The Gist: The Dutch Once Owned This Isle Hosted by Mike Pesca | Produced by Peach Fish Productions | Released on March 17, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca delves into a fascinating chapter of American history: the brief Dutch control over what is now New York City. Joining him is esteemed historian Russell Shorto, known for his insightful exploration of New York’s rich past. Together, they unravel the complexities of 17th-century colonial politics, the clash between Dutch and English ambitions, and the broader implications for modern political discourse.

Historical Context: The Fall of New Amsterdam

[00:00 - 09:02]
The episode begins with a brief introduction and a promotional segment for Pesca's subscription service, Pesca Plus, highlighting bonus features and extended content for subscribers.

[09:02 - 17:53]
Mike Pesca and Russell Shorto discuss the takeover of New Amsterdam by the English in 1664. Shorto introduces Richard Nichols, the English commander tasked with capturing the Dutch colony without unnecessary bloodshed. Unlike the often brutal conquests of the era, Nichols sought a more diplomatic approach, ultimately negotiating the peaceful transfer of the colony. This act of prudence preserved the vibrant, multicultural community of New Amsterdam, laying the groundwork for what would become New York City.

Notable Quote:
Russell Shorto reflects on Nichols’ approach:

“…it reads much more like a bill of rights. It says, you Dutch…we promise you, we'll keep your homes, you'll keep your families, your businesses…freedom of religion.”
[22:25]

DEI and Political Analogies

[17:53 - 27:56]
Pesca transitions into a contemporary analysis, drawing parallels between the historical event and modern political debates surrounding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). He criticizes current efforts to dismantle DEI initiatives, arguing that such actions often result in the destruction of beneficial programs. Pesca posits that, much like the Dutch, today's liberals must carefully calibrate DEI initiatives to prevent extremist ideologies from taking root.

Notable Quote:
Pesca warns about the consequences of neglecting DEI:

“If liberals won't correctly calibrate DEI, racists will.”
[05:48]

Insights on Leadership and Negotiation

[27:14 - 33:23]
Russell Shorto elaborates on the leadership styles of Richard Nichols and Peter Stuyvesant, the Dutch governor of New Amsterdam. He emphasizes Nichols’ strategic negotiation skills, which avoided unnecessary conflict and preserved the colony's prosperity. Shorto contrasts this with the often adversarial nature of modern politics, advocating for a more nuanced and diplomatic approach to leadership.

Notable Quote:
Shorto on the essence of politics:

“You find some common ground and you build on that.”
[19:37]

Modern Implications: War, Politics, and Rhetoric

[33:23 - End]
The conversation shifts to contemporary foreign policy, specifically U.S. military actions against the Houthis in Yemen. Pesca critiques the Trump administration's aggressive rhetoric and actions compared to the more cautious approach of the Obama administration. He reflects on the lasting impacts of leadership styles on conflict outcomes, using the historical narrative as a lens to understand current events.

Notable Quote:
Pesca on Trump's approach:

“The Trump administration talks and acts with much feck, a bushel and a peck of feck, and he won't be scared to fucking tell you so.”
[30:56]

Conclusion

Mike Pesca and Russell Shorto conclude the episode by highlighting the enduring significance of historical events in shaping modern sociopolitical landscapes. They underscore the importance of thoughtful leadership and the dangers of extreme partisanship, drawing lessons from the peaceful transfer of New Amsterdam as a blueprint for contemporary governance.

Final Thought:
Shorto encapsulates the episode’s theme:

“It's not inevitable that the English would take this from the Dutch…you’ve got two enemies facing each other down…they both do what you're supposed to.”
[20:47]

Key Takeaways

1. Historical Prudence: Richard Nichols’ diplomatic approach in 1664 prevented unnecessary bloodshed and preserved the multicultural fabric of New Amsterdam, showcasing the power of negotiation over conflict.

2. Modern Parallels: The episode draws connections between 17th-century colonial politics and today’s debates on DEI, emphasizing the need for balanced and inclusive policies to prevent extremist ideologies from gaining traction.

3. Leadership Styles: Effective leadership, as demonstrated by both Nichols and Stuyvesant, relies on understanding and prioritizing the well-being of the community over rigid adherence to external directives.

4. Political Rhetoric: The discussion critiques contemporary political rhetoric, particularly the aggressive stance taken by the Trump administration, and advocates for a more measured and strategic approach to both domestic and foreign policy.

5. Lessons for Today: By examining historical events, listeners are encouraged to reflect on the importance of diplomacy, inclusivity, and thoughtful policy-making in today’s polarized political climate.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Russell Shorto [22:25]:
  “…it reads much more like a bill of rights. It says, you Dutch…we promise you, we'll keep your homes, you'll keep your families, your businesses…freedom of religion.”

• Mike Pesca [05:48]:
  “If liberals won't correctly calibrate DEI, racists will.”

• Russell Shorto [19:37]:
  “You find some common ground and you build on that.”

• Mike Pesca [30:56]:
  “The Trump administration talks and acts with much feck, a bushel and a peck of feck, and he won't be scared to fucking tell you so.”

• Russell Shorto [20:47]:
  “It's not inevitable that the English would take this from the Dutch…you’ve got two enemies facing each other down…they both do what you're supposed to.”

This episode of The Gist masterfully intertwines historical analysis with contemporary political commentary, offering listeners a rich tapestry of insights into both the past and present. Through the lens of New Amsterdam’s transfer, Pesca and Shorto illuminate enduring truths about leadership, negotiation, and the ever-evolving dynamics of power and policy.