting along because the Shia think the Yazidis are worshiping the devil, well, then you can understand it. But if people from Wyoming and Minnesota are so far apart, what hope do we have to ever come together politically?

[Sarah Silverman]

Yeah. I was thinking about this this morning. I go, man, we're so divided. It probably would take an alien invasion for us to come together.

[Mike Pesca]

That's the premise of the Watchmen, right?

[Sarah Silverman]

It is, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

I watched the Watchmen, the original comic book. They, like. They faked an alien invasion to make the Countries of the world come together.

[Sarah Silverman]

Oh, right, the squid.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, that's it.

[Sarah Silverman]

Right, yeah. Of course.

[Mike Pesca]

I love how we casually ruin the Watchmen for people.

[Sarah Silverman]

Sorry. No, that's not that. That's not any of so good. The series was unbelievable. It's just one season of genius. Anyway, I think we are divided because we have been consciously divided by entities so willfully, mindlessly, cult like divided that it's just. It feels impossible to undo. But I try to remain hopeful.

[Kyle Kinane]

Well, you do.

[Mike Pesca]

And you. I think you model perspective taking on your show. And I think the experiments on the.

[Sarah Silverman]

Hulu show that shows canceled.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, no, no, no, the. On the. What I'm saying is I think the podcast is exactly that. And when someone calls in and there are almost all fans, no one. I haven't heard anyone really tear into you but say, hey, you misgendered me, or hey, you described what sexual orientation is. Is incorrectly, or even that it exists on the show. You're never defensive. You're always like, thanks, I'm trying to learn. I'm almost 50.

[Sarah Silverman]

I love. I wish other people could have this gift I seem to have been given where I just. I love learning new things. Being wrong never feels shitty to me.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm with you.

[Sarah Silverman]

I love being changed with new information.

[Mike Pesca]

Me too.

[Sarah Silverman]

Like, I'm totally down.

[Mike Pesca]

So I was thinking about the incident where in, what was it, 2006, you did blackface on your show and you've talked about that. And then I listened to the interview you did with Bill Simmons last year. So this is just last year. And in that interview, which was after a GQ interview, I feel bad because.

[Sarah Silverman]

He really took on that fight and Bill Maher went crazy.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Silverman]

And the truth is, I understand it. It's a consequence.

[Mike Pesca]

That is. That is what I'm getting at. It seemed to me that the tone from when you were talking to Bill Simmons was to let listeners know because you did this old sketch that you certainly regret doing and realize now. You realize now why it was wrong.

[Sarah Silverman]

Of course, comedy has consequences, and that's the risk of it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sarah Silverman]

And if you don't accept them, then don't be a comedian. So I just had to go, well, that was a consequence, wasn't it?

[Mike Pesca]

You know, my observation is, first of all, I was totally with you on the 2019 interview. You can really make a strong point. That says a thing I did in the name of comedy that might not have worked artistically is now getting me fired from a job, whatever it is, 11 years later. Just think about that, you know, there are nuances to it. So I was with you.

[Sarah Silverman]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

But my observation is that the tone was that not only did you understand why the producers fired you, you were sympathetic to their call. Maybe you didn't say that's what you would have done, but you did articulate. Look, you know, it could have. It's a small movie. Right? It could have. And a year ago, you need to.

[Sarah Silverman]

You know, so many things can kill a project that hundreds of people work so hard on because of bad press or someone's connected to it or something. And I don't think that would have happened because I've always talked openly about it. You know, I sent them the episode. I did an entire episode on I love you, America about it. I said, you know, listen, you know, but that's their call. And I'm not saying this as a representation of how it should be with everyone. Also talk about cancel culture and how there has to be a path to redemption. Do you want people to be changed, or do you want people to stay the same so you can point to them as wrong and yourself as right? And I, you know, I. I call it righteousness porn, but as a comedian, I say it's a little different. And, you know, some people say, like, well, art should have some leeway. And. And I love that. That's Works great for me. But I also think as a comedian, when you take risks and chances, those risks, risks me and consequences. So to a degree, I go, you know, look, no one's hiring me for a mainstream commercial. I got the best skin in the business. But you don't see me on a new Jersey.

[Mike Pesca]

You can't even see pores.

[Sarah Silverman]

I got teeth, pearly teeth for days. But you're not gonna see me in a mainstream ad because I'm divisive. But that's something I have to accept. That's a comedy. I do. And, you know, it comes with it. You can't complain if it's what you.

[Mike Pesca]

Do, you know, do you think that in the last year you've evolved even more? Because what I'm saying is I sense an evolution from how you framed it in 2019 to how you talk about it now.

[Sarah Silverman]

Yes. You know, I'm not patting myself on the back. I just. I like learning new stuff. You know, I'm gonna look back on this interview in 10 years and cringe at how problematic it is. You know, that's called evolution. Yeah, it's progress. I mean, that's why, like, I think of myself as a progressive, and I Love Bernie and Warren. And I'm a democratic socialist. But even on that side, I see there's so much absolutism, and I'm like, how can that be progressive? That means to change progress. You know, we really are not that different. But our labels and our language, you know, not only do we not have a shared truth, we don't have shared language anymore. You know, we can't use the same language. We gotta boil shit down.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sarah Silverman]

And I think Bernie does that well. And I. I think that's what I can do, too, to a degree, is it's not dumbing it down. I just think the most important stuff is real, real, real simple.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Well, I thought it was the 2016 DNC, where you and Al Franken kind of said to the Bernie people, guys, get some perspective here.

[Sarah Silverman]

Yeah. What happened was conventions are, you know, like, it's people with, like, styrofoam hats with a million pins on it. And I saw some fringe, Bernie or bust, and they were just beet red, screaming in the faces of Hillary supporters. You know, like, I'm Bernie. I wasn't big on Hillary, but of course I voted for Hillary. I came out and spoke on behalf of her because Bernie asked me to, and I wanted her to be president, but to see these people just scream, you know, on the floor of this, you know, stronger together thing. And I just said I was talking to specific people. I go, you know, you, Bernie or bust people are being ridiculous. Yeah. And of course, the Hillary people loved it. And Bernie people were very angry at me for a long time, and some still are, but I was just literally talking to the people on the floor, and it was true. I mean, there is.

[Mike Pesca]

You're also literally embodying what Bernie's message was about that issue. Like, you, my most ardent supporters, are better coming along with the Hillary campaign. I think history proved that. Right.

[Sarah Silverman]

What makes me crazy is the Hillary people that say that Bernie didn't, like, show up for her. He went to more states than she did, he busted his ass for her, and I just. I don't know. I. Anyway, listen, I'm so grateful Biden's president, and, you know, I look forward to being able to complain about a Biden presidency. That would be a dream come true. I'd be so happy. You know, but it is interesting the. If I were to compare the far right and far left. The far right, their racism is based in nationalism. The far left, it's in absolutism.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Sarah Silverman]

You know, if you're going to refuse to Vote for Biden because he doesn't behold every single thing you want when it's the only path to those things. You're accepting four more years of massive hardships for the most marginalized people in our country. So it's. It kind of evens out in a notch.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Like last week, Biden appointed. He needs a liaison to Congress. So he chose, I think, an excellent choice, black congressman from Louisiana. Now, to get elected in Louisiana, you have to represent your constituents who might work for, for the oil industry. Indeed they do. So he takes donations. And the Sunrise movement just lit into it as, you know, a sellout. Now, I know that's what the sunrise movement, which is an extremely progressive environmental movement, that's what they do. Maybe people within their midst would say, if you're not holding absolutely everyone to account 100%, you're not being the sunrise movement. But in real life, it's like, come on, guys, this is a black politician who can be a very useful go between, between the administration and the House. You know, get some perspective.

[Sarah Silverman]

Yeah, I mean, listen, you know, you can look at Georgia and say, we have to get Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock in. You know, in the south, they have to walk a very fine line. So like, John Ossif is like, I'm not for the Green New Deal. I'm not for Medicare for all. And my reaction is like, what? I thought he's our guy. But then the truth is, unless we get them in, we'll never, we won't get the Green New Deal.

[Mike Pesca]

Sure.

[Sarah Silverman]

He's the key to it. He's the key to making healthcare more accessible to people and everything, you know, even if he doesn't embody all of it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I think it goes under remarked how you used to essentially do all your comedy in a character and then, and then you stop doing it. And if that character had a different name or a different look or just dressed differently, we'd all say, oh, Sarah Silverman has abandoned her character. Like, Paul Rubens is no longer Pee Wee Herman. But something like. The only other analogy I could think of is, you know, Steve Martin stopped doing the Wild and Crazy Guy. And it was pretty apparent he's still Steve Martin, but he stopped doing that. But did you just go from doing that character to 100% not doing that character? Was it a clear cut change or, or was it gradual?

[Sarah Silverman]

I don't know. I mean, I know that, you know. Well, I, I did my first special Jesus Magic was all in character as myself. And then the Sarah Silverman program extrapolated on that. So, you know, it was this very kind of Bugs Bunnyish, arrogant, yet ignorant character. You know, it was funny because before Trump absurdist. But, I mean, I think everything I said, it was the opposite of what I meant. But the. I think unless the. To use a math term, absolute power transcends, you know, that's the key to it working.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Sarah Silverman]

I mean, this is very unfunny way of breaking down comedy.

[Mike Pesca]

No, no, no, it's great. I love it. The absolute value of your comedy. So it doesn't matter if it was that much negative. Put two brackets around it. What's the absolute value of what she's saying? Is what she's really saying.

[Sarah Silverman]

Yes, right.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes, it's good.

[Sarah Silverman]

You know, I mean, I think if. If people really thought I believed what I was saying, it would be disturbing.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sarah Silverman]

And that's why, like, memes with quotes can really get someone killed. You know, I mean, there's a pastor in Florida, I don't know who started the meme, but there was, like, a meme of me. It goes around. That is like a picture where it looks like I'm making a speech. Maybe it's a picture from the dnc, actually. But the quote is from Jesus Magic, which is all in character. And it says, I'm glad the Jews killed Jesus. I'd do it again. Is like the quote they take, which is part of a larger bit, of course, and is in character. It got me a lot of death threats. And then this pastor in Florida showed it and said to his congregation that killing me would be God's work, and smashing out my teeth and killing me would be God's doing.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sarah Silverman]

And I was like, someone's gonna get me killed, you know, and I don't wanna get killed. I find that not romantic at all.

[Mike Pesca]

You stand against that.

[Sarah Silverman]

Yeah. But that stuff keeps happening, and it just feeds into all. All the misinformation that people get. Power or on the Facebook side make tons of money through misinformation through. Because it. It causes rage and rage causes clicks, and clicks cause rage, and it just goes over and over again. And they sell ads. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

It's freaking crazy. Rage is such a powerful force, and clicks are so small and pathetic, and yet that's how it's monetized. Did you. Did you start doing the kind of comedy you're doing now from that kind of comedy for entirely artistic reasons, or was some of it that politically you wanted to say what you wanted to say? Or maybe even it just got to Be a drag that people were getting it wrong so much.

[Sarah Silverman]

Well, I'll tell you what happened. No, none of those really. My first special I kind of got famous from and then it was like a lot of my comedy was shock and surprise.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Sarah Silverman]

And so then I had a kind of, what's it called? Identity crisis, you know, because I had to write new material, but where do I test it out? You know what I mean? And I need to. I wanted to please the audience and now their expectation was surprise, so I had to surprise them. But then if I do that, then I'm giving them what they expect and then it's not surprise. And then finally I had an epiphany that just comedy dies in the second guessing of your audience. And then I have to be brave enough to start from zero and bomb a bunch and figure out who I am now and what's funny to me now. And so, you know, after each special, and I don't do a lot of Specials, I've done three in 25 years or whatever, whenever I'm doing starting a new set, I just, I go up and I eat shit. You know, I mean, if one thing works great, I've got one thing. I build on that and I have, you know, the audience. You know, there's nothing like the audience going, oh my God, Sarah Silverman. And then being like, huh. But, you know, and I think a lot of comics just, they just want to kill. They're too afraid and they don't write or, or progress or change. They become kind of caricatures of themselves. And I think that's the biggest bravery in comedy is going back to zero and starting over and being willing to lose the people that love you now. Or maybe they grow along with you or they don't. But you gotta do it or the alternative is not for me.

[Mike Pesca]

Sarah Silverman has a new podcast out. It is the Sarah Silverman podcast. You know her from such political conventions as the Democratic National Convention. Sarah, it was great talking to you.

[Sarah Silverman]

Thank you so much. It was great talking to you too.

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[Kyle Kinane]

There's so many showbiz types like, the most important thing is just that you vote. You're not telling me to vote. You're telling me to vote for Hillary. Stop acting like you're just filled with civic pride right now. You want me to vote for some. Just tell me who you want me to vote for. Don't tell me the most important things to vote because if I say, cool, I'm going to vote for Trump, you're going to say, don't vote. You'll ruin America.

[Mike Pesca]

On this show I was talking about, the one unifying thing is the message get out and vote. And how proud everyone is and how inspiring it is to see the I voted sticker. But if right under I voted, you put for Trump. Yeah, yeah, that would be the least inspiring thing.

[Kyle Kinane]

My girlfriend literally did that at her work. Like edit her own thing. Like for Trump. Like hilarious office gag that nobody liked at all today. Yeah, that's my problem.

[Mike Pesca]

At noon it was funny.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, that's my problem. I just don't. Don't veil it. Like it's just civic American rah rah pride.

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[Kyle Kinane]

You're telling me who to vote for.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, you know what? And we're speaking with Kyle Kinane. His new special is loose in Chicago. It airs at midnight October 15th on Comedy Central. I usually don't do the rolling comedian podcast start like, you know how.

[Kyle Kinane]

Well, that's all right.

[Mike Pesca]

WTF does it.

[Kyle Kinane]

And here we are.

[Mike Pesca]

We've just been hanging. No, actually, it is rolling. So we're talking about voting and.

[Kyle Kinane]

And time travel since that came out three weeks ago.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, yeah. It airs on October 15th.

[Kyle Kinane]

God, if time travel were real Now's the time to tell people, hey, you really need to vote.

[Mike Pesca]

You need to have a little 10 minutes in that special on what's at stake, dude. Well, also, did you nail the Cubs thing in that special?

[Kyle Kinane]

No, I mean, I recorded. I recorded at a place called the Metro, which is directly across the street from Wrigley Field.

[Mike Pesca]

I know.

[Kyle Kinane]

And it was in May, so I'm like, all right, I gotta make sure there's no games going on. And I recorded at a venue that I've been going to see all ages shows at since I was 15. I remember being some like this resentment for the Cubs of being, you know, a 17 year old punk rocker and then all these jocks in the neighborhood because you'd forget that there's a band you wanted to see the same night as a game. All the money you were going to pay to somebody that was over 21 to buy you beer, you had to pay for parking instead.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, but I actually think of all the. Of all the teams, there's definitely an indie rock overlap with Cubs.

[Kyle Kinane]

That's been one of the discussions now is what happens post lovable loserism. Post 108 years, they lost their brand.

[Mike Pesca]

It was a stupid move.

[Kyle Kinane]

It was. Their brand was being loser. And that's why I could identify. I don't play sports. I didn't grow up with sports. I didn't have dads or like grandparents that were like, this is our team as a family team. I had none of that. All I had was like, oh, you guys, year after year, like, yeah, what a disappointment that I could relate to in any form. I'm like, oh, you let a bunch of people down. I got that one. I'm familiar with that feeling. So. All right. Go Cubs.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, I was thinking about this. In your own life, you're having a run of success. Great success deserves success, yet your brand is, you know, has the elements of the schlub loser in it.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, I don't want to be disingenuous. I don't want to become, as my friend coined it, a hipster. Larry the Cable Guy. Where this guy. I'm just like, no, you're a millionaire. Your name's Dan and get some sleeves. So I'm not.

[Mike Pesca]

And you're from Nebraska, by the way.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, by the way.

[Mike Pesca]

There's a lot of authenticity with Larry the Cable Guy. Not named Larry, doesn't work in cable.

[Kyle Kinane]

Isn'T from the south. Yeah. Okay. Your character. I don't want to be disingenuous myself, boy, man, I can't I sure did. Such a little like. No, actually I'm 39 now. I'm trying to take care of myself. Hopefully the brand is just. I'm going to be completely honest about what's happening in my life on stage. And if that makes me less relatable to some people, well, I'm sorry. I'm not going to lie to you and be like, boy, it sucks, man, being broke and nothing goes right. No, things are going well. I get to tell jokes for a living. I'm very ecstatic about that.

[Mike Pesca]

It's not as if though, women have stopped sighing in your face while you're having sex.

[Kyle Kinane]

No, no, I got it. I got a nice lady now who if she does side my face, I know it's temporary and like. And you're right, you're absolutely right. And we'll have a laugh about this a little bit later.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, but there are a number of comedians who are in that boat and they start off as one thing and they get successful. And I think number of artists, you know, Springsteen. And the art has nothing to do with. Well, if the art is entirely dependent on I am from this milieu, then it's a gimmick and you could be successful. I gu. Larry is successful. Not to shit all over Larry the cable guy, but someone great like Louis ck He didn't have much, now he has a lot. And he jokes about the stuff he has, so it's great.

[Kyle Kinane]

Another friend of mine, John Roy, a comic from Chicago, is another. If you can make me laugh at a different viewpoint, like, especially speaking now in this political climate, if you can make a joke about a thing I don't agree with you on, but the joke's funny enough, that's good comedy. And so to hear somebody that's incredibly wealthy joking about being wealthy, but you can still laugh at it like it was Drew Carey. I would see Drew Carey in LA and he'll drop in on whatever show and very nice guy, but he's like, you want to tax more because rich people.

[Mike Pesca]

No, I earned.

[Kyle Kinane]

I worked hard and I earned this money. I complain about this to my maid all the time. And I mean, she'll finish her shift, but I'll dump some chips on the floor, keep her around, pair time and a half. But I'll tell her, listen, Lupa, you don't understand. I don't deserve to be taxed as much. You made me laugh at a joke about being incredibly wealthy.

[Mike Pesca]

Because I guess when a comedian starting off the recognition laugh is nice, but you don't want it anymore. You don't want the clap. Laughter necessarily.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

You said the thing. That was true.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah. Or just like going on stage. What challenges that in life to go up and agree with your audience. Great comic by the name of Sam Jay, who's a married black lesbian. I saw her do a bit where she defended old rich, white, racist dudes. Like, I get it. You know, you lost a leg in Korea and you just want to sit in your house and be racist. You fought for the right to be racist and everybody's like telling you you can't even racist in your own house. You're like, I went to war to be racist. I fought for the right to be racist. I get that. And I was like, what a refreshing viewpoint. Like, you took somebody else's perspective and defended it, even though it goes against yours. It's high school debate class stuff, but it makes. It's a great writing exercise.

[Mike Pesca]

It's more exciting for you.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, I love, like, why if I hate so many comedians, I hate this and it sucks and they say it. Well, if you don't like it, how would you fix it? Or defend, like, take that side for yourself and try to understand that side.

[Mike Pesca]

When this started, we were talking about the I voted sticker and it strikes me that you specifically for what you do, and I'm gonna use the word specifically again. The reason that just saying I voted and lighting the for who part, which is the whole reason for voting, right?

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

It's not like I voted, but only for municipal elections. I voted only for municipal court judge. You voted for president cuz you wanted one of those two people to be just that. So much of comedy in your comedy depends on specificity. And when you go around the specificity, when it's, you know, Katy Perry saying, get out there and vote for someone, it's offensive to you. Get specific.

[Kyle Kinane]

Well, any propaganda from any side I don't like. And I saw a lot of stuff that was happening on Twitter where people were saying, if you vote third party, you're trash. You're like, how could you can't be more undemocratic and un American than telling somebody their vote is garbage. You can't tell somebody to participate and then tell them they're wrong for the way they're participating.

[Mike Pesca]

This points out to me that standup comedy is, in a way the most idealistic profession because you don't have to get along with a group. You don't have to make compromises.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, I don't think I had like a list of careers laid out for me, like, Dr. Nah. Lawyer Nah. You know what? Jokes. Jokes for beer and peanuts. Nah, that's. I didn't have anything else going on, so I kind of fell into it.

[Mike Pesca]

You grew up a little outside of Chicago?

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, Western suburbs of Chicago.

[Mike Pesca]

Did you go to college?

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, I went to three of them.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. Did any of them stick?

[Kyle Kinane]

The last one. I went to a community college. I went to state school and I went to Columbia College in Chicago. I went there and I went there long enough to where they're just after. I forget, six years there, I think you're done. I was like, oh, no, I don't want to be done. I like it. It's liberal arts. I'm just taking fun stuff. I had no curriculum. I. I'm like, no, you have enough credits like you're getting a bachelor's degree. I was like, ugh. And so I moved to la. Like, I got the degree and I took off. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Did you do stand up in college?

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, that's where I started. I started when I was 22.

[Mike Pesca]

That's older than some comedians that I hear of. To me, it seems normal. We're roughly the same age. You hear some of these guys. Yeah, 17.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah. And I don't know where. Like, I didn't even know where to go for stand up. I mean, I didn't know you'd see it on tv, but especially when you're a teenager or something. I didn't relate to, like, this guys in blazers talking about their wives. Like, I don't. I like what they're doing. I was always mystified from an early age of, you know, staying up late, watching Johnny Carson. Like, that guy's the only thing. They just introduce him by name and he just stands there and talks. He's not in a band, he's not doing magic. He's not in movies. He's just talking to people and they laugh. And he got on TV because of that. That seems like the most in my head are like, that's the quickest way to success. I don't even have to learn anything. I just gotta talk. I can already do that as a human being. Let me give that a shot.

[Mike Pesca]

Was your style starting off different from it is now? Not more refined, but different Persona. Yeah.

[Kyle Kinane]

I was never a very loud, like, okay, parties. I was a loud, obnoxious. You look back and you're like, oh, man, I sure was fun at parties. Like, now you're a jerk.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Kyle Kinane]

You're just allowed up. You forced people to listen to you. But when I started Stand Up. It was from a writing standpoint. So it was guys like Mitch Hedberg that like the economy of words that they use to put a joke out there. I was like, that's fascinating to me. Like how, how you can refine something down to two sentences. So I had zero personality on stage. And I thought if I could just deliver it in writing, that if people laughed at the writing of it, then maybe I can start trying to sell it and have some salesmanship. And that eventually gave way to mostly salesmanship and the writing has totally fallen off.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, I want to play. So we're going to play this. And this is some of your set on a recent Conan.

[Kyle Kinane]

I do. I have conspiracy theories, but my conspiracy theories are so low rent, I can't even hang out with the actual conspiracy theorists because they don't want to entertain my notions. I'm like the Rudolph the Red nosed Reindeer of conspiracy theories. They're all in the clubhouse in the corner going over the real stuff. Like, of course the moon landing was fake because we had to beat Russia during the Cold War up there no matter what the cost. And I try and jump in like, yeah, and I think that Trader Joe's is making their parking lots too small on purpose, just so they seem more popular than they really are. It's obvious that the mob killed Kennedy. And I think that expiration dates on food are just a conspiracy by Kraft and the FDA to get you to buy condiments before you need to.

[Mike Pesca]

So here's what struck me there. It seems to me that there are a couple of lines there that could be lines, could be jokes, could be tweets, like the Trader Joe's. I, you know, your suspicion that Trader Joe has small parking lots on purpose, that's a funny concept, right? But to fit it inside this larger structure, it becomes something more. So did it start with that observation about the specific observations, or did it start with the conceit and then the observations were filled in?

[Kyle Kinane]

It started by just going to Trader Joe's. I'll be honest with you. To go like, this is ridiculous. You know, you're a popular grocery store. I don't even know if it translates, you know, here in New York or where.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, we had a couple translations.

[Kyle Kinane]

But driving in there and you're like, you know, you're a popular grocery store and I know you just opened up and now you got eight spots for the 40 cars trying to be like, you got, okay, so everybody drives by like, whoa, what's going on? But I am a conspiracy Theorist. I get into all that stuff.

[Mike Pesca]

You have this Trader Joe's observation. At what point do you say, well, this is kind of a conspiracy theory, or is it more like you're talking to conspiracy theorists and you're saying to yourself, well, there was that thought I had about Trader Joe's.

[Kyle Kinane]

Well, just from a pure joke writing standpoint, I'm like, I think this is. It's marketing. It's not conspiracy theory. It's like, oh, this is. I think this is a marketing theory. It's much funnier to put it out as a conspiracy theory of minimal proportions as opposed to like, oh, their way of advertising is to seem like they're like, falsely popular, but to call it a conspiracy theory, and you're like the guy in the shadows going, I'll tell you the real truth. That's what makes it a joke.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Kyle Kinane]

Instead of like, here's a marketing strategy a company put forth, and then it's not funny at all.

[Mike Pesca]

And then there are other grace notes in there where you describe yourself. You. It's akin to the Rudolph the red nosed reindeer. You know, you couldn't even play with the other reindeers. So I mean, I mean, there's the superstructure, there's the specific examples. There are some kind of side pathways of analogy. There's a lot going on there. I mean, to the audience, hell, if you interpret it like this, you're not gonna enjoy yourself. But there is writing. Like, really, there's a lot of choices and a lot of writing going on there.

[Kyle Kinane]

I think, well, how many people do you, like, take out the physical act of writing and think of your friends that know how to just get a ball rolling just mentally for themselves, get them worked up about something. And then mentally, they're getting a little more confident with what they're talking about. So their descriptions get more vivid as they're telling you about the best sandwich they ate or how terrible traffic was. And then, you know, they're starting to exaggerate, deal some of the details because you're laughing at them. So the stories get a little. I mean, it's a big fish story, but you're not trying to win. You're not trying to fool anybody. You're just trying to make them laugh. Yeah, and that's everybody I grew up with. If you were pissed or had a bad day and you wanted to complain about it to somebody else, it better be entertaining. You can't just complain, otherwise it's selfish. But if you're making somebody laugh, you're complaining, you're venting. And somebody else is being entertained by it. So you're killing two birds with one stone, if you want to call that writing. Even though there's no pen to paper or fingers to keypad, that's the writing process.

[Mike Pesca]

And then perhaps the greatest success of all, Trader Joe's hears you and adds two more spots. But they're, but they're handicapped, so you can't use them.

[Kyle Kinane]

Just give me a discount for the free press.

[Mike Pesca]

That's what I just want, free stuff, bad press. I know. Trump has proved that that doesn't matter.

[Kyle Kinane]

Hey, everything's. Everything's on its end nowadays, all right? You just disparage somebody as much as you can and be like, you know what? We'll take it. He's got. He's got a name in the zeitgeist. Let's give him. Let's give him some coupons.

[Mike Pesca]

Kyle Kinane's loose in Chicago special aired Oct. 15, will continue to air on the Comedy Central site. Anything else you want to plug?

[Kyle Kinane]

If you like my bad conspiracy theories, I got a podcast called the Boogie Monster that I host with my friend Dave Stone. We really have absolutely zero focus on. Don't, don't go to it for facts. We start talking about Bigfoot, but then we get into fried chicken recipes. It's really all over the place. But, yeah, I'm just out there. Probably coming to your city soon. So.

[Mike Pesca]

Kyle Kinane, coming to a city soon also. I loved you in love.

[Kyle Kinane]

Oh, thanks.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, great.

[Kyle Kinane]

Thank you.

[Mike Pesca]

Thank you, Kyle. Good to meet you.

[Kyle Kinane]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Mike Pesca]

The Gist is produced by Cory Wara. We had help today from Leah Yan. Kathleen Sykes helps me with the Gist list. Jeff Craig does so much with the video and the socials and the visual. He's a master of the visual in this a primarily audio form. Michelle Pesca also works with the visuals but is mostly the visionary. And thanks for listening.