T.J. Miller: You'll Do Better in Toledo

Summary

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The Gist — "T.J. Miller: You'll Do Better in Toledo"

Podcast: The Gist
Host: Mike Pesca
Guest: T.J. Miller
Episode Date: December 29, 2025
Duration: ~30 minutes

Episode Overview

On this episode of The Gist, host Mike Pesca sits down with comedian and actor T.J. Miller for a freewheeling, hilarious, and at times candid conversation. The two riff on city mottos, the psychology of comedy, T.J.'s ongoing experiences with traumatic brain injury (TBI), and the philosophical connections between brain, personality, and creativity. They digress into city slogans, regional oddities, and the economics of midwestern life, all while matching wits in Miller’s trademark style of improvisational, high-octane banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. City Mottos and Regional Humor

[06:29–18:28]

• Comparing Toledo and New York's Mottos:
  • NY: "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere."
  • Toledo: "Toledo, you'll do better here."
  • T.J. riffed, "New York is like, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. And Toledo is like, if you can't make it anywhere, you'll do better here." (07:35)
• On City Branding:
  • Smaller or “less cool” towns often adopt self-effacing mottos.
  • Jim Thorpe, PA: "The Switzerland of America."
  • Auburn, WA: "More than you imagined."
  • Miller: "That's the greatest motto. Because I did. I've never imagined anything." (17:32)
• Economic Realities of the Midwest:
  • In Fort Wayne, Indiana, the cost of living is so low, Miller jokes you could work Uber for a week and buy drinks for everyone at all six bars.
  • Quote: "If you actually work, like a real person, with a salary and stuff ... you're just rich." (21:20)

2. Comedy Styles and The Art of Improvisation

[46:29–53:51]

• Embracing Chaos on Stage:
  • TJ discusses different comedic preferences: some comedians control every aspect, others thrive on crowd work and improvisation.
  • He admires Norm MacDonald for being able to leave prepared jokes to riff with the audience:
    • "I think that's like one of the best tests of a great comedian is to allow the audience to be ... in charge of where you go, but you're still in charge of them." (51:23)
  • TJ’s own style starts and ends with improvisation: “Everything starts from improvisation, and eventually everything will end with improvisation.” (53:51)
  • Quote: "I'm really an improviser at my heart. ... I'm much more likely to do well by going on stage and just working the material on stage." (52:44)

3. Living with Traumatic Brain Injury

[25:55–49:02]

• T.J. Opens Up About His Brain Injury:
  • Miller suffered an AVM (arteriovenous malformation) hemorrhage and underwent brain surgery in 2010 during movie filming.
  • Brain injury has led to unique effects on his mood, sleep, and cognition.
  • "I have a brain injury. Traumatic brain injury. Yeah. And one of the effects ... is that I don't feel tired." (25:57)
• Unique Relationship with Sleep & Mania:
  • TJ’s TBI leaves him unable to feel fatigue; he only sleeps when he notices physical signs (yawning, itchy eyes).
  • "I've never really been at, like, a party and been like, ugh, I'm tired. ... When people do cocaine when they're drinking... they're trying to do the thing that's just my neutral gear." (28:22)
• Invisible Disability & Social Perception:
  • TJ discusses the challenges of having an invisible disability:
    • "It is the equivalent of seeing somebody in a wheelchair and being like, stand up and come over here." (34:11)
  • He shares that TBI survivors can hide their disability, often leading to misunderstanding or expectations that they “should be normal.”
• Decision to Undergo Surgery:
  • Doctors told him without surgery he'd likely not live beyond his mid-30s, but the surgery itself had a 10% fatality rate.
  • TJ’s major concern pre-surgery: "If I get the surgery, will I still be funny?" (37:20)
    • The surgeon reassured him: "I don't think we're really using that part of your brain before, so, yeah, I guess you'll still be funny."

4. Neuropsychology, Personality, and Comedy

[39:41–45:51, 48:15–50:00]

• Side Effects of TBI & the Frontal Lobe:
  • Pesca reads from the neurological literature: injures to the right frontal lobe can affect attention, memory, impulse control, planning, emotional expression.
  • TJ’s reflection: struggles to connect with emotions, often “reverse engineers” them by watching movies to cue feelings.
  • “I sometimes have trouble connecting with it. So ... more effective is watching movies ... and I think that's maybe why I was always so connected to that, is I had trouble connecting with emotions.” (45:48)
• Comedy as Left Brain Work:
  • Pesca notes Miller's acumen with language and improvisation aligns with strong left-brain function — possibly compensating for his right-sided deficits.
  • "I basically aced the ... English part of my SATs. Yeah, I'm really fast with language, for sure." (49:37)
  • TJ wonders aloud if his style is, neurologically, a result of the brain rewiring — “maybe part of my parietal lobe picked up like language stuff.”

5. The Burden and Freedom of Not Caring

• Social Adaptation:
  • TJ connects his difficulty empathizing with a certain freedom:
    • “I think that can come off, though, as, wow, he really doesn't give a fuck. Which is true. ... If you truly don't give a fuck, that's really freeing and allows you to care.” (45:58)
• Professional Support Structures:
  • TJ describes his “battery of psychological professionals” who keep him within social, emotional, and psychological guardrails (47:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On City Mottos:
  • "If you can't make it anywhere, you'll do better here. And that's basically the opposite [of New York]." – T.J. Miller (07:45)
• On Taking Risks with Brain Surgery:
  • "If I get the surgery, will I still be funny? ... That's what gives me purpose ... He was like, 'I don't think we're really using that part of your brain before, so, yeah, I guess you'll still be funny.'" – T.J. Miller and his surgeon (37:20–37:45)
• On Invisible Disabilities:
  • "That is the equivalent ... of seeing somebody in a wheelchair and being like, stand up and come over here... It's very strange and ... traumatic brain injury survivors ... can hide our disability because I look like anybody else." – T.J. Miller (34:11)
• On Comedy Origins:
  • "Everything starts from improvisation, and eventually everything will end with improvisation." – T.J. Miller (53:51)
• On the Nature of His Mind:
  • "When people do cocaine when they're drinking ... they're trying to do the thing that's just my neutral gear." – T.J. Miller (28:22)
  • "I'm much more likely to do well by going on stage and just working the material on stage." – T.J. Miller (52:44)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [06:24-11:12] — Riffing on city mottos: New York vs. Toledo, Jim Thorpe PA, Appleton WI
• [18:28-23:13] — Fort Wayne, Indiana: Economics, cost of living, small town life
• [25:55-34:55] — T.J. on his brain injury, sleep, hyperactivity, and invisible disabilities
• [37:20] — The decision to get surgery and fear of losing his comedic edge
• [39:41-45:51] — Effects of right frontal lobe damage and strategies for emotional connection
• [46:29-53:51] — Comedy and improvisation; crowd work vs. control on stage; origins of his comedic material

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Tone & Style

The episode is easygoing, candid, and quick-witted. Pesca keeps up with Miller’s rapid-fire improvisation, creating a sense of “playful combat” as they trade references and metacommentaries about language, comedy, and the mind. The conversation swings between deeply personal reflections and absurdist humor, all wrapped in a spirit of improvisational joy.

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Summary for the Uninitiated

In this episode, T.J. Miller brings his signature blend of chaotic, improvisational comedy to discuss not just his career and style, but also the profound personal impact of his brain injury—how it influences his daily life, his stage presence, and his very sense of self. The interplay with Mike Pesca is both insightful and hilarious, making for a thought-provoking look at what happens to creativity, comedy, and personality when one's brain is literally rewired. The discussion about city slogans serves as both a recurring comedic riff and a metaphor for finding meaning—and humor—in unexpected places.

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Transcript

[Mike Pesca]

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Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.

[Zoe (Character)]

Zoe. This thing weighs a ton.

[TJ Miller]

Drew Ski, live with your legs, man.

[Mike Pesca]

Santa. Santa, did you get my letter?

[Zoe (Character)]

He's talking to you, Bridges.

[TJ Miller]

I'm not.

[Mrs. Claus (Character)]

Of course he did.

[TJ Miller]

Right Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

[Zoe (Character)]

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[Mrs. Claus (Character)]

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[TJ Miller]

Or give it as a gift.

[Mrs. Claus (Character)]

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[TJ Miller]

Nice.

[Zoe (Character)]

My side of the tree is slipping.

[TJ Miller]

Kimber.

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[Mike Pesca]

It's Monday, December 29, 2025 from Peach Fish Productions. It's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca. It's also my birthday. So for my birthday I'm giving you a funny you should mention interview with one of the more interesting characters we ever had. TJ Miller came in and I just loved being in his orbit and riffing with him and trying to keep up with him and at times leaving him to keep up with me. Which could be explained by one of two things. One, I'm quick to he does have a brain injury he also has and brought with him. And there was a pause that we cut out while we went to get the proper cutlery, a long line of hot sauces and peanut butter. And I'm still giving them away as gifts. I've held on to a few, but the I don't want to. I don't want to turn this into something Overly commercial. But a couple of the crunchy peanut butters are delicious. And his T.J. miller chipotle sauce. Listen, when we had Stuart Eisenstadt, I didn't plug the Stuart Eisenstadt chipotle sauce. And I feel bad because the former undersecretary of the treasury deserved that amount of commercial support. I didn't give it to him. When the professor, Daniel Zogby was on to talk about the history of the Middle east and I neglected to plug his salsa. Again, that's on me. I bear that burden. And you should go to Zogby and Eisenstadt's respective sites. Neither of them sell peanut butter. I do think Zombie sells a gum. But TJ Miller, he was properly commercial. And I'm not going to shy away from the fact that I enjoyed his product, his comedy product and also but also his provisions. So that's the one provision he had that I plug his provisions. T.J. miller up next. Age catches up to you. And that's okay. I'm getting definitely wiser. But you know, when I do a deep knee bend or even a mid knee bend, there are certain noises. The joints are stiff, recovery takes longer. I'm always looking for products, ideas or products that are ideas to help me out. I didn't really think of collagen or collagen peptides until BUBS came along. BUBS Naturals. Collagen peptides makes you look and feel a couple decades younger. So this could mean things like stronger joints, healthier nails. I will not mention healthier hair, but apparently for people other than people like me, you know, those who have hair, they could do the job to smoother skin. Definitely faster recovery. Put it into my coffee every morning.

[TJ Miller]

Swirl, swirl swirl.

[Mike Pesca]

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[Mike Pesca]

TJ Miller has played guys who ride with dragons and bears and lions and Mucus. He was great as Mucus. We loved him as Mucus. But I have seen him here at the Comedy Cellar and he is this whirling dervish of chaos and comedy and I tell you, it was a sight and an experience that I won't soon forget. I'm going to talk to TJ about that night and his comedy and what he's been doing. And I just found out on this season two of Funny youy Should Mention there's going to be a hot sauce and peanut butter component. Tj, welcome to the Gist and Funny youy Should Mention.

[TJ Miller]

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. So do you think it is funny that you should mention it?

[Mike Pesca]

It is funny, right? Do you think that Toledo does have a better motto than New York City for everyone? Like for you, which motto is better?

[TJ Miller]

Toledo. So from a joke of mine, I love this and New York City's motto is if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere.

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[TJ Miller]

Is it? I was going to ask you, is it? You can make it here, you can make anywhere. If you can make it there, it's there.

[Mike Pesca]

It's there.

[TJ Miller]

You can make make it there, you can make it anywhere.

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[TJ Miller]

And the Toledo, Ohio, theirs is Toledo, you'll do better here. Toledo has a city motto. Do you guys have a city motto? A slogan? See, you don't need one. You're Nashville, you're cool. But the less cool cities, they have to have some sort of slogan or motto. So Toledo's is toledo, you'll do better here. Let's think about that for a second. Okay. New York's city motto is the exact opposite of Toledo. New York is like, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. And Toledo is like, if you can't make it anywhere, you'll do better here. And that's basically the opposite.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. It doesn't admit that it's the opposite. Right. It doesn't directly address the New York motto. Like, if you can't make it in New York, maybe consider Toledo.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah. But if you can't make it anywhere. Yeah, you'll do better in Toledo.

[Mike Pesca]

So. But I think for some people, I think for New York, New York's motto is better. I think for the kind of people New York wants you from. I'm from the New York area and I thought that I could make.

[TJ Miller]

I thought that I could get here.

[Mike Pesca]

No, I'm from the New York area.

[TJ Miller]

Rhode Island.

[Mike Pesca]

What about Rhode Island?

[TJ Miller]

I'm just joking. You said, I'm from the New York area. And I was like, you're not from New York, you might as well be from fucking Rhode Island.

[Mike Pesca]

Uh huh. That's how it goes. If I'm from Long Island, I might as well be from Rhode Island.

[TJ Miller]

Where in Long island are you from?

[Mike Pesca]

From Oceanside. Guess where it is as relates to the ocean.

[TJ Miller]

Pretty deep in. To the center of the island.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

It's.

[Mike Pesca]

It's not as close to the ocean as you would hope for. A place called Oceanside.

[TJ Miller]

My father lives in Sag Harbor.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

So east ending it. So I go through and I play Huntington and I've done Long beach, which is closer to.

[Mike Pesca]

I lived in Long Beach.

[TJ Miller]

Did you? And what did you think about it?

[Mike Pesca]

It's a community of firemen. The New York rangers used to live there. It's pretty much on a barrier island. You did get more of a feel for the geography than you do from some like, nameless suburb where I'm from.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. What about. You're from Denver, right?

[TJ Miller]

I'm from Denver, Colorado.

[Mike Pesca]

Did it feel mountainous about that? Did it feel mountainous growing up? Like, did you feel like you were of the mountains?

[TJ Miller]

Yeah, I really did. I talked to Kate about it. Sometimes I like to take the stairs. I'd walk up the. We're on the fifth floor. I like to take stairs. Like, why do you think I like the stairs so much? Because you're from the mountains.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

You're just naturally predisposed to hike.

[Mike Pesca]

You're a mountain man.

[TJ Miller]

But yeah, everywhere. If you live in Denver, the way you figure out where you are is there are always mountains to the west that you can see.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

And then, you know, as you grow up, you go and you do mountain things.

[Mike Pesca]

See in New York, same thing, but it's not the natural environment. It used to be the World Trade Center. I guess still is different World Trade Centers but the orientation of large buildings, it's probably different. It probably corrupts the soul a little bit.

[TJ Miller]

I completely thought that you meant you used to go hiking and the mountain was the World Trade Center. So you would go up the stairs.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, I see that I would use that. No, what I was thinking about going up the stairs. My experience with that is I would be singing the Price is Right mountain climber song in my head while going up the stairs.

[TJ Miller]

Part of it.

[Mike Pesca]

You know this one? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[TJ Miller]

And then going morning shower soundtrack going down.

[Mike Pesca]

I would think of Plinko. So I have a couple other I just want you to your reaction on this and there's one big one I actually need your opinion on. Here are some other cities and their mottos or their nicknames. Jim Thorpe, P.A. the Switzerland of America. Does that work for Jim Thorpe, PA? I have some thoughts.

[TJ Miller]

I know nothing about one of those places and I'm not going to tell.

[Mike Pesca]

You which is it jtpa.

[TJ Miller]

Jtpa they call it. So she just kind of hangs out.

[Mike Pesca]

And then my problem with Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania is it raises and the Switzerland of America, it's too many moving variables.

[TJ Miller]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

It raises many more questions than it answers.

[TJ Miller]

I think that's true. First question.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

What is Jim Thor, Pennsylvania.

[Mike Pesca]

All right, so it's town in Pennsylvania, sort of central Pennsylvania. I found out Jim Thorpe never had been there. But they this guy was so famous.

[TJ Miller]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

So you know about Jim Thorpe. I read a biography and talked to the author, David Marinus. He was the most famous American of the nineteen teens. You know him and maybe the president. He was unbelievably famous.

[TJ Miller]

Who was he? Like a Daniel Boone type of character.

[Mike Pesca]

He was an Olympic athlete and they tore his medals away from him. And he was the most famous Native American athlete. And then he went to Hollywood and just household name. Everyone had an opinion on Jim Thorpe.

[TJ Miller]

And why did they tear the metals away? Didn't they just ask them?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, for a back they could. Right.

[TJ Miller]

You just ripped them off. That's God damn neck.

[Mike Pesca]

They didn't even tell him beforehand. Wait, so they had to sneak up on him. This guy's strong. Yeah. Football player.

[TJ Miller]

Right.

[Mike Pesca]

So back then, you know, the Olympic ideal was you never made any money. And it turns out he's this poor Native American fantastic at sports and he played some amateur baseball for a while or maybe even didn't, you know. Yeah, yeah. So that's Jim Thorpe, Pennsylvania. And then they branded as the Switzerland.

[TJ Miller]

Of America and he never Even lived there. That's like, I'm going to Keller's comedy and magic club this the weekend after Christmas, and it's the home of Harry Houdini grew up there.

[Mike Pesca]

So is that an. Appleton, Wisconsin?

[TJ Miller]

So there's that. So he actually grew up to a certain extent in Appleton, Wisconsin. But they try and claim Houdini because his mentor, Keller.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Who's another famous magician, did live there. So I think there's a lot of places that try and kind of. And Keller's is in Erie, Pennsylvania.

[Mike Pesca]

Wow.

[TJ Miller]

It's not even in the same state as where Houdin. And did you know this in Appleton? He only lived there for, like, three years.

[Mike Pesca]

Is that right?

[TJ Miller]

When he was a baby?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

So you never even really did magic there. But so like Jim Thorpe, it's like, these towns are just like, we like that guy.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah. But also, I mean, if you're New York, right. And you have. I was thinking about this the other day. New York has the United nations in it. When's the last time a New Yorker thought about the United Nations? I guess, technically, it's the most important body internationally.

[TJ Miller]

Well, there, what happens is we all forget about it, and we forget about it. And then they all convene here, and the traffic is totally.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[TJ Miller]

And then everybody. The extent that we talk about the United nations, everybody goes, God, it's traffic. It's terrible. And then someone go, well, it's the un, the United Nations. And. Oh, that's right. But none of us knew they were coming.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[TJ Miller]

So we just go, oh, yeah, it was. I forgot it was that time of year. We have no idea. Soon as the traffic clears up. I've never even heard anybody say, well, there's not much traffic. Well, the UN's gone. Right.

[Mike Pesca]

No one ever gives a credit. Wow. I flew up the east side. It turns out the Security Council is not in session.

[TJ Miller]

And even you wouldn't think of, like, well, I think the UN's gone.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[TJ Miller]

But I don't take a lot of cars.

[Mike Pesca]

Mm.

[TJ Miller]

And so I could see that happening more. But it's really my sample bias that.

[Mike Pesca]

This is a good point. But also, I think the UN probably knows it runs into the no one gives a credit problem in terms of peace. Right. So if there's a lack of war in Rwanda, as there has been for the last 20 years, no one says, well, you know, the UN gets some credit. They only get blame.

[TJ Miller]

That's what I'm saying.

[Mike Pesca]

That's what. But you're saying in the car context.

[TJ Miller]

But even you're right. It's a peace thing.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. But the reason I raised the UN is we are in New York. We have hundreds and hundreds of famous institutions. Institutions we don't have to reach for. Houdini. If you're in the Fox River Valley of Wisconsin, like, that's all you got. If Houdini was there for three years, you run with it.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah. You really do. They have a museum.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Screw it.

[Mike Pesca]

What's his name? Eric Schwartz. Was that his name? Pre Houdini? It's a better name, I think.

[TJ Miller]

Oh. Who was he before? What was his name? I think that I don't remember. But it was not good at all. So he made that disappear quickly. And I. Yeah, that's the magician. Rim shot.

[Mike Pesca]

You're a magic. You're a magician.

[TJ Miller]

No, I'm a juggler. But I do know some magic. And yesterday I was looking at bicycle cards, like the brand Bicycle. Somehow I got on their mailing list and they sell some pretty cool playing cards that are magic decks. And some of her. There's the. It's like the short deck.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

And the other one is a stripped deck. And you can do all of the card tricks with those two decks, but then they have one and it's a blurry deck. I'm thinking about getting that and getting that for. There's this guy who has a podcast called Legion of Skanks. His name is Louis J. Guzman.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[TJ Miller]

And hey, I don't think we need any giggling for the peanut gallery over there, Mike. So he. But he's. So he's this like, Puerto Rican kind of gangster vibes is what he's trying to do. He's also a magician.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[TJ Miller]

And so his father killed someone or something like that. And then now he's like, okay, pick a card. Any of these cards. Now don't show me your card. So it's funny to see him kind of be a dork. So I was thinking of getting him one of those for Christmas, but I. I would like to do that one because the trick is that the cards become blurry when you look at them.

[Mike Pesca]

Uh huh. How does his father killing someone, though, figure into all that? Because it's an interesting life detail for sure.

[TJ Miller]

Because the juxtaposition between a Puerto Rican gangster whose father is a murderer.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[TJ Miller]

And a magic dork.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Is very vast.

[Mike Pesca]

Yes. And therein lies comedy.

[TJ Miller]

It's the Grand Canyon. It's the. It's the Jonathan Sharp Thornton I remember.

[Mike Pesca]

Did. I got another. We could get off this. But I just. I saw this and I needed your opinion on this motto for a city.

[TJ Miller]

No, I like it.

[Mike Pesca]

Auburn, Washington, more than you imagined.

[TJ Miller]

Oh, definitely.

[Mike Pesca]

Good one. Good motto.

[TJ Miller]

That's the greatest motto. Because I did. I've never imagined anything.

[Mike Pesca]

No one has. So it is true. Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

I think there's a lot of. There's a lot of places like Dayton, Ohio.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Better than you expected.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, Jesus.

[TJ Miller]

I think that's. I think that. But I'm saying that's not their slogan. But that could apply to so many places.

[Mike Pesca]

It is. I think Pittsburgh's better.

[TJ Miller]

Durango, Colorado, better than you expected. But Pittsburgh people. Well, I guess maybe you would think. Do you think that people don't expect much from that city?

[Mike Pesca]

Here's the problem with these cities.

[TJ Miller]

Right. It's one of my favorite cities.

[Mike Pesca]

It is. But all of these cities will never have the presence of mind to call themselves that because they're. I'm not saying high in their own supply, but they're living their own lives thinking Pittsburgh's great or thinking Auburn's great, mostly. Or thinking Dayton's great. They don't realize everyone else doesn't share their opinion. So it's good that Auburn is meeting the public where it is.

[TJ Miller]

I don't think Dayton thinks that they're that great.

[Mike Pesca]

They don't. They had the Wright brothers. That was pretty good. Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

I just think they still are. Like, maybe Fort Wayne is the best example of.

[Mike Pesca]

Huh? It is.

[TJ Miller]

Wayne is my favorite place for a few reasons, but I did comedy there and it's great.

[Mike Pesca]

They had an NBA team.

[TJ Miller]

The audiences are great. You know a lot about a lot of things, don't you?

[Mike Pesca]

But I think if I say it.

[TJ Miller]

You had true Michelle very much. Oh, boy. Common sense, things like turning off the stove.

[Libsyn Ads Announcer]

Whoa.

[TJ Miller]

Shots fired from the wife who just said that he can't get his shit together in all the important ways, but knows everything about nothing. Well, look, matters.

[Mike Pesca]

Let's say there was a potential fire and I could either avoid it by shutting off the stove. The stove. Or knowing that the Detroit Pistons once played in Fort Wayne. Like, if it was the Fort Wayne thing, I'd save the house. So I think it's 50. 50. They're both equally important.

[TJ Miller]

You never know. There can be an arsonist who's like, where did the Detroit Pistons play?

[Mike Pesca]

Right. So where does the current minor league basketball team, the fire ants, base its home? And then I would know. And it's fire related. So I think it works.

[TJ Miller]

It does. Where do they base it?

[Mike Pesca]

There at Fort Wayne also.

[TJ Miller]

Really?

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[TJ Miller]

Wow.

[Mike Pesca]

Fort Wayne is a rich basket. Indiana, you know, they love basketball.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah, that's true. But that's. So anyway, everyone I talked to in Fort Wayne when I was there was so funny because I'd be like, what do you. What are you doing out there? You know, how long have you been here? Like, well, I moved here. What do you think of Fort Wayne? They go, ah, it's kind of boring. You know, there's really nothing to do. Like, really nothing. Well, we have like five or six bars, really, that anyone goes to. And so people will go there, you know. And I'm like, and do you guys, like go anywhere travel wise? And they're like, no, not really. I mean, sometimes people drive here, but like, we don't dry. And I serve. I keep asking questions and eventually I just get to like, okay, so why do you live here?

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[TJ Miller]

And everybody's answer was the same. They're like, well, you know, cost of living. And then I looked at it and also I talked to a kid, I go, how much? What is your cost of living? People keep mentioning it. And he was like, well, I live in like a three, well, four bed with three bedroom house with like a backyard. And every month I pay $485. And I was like, what? He was like, yeah, $485. I was like, are you serious, dude?

[Mike Pesca]

They.

[TJ Miller]

So what I. What I come to understand is that if you go there, you could theoretically make enough money for the month driving Uber for like a week and a half, right? And then the rest of your month is sort of. And if you actually work, like a real person, like with a salary and stuff, and you have to go to work every week, you're just rich. You kind of can go and buy everybody all the drinks that you want at all. Six bars.

[Mike Pesca]

You have that lifestyle and six bars available to you and a comedy club that books T.J. miller. Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Wow. Well, I think the comedy club was like the big, big thing there because obviously they can't get any, you know, theater or anything like that. And I think the music, no big concert come there, but they actually get some cool kind of smaller bands come through, I'm sure. And you go there and I mean, the beers were like $4 and stuff. And they would do this thing where they would be like, the one bar I went to two bars, but the one bar that I went to.

[Mike Pesca]

So you went to a third of the bars.

[TJ Miller]

I went to one third of the bars. He's quick with math too. But she's quicker. She already listed five things that you're shit at as a husband.

[Mike Pesca]

No.

[TJ Miller]

So, yeah. So I went there to go, hey, how much is a bucket of beer? I think they were like, it's like $15. And I was like. For a six pack of beer, Right? And then they're like, yeah, sure.

[Mike Pesca]

And.

[TJ Miller]

But their food. People eat a lot of food there because it's Indiana, but also it's not super expensive, but then they. So they're living in this, like, financial ecosystem that doesn't quite make sense for America. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[TJ Miller]

It kind of feels like it's like Bulgarian or. Yeah, yeah. It feels more Eastern European. But in Eastern Europe, I don't think they make kind of. I don't think there's a minimum wage in some of those places. So I don't think. But somebody did say that to me once. I said it was this rush. It was. I only met one Russian who I've liked, I think, ever. And this particular Russian. I hate coffee.

[Mike Pesca]

We put a little water in it.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah, no, that's why. Because I hate it.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[TJ Miller]

I don't like. But I gotta. I fast. Like, not like intermittent fasting, but I don't really eat until I'm hungry. It's kind of what I've been doing lately.

[Mike Pesca]

It's kind of smart.

[TJ Miller]

And you kind of need to be. Also, coffee, I guess, is a miracle drug for your liver.

[Mike Pesca]

Huh. Let's say.

[TJ Miller]

That was really interesting that there are so many studies that say that drinking coffee is really great for your liver. But I think the reason it's great, it doesn't do anything really, other than it just speeds up your metabolism.

[Mike Pesca]

So it's who you are and making you a little more of that. Not changing your personality.

[TJ Miller]

What, coffee? Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, I think.

[TJ Miller]

For who?

[Mike Pesca]

For people. Humans, maybe for Fort Wayne residents.

[TJ Miller]

Well, but you know how much this costs in Fort Wayne?

[Mike Pesca]

Well, how much you get paid?

[TJ Miller]

35 cents to drink it.

[Mike Pesca]

It. It'd be crazy not to. Let's catch our breaths. Well, me and you, maybe not TJ we'll be back in a minute with more of TJ Miller.

[Mrs. Claus (Character)]

Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.

[Zoe (Character)]

Zoe. This thing weighs a ton.

[TJ Miller]

Drew, Ski. Lift with your legs, man.

[Mike Pesca]

Santa.

[TJ Miller]

Santa, did you get my letter?

[Zoe (Character)]

He's talking to you, britches.

[TJ Miller]

I'm not.

[Mrs. Claus (Character)]

Of course he did.

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[TJ Miller]

Santa, you know my elf, Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.

[Zoe (Character)]

And elf. I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile, you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for. For group selfies, right, Mrs. Claus.

[Mrs. Claus (Character)]

I'm Mrs. Claus, much younger sister. And AT T Mobile, there's no trade in needed when you switch, so you can keep your old phone or give.

[TJ Miller]

It as a gift.

[Mrs. Claus (Character)]

And the best part, you can make the switch to T Mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes.

[TJ Miller]

Nice.

[Zoe (Character)]

My side of the tree is slipping.

[TJ Miller]

Kimber.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

The holidays are better. AT T Mobile, switch in just 15 minutes and get iPhone 17 on us with no trade in needed. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 monthly bill.

[T-Mobile Legal/Disclaimer Voice]

Credits for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 vice connection charge credit and balance to pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. 256g $830. Eligible for in a new line, $100 plus a month plan with auto payments, taxes and fees required. Check out 15 minutes or less per line.

[Mike Pesca]

Visit t mobile.com AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI [e-mail] that's R U B R I K.com and we're back with TJ Miller. All right, let's have at it. Let's keep going. Here's tj.

[TJ Miller]

Oh, on the coffee thing.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

I have a brain injury. Traumatic brain injury. Yeah. And one of the effects of having that injury and the brain surgery to my right frontal lobe is that I don't feel tired.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. So I was thinking of that when you said, I eat when I'm hungry, but what about sleeping? Do you sleep when you're tired but you're. You don't feel tired?

[TJ Miller]

I never feel tired.

[Mike Pesca]

So how. What's the stimulus? And I've watched a couple other interviews with you. What's the stimulus you use to tell yourself I have to go to sleep.

[TJ Miller]

I had to go to a neuropsychologist for this, in part. But if I have physical signs, I was about to say symptoms by physical symptoms of an illness I call fatigue. Then I sort of go, okay, I'm yawning, my eyes are itching, or this. I'm maybe a little bit of balance stuff or something like that. Then I'll say, okay, it's time to kind of lie down and I'll go to sleep once I Kind of get in position.

[Mike Pesca]

Falling asleep. I fall asleep when tired, and when not tired, I can't fall asleep. But you don't get tired. Does falling asleep comport with align with when you should be tired, or can you fall asleep even when you're well rested or when another person who hasn't had as much sleep as you had would be tired?

[TJ Miller]

Thank you for saying aligned after comporting.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[TJ Miller]

Because I think it could have been possible that I had no idea what comporting meant.

[Mike Pesca]

I tried to do some synonyms in a row.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah. It's not condescending at all.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[TJ Miller]

It's. I mean, Michelle knows. T.J. an intellectual conversation isn't.

[Mike Pesca]

This isn't condescension. It's just I sometimes reach for words.

[TJ Miller]

I'm being facetious. I'm kidding, right?

[Mike Pesca]

What do you mean by. Okay, lower.

[TJ Miller]

Lower.

[Mike Pesca]

Hahas. You're doing the haha.

[TJ Miller]

Okay, I'm making.

[Mike Pesca]

Ooh, you're tickling my funny bone.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah, I. I kind of. I just try and get better for years. I sort of. I found, you know, that cheat code of kind of drinking until you're fatigued and you'll sort of pass out, and it's. I mean, red wine can kind of do it. If you get blasted, as I did throughout my 20s, that'll really do it. But. And then I think in California, I said, well, I'm going to smoke some marijuana. It was. So. It's not frustrating, but it's so ridiculous that. But what I found after I started working with a neuropsychologist is you can also just lie down and close your eyes. Oh, how about that, Michelle? And so that's been really interesting to try and do. But part of the issue is also I'm sort of prone to mania. And so once I get in that mode, I'm kind of working and I'm out. And I know. So I've never really been at, like, a party and been like, ugh, I'm tired. I feel like when people do cocaine when they're drinking.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

They're trying to do the thing that is just my neutral gear. And so that balance for me is very different. I've never done cocaine because it wouldn't make sense for what I'm trying to get out of a drug. And that's why I don't really like coffee, because it kind of. I mean, it doesn't make me. But I'm just like, okay, wow, this is a little bit more than I really needed it to be because I was already in Sort of a position where I was kind of like, oh boy, what does comporting mean? And if I can't figure out whether or not it aligns with my belief system, then I don't know exactly what I'm going to do. But I'm going a little bit fast. I think I really, to slow it down, perhaps I should have a heaping helping of Guinness. And so that's kind of a little bit too much for me. But I think that the sleeping thing, kind of the mania thing, sort of that added with my father and his Protestant work ethic. I really work a lot like I do too much like we tj I.

[Mike Pesca]

Happen to know though that when you don't get your sleep, you don't just get cranky. The mania kicks in. Right.

[TJ Miller]

That's true. I can become hypomanic. But it is interesting to try and weigh those two things in the sense of. I did a writing meeting. It would be Sunday, Monday in the morning, I think Sunday and then Monday in the morning. And then after doing a writing meeting for like five hours or something, then I went to the editing room and edited for eight hours. Yeah, so that's a. I mean, you're better at math than I am, but that's like a 13 hour day. And then the next day you just kind of get up and do it again. And so I spend a lot of time with a very, very packed schedule. And you get a lot of work done. But you're right, sometimes it skirts this kind of. And the biggest thing to do is sort of try and do one of the things that I have. Is this the one where it says. Yeah, it is. Hold on one second. So a traumatic brain injury in the right frontal lobe. I keep this go ahead on my wallpaper.

[Mike Pesca]

So this is what you had. You had this avm, right?

[TJ Miller]

The arteriovenous malformation.

[Mike Pesca]

Oh, the malform. M is a malformation, but it is a mass. Yeah, it's like a. The wires.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah, you go. I mean, they don't give you any wine. Yeah, well, they'll give you a cracker, Mike. Jesus Christ. And so the arteriovenous malformation hemorrhage. In 2010, while I was shooting a major motion picture, Michelle's favorite Yogi Beer 3D. Mike, are you getting all this?

[Mike Pesca]

Yes.

[TJ Miller]

And so she's Team Boo Boo.

[Mike Pesca]

I just want you to know that's okay. Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

You're not going to get as much out of the picnic basket. Probably be left with a half eaten peach and a goddamn bowl of honey and they're going to leave any honey for Boo Boo. That little fuck. Fuck him.

[Mike Pesca]

Wow. You heard it here.

[TJ Miller]

Give him a good long pegging.

[Mike Pesca]

TJ vows never work with Google again.

[TJ Miller]

That was a callback. Yeah, no, I'm not vowing not to work with anybody ever.

[Mike Pesca]

I am only work with anyone who wants to work with him ever again.

[TJ Miller]

That take a U turn. That was very interesting.

[Mike Pesca]

So you have on your phone what, the left lobe.

[TJ Miller]

So I had brain surgery in 2010, roughly at the same time that it hemorrhaged pretty soon after. Not exactly soon after. And, and so get away. And so.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, I'll leave you on my phone.

[TJ Miller]

No, no, no. It's just, it's an absolute frustration. So what happened was it's a technological frustration. You are anything but a frustration. You're a pleasure. And you, you're a real comportment I feel to all the feelings that I've had about how well this is going. And usually I comportmentalize, you know, podcasts and what happens in them, but for me, you've comported completely.

[Mike Pesca]

I have, I've done the full comport.

[TJ Miller]

Ubiquitous.

[Mike Pesca]

Well, thank you.

[TJ Miller]

And so I got this surgery and it's really interesting because now I, I work with, I go to brain neurological conferences with neurosurgeons and the people that make the equipment is very interesting. I made a close friend who's. He works and they, they put these coils in through your veins and they're these almost hair thin. Like, I mean, they are really, really, really small.

[Mike Pesca]

Like gossamer thin?

[TJ Miller]

Yeah, kind of. I mean, I wouldn't say that because it sounds a little.

[Mike Pesca]

No, not the thumb at the end.

[TJ Miller]

But yes, gossamer thin. And. And so I learned all about that stuff. But since kind of going there, I've kind of learned much, much about my own condition and other brain injuries. And one of the things that they say, there's two things that there's a thing we say as patients after patient care is I have an invisible disability.

[Mike Pesca]

Okay.

[TJ Miller]

So strangely, if you told me like, why are you here late? And I don't understand how you can't remember my name. I just saw you last week and we made these plans. That is the equivalent. I know this sounds insane. That is the equivalent of seeing somebody in a wheelchair and being like, stand up and come over here. Right? Just walk. Why don't you just walk over here and then we'll talk it through. And so it's very strange and it's very. So there's two things that means is TBI survivors, they call traumatic brain injury survivors, as they also call it. I think that's interesting. But we can hide our disability because I look like anybody else. I don't look like. If you. If I didn't tell you that, then you would just be like, this guy has a tough time putting himself together.

[Mike Pesca]

Right. I, too, have on my phone a description of what the left and right cortices are.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah. Let's. Let's say you want to tell what each of them do.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Well, that's interesting.

[Mike Pesca]

This is why I was thinking about you and I was researching your condition. And by the way, it's invisible, but it's also invisible to you. It was for a while invisible to you and affecting your. Your life. And survivor, I think, is apt. Right. Didn't they tell you if you didn't get the surgery, you would maybe live to 30s?

[TJ Miller]

Yeah. Mid-30s. And I was 30 when they did it. That's okay. I asked him. I go. I go, what'll happen if I don't get it? Because they said, it's elective. You don't have to get it. They go, you probably die in your mid-30s. I go, okay. And what did she say about the fatality rate? Because 1 out of 10 people die. It's a 10% fatality.

[Mike Pesca]

The surgery itself. 1 out of 10.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah. Which when I say that, people are like. But I think. I think that's. That's pretty good odds.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[Libsyn Ads Announcer]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

If it was one out of five people, then I think I would have been like, but 1 out of 10 ain't bad is what I thought.

[Mike Pesca]

But if there were, like, 10 people in the waiting room, it would be a little more real.

[TJ Miller]

Like, you're saying, oh, one of us isn't making it out of here. And I think it's that guy. And then they're like, tj, that's a mirror. And I'm like, oh, shit, Mike. Yikes. Mike. Yikes. Stripes, Fruit Mike gum. Mike's Stripes, Fruit Stripe gum, which I.

[Mike Pesca]

Thought is the gum that loses its flavor the quickest.

[TJ Miller]

I think that's true.

[Mike Pesca]

And they're making up for something. Like, they couldn't get the technology down.

[TJ Miller]

Warheads. We were like, warheads with the chewy almost, like, around it. Yeah. But I don't. Oh, I guess lemon heads are kind of like that. And I thought lemon heads, to me, were always in that era. Yikes. Stripes, Fruit Stripe gum. I was like, this is the worst. It's on that spectrum. And lemon heads were the best. And warheads was kind of not in the middle, but closer to the sour. Are you a sour guy or a sweet guy?

[Mike Pesca]

I'm definitely a sour guy.

[TJ Miller]

I can tell that about you.

[Mike Pesca]

But then I stop a negative thing. Then I stopped being a sour guy and I sat it out, Michelle. I soured on sours, but I didn't become sweet. So, like, I'm a neutral guy. More of a texture.

[TJ Miller]

You can catch more sweets than sour with a B. So what do you think?

[Mike Pesca]

So this is what I want to tell you about your.

[TJ Miller]

I forgot you're having so much fun. I said, so 110 fatality rate, if I get it. If I don't, might die in my mid-30s. Because, yeah, I go, if I get the surgery, will I still be funny?

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[TJ Miller]

And he was like, what? And I was like, mike, you remember this? And I was like, well, will I still be funny? He goes, I don't know. You could tell. He was just like, I've never gotten this question. And I said, well, that's kind of what I do. That's what gives me purpose. That's, you know, it's just what I do. It's what I love. It's how I make a living. He was like, well, I don't think we're really using that part of your brain before, so, yeah, I guess you'll still be funny. I was like, let's do it. Roll the dice. I'm a gambling man, which is true, but only craps the house doesn't have the edge. And yeah, see, now, now I've had coffee.

[Mike Pesca]

That's it.

[TJ Miller]

You know what I mean?

[Mike Pesca]

You've had four and a half drops.

[TJ Miller]

Of coffee here, and it's watered down coffee, for Christ's sake. That shows you. So that was the one thing. And then the second thing that I've learned is when the air hits your brain, it's never the same. That's a big thing in the neurological community in neuroscience. And there's actually a book. I haven't read it yet. And that's the name of the book. And it's the guy who.

[Mike Pesca]

The name of the book is when the air hits your brain, it's never the same. That's not a lyric from that's Amore. That's an actual book name.

[TJ Miller]

When the air hits your brain, that's a big fucking pain. That's a brain name. That's a cranium. Yeah, that's true. Amore. Cran. Amore. Yeah. And so brain surgery is actually a traumatic brain injury. A traumatic Brain injury on the right frontal lobe can lead to a variety of side effects as the frontal lobe is crucial for many cognitive functions. Common side effects include cognitive impairments, issues with attention. You see any of that during the podcast? Memory. Booking the podcast Memory Memory. What is the name of this podcast? And problem solving. Ready for this? You might find it harder to plan, organize, or make decisions. So when you guys were like, oh, he had to cancel and he wasn't able to schedule everything, you were being ableist.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, exactly. As if you were in a wheelchair. We're like, we're on the third floor. It's a third floor.

[TJ Miller]

It's like my favorite thing right now is ageism.

[Mike Pesca]

Uh huh.

[TJ Miller]

Because as white men, we never got to complain about any prejudice against us.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Soon as you turn 40.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

All these goddamn kids are being like, okay, Boomer, you still have the shutter sound on your camera? Well, fuck you, you can't do this. This is Trump's America.

[Mike Pesca]

Because of number two, Joe Biden's ageism.

[TJ Miller]

Behavioral changes. That's right.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah, yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Increased impulsivity. That's the only reason he didn't win. He was older than Trump and this is an age of society.

[Mike Pesca]

Yep.

[TJ Miller]

Behavioral changes. Increase him. He didn't even run, by the way. Increase him.

[Mike Pesca]

Tried to, but as an aged man, he stumbled. Yes.

[TJ Miller]

I love him. Increased impulsivity. Was that a joke about his eyelids look heavy? Guys, I don't want to talk about that right now. Okay. Behavioral changes, Increased impulsivity.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Risk taking behavior, having more than half a cup of coffee or difficulty inhibiting inappropriate actions.

[Mike Pesca]

Now this is what happens after a surgery, you're saying some consequence.

[TJ Miller]

Yeah. Or just any injury to the right frontal lobe.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[TJ Miller]

This is what can happen.

[Mike Pesca]

But you were living with that. Right? You were living with an injured right frontal lobe.

[TJ Miller]

No, that's what's strange. So I was living with a malformation, so I had less mass in my brain that was working. So the malformation which they removed was a golf ball sized piece of my brain.

[Mike Pesca]

Right.

[TJ Miller]

And that just was not functioning. It was malforming. So the rest of my brain that. My theory is this is why I was more manic and I was moving faster. And it's helped me in improvisation, but the plasticity of the brain made it so that I fully developed as a regular human being. And any of the cognitive deficits I had were sort of made up for with other parts of my brain.

[Mike Pesca]

Your left brain strengths made up for your right.

[TJ Miller]

And maybe part of my parietal lobe Picked up like language stuff. Whatever it is, this is my exact question.

[Mike Pesca]

So a second ago you did a riff on how fast you talked with coffee and 99% of people couldn't do that. When I think about the comedy that I've seen you do, it absolutely comports with having a really, really well developed left brain.

[TJ Miller]

Good to see you. What's that? Let's have intercourse in the alley. I dare you to. I won't do it. I'm married and I'm having intercourse with her in the alley later. You can watch, but it's gonna cost you a pita bread. Oh, my God. Are you from here? Everyone's talked about it. No, golly, you look like you dress like you thought New York wanted you to. This fucking guy is a. The tough to blonde tip hair coming out of the backwards hat. It's not even a snapback. It's one of those weird dad hats where you unclip it and then decide how long it'll be. And then he clipped it and he was like, fuck it, Big Apple, let's go. I don't want to be rude, but it's computes. It absolutely computes.

[Mike Pesca]

I'm just compuking out this information, but here.

[TJ Miller]

But you're so quick also. But it's true that I have, you know, less brain mass than Mike or you, or maybe not you, but I like normal people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's so. I think it kind of moves faster. I think that's really helped me in life. Of course, my neurologist, I told him that, he's like, I don't think that that's. I don't agree with that.

[Mike Pesca]

But it does, it does say here.

[TJ Miller]

It'S like, well, what are you, a world class neurologist at Cedar Sinai in Los Angele?

[Mike Pesca]

Do you ever. Dr. Stoeckle, do you ever just piss him off and say, you know, what are you, a rocket scientist? And he's like, no, I'm a brain scientist. That's the idiom you need to hit.

[TJ Miller]

Well, what's great is it is brain surgery.

[Mike Pesca]

What is it? Brain.

[TJ Miller]

Yes. But it's funny because I've said to brain surgeons, because now I know a bunch of brains are like, well, I mean, it's not rocket science.

[Mike Pesca]

It would be awesome if you said that in Grand Central Station.

[TJ Miller]

And I tell them the joke about it. I. I go in neurosurgeons, in terms of the most powerful beings on the planet, it goes, neurosurgeons, God. And then neurosurgeons again.

[Mike Pesca]

Really?

[TJ Miller]

Two out of three ain't bad.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

And they love that. And then they go, well, that's kind of true. They really. You have to be so megalomaniacal to be a neurosurgeon, because it's the hardest. And then once you get in and you lose patients as much as cardiologists, but they think that cardiologists think they're the best, but they're kind of like.

[Mike Pesca]

A neuroscientist is essentially God. I know we maybe think surgeons are God because they control life and death, but a neuroscientist controls your personality, your soul, your intellect. That's what God does. They could go in there and change what we call the soul.

[TJ Miller]

Sure, if you believe in God.

[Mike Pesca]

I just believe in neurosurgery.

[TJ Miller]

Ah. Emotional changes, mood swings.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

Irritability.

[Mike Pesca]

Huh.

[TJ Miller]

Lack of emotional expression. Some people may experience depression, anxiety. Here's a weird one. And then the other, like motor function disabilities and speech and language issues. Emotional expression. Here's a weird one with that. I find it difficult to connect with emotions in general, and I'm sure a lot of men are like this, but I sometimes have trouble connecting with it. So what I'll do is. Drinking can kind of help. But more effective is watching movies. And I think that's maybe why I was always so connected to that, is I had trouble sort of connecting with emotions. And so to sort of have them, I'll watch things that have those cues in them, you know?

[Mike Pesca]

So you train yourself by watching movies. This is what a human being does in this situation. Therefore maybe that's what I should do, kind of.

[TJ Miller]

Or they're feeling this thing, so I could feel this thing. And I also have a tough time putting myself in other people's shoes, which I think has helped me, because I don't really give a shit about what other people think about me, or at least I don't spend a lot of time on it. Right. And I think that can come off, though, as, wow, he really doesn't give a fuck. Which is true. I think it also has come off in my past as he doesn't care. So he could care less about this or that. And they're two very different things. Because if you truly don't give a fuck, that's really freeing and allows you to care.

[Mike Pesca]

Does it make it hard to work in a group?

[TJ Miller]

No, because I started off as an improviser and I always had fun and.

[Mike Pesca]

But you're so quick. Maybe that makes up for the group dynamic. I don't Know, maybe.

[TJ Miller]

Or in a show like Silicon Valley, maybe they were all like, God, this guy's a real bombastic asshole. And then that was exactly the character I was playing. Thank you for meeting with us. We have a bunch of these things to go to, hopefully with more tasteful artwork. And your logo looks like a sideways vagina. I find that to be racist, don't you?

[Mike Pesca]

But also, you weren't getting any sleep during Silicon Valley.

[TJ Miller]

No, because I was doing stand up episodes for 14 or 16 hours.

[Mike Pesca]

And as we've established, when you don't get sleep, this has these add on effects. I think it was probably a bad period for you.

[TJ Miller]

He kind of has a dove. A bit of a vibe of like. Like a Jewish grandmother. Not. Not a mother. Yeah, kind of that, but not even that. It's like. It's more like. I think the. But it's you. Not that kind, but the kind that's like. Well, you know.

[Mike Pesca]

Yeah.

[TJ Miller]

When you don't have a little bit of soup on a day like this is pretty sick. What am I saying? If tomorrow you've got sniffles and I'm buying Kleenex, maybe shoulda listen. Yeah, you're right. It's just. It's all. Look, it's all balance. I have a psychologist, a neuro. Neuropsychologist, a psychiatrist, a neurologist, a mindfulness therapist. Like I have a battery of psychological professionals that are there to sort of keep me in my guardrails. But yeah, I mean it's. I don't know, it's. It also leads to a fair amount of success. So that does.

[Mike Pesca]

This is what I wanted to ask. When you're asking your doctor, will I still be funny, the consideration is will I lose my funniness? But I do think there's a theory and I know since you're smart, you've thought about this, that what made you the talent and person you are today is the fact that the left frontal lobe, which has to make up for the deficits in your right frontal frontal lobe, generally manages. I'm quoting here. Language related functions, positive emotions and assessing novel situations. So it seems.

[TJ Miller]

That's really interesting. Is that true? I never really looked at it. More of a right brain guy then.

[Mike Pesca]

When you're worried about losing your sense.

[TJ Miller]

Is it an existential. Yeah.

[Mike Pesca]

Do we even have free will? Are the sum of your neurology? Certainly not. You worked on your skill, you have personality, you made choices.

[TJ Miller]

I'd never seen that. Because. Because from a language perspective, I have just three quarters of the vocabulary that you have. And it's been hard for me to sit across from you and just see a human God damn thesaurus. Maybe not a dictionary.

[Mike Pesca]

No.

[TJ Miller]

And maybe not always using the right word or the most appropriate, but certainly a guy who has a word a day calendar in every room of the house. So he's going through and tearing them off. Look at them. Yeah, sure. Throw them towards the stove. Yeah, it's not on.

[Mike Pesca]

We hope that'll be good.

[TJ Miller]

But where the Pistons play, Mama. So I, I think, you know, I. I basically aced the English or. Yeah, the English part of my SATs. Yeah, I'm really fast with language, for sure. And what were the other two? I'm really learning something on the podcast today. I didn't think that was gonna happen.

[Mike Pesca]

It says, can inhabit both lions and mucus.

[TJ Miller]

Inhibit.

[Mike Pesca]

Inhibit.

[TJ Miller]

It's pronounced inhibit.

[Mike Pesca]

It's Roy Hibbert who actually played for the. No, okay.

[TJ Miller]

It's pronounced Hubert.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you like a certain amount of chaos, J. Hubert.

[TJ Miller]

J. Edgar. Hubert.

[Mike Pesca]

Do you like a certain amount of chaos in your comedy and in the. In the audiences who show up to the comedy?

[TJ Miller]

I, I mean, I'm good at. And this is a great segue into talking about the time that you saw me on stage at the Comedy Slides.

[Mike Pesca]

I'll tell you about that. A lot of stand ups, right? They want you to laugh, but they really, really want to control the room. They'll do crowd work, but they define it pretty tightly.

[TJ Miller]

I don't think you're like, that's very famous for sort of really not tolerating people who are interrupting the show. And I always think about how someone like Nate Borgazzi just doesn't even want to do that. They're up there to sort of present. But then Norm MacDonald, sort of the greatest of all time. I found out that he. He was happy to come off of his jokes and riff with the crowd. And I think that's like one of the best tests of a great comedian is to allow the audience to be. I don't know how to say this, but in charge of where you go, but you're still in charge of them. I'm thankful to be here. I'm thankful for being with all of you guys. I'm thankful that Germany, it didn't work. Didn't end up working for you guys. Even Merkel's trying to take over Europe with. She realized bullets and bombs don't work, so she's using banks, putting the Greeks in indentured servitude. Anyway, how was your guys Thanksgiving. I'm messing with you. I do wish that you were systematically destroyed. Here's the thing, guys, I'm teasing with you. You gotta listen if you come to America. Oh, you guys aren't German. You're Canadian. You look fucking German. You got guys need to. I. Well, the. You're the problem. But the two of you. The two of you need to stop dressing like Germans. This is crazy. They're both wearing horn rim glasses, and they're just looking at me like, Where you go to get your drinks. You're like, I'm really an improviser at my heart. Like, that's sort of what my skill set is. And so I'm. I'm much more likely to do well by going on stage and just working the material on stage.

[Mike Pesca]

Right?

[TJ Miller]

Because it's still. Even when it's in the early stages, it's still funny. It's just not hitting where I want it to be. But it's a very strange thing where, like, I think part of that is I don't really know where my material comes from. Like, when I'm building a new hour, I'm just sort of like, all right, I'm gonna riff. And then all of a sudden, I'll be like, whoa, I have a chunk. And it's on. Like race and social satire and kind of poking fun at woke culture, but also poking fun at. You know, I mean, and. And then, well, that's that chunk. And then I realized that I have a couple of jokes now, three that are almost mime. Like, all the comedy is completely. Yeah, I was like, that's cool. So maybe I'll build a couple more things like that. And pretty soon, before you know it, I have 20 minutes. So then I'm saying, all right, well, let's actually really try and fill out the next 20 minutes, but that'll be largely improvised as well. So, yeah, everything starts from improvisation, and eventually everything will end with improvisation.

[Mike Pesca]

TJ Miller, his mania, his output might just damn and doom him, but, man, does it lead to a delicious and delightful amount of content and comportment in the world. Tj, thank you.

[TJ Miller]

Podcasting. Thank you so much.

[Mike Pesca]

Thank you. The Gist is produced by Cory Wara. We had help today from Leah Yan. Kathleen Sykes helps me with the Gist list. Jeff Craig does so much with the video and the socials and the visual. He's a master of the visual in this, a primarily audio form. Michelle Pesca also works with the visuals, but is mostly the visionary improve. And thanks for listening.

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