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The Gist
Trump’s Mortgage Attacks and Kessler on Weight Loss
00:38:05
Trump has fired Fed governor Lisa Cook for lying on her mortgage, part of a broader pattern of using mortgage fraud as a political weapon while allies skate by. Former FDA head David Kessler joins again to explain how GLP-1 drugs reshape the fight...
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Mike Pesca
It's Tuesday, Aug. 26, 2025, from Peach Fish Productions. It's the gist. I'm Mike Pesca and the President is moving to fire Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook. Why? She lied on her mortgage. Turns out a lot of people who Donald Trump doesn't like lie on their mortgage. He's going against New York Attorney General Letitia James for the same reason. And in July, Trump accused Senator Adam Schiff for lying on his mortgage. Now, there are other people who have lied on their mortgage that don't come up so much. Ken Paxton, who is the Attorney General of Texas and is challenging Senator John Cornyn Paxton being a right wing firebrand. He has claimed three houses as his primary residence. That is not how primary works. But you know what else doesn't work?
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Interviewer
What?
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Mike Pesca
Marilyn J. Mosby, the former Baltimore City State attorney. That's the D.A. what she was trying to do. She was sentenced to 12 months of home confinement. Which one? Her primary one, I suppose. She was convicted of making a false application and two counts of perjury about her mortgage. I guess when it comes to mortgages and liar loans, everyone's doing it. Uh, certainly everyone seems vulnerable. We'll see how it all plays out. One court in the land overturned a massive judgment about, among other things, mortgage fraud. That was the New York State appeals court and the case was State versus Donald Trump. Donald Trump lied on many mortgages. In this case. He was vindicated, but his overall theory of the case might have been damaged. I Doubt any of this will give him pause as he weaponizes mortgages. On the show today, Laura Loomer's looming lunacy. That's in the spiel. But first, we're back with David Kessler, who's the former head of the fda. He was here yesterday to talk about his citizen lawsuit to try to overturn how ultra processed foods are used. Today he's talking more about his personal experience with weight gain and weight loss and how GLP1s work, how they change our conception of obesity itself. David Kessler, up next. Ever wondered why you keep getting endless.
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Mike Pesca
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Interviewer
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Interviewer
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- [06:52]
Mike Pesca
David Kessler is the author of Diet Drugs and Dopamine the New Science of Achieving a Healthy Weight. He used to run the FDA, and I asked Dr. Kessler about the idea of taking these drugs for only a short time, which he recommended, and then relearning how to eat. This is the ideal, but this happened to him. So the question is, when you lost weight in the past, didn't you tell yourself, I finally done the hard thing, I took off the pounds and now I will just eat right, drawing on my knowledge as an informed physician and live right, because I know how to. Only that's hard. Don't you know that from having tried it before?
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David Kessler
Yeah, but I tried it with nutrition therapy alone. And nutrition therapy alone really is just deprivation. I mean, when you're talking about reduction of calories, yes, you can change the composition of your food. I can take out this rapidly absorbable glucose. That can help. I can eat. I can go low carb. That will help. If I'm hyperinsulinemic, that can play an important role and that gets me to eat less. It increases my satiety, it decreases my appetite. But the thing about nutrition and therapy is those countervailing forces are unmitigated when you're on just nutrition therapy. At least when you're on these drugs, I mean, you have help calming down those circuits that are screaming out, feed me more, feed me more.
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Interviewer
Is nutrition therapy a term of art or what does that exactly mean?
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David Kessler
Well, you know, we tend to not to talk about diets anymore. I mean, there are thousands and thousands of diet books, you know, none of them, you know, I mean, again, everything fails in the end. So, I mean, it's a journey. You have to, I mean, there is no end game, right? When you're dealing with weight and you're dealing with the circuits, we just have more tools today and we have more highly effective tools. We just have to learn to use them better.
- [09:09]
Interviewer
Are you, are you confident that the prevalence or the availability of GLP1s will work? If you use them as they're typically used for six or seven months, you get to a, let us not say goal weight, but a goal body composition. And then you or someone could say, and now I shall eat better or healthier.
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Mike Pesca
It seems that that last part is still elusive.
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David Kessler
Look, if you change your relationship with food. First of all, I am not confident we don't have the data to show that. I mean, there is, there's some very preliminary data that say you go off these drugs, you go on a low carb diet. There are other ways, I mean, to maintain that. There's beginning to be some data, but this is the wild west out there with these drugs. Let's face, you know, we have to get more data. I do think that they are a powerful tool. I mean, I can tell you where I am today with my weight, with my health, with my, I mean, I've, you know, cut my percent body fat, my visceral adiposity, about half of what I was, changed all, all my, my health parameters. But I can, you know, and I've been able to maintain it for now, tomorrow, no promises. I mean, this is a journey. I mean, it's why I, it's why I wrote the book, because people, you know, again, once you make the decision to do something, you have to understand that there's not a one and done here. Mm.
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Interviewer
I want to ask you about. I've. I had in the past, people on. There are different phrases for this movement, but healthy at any size. It was the idea that we've stigmatized being overweight so much that that is worse than, than actually being overweight. And I would argue occasionally with these people, first conceding the point that stigma doesn't help anyone. Second of all, absolutely stipulating that we have these horrible, unrealistic conceptions of especially women's bodies.
- [11:11]
Mike Pesca
All of that is true, but it.
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Interviewer
Seems, well, it is scientific fact that there is a level of obesity, disfavor term, whatever you want to call it, that can be so high that no one with any grounding in science can say anything other than this is very dangerous. Point one. And point two is by you can go so overboard by, by concentrating on the negative effects of the stigma, you can convince yourself that there's absolutely nothing wrong with something that is unhealthy for the person. Would you agree with that?
- [11:46]
David Kessler
So up to now there have not been very effective tools, right? So in the face of tools that didn't work, you know, I could understand. You know, I think that, you know, my friends in that community, you know, love your body, I give them enormous credit on getting. Reducing the stigma, reducing the shame. Right. Again, the issue is not weight. The issue is this visceral adiposity. The only thing I would plead with them is you can love your body, but you can also take care of your health. So the question, I mean, look, these are hard conversations to have, right? I mean, we have to realize weight, you know, I mean, the stigma, the shame, just being able to talk about it is hard. And can I talk? I mean, in doing this book was very important, was not to add to that stigma or shame. But again, it's not a bad way. I am very concerned and I think there certainly were legitimate points in the absence of things that worked, going on these diets only to gain back the weight. There was a lot of. I could understand where they were coming from. But now that we have this, I just don't want to throw in the towel. I mean, on health, I am concerned, right? I think these drugs, I mean, again, no panacea here, no magic pills. We talked about the malnutrition. I mean, there are real adverse events, but there's a risk of eating disorders, right? I mean, I said at a medical meeting, you know, it wasn't very. I mean, aren't these drugs just forced anorexia? I mean, and to some extent that's true. And that's why they have to be managed. I mean, when you have something as powerful biologically to have an effect on appetite, I mean, it has to be, you know, taken very carefully and wisely.
- [13:58]
Interviewer
So I want to ask you about, I want to ask you a lot of things. Oh, let me ask you this first. And what about the effects of disrupting compulsions in terms of gambling, in terms of. We've heard some drug use. So the two part question is, does the fact that this has shown up to some degree. Please tell me the degree. Indicate how the GOP ones are working and what does it mean for all this entire field of anything, addiction or that which we are compelled to do that is against our best interests.
- [14:31]
David Kessler
Same circuits at play. You know, we're all wired to focus on the most salient Stimuli we all get captured by, you know, I mean, anything that can change how we feel, anything that's psychoactive. Right. Now, what, what you get captured by and what I get captured by, you know, may be very different. Right, but these are the addictive circuits of play. Look, the data is, the data are out on these other, you know, behavioral addictions. Whether the GLP1 drugs will work. There's some preliminary evidence. But again, if these drugs are working primarily by, you know, in the gut and you don't want to add more food and there's a condition learning and I'm trying to avoid add food. Does that kind of carry over to alcohol? I mean, or shopping or. My sense is they're certainly working on the gut, but they're also maybe working on certain of the brain circuits. When, when scientists gave their predecessor molecules, these, these early GLP1 drugs to laboratory animals, again, these were different doses. The animals didn't move. They coined the term visceral malaise. There was a generalized illness. I think a lot's going to be in the dose and we're going to have to see. My sense is for some people, shutting this down may have some effect, but I think, I think a lot of this has to do with the gut. So I wouldn't be surprised if the primary effect, I mean, really is on food.
- [16:12]
Interviewer
Okay. I want to ask you about your time as co. Covid czar and obesity. There were some studies that said that obesity was just as dangerous as advanced age, maybe not 85 plus, but just as correlative to death from COVID as being older than 65 and the messaging. But I also think, and is that importantly the definition of what was the most responsible and efficacious way to get vaccines out did not take that into effect. Was it just too much of a fear of stigmatization or were there other considerations where people. Vaccines weren't being prioritized for say the very overweight, when maybe it would have done more than prioritizing them for people who are 69 years old.
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David Kessler
So, you know, a lot, a lot to talk about. In your question, did you, you lose anyone close? I mean, I mean, I mean in the pandemic, I, I lost a colleague. Right. Very early on. I mean, you know, I, I was, you know, I was advising, you know, the then, you know, President elect, the then vice president who became president elect. I didn't come in to co lead warp speed until January 2021. You know, I have a lot of, you know, great. That team that was in place was Terrific. You know, and, you know, we continued that work, but my friend and colleague that. Who died in, you know, in the first 30 days, you know, I go back and, you know, he was obese. I mean, there was just a great deal of insulin resistance, right? I mean, there was this toxic fat. You know, none of us knew this, right? None of us understood this, the real inflammatory cascade that would occur. And you are right again, it's not weight. My guess is it was this visceral adiposity, this inflammatory soup that our organs bathe in. You have the overwhelming respiratory infection, you add this inflammatory soup to it, and that's why he died. Did I have any right?
- [18:42]
Mike Pesca
Right. Not because they were overweight, like to.
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Interviewer
Be very clear, because they were some combination of. And these oral, oral comorbidities, insulin resistant and have the visceral fat.
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David Kessler
They're not comorbidities. Let's, let's understand. These are not comorbidities. This is the result of a disease process that occurs with this pathological sick fat. They are part of that progression. It starts.
- [19:08]
Interviewer
Visceral fat, insulin resistance, chronic inflammation, crime, right?
- [19:13]
David Kessler
And, and it starts, it starts from that. Again, it's not just that these diseases just happen to coincide. These diseases, these are natural progression. I mean, and docs, cardiologists, nephrologists, neurologists, we're just waking up to this fact, right, that the. There really is a unified underlying basis. I mean, it's almost as if we're recognizing a new disease. I mean, it's been there all along, but it's this adipometabolic cardiorenal disease that is all tied together that is really resulting in the chronic disease in this country, much of it.
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Interviewer
So the question, though, with COVID and knowing what we learned about COVID could anything, should anything have been done differently if we had known that from the onset outset of the pandemic?
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David Kessler
Oh, I mean, I mean, if we had known. Look, I mean, we have only. It was a. First of all, there was a lot we didn't know. This was a new, you know, this, a lot of this was completely new. It was very intense. We lost a million people. We got to the other side, luckily. No doubt this should have. It would have been great to know a lot more. Could I have kept my friend from going to the subway in the first 20 days of this pandemic when this is going around New York before? I mean, could I, you know, have prevented him from coming in contact with that virus? Because what I've singled him out early on, look, we just, we didn't have that, that insight. I mean, it was still, I will tell you, you know, and here's the thing that just, I think is important. I think if you look at first term warp speed was Trump's, I would say, greatest success. I work with those guys, enormous credit getting that vaccine out as quickly. No vaccine is perfect, but it was a phenomenal accomplishment. We were able to do that not because we were smarter, they were smarter because we had the infrastructure that was built up over decades, the scientific infrastructure, the nih, the biomedical research. That's why we were able to get those vaccines out when we did. So the greatest success that the president did, you know, was based on that infrastructure. And now they're going after that infrastructure, that biomedical research. I don't get it.
- [22:31]
Interviewer
By the time vaccines were out, there was questions about prioritization. And I didn't hear anything regarding obesity in terms of being a priority.
- [22:43]
David Kessler
Certainly very early on. I mean, I was watching it. I mean, I was watching, I mean the scientific, I mean, I think there is no doubt that we saw early on that that was a risk factor. I mean, we go back and see by what month that was being reported. Look, we always knew that weight wasn't good, good for us, right? The obesity wasn't good for us, right? But we did. I mean, that was a very stark example, right? I mean it was probably the starkest example of really what that biology and what it's really doing to us. And I can tell you this is not just about COVID I mean, and that toxic waste. I mean, you look at much of heart failure today, cardiac disease, diabetes. I mean, this is playing out. It may not be hitting you overnight and ending up in the ICU within a week, I mean, of a virus. But the devastation from this toxic fat is still playing out as real. You know, it's costing us trillion dollars a year, clearly.
- [23:54]
Interviewer
But my question is when the prioritization of vaccines were being decided, what am I wrong? Obesity wasn't part of the calculation, was it?
- [24:07]
David Kessler
We certainly, I mean, I have to go back. It was certainly one of the risk factors that was identified early on, right? I don't know exactly the month that it was being that it was identified.
- [24:29]
Interviewer
Now I want to ask you about the Maha report, which is chaired by RFK Jr. And there were, it's essentially four prongs. Their conclusion that the breakdown of what is causing the childhood chronic disease situation in the United States is ultra processed foods, environmental chemicals, lack of physical activity and chronic stress and over medicalization. Do you agree with those as being the four main factors of a childhood chronic disease epidemic in the U.S. yeah.
- [25:07]
David Kessler
But I think it's my concern about that. I think it's, it was written, it's a little bit that they did. It was the kitchen sink, right?
- [25:15]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
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David Kessler
So, so I, I had the privilege of doing the investigation into tobacco. Probably the great, great public health success made of our lifetimes over 75 years. We were highly focused on smoking. I think RFK Jr certainly has tapped into, I mean this is about, call it ultra processed, ultra formulated foods. No doubt that is the real culprit in this toxic food. Visceral fat, no doubt. I mean it's affecting kids. No doubt. The chronic disease is something that is very much, I mean, on our minds. I don't think, I mean, you know, they, they are, they're focused on food dyes, on seed oil. I mean, however laudable that is. Right. I don't think, I think if you put everything on your list, right. I mean if it were up to me, I'd be much more focused. I'd be razor focused on what this visceral adiposity is doing. As you said, what it did to us in Covid this inflammatory milieu. And I would make sure people had the tools from an early age to be able to combat it. I don't think there was. I mean, I think they've identified, they've identified the problem, but I don't think the focus is fully there.
- [26:43]
Interviewer
The MAHA movement has captured the imagination of a lot of people, a lot of people who weren't that into politics. It is a combination of things that you and those in most identify with your part of the public health community have been saying for a long time. So to the extent that people are aware of the kind of foods that we eat, that's good. And then you even said, you know, however laudable food dyes seed oil, I take it to mean you think that there's some, there's some benefit to that. Then he has his, his whole over medicalization. How do you look at it that on net. Is it good that we're talking about it in this way?
- [27:22]
David Kessler
Yeah, I mean, look, the one thing I learned about Washington, my experience, you know, just n of 1 is you have to get some. When you're going to do these things, you got to get it right and you got to get it exactly right the first time. Right. And I think that, you know, they just, they just got to focus and figure out what they're going to Tackle and how they're going to do it. You know, you can't do this by press conference. I mean, look, some of this, I mean, is bully pulp, right? But I mean, governing is hard work. You know, we had a, when we went after tobacco, I mean, we were very focused on nicotine, on reducing access to nicotine. I mean, that took, you know, 75 years. We don't have time, you know, that kind of time to wait here. I just think there's the. Again, I, I think they've thrown a lot of things in this. I and I just. Again, you can choose, choose which one you want to go after, but any one is going to take full effort and a great deal of focus. And I don't see that focus right now or really knowing how to do it. I mean, it's great to talk about it, but being able to. We've been dealing with these ultra formulated, highly processed foods for a couple of decades. The reason I wrote the book, you know, was I don't think we can wait, you know, 20, 30 years to change the food environment. I think we got to protect ourselves.
- [29:03]
Interviewer
And the last question is, do you think, however, the mechanism is Medicare Part D or whatever else we need to have government subsidies for the drugs that we're talking about?
- [29:15]
David Kessler
Absolutely. I mean, could you imagine struggling, you know, your whole life with this, having the, the disease, suffering? I mean, you care about chronic disease, you now have tools to deal with these diseases and now you don't have access to it. I mean, the health care system is just so broken and the GLP1s are, I mean, I think, you know, example, you know, a great example of that Companies, you know, overly priced these drugs, you know, and threw a cork in the system because people wanted access, needed access to impact their health. They had to resort to these compounded drugs. Some of whom. Where were those chemicals coming from? They weren't being made by the branded manufacturers under the normal inspectional systems. They weren't part of what's in my. The FDA had drug master files here. People had to go to compounded drugs, some of whom, you know, the drugs weren't even sure where the drugs were coming from. They were manufactured in China. The FDA wasn't inspecting them. You didn't, you couldn't assure the safety. So I have to resort to substandard drugs because other drugs are too expensive. Now the drug companies come along and see their market share being taken by these compounded drugs so they lower their price. I mean, something's wrong with that picture. I mean, you know, but you know, there's a bigger picture here. Just, just call a spade a spade. The fact is, you have one industry making billions of dollars that makes us sick. You have another industry making profits to reverse what that first industry does. I mean, if you were somebody from a different planet and came and saw that problem, you would say, hey, go fix that underlying problem, which are these energy dense, highly palatable, ultra formulated, ultra processed foods.
- [31:11]
Interviewer
David Kessler is a former FDA commissioner appointed by Presidents George H.W. bush and Bill Clinton, led the FDA in the 90s and dean of Yale's and USCF's medical schools and was the Chief Science Officer for the Biden administration's Covid Response and his book is Diet Drugs and Dopamine the New Science of Achieving a healthy weight. Dr. Kessler, thank you so much.
- [31:35]
David Kessler
Thanks enormous.
- [31:48]
Mike Pesca
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- [31:52]
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Mike Pesca
That's not the itinerary we're following.
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- [32:15]
David Kessler
Bon voyage.
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Mike Pesca
Whether you're into comedians roasting each other's life choices or turning yesterday's bad decisions into today's funny stories, Amazon Music's got the most ad free top podcasts included with Prime. Download the Amazon Music app and get in on the joke or go to Amazon.com adfreecomedy that's Amazon.com ad freecomedy to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. And now the spiel. If you haven't steeped yourself in Laura Loomer's life story before the recent spate of takeout pieces in America's leading publications, the first impression you likely carried into things was that Laura Loomer was a Trump sycophant who was a little bit nutty. But now, after so many reports are out, you could at least be disabused of the modifier. Little in the New York Times, Ken Bensinger reconstructs Loomers trajectory. He also did a full episode of the daily podcast on this Here in a crowded restaurant, she talks about President Trump's reaction to her work.
- [33:53]
David Kessler
He's just staring at me.
- [33:58]
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- [34:00]
Mike Pesca
Lumer grew up in a single parent household where one brother descended into schizophrenia and threatened life of his siblings. Loomer was shipped off to an Arizona boarding school where she first displayed the radical anti Islamic tendencies that would become her brand. The Atlantic contribution to the Uevra was written by Michael Shearer. It pivots towards her side hustle. She has a consulting business though I gotta say, calling her main hustle a hustle is a little bit of an insult to hustles. Her main hustle is better described as paranoid vendettas that fuel autocrats. The Free Press's Gabe Kameninsky updated Loomer's looming lunacy by noting that her influence, even at its height, always erratic, is waning within the White House. They're sick of her. The Free Press headlined its piece White House Officials have had it with Laura Loomer. This was apparently News 2 Newsweek, which five days after the Free Press piece ran, had its own profile headlined Laura Loomer's Influence is Growing. I don't know. The Newsweek piece didn't have much original reporting at all. It did have a quote from Heath Brown, an associate professor of public policy at the City University of New York, quote, it's hard to think of someone in recent history that seems to have such influence over key presidential decisions that doesn't hold an official position in the White House or federal government. I don't know. I can think of a ton depending how far back you want to go. And not to fdr. How about Arthur Laffer, Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, Tucker Carlson? Let's go to the Biden administration, Ted Kaufman, John Meacham, and think about Obama. Just because Oprah wasn't tweeting about firing the Customs and Border Protection official doesn't mean Oprah wasn't influential. But what sets Loomer apart from is that the other hangers on or advisers or kitchen cabinet whisperers weren't full on crazy ants in the cupboard. Loomer is that and more, and also.
- [35:59]
Interviewer
A whole lot less.
- [36:00]
Mike Pesca
Well, you might have missed if you already knew the broad contours of a figure who took opposition research straight to the president and though with diminishing returns, still occasionally manages to get members of the executive branch fired. So here's a little bit of the irony. Loomer is such a singular creature that even these would be definitive magazine profiles going long on the extremist template still have to leave out marquee episodes of Loomer being bananas. The Times, for instance, in thousands of words and a whole daily episode, didn't even note that Loomer gained notoriety originally by bursting onto a Shakespeare in the park production to protest a Trump as Julius Caesar depiction. The Atlantic omitted her stunt chaining herself to Twitter headquarters, and even when the Times mentioned chaining herself to Twitter headquarters, it skipped the comic opera detail that she botched the protest. She affixed her wrist to a single door handle, leaving staff and visitors free to bypass her simply by using the other door, pausing only to ogle the strange woman with signs about anti Semitism, who eventually had to beg the police to cut her free. All right, let's say you don't want to burn your sanity, but you want some bullet points. Here's some fun facts about Loomer High school resume manager of both the football and rodeo teams she's banned on the apps. No, not just social media apps, Uber and Lyft. She declared she didn't want to ride with a Muslim driver. So even if she wasn't banned, if they just did good customer service, I don't think she was getting many rides. Dog food ate it on air. We have a clip of that.
- [37:40]
David Kessler
It's clearly says dog food topper and.
- [37:43]
Amazon Music Advertiser
I'm going to put this in my.
- [37:44]
David Kessler
Mouth right now.
- [37:48]
Amazon Music Advertiser
So it tastes like meat. And maybe that is disgusting to you.
- [37:54]
Mike Pesca
The Times has her going to meet with Donald Trump at the Kennedy center, only to be blocked during a production of Les Mis. She couldn't get to the president. At the end of the day, she was denied. She was also denied a Florida concealed carry permit. The Times doesn't say why, but it could be, at least according to Grok, because she's been involuntarily committed a couple times. I don't want to spread that rumor, but you know Loomers on Twitter. Grok's the official AI of Twitter. That's what Grok says. Even Republicans recoil. Here's a quote even many Republicans mislumor approach like Representative Andy Ogles, Tennessee of regarded her tentatively, as if she just might bite. Andy Ogles Andy Ogles introduced the constitutional amendment to let Trump serve a third Term. He filed articles of impeachment against judges who ruled against Trump. When Andy Ogles thinks you're the loose cannon, well, artillery, latch thine self here. Let's get into the Marjorie Taylor Greene stuff. She publicly claimed Marjorie Taylor Greene, quote, gave blowjobs in the back rooms of CrossFit gyms, adding on Twitter. How do you call yourself a Christian when you're wearing a cross while getting bent over backwards inside the gym by every man who isn't your husband? I would just like to note. I don't think she means bent over backwards. I think she means just bent over. Just a note. Just a note. Take my note, Laura. And here's another great one. I love this one. She claimed that Green had Arby's in her pants. If you're saying. What is that? It's a reference to Green's genitalia being unsightly, shall we say? And she was asked about this in a deposition where she's suing Bill Maher, the comedian. So the lawyers wanted to establish. Well, you say some outrageous things yourself. I will now read from the deposition here. Bear with me. This is a good one. Lawyer, can you explain to me what it means to say that the Arby's is in her pants? Answer. Well, Arby's, Mr. Clayman, that's. That's Loomer's lawyer. Objection. Relevancy. Question. Answer the question. Answer. RB Sells roast beef. Question. Right. Can you tell me what. Why were you talking about Arby's in her pants? Well, it's just an expression. What is the expression trying to convey? It conveys the reason why she got a divorce by her own admission. Because she has roast beef in her pants. Yes. She put roast beef in her pants. That's what you're trying to say here. You're literally saying she put Arby's in her pants. I'm saying she literally. It's so ridiculous. I'm saying she literally put Arby's in her pants. Question. So what is your basis for saying she had Arby's in her pants? Answer. Because I know she likes to eat Arby's and she likes to put it in her pants. Answer. Yeah, she puts Arby's in her pants. Answer. Yeah, it does. Okay. If I asked Marjorie Taylor Greene, she would tell me she puts Arby's in her pants. Answer. It's my best belief that she would tell you that. Thanks for bearing with me. My stance on Laura Loomer has long been to treat her as a dangerous joke. I don't want to supply her more oxygen than necessary. She's very good at oxygen. The reason that all these magazines did profiles of her is you can't ignore her. And she said yes. And she tweeted out at least a couple of them. I don't think the Free Press one, certainly the Atlantic one. I think the same way. A little bit about Alligator Alcatraz. It's the White House's intention to shock and how can you not be shocked? It and Loomer, horrible things. The Trump initiative is so brazenly awful, you got to say something. But they're depending on people like me and you and normal people saying something. Here's another example. The ludicrous spectacle of dispatching detainees to Eswatini. It's just an obscure choice that makes no sense, except for reasonable, normal people to say that makes no sense. So I do think that giving this scattershot lunatic a hearing, it may feel unavoidable. And I really don't criticize any of the articles I read about her. But let's also note, it fulfills precisely the desire of the architects of this lunacy. Trump himself has likened Loomer to Roy Cohen. Loomer in the Free Press, gleefully accepted the comparison to Joseph McCarthy. But McCarthy was an elected U.S. senator and a war, if not hero, a tail gunner. Cohen was an accomplished lawyer, very, very smart, a staffer of House committees, an operator of unparalleled influence. By definition, they had more heft, more consequence than Laura Loomer. Or they should. Because maybe the new Roy Cohen isn't someone with gravity and credentials. Maybe the model has shifted. Maybe the real analog to McCarth Cohen in our era is not a Senate operator or a courtroom tactician, but a dog food eater who doesn't even know the right door to chain herself to. It could be. And as with almost everything that Laura Loomer says, even under oath, anything could be. And that's it for today's show. Cory Wara produces the gist of Ashley Khan is our production coordinator, Leo Baum. He's out there bombing it up. We are still looking for a new social media manager. Until then, Astra Green is helping along. Kathleen Sykes writes the gist list. There wasn't one today, there'll be one tomorrow. Philip Swissgood helps with all substack endeavors and Michelle Pesca oversees it all improve. And thanks for listening.
- [43:41]
Libsyn Ads Advertiser
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