The Brand Is the Business: Devon Archer on Biden, Burisma, and Being the Fall Guy

Summary

The Gist – Episode: “The Brand Is the Business: Devon Archer on Biden, Burisma, and Being the Fall Guy” Release Date: April 8, 2025 | Host: Mike Pesca | Produced by Peach Fish Productions

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca engages in a deep-dive conversation with Devon Archer, an international businessman intricately connected to Hunter Biden and the controversial Ukrainian natural gas firm, Burisma. Archer provides firsthand insights into the intertwining of business dealings, political influence, and personal turmoil that have plagued his career and relationship with the Biden family.

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Background: Burisma and the Biden Connection

Devon Archer elucidates the genesis of his and Hunter Biden's involvement with Burisma, highlighting the complexities of operating within a notoriously corrupt Ukrainian business environment.

• [06:25] Devon Archer: "There are very few uncorrupt companies in Ukraine."

Archer explains how both he and Hunter joined Burisma’s board in 2014-2015, a period marked by intense scrutiny as Joe Biden, then Vice President, spearheaded anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine.

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Joe Biden’s Role and the Firing of Viktor Shokin

A central theme of the episode revolves around Joe Biden's actions in Ukraine, specifically the dismissal of Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin, whom many international observers deemed corrupt.

• [11:10] Mike Pesca: "The administration problem isn't this particular action. The problem is that Hunter Biden is doing business in this intrinsically corrupt environment."

Archer contends that Shokin's firing was not merely a move against corruption but potentially served to protect Burisma—and by extension, the Biden family's interests.

• [15:03] Devon Archer: "Shokin was a problem, and I think that he was fired because he was in the way of Burisma's success."

He further suggests that Burisma officials downplayed the significance of Shokin's removal to manipulate public perception.

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Hunter Biden’s Business Ventures and the “Biden Brand”

Archer delves into the strategic use of the Biden name to bolster Burisma’s international image, asserting that Hunter was instrumental in leveraging his father's political stature.

• [24:37] Devon Archer: "Hunter was selling the Biden brand. We had an apparatus of a fund and a business that made money... Hunter's role was to sell the Biden brand."

The conversation highlights how Hunter's presence on Burisma's board was a calculated move to attract business and investment, intertwining personal relationships with corporate strategy.

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Legal Challenges and Becoming the Fall Guy

Devon Archer discusses his own legal battles, portraying himself as an unintended casualty in the larger political maneuverings surrounding Burisma and the Biden family.

• [34:16] Devon Archer: "It's about it. The only nuance is that the jury decision came and then the judge filed the Rule 33."

Archer explains how he became the target of legal action intended to distract from or undermine Hunter Biden’s dealings, emphasizing the personal and professional costs he has endured.

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The Influence of Howard Lutnick and Treasury Secretary Scott Besant

The episode also touches on the role of Howard Lutnick, Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, and their interactions with former President Trump, painting a picture of a tumultuous political landscape affecting business negotiations.

• [03:22] Howard Lutnick: "This stuff has got to stop. America's got to stop being exploited..."

Archer suggests that Lutnick’s aggressive stance may inadvertently embarrass Trump, intensifying political pressure and uncertainty within the administration.

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Addiction and Its Impact on Business Decisions

A poignant moment in the interview addresses the personal struggles within the Biden family, specifically Hunter Biden’s addiction, and how it has influenced business decisions and relationships.

• [43:04] Devon Archer: "Addiction certainly added fuel nitrous to the fire pit."

Archer reflects on how Hunter's addiction led to reckless decisions, adversely affecting business ventures and complicating the family's political narrative.

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Presidential Pardon and Future Prospects

As the conversation nears its conclusion, Archer discusses his recent pardon by former President Donald Trump, outlining the arduous process and ongoing legal challenges he faces.

• [40:26] Devon Archer: "It's been an absolute colossal, you know, train wreck in regards to... my life."

He underscores the complexities of securing a pardon, highlighting the necessity of strategic storytelling and influential advocacy to navigate the legal system.

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Conclusion: Navigating Corruption and Personal Turmoil

Mike Pesca and Devon Archer wrap up the episode by contemplating the broader implications of intertwined political power and business corruption. Archer emphasizes the irrevocable damage to his life and career, expressing regret over his involvement and the pervasive influence of political dynamics on personal and professional realms.

• [42:22] Devon Archer: "It's the single biggest regret in my life ever going into business."

Archer’s narrative serves as a cautionary tale about the perils of entangling personal relationships with high-stakes international business and politics.

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Notable Quotes

• Devon Archer [06:30]: "We need to handle this. This is just noise."
• Howard Lutnick [03:22]: "America's got to stop being exploited and you're going to see America prosper."
• Devon Archer [24:37]: "Hunter was selling the Biden brand."
• Devon Archer [34:16]: "I'm cooperating on other cases and I have another hearing that we scheduled."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Gist offers an intricate exploration of Devon Archer’s tumultuous experiences at the intersection of business and politics. Through detailed accounts and candid revelations, Archer paints a vivid picture of the complexities and ethical quandaries that arise when personal relationships influence high-level international business dealings. For listeners seeking an in-depth understanding of the interplay between the Biden family and Burisma, this episode provides valuable insights grounded in personal testimony and critical analysis.

Transcript

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[Mike Pesca]

So you are listening to the Gist, perhaps one of your favorite audio podcast, but not just audio anymore. We are going gangbusters on the YouTube, or as it's actually called, YouTube. And if you'd like to check out our offerings, video spiels, video interviews, some Cleverly edited content YouTube.com/@cesca gist why don't you sign up and be a subscriber? It's the best way these days for people to find out about the podcast. YouTube.com/@cesca gist It's Tuesday, April 8, 2025. From peach fish Productions, it's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca. On Wall street, it wasn't another cataract, but far short of terrific. Still, things were looking up. The markets opened higher. Foreign investors were saying maybe this Trump fellow will relent. That's in his character, right? Trump himself was touting talks with Japan because there are two competing voices on Trump's shoulders. No, not angel and devil. More like a polished operator and a nudnik. And the latest indications were that the more piercingly pro tariff voice the nudnik was beginning to grate. That voice belongs to Howard Lutnick. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant's assessment was ascendant. Wall street believed, or wanted to believe in the battle between it is not a negotiating ploy. That's Commerce Secretary Lutnick. And of course we're open to talks with our trading partners. That's Treasury Secretary Besant. Besant message was gaining steam Here he was on CNBC this morning.

[Unnamed Analyst]

He had a view on after Liberation Day that we should go into quiet mode and let our partners think about the kind of the shock and awe that he presented. And over those following few days, from April 2, we had the I think we're up to 70 countries contact the White House for how to come and negotiate. So, you know, I would say that the negotiations are the result of the massive inflow of inbound calls to come and negotiate.

[Mike Pesca]

And that's a good thing, right? By contrast, here was Lutnick on CNN a few days ago, weighing in on the prospects of negotiation.

[Howard Lutnick]

This stuff has got to stop. America's got to stop being exploited and you're going to see America prosper. And then, and only then will Donald Trump make a deal with each country. When they've really, really changed their ways. Then it sounds like he might back.

[Devin Archer]

Off down the road, but not back off.

[Howard Lutnick]

And that's not back off. That is let the dealmaker make his deals when and only if these countries can change everything about themselves, which I.

[Devin Archer]

Doubt they will, because he is willing to negotiate then.

[Mike Pesca]

So he is willing to negotiate with these countries right now or if they decide to.

[Howard Lutnick]

Look, no talking, doing. These countries have abused us and exploited us. As he said yesterday, they need to change their ways.

[Devin Archer]

All right, let me follow up a bit.

[Howard Lutnick]

See them change their ways. It's going to be a long time. Let's see what they do.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, that's more than a bad thing. Lutnick made it seem like negotiation was impossible. But I think Trump wants to negotiate. He wants to do a deal to move the needle and then take some credit. Also, Lutnick, who is a recognizable New York character, to me he's a nudge. I think he might embarrass Trump. TV is a cool medium, after all. And Lutnicks, he's not too cool. He's kind of agitated. Nobody in the administration seems to like him. The Wall Street Journal ran a hit piece today, title, lutnick Strategy Flummoxes Business leaders and White House aides. And just days earlier, Political ran a more raggedy sourced but sharper version. Quote, lutnick is a new voice at the table pushing crazy shit, said one person familiar with the situation. I don't know anyone that isn't pissed off at him. Trump's orbit is ready to play the blame game if things go poorly. And all the fingers will be pointing at Lutnick. So says Politico, and so say I. That game seems to be already afoot. And Lutnick is about to be assailed. On the show. Today we have the rest of our Devin Archer interview. Devin Archer was an international businessman who brought an addicted Hunter Biden into his deal with a Ukrainian natural gas firm. It's called Burisma. Perhaps you've heard of it. Then the firm made international news by announcing Hunter as a board member. That was at the same time that Joe Biden was put in charge of rooting out corruption as Barack Obama's vice president. So the context is you should know there are very, very, very few uncorrupt companies in Ukraine. But Devon Archer wasn't completely aware of that, he says, and he was about to be blindsided by the confluence of corruption, foreign and domestic and sharp elbowed politics, foreign and domestic. Up next, Devin Archer takes us through his split with Hunter, his legal troubles, his status as a Biden family irritant and his just last week presidential pardon. Devin Archer, up next.

[Devin Archer]

Foreign.

[Mike Pesca]

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[Devin Archer]

Devin at some point. I'm in. I'm in the White House with my son, okay. And we're doing a paper mache project, right. For his. I think he was 8 years old at the time. And it was. The vice president was like, comment. And he was describing his project. He has a little tweed blazer on, is very cute. And. And they have a great interaction. And someone. Hunter or someone posted the video or posted some pictures or. I don't know if they posted the pictures or sent them to Vadim or something like that. And there's like a picture of, you know, my son's obviously at my waist, and it's me and the vice president, and I'm on the board of Burisma. Barisma immediately takes that picture and posts that to their website, right? So it's like Devin and the vice president in the White House. He's our board member. And it was quickly taken down, but not before the media got it. And we were in. I remember because we were in Doha at another, you know, economic council boondoggle with one of the young princes. And. And basically it just blew up. It was like the most Googled news story for 18 hours to be.

[Mike Pesca]

I just want to be clear and obvious. The reason that this is a scandal or a mini scandal is you have the vice president, United States, Joe Biden, at this time was tasked with rooting out corruption in Ukraine. And was Burisma said to be a corrupt company or just a company run by a former oligarch in Ukraine?

[Devin Archer]

I think. Well, there was no, at the time, they were not to be corrupt. I mean, I don't know if there's a company in Ukraine that's not corrupt though, after.

[Mike Pesca]

And people who understood the situation then knew this. And so him being on the board and you being on the board of a company, a large company in a country that Joe Biden was in charge of rooting out corruption in is, as they say, not a good look.

[Devin Archer]

No, it wasn't a good look. It was a terrible look. And, you know, best, best laid plans. Again, there are a lot of, you know, things that happened in a row that were, you know, I said it in motion but you couldn't control it. And then, yeah, that's when it became so that, so they take that picture down and then basically the Russian, you know, the Russians do, you know, get, get their, their mitts into this. Obviously Breece was less of a threat. In actuality, the Baris only had one customer. Our customer was Ashramutal. So we, we were the biggest, you know, the biggest privately held gas producer in Ukraine, but we only sold commercially. So Cosmoni Gas was or not Kazmuni Gas, Nafta Gas, which is the state provider, provides all the retail gas and most, we sold all to Asimital and Mariupol. So for, you know, very, very energy intensive steel smelting and all their industrial business in the East.

[Mike Pesca]

So it's a monopsony situation.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, it was. Well, it was. It was. It was not. It was. Is that what a monopsony means when you only have one customer? That's what I got.

[Mike Pesca]

It's like the inverse of the monopoly.

[Devin Archer]

It wasn't a monopoly. So it was.

[Mike Pesca]

Your economist at Lake Cuomo did come up.

[Devin Archer]

I missed that lecture.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. That's all interesting.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

This doesn't look good, but I think that there's a leap from all of that to Burisma being a company that is under legitimate investigation for corruption. And the person who was supposed to be investigating that was the prosecutor at the time, Victor Shokin. Yes. Right. And Joe Biden is supposed, is supposed to be the person riding herd over the question of corruption in Ukraine.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

But I want to take this in parts. When you realize, when you are notified there's an APB out and so forth that Shokin is investigating Burisma. What internally within Burisma Is the conception of the Shokin investigation.

[Devin Archer]

They were strong with their language that we need to fix this, but they would certainly never. There was never. We did something wrong and we need to fix it. Right. There was no.

[Mike Pesca]

Like we need to handle this.

[Devin Archer]

We need to handle it. This is just noise. We need to.

[Mike Pesca]

Does handling it mean taking care of Shoken or neutralizing the investigation?

[Devin Archer]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

What does it mean?

[Devin Archer]

Yes. And this is where it gets crazy nuanced because, you know, it was. Yeah. We need to neutralize shock and we need to, we need to, you know, answer all those questions. And I believe that the main Shoken issue is tax related. Like it was. It was, it was a. It was a. I think that the heart of that issue was. Was a Nikolai Zulszewski tax issue related to brief. They weren't. He wasn't paying his share. Whether it was corporate tax or personal tax, I'm not really sure that tax system works. But that was like at the root of it, the corruption was in the fact that they weren't, you know, rewarding the government. Right, Right. And. And so we need to handle this. We need, you know, former ambassadors speaking well about barista. We need, we need the. We need more halo effect from the.

[Mike Pesca]

United States and it wasn't even. We just need compliance.

[Devin Archer]

No, no. Because we did nothing wrong. Obviously that's their, their position is we did nothing wrong.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Devin Archer]

Right. And we know.

[Mike Pesca]

What do you think now? Do you think they did or.

[Devin Archer]

I do. I think. I'm sure he didn't pay his taxes and I'm sure, you know, he's trying to make it go away.

[Mike Pesca]

Barisma. The board is legitimately worried about the Shokin investigation.

[Devin Archer]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

So this would IND that Shokin is not bought off or corrupt at this point.

[Devin Archer]

At this point. Right.

[Mike Pesca]

Ok. So it's important because I have heard you on your Tucker Carlson interview, I got a different impression that you said that internally Burisma viewed Shokin as taken care of.

[Devin Archer]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

Now what is that? I guess things change. But tell me what exactly that means that he was so.

[Devin Archer]

In the post op. So this is, this is. You have to understand the timeline is very, very. In the post op, Shokin gets fired and we're immediately. Maybe the next day say, oh, that's, you know, whether it was to just me or it was me Hunter. And you know, but to me the messaging was, oh, that was bad that Shokin got fired because I think they were thinking that. I think it was good in, in like actuality when you look back. But what they Were saying to me immediately after is, oh, we didn't want Shokin fired.

[Mike Pesca]

Who's the day? The Burisma officials.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, Vadim and the Burisma officials.

[Mike Pesca]

Were they lying to you?

[Devin Archer]

Yes, I think so.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Devin Archer]

I believe so.

[Mike Pesca]

They were saying, we didn't want Shokan.

[Devin Archer]

We already had taken. He was already taken care of.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, but you think they did want choke and fire.

[Devin Archer]

I do, in hindsight.

[Mike Pesca]

And that's what Joe Biden insisted on.

[Devin Archer]

Joe Biden insisted on. It's just too. I don't think the world is, you know, as. As complex as I think. It was just hidden in plain sight. Right. Or not even hidden in plain sight. It was in plain sight. I think that Shokin was a problem, and I think that he was fired because he was in the way of Brisman success.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Devin Archer]

And he was in the way of Solzhevsky and Zelchevsky had a lot of money and a lot of power. But I do think it was smart for them to, you know, hit me right away and say, oh, that was. That was not a good thing. Because they were like, oh, my God, he got fired.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Devin Archer]

Joe Biden said it. Said it publicly.

[Mike Pesca]

I want to dwell on this a little bit because this is a major component of. If there was corruption involved in what Joe Biden was doing. And we talk about how to define corruption. Here's a guy who is in charge of rooting out corruption in Ukraine. His son was working for a major Ukrainian firm that was under investigation. But at the time that they fired the prosecutor who the Atlanta Council and others were calling for being fired for being a corrupt prosecutor. And a lot of the maiden protesters.

[Devin Archer]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

Had called him as corrupt. And also the. His crackdown and killing people involved in the. Well, his crackdown on the maiden protest put him in bad stead with many democracy activists in Ukraine.

[Devin Archer]

He was a big enemy of the.

[Mike Pesca]

Big enemy of democracy activists.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

And Joe Biden was saying a big enemy of an anti corruption effort. I understand that's a double negative. He was corrupt. Right, Right. And because he wasn't properly investigating Burisma, that was a sign of his corruption in the Joe Biden framing of.

[Devin Archer]

Right, exactly.

[Mike Pesca]

The moment he was fired, if it was. If he was really a corrupt guy who was bought off by Burisma, you would have expected the Burisma people to say, the guy that we have in our pocket was fired.

[Devin Archer]

That's what they did say.

[Mike Pesca]

And that's what they did say. Now, was Hunter saying that, too?

[Devin Archer]

No.

[Mike Pesca]

No. Did Hunter know? Did Hunter and Your other part American partner.

[Devin Archer]

They knew he was fired. Right? There was big news because.

[Mike Pesca]

No, no. I mean, did they. Did Hunter have visibility into what the real arrangement with Shokin was?

[Devin Archer]

No, I don't think so.

[Mike Pesca]

No. Okay.

[Devin Archer]

I don't.

[Mike Pesca]

I mean, so that's interesting.

[Devin Archer]

I think. I think that it was. It was simpler than. I think Hunter probably advocated to his father that, you know, we need, you know, Barisma's great. This is a gravy train for the family. And. And then that dovetailed with the Atlanta Council and all of the, you know, the entire Democratic Party of Europe. Of Europe, who is kind of the. The backer and the NGOs of this. It dovetailed with, you know, this is a two birds with one stone. Everybody wants this guy fired. He's investigating Burisma. Let's just get him fired.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, but the investigation actually doesn't go away. I mean, with Shokin.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

It intensifies.

[Devin Archer]

It does not go away because they end up. And this is it. My tenure kind of passes after early 2016. But, yeah, then. Then they. Bruce men's up getting caught with another. The tax bribe in cash, which again, there's so much. There's so much nuance in this that. That whether Zulchevsky. That was like a setup. I mean, I've heard so many different.

[Mike Pesca]

But the Burisma people were saying, oh, shit, he's fired. Hunter was saying to you, oh, shit, he's fired. And you think that was all an act?

[Devin Archer]

I think that. Well, I think. Yeah, I do. In hindsight, I think it was an act.

[Mike Pesca]

But do you have no way of knowing?

[Devin Archer]

I have no way of knowing. No way of proving. I just see that it was.

[Mike Pesca]

You're kind of thinking about the stories and which story makes the most.

[Devin Archer]

Right. And I think. I think, like in that time, I think that though the investigations intensify into Burisma later on every month that they stay open, they're taking hundreds of millions of dollars out of the ground. Right.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

So. So the fact that, you know, and I said it earlier, like Zaleshevsky, I think did play, it was probably not as elegant as he thought it was going to turn out. But I think the brute force of having the vice president's son on his board let them kind of plow. You know, it's like some of those monster trucks that have the plow through the mud. Like, I think they got almost a full, you know, a full way across the field.

[Mike Pesca]

Did Hunter make money on that? Did you all make money on that? For the months they were open afterwards.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, well, yeah, because Hunter was paid. I think he was on the board until 2018 or 19.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

So every year that went on was another million dollars in salary. I think his salary was cut to 500.

[Mike Pesca]

Does Shogun seem like the guy, the kind of guy who could really bring an effective prosecution?

[Devin Archer]

I don't know the guy at all.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, No, I mean, just like his tenure. I'm trying to suss out there are two narratives. And I've said that. I have said that the idea, which is put forward by Giuliani and Trump, that the only reason the Chokin was fired was to protect Biden and Hunter Biden's interests. It may be true. Like, I can't prove it, but that's my point. You can't really prove it one way or another.

[Devin Archer]

No, I think, I think it's a.

[Mike Pesca]

And it's also plausible that he was fired just because all the democracy activists said the guy was corrupt, and the Atlantic Council said the guy was corrupt. And, you know, for years, publicly, people were saying he's corrupt, and no one disagreed with that.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

So it could be that he was fired because he was corrupt.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, but I mean, that's like, what's a good analogy? Like, saying, like, someone in Ukraine is corrupt. It's like, try and find someone who's not corrupt.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, but look at the administration problem isn't this particular action. The problem is that Hunter Biden is doing business in this intrinsically corrupt environment.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

And that Hunter. Hunter Biden's father is the guy in charge of rooting out corruption.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

No good can come of this corrupt morass.

[Devin Archer]

Exactly.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. And would you say that. I don't know. I understand what your. How you've come to view it, but could a reasonable person.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

I mean, do you think I'm being reasonable, saying that we can't prove that?

[Devin Archer]

No, I. Well, I can't prove it either. I mean, I do. I think that what I said, like, I, I do think it was a. It was an elegant dovetail. You had all this pressure from, I would say that the kind of think tank of Europe and the, the, you know, an apparatus for the Democratic Party in Europe is the Atlanta Council. Right. And the Atlantic Council was. You know, had their, Their, you know, their panties in a bunch in regards to this Shokin, you know, corruption. Right. And. And whether it was from Maidan or, I don't know, you know, who else he pissed off, but they, they're all pushing, so it's an easy. They're aligned with. Biden's aligned with them. The Democratic Party. Democrat Party is aligned with them. So it's easy. And also it's going to get. It's going to help relieve the pressure. We'll let you know. We'll give a Barisma of three or four more years before they get, you know, in trouble again or whatever.

[Mike Pesca]

Whatever.

[Devin Archer]

It's. With any unrest or changeover in that prosecutor, the, the continuity of that investigation definitely took a big stall. So. Right. It let that company get. So I think maybe there was two, you know, there's. There's two kind of pressure points that make it a lot easier to be very forceful and vocal about that guy. And, and holding this aid above, you know, above it. You know, I don't think it's. I don't think it was purely. I don't think Shogun was purely fired because of the investigation into Barisma, but I think that there was two very powerful, you know, two very powerful forces at play that made it a very easy decision to make it U.S. policy.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. It could be true for both reasons. And I know under the law, if there is a legitimate motivation and a corrupt motivation, that's still considered corruption. Let's put that out there.

[Devin Archer]

Ink in the water.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. So one of the charges, not literal, but charges against Joe Biden and if he benefited from Hunter's business dealings and you were Hunter's partner, or vice versa, one of the main ones is did he use his official powers as vice president to condition aid on firing the prosecutor? We've talked about that. The other was did he get money from Hunter's business dealings? Now, part of how we evaluate this is he and his spokesman Bates, flat out denied that he had anything to do with. With Hunter Biden's business. Hunter's doing whatever he's doing over there in Ukraine. He has nothing to do with it. But you are here and you told Congress that, what, 20 times or so you were with him.

[Devin Archer]

I think that's light.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, so tell me.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

How many times did he have calls in business meetings where it was clear that he was. Hunter was forefronting the fact that I am the vice president's son?

[Devin Archer]

Well, I think I said it initially and coined the term to the delight of Jordan Comer, that he was there? We were selling the Biden brand.

[Mike Pesca]

The brand.

[Devin Archer]

And Hunter was selling the Biden brand. We had an apparatus of a fund and a business that made money, whether it was in advisory, as I would kind of condition the Brief Society or investing. And Hunter's Role was to sell the Biden brand.

[Mike Pesca]

That is clear. If his name was Biden, it wouldn't exist. Interested in how much did Joe Biden participate and help Hunter sell the Biden brand besides 25 and giving him his last name?

[Devin Archer]

Well, I think it was. It was, you know, conference calls.

[Mike Pesca]

Tell me what would happen.

[Devin Archer]

Okay, tell me. We'd be at, you know, a particular instance. We're at. We're. We're talking to a French energy company in 2012. We're at dinner, and there's a view of the, you know, the Eiffel Tower. And, you know, Hunter would always talk to his dad every day. And the. The timing of that late dinner matched up with, like an evening at the Naval Observatory. And so Hunter, you know, calls his father. He doesn't pick up. His father calls back. He puts him on speaker right there.

[Mike Pesca]

At the business meeting. Doesn't step outside. Like, this is the point.

[Devin Archer]

Yes, this is the point.

[Mike Pesca]

And who is there to witness?

[Devin Archer]

The CEO of the energy company, myself, two other colleagues from Miami and Europe, and a Spanish individual in Venezuelan.

[Mike Pesca]

Something like this happened. How many times?

[Devin Archer]

How many times, like Joe Biden right.

[Mike Pesca]

There live on the phone.

[Devin Archer]

So I used 20 because I could. I actually did it before the testimony. I wrote down each time where I could I say, like, roughly the date within one week because I would reference my calendar. So I would say if it was 20 that I can remember, it was 50 plus 50.

[Mike Pesca]

And would he put Joe Biden on the phone with his business partners?

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, generally in speaker. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, so what would say, oh, dad, I'm with.

[Devin Archer]

Dad, I'm with, you know, Giuseppe. And it's great here. We're going to do a lot of great stuff in France. And, you know, I think, you know, France is a great ally.

[Mike Pesca]

And Joe Biden would say, hi, hello, Mr. Vice President.

[Devin Archer]

Mr. Vice President, it's an honor to speak to you and I hope you're taking care of my boy. And, you know, this is all great.

[Mike Pesca]

But it won't be great for much longer. Not for Hunter, not for Burisma, and certainly not for Devon Archer, as we will learn in the conclusion of our interview right after this break. So what Devin Archer has told us and what he, in fact, would go to tell a special committee looking into all of this, was that Hunter Biden was selling the Biden brand. Joe was helping Hunter. Hunter was using the halo, the aura of the Biden name, and none of that, I don't think the law doesn't think. Devin Archer doesn't think none of that is illegal. We should also note, and in the end of the interview, we'll get to this. There is no proof, going by the definition of proof, that Joe Biden benefited directly in cash or in loans or other financial considerations. Though some have looked into the claims and they say there is some evidence, though I would say it's not approved. Archer says the forensic accounting, that's not in his purview. But what he does know is that Joe Biden was not honest with the public. One notorious utterance struck him as an example of then presidential candidate Joe Biden allowing the rhetoric of political rebuttals to get in the way of the truth.

[Devin Archer]

The biggest, you know, tragedy of this whole thing is just that. And how they could have avoided is you just. The president, former president, just lied about his involvement. Right. I mean, he said in the debates in 2020, I mean, I had no involvement. I remember watching the debate. I'm like, just being like, oh, my God. Like, this is ridiculous. Like, I have no involvement. I had no idea about China.

[Mike Pesca]

My son has not made money in.

[Devin Archer]

Terms of this thing about.

[Mike Pesca]

What are you talking about?

[Devin Archer]

China. I have not had.

[Mike Pesca]

The only guy made money from China is this guy.

[Devin Archer]

He's the only one.

[Mike Pesca]

Nobody else has made money from China.

[Devin Archer]

He met these Chinese business partners, which is a whole nother subject, but he met Vadim for dinner twice at Cafe Milano.

[Mike Pesca]

You were there?

[Devin Archer]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, we were there. I mean, that was. It's. It's un.

[Mike Pesca]

And the Chinese were a different.

[Devin Archer]

That was in Beijing when Hunter and the vice president met with Xi and met with the BHR business partners. I mean, there's recently surfaced photos, probably before the. Just before the election.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

But, yeah, it is undeniable that. And I don't think that he would have had any nearly. You know, obviously the laptop caused a lot of it, too, but. But I don't. If he just was like, yes, I love and support my son, and I'll do anything outside of, you know, ink deals with him, and I don't exchange. Like, he could have taken a much different position.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, okay. You're saying he could have said, I love and support him and I support him in business and I help him trying to be successful, his mentor, but I know what the law is, and I stop at the line of the law there.

[Devin Archer]

That would have been perfect. But it's just nothing to do with it. I have nothing to do with it. I don't even know any of his business partners. I mean, I. I released a letter on The. The COVID of the post in 2023. It's like. It's a letter to me, and it says. I think the headline, we. You know, I think, sorry, letter of. No, letter of the lie. So it's like. It's like dear Devin, with my name spelled wrong. It's Devin Devon on the top, and the address is right. Then it says D, V, I, N. Dear Devin, I just, you know, I'm so sorry we didn't get to spend. I'm his business partner.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Devin Archer]

So think about those lines in 2020. I mean, this is from 2012 or something. I. I am his business partner. I know nothing about his business or his business dealings. It is. It is.

[Mike Pesca]

No. Okay, I want to break this down.

[Devin Archer]

Let me give you the letter.

[Mike Pesca]

So Devin is Hunter's business partner. If Joe Biden says I know nothing about his business dealings, why would Joe Biden write a letter to Hunter Biden's business partner saying Devin spelled wrong? It was. So sorry I didn't get to have lunch with you.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

I was dealing with Putin.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, no, not with Putin. Dealing with the President of China.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay. President of China. Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

I'm so sorry we didn't get to spend more time together. I was dealing with the President of China and he was so busy. But. And then, you know, whatever. Warmly Vice President Biden then in, like, handwriting. It's like, I am so glad that you guys are business partners.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

Like, I mean, it's. You're together, but it's. I mean, that is just. How can you have that. That line, that. That. Where. Where. Where President Trump confronts him in 2020 and then know in your past. And that's just one example. That's just like a tangible. Where, you know, obviously the phone calls, the conversations and the. Oh, this is a great opportunity for you. You know, all of that. Just put that aside. You have a. You have a. You know, a letter on presidential stationery, but apologizing for not spending more time talking about your business dealings because I'm inherently his business partner. So, you know, what else are we going to talk about? I mean, it's just. It's that. That's the part that, like, upsets me so much. And, you know, it's just. It just gives you a rotten feeling now for.

[Mike Pesca]

So you're not just someone watching the debates who knows things that are contradicting what the vice President is saying. You are in their sights and they feel that they could turn the screws on you because.

[Devin Archer]

Absolutely.

[Mike Pesca]

You have financial. Sorry, you have legal exposure because after all this Burisma stuff, you did another deal that went south. Yes, this around 2016.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah. So not enough. Burisman didn't go south. He did very well. Had a very good 10 year run. Yeah. But yes, this deal, this deal goes south. The deal goes south far before my involvement, which is a. And I'm not allowed to because I'm still, you know, in the process. I can't really divulge details on this because it's, you know, it's just a. It's an ongoing matter. It's something that's been going on for a decade of my life. It's, you know, sucked the life and.

[Mike Pesca]

So 2016, you some bonds to an Indian.

[Devin Archer]

This is 2014. Before.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, okay.

[Devin Archer]

Before I am involved in the company.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[Devin Archer]

But again, I can't.

[Mike Pesca]

I can't.

[Devin Archer]

So. So let's say there's this thing that happens that I have very little involvement in. Right. Other than joining the company later and being the chairman of the board. Hunter is the vice chairman of the board. I am. You know, there's, there's some activity that's suspicious. A whistleblower blows the whistle on Hunter's suspicious activity report. They get into this company and they find that a select group of, of individuals stole money from a bond issuance.

[Mike Pesca]

You, the judge said she had grave doubts about your guilt. Or maybe she said lack of intent. Yeah. She essentially said, I think he's innocent. But they let it go to the jury decision anyway. And then the jury found you guilty. And the judge said, no, this is improper. You're not guilty. But then the appeals court retroactively found you guilty and then the Supreme Court didn't bring it.

[Devin Archer]

Correct.

[Mike Pesca]

That's about where we are.

[Devin Archer]

It's about it. The only, the nuance is that the jury decision came and then the judge filed the Rule 33.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay, so. And there's still, Is there still any. Aside from presidential pardons or anything like that, is there still some legal avenue by which you will be found not guilty of this?

[Devin Archer]

No, there's.

[Mike Pesca]

No.

[Devin Archer]

No, that's done.

[Mike Pesca]

So have you served time? What do you know?

[Devin Archer]

I'm, I have, I'm cooperating on other cases and I have another hearing that we scheduled some. Somewhere.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

In 20.

[Mike Pesca]

Going in to talk to Colmer and talking to the House Oversight Committee. You got credit for that? Co op.

[Devin Archer]

Actually don't get credit for congressional testimony. But I think it's, I think it was, I just, you know, I felt like it was an important thing to do as a patriot and to help.

[Mike Pesca]

But for every bit of credit you get or don't get officially, do you think you're being punished by the parts of the government that are resentful of what you're saying now?

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, I think it was a very, I mean, I think it was a very difficult. I've made it through the gauntlet in a lot of sense. I mean, my life is not going to be as bad as, you know, I initially kind of thought in some of the darkest periods there while Biden was in office, when I, when I went to testify, when I agreed to testify and just tell the truth, you know. Inspired by the House. Yeah, to the House. Inspired by Tony Bobulinski, for instance. Who did it in 2020? I wish I did in 2020 though. I think we're in a better place now that we're, you know, this happened in this order and everything happens for a reason. But there was some regret about not doing that in the last election when I was listening to this guy debate and just lie about me and our relationship and any interactions that we've ever had. So I felt passionate. You know, my, my, my loyalties were not long there. And so during the Biden administration, it was terrifying. One particular example is I was, I agreed to testify to Congress and coined the Biden brand and all these things that basically became fodder for, you know, weakened at Biden's. The, the, the, the balance of kind of the run up to him dropping out. They try on a Saturday. They tried to send me to prison on Saturday, the Monday before I testified. Yeah. Which is just, I mean, like if you've ever seen like, like a lawfare intimidation tactic, beyond that, I don't know. I have a family of, you know, three kids, 17, 12 and 10, a wife and you know, a home and have no ill gotten gains. Never made a dollar on this, lost everything. And they're trying to, trying to intimidate me not to testify to Congress by sending me to prison. I mean, it's, it's. And then since then my sentence has been vacated. The, the case has been adjourned to mid-2025. As I said, I'm cooperating some other cases, but it's, it was, it was incredibly scary and you know, on eggshells, that entire, you know, that entire administration really like a year and I said the last three, three years of Biden's administration, I was just, you know, looking over my shoulder at every corner because his, you know, his doj, which had, you know, worked very closely with, with him As a vice president, to initially move Hunter out and move me in was now had. You know, I didn't. I would say, like, was it scary to have Biden's fingers, Hunter out of the original case?

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, I see.

[Devin Archer]

Yes. So he's the vice chairman. I'm the chairman. He's the one investigating. Somehow I become the fall guy.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay. This is. And this is what you are. This is the theory of why they're targeting you. It wasn't anything you said publicly about your business dealings or burisma. It was that you and Hunter were both involved in this case, and they took the focus off of him, and they needed a fall guy, and it was you.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mike Pesca]

That's it.

[Devin Archer]

That's it.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

And. And. But what I.

[Mike Pesca]

He wasn't. Hunter wasn't mad at you. You hadn't caused the. You hadn't caused Joe Biden any political problem. You were quiet.

[Devin Archer]

He just wanted to. To, obviously, as you see how they take care of their family. Their. Their family first, you know, they. Part of the entire family, you know, retroactively for God knows what. Yeah, but it just begs the question, God knows what. Yeah, And. But I used to. So I spent four years, really, three of the last four years, where I was like, wait, these guys are actually really not on my side.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

And maybe they're overtly trying to really enforce me. So it was the enforcement during his presidency and having his two, you know, say he had his finger on the nuclear button is two hands on the DOJ keyboard. And I was, like, terrified at every moment that they would try and, you know, act to enforce me to go to prison or, you know, put liens on my homes and, you know, all for a case in which the trial judge spent six weeks and exonerated me on grounds of innocence.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. That's important to note. It is somewhat flummoxing to me or somewhat confusing to me that the motivation really was to prosecute this. This bond case. It wasn't to silence anyone politically like you. You weren't saying anything politically. It wasn't to embarrass some. There were no political motivations originally. They wanted a prosecution.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

On this bond case.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

I think it was going to be Hunter, you're saying, and then Hunter threw off whatever suspicion or target onto you.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but there certainly was a crime. I mean, there was. There was. There was money still. There was misappropriated funds from a bond issuance that I'm sure that they thought they were gonna be able to work their Way out of, like, any Ponzi scheme or whatever. But. But at the end of the day, he was as innocent and unaware of this activity as I was. So it's.

[Mike Pesca]

Does it come down to, like, when you become chairman or vice chairman, you sign something that says all legal liability beforehand accrues to you?

[Devin Archer]

Yeah. Was it. Yeah, I mean, I think that I was, you know, I was the chairman of. I was, like, moved in. I'd sold Rosemont Realty 8-31-15. I didn't even have boxes unpacked in the office that I was taking at this company.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

The crime period was somewhere in 2014. So.

[Mike Pesca]

And this is totally. I assume this is totally quashed your ability to do business, Right?

[Devin Archer]

Exactly. It's financial crude led, you know, financial ruin. And I've, you know, been slogging through this case. If I, If I felt that I was any way guilty.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

I would have taken 300 hours of community service. Like Hugh Dunkerley, the guy whose name.

[Mike Pesca]

Was on the case.

[Devin Archer]

That's the guy whose name was on the case, got 300 hours of community service.

[Mike Pesca]

What have you learned about the pardon process?

[Devin Archer]

What have I learned about the. I think the partner is like. It's like joining a country club. You know, you have a nominator and you have to flood the zone with as many people as possible, just trying to get your character attestations, that sort of station. So. So a first in a lot of, you know, a lot of different.

[Mike Pesca]

But you're working with lawyers, right?

[Devin Archer]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Are they guiding you through it? Or they're saying, here, here are the steps, or are there. Are there really steps? I know, because the question is, I know that there is like some official Department of Justice. They look over it. Yet when we hear about pardons, it's always a flood at the last minute, and it seems to be motivated by something other than the Department of Justice assiduously looking over it. So what have you learned about how it really happens?

[Devin Archer]

I think there are people that are, whether it's policymakers or influencers in the media, it's really about getting your story out there. Very narrow cast into decision makers. But it's one of the great authorities that I think in our democracy that's been bestowed upon the president. If you can submit. I submit a lot of memos, you know, that. That kind of explain and re. Explain and to explain, you know, to get to the, The. The Oval.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think none of this would have happened if after that first lunch with Hunter Biden, you said you Know what? I'm just not feeling it.

[Devin Archer]

I. Absolutely. It's. It is. You know, you're not supposed to go through life with regrets, but it is the single biggest regret in my life.

[Mike Pesca]

Ever going into business.

[Devin Archer]

Ever going into business. It's an absolute. It's been an absolute colossal, you know, train wreck in regards to. He was kryptonite to nearly every business that he got involved with. I don't want to get into all that, but, you know, all of the kind of where. Where you. You know, it gave Barisma kind of this. This pat, this staying power to just, you know, milk the gas out of the ground for probably a few more years than they would have. But, you know, and everything else that he touched, it was, you know, his epic failures.

[Mike Pesca]

How much of that do you think is attributed to his addiction as opposed to his character or just how he does business? If he were said, Beau was a great guy.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah, Bo is a great. I think. I think addiction play. I think that there were a lot of points that if he was. Remained sober, you know, through the early 2000, you know, 2012, 13, like that. That we. That is, if his head was on straight, that we would have been able to. Yeah, I think that there were. There were a lot of decisions that were made on his part and his father's part that wouldn't have been made if he wasn't kind of forcing the issue.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

Playing too close to the line and.

[Mike Pesca]

Your collateral damage and the wreckage that is addiction. But also other things. It does seem like he had. Or the family or maybe just him had a bit of a playbook, and the playbook wasn't strictly an ethical one. Even if he was in. Yeah, if he was in his right mind.

[Devin Archer]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

It's hard.

[Devin Archer]

I mean, how can. How can. You know, I just think that the. Yeah. The addiction certainly added fuel nitrous to the. To the. To the. To the fire pit.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

Right. Was there.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think that there's anything inherent about the business that you were in? Because, you know, you're dealing with oligarchs, you're dealing with situations. This is how you make money. Situations that. Look, if you want to have a bond that pays 3%, we could all do that. But, you know, you take risks, you take on risk, you assess risk. So is there anything about your risk assessment, independent of Hunter, that you look back on and question?

[Devin Archer]

You have to understand that we were dealing with oligarchs when everyone in our. All of the captains of our financial industry recording the same folks.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[Devin Archer]

And we cut it off right after March 4th. Right. And aligned around Ukraine. I don't think there's a. There's a risk decision that I would have made that would have been different. The only risk that I wouldn't have taken was thinking that Hunter Biden would be some type of asset.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, yeah. You're going to think I'm doing the Colombo thing. One last thing, but I did forget this. Tell me what 10% to the big guy meant to you.

[Devin Archer]

10% equity to the Big guy? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Mike Pesca]

What did that.

[Devin Archer]

You know, we promised him he's going to get 10% of the equity.

[Mike Pesca]

So when I. Just fill me in on the details.

[Devin Archer]

Of that 10% of the big guy was in the CFC deal. Hunter was like, okay, you got to reserve 10% for my father. That's pretty much what it was.

[Mike Pesca]

Is there. There's no ambiguity as to what that could mean? No, no.

[Devin Archer]

Zero.

[Mike Pesca]

When you saw it. Well, when you first heard about it, did you know?

[Devin Archer]

Yes.

[Mike Pesca]

That goes to Joe Biden.

[Devin Archer]

Yes, yes, 100%.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[Devin Archer]

There's no ambiguity. I mean, there's no. It's not going to hold up in court of law. It's all hearsay. But it was absolutely a 10% share of the equity and whatever they were going to do for Joe Biden.

[Mike Pesca]

And I think that is more of a direct connection to Joe Biden's pocketbook than anything else. I mean, it's not direct, but that's the one sentence that would indicate that Joe Biden got money from this.

[Devin Archer]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

Why would he say it, though, if he's never said it before, if he knows. Well, I think everything else at an arm's length.

[Devin Archer]

I don't think the. I think it was 10%. I have to reference what particular quote, but I think it was 10% of equity.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Devin Archer]

Which was like. Like in anything there was, you know. Yeah. I'll give you 10 of that. And then very rarely does it manifest.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, I get it. But he knows not to. Hunter knows not to ever imply that his dad is making money directly from this. Why was this the exception?

[Devin Archer]

Well, I think his dad, if I remember, time his dad was out of office. Okay, so there you go. So I think he got a little looser with. With the. What was actually happening. Right. And yeah, I think that was really. And also I think he was. He got a little bit more reckless with his language as kind of addiction took over.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, okay. Those plausible explanations. Hey, Devin Archer. I want to thank you for your considerable amount of time. Thank you for coming in.

[Devin Archer]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

[Mike Pesca]

And that's it for today's show. The gist is produced by Cory Warra. Michelle Pesca is COO of Peach Fish Productions. And Leo Baum is sometimes around to be an intern, but he's also rehearsing for the variety show, which is very important. Improve, and thanks for listening.