Podcast Summary: The Gist

Episode: Shadi Hamid: The Left Should Learn to Love American Power
Date: December 12, 2025
Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: Shadi Hamid, Washington Post columnist and senior fellow at Georgetown University, author of The Case for American Power

Overview

This episode centers on Shadi Hamid’s provocative argument that the American left should reconsider its profound skepticism of American power. Hamid, himself a progressive and critic of U.S. foreign policy, outlines why he believes that, despite America's deeply flawed record, American power remains a moral necessity in a dangerous world. The conversation alternates between the theoretical—what power means to the left, the roots of American self-doubt—and contemporary flashpoints like Gaza, Iraq, and the Arab Spring.

This summary highlights the most important threads, including pivotal moments and memorable quotes, with timestamps for key segments.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Crisis of Faith on the American Left

[12:02 - 14:08]

• Hamid observes that many on the left, especially post-‘Trump II’, are intensely skeptical—even cynical—about America’s ideals and power.
• Reasons for this skepticism include the “forever wars” (Afghanistan, Iraq), and more recently, the U.S. role (or lack thereof) in the Gaza conflict.
  • Quote (Shadi Hamid, 12:27):
    “We’re in a moment of self-doubt, a crisis of self-confidence…progressives have been very disillusioned by what they saw as the Biden administration’s complicity—and then the Trump administration’s complicity—in allowing [Gaza] to happen.”
• Hamid’s case: If progressives want a more moral world, “the only way to do that is through American power... meld[ing] together the power that we have and the moral purpose we should have but don’t always practice.”

2. Why Is 'American Power' So Unpalatable?

[14:08 - 16:34]

• Host and guest debate whether “American” or “Power” is more toxic to many on the left.
• Hamid notes the left’s willingness to rationalize or excuse Russian and Chinese expansionism, but sees unique discomfort with American power, often rooted in U.S. historical sins.
• For some, “acts of evil...in America's founding...makes us irredeemable.”
• There’s an ideal of moral purity: “it’s better to be morally righteous than to be compromised by power.”

3. Declining Pride in America

[17:01 - 18:58]

• Stark data point:
  • In early 2000s, 85% of Democrats felt “extremely or very proud” to be American; now it’s 36%.
  • Quote (Shadi Hamid, 17:14):
    “There’s been a free fall over the last 25 years, and it is concentrated among Democrats and progressives. They’re the ones who have lost faith in America.”
• Hamid’s own journey: Once “blamed America first,” idolized Chomsky, came to see realities weren’t so simple.

4. When Has American Power Done Good?

[19:24 - 23:07]

• Hamid lists positive interventions:
  • U.S. interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo, Gulf War freeing Kuwait, and supporting democratization in Latin America and Eastern Europe post-Cold War.
  • Quote (Hamid, 19:40):
    “There are examples we can point to and say America actually did the right thing…but I wish there were more.”
• Iraq remains “one of the greatest blunders.” But intent wasn’t always malign. Policymakers genuinely wanted to help, yet failed catastrophically.

5. The Flawed Alternatives to U.S. Power

[23:07 - 28:07]

• Critics seem to imagine a “giant human rights organization” America—“like a big NGO.”
• Hamid counters that “the world is full of evil...someone needs to fight them.”
  • When U.S. retreats, “other people step into the void, and those people…are usually worse.”
  • Quote (Pesca, 26:03):
    “What do we do about Boko Haram? What’s their answer to what would ISIS be...their answer would be, ‘Oh yeah, ISIS probably would take over,’ but who’s really at fault for ISIS? And…in this worldview, it all comes down to colonialism and imperialism.”
• While grievances fuel extremism, some actors (ISIS, Taliban) are ideologically committed, and “sometimes violence is the only option.” (Hamid, 27:48)

6. The Gaza Dilemma and the Boundaries of Pragmatism

[36:07 - 42:07]

• Hamid discusses personal and communal pain around Gaza, especially in Arab and Muslim American circles.
  • Being seen as a “sellout” for defending American power, but believes “America is the last best hope or the least bad option.”
  • U.S. could have used power to pressure Israel for a quicker ceasefire: thousands of lives could have been saved, even if it wasn’t a total fix.
  • Quote (Hamid, 39:26):
    “I think that having, you know, three or four less months of war would be preferable, and that would actually save a certain number of lives. Is that, would that have been the best option? No...but in the real world where there’s tradeoffs, we can’t always get what we want.”
• Progressive refusal to accept tradeoffs—or “less bad” outcomes—is a hurdle for pragmatic arguments about American power.

7. Democracy, Tradeoffs, and Activism

[42:07 - 44:55]

• Hamid: Realism and democracy are key:
  • “If you don’t like what the U.S. did in Gaza...organize, participate, and advocate and try to elect leaders who are more sympathetic...We get the government we deserve.”
  • On the “Abandon Kamala” movement: protest is legitimate, but ultimately you have to vote for the better option, however flawed.
  • “America is morally superior to the alternatives. It comes back to the fact that our support for Israel is not some built-in structural reality that will always be there. It can change.”

8. The Arab Spring, Egypt, and Democracy

[44:55 - 48:40]

• Hamid’s doctrine: Respect democratic outcomes, even if you don’t like them.
  • “Democracy is the right to make the wrong choice.” [46:41]
  • Criticizes the U.S. for abandoning the Arab Spring, defaulting to old autocratic allies.
  • Regarding groups like the Muslim Brotherhood: there was risk, but America should have let Egyptians decide.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Shadi Hamid [17:14]:
  “There’s been a free fall over the last 25 years…concentrated among Democrats and progressives. They’re the ones who have lost faith in America.”
• Shadi Hamid [28:07]:
  “The only option with [ISIS] is to defeat them. This fantasy that we can talk to them or negotiate with them, I think is a foolhardy one…sometimes violence is the only option. And that’s a really hard thing for some progressives to hear.”
• Shadi Hamid [36:07]:
  “I don’t want people to think that in writing this book I’m kind of giving cover to the U.S.…I talk about Gaza very openly, especially in the introduction…how do I make sense of Gaza? Can you still be angry at America and still think America is the last, best hope?”
• Shadi Hamid [42:07]:
  “If you don’t like what the U.S. did in Gaza…organize and try to elect leaders who are more sympathetic to Palestinians. That’s the only way this is going to change.”
• Shadi Hamid [46:41]:
  “Democracy is the right to make the wrong choice.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment | |----------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 11:08 | Shadi Hamid introduced; book’s intended audience: the American left | | 12:02 | Why the left is skeptical of America and American power | | 14:08 | Is the left more allergic to “power” or “American” in “American power”? | | 17:01 | Dramatic decline in Democratic pride in America | | 19:24 | Positive cases for U.S. power in history | | 23:07 | Alternatives to American power and their weaknesses | | 26:47 | Root causes of extremism, but why some groups cannot be reasoned with | | 36:07 | Gaza, American leverage, and tradeoffs as a realist’s argument | | 42:07 | Democracy as a corrective, organizing for change, “we get the leaders we deserve” | | 44:55 | The Arab Spring and standing by democracy, even when the choice is hard | | 46:41 | “Democracy is the right to make the wrong choice.” |

Conclusion and Tone

Shadi Hamid’s argument is measured, at times anguished, and rooted in his own evolution from “blaming America first” to reluctant defender of American power. Both he and Pesca acknowledge the messiness, tradeoffs, and moral compromises of real-world politics. Hamid doesn’t shy from the left’s legitimate anger over interventions and U.S. complicity, but insists that “moral clarity” cannot substitute for the messy work of wielding power for better outcomes, however imperfect.

Memorable closing line:
“Democracy is the right to make the wrong choice.” [46:41]

Summary prepared for those who want substance, nuance, and a brisk walk through the thickets of liberal self-doubt and world affairs, without the pod’s ads and digressions.