Bill Stevenson or Stone Balloon Representative (4:34)

Bill Stevenson standing here in front of the Stone Balloon on this great May afternoon, Monday right through Saturday night, we have entertainment here in downtown Newark. And the good thing is a lot of people don't realize that the Stone Balloon is open during the daytime. We're open from 11 o' clock right until 1am Every day of the week except Sunday. We have some great video games in the afternoon. So if you get off of work sometime around 4:35 o', clock, stop by. We have some beautiful afternoons here at the Stone Balloon for sitting out on the outside patio bar which is open up every afternoon. And now we have some limited food such as hot dogs and chili and some things like that take advantage of it. We have the entertainment every night, Monday right through Saturday. But we also have some great afternoons right here in downtown Newark at the Stone Balloon.

Mike Pesca (5:15)

Stop on by and visit us on the show today. It is a spiel about the Epstein files where I'll give you some facts, but I'm also going to try to perhaps orient you or at least tell you about how how I look at these files. But first, David Green is back. He is the former NPR host. He's also the host of Left, Right and Center currently, and he's the host of a new podcast that we're talking about. David Green is obsessed. Today we talk about. He might call it his sideline, but if I know how these things work, the project that is going to overwhelm him David Green has bought a newspaper. Details breaking up next. So building a wardrobe takes the right kind of balsa or perhaps oak. But actually I speak not of the physical construct. I speak of the concept of a suite of clothes. I'm learning this as I age, and quince is helping me. They have everyday essentials with quality that lasts organic cotton sweaters, lighter jackets that keep you warm in the changing seasons, and polos for every occasion. Except, and this was weird Polo. You should not actually wait. I'm being told you can play polo in their polos. It was a situation like Acme earthquake pills that asterisk do not work on roadrunners. And I thought that was the same with the quince polos.

David Green (6:47)

But.

Mike Pesca (6:47)

But no, I'm wrong. Polos actually for every occasion. And that's good because I own quince polos and I've never played polo, but I've worn them quite casually and, you know, to a place that says we prefer a collared shirt and not only do they qualify, no one will be squinting at you like you got away with anything. That is how nice my quince polo is. Refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com/the gist for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com/the gist. Free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/the gist the Gist is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save Hundreds of Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

The RealReal Representative (7:53)

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Mike Pesca (8:57)

David Green, a longtime public radio host with a great voice, a great eye for news, a great interest in the human condition, is the host of the podcast. David Green is obsessed. Now, one of his obsessions, or at least his life work, is clearly journalism. And yet I had to note as I was speaking to David Green that I don't know if this is the act of an obsessive or the act of an insane person. But you, sir, you bought a newspaper, you looked at the economic landscape and you said, newspapers, that's the future. Am I getting that right?

David Green (9:34)

Not exactly that. I mean, but very close. Yeah. My hometown paper here, where I am now in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, was really at a tough moment. There were a lot of questions about whether bankruptcy might be an option, restructuring. I think there was a chance that a lot of jobs would be lost. And yeah, there was a public radio station here in Pennsylvania that was the parent company, and they realized that they weren't able to advance their mission when, with the newspaper and the public radio station working together. And so one option became starting a brand new nonprofit in Lancaster, which is what I did, and acquired the asset. So me buying a newspaper, not exactly what happened. It's starting a new nonprofit that has taken over the newspaper. But, you know, we save jobs and, you know, there's been evidence that, you know, in this really, really harsh marketplace for newspapers, the way to evolve and become more digital and, you know, really innovate is to, to bring in philanthropy and to become a nonprofit. So we're trying it here in Lancaster and I'm, I'm really excited. But Mike, I will tell you, it is, it is a lot of work and it's, you know, you and I sat through all staff meetings back in the day when we were at npr. And now to be on the other side of that and looking at a room full of people who, you know, their futures depend on, on me and our leadership team. It's. It's a whole different thing. But I've been really, it's. I, it's been crazy, but, but worth it. And I hope we're doing something really special.

Mike Pesca (11:04)

How big?

Interviewer (11:04)

What's the name of the paper?

David Green (11:06)

LNP and Lancaster Online. So it's we, we still, we print seven days a week and we are now a new nonprofit. Nonprofit newsroom for the first time.

Mike Pesca (11:17)

It's.

David Green (11:18)

The paper's been in Lancaster in some form for more than 230 years. So I was not ready to let that tradition go away.

Mike Pesca (11:25)

So just lnp.

Interviewer (11:26)

It's not the Lancaster Patriot, the Lancaster Ledger, lnp.

Mike Pesca (11:29)

It's like a KFC thing. Does it stand for anything?

David Green (11:32)

It's. It. LNP stood for Lancaster Newspapers. The paper is now lnp. Yeah, we're considering, we're considering a rebrand for the future. Stay tuned. But yeah, it used to be. There used to be three papers. I interned at the Sunday News, which was one of the three papers that were part of the, the LNP family. And then the, the Lancaster New Era and the Intelligencer Journals. There were three papers. There's a quite a tradition. The papers were owned by the same family, the Steinman family, but they competed against each other. So when I was at Sunday News, I was told not to come full circle. But when you went to the bathroom, you were sharing a bathroom with reporters from the other two papers. And since we only came out once a week, if you were like in a stall doing a call with a source, talking about some big project you were doing, you know, your story could be stolen by one of the daily papers. So another reason, another reason to have privacy when you use this.

Mike Pesca (12:26)

Most of their scoops.

Interviewer (12:26)

Yeah.

Mike Pesca (12:27)

So the lnp, I bet the, the Intelligencer one was also.

Interviewer (12:31)

Was it the Tribune Intelligencer, said the News Intelligencer, that Intelligence Journal, yeah. That name tells me that it was the product of consolidation at one point as well. So it seems like this newspaper has gone through a lot of the newspapery trends, which was that consolidation and three operating under one roof to save costs. You know, you find this in many newspapers and you can tell by the name the Post Intelligencer or the Atlanta Journal Constitution. They were once all separate newspapers. And then when public radio station buys it, this was the trend of newsrooms going belly up and then public radio stations having some ballast coming in, absorbing the newsrooms. This happened with the Boston Globe and wbur.

Mike Pesca (13:10)

But none of these are, I'm not.

Interviewer (13:12)

Even going to say successful. They've proven not to be sustainable. And the question is why? Is it anything that these older forms of media haven't been adept enough at, or is it just, you know, the lore of TikTok social media and our lifestyles now are antithetical to a print newspaper or even engaging online with a newspaper, do you think?

David Green (13:37)

I think it's really, I mean, it's a couple things. It's like the, the, the, the, the top line reality for legacy newspapers is, you know, for a long time, subscription revenue and advertising revenue were just enough to sustain. That all went away. We know that we saw papers dying and suffering. And you need a third leg of the st philanthropy, which I think it was very enticing to then say, you know, in some, in some communities, let's join with a public radio station that has known philanthropy for a long time. And that seemed like a really good solution. You know, you see that in Chicago, you know, you see it elsewhere. It's a really hard thing to bring together two cultures. I mean, you and I know, like the public broadcasting, public radio landscape and all the traditions and kind of the way you do business in public radio has. That has been tried and true for a long time, but it's a hard culture to break into. And so that's a marriage that is just not going to work every time. And so I think that you look at places like the Baltimore Banner, which is a new digital operation in Baltimore. They've grown up and are doing incredible things. The Salt Lake Tribune, proud tradition in Salt Lake City. But to go from a for profit newspaper to a nonprofit on its own, they've been able to build up philanthropy. And I think that's the reality. We came to here like these two institutions, both important to the community, both, you know, wanting to tap into that philanthropic pool, but doing it as friends, I would say, as opposed to family, was, Was probably best for both.

Mike Pesca (15:10)

Yeah.

Interviewer (15:10)

And there's the state's news service, which is a collection of a bunch of papers. I read the Minnesota Reformer about what's going on. They're a great source about what's going on in Minnesota, and I think the Banner is part of that. But I wonder if you're not able, or if an entity is not able to sustain itself. I mean, we just saw with npr, if you are a nonprofit, there's the government, the, the prospect of government funding being yanked away from you. And then even if you're a nonprofit, you still are affected by, you know, macroeconomic trends, which includes readership and revenue. So I know you want this to work and you think it can, but it does seem, but you tell me, compared to other sources of news dissemination, it does seem to have headwinds. Make the case that this is the best use of resources for some reason other than a nostalgia play and the fact that we both love newspapers.

David Green (16:09)

Well, I would say it's a nostalgia play only in that the tradition of vibrant local journalism is important. If you allow the nostalgia to stand in the way of innovating and stand in the way of figuring out how to connect with audiences for the next 50, 100, 200 years, then you're making a huge mistake and it's a recipe for disaster. And so we have people here in Lancaster who are still reading a print newspaper seven days a week and they are going to get that print newspaper seven days a week next week. That said, 10 years from now, we need to not be spending nearly as much money on print production costs. So we need to literally shrink down what it costs to run this company because it's much cheaper to be a digital organization and we need to give people the feeling of value that that digital service is going to serve them day in and day out. So that means, you know, bringing trust back among people who have lost trust in, in a news organization. It means making people feel like they own this entity and that it is important for them to be involved in this civic institution, for them to be good citizens. And so it's changing the model. So less, less cost because you're not producing a print product. It's convincing people that, like, it's not just about subscriptions, it's about feeling like they own this. And so, you know, they're giving and contributing to the extent that they can. And it's building a sustainable model that is tapping into the dreams and desires of younger generations. It's like, I don't want us to compete with social media when it comes to how people get their news. I want to be meeting 18 year olds where they are now and where they will be in 10, 15, 20 years and creating a product that they want to experience every single day and consume the news and consume information and feel connected to their community. And so nostalgia. Yes, but if that nostalgia stands in the way of innovating, then we're insane.

Interviewer (18:08)

Is it a union shop?

David Green (18:09)

It is.

Interviewer (18:10)

And do you work well with the union?

Mike Pesca (18:12)

Is that a challenge?

David Green (18:15)

And I mean, it certainly could be a challenge if we're not serving them. So far it has been a wonderful relationship and I actually am incredibly grateful because, you know, the union signed a new collective bargaining agreement just months before we acquired the assets and started this new nonprofit. So the first commitment we made to the union was we are honoring the current cba. We're excited to work with you, and it's been great so far. And believe me that that relationship is probably the most important relationship that I think we're going to have as we go forward.

Mike Pesca (18:46)

I hope they would appreciate you having.

Interviewer (18:48)

Saved their jobs at some level.

David Green (18:50)

I. And that's the argument that we've made. And so far, there seems to be a recognition of that, that this could have been, you know, a job killer. And, you know, we hope that we've gotten to a place where we're building something sustainable with this nonprofit model that will protect jobs and build something for the future that. That we'll all be really proud of. And that's. That's the. That's the path we're going down.

Interviewer (19:12)

How many journalists do you employ there?

David Green (19:15)

It's a little over 100 people in the newsrooms, over 50. That's a big operation.

Interviewer (19:20)

Is it easier to convince public radio types or newspaper types to change their ways?

David Green (19:26)

Huh? Wow, Mike, that's a really good question. I don't know. I think it's. I would say, I don't know if there's an easy way to answer that definitively. I think you and I were in a public radio newsroom for years, and that is certainly a place where people get stuck in their ways, and it's hard to push innovation. I don't know. I will say, in this newsroom, I mean, this is a legacy newspaper that is full of journalists who are really excited about building something new and trying new things. And when we've talked about kind of combining the new and the old and podcast, video, digital, I've heard nothing but openness and excitement. And so I've really appreciated that. But I think the risk that you're identifying is so real because in this culture, both in newspapers and in public broadcasting, pushing innovation is always a challenge and not going to run away from that.

Interviewer (20:37)

If there was a young person who came to you, maybe your young person.

Mike Pesca (20:42)

As my young people, my young person.

Interviewer (20:44)

Has come to me, and my oldest son wrote for the newspaper and such and was interested in nonfiction, was interested in, like, let's just define it as accurately describing the world, would you encourage that person or dissuade him from newspapering, radio, podcasting?

David Green (21:05)

I would encourage them to try all of it, but also to make sure that they were understanding what young audiences will want. Want now and will want in 10, 15 years and make sure they're honing their skills and not limiting themselves. I would never encourage someone to get into a world right now where you are just writing stories that are going to show up in print. I mean, if you're growing up in the world today and you're interested in nonfiction and being in this business, I mean, what I would say is, are you game to learn how to be on a camera? Are you game to learn audio storytelling and narrative storytelling? Are you game to learn how to write? Are you game to try all of those things? And are you game to learn about what not just content looks and feels like, but, like, how people want it delivered? I mean, the more I talk to younger people, it's like they want to choose your own adventure every day. They want to have like, you know, an app or a product that is very similar to like a TikTok or an Instagram or a YouTube where it's like I get to pick and choose where I want to go deep, where I don't want to go deep. I want to engage with other consumers. I mean, all of those things. It's like, if you're not understanding that kind of stuff, if you're entering this business, then I think you're really setting yourself back.

Interviewer (22:29)

So I think the biggest challenges with these media that we're talking about are for newspapers. I think there's a basic economic challenge. Unless you're the New York Times and maybe they've solved it via wordle and recipes, right? Maybe still with news, there is a basic challenge. I think with podcasting, discovery is so hard. I will tell you a little story. There is a guy I know who I like very much, and I always loved his work, and he did this.

Mike Pesca (22:55)

Series that I would be inherently interested.

Interviewer (22:57)

In, and I didn't even know about it until yesterday. In fact, the guy was you in this series was your Jim Dolan series.

Mike Pesca (23:04)

And I swear to God, it came out in 2023. I'm all over podcasts, and I did.

Interviewer (23:09)

Not know your series about the Knicks owner existed.

Mike Pesca (23:12)

And then with.

Interviewer (23:13)

And then with the world of, you know, let's call it radio or radio and whatever audio will become, there are a lot of challenges also involving funding and sustainability and it just going away. So do you think. Do you agree with me that those are the biggest challenges and how surmountable are they?

David Green (23:32)

I don't know. I mean, those are the biggest challenges. I. To me, the biggest challenge is not knowing what's next and investing too much in the now and not understanding.

Mike Pesca (23:45)

That's a good answer.

David Green (23:46)

Yeah. What 10 years is from now? Like, that. That's what I'm most afraid of. Like, I. I love podcasts and I love making public radio shows. Like, I love this show, Mike. I love. David Green is Obsessed. Like, I love it. You know, I have loved interviews my entire life, and I've always looked for ways to be entertaining but also connective and to reveal things in the people I'm speaking to that will surprise and delight and make people think. And I think the obsession theme truly gives that chance. You know, I have no idea how much, how many people are gonna love this show. I love it, and I want people to love it because I think it's an incredible opening for powerful human conversations that are really, really relatable. But in this industry, like, who the hell knows? And that's a really scary thing, and that's what keeps me up at night. Like, what is the way to make content, whether it's audio or video or whatever that will keep me. Us. I don't want to drag you into my world, but, like, you know, I'm. I'm. You know, I'm about to turn 50. It's like, how do I remain relevant and interesting to people and on what platform and in what way? And that's. That's scary. And I just. All I do is just keep pushing myself to talk to younger people, to understand and to want to really serve them and connect with them, but it's terrifying.

Interviewer (25:10)

David Green is obsessed, which is a fairly accurate description, but certainly the name of his show. He is also the proprietor, the.

Mike Pesca (25:19)

The guy who is steering the LNP.

Interviewer (25:22)

Collection of newspapers towards solvency lnp. They cover everything from the Lititz Moravian District on down to Sutter Village.

The RealReal Representative (25:33)

I don't know.

Mike Pesca (25:34)

I just read enough of that.

Interviewer (25:37)

Thank you so much, David.

David Green (25:38)

Mike, I love talking to you. Thank you.

Interviewer (25:42)

Foreign.

Mike Pesca (25:48)

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Mike Pesca (26:41)

And now the spiel. So among the pieces of life advice you might have gotten from a wizened grandfather. Don't play poker with a person whose first name is that of a city, especially a city in the American west, west of El Paso, but also including El Paso. I once lost a lot of money on the river to an El Paso Schwartz Baum. That river, of course, being the Rio Grande and a five of hearts. Never allow your blood to be drawn by a nurse who calls it an ouchy. If you're over, say, 14 years old. And when the millionaire invites you to his private island, check to see if he has a high profile sexual conviction in his past or don't. If you're Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, you can claim that even though the exact circumstance occurred, you could have claimed that you were disgusted and never met with the man.

David Green (27:24)

My wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with.

Mike Pesca (27:29)

That disgusting person ever again. And then maybe later it will or won't turn out that you made a request to go to his private island years after you registered that disgust. The new documents also show Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick arranged a visit to Epstein's island with his wife and children in 2012, after which Epstein passed along this message to Lutnick. Nice seeing you, Howard. Lutnick might actually survive this scandal because he is widely regarded as one of the most annoying people in the administration. But. But they don't seem to care or respond to any sort of pressure. Lutnick saving grace in this circumstance could be that he did ask for his wife and kids to join him on the island. All right, Lutnick, what's your game here? I do have a bit of analysis on how to look at the entire tranche of the Epstein files trash, or what has been released so far. An orientation, if you will. That'll come at the end after I go through some of the details. Of course I must. I'm someone who has been following this, you know, a fair degree, but also a normal amount. So not to have my brain get diseased. I was quite shocked to find that Sergey Brin of Google, who is of course the ex husband of Robert F. Kennedy's former running mate. So basically he's a member of the administration too. There's also Bill Gates was implicated in the Epstein files. But you know, then I looked into the Bill Gates part of it. So first I heard about it. And isn't it weird that it's passed around via the oral tradition? Did you hear what's in the Epstein files? Such as the structure of millions of millions of batches coming out at once? So Bill Gates asked for advice on slipping medication to his wife at the time, Melinda, so she wouldn't get an sti. Wow. Shocking if true, might not be true. The circumstance. I'll read you the headline from People magazine. Bill Gates denies completely false claims in Epstein emails that he contracted STIs from Russian girls. All right, there are a couple of quotes in that headline. One was completely false because that was Bill Gates saying it was completely false. It wasn't People magazine. And one was Russian Girls because also that was Bill Gates saying Russian girls. Except it wasn't Bill Gates saying Russian girls. Quotes sometimes don't actually clarify. So the circumstance is that this message from Bill Gates was actually written by Jeffrey Epstein and passed on to maybe or suggested to a Bill Gates associate, a guy named Boris Nicolic, who is a high up adviser. And maybe Epstein was saying to Boris, put this out in a letter or when you resign. And that's a good way to hurt Bill Gates. That doesn't mean that Bill Gates did any of this. And I was. My radar was pinged when the headline said sdi. This whole back and forth via email took place in 2013. We were saying STDs back then, but that was just People magazine changing things to the current tense. So it's really hard to know with all the quotes and misquotes and attempts at chicanery and a guy named Boris and Russian girls in the middle of this? I know Bill Gates is really rich, but why dwell on this stuff that might in fact be totally false when you have stuff that very much seems to be not totally false? Like the movie producer and co owner of the New York Giant, Steve Tisch. Did you contact that great ass fake tit name redacted. She's a character, short term, has an older boyfriend, wrote Jeffrey Epstein. He didn't have the sensitivity to protect the name of the great ass fake tit character. Epstein went on to say she has an older boyfriend going to acting school. 10 ass. I don't know why Steve Tish would care about the ass of the older boyfriend. Anyway, Tish emailed back, thanks, Jeffrey. Curious to know about name redacted. By which I suppose he means great ass fake. Tip. I will contact name redacted pro or civilian. And Epstein responds, civilian, but Russian and rarely tells the truth. But Fun. So a lot of qualifiers there. You know, a zig and his act. Civilian, but Russian, I guess somewhere in the continuum between a civilian and not a civilian, Russian means, you know, maybe not a civilian. And by civilian or pro or civilian, I think they were trying to say prostitute. Today we would say sex worker. Today we would say sdi. These are all the proper things we would say about millionaires and billionaires casually discussing, I think, what accounts to some form of trafficking. Now my analysis. Here's my analysis part. Maybe you could use it it. Every time a batch of these comes out, individuals are embarrassed. Many of them should be Elon Musk looking to party on the island. But then we're told this is just a distraction from some story in the news. But I have begun to regard the Epstein files as a distraction from themselves. There are over 6 million potential files out there, yet 3.5 million have been cleared for public viewing. And of course, the entity doing the clearing is the Trump controlled FBI Justice Department. So if I have one insight that cuts through all of this miasma of distraction, how to think about this. And this is what we turn to from our charismatic leaders or our analysts. A simple way to look at the files. Kuhnen says entire raft of pedophiliac billionaires running the world. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Just like there is a continuum between civilian and Russian, there's a continuum between Kuhnen and sensible. She's maybe on the Kuhnen side, but she seems to have gotten a lot of this right. But the easy way to look through this, I can't give you that. I can give you an orientation, which is that the Epstein files are proving to be a distraction from themselves. Do not look at them as a cynical ploy by the Trump administration to distract you from Minnesota, which was a distraction on affordability and everything is a distraction from the last thing. It's 2026. We live in a time of great distraction, but there are a few planned distractions. In fact, it runs counter to the idea of constant and omnipresent distraction to think that distract can very much be planned. The DNA of the distracting quality of life is just built into all of our issues. So of the 6 million files, do you think they cleared the 3.5 million leased incendiary? Do you think they're holding them back through their care and protecting the names of victims, as they say? Because every time a tranche comes out, victims come forward and say, you did a horrible job of retracting or redacting my names. I think the Epstein file thing might not be as much of a headache for the Trump administration, but an opportunity every few months to implicate another billionaire or two. And if a member of your administration goes down in the process, well, at least he's regarded as one of the very, very annoying ones. And that's it for today's show. Cory Warra produces the Gentleman. Kathleen Sykes runs the Gist List. Jeff Craig runs our media. We're looking for a great booker. A couple of you have suggested yourselves or friends. Email us if you want to book great guests for the show and other Peach Fish entities. We're at the gist@mike pesca.com who's monitoring that email and pretty much everything else. It's COO of peach fish Productions, formerly Chief Bullshit Officer. She's moved into the realm of the actual Michelle. And thanks for listening.

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