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- [00:01]
Ryan Reynolds
This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two factor authentication, strong passwords and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it and they might not be as careful. That's why Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Make visit lifelock.com podcast for 40% off terms apply Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com.
- [00:48]
Mike Pesca
Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan opt and fees extra fee full terms@mint mobile.com.
- [01:04]
Ben Dreyfuss
Hi this Mike.
- [01:05]
Mike Pesca
This is Saturday.
- [01:06]
Ben Dreyfuss
This is the Saturday show and I'm going to play on this Saturday. My conversation Some of my conversation with Ben Dreyfuss who does the Calm down substack. A former editor for Mother Jones. Very smart guy. He and I are both, I guess you could say centrists. It's just the least sexy phrase which really belies our entire me and our collective men. So I will spare you the first four minutes or so of this conversation because that is when I determined that inside my house the 5G connection was basically giving me two G's at best. Gaga. Not the goo goo goo goo that we're looking for. The five GS but I took it outside. You can see all that on Substack. Mike Pesca that substack.com or just listen here for most of it, not all of it. Me and Ben Dreyfuss of the Calm Down Substack audio version only video version on the actual substack Father's Day gifts I don't know, maybe there's a sameness to it. Socks, grills, tools repeat the share I wanted to do better so I quinced it up. Quince makes buying a thoughtful gift easy. They have all the pieces. Dads, I'm one wanna wear organic cotton silk polos. I have to say did I know I wanted that? I didn't. And then it touched my skin and my skin thanked myself. It was a little you Know, self dealing, as they say. But they also have European linen beach shorts and awesome pants. And quince is priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find with similar brands. It is the whole cutting out the middleman, but it really work. They work with top artisans. They don't hit you with the crazy markups. They hit you with the delightful fabrics and these factories that are safe and ethical and responsible. And for Father's Day, I gotta say, I got it for me and then I gave it to my dad. The shirts that I'm talking about, the polo shirts, they were amazing. I don't want to give them up. I had two. One for me, one for Dad. I chose the color that I wanted and they're amazing shirts. And I made my dad love me more. I made him. For the dad who deserves better than basic, Quince has you covered. Go to Quince.com the gist for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com the gist to get free shipping and 365 day returns.
- [03:47]
Mike Pesca
Quick.
- [03:47]
Ben Dreyfuss
Quince.com the gist.
- [03:53]
Mike Pesca
You are reporting live from a major event, are you not?
- [03:58]
Josh Barrow
Well, I just got.
- [03:59]
Mike Pesca
I raced back live at the event.
- [04:00]
Josh Barrow
I raced back so that I could. It ended a few minutes ago, but I was at this. This thing called welcome Fest, which is for, like, centrists to in D.C. to all get together and jerk each other off a little bit. And Matt was. Iglesias was there and was, like, part of it. And a bunch of the people on, like, Blue sky and everything were constantly getting very mad about what he was saying. And the people who were complaining about him in that article, like from the American Prospect, the revolving door had been like, live tweeting it all day in these, like, very outraged, sort of like, I'm gonna fall down sort of a thing. And if I found, just as someone who was there to watch that, it added a lot of spice and fun to the day for me.
- [04:44]
Mike Pesca
So what were the protesters? So I saw a tweet that you put up, or we call it an X now. And it was only from looking at the graphic evidence that you realized what the cause of the protesters was.
- [04:58]
Josh Barrow
Yeah, they. Josh Barrow was interviewing Richie Torres, Congressman Torres on stage. And then suddenly all these protesters showed up and they started to scream about Gaza. And I took some photos of it, and then they were rushed off stage. And then it wasn't until I zoomed in on the photo that I noticed that in the bottom part of the sign that said like gaze for Gaza, Free Gaza. Then on the bottom it said climate Defense. Like they never mentioned anything about climate. It was just, it was just a show. Apparently that's, that's involved in it too.
- [05:37]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Now this is the question that I asked after that. A horrible Colorado attack where the guy lit 12 people on fire and y. Free Palestine. Did it work? Did it Free Palestine?
- [05:49]
Josh Barrow
I haven't, I haven't heard that. It has. I haven't gotten that push alert yet.
- [05:55]
Mike Pesca
Yes. Because I, that's. This is. I. Have. I. This. I should always mention this in the beginning. Although according to my bad wi Fi and the stats I'm seeing, one person is on with us this campaign. We usually have a massive audience for these. So I don't know what's going on. But anyway, we might, we might just replay this and it will have to be appreciated in the breach or at least in retrospect respect. But I did note it on the gist list. I should always mention the gist list earlier after, you know, this horrible assault and who they were trying to put fire on or he was trying to put fire on and he yelled free Palestine. As of press time, Palestine remains unfree. I'm sorry, I'm sorry about that. It did not work. I say this with all due death, Prince humility and other, you know, faux words of concern for. Not sure. Sympathy for the cause.
- [06:47]
Josh Barrow
I'm not sure that a lot of these Palestinian protesters have a, have a game plan to actually enact any freedom.
- [06:55]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, yeah. It doesn't seem to be a free.
- [06:57]
Josh Barrow
Right.
- [06:57]
Mike Pesca
It doesn't seem to be too much of a freedom based movement. Yeah, I give you that. Yeah. I, you know, I also think that when do you remember? Of course you do. There were a couple of self immolations that took place maybe over a year ago.
- [07:16]
Josh Barrow
I don't have them written down, but I, I do remember that someone did that outside the Pentagon, I think, right? Oh yes, yes.
- [07:22]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Outside the embassy, I think. But okay, so some Washington D.C. place perhaps affiliated with the military industrial complex. And afterwards there are all these really, I guess, well rendered or good faith phrase. I hate thought pieces about maybe this actually is a true act of courage. I remember Jay Caspian Kang, he's a very thoughtful guy, essentially saying that he's very much against Israel or against at least Israel's actions. And he says, you know, how could we not say that? This is a very, very brave act. And at the time I said to myself, you know, let's not start valorizing such acts. But in retrospect, when the fire is going on, the other people. I would like to get back to that time. I would like to get back to the time when we're saying, you know, if you have these instincts, some pretty good New Yorker writers will write nice things about you if instead of putting the fire on other people, you just take the fire to yourself. That's what, that's what I'm saying.
- [08:21]
Josh Barrow
That's true. I mean, I think that, like, I don't want people to be setting themselves on fire, but if you're going to, you know, it's not, you're not infringing on someone else's rights.
- [08:29]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, yeah. And you could be seen as, you know, making an excellent point almost always. I do think the people who self immolate have deep, deep psychological problems. And when stories come out, it's almost never the case of, yeah, this guy was just chipper. He was what we call happy go lucky.
- [08:45]
Josh Barrow
Right. Because the other guy who set himself on fire last year was the person who did it in front of the Trump courthouse, right?
- [08:51]
Mike Pesca
Yes, that guy.
- [08:53]
Josh Barrow
It's not like people were like, all right, well look, say what you will about is. Say what you will about his issues, but my God, he cared.
- [09:03]
Mike Pesca
Right? I guess it all depends on what the cause of the immolation is. Just don't immolate, I say. So what is what was going on at the. I do love Josh Barrow. You and I were participating for a time on a Josh Barrow podcast. And has that been. Is. That's not ongoing, is it? You've not been sticking out of doing episodes without me, have you?
- [09:22]
Josh Barrow
No, we haven't been doing it. It is not. We haven't done one in. In since February or so. I don't really know what the exact plan is with it going forward, but there will probably be. But we did, we did do that in the January and February, which was quite fun. And yeah, hopefully we'll get to do them again.
- [09:38]
Mike Pesca
As I'm going through this, Megan McArdle was our fourth I find for podcasts group discussion. Podcast three is the platonic ideal. What about you?
- [09:46]
Josh Barrow
Yeah, I mean, when it gets. Because also you'd want a guest at some point and, and then when you have a guest, if you have, if you have four, then it's five and that's, that's.
- [09:55]
Mike Pesca
That.
- [09:55]
Josh Barrow
That can be quite unwieldy.
- [09:58]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, it's. There's a lot of calculations that I don't know, I assume are a Lot like an origin. Right. Where you don't we say, oh, threesome, foursome. But then, you know, someone brings a friend and all of a sudden we're out of dip.
- [10:09]
Josh Barrow
Right. Definitely the odd. Once there's an odd number there, there's always going to be someone watching and they're going to have. They're going to have some emotional reaction to something.
- [10:17]
Mike Pesca
Right. So with garnishes or numbers of cheese on a plate, it's always an odd number. Right. I was. Were you ever a bartender? As a bartender, for a little bit. You always have to garnish things with an odd number. One or three. In fact, if you ask for extra olives in your martini, they'll give you three. They won't give you two if they're good. If you ask for extra onions in your Gibson, you're a maniac. But anyway. Yeah. So the orgy rules and the garnish of drinks rules are the exact opposite.
- [10:46]
Josh Barrow
I wonder what other sorts of things one could learn at like a bartending school or a culinary institute that would apply to orgies. You know, there's probably quite a lot of that. A lot of that, you know, overlaps.
- [10:58]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. I mean, in the 80s, all the drinks wanted to name themselves, like something at Plato's Retreat, you know, this. Your Slippery nipples, your Sex is on the beach, etc.
- [11:08]
Josh Barrow
The buttery nipple.
- [11:09]
Mike Pesca
God, I remember the buttery nipple. Yeah. What was. I think that was. That was propelled or foisted upon us because the peach schnapps industry or the peach schnapps distributor. No, this is real. They had like a new contract and they were trying to convince college girls or 20 something year olds that peach schnapps is a fine drink, not just for two tonics anymore.
- [11:32]
Josh Barrow
Well, I mean, it worked. I mean, I mean, I think that we need more people like that on my team, you know, thinking outside the box.
- [11:38]
Mike Pesca
Right, right. Thinking outside the Oriola. Yeah.
- [11:42]
Josh Barrow
Ye.
- [11:44]
Mike Pesca
Okay, so we did this. I really liked our Josh show. Just like I like Josh. I got to talk to you a lot. I think we've only hung out once at. Was it. At which convention was it. It was in Milwaukee. So that must have been the rnc.
- [11:57]
Josh Barrow
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure we hung out a few times at that.
- [12:00]
Mike Pesca
That week. Yes. Right. We got a lot of hanging out. And then you would, you would text, hey, they're not letting me in on. On the floor. So I'm at the casino playing poker and I was, I was torn.
- [12:12]
Josh Barrow
Which.
- [12:13]
Mike Pesca
Is like exactly how you should cover these things, right? That's a very Hunter S. Thompson edge.
- [12:18]
Josh Barrow
True. I remember trying to, like, I'm walking, just like trying to walk onto the floor, and then the person first letting me go and then immediately, like following after me going, wait, wait, wait, let me see that again. They said, you're not supposed to be here. And I was like, all right, fair enough, fair enough. Just don't shoot me. Okay?
- [12:35]
Mike Pesca
Was this only a floor pass thing or was it just inside the hall?
- [12:39]
Josh Barrow
I had no pass when I went to that convention, but then I got one by talking my way into it. And. But it, it, it was one that you couldn't look at too hard, you know, and then I got. Because it wasn't. Because it wasn't mine. I didn't have, like, the journalism show where they were like, here's where you can go, here's where you can't. And so then I was like standing on the bottom of the arena and I was like, well, other people are walking on the floor. Let's just. I've gotten this far. Let's see what I can do. And then I just followed some people onto the floor.
- [13:09]
Mike Pesca
And then the woman came up to.
- [13:10]
Josh Barrow
Me and said, let's see it. No, get out of here. And I had to go back to the media, the press pen, like a, like, oi ploy.
- [13:20]
Mike Pesca
That, incidentally, is exactly how J.D. vance got named vice president. That exact process. Just tell me. So we've established we know each other. We've done some Josh Barra stuff. We're big fans of Barra. What was going on during today's event? What was the. Before the disruptions?
- [13:38]
Josh Barrow
It was basically people talking about how, like, people, Democrats listen to voters and not be afraid of left wing people on blue skies. Like, essentially they need to. It was a lot of people describing how, like, when you are a staffer and a congressman in these places, it can be terrifying when these, When a hundred people just scream at you all the time, but that in reality those people are not like, demonstrative of the actual electorate and that they need to build up sort of a stiffer spine and just to understand that, like, just because people are. It's ending up in your press clips and that you're seeing people mad at you on the Internet, it doesn't actually mean that those people speak for anything and you should sort of like, you know, trust your own instincts.
- [14:24]
Mike Pesca
Okay, so was it more a version of Twitter isn't real life but updated to the new app, or was it more while Twitter might Be some reflection of real life. Blue sky definitely isn't real.
- [14:36]
Josh Barrow
Real life. Well, I wouldn't say that. They, they said Twitter is real life. Like, there were some explicit, like, talks with people pointing out, like, how few people in their districts have Twitter either. But blue sky is now a sort of, like, term that covers every manner of online leftists. I think. So. So they, they were using blue sky sort of just as like an offhand, like, don't worry about these loud fringe leftists.
- [15:02]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Do you remember, do you remember, like a year and a month ago, I'm getting time frame wrong threads. Was said to be the big. And then I was involved in a. If this is a deep cut, a mastodon kerfuffle, literally. The New York Times wrote about a mastodon kerfuffle that I was involved in and had nothing to do with resurrecting the extinct Paleolithic beast.
- [15:24]
Josh Barrow
What was it? What happened?
- [15:26]
Mike Pesca
Oh, my God.
- [15:28]
Josh Barrow
How did you dread people.
- [15:30]
Mike Pesca
I know, I know. I was invited on a mastodon instance. And then I think what happened was this was around something around when Emily Bazelon and some others finally were doing some very detailed good reporting in the New York Times about trans issues. And on this mastodon journalist instance, I tweeted, donned, I don something I protruded great art, some like, good article. And it, you know, calls in the question a lot of the ideology or something like that. And then someone named Parker Malloy. You ever hear of Parker?
- [16:05]
Josh Barrow
I know, I know. Parker. Yeah, right.
- [16:07]
Mike Pesca
Okay, good. So maybe you could talk to Parker. Parker essentially said, either Mike Pesca goes or I do. And there was this whole huge fight. And then the guy who ran the instance said, mike, I have your back no matter what. And then like two hours later is like, you're out, you're gone. We can't have you with these dangerous remaster donning these protruding of New York Times articles. So it was so. It was so stupid, even I got no pleasure out of it. I just joined because someone said, oh, this could be the next big thing. And I said, I doubt it. But as long as I open myself up to scathing criticism from Parker Malloy, calling my. Calling me a ghoul. It can't be all wrong.
- [16:48]
Josh Barrow
I mean, Parker and I are friends. Parker, Parker, like many of my friends on the left, I don't agree with you about everything and also have. Have a fundamental disagreement about the exact thing you're describing here, which is platforming. Like, like she, like many of those people, is constantly like, all right, they're gone. And I. I don't. I don't think we should be de. Platforming people just because you disagree with them politically.
- [17:13]
Mike Pesca
On a. On a. In a journalistic forum. I agree with that. But I. The best thing that happened is I never was on Mastodon again, and I pretty much had a huge falling out with the guy who invited me, and that's made my life a bit better.
- [17:26]
Josh Barrow
Isn't Mastodon. Isn't Mastodon. I. I was never on Mastodon, but isn't Mastodon Blue Sky? Isn't that like the. Don't they use the same pipes? I don't really know, Jason.
- [17:36]
Mike Pesca
Is it like a rebrand?
- [17:38]
Josh Barrow
Is it like when I don't entirely understand. To be quite honest with you, I'm not a terribly bright guy.
- [17:43]
Mike Pesca
Is it like when Purina Cat Food became Whiskers, or is it just this? I think. Yeah, I think Whiskers is the former.
- [17:50]
Josh Barrow
Oh, my God.
- [17:51]
Mike Pesca
Oh, no. Maybe it was Friskies. I think I. I want to get my cat food right. Honey was Friskies. Now Whiskers. Okay. No, she's the. My wife says it's not true. And anyway, she'd never. Should never use Whiskers on our cats.
- [18:05]
Josh Barrow
She's upset that you're using the WI fi for this. She's like, we only got a couple of baths. We only got a little bit.
- [18:12]
Mike Pesca
I'm not using the WI fi. The house. They're building a house next door. You can kind of see it in the back. I don't want to give away all my geolocation. And they just cut the WI fi. And so I've been a week without WI fi doing these. Can we say Jerry rigged? Is that offensive? Will I get kicked. Kicked off a Mastodon instance? Yeah. So I've been. I've been dealing with that. Okay.
- [18:32]
Josh Barrow
Jerry rigged. Offensive.
- [18:34]
Mike Pesca
I mean, you could find it offensive. Someone out there is saying, either Mike Pesca says Jerry rigged, or I do.
- [18:39]
Josh Barrow
Because someone was like, my. My. My. My father's name was Jerry, and he was so good at rigging things.
- [18:46]
Mike Pesca
I think it was during the war, the Jerry's. You know, the German rig thinks. Yes. I think it's a slight against the hunter. Oh, well, I do.
- [18:54]
Josh Barrow
Nobody gives a shit about.
- [18:56]
Mike Pesca
We have to be. It's a nice way to. Of all the things to call a German a Jerry. That's not so bad.
- [19:01]
Josh Barrow
Well, I didn't realize that.
- [19:02]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Now. Now you know, and it can't be unlearned. So I had a very interesting, very similar thought. About the, you know, how much pay attention to Blue sky. And it does seem not much is the answer. But then I do think also that the age old, you know, Twitter is not real life. It's really become more real life. And you know how much of your income or income is based on Twitter or something like that? A lot. Okay, we're exceptions. But it does seem, I don't know, it seems more plausible to give it some credence as the public forum than, than maybe in 2018 or 2019.
- [19:38]
Josh Barrow
No, I guess I don't think that it was ever it, it never should have been that. And it still isn't. Like I, I, I still think that like the num, the, the actual number of people on these sites is quite low. I mean it's something else. If you wanted to sort of like make it about Instagram or even TikTok is more popular. But like no one really just like the number of people on Twitter or its idiot cousin Blue sky is just very small.
- [20:06]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
- [20:06]
Josh Barrow
But it does influence the way bookers on cable news act and it does influence the way writers act in other places and stuff like that.
- [20:14]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. And book deals are pretty much based on Twitter following and how many substacks. And not just Twitter following, but the other social media metrics. And greenlighting someone for a substack is basically who's the twitch streamer's right hand man, who themselves has 240,000 followers. And I don't know is the lack of. So, so what should we do if we agree that social media is not real life? Just wait for the town hall forum? Because I've seen those and they don't really seem like real life. So it's more real life than, I don't know, it's. It, it seems tempting to dig in your heels and to say that this version, this slice of my reality is the only real reality. But when that becomes a very vanishing percent when you know, my real life is people I talk to in person, which is what, 8% of your actual existence? How long can we say that it's not real life?
- [21:09]
Josh Barrow
Right. I mean, I guess the difference between real life is that a huge, obviously like a overwhelming majority of Americans use social media, but do they use it to talk about politics the way that the 20% most annoying Americans do? I don't know about that because I mean, in general, there's a study that I love that I read last year that is there are. The main divide in America when you look at people is that there are 80% of people in America don't want to talk about politics.
- [21:41]
Mike Pesca
And the Smart 80. The Smart 80%, Sensible 80. Yeah.
- [21:45]
Josh Barrow
But if you ask people about like as the error as like things have gotten more polarized. If you ask people like, would you be okay with your child bringing home a Republican or a Democrat if you're, you know, whatever one like, of the other party.
- [22:00]
Mike Pesca
Yes.
- [22:01]
Josh Barrow
A huge percent say no, they wouldn't be okay with it. They are not interested in that. But then if you qualify that statement with they bring home a Republican who doesn't talk about it very much, then they go, oh, that's okay.
- [22:18]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
- [22:19]
Josh Barrow
But like, in reality, it's just that they don't want to hear about this from people who are constantly mad and screaming about it. And like Blue sky is just that. And I think that one of the things that, like, it's easy when you use Twitter to be like, Twitter is just this too. But in reality, like there's basketball, Twitter, there's hockey. Well, I don't know if there's hockey Twitter, but there's.
- [22:39]
Mike Pesca
There is hockey.
- [22:42]
Josh Barrow
There's people out there. It's like that scene in, in any, in. Oh, fuck, what is the name of that movie as Good as it Gets, where he's like, you know, there are people out there. Just no one in this car.
- [22:54]
Mike Pesca
Right. So if we can. I'm agreeing with mostly what you're saying and I've seen those stats and the lines on would you object to someone of a different race and religion and would you object to someone of a different political party diverged 15 years ago. And now people who object to a child bring home someone of a different race, at least people admitting it. But I also think genuinely, people objecting to that are in the low, low single digits, whereas with political party it is in the significant double digits. Right.
- [23:31]
Josh Barrow
As long as they. Unless they keep it to themselves. Right.
- [23:35]
Mike Pesca
But I also think that there's some sort of logic to it. Right? Like if you're the kind of person who is a dyed in the wool Democrat, the kind of person who might be inclined to say, I don't like people of other parties. There is a lot of predictive. The person who talks about it. There's a lot of personality traits that you can rightly infer from that or opinions or, you know, would you want. Isn't it a proxy, let's say you're a Democrat for would you want your daughter dating a guy who's against abortion? Now, it's an imperfect proxy, but if that's the Question. I think most of us would say it's kind of legitimate to say. I wouldn't want that.
- [24:16]
Josh Barrow
Sure. I mean, it's. It's a legitimate proxy. You know, it's helpful if you're just imagining it as a fantasy. In reality, that person is a full formed human being, like, who you might have other inputs you can take from. And. But, like, as an offhand, when we're just imagining people. Sure. You know, Yeah, I, I think that, that. I think it makes complete sense when you're talking about hypothetical to do that. But like, in reality, if my daughter came home with someone who she said, oh, he's pro life, I wouldn't be living in the abstract and I would be able to, like, look at him.
- [24:52]
Mike Pesca
Absolutely.
- [24:53]
Josh Barrow
Yeah. That's what I think.
- [24:55]
Mike Pesca
But then again, you're the kind of guy who goes to centrist conferences, Right? That's true. Now, here's another couple things I want to talk about this. I'm glad we're talking about this. While it's true that only a small percentage of people are on Twitter, a small percentage of people vote in primaries, and in most places, primaries are the only thing that matters. So here in New York, it was Last time around 26% of voters voted in a primary. And so that's not so different from the percent of people who vote in Twitter. You can't tell yourself, oh, I'm going to pay attention to the other 75% if you're a politician, because those people might actually have played no part in the political process. Zero part.
- [25:39]
Josh Barrow
Yeah. I mean, it's definitely true that, like, the, the primaries also contribute to this. Right.
- [25:43]
Mike Pesca
That, like, yeah, they don't want that. Yes.
- [25:47]
Josh Barrow
But like, at the same time, I mean, if, if, you know, if in 2024, the most engaged people on. In politics had decided the election, Kamala would have won by like, six points. You know, like, like, yeah, there's a huge change between that in theory and then that in reality. Because, like, even in, you know, if it were true that the most engaged people online or the most gay people in politics constantly won elections, the left would win some primaries. But they don't. They're. They're nobody. They've never won anything. They won. They've never. Bernie Sanders couldn't get dominated at all because, like, it. It's still. It's still like the level between there's a lot of them online and ooh, to actually winning those primaries is still quite a huge gap, I think.
- [26:40]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Yeah. And all the stories about, you know, the burgeoning success of the DSA now with 90,000. Okay, then again, I, I guess maybe because a guy named Andrew Cuomo is the east and bearer, the front runner, I guess there's some outside chance that a DSA candidate could, I don't know. They're saying, I think they're. The thing is msnbc, but Mamdani could have a shot. What, what it is is they, I don't know if you've seen the polling on this. They'll play a poll that shows Cuomo at 56 and Mamdani at, you know, 40 something. And that is after the extrapolation for all the Ranked choice voting. And so when you just ask who do you like more? Cuomo is, you know, 20 something.
- [27:23]
Josh Barrow
So isn't it like one out of only one of those polls? There's a. Don't the other one show them up by like 30 points? Yeah, yeah.
- [27:29]
Mike Pesca
It's one outlier poll with extrapolations from Ranked Choice with a whole lot of other things with. By the way, my favorite stat about the New York City election is that there are 12 people running and two of them have the initials MZ. What are the chances? Yeah. Minor zyre. So here's another. This, this is also very interesting and maybe a place I wanted to go. Twitter isn't real life. The, let's say social media isn't real life. I this weekend interviewed Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson in Seattle and I had a question to ask them that I threw out because of stuff that Jake was telling me and stuff that I was seeing firsthand. But my question was, although this is a number one bestseller and although, though ineffable, I think everyone in Washington D.C. d.C. Is talking about it. And I'll just say normatively, it's excellent reporting and it adds to knowledge. As I look at everyone saying anything about you on any platform that I have access to, it's pure unadulterated hatred. And you've united the hate the hatred because the Fox hate the Fox people and further right. Hate that you missed it in the first place. And there's the intimation of. I guess the kindest thing they would say is now you tell us. But maybe they'd also say you were engaged in the act of COVID up. That's part of your subtitle. And then the left wing people hate Tapper. The Democratic stalwarts are all saying, how could you concentrate on this now when we have this threat of Trump and it's not just yet, Twitter will be what Twitter, Blue Sky, Fox, msnbc. You could figure all these people will have the sentiment, some version of the sentiments I just said. But I even started looking at Reddit, the ask a liberal page, and they all hate Jake Tapper. How could it be? How could everyone hate Jake Tapper and him have the number one book in the country? And this is what I was seeing. I was at an ideas festival and it's a PBS crowd and everyone seemed to love Jake Tapper. So there. So they're, you know, it's self selecting who goes to see him. But they're also the kind of people who definitely didn't want to admit that Joe Biden had cognitive decline. Do we just throw out the scores, the reams of vitriol from all sides of the aisle? Is it just zero signal about what, where the electorate or where the people are. And I also know that to have a bestseller and you sell 53,000 books, which is pretty good. It's not the hundreds of thousands of people who watch any of these networks. I don't know what to think about it.
- [30:07]
Josh Barrow
I mean, I would say that in this specific instance, there is. Yeah, this is all noise that like there's. Exactly. I mean, let's forget about the Republicans for a second because they don't, they don't matter to Democrats. They obviously hate Jake ever and they can believe whatever they want about all this. Doesn't, doesn't matter about them at all. Then there's Democrats and there's independents and will it, we'll even like set the independents aside for a second because they're mostly disengaged. They're not going to be reading this book and arguing about it online.
- [30:39]
Mike Pesca
But.
- [30:39]
Josh Barrow
So then let's focus on the Democrats who are now ripping at him. Like I see it all the time what you're talking about. These like liberals who are like, you betrayed us, Jake, you betrayed us. And like, then there's the other one.
- [30:51]
Mike Pesca
What county are they from? Where are they from?
- [30:53]
Josh Barrow
I don't know. They're from people, you know, but they're, they're, they're like, you betrayed us, Jake. And they're, they're real mad. I see it, I see it constantly tweeting a Jake saying, how could you? How could you?
- [31:05]
Mike Pesca
Yes.
- [31:05]
Josh Barrow
And those people, I think are just a, a very tiny number of people in the world in reality, because they're the same ones who were doing it about Biden after the debate, who, they just didn't want to admit it. But then the other group in the world in the universe that is the United States and the Democratic Party are people who might don't feel the way that these wackos feel but also don't entirely want to revisit this, you know, because it just doesn't make anyone look good. They're upset about this election loss and so they're not going to be in there defending people in these comments like you're not going to get a full sighted flame war between equal parties here. You're going to get one that is people who are very mad and hate Democrats and then you're going to get with some thrown in Republicans who are obviously are opportunistically doing it. And then you're going to get people who might read it and go yeah, I agree with it. And they might read it and go be shocked by it but they're not going to go to the mattresses to argue about it online because in general this whole thing has been a real shit fuck for all the Democrats who'd rather not have to talk about this.
- [32:20]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, right. The call to arms is something like the sum of human knowledge is benefited a careful look back and soul searching and the unearthing of facts. That is not something to ever try to inject into an online conversation with success. Yeah.
- [32:37]
Josh Barrow
And I agree with you though, there is like something to be gained from it. I like that book. I thought I'm still mad about, you know, the fact that I still feel lied to by the Biden like administration's top people that they kept and I feel gullible and I feel like I've learned about something about myself. I fell for it but you know, I'm a pundit. Right. Who has to do that for work And I understand why a lot of people who don't have to do that aren't necessarily going to go online and and try and grapple with all of that all the time.
- [33:07]
Ben Dreyfuss
We'll be back in a minute with more but not all of my conversation with Ben Dreyfuss. We're going to wind it down and if you want to listen to the whole thing and we get into Nathan Fielders show, Ben wrote some columns on how much it actually cost. That'll only be on the sub stack.
- [33:25]
Mike Pesca
But we're giving you a lot here.
- [33:26]
Ben Dreyfuss
It's all free anyway.
- [33:28]
Mike Pesca
You can't really.
- [33:28]
Ben Dreyfuss
I'm just, I'm just working hard and they're not even giving me all the G's I need. True classics, an amazing brand.
- [33:44]
Mike Pesca
I.
- [33:45]
Ben Dreyfuss
And if you see me on the videos we put forward most of the time, I'm wearing a great, nicely fitted True Classic T shirts. I don't like to wear a white T shirt out, Fonzie it up. But with True Classic, it's heavy enough, the fit is fantastic. And that's the white T shirt.
- [34:03]
Mike Pesca
When I wear the black T shirt.
- [34:05]
Ben Dreyfuss
Let me tell you, I'm really stepping out. And I wear True Classic jeans. They fit great. I've got a dark pair, I've got a light pair, I got a polo shirt. I'm in danger of being a True Classic man through and through. The gear fits right. It feels amazing. And the price, the price is. The price is very nice. Compare the price to. Sometimes a really well fitted T shirt is stupidly expensive, but with True Classic, it's smartly affordable. You can, you can feel the difference the moment you throw it on. They're tailored where you want it, they're relaxed where you need it. You don't tug on it. It's not all bunched up. It's clean, it's effortless. It really works. Forget overpriced designer brands. Ditch the disposable fast fashion. It's going to ditch you eventually. True Classic is built for comfort, it's built to last, and it's built to give back. You can grab them at I'll name some retailers. Target, Costco, or how about this? Go to trueclassic.com the gist that helps us the most. And it'll help you because you'll look truly classic trueclassic.com the gist and get hooked up.
- [35:19]
Mike Pesca
Today, politics is entertainment. It's for. There's a certain percentage of people, and it's the entirety of the msnbc, CNN and Fox viewership who views politics as entertaining. And I guess to be nice to them, I would say they're news junkies and there is a civic obligation. But yes, most normal people do not look at politics and should not look at politics as entertainment. And there was a Tufts professor who knew that if he said, you people are doing it wrong by looking at his entertainment, he said, politics is for power. So that's how it is best understood. But this, and you're absolutely right that it is the entertaining people or the people who look at it for entertainment who are on Twitter. But it's also, and this gets me to this question, if Twitter isn't real life, is MSNBC real life? What percentage of CNN is real life? Everything that we do as news isn't real life. At some point, something has to be real life. And is it only someone who doesn't pay attention until the week before election day. Is real life the low information voter or the rational person who has the classic two jobs and believe some Joe the Plumber stuff because they weren't paying attention the whole time?
- [36:38]
Josh Barrow
Well, I think that cnn, I mean, in a perfect world, CNN and MSNBC and Fox would be real life in what they focus on. You know, like when I say MSNBC isn't real life, what I mean is the debate table on MSNBC isn't real life. Right. And like, that's true on CNN too. And they have these dumb debates, but like, you know, in a functioning world, they would be talking more about things that are real life, even though it's for people who are lunatics. Yeah, but like, what's really happened is that like on msnbc, I don't feel like they bother showing you real life at all. And they certainly don't on Fox either. And that like, what is, what is real life? I always think of this Barbara Tuckman line that she has about World War I where she says, like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get it wrong a little bit. But she was like, one of the amazing things about World War I was that it destroyed the old order. And for the first time it made people think about what was going on here in life and not the hereafter. Because before life was, they were thinking so much about heaven that they, you know, you had to consider life in that way. But then once they were thinking about it on life, they demanded more. And it like, what, what was real then? Was it the hereafter or the here and now? And it changes your entire life when you do one of those things. It changes the entire world. And so like the idea that there is that life is what's going on online is of course true, increasingly true. Everyone argues online. We do everything online. We spend all of our time online. But does that mean that online is demonstrative in your outputs as it is to realize? Or does it mean that you're spending so much on time online that you're maybe getting a warp to view a real life?
- [38:20]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I also agree that what we put our finger on is why the news media will always be, I think, inevitably will be siloed and will be untrustworthy for the most part. Because the people who look at politics for entertainment and Fox's primetime ratings are over 2 million and MSNBC's are over 1 million and CNN's are 600,000. That's because they want politics as Entertainment. And they want a story, and the story they want isn't, here's just the thing that happens, or this party has a bill to subsidize heaters, because what's the next story about that? What's the implication about that? That's actually a good policy, or maybe you could say a bad policy. But it's not a story with a narrative. And so just like radio stations have a format, hip hop, classic rock, country, these stations have a format, and this format is for people who look politics as a story and a narrative. And it could never be straight down the middle. I work for npr. I don't. I wouldn't say NPR is straight down the middle, but it's really the one reason why I say they should still be funded, because it kind of comes closer. And PBS, the NewsHour, though, a little bit of a beloved snooze fest. Yeah. Like, it's the only. Unless there's some subsidy, the natural order of things will never get you an audience that is looking at news as entertainment and also at the same time, doesn't want their values reflected back. Content.
- [39:49]
Josh Barrow
I mean, there's never been. There's never been a time when the news could pay for itself. Right. Like, like it's, you know, it was using. Maybe it was paying for itself with. By forcing advertisers to advertise because no one else had anywhere else to go. So in newspapers.
- [40:02]
Mike Pesca
Yes, that's right. That's when it worked when the want ads. When had to sell a car with the want ads and reach 99.99% of people who weren't interested in buying your car. And then things got more efficient. Now we're in the world you're describing. Right?
- [40:14]
Josh Barrow
Right. And like, even, like, like the great example people will counter with that is like 60 minutes. Right. 60 minutes used to be a huge, huge show, but also there was only four networks, you know, like there are. And all they were getting was one hour a week of it. Like, the people have never really demonstrated much of an interest in just the core news gathering parts.
- [40:36]
Mike Pesca
Right.
- [40:36]
Josh Barrow
You have to, like, find the opportunistic ways of getting the rest the shit to subsidize it.
- [40:41]
Mike Pesca
Right. And 60 Minutes had an unbelievable brand, which helps. And it's right after football, which is the only thing we watch. And they do a great job. The actual quality helps. There's three stories, narrative stories. You add it all up. I'm still a little surprised that they're hanging on and they might be sued out of existence or Sherry Redstone might say no. My Sky Dance deal. Can't believe there's a real company called Skydance. But my Skydance deal relies on it. Yeah, but you're right about that. I will. This is interesting though. If you look at the number the ratings of broadcast tv. So not during football season, which is just stupid. Every single top 20 rated show is football. It's the number one show is something called. Tell me if you ever wait. We'll do a. We'll do a trivia question. Have you heard of the number one rated show on broadcast tv? Is it called Reacher Fracker or Hunter?
- [41:36]
Josh Barrow
Tracker.
- [41:37]
Mike Pesca
Yes, Tracker. Very good. So Tracker is the number one rated show and playing this with the wrong person. Yes, it's a son of Hollywood. Exactly. So tracker gets 7 million and then right after it most nights. And this is not the whatever like how they let you watch it on delay. And they do, you know, n +12 for 24 hours is ABC World News Tonight with David Muir. That also gets 7 million ish viewers. Now it's the exact opposite of 60 Minutes. And I guess people like to check in. And mostly it's a sign of how much ratings have absolutely cratered. So that 7 million is the number one show. But that's interesting. I think. I don't know what I could have guessed.
- [42:18]
Josh Barrow
You. I could have guessed Tracker. I wouldn't have guessed that the ABC News that followed it kept the numbers remotely that high.
- [42:27]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, yeah, it's. And again, if you factor in, you know, people watching it on delay, it's not true. But yeah, just that night, the overnights, it's ABC News and NBC does well and CBS is actually paying for itself. So interesting. And how bad.
- [42:42]
Josh Barrow
I guess one of the problems with it, with those numbers is that if I was an executive in any of those three companies, I would be like, we have. Our ratings at network television have dropped so low that now literally this is a signal that all that's left are the ones that no one is changing the channel that like this is that it's just a hotel, an airport, it's hospital beds. And they're going, fuck it. Now it's the news.
- [43:08]
Mike Pesca
I guess basically you'd be storming into the entertainment division, waving the ratings, saying, do you see what's happening? The fact that they're watching the news as well as trackers the same level. So let me ask you about. Now, if people don't know. And by people, I mean there's apparently one person who's been watching it. I don't know what happened? Are you seeing stats that indicate more than one person are with us?
- [43:34]
Josh Barrow
I mean, I've seen people say, joined on the little list.
- [43:39]
Mike Pesca
Okay, the stats aren't working for me, but we're gonna play this, and people will sing our praises afterwards. Trust me, it will be remembered. It'll be one of those forgotten artifacts that the Cognizanti finds, and, you know, it orients them. But if people don't know you're a son of Hollywood, your dad is and was and is Richard Dreyfuss. And what's cool about you is you don't mind talking about it. Like, everyone who wants. Everyone who meets you probably wants to talk about the things you want to talk about because you're an interesting guy. And then someone could say, hey, wait a minute, when they were making Mr. Holland's opus. And you're right there. You're talking about it, right?
- [44:17]
Josh Barrow
I'm joking. When I. When I walked away, that was a joke. Yeah.
- [44:20]
Mike Pesca
You're cool with that? Yeah. So I want to ask you, from what, you know, the part of the Tapper book where so much was what Hollywood and George Clooney said about it and how Hollywood turned against him, what's your analysis of that? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Or is that. Does. Did that surprise you at all?
- [44:38]
Josh Barrow
I mean, I don't think that my dad is famous enough to be invited to those things anymore. But. But I. I think that there's nothing about that story that felt. Felt fake to me. You know, I would imagine that George Clooney is the source for it. Oh, yeah, yeah, that. Because he also included that same anecdote in his thing. And I would imagine that I. I think there's a. They must have multiple sources, because it's described in the book as. It, like, describes, like, the. The reaction in ways that it can't. He can't be a one source. So I would imagine that there. They have other sources for it. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me at all that if this did happen, that people would go, all right, how do we avoid saying this? We. No one wants to give the election to Trump. But I. I also, in the retelling that I read in that book where, you know, George Clooney goes. He goes up George Clooney and doesn't recognize him at all. And then they go, I do think, like, it would lead.
- [45:41]
Mike Pesca
That's more shocking. That's more shocking with George Clooney.
- [45:45]
Ben Dreyfuss
Right.
- [45:45]
Mike Pesca
Than with Bill Daley or some other big donor, I think, right. I guess it also cuts through to the public. Like, how do we know that Biden was adult brained? Well, he forgot Jake Sullivan. And most people, like, who the fuck's Jake Sullivan? It's like he forgot George Clooney. What? This cannot stand.
- [46:03]
Josh Barrow
Totally. I mean, I think that's right. Like, literally nobody knows what Jake Sullivan looks like, you know, but like, everyone's like, like George Clooney, you know, Even though in reality it's probably. It's certainly a much bigger deal when it happens with Jake Sullivan who he spends every day with or whatever. But, like, it's. Yeah. I mean, the main thing is, is that, like, I guess. I guess I have seen people try to push back on that anecdote. But, like, what does George Clooney have to gain from. From lying about this? George Clooney is a partisan Democrat who wants these people to do well. He's not being like, oh, I need my one shot. I'm gonna. I'm gonna fall. I'm gonna like, come up with this elaborate, ridiculous story.
- [46:41]
Mike Pesca
Right? And he. Yes. And he want. Would it be more troubling if Biden did recognize Clooney, but only from Facts of Life? And er, yeah.
- [46:51]
Josh Barrow
That he was like, er, yo, this is Batman from Batman and Robin.
- [46:55]
Mike Pesca
He was like, weren't you, Weren't you the heartthrob at Edna's Edibles during the last season of Fact?
- [47:03]
Josh Barrow
Or if he just kept calling him a heartthrob, that would be.
- [47:07]
Mike Pesca
Dude that fell. That feller is easy on the eyes. Yeah, yeah, I heard. I heard your dad on a Megyn Kelly podcast a few, maybe two years ago. And it was clear that the terms, the perhaps unstated terms of the interview was Megan's. Like, I'm going to ask you every question. I always wanted to ask Richard Dreyfus about Jaws and everything else. And then I'll let you say something about politics, but we'll quickly get out of there, right?
- [47:31]
Josh Barrow
Sounds about right.
- [47:35]
Mike Pesca
So let me. And let me ask you this. There was something going around on Twitter which isn't real life. What movie was better than the book? And I hate this question because there are a lot and there are different art forms, but the answer is clearly Jaws. Have you ever read the book by Benchley, Jaws?
- [47:51]
Josh Barrow
I did read the book, obviously after seeing the movie, but yeah, it's not as good. Peter Benchley isn't a terribly good author. But also, I mean, the famous thing about that, it just goes to show how like Steven Spielberg and Carl Gottlieb, the Author of the screenplay. But like Steven is the one who basically like made Jaws good because he read the book and was like, I want it to be a bullet. Like I want, I want it to be like the shark comes and bang, the movie's off. So when I drop all this dumb bullshit about like politics and like the mafia and then like he was totally right. And then when you read, read the novel, which had already been a bestseller, but like it, it was a bestseller, but it wasn't, it didn't revolutionize the world in the way that Jaws the movie did because. And I guess the answer to that is that jaw like tldr. Steven Spielberg is a smart guy.
- [48:43]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, yeah. Although he shows up in the book as someone who could give Joe Biden advice about the right mics to use. And I gotta say, your regular guy who's hired to do ops for or public events for public speaking actually knows more about M and how to speak, how to mic a speaker in public than Steven Spielberg.
- [49:04]
Josh Barrow
I did think it was funny in the book when they said that where they're like, yeah, we had to get Steven to come and teach him about the mics. And it was like, okay, I guess you're thinking like, there's only one guy he'll think he'll take notes from. But Steven probably should be doing top level notes. He probably doesn't need to be like, here's how the love works or whatever.
- [49:24]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Sibilance. Sibilance. Yeah. Do you know if Jaws were written today, an option Today someone like David Simon would option it and make it into an eight part series. And six of the parts would be about the internal politics of Amity Island. That's what it would be.
- [49:42]
Josh Barrow
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'd watch it.
- [49:47]
Mike Pesca
Although Amity island did have fucked up politics for sure. Who was the mayor? He was. He, he, I don't know, was he the guy who played the general in, in, in War Games who said pull out the plug and piss on the spark plug? It seemed like that kind of guy. The whopper.
- [50:05]
Josh Barrow
I don't know the actor who was that person. But he comes my favorite. He's, he's in the sequel, you know that he won reelection.
- [50:12]
Mike Pesca
Yes, that's a good point. Yes. Have you seen Jaws? When did you stop watching the Jaws? Did you see 3D?
- [50:20]
Josh Barrow
I've seen all of the dragons. I've seen, I've seen all of them. I, I've seen the first one obviously upwards of 100 times or something like that, but I've seen The other ones, you know, a few times each. I've seen 3D. It's the one that takes place at the, at a SeaWorld. And I've also seen Jaws the Revenge. Just because it's so stupid that he. The Jaws, suddenly the mother goes on a, like a cat and mouse game of revenge against the family because fish.
- [50:51]
Mike Pesca
Have this long term grudges.
- [50:53]
Josh Barrow
Yeah. Wow. But I, I think that they should, they should, they should like do a, a legacy sequel to Drive now and like it doesn't need to be a full reboot, but they should just like do a legacy sequel like they love to do and you know, some goes down and then they need to find the one man who was around there the last time it happened. And the last survivor happens to be old, old Matt Hooper.
- [51:21]
Mike Pesca
Yep, yep.
- [51:23]
Josh Barrow
A band of attractive, young, multiracial Gen Z people can go out on a new orca and kill the shark.
- [51:32]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. Didn't all the Jaws. Jaws sequels like lose 10 minutes of running time because they were like, wasn't the last one like 81 minutes at most?
- [51:41]
Josh Barrow
I'm sure. I mean, I don't think I, I, you know, the second one made money, but like the third and fourth and fifth all, all, there was a lot of, you know, real dropping returns there, diminishing returns.
- [51:53]
Mike Pesca
Why do you think other franchises like Fast and Furious or Harry Potter, maybe because like some built in good ip. But why didn't they succumb to the same joke of falling off of sequels that Rocky did, that Jaws did, that Superman did. Did Hollywood get smarter about this?
- [52:09]
Josh Barrow
Well, Rocky only had one bad sequel and it was Rocky 5 and that was a bad one. But that's only bad.
- [52:15]
Mike Pesca
Rocky Balboa was not a good movie. It's hard to watch. You probably forget that because the unnumbered.
- [52:20]
Josh Barrow
Rockies, people liked it a lot. People liked, yeah, it got critically acclaimed. They came back and he, he did. Well, you might not like it, but it was critically acclaimed.
- [52:31]
Mike Pesca
Was Rocky 5 the one with Tommy Machine Gun Kelly?
- [52:34]
Josh Barrow
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like the truth is, is that, I mean all those things that you described, like, I mean, Harry Potter is one story and the Fast and the Furious, they're doing the same, they're doing hyper heists each time. The problem with Jaws is that like, well, these have to be the stupidest fucking people in the world if they're gonna have a shark attacking them again. You know, you can't do, do it really again with the same people. Like.
- [52:59]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, yeah, right, exactly. Wizards, Wizards can leave Hogwarts, right? Right. Same deal with Piranha, you know, go to a different river to take an early Steven Spielberg. I think back then they didn't understand ip. And thank God they didn't, you know. Cause you could have.
- [53:17]
Josh Barrow
Yeah, they definitely didn't understand it until like, the 21st century, really. Or like, how to monetize it that way to, like, how to, like, turn it. Because even, I mean, even the, like, even the ones that they did have, where they have, you know, Dirty Harry and Die Hard and Lethal Weapon and things like that, those are, those, those were embryonic versions of this. It wasn't until they got into like, the 21st century where they were like, what if we just ran it back and these were going to make hundreds of millions of dollars by having the little boy with the head do more magic.
- [53:51]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. And then, and then all the Die Hards had their actual sequels, but then there were, I guess, quasi or symbolic sequels where all these other movies were, you know, Die Hard on a Bus with Speed and Die Hard on a Boat and Die Hard. Yeah. And so I guess now a movie studio would have locked that up and just not allow that to happen organically with other places somehow they'd own that whole idea.
- [54:17]
Josh Barrow
Yeah, people always make jokes about Die Hard on. On an oil tanker or whatever, but, like, the truth is I've known that Hollywood was ready to make Die Hard on an X my entire life, and it's actually kind of hard to make it work. You know, like, there have been a lot of stories about, like, Die Hard on oil tanker famously turned into the movie with. Was it Sylvester Stallone where he goes climbing cliffhanger.
- [54:44]
Mike Pesca
Oh, yeah, yeah, Cliffhanger. Oh, so it wasn't the Steven Seagal one. He did an oil tanker did. He didn't. Deadly Ground.
- [54:51]
Josh Barrow
Yeah, he directed that one. That was the. That was the one that he went to direct it. But no, like, Sylvester Stallone was signed on for Die Hard on an oil tanker and then that got killed, but he'd already taken the money. And so they ended up moving it toward Die Hard on a mountain and it became Cliffhanger, which, like, is the stupidest movie in the world. But it's brilliant. You know, it's so much fun to watch.
- [55:17]
Mike Pesca
I think the LA Times named its first 92nd or minute and a half opening, pre credit opening, which is great. And shot really well as one of its top 10 movies of the year. Explicitly saying, not the rest of it, but just this part. Yeah, yeah. Where are you on movies? I mean, if you had to jettison if you had to jettison one media for the rest of your life. And we said movies, books, or television or the theater or panel discussions with centrists. Okay, take that one off the table. Which, yeah. Which would be, which would you. Because for me, I would say I, I would live without movies if I could have the other ones. How about you?
- [55:54]
Josh Barrow
Theater.
- [55:56]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, Yeah, I just, I don't know.
- [55:58]
Josh Barrow
Theater, we shoot in the back of the head. That's not intense.
- [56:02]
Mike Pesca
Okay. John Wilkes Booth. All right. Six Semper Tyrannis.
- [56:10]
Josh Barrow
What is, what is. Who am I trying to impress by saying theater?
- [56:15]
Mike Pesca
Maybe because I said theater. Live performance, we include stand up. I'm gonna include the panel discussion. People doing things Right.
- [56:23]
Josh Barrow
Live performance, Shoot it in the head. I don't need that. I'm not gonna shoot movies or television. I think that music is quite good. I like the music and I have, I respect books, the written word as well. Book. But I, I, I'm happy to shoot the live performances on the head.
- [56:41]
Mike Pesca
And what if, what if I gave you an even, an even playing field and giving you the most high flute version? So I said theater. You said the written word. What if I were to say cinema? Yeah.
- [56:54]
Josh Barrow
Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Do you mean. Are you asking me about, like, the fancy, like the art house cinema?
- [57:00]
Mike Pesca
I'm saying if I don't need one and a half. If that one and a half hour to two and a half hour form were somehow to be transformed or to go away or whatever.
- [57:12]
Josh Barrow
I think, I don't, I don't agree. I don't want to get rid of it. I don't want to.
- [57:15]
Mike Pesca
I understand not wanting to, but given what television has become and what television does, I think it supplanted it, you know?
- [57:23]
Josh Barrow
Sure. Television is great too. I love television. Television.
- [57:27]
Mike Pesca
You and your scorching hot takes.
- [57:29]
Josh Barrow
I love television is my girl, all television is. I love television, but I'm not getting rid of movies. The fact is movies are not getting. I don't, I don't. I'll get rid of books before I get rid of movies.
- [57:39]
Mike Pesca
Okay, but then what will they adapt for the movies?
- [57:42]
Josh Barrow
We don't, I don't need them to be adapted. We'll just write movies. We'll just write the movies.
- [57:52]
Ben Dreyfuss
And that's it for today's show. Michelle Peska's CBSO question. Corey Warr is the producer. Ashley Khan is co. Cbso. Kathleen Sykes writes up the old gist list. Oh, you should, you should check it out. It's very educational. Astrid Green does our socials, and Leo Baum, he does a little bit of everything Uber g?
- [58:15]
Mike Pesca
Peru du Prue.
- [58:15]
Ben Dreyfuss
Thanks for listening.