The Great Houthi Whoopsie

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Gist – "The Great Houthi Whoopsie"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Gist
• Host/Author: Peach Fish Productions
• Description: For thirty minutes each day, Mike Pesca challenges himself and his audience in a responsibly provocative style, moving beyond rigidity and dogma. The Gist is surprising, reasonable, and willing to critique the left, the right, either party, or any idea.
• Episode: The Great Houthi Whoopsie
• Release Date: March 25, 2025

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1. Introduction and Breaking News

Mike Pesca opens the episode with a humorous take on current events, immediately diving into serious news. At [01:21], he announces that "genetic testing company 23andMe has now filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection." Pesca critiques the sustainability of such companies, joking, “Given the fact that 23andMe was once a $6 billion company, but not really. It was valued at that but that wasn't the actual worth because the problem is after you use it once...” He humorously outlines a convoluted process to delete genetic data, highlighting privacy concerns:

“You need to pick a password without any common phrases or sequential numbers too. You need to try to identify which picture is a motorcycle. And three, you need to learn to use CRISPR to decode the human genome.” [01:45]

Pesca underscores the precariousness of personal data in the digital age, especially when companies undergo financial restructuring.

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2. Advertising Break Skipped

The segment includes advertisements for Funny You Should Mention and sponsors like Sol's Out of Office Beverages and Quince. As per the instructions, these sections are omitted from the summary to focus solely on content-rich discussions.

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3. Main Discussion: Comedy Trends with Chris Gethard

At [07:00], Chris Gethard, a renowned comedian and host of the podcast Beautiful Anonymous, joins Pesca to discuss the evolving landscape of comedy. The conversation delves deep into how social media and algorithm-driven platforms are reshaping what is deemed successful in comedy.

Key Points:

• Shift in Comedy Dynamics: Gethard expresses frustration with the current trends, stating, “the cheap adrenaline rush that really, really works on platforms.” He laments that platforms favor aggressive, crowd-pleasing content over nuanced, thoughtful humor. [08:55]

• Impact of Algorithms: He observes, “comedians who busted out with some stuff along those lines, who have said... Now, going on national television on a late night show... does not sell nearly as many tickets as a TikTok clip can, as an Instagram reel can.” [09:25] This highlights the disparity between traditional media success and social media virality.

• Historical Context: Gethard draws parallels with past shifts in comedy, such as the “Edinburghation of comedy,” where personal, emotional storytelling gained prominence. He notes the backlash from traditional comedians during that period, saying, “Everybody was mad at that.” [10:15]

• Generational Divide: He discusses how newer comedians leveraging platforms like TikTok are disrupting the established norms, causing friction within the comedy community. [11:14]

• Personal Anecdotes: Gethard shares his own experiences navigating these changes, including conflicts arising from misunderstandings and generational differences within the comedic world. He references his altercation with Shane Gillis, explaining how it affected his relationships and career. [15:14]

Notable Quotes:

"Platforms reward it more than anything, you know... I want to be clear. And thank you for drawing that line because again, make your money, pay your rent, I don't care."
— Chris Gethard, [08:55]

“Every time you start to see any type of artistic scene become a little bit eating its own tail.”
— Chris Gethard, [14:28]

“It affects your ability to feed their kids. Shut up. That's part of the code.”
— Chris Gethard, [22:51]

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4. The Great Houthi Whoopsie: Operational Security and Political Fallout

Transitioning from comedy, Pesca introduces the main topic at [30:08], titled "The Great Houthi Whoopsie." This segment examines a significant breach in operational security involving high-profile individuals.

Key Events:

• Signal Group Chat Incident: Jeffrey Goldberg, a prominent Atlantic editor, was inadvertently added to a sensitive Signal group chat that included the National Security Advisor John Ratcliffe and other key figures like Senator Jon Ossoff, Vice President J.D. Vance, and Pete Hegseth. The chat discussed military operations against the Houthis, raising concerns about the mishandling of classified information.

• Repercussions: The leak led to a Senate Intelligence Committee hearing where Senator Jon Ossoff criticized Director Ratcliffe for the oversight, stating it was "a huge mistake," only to be corrected as "This is utterly unprofessional." [32:50]

• Public and Political Response: The incident sparked debates about operational security, transparency, and the role of journalists in sensitive governmental discussions. Pesca highlights Pete Hegseth's vehement defense of the administration’s actions and his derogatory remarks about Goldberg, calling him a "deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist." [36:30]

Notable Quotes:

“Director Radcliffe, this was a huge mistake, correct?... No, no. You. No, no, Director Radcliffe. I say yes or no question, and now you hold on.”
— Senator Jon Ossoff at the hearing, [32:50]

“You're talking about a deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist who's made a profession of peddling hoaxes time and time again.”
— Pete Hegseth about Jeffrey Goldberg, [37:09]

• Jeffrey Goldberg’s Defense: Goldberg responds by clarifying his intentions and emphasizing his desire to understand military strategies rather than disseminate sensitive information. He expresses frustration with the White House's stance on the classification of the information and the ensuing backlash. [34:35]

“I want to know the strategy. I want to know the arguments. I want to know our foreign policy posture. I want to know after action...”
— Jeffrey Goldberg, [34:35]

Implications:

• Operational Security Risks: The incident underscores the vulnerabilities in secure communication channels and the potential consequences of unintentional information leaks.

• Political Fallout: The public nature of the discussion has led to increased scrutiny of the administration's handling of sensitive information and raised questions about accountability.

• Media Ethics: Goldberg’s involvement brings to light the delicate balance journalists must maintain when accessing and reporting on classified or sensitive governmental discussions.

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5. Conclusion and Reflections

In wrapping up the episode, Pesca reflects on the broader implications of both the discussion with Gethard and the Houthi incident. He underscores the importance of maintaining ethical standards in both comedy and journalism, emphasizing the long-term consequences of breaches—be it in creative integrity or national security.

Final Thoughts:

• Comedy Community Dynamics: The conversation with Gethard serves as a microcosm for larger societal shifts, illustrating how industries must adapt to evolving platforms and audience expectations while grappling with internal conflicts.

• National Security and Media Responsibility: The Houthi Whoopsie highlights the critical need for stringent operational security measures and the ethical responsibilities of journalists in protecting sensitive information.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

• Chris Gethard on Comedy Trends:
  “Platforms reward it more than anything, you know... I want to be clear. And thank you for drawing that line because again, make your money, pay your rent, I don't care.” [08:55]

• Chris Gethard on Artistic Scenes:
  “Every time you start to see any type of artistic scene become a little bit eating its own tail.” [14:28]

• Chris Gethard on Comedy Ethics:
  “It affects your ability to feed their kids. Shut up. That's part of the code.” [22:51]

• Senator Jon Ossoff’s Hearing Statement:
  “Director Radcliffe, this was a huge mistake, correct?... No, no. You. No, no, Director Radcliffe. I say yes or no question, and now you hold on.” [32:50]

• Pete Hegseth on Jeffrey Goldberg:
  “You're talking about a deceitful and highly discredited so-called journalist who's made a profession of peddling hoaxes time and time again.” [37:09]

• Jeffrey Goldberg’s Statement:
  “I want to know the strategy. I want to know the arguments. I want to know our foreign policy posture. I want to know after action...” [34:35]

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Conclusion:

In "The Great Houthi Whoopsie," The Gist masterfully blends humor with incisive analysis, navigating through the complexities of modern comedy and the intricate challenges of national security communications. Through engaging dialogue with Chris Gethard and a thorough examination of a high-stakes operational security breach, Mike Pesca delivers a thought-provoking episode that resonates with both entertainment and political discourse enthusiasts.

Transcript

[Mike Pesca]

Hilarity will ensue. For the second season of Funny you should mention debuting both in this here channel on the gist and as its own feed on Funny you should mention. Funny you should mention Season two features my conversations with such comedians as Rosebud Baker, Michelle Bouteau, Alex Edelman, TJ Miller. Where we sit down and I ask them to do you really believe that? Is that why you said it? Is it the funniest way to say it? Is it the truest way to say it? Sometimes we describe it as unpacking the profundities and punchlines. Yeah, I know that's alliterative, but what I'm trying to get at is comedians are like the modern philosophers of our time, so I asked them about their philosophy. Funny you should mention like I said has its own feed. Subscribing there will give you bonus materials and make sure you never miss an episode or or every other week in the gist starting on April 4th. It's Tuesday, March 25th, 2025. From peach fish Productions, it's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca. Your DNA may soon be available at a Menlo park yard sale or in the remainder's bin at your local Sam Goody. I think you know what I'm getting at, even if you believe my name to be Sophie. Sophie.

[Chris Gethard]

Thank you.

[Mike Pesca]

We've got some breaking news to get to. Genetic testing company 23andMe has now filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The firm valued at $50 million is pushing for a buyout Notice how he had to emphasize the million million like it's a lot. It's not really. Given the fact that 23andMe was once a $6 billion company, but not really. It was valued at that but that wasn't the actual worth because the problem is after you use it once. Huh. I'm a 16th CRE Indian who knew what is the case to reuse it. I mean maybe if in between the first and second use an uncle of yours does some serial killing that could be informative. But really this was more a one time parlor trick. Now I've been reading articles about how to delete your 23 and me and the key seems to be a, there's a, there's a process, three part process. It's a just news you can use segment and you'll thank me and Sophie afterwards. So what you need to do is you need to pick a password without any common phrases or sequential numbers too. You need to try to identify which picture is a motorcycle. And three, you need to learn to use CRISPR to decode the human genome. Now there is actually a permanently delete feature, but if you don't choose to use it or forgot that someone gave you 23andMe, guess what terms you agreed to when you signed up? I'll read them. Quote if we this 23andMe terms of agreement. If we are involved in a bankruptcy, merger, acquisition, reorganization or sale of assets, your personal information may be accessed, sold, or transferred as part of that transaction. And ladies and gentlemen, that time is upon us. Now maybe the new buyer will only want to market you medical products given that they've determined you have a genetic predisposition to tow fungus. Either way, good luck and may your Cree ancestors rest assured in the knowledge that their great, great grandchild is probably not being cloned. Probably. On the show today, I'll have a plug of an article in the Free Press based on my two part spiel about that subway shooting. I did the spiel a couple of weeks ago and I'm going to tease not only the article, but on Thursday a third part of the two part spiel. We'll call it a three part spiel. @ that point that's going to hit the just feed. People are clamoring for this one. But first, today's spiel is about the Atlantic editor involved in the signal chat, the Houthi Whoopsie, if you will. But first, Chris Gethard is back. Today, the standup and improviser talks about how the latest trends in comedy don't favor the kind of comedy he likes to do and how Shane Gillis and he had a heart to heart after Gillis derisively chided Brown. Kind of out of nowhere. Interesting stuff. Stay tuned. And by the way, I looked it up. 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They only work with the factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I have a Mongolian sweater. The that's the one. I have worn it on a few of the videos that we put out so you could see it. You'll never know how good it feels from the inside, but I'm here to tell you it's plenty good. Indulge your affordable luxury. Go to quince.com the gist for free shipping on your order and a 365 day return. That's Q U I N C E dot com the gist to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com the gist Chris Gethard is host of Beautiful Anonymous which is a great podcast. It's very heartfelt podcast. Chris, a very heartfelt guy. He does improv, he's one of the greats. He does storytelling and he does stand up comedy. And last episode and we're going to take the conversation into this episode we talk about what comedy has become and what comedy has become is to a large extent putting up a lot of clips of crowd work on social media and maybe being a little aggressive with and to the audience. So my first question was kind of a devil's advocate, but there is a certain kind of comedian who's Good at improv, good at interacting with the audience, and might say, look, this is what the algorithms are rewarding. At one point in comedy, comedian might say, oh man, I don't want to do comedy albums. But that's what comedy had become. So you do the albums. Now the definition of comedy is something like doing a lot of crowd work and maybe posting it on social media and maybe showing up the audience. But it seems to me, Chris, that if the audience members seem like they're into it and it's all in good fun and there's no real evidence that the audience is generally souring on comedy, I wonder about the tension, I wonder about the tension of you as a comic not loving where comedy is going versus this, what comedy seems to be and what the audience seems to be responding to.

[Chris Gethard]

It's not bad. I want to be clear. And thank you for drawing that line because again, make your money, pay your rent, I don't care. I'm not mad at the comedians so much as I am mad at the infrastructure that it's, it's, it's the cheap adrenaline rush that really, really works on platforms. And the platforms reward it more than anything, you know, And I actually know a lot of comedians who, younger comedians who busted out with some stuff along those lines, who I've talked to, who have said, and now I go on the road and I want to do the hour I work really hard on. And people keep yelling at me because I established myself as, as that. Now, that being said, I'm also sitting here complaining in a way that's really cliche. I've been a beneficiary of other trends that have annoyed the shit out of comedians. This is just a trend, but it's one that I think is particularly overwhelming in its quickness and its widespread nature and the severity to which it affects ticket sales. Like, you can talk to any agent right now who will tell you going on national television on a late night show. Fallon, Colbert, Seth Meyers does not sell nearly as many tickets as a TikTok clip can, as an Instagram reel can. And that is such a gear shift. So it's head spinning. That being said, there was a long stretch where it was like, take a show to the Edinburgh Comedy Festival and make it really emo and in touch with your emotions. And more of a one person show that doesn't have as many jokes. I directly did that in 2016 and that show wound up on HBO. And guess what? Comedians were so mad about the Edinburghation of comedy. You used to hear that Phrase a lot. I used to take shit for it. You want these Edinburgh guys now gathered? We didn't think you were ever going to be one of these Edinburgh people out there. Fucking, you're going to go just do a show with no jokes, crying into your fucking Guinness like the rest of these fucking Brits crying into their pints like, everybody was mad at that. There was a long stretch where it was, hey, if you want to get a TV job, you got to be an improv person. I directly benefited from that. That annoyed the shit out of the standup world. The amount of press that the UCB theater was getting back then was so annoying to so many hardworking comedians. So while this current trend is annoying me and I'm not directly benefiting from it, again, I want to say all the people who are benefiting to it, more power to you. Just let's also think long term, you know, let's just also think long term.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you think when those annoyed comedians, when the pendulum shifted, they were a little too punitive in their attitudes towards others who enjoyed a pendulum shift in the other direction at one point?

[Chris Gethard]

I think there's probably some revenge. There's probably some revenge on the sensitive folks right now. I think you're correct.

[Mike Pesca]

This is your whole life is the story. It's just life is a cycle of being bullied.

[Chris Gethard]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Then getting out, then having a moment in the sun when we have sympathy for the bullies, and then being bullied again. And you probably see it playing out not just on a personal and professional level, but a national level.

[Chris Gethard]

Yeah. I'll also say this, too. I think some of this was constructed there became. You started to realize around and again, like, you know, movements that were really powerful. But think about comedy's relationship with the MeToo movement. You started to see that think pieces about comedy in general. Got a ton of clicks. And I actually get very upset on behalf of all comedians. I mean, I can mostly speak as like a northeastern New York scene comedian. There was an article that came out years ago that basically presupposed, hey, you're either an alt comedian or a club comedian, and they fucking hate each other. So pick a side, both as a comedian and an audience member. Which one do you like more? And it was from a very influential publication that has done a lot of good for comedians. But I read it and I went, that is not true. Nobody's sitting around going, we hate the club guys in the side splitter.

[Mike Pesca]

Was it that one?

[Chris Gethard]

It was. No, it was after. It was. It was. I Believe it was Vulture. Okay, yeah, I believe it was Vulture, But I read that and I was like, that's not true. People of a certain level don't give a about this. If you want to go be an alt person, if you can sell tickets and fill the room up and make people laugh, club guys want to jump on the good alt shows. And alt people who get good enough doing their weirdo stuff, like, you can go see Aziz Ansari and Dimitri Martin drop in at the Cellar from time to time. Now, they started as alt guys, but they realized those stages are fucking awesome. Let's do them. Used to do shows at UCB where you'd see Louis CK on the show, you'd see Colin Quinn on the show. These are guys who were viewed as definitive club guys. But a hot room is a hot room, and an audience that's appreciative of good shit is an audience that's appreciative of good shit. And some of those think pieces also fueled this division, which I think also leads to this real punitive attack style. Inhabit your corner of the world and talk about the other corners of the world. That's not good for anybody long term. Now, short term, it might be really good for people, right, to be the hot hand. That's the biggest shit talking, that creates the most drama, that gets the most clicks. But long term, this is not healthy. And it bums me out. It bums me out.

[Mike Pesca]

And since you're so well aware of how these battles played out in different music scenes over time, I don't know, there must have been a part of you saying, we're really going through this again. We're not learning anything about post punk cbgb, you know, television and the Talking Heads versus the Ramones. We're not learning anything from that.

[Chris Gethard]

Who sold out, who didn't. It's like every time you start to see any type of artistic scene become a little bit eating its own tail.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Gethard]

And a little, you know, sniff it sniffing its own farts. And, you know, when you now see podcasts where comedians talk about each other on podcasts, and then other podcasters start dissecting the talk from those podcasts, and there's entire YouTube channels that now dissect comedian talk between podcasts. I go, anytime you've seen an artistic movement start to sniff its own farts, this religiously, it eventually fucking bottoms out. It gets. It becomes a bummer. So, yeah, I don't know. But here's me, here's get there complaining about the state of comedy again for the fucking 10,000th time.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, I do want to ask you this a couple times in the conversation, you said something that I've never asked you about, but you've talked about it. Shane Gillis was bounced from SNL or disinvited to be on, and he had. You didn't ask for it. But I think in the original reporting on this, there was references to him calling Chris Gethard extremely nasty things. And I don't know, I never heard the tapes. He expunged the tapes and at one point he said something like, I really offended anyone. Or maybe it was more like, oh, if I really offended anyone, I'll apologize. They should reach out to me. And you did. What did you hope to get out of that?

[Chris Gethard]

It was. Well, there's more to it than that. First of all, I'll say this. Shane and I have talked it out a number of times, and he's also crushing it right now. He's one of the biggest comedians of the world right now. So if there was ever a world that was like Shane Gillis versus Chris Gether, like he's won that war, he let me know. You know, it was more layers to that. Like, basically I found out that he and I were managed by the same company and. And people had been like, texting me jokes, and I was like, wait, if you manage them too, this is not a joke. We gotta, like, deal with this. It's not cool, you know, but like, like, I'm willing to let it roll off my back. But if you manage him, are you texting him jokes about me at the same time? Like, no, no, no, no, no. You gotta slice through it. And he called me the day after all that came out. He was like, dude, like, as soon as I got to New York, it was actually very touching in a way because there were a bunch of comedians that turned to him and they were like, hey, man, like, get third act is a little weird and it's a little soft. But he told me Dan Soder was someone that, that he's really close with who was like, I don't really get, like, picking on Gethard, man. Like, and I've thanked Dan for that. And I don't want to air out Dan too much or put them in any sort of weird beef or set their fans off. But, like, a few comedians in New York were like, hey, man, like, his act is not like ours. He tells 10 minute long stories, he does weird on public access, but anytime that dude's ever gotten any success, he tries to give like five other New York comedians, their first writing job, so what's wrong with that? And a lot of people stepped up on my behalf and. And Shane actually reached out to me immediately and was like, dude, I was fucking like your HBO special There even a couple things that made me giggle. Like, he went off on me for about half an hour in that original audio.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Gethard]

Which was hard to listen to. Half an hour of getting shitted on. Like. But I even. I can laugh when he's like, man, this guy does comedy for, like, girls sitting cross legged on rugs. What is this? And I'm like, I can laugh at that. I can understand that. I am not your traditional. The image of a brick wall behind me in a smoky room with a shot glass on the stool, that's not me. I can laugh at that. And he and I talked it out and we've actually shaken hands, you know, a couple times now, run into each other at the Comedy Cellar. We had one tense conversation there. But one of the things that, you know, I was able to say was like, you've let me know that you regret it. You know, he's like, I shouldn't have been shitting on another comic. And as soon as I moved to New York, other people were like, dude, stop trying to make fun of Gethard. Like, he's a pretty good guy, does his own thing, doesn't bother anybody. Like, people stepped up and told him that.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Gethard]

The problem is that it, you know, if I'm being honest, still get people. And it will happen from him being brought up here. Fans of his are now going to tweet at me and call me homophobic names. They're gonna call me a crybaby. They're all this stuff. And they're gonna use really harsh language, Internet language from anonymous accounts. And I sit here and I go, oh, this is. To me, this is like the type of thing that just. I'm in this one, but separating myself from it, it bums me out. This culture of comedian versus comedian talk to get ahead. This culture of say something 10 years ago. And even if you don't stand by it anymore, fans who maybe found the audio three months ago are still gonna get a lot of Glee out of on me. And I'm not trying to be a baby about it, but I sit here, I go, there's just times where I'm home and I'm like trying to, like, wrap up work so I can go play with my five year old son. And then right before I wrap up work, I see a Twitter notification that's Just someone calling me a homophobic name. Because Shane cracked open that door however many years ago.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Gethard]

And I think he would probably be bummed to hear that. And it was funny. Like, what people don't know. And his fans come at me. What people don't realize is I'm like, there is a code of ethics that I stand by. And I think being an artist and being a comedian in particular, there's certain rules that I was always taught you play by. And I actually play by them more than the people who have talked shit about me play by them. The New York Times reached out for me for a comment about Shane, and if you go and read it, I was just like, man, you know, he and I have talked about it. So I don't really have any interest in continuing some sort of fight. And if anything, I just hope young comedians realize they don't need to just like, obsessively record and release stuff in their younger days, because I think that's what bit him in the ass here. And he texted me immediately and was like, you could have made my life worse. And you chose not to. And the new. The New York Times was giving you free range to get revenge on me, and you chose not to. Thanks for that, man. I'm like, yeah, no problem, dude. What people don't realize is there were a couple times where I texted him because we had exchanged numbers and talked on the phone, where I texted him and said, how are you holding up, man? This. This seems brutal. And even though I'm pissed that I got dragged into it, since we were talking, how are you? And he was able to go like, hey, thanks for sending that. Not many people are sending stuff that basic. Everybody wants to gossip right now. Yeah, it takes the emo guy.

[Mike Pesca]

It takes the emo guy to see through it all.

[Chris Gethard]

Well, listen, here's the other one.

[Mike Pesca]

A little sensitivity, maybe.

[Chris Gethard]

I also sit here. I go, yeah, I'm a sensitive guy and I'm an emo guy, but ask anybody who's known me long enough. I'm also a pretty angry dude from North Jersey who had to learn how to defend myself along the way. Like, it's again, like the milieu of.

[Mike Pesca]

Guy that you grew up with and Shane's growing up in Pennsylvania are, you know, as close in the DNA chart. Closer than the human in the chimp, I would say.

[Chris Gethard]

We have a mutual friend who once said to me, you are both sort of like weird Northeastern Irish Catholics who have a lot of fucking feelings tied up in that upbringing. And you guys would actually Be best friends. If your relationship, you guys probably would be really, really tight if your relationship didn't start with one of you just talking shit about the other publicly, you know, like, so to me, again, it's just a bummer. It's just a bummer, you know, and not to be. I don't know, I don't want to say anything too melodramatic, but I sit here, I go the idea of like dissing each other for personal gain, really the only an analog is hip hop.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Gethard]

And you sit there and you go, sure. Like it's exciting, but like it has long term damaging effects, you know, like it has long term damaging effects. Like, it's not great. And I'm not saying anybody's gonna shot in the streets because they're talking about each other on podcasts. I'm not an idiot. I'm not trying to be that dramatic. But I will just say, cultures don't thrive through behavior that's rooted in, let's all snipe at each other. Like, that's the thing. And, and you know, it's funny because Shane and I talked it out, but there's some other. It became a little bit of a trend. There were a few other people in the wake of that who chose to take some pot shots at me.

[Mike Pesca]

It's like other lesser comedians who couldn't say to themselves, I'm having so much success, or success is the best revenge, or why even mire myself in this because I'm doing so well. That's the sort of maybe comedian who still latches onto it.

[Chris Gethard]

I don't even know them well enough to know, you know, and it only happened a handful of times. But what I started to realize was, oh, there's a cult. This is. There's a culture supporting this more than jokes. And I would actually sit there and say all these things. They're also the same type of people that tend to like Gatekeep on who's a quote unquote real comedian or not. Is an Edinburgh comedian less of a comedian than a comedy seller comedian? Well, I'm both right? And I've been passed at the Cellar longer than some of you shit talkers have done comedy, period. You know, like, I'm both. I've done both. The best people from all those areas will tell you that none of this shit matters and shut up. And I sit here and I go in the same way that, like, you know, if somebody gets to a joke first, you're not supposed to make that joke, even if you got a Sick joke on that topic. I play by that rule. You're allowed to talk at a bar or at the cellar table or in the green room, but don't talk publicly about other comedians. You affect their money, you affect their rent, you affect their mortgage, you affect their ability to feed their kids. Shut up. That's part of the code. There's all sorts of rules that I would say if you look at my career, I have faithfully played by the rules my culture taught me. And the people who had things to say about me not being a quote unquote, real comedian were the ones breaking those exact standards. Like, I don't give a shit, man. Like, I'm not trying to sound like a tough guy, but there's a bit of a magician's code to this comedy thing. I played by those rules and I always have. And then I got put in the crosshairs of some people who'd like to say I wasn't a real comedian. Well, guess what, you, in doing this are, in my opinion, breaking all the unwritten codes that we have with each other.

[Mike Pesca]

So what's an enforcement mechanism?

[Chris Gethard]

Yeah, like there's a lot of stuff that's supposed to happen behind closed doors. A lot of self regulation in the comedy world that everybody realized they could make money by making it podcasted and tick tocked and, and making it like an addictive almost in the same way that wrestling fans. There's a certain type of very nerdy wrestling fan. And I grew up a very nerdy wrestling fan. I still love wrestling. But we all know there's certain people that like to watch the matches, and there's certain people that like to hear, oh, hey, this guy's beefing with this guy backstage. And that's why they're on a tag team now instead of having the intercontinental title. And they're as addicted to the state. The talk of, of what Dave Meltzer is writing about in the dirt sheets, that's as fun for them as the actual wrestling. Right. Comedy successfully kept a lot of that shit behind closed doors. Does bum me out that I arbitrarily became the guy that some people put in the crosshairs as those things were, were changing, you know, as we started to expose the behind the scenes type of conversation.

[Mike Pesca]

But I'm just.

[Chris Gethard]

Anybody at the comedy seller table wants to say my special was too emo and didn't have enough punchlines. Sure, say it, say it there. But when it starts going public, to me, that violates the, the rule. And it's also like, I built an audience that's very loyal and very into what I do. And again, the other thing I want to stress, Mike, is just to remind all the Internet commenters, you brought it up. You know what I mean? Like, oh, yeah, I did.

[Mike Pesca]

That's on me.

[Chris Gethard]

No, and it's not. It's not even. I'm not mad at you about it. But I sit here, I go. It's. One of the things I've said to Shane was like, when we met each other in person, it was kind of tense, and I was like, you just gotta realize, man, like, you've apologized to me. We can shake hands, but, like, I don't think we're ever going to be buddies. Because your only real effect on my life is that people who think bullying is the. On, like, online bullies who, like, you point their things at me. And 99 of the time, I can brush it off. And then, like I said, every once in a while, I'm about to go pick up my son. And on the drive there, I'm like, why did this fucking shithead just tweet this dickhead ish thing at me? And to his credit, Shane has been like, yeah, no, that sucks. That sucks that people hearing audio from many years ago are tweeting at you today about it in a way that just gives you a bummer day. That sucks, you know?

[Mike Pesca]

But this is what I'm wondering. If there is the code and if there is the comedy equivalent of not breaking kayfabe, shouldn't there or wouldn't there be? If the code was very much ingrained in the way that comedy is done, wouldn't there be an enforcement mechanism? Like, I think about when unwritten codes are broken in sports or baseball or something, Something has to happen. Some guy gets a pitch in the ear, or we just saw some nonsense with college football. But these are the unwritten codes, and then people get put in place. But maybe what you were saying before, that the new way of comedy, the lack of gatekeeping does certainly allow for a lot of expression and more people to be found. But, you know, some benefits of the gate. The gate is that these are the sorts of things that are kept.

[Chris Gethard]

In some sense. Yeah, in some sense. And you also realize, too, people got to pay their rent, just like I said.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Chris Gethard]

Like, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I think some of this shit hurt my ticket sales, and that's fucked up. I have a kid. Yeah, some of this shit talk. I used to go to different towns and I have built my own audience, but I also used to just get comedy fans too. Certain percentage that were just like, cool, this guy's passed at the Comedy Cellar. I'll go. I think less of those people buy tickets for me now. These dickheads who have talked shit about me, affected my ability to feed my fucking kid. Fuck you. Like, I'm mad about that, you know, And I've never really had a chance to say that publicly, but there's truth to it. That being said, I think there's also, you know, you start to realize again, there was this really weird shift in culture and technology where between podcasts and then algorithmic driven video platforms, you started to see a massive and immediate financial reward for participating in it. And I do think there's a lot of younger comedians who got ahead via those platforms. And I love that there are younger comedians who took some shortcuts and I worry about that. Yeah, there are some veteran comedians who I think probably knew they were giving away a little bit of what you were indicating. They just give away culturally and them I have a problem with, let alone the fact that a lot of these conversations start to feel like photocopies of photocopies, you know?

[Mike Pesca]

Comedian, improviser, trailblazing. Talk show host Chris Gethard is the host of the podcast Beautiful Anonymous. You could hear that everywhere for free. Every month he does a show at the Upright Citizen Brigade theater in New York. Those shows sell out fast. You could also watch them online. And he tours the country. I won't plug all his dates. He's playing Honolulu in April. Chris Gethard, thank you so much.

[Chris Gethard]

Thank you. You're the best.

[Mike Pesca]

And now the spiel. Mike Walls follows Jeffrey Goldberg on Twitter, LinkedIn, Blue sky, and Twitch, where he streams as Apple -73, as he plays Marvel Rivals and no one cares. And then the National Security Advisor adds the Atlantic editor to a signal group and all hellfire rains down. And not just on the Houthis. That is what happened. Goldberg did not believe that Walls, J.D. vance, Pete Hegseth, and the gang would be having this conversation with him sitting right there in the corner taking notes. But that's what happened. They just added some guy named JG and hoped it might have been Jeff Goldberg, perhaps the late James Gandolfini. But no, it was Atlantic editor Jeffrey Goldberg. And what a conversation he was privy to. I got to say, as a matter of operational security, it did not inspire me. But from a vantage point of assessing US Decision making, it was fascinating. Most in the forum wanted to do what the administration eventually did. Fire upon the Houthis. Jeffrey Goldberg Also has no love for the Houthis and likely approved of the mission, which is lucky for the Principals Committee on Signal and Houthi haters everywhere, by the way, principles was spelled wrong in the Signal chat. Because what I'm saying is a different uninvited guest could have blown the entire mission, could have put American lives on the line or just scuttled it and had First Amendment protection on his side. And that journalist couldn't have been charged because the hypothetical interloper who might have behaved less responsibly or patriotically than Jeffrey Goldberg could have claimed. Well, there was no classified material here. That sounds crazy, right? But that's exactly what members of the chat group were saying on Capitol Hill today. In fact, they are insisting they're going beyond that, and they're insisting no mistakes were made. Here was Democratic Senator from Georgia Jon Ossoff talking at a Senate Intel Committee hearing to John Ratcliffe, CIA Director, who was in the Signal group.

[Chris Gethard]

Director Radcliffe, this was a huge mistake, correct?

No.

A national.

Hold on.

No, no.

You.

No, no, Director Radcliffe. I say yes or no question, and now you hold on. A national political reporter, you can characterize it if you want, was made privy the White House sensitive information about military operations against a foreign terrorist organization. And that wasn't a huge mistake. That wasn't a huge mistake. I think they characterized embarrassment. This is utterly unprofessional. There's been no apology. There has been no recognition of the gravity of this error. And by the way, we will get the full transcript of this chain, and your testimony will be measured carefully against its content.

[Mike Pesca]

Goldberg says he didn't even want to know. Not the whens in the House, at least. He talked to Tim Miller of the Bulwark today.

[Jeffrey Goldberg]

It might go against people's perception of what a reporter wants to know. I want to know the strategy. I want to know the arguments. I want to know our foreign policy posture. I want to know after action. I want to know if it worked or not, if they killed the right people or if they killed civilians by mistake. I want to know how bad the. I don't want to know what planes are flying when it's not information. I should have. Sorry. I just. I get very exercised about this because the White House is saying there is no classified information. Classification is a technical term. So put that aside. But the White House is now saying there's nothing in there that was sensitive. And it's like, yeah, let's. Let's get to that, boys. What are you. What are you talking about?

[Mike Pesca]

Here, what they were talking about was sensitive, if not technically classified material. And from that, there will be calls for investigations and maybe there will be some firings. We'll see. Mike Walz wasn't a darling of the Bannon wing of the Republican Party to begin with. Also, every time in the future when Trump says leakers are the scourge of the earth or leakers should be prosecuted, the obvious rejoinder will be, mike Walls leaked. He's still there in your administration. Unless he isn't. But I was very interested in the objections to the strike aired by Vice President J.D. vance. On the one hand, it's interesting, but not alarming. If this were to have occurred in a secure discussion in, say, the Situation Room had Vance said, then let's not strike them. This helps Europe more than us. We can't wait. And that, by the way, is what he said. And then Pete Hegseth came in and said, with all respect, Mr. Vice President, no, let's do it now. And Stephen Miller comes in over the top and says, I have a special practice.

[Chris Gethard]

I handle one client.

[Mike Pesca]

And my one client, POTUS wants this strike to happen on the Signal chat. It's more alarming to know that conversation took place in Signal, but it is revealing. Vance acts among his peers in the Cabinet like he does in public. His ideology, such as it is, is consistent. He hates the Europeans more than he hates the Houthis, but he's placated by the others. Oh, yes, we certainly loathe the freeloading Europeans, too. But we're going to hit the Houthies. Also a fascination. How to sell it. So Hegseth wrote. I think messaging is going to be tough no matter what. Nobody knows who the Houthis are, which is why we need to stay focused on one Biden failed to Iran funded. That was what he said on March 14. The bombs dropped on March 16. Here was Hegseth on Fox News March.

[Pete Hegseth]

17, dropping precisely on the targets that we wanted to hit, sending a very clear message. And the message is clear to Iran as well. And the President said it in his truth. Your support of the Houthis needs to end immediately. We will hold you accountable as the sponsor of this proxy. And I echo his statement. We will not be nice about it. This is not the Biden administration. The message is clear. We will come after the Houthis until they stop shooting in our ships. And the Iranians better stay out of it.

[Mike Pesca]

It's all there, out in the open. Way too out in the open for all to see. Hegseth also said this about Jeffrey Goldberg.

[Pete Hegseth]

You're talking about a deceitful and highly discredited so called journalist who's made a profession of peddling hoaxes time and time again.

[Mike Pesca]

He seems to have gotten the goods this time. Well, not gotten. He was given them. And the call came from inside the house. And that's it for today's show. Cory Wara produces the gist. Michelle Peska, cbso, Peru thanks for listening.