The Gist – Episode: "The Ghost Lab — Bigfoot, Ghosts, and Government Distrust in the Granite State" Released: June 10, 2025 | Host: Mike Pesca | Producer: Peach Fish Productions

1. Navigating Political Unrest and Media Narratives

The episode kicks off with Mike Pesca delving into the escalating unrest in Los Angeles, highlighting the complexities of public sentiment amid ongoing protests and lawlessness. Pesca emphasizes the strategic advantage this turmoil offers former President Donald Trump, suggesting that Trump understands the public's stance on issues like immigration and lawlessness, often swayed in his favor.

Key Discussion Points:

• Public Perception: While activists view Trump's actions as overreaching, Pesca argues that a significant portion of the public aligns with Trump's perspectives on immigration and crime.
• Local Impact: The episode references a vivid report from a local LA news station detailing vandalism at an Apple Store, where graffiti like "acab" (All Cops Are Bastards) underscores the deep-seated frustrations among certain protest groups.

Notable Quote:

"For advocates and activists, this is a principled stance about the president, not overreaching. But what he's reacting to is also the story." — Mike Pesca [02:15]

Pesca further critiques California Governor Gavin Newsom, accusing him of misrepresenting Trump's statements as direct threats to arrest him. This miscommunication, Pesca suggests, fuels unnecessary tension and serves Newsom's political ambitions rather than addressing real issues.

Notable Quote:

"Gavin Newsom seems to have concocted a fiction that Donald Trump has threatened to arrest him." — Mike Pesca [34:38]

2. Interview with Matthew Hongols Hetling: Exploring "Ghost Lab"

The core of the episode features an in-depth interview with Matthew Hongols Hetling, author of "Ghost Lab: How Bigfoot Hunters, Mediums, and Alien Enthusiasts Are Wrecking Science." Hetling discusses the intersection of paranormal inquiry and societal distrust, particularly in New Hampshire.

Key Discussion Points:

• New Hampshire as a Microcosm: Hetling highlights New Hampshire's unique position, characterized by high levels of distrust in governmental institutions despite having a highly accessible and representative legislative system.

  Notable Quote:

  "New Hampshire is almost like the ghost of the canary in the coal mine, reflecting broader national trends in trust and institutional faith." — Matthew Hongols Hetling [17:46]

• Paranormal Enthusiasm and Institutional Trust: Hetling argues that declining trust in institutions drives individuals toward paranormal explanations and communities, seeking alternative forms of understanding and connection.

  Notable Quote:

  "When people don't feel stable or in control, they are more likely to turn to the supernatural." — Matthew Hongols Hetling [16:39]

• Historical Context of Paranormal Activity: The conversation traces New Hampshire's rich history in paranormal phenomena, from the demonologists Ed and Lorraine Warren to modern-day ghost hunting TV shows, illustrating a sustained cultural fascination that persists amid societal shifts.

  Notable Quote:

  "As cell phones became ubiquitous, the wilder tales of previous paranormal claims couldn't be substantiated, leading to new standards in ghost hunting." — Matthew Hongols Hetling [14:47]

• Profiles of Paranormal Enthusiasts: Hetling introduces key figures from his book, including Andy Kit, a determined paranormal investigator, and Mike Stevens, an alien abductee whose life experiences blur the lines between trauma and belief.

  Notable Quote:

  "Andy assembled an 'Avengers' of the supernatural, bringing together diverse experts to inject science into paranormal phenomena." — Matthew Pesca [19:59]

3. The Decline of Institutional Trust and the Rise of the Supernatural

Building on the interview, Pesca and Hetling explore the broader societal implications of declining trust in institutions. They discuss how this erosion of faith creates fertile ground for alternative belief systems, such as paranormal communities, to thrive.

Key Discussion Points:

• Social Stability and Belief Systems: Citing Robert Putnam’s theories from "Bowling Alone," Hetling and Pesca discuss how instability and perceived lack of control lead individuals to seek solace in supernatural explanations.

  Notable Quote:

  "In situations where people don't feel they have control, they are more inclined to embrace the supernatural." — Matthew Hongols Hetling [26:08]

• Impact of Technology and Media: The proliferation of digital media and the internet exacerbates misinformation and echo chambers, further distancing the public from reliable institutional narratives and propelling interest in paranormal phenomena.

  Notable Quote:

  "Digital bubbles and hyper-partisan times skew our perception of institutions, making alternative explanations more appealing." — Matthew Hongols Hetling [27:19]

• Cultural Shifts in New Hampshire: Hetling points out that New Hampshire's cultural emphasis on individualism and low religious participation contributes to its unique landscape of distrust and paranormal fascination.

  Notable Quote:

  "New Hampshire celebrates individualism over collective bonds, which undermines traditional institutions that foster community trust." — Matthew Hongols Hetling [30:04]

4. Conclusion: Bridging the Trust Gap

In concluding the episode, Pesca reflects on the interconnectedness of political unrest, institutional distrust, and the rising allure of the supernatural as alternative frameworks for understanding a rapidly changing world. He underscores the importance of addressing the root causes of distrust to mitigate the appeal of unfounded beliefs and restore faith in societal institutions.

Final Thoughts:

• The episode paints a comprehensive picture of how societal instability and declining trust in conventional institutions can lead individuals toward alternative belief systems, such as paranormal communities.
• By focusing on New Hampshire as a case study, Hetling provides insights into broader national trends, emphasizing the need for rebuilding trust to address the underlying issues fueling both political unrest and the fascination with the supernatural.

Notable Quote:

"If we don't understand why people turn to the supernatural, how are we going to change it?" — Mike Pesca [32:12]

Notable Quotes Overview

• Mike Pesca:
  "For advocates and activists, this is a principled stance about the president, not overreaching. But what he's reacting to is also the story." [02:15]
  "Gavin Newsom seems to have concocted a fiction that Donald Trump has threatened to arrest him." [34:38]
  "If we don't understand why people turn to the supernatural, how are we going to change it?" [32:12]

• Matthew Hongols Hetling:
  "New Hampshire is almost like the ghost of the canary in the coal mine, reflecting broader national trends in trust and institutional faith." [17:46]
  "When people don't feel stable or in control, they are more likely to turn to the supernatural." [16:39]
  "New Hampshire celebrates individualism over collective bonds, which undermines traditional institutions that foster community trust." [30:04]

Conclusion

"The Ghost Lab" episode of The Gist adeptly intertwines contemporary political dynamics with deep-seated societal issues, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of how distrust in institutions fosters a fertile ground for paranormal beliefs. Through insightful discussions and expert interviews, the episode encourages a critical examination of the factors driving both political unrest and the enduring fascination with the supernatural.