Loading summary
Transcript77 lines
- [00:00]
Mike Pesca
What is Dadication?
- [00:01]
Bradley Tusk
The thing that drives me every day as a dad is Dariona. We call him Dae Date for short. Every day he's hungry for something, whether it's attention, affection, knowledge. And there's this huge responsibility in making sure that when he's no longer under my wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to sit back one day and go, we worked together. We did a good job.
- [00:22]
Mike Pesca
That's Dadication. Find out more@fatherhood.gov brought to you by the U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.
- [00:29]
Factor Ad
This episode is brought to you by Factor Optimize your nutrition this year with Factor America's number one Ready to Eat meal service. Factor's Fresh Never Frozen meals are dietitian approved. Ready to eat in just two minutes. Choose from 40 weekly options across eight dietary preferences like calorie smart, protein plus and keto eat smarter at FactorMeals.com listen50 and use code listen50 for 50% off plus free shipping on your first box that factor meals.com/listen50 code listen50 t's and c's apply.
- [00:59]
Mike Pesca
I have a substack. Don't know if you know that sometimes on my sub stack I'll write an essay that I call the Pesca Profundities portion of the substack. But really, every day I'll have five to seven items that if you fail to acknowledge them, you're going to be a worse person. Not just worse off, but not as interesting. Behind the times and a little slow on the uptake. This is called the Gist List. It is shot through with my aphorisms and observations. For instance, did you know that Texas was making Daylight Savings Time permanent? You would if you read the Gist list. Do you know that penguin poop cools the planet? You would if you read the Gist list. Did you know that if Trump's threats to Harvard go through their crew team, or I guess you could say their crew is going to be hit hard. A lot of Englishmen and women on the crew team. These are just some of the exciting items on the just list. Again, I would just hate for you to be an unoptimized, less than extremely interesting person. Go to Mike pesca.substack.com to get the written word and now enjoy the spoken It's Wednesday, May 28, 2025 from Peach F Productions. It's the Gist. I'm Mike Pesca so I substack noted snowd I snoted an observation the other day it was about the TV show the Rehearsal, which just had its season two finale last night. And I snoted that the Rehearsal is the best comedy on television, but if it weren't a comedy, it would be the best non comedy on television. Sometimes when you're invested in an ongoing cultural project and you recommend it, that project can land the plane so expertly, as it were, that you feel something beyond joy or satisfaction, it's closer to an investment. You feel pride. And that's how I feel about the Rehearsal Season two. I won't get into what the show is about. It is starring Nathan Fielder, and he concocts elaborate real life scenarios and experiments to make a point. And this year the point was about airplane safety. And it was a good point. It was a useful point. That's why even if you don't watch the show, you'll probably be seeing stories about the issue that he raised about communication in the cockpit and mental health and airline pilots. By the way, I was reading a lot about this issue as the Rehearsal was going on this season and actual pilots were saying, yes, we know this, yes, everyone in the field is aware of this. A lot of training is done about communication in the cockpit, and Fielder is not bringing up anything we don't know. I get that. I note that it's still useful to bring it to a wider audience. But I. I will say that with last night's episode, Fielder kind of subtly changed the terms of the discussion a bit to expand it from communication in the cockpit, per say, to mental health and admitting mental frailties, which the FAA actively discourages among pilots. And the pilots that I saw online who are reacting to this were saying, yes, that really is an issue, a crisis even. And it's all done with jokes and great timing. And I swear by the end, the writing and the imagery could bring a man to tears. That is, if that man were to admit frailty, which pilots are, and maybe podcast hosts are not allowed to do. I also was thinking of a phrase, and the phrase is very unique. Now, there's a logical argument against the phrase very unique, said to be an ungrammatical phrase, unique being an absolute and very acknowledging a continuum. But I think when we say very unique, we know what we're saying, and what we're saying is something like quite exceptional. Or how about this? This guy, Nathan Fielder, he's one of a kind unique. And the kind he is is really, really great. I don't usually take up this space in the front of the show talking about culture, but this was an exception. A very unique exception. So on the show today. Let's get local. We need to no one better than Bradley Tusk. Bradley's an old friend, a venture capitalist. Here's the story. Early client says I can't pay in cash. I could pay in stock. That client young company, Uber. So now Tusk is doing quite well. It's very successful, very good writer. He wrote a memoir called the Fixer, wrote a book. He was on the show talking about flying cars. He also was top advisor to Mike Bloomberg. Before that he worked for Rod Blagojevich. He decided to blow the whistle on his corrupt boss and now he's a go to insightful political thinker, especially about New York political issues. So I thought you'd bring him on to talk about the mayor's race here in New York. It's looking like Cuomo, Bradley Tusk up next. You know there's a lot of stress out there and sometimes that could have an impact on your performance. You don't like to talk about it, you don't like to think about it. And then it becomes a spot spiral getting in the way of your performance. If ED is getting you down, you know, the Ed that I speak of hims will help you get your confidence and some other things back up. You could be ready when the mood strikes. Feeling a little stalled in the bedroom. Through hims you could get some gas back in the tank. And I'm not necessarily even talking about fossil burning fuels. Talking about yes, your love engine. HIMSS is changing men's health care by providing you with access to affordable sexual health treatments from the comfort of your couch. HIMSS provides access to a range of doctor trusted ED treatments like chewable tablets. Perhaps you've heard of Viagra and Cialis and you're going to save 95% on these name brands. Medicines there's an intake form. A medical provider will determine if it's the right treatment option. Then they'll send it to you. No insurance. One Low price covers everything. Start your free online Visit today@hisss.com the Gist that's hims.com the Gist for your personalized ED treatment options. Hisss.com the Gist the featured products include compounded products which are not approved nor verified for safety effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions and important safety information. Prices vary based on product and subscription plan. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. Growing up, did you get any better advice in financial education than the phrase money doesn't grow on trees? And this Was of course, during a time when more money was cash than there is now. So in a way it kind of did. I mean, what a cliche. How unhelpful. You need better. And this is where Greenlight enters the picture. They're a debit card and a money app made for families that help kids learn to save, invest and spend wisely. And you as the parents can set conditions, let's say do some chores along with the money. But there's learning involved, there's confidence and skill building and it's accessible. Games are played. But I come back to the chores feature. The chores feature really does link money with a reason that you've earned your money. I wish we had something like green light in my house. My house was pretty good growing up. I don't know that the money doesn't grow on trees thing was said so often, but there just wasn't the technology available. That green light brings to the picture where you could do all the things that I'm talking about and really make learning about money an enjoyable and remunerative to some extent experience. Easy, convenient. Parents and kids together, millions of them are using Greenlight. Start your risk free Greenlight trial today@greenlight.com the gist. That's greenlight.com the gist to get started greenlight.com/the gist. So you know, I'm a New Yorker. I am fascinated by New York politics and sometimes I talk to a friend of mine who's an expert on New York politics. More than an expert. He ran campaigns and he was a right hand man of Michael Bloomberg has been in politics a long time now he runs a bookstore and writes books. And the thing about friendship in 2025.
- [09:45]
Bradley Tusk
I do other stuff too. I don't just.
- [09:47]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, I know. But the thing about friendship in 2025 is if you have a podcast, your friend probably has a podcast. So when I say I talk to Bradley Tusk about politics, I pretty much do it on podcasts, which is what we're doing now. Hello Bradley, welcome back to the gist. Thanks for being my pal and talking politics with me today.
- [10:06]
Bradley Tusk
Yeah, so a few quick things around that. So one is, it is so funny how because I listen to your podcast, either you kind of keep up with someone, but through their podcast. But also if you meet someone. So like I had dinner with Derek Thompson maybe a month or two ago and I love his podcast but I'd never met him before and it was, it did feel like a little surreal, right? To be like. Cause you think you're friends with these people. They have no idea you exist, but because they're sort of like the intimacy between the listener and the podcaster is just different than any other form of media.
- [10:39]
Mike Pesca
But I'll tell you the big, the weird one for me is with you, we're talking like we've always talked or how I expect to hear you.
- [10:46]
Bradley Tusk
And for the listeners, Mike and I have known each other since 1980. 89.
- [10:50]
Mike Pesca
Yes, high school students. But if I were to meet a Derek Thompson or especially a Matt Iglesias, which I have, why are they talking so slow? I listen. I listen at one and a half speed, so it really wrecks it for me.
- [11:02]
Bradley Tusk
Oh, that really screws you up.
- [11:03]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
- [11:05]
Bradley Tusk
Matt was my intern when I worked for Chuck, and I knew he was destined for greater things, and he did.
- [11:10]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, he's way too smart. So we could talk about the abundance agenda, but first, let's talk. Let's go local New York mayoral race. We have. We have nine candidates. Two of them have the initial ZM that is unfathomable to me. So you've been doing these events at your bookstore, PNT Knitwear, with city and state, and you've interviewed how many have had?
- [11:33]
Bradley Tusk
Probably four of six or seven. I think tomorrow is Lander. I think Zell knows this week too. Cuomo is coming up at some point, so we'll be just about done with everyone in the next two weeks.
- [11:44]
Mike Pesca
What's the Cuomo negotiation like? Harder than the rest.
- [11:47]
Bradley Tusk
Yeah, yeah. As you can imagine. But I do think it will happen.
- [11:53]
Mike Pesca
What are you trying to get at that they aren't in all the other fora that they're doing?
- [11:58]
Bradley Tusk
Well, I mean, to me, I'm actually, I'm not a journalist. Right. Like, yes, I have a podcast, but I'm not a journalist. And so my goal is not to grill them. Like, you know, One of the ZMs, Oren Mondame, was on the podcast and I don't agree with him on pretty much anything, but my view was like, look, man, I want to give you a forum to get your vision out there for how you would govern this city, what you would do specifically, how you'd go about it. And I just try to use, having worked in and around city governments for a couple of decades now, my knowledge of all of it, to just try to guide the conversation in ways that a pushes them in tangible directions and then balance. Because most of the forums tend to be very community and group focused and therefore very left wing. And yet there's this huge cognitive dissonance right now, where the voters writ large or the residents writ large. When you look at the polling, I've just seen a ton of polling, and then the very narrow groups of people who tend to really be involved in local politics, the voters writ large very much are upset about the city feeling dirty and dangerous, and they want someone that's gonna clean it up, which is why Cuomo was way ahead. And yet the very, very small groups tend to be ultra progressive, and they don't believe in things like law enforcement or incarceration or whatever it is. And so I think a lot of the times these community forums are really getting at the same handful of issues that a very small group of voters care about. The other thing I've tried to do on my podcast with the candidates is, is say, like, okay, will you keep Jesse Tish as police commissioner? Do you think New York City should run its own subways? What are you doing at the illegal weed shops when you about the scaffolding? Like, the kind of stuff that I think most people actually care about.
- [13:44]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, scaffolding. If polled on scaffolding, that would be the number one or two issue.
- [13:49]
Bradley Tusk
So I've polled it, and it's about 8020. And then we actually did pass a law, we worked on it out of my foundation in late March that will hopefully, over time, meaningfully change it. So the law does a few things. One is it meaningfully increases the amount of time between mandated inspections. Two, it really reduces the amount of time that you're allowed to have the scaffolding up. And then three, it has, at least in the law, real enforcement of that. So if you have right now, a lot people leave the scaffolding up because it's actually cheaper than taking it up and down. But if the fines are big enough, then all of a sudden, you will comply with the law. So my hope is that that will largely solve the problem.
- [14:27]
Mike Pesca
So I sense, and I've seen some polling, that the public is not excited, but it mostly show up as not even being terribly aware that there is a mayor race upon us. And this is because the normal calendar of elections, we think about these things after Memorial Day, and we think about these things in the fall. But the elections that matter in a big Democratic city like New York are the primaries. And so that's in June. That's how it is. You've done more about primary reform, which might be my number one political reform issue, than anyone I know, but, mm. The public isn't terribly interested, having met almost all the candidates one on One, are you more sanguine about the prospects or the crop than the average questions?
- [15:10]
Bradley Tusk
Yeah, a little bit. Hugo, my producer, sitting next to me, so I'm kind of looking at him. I think that we have sort of generally agreed that they were all a little more impressive than we expected coming in. Now, that may just be that they were briefed enough to tell me what I want to hear and that, you know, they're good talkers. Yeah.
- [15:29]
Mike Pesca
They could code switch. They know who you are. They know your audience. Yeah, yeah.
- [15:33]
Bradley Tusk
So some of that. But overall, I have found them to be a little more informed than you would think. But. But the problem is, and we saw this with de Blasio, and we saw this with Eric Adams, it's very hard to go from never managing anyone or anything to running the biggest city in America, the most important city the world, a budget of well over $100 billion a workfor 300,000 people, if you don't know what you're doing right. And a lot of the people who have come through are smart, and some of them are even thoughtful. And it's not that they don't want to do a good job, whether or not I agree with their particular views on any given issue, but I think the question is, do they have the ability to do it? And to me, there's really one key thing, and I've tried to ask everyone about this. I actually thought that Jim Walden, not that he has any chance of winning, but gave the best answer, which is, who are you going to hire? Because ultimately, like as you said, I worked for Mike Bloomberg. I ran one of his campaigns for mayor. And the reason why Mike was a really successful mayor, was he the smartest guy in the room? Yeah, he probably was. Right. But it wasn't really that. It's that Mike just understood, because he had built this incredible business, that the way that you succeed is you hire the most talented people you can get. And he didn't care about politics. He didn't really even care that much about diversity. He just wanted the most talent people can get. And then he actually let them do their jobs and come up with big ideas. And. And as a result, really great things happened. And so whichever mayor has the ability to recruit and attract that kind of talent and also be willing to hire them. Right? Like Eric Adams, you know, you have to, like, go to high school with him in order to get a top job in many ways. Or Bill de Blasio, you know, you had to, like, you know, live in Park Slope and drive a subaru and whatever, you know? So, like, if you can let all of that go and just attract and hire talent, then I think you had a decent shot at being successful.
- [17:25]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. So for Eric Adams. All right, little divergence here. First question I want you to answer is confirm he has almost no shot of winning. He's not running as a Democrat. Second question is, I think, of the Churchill quote about America. They could be relied upon to do the right thing. After they've exhausted all the possibilities, he somehow has backed into Jessica Tisch as NYPD commissioner, and she was this great sanitation commissioner, and you're asking everyone, will you keep her? How did he luck into that?
- [17:55]
Bradley Tusk
She was there, and she is truly. I only know her a little bit, but we haven't overlapped much, but is truly dedicated public servant, obviously. Her family is incredibly wealthy, so she has the ability to do anything she wants or nothing at all. And she has dedicated her life to city government and public service. And also, in a way, because she has independence and freedom, she is able to really approach the job in a way that most people who either came up through the system or are thinking about their job after being commissioner can't really do. So she has rooted out a lot of corruption. She has changed a lot of processes. She has changed the structure. Now, the commissioner directly before her caban, was horribly incompetent and corrupt. And Emma Macy hasn't been indicted yet. So the disparity there is huge. But overall, yeah, she was there, and she wanted to do it. And look, if she succeeds. And I think what's interesting, and I don't know if she quite realizes or not, but we were talking about this earlier, which is success will be both based on reality and perception. Right. So she is going to tout. Hey, look at the stats. You know, grand larceny is down. Robbery, you know, rape is down, whatever it is. And that very well may be true if the city still feels bad, it doesn't really resonate. And so even though in some ways her job is not quality of life, I think especially because she was sanitation commissioner, she should understand this. She really has to lean into both, because if she can do that, then one day, if she does run for mayor, people will remember her tenure as successful. Right now, I think they would say, if they've heard anything about her. Oh, yeah, she sounds smart. She's doing some stuff. Are you happy with New York City right now? No.
- [19:37]
Mike Pesca
Yeah.
- [19:38]
Bradley Tusk
And so she still has to overcome that.
- [19:40]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. And Adam's no chance, from what your polling shows.
- [19:44]
Bradley Tusk
No. I mean, I don't really see, you know, he is he the reelect. So one of the things that you always ask people is just voters, do you want to reelect the incumbent? Right, just. And traditionally, historically, you had to be at least 50 to get reelected. That number, like everything has fallen a bit over the past decade or so.
- [20:05]
Mike Pesca
But yeah, yeah, the baseline rule of thumb is no longer 50. We just don't have that politics anymore.
- [20:12]
Bradley Tusk
He was at 12. I've never seen a number that low. Yeah, so, no, I don't think he has any chance whatsoever. I'm not even sure he really runs. I think, look, I think his next job is something in the federal government for Donald Trump. And so if Trump tells him to run, he'll run. If Trump says, I don't give a shit, then I think he might not.
- [20:30]
Mike Pesca
Oh, that's a great state of affairs. So I want to get to the cuomo ness of it all. But first, let's talk about crime. I think that I'm one who looks at the stats and I'm one who. I know that perception is reality, but also. And perception lags reality, but reality does influence perception. And when murder spiked after Covid, for a lot of reasons, but a lot of it was policing pullback, and some of it was, you know, pent up emotion, but there really was a murder spike and that really did lead to bad feelings, and we're probably still experiencing that. But now I especially look at homicide stats. They're getting better and better, and the other stats are getting better and better. Maybe once there is a new mayor and it's not all associated with the inherently criminal Eric Adams, things will change. Is that how you think it will go?
- [21:20]
Bradley Tusk
Yes and no. So, yes, perception. There's no issue more than public safety where perception and reality intersect and shape each other. However, you know, even in our worst years, in those dinkins years, we were still at 1500 murders in a city of 8.5 million people. So basically, neither you nor anyone you're ever, ever going to meet is likely to get murdered. Right. So, yes, if murder is bad, people are aware of that and they don't like it. But the problem is, and this is where really Adams has failed so far, some of the stats are down since he took over, but they're sort of counting stats. And when you walk down the street and there's someone fucked up on fentanyl or drank and they're acting crazy, or you're on the subway platform and there's a guy with his pants down, literally pooping or whatever it is. Like, I hope you have to edit this out, but, like, I have never smelled human shit at the level that I have in the past year or two on the New York City subway platforms. Right. And it is just disgusting. Right. And so when the city feels that way, the stats don't really matter. And look, I get it. I mean, you can argue that Adams has had bad luck in the sense that, like, if you think about the 90s, Giuliani in some way benefited from the fact that the street drug of choice at the time was heroin. It went from crack, which made people nuts, nuts, to heroin, which made people very sedate. And as a result, it just made them less threatening, which kind of helped overall with what he was trying to do. Whatever the fuck fentanyl does, it really screws people up. And so you just have this world where you walk down the street or you get out on the subway and there's a decent shot that someone scary will be there. There's a pretty low chance that something's going to happen to you, but you don't feel that way. And that's the problem.
- [23:06]
Mike Pesca
Right, right, right. You're right. The west coast, all these west coast cities, that much more than New York went into drug legalization and decriminalization, they have the problem tenfold. But in a packed urban environment, just the idea of the proximity to feces and defecation, it kind of short circuits all of our other calculus.
- [23:31]
Bradley Tusk
Right. So I've done. I've been spending a lot of time in la, and I really, really like la. And I accidentally drove through skid Row and I was like, holy fuck. Because there's nothing in New York nearly as bad as that. But the rest of the time, you don't really intersect with it all that much. Right. At least in the nice neighborhoods that I tended to either be staying in or going to meetings in. And as a result, you're able to separate the things out. Whereas, because we all get around on the subway, we all get around on the streets, and it's in your face. That's part of what makes New York so amazing, is that sort of density and interaction and vitality, but when it also feels really bad, it impacts everyone. So you can't kind of segregate it in the same way.
- [24:11]
Mike Pesca
By the way, what is the actual Mamdani plan for using the subways to house the homeless? Not the cartoon version of that he wants to take.
- [24:20]
Bradley Tusk
I think this was a terrible idea. He wants to. There's a lot of empty retail Space like kiosks, right? Yeah, yeah. Or even, like, you know, if you're like Times Square, Columbus Circle, he wants to turn those into service. If I'm, you know, because I've interviewed a lot of candidates, I believe this was his idea. I. I might be now giving him credit for somebody else's idea, but I believe that it was his. And he wants to turn those spaces into service areas, which, by the way, fine. Like that. That. No problem.
- [24:53]
Mike Pesca
Wait, was the big problem that there wasn't the geography to actually give out the services.
- [24:58]
Bradley Tusk
And we need an empty shop with Mondami in general. I had this debate with my daughter yesterday, who got home from college and wants to canvas for him, is, you know, she said, well, he has all these great ideas. And I said, sure, but his ideas are just free stuff. He's like, yeah. And I said, but how's he gonna pay for it? And that was beyond her. And then. And then I said, look, in theory, every candidate could just promise free stuff to the credit of the rest of them. They're actually responsible enough to not do that. Right. So it's easy to promise free stuff. It's hard to execute on it. And the reality is, could you find the money for it? Sure. But you'd have to cut a lot of sacred cows, because the reality is he would just say, well, there's a lot of rich people in New York, so they can just pay for it. But it's not completely elastic. Right. Like, ultimately, a lot of people do move to Florida or other places. And if you have a combination of shitty quality of life, in part driven by really progressive policies around criminal justice that people like Mondame have combined with taxes that are too high, people leave. Right. And so ultimately, sure, if you were willing to say, you know, we spent $40 billion on education and we could probably find $10 billion of waste in administration, just fire lots of people. Sure. Is he willing to take on the teachers union and do that? Probably not. So I'll be impressed with someone when his views, when they're willing to show me how they can get the money, not by just sort of claiming that they're going to raise taxes and no one's ever going to bother to leave, but show me how you're going to take on sort of the sacred cows of the left and actually do it.
- [26:34]
Mike Pesca
And we'll be back in a minute with more of Bradley Tusk. Foreign. We're back with Bradley Tusk, venture capitalist, philanthropist, writer, political strategist. So we've been talking about the candidates in the field. Let's talk about the guy who's polling number two. Clearly, number two. A very distant number two, Zoran Mamdani. Is he viable? Is he Vibesy? Is he exciting? What's your take?
- [27:08]
Bradley Tusk
He was super dynamic and likable and talented. Like, you know, just in terms of, like, if you said to me, who's the best political athlete that we've interviewed so far? It's definitely Mondami, right? Like, not. Not even close. You know, Cuomo, obviously, you can't get a lot of statewide that many times and not be good. So we'll see. He. Maybe he. He outshines him, but overall, you know, Mandami's not only in second. Look, if, if you want, I can paint a somewhat compelling argument for how Cuomo loses, although I don it. But the thing for Mondami is really, would he run in the general on the Working Families Party line, of which he doesn't really have a chance of getting much more than call it 17 to 20%, most likely. But if you're him, and it's a way to just kind of keep raising awareness. Because, look, if AOC primary, Schumer in 28 or runs for president or something else, he is a very good potential candidate to take her congressional seat.
- [28:05]
Mike Pesca
Yeah. So you're saying that he, if he has a path to the mayorality, it is not through.
- [28:13]
Bradley Tusk
No, I don't think he has. I'm just saying I think that politically for. I'll paint you the one where I guess he could have it. But ultimately, what I'm saying is that if the likely scenario is that he comes in second, he could still choose to run in the general election on the Working Families Party line if they give it to him. And he wouldn't win the general election either, but he can keep his name out there for a few more months and kind of keep impressing people like my daughter and just kind of keep paving the way for a future run for something. The way he would lose would be some combination of, like. And maybe this gets us into the Cuomo part of it. But, like, fundamentally, there's really one threshold question when you look at the polling that matters, which is so Right now, roughly 40% of respondents say Cuomo. Right. And by the way, the ranked choice system like that, even because he's got second place for a bunch more people.
- [29:04]
Mike Pesca
Oh, you're saying he's people's strong second choice and people's strong first choice.
- [29:08]
Bradley Tusk
Some people's second choice and a lot of people's first choice. And some people hate him. Right? There's all kinds of possibilities. But if you believe, as sort of the other candidates insist, that the people saying Cuomo right now have forgotten about the nursing home scandal, forgotten about the sexual harassment scandal, forgotten about all of his negatives, and once they're reminded of it in paid media, they will change their mind, then potentially we got a real race here. If you believe that it's all baked in and they're aware of all of it, but their view is, fuck it, yeah, he might be an asshole, but he's our asshole. And in a time where the city feels really bad and in a time of Trump, although it's sort of a fiction that the idea that the mayor is needed to balance out Trump one way or another, but putting that aside, but in that situation, it's fine that he's like that, because that's actually what we need. I believe that's the reality of it, which is that people are fully aware of him, good and bad, and it's all baked in. But if it's not, then if you combine that with, let's say the Working Families Party convinced Lander and Adrian Adams and Stringer and everyone else to basically throw their support to Mondami, and all of the money spent was basically negative on Cuomo with the exception of Mondami running his own positive, then maybe, and Cuomo commits some more unforced errors, and maybe the New York Times reverses its policy at the last minute and does an endorsement and it's Mandami. You know, maybe all of those things combined could somehow do something. But, you know, those are a lot of different, you know, permutations now.
- [30:42]
Mike Pesca
So here is my thought. With Cuomo, we could talk politics and we could talk policy. I get the feeling, I hate to say it's just a feeling, it's ineffable that were he to be elected, were he to win, it would be the strangest thing, because this is a guy in absolute need of a comeback. He was laid low and he had hit a nadir. And usually, or actually every single other time, there are different ways to do it. But you either ask the public's forgiveness or the public at least is considers all that you've done wrong. Some accept, some don't. Maybe you've reframed things, but there is an active engagement in terms of acknowledging all that was done wrong. And then there are different paths forward for different voters to forgive. Forget whatever. You take Trump, you take Jerry Brown, you take Richard Nixon. We could talk about people on the local level. This is how it's done. There is a reckoning. And in this race, none of that is going on. As far as I could tell. Cuomo is back and he's like, hey, remember me? Was I really that bad? But he's not even saying that. He's just number one in the polls. Am I misapprehending what's happening?
- [31:59]
Bradley Tusk
No, you're not. I think that the variable that you didn't include in your analysis is there are periods where the, the situation, specifically the context or zeitgeist, whatever you want to call it, is so specific that it allows for an exception to what you're talking about. Right. So where city government, I've worked in city government, state government, federal government, and the distinction is massive in that city government is the most tangible binary type of government by far. And people kind of expect things to be run well enough that they feel safe, that they feel like it's clean, that they feel like the schools are good enough to send their kids to and all of that. And when they don't feel that way, they're really willing to overlook a tremendous amount. Right. And think about, forget about Cuomo, specific flaws. Giuliani in 93 and then re elected 97. Bloomberg in 01, 05 and 09 Republicans in a city that has 7 or 8 to 1 registration advantage for Democrats. When the city felt because of super high crime and murders and everything else in 93 or 9, 11 in 2001 really dangerous people are like, fuck it, I don't care. I'm voting for this guy because it seems like he'll actually keep us safe or he knows what to do. And so I just think the combination of city government is different and the specific context where everything just feels really bad is different. And because Cuomo is seen as someone Trumpian, that is playing to his benefit. Now again, like I said, there really aren't in reality that many times where the mayor of New York City is directly pitted against the president, where it's a fair fight anywhere, like the mayor's ability to, to push back matters, but the perception is that it matters. And all of the candidates keep talking about Trump, so therefore they've made it matter. And Cuomo sort of lines up the best. I'll give you another example. So my brother in law is running for governor of New Jersey. Their primary is on June 10. His name is Josh Gottheimer and Josh is the true moderate and centrist in the race. He created this thing called the problem solvers caucus in the House, which is one of the only real bipartisan groups left. He helped get infrastructure done. He helped get a policing bill done. He's done actually a really good job considering the state of the government that we have. And his plan for the campaign was to talk mainly about sort of taxes and the economy and kind of contrast himself with the far left candidates. And he's doing some of that. But a lot of his ads now, if you've seen, like the boxing one, for example, are all about Trump, simply because that's where the zeitgeist of the race is. That's where everyone's attention is, and you just had to engage.
- [34:35]
Mike Pesca
So another interesting thing about Cuomo is that he has two scandals, one the sexual harassment scandal and one the nursing home scandal. They cut. They have different political valences in terms of who would be most, who would object to them most. The right conservatives, which are very few in the city, look at the nursing home scandal and they, and they find it horrible. But they also might look at the sexual harassment scandal and find him just to be a victim of the overly woke. I don't know how much that plays into the idea, you know, that we saw a lot with Trump where you would see the meme of Mr. Burns and all the different maladies inside him fighting each other, thus making Mr. Burns a healthy figure. So that's one thing to think about. But the other thing is, and I'll just ask you, how big a scandal should the nursing home scandal have been?
- [35:31]
Bradley Tusk
You know, it's hard to say, right? Because on one hand, I think the scandal, to me, if there is one, is much less around the decision that he made, because, look, we were in a global pandemic. Nobody really understood what we were dealing with at the time. And I think in large part he doesn't want to say this right now, but the decision they made, which isn't crazy, is, is people who are really old should not be prioritized for hospital beds over people who are younger. And we have limited amount of capacity. We don't know what this thing is. And so we should try to keep the older people where they are in the nursing homes and treat them there and reserve the hospital beds for people who are younger. Obviously, if that's your grandmother or your mom or it's you, you don't want to hear that. That policy in and of itself is not crazy at all. I think where they got into trouble was this notion that they really covered it up and try. And as there were a lot of deaths in nursing homes because you combine people who are already old and sick with a pandemic that spreads virally and quickly, that a lot of people are going to get it and they're going to die from it. So I think in the COVID up of that is really, if there's a scandal where they managed to create it, had they just been honest about the stats and not tried to make it seem otherwise. I'm not really sure there is a scandal. There's a policy decision that you could agree or disagree with.
- [36:49]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, that's probably true. So is it the truism that it's the COVID up, not the crime, or is it more?
- [36:55]
Bradley Tusk
I think so, but I also.
- [36:56]
Mike Pesca
But then again, you could look at that and say, well, that's a process violation, not some moral.
- [37:00]
Bradley Tusk
Yeah, I don't see this. I mean, look, maybe if he ran for governor again, this would be a bigger issue. But I just, you know, when, when I talk to real people and they tell me what they like or don't like about him, no one has ever brought up the nursing home scandal. The next one you're gonna ask about the sexual harassment stuff. Very much so.
- [37:18]
Mike Pesca
Right.
- [37:18]
Bradley Tusk
So. And I know a lot of women who are absolutely just not going to vote for Andrew Cuomo no matter what simply because of that. And I totally get that. So. But the nursing home thing is one of these things that, like, I don't think it's a real issue in terms of being an electoral issue. In six weeks.
- [37:35]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, there are two parts of the sexual. I mean, 11 accusers or 12 accusers, however you count them, many of those accusers, when you read, and I've read actually all the transcripts, they don't amount to much. I'm not being dismissive, but it could be the interpretation of how eager Cuomo was to have someone from Rochester come to his unofficial event because she was, you know, a pretty woman. There was not even any touching in many cases. Or there was. I reflected on it years later and I realized that this behavior was inappropriate or a hand on the back. So you could actually, if you go one by one, throw out a bunch of them as, okay, probably not the best way to act. Certainly not the best way to act, but fireable. Then you have a couple that I think will never know the truth of an aid up against the wall and a groping or touching of state troopers in really lascivious ways that I don't know if they disqualify you for mayor. I guess they don't. If he had they don't for president. Right. That's true. I don't know if they disqualify you in the minds of most voters if you really look at them one by one, as opposed to just getting this general overall icky feeling. But my question is, does Cuomo actually have to address that or is it more? I think some people will never get over that. I think some of it is bullshit and I think some of it is I have a good case to make despite this.
- [39:02]
Bradley Tusk
Yeah, like I said, if you're explaining you're on defense, you're losing. Right. Like there's no friends about to go through one by one and sort of dispute all of it. Like, that's already a disaster. And look, that's why he's running a real Rose Garden campaign, because one, his name recognition outweighs everyone else. Two, the zeitgeist of the moment fits his sort of skill set and the way he's perceived perfectly. Three, there's so much shit happening in the world right now and Trump just dominates everything. And the Pope and there's so much else that just no one's paying attention to mayoral race at all. But also, like, he doesn't want to put himself in a position where he has to to be explaining all of this. And so the reality is he's better off mainly not going to community forums and most debates and most podcasts and things like that.
- [39:47]
Mike Pesca
Does the public lose?
- [39:50]
Bradley Tusk
The public loses when ultimately they don't have access to the candidates. But keep in mind, the public loses here because let's assume he wins or whoever wins, right? They're going to get between 250 and 300,000 votes in the primary. Do you know percentage, that is, of the city's population as a whole?
- [40:06]
Mike Pesca
This is the worst.
- [40:07]
Bradley Tusk
About three. Yeah, three to four. Right. So that's why we lose because so few people actually participate in the decision making process. Do you know what turnout is was in the last New York City Council primaries?
- [40:19]
Mike Pesca
Yeah, it's 8%. Was that it?
- [40:20]
Bradley Tusk
7.2. So you could win a council seat with 8,000 votes. We are the most successful city, biggest city in America, maybe in the world. And with 8,000 votes, you could want to cancel seat. Right. So ultimately the real crime here is that so few people participate that you get a mayor who frequently is totally on a line with the values of the city as a whole. And as you've heard me talk about a million times before, the only way to solve this is to radically increase participation and turnout. And the only way to do that is to meet the voters where they are. And every one of us pretty much has a phone in our pocket. It's become a utility, not a luxury. And through my foundation, we have built technology that is secure. And I can walk you through how it works that allows people to vote on their phones, that we are making open source and giving away to any government in the world that wants to use it. And ultimately, if we want more people participating in local elections and local primaries, in order to reduce extremism and in order to make our candidates more reflective and responsive to the needs of the public as a whole, you've got to make voting a lot easier. And that's what mobile voting does.
- [41:27]
Mike Pesca
Let me ask you this question about Cuomo. In your assessment, the idea about him that you have to have sharp elbows and you have to be a little bit of a bully to get. Get things done. He likes that. It applies to him. How true is it? How much of an effective.
- [41:40]
Bradley Tusk
True for sure, for being mayor, no question about it, right? It's not true in the notion of you needed to stand up to Trump. Like, there's just not that much real direct interaction in that way. But look, you have all of these institutions that benefit from the status quo. And if you want to make the schools better, you have to directly take on the U of T, the teachers you union, right? And if you want to be able to make healthcare more accessible, you probably have to take on seiu, although they're endorsing him, so I don't think he'll do that. Or if you want to be able to sort of make the city safer and cleaner, you have to take on the far left, right? So 327 people commit about a third of the shoplifting in New York City. And the reason why they just keep doing it is the people who we elect as judges, because so, like, we're like 4% turnout for judges are the most left wing of the left wing who don't believe in law enforcement or incarceration or anything like that. And that's who they elect. So whether those people believe that too, or they just know they need to maintain that position to get reelected, they just won't jail people no matter how much they're shoplifting. And the problem is it's not a victimless crime for two reasons. One is really hurt storage. I would say the only good news about owning a bookstore is nobody steals books but everyone else. And the sad thing is when you go into CVS and you want toothpaste and you Got to press a button and wait for some guy to come and lock the case. You know what I do instead? And most people I know, they order on Amazon, right? And so you're ultimately contributing to the entire sort of, you know, just destruction of the whole retail economy and storefront economy of empty storefronts and vacant places. And then that leads to more quality of life problems and more crime and more drugs, drug abuse and everything else. And so there's, you know, significant negative externalities in not enforcing the laws around shoplifting. But if Andrew Cuomo tries to make that a really big issue, the far left is going to call him racist and fascist and all these other things. And you need to have the balls to stand that down.
- [43:44]
Mike Pesca
By the way, psychologically, the bookstore consumer, are they really buying books or are they buying the social signifier that I am the kind of person who would own this book?
- [43:54]
Bradley Tusk
Well, first of all, not many of them are buying anything, at least for my book.
- [43:57]
Mike Pesca
They're buying muffins. And you have excellent bakery.
- [43:59]
Bradley Tusk
Yeah, kind of. Look, I think that there are people who really love books and love to read paper books as opposed to Kindle. I think there are some people who probably like the status of sort of supporting a local indie bookstore. And so look, once in a very blue moon, I will see someone carrying like a PNT Knitwear, the same of our bookstore tote bag, wearing a T shirt. And I laugh because I'm very appreciative of their support. But I think about. So the reason the store has this funny name, as you know, is, well, my family. After World War II, my family survived the Holocaust. And then they were living in the refugee camps in Germany for about five years. And then finally a cousin sponsored them. This was my dad and my grandparents, and they came to the US and my grandfather and another guy he Knew from the DP camp, Displaced Person Camp, opened up a 300 square foot sweater store on Allen street called PNT Knitwear. And my store is on Orchard between Houston and Stanton. And when I signed my lease, I texted my dad and said, hey, wasn't that original store right around here? And he told me the address. I'm like, oh, it's the next block over. And then I said, remind me the name. And he wrote back, P and T Knitwear, but you cannot name a bookstore P and T Knitwear. So the minute my dad told me I couldn't do it, of course that was the name. And so the idea that my grandfather coming over, you know, on a ship where they literally remember, like seeing the Statue of Liberty and all of that and, you know, having the true immigrant experience that people would then be spending money to advertise the name of the place as a way to show that they, you know, are virtuous in some way. I think would have tickled him to no end.
- [45:32]
Mike Pesca
All right, I do want to ask you one or two bonus questions about abundance because it's in the air and it's exactly in your wheelhouse. But first, let me thank you of the official part of the interview. Bradley Tusk is CEO and co founder of Tusk Venture Partners, the author of such books as the Fixer and Obvious In Hindsight, that's the Flying Car Book and PNT Knitwear. You could see him most days trying to get you trying to hawk his wares.
- [45:56]
Bradley Tusk
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's the best thing I can do for the bookstore is not focus at all on the business of the bookstore and just make money doing other stuff.
- [46:04]
Mike Pesca
Also, listen to his Firewall podcast. Thanks, Bradley.
- [46:07]
Bradley Tusk
Thanks, Mike.
- [46:13]
Mike Pesca
And that's it for today's show that just was produced by Cory Wara. The CBSO is Michelle Pesca. The co CBSO is Ashley Khan. Astrid Green runs our socials. Leo Baum does our interning improve. G Peru de Peru. Thanks for listening. The gist is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.