Andy McCarthy (3:36)

You're listening to the Best of the Glenn Beck Program.

Glenn Beck (3:40)

Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program. I'm on my way to Phoenix for the rest of the week. I will be at TP USA tomorrow filling in for Charlie Kirk. And I am honored to I have to tell you, boy, I don't know what it's going to feel like to sit in his chair, but we'll do that tomorrow. Listen, I want to talk to you about a friend of mine. I have a very dear friend. She's mom. She has some older kids. Later in life she had a surprise and it was a joyful surprise. So she still has one young son at home. I remember she told me years ago when her son was 4, he, he was getting ready for bed one night and she pulled his pajamas on over his head and she took her face in his hands and she said, I just love you so much. And her son reached out, grabbed her face and said, mom, someday I'm going to have to fight a great battle and you are not getting me ready for it. Now when she told me this, I said, what are you telling your 4 year old?

Glenn Beck (interjecting) (4:59)

You're like, by the way, Jesus is.

Glenn Beck (5:01)

Coming and there's going to be a.

Glenn Beck (interjecting) (5:03)

Great battle and the devil's going to get you.

Glenn Beck (5:05)

You know, I'm like, what are you telling your kid? She's like, glenn, we have never had A conversation about any of that? Never. She's like, he's four. Why would I be saying anything like that? And she was just. Her and her husband were like, what? What is happening? And he was dead set. There is a great battle coming, and I have to fight it, and you're not preparing me for it. Now. He's 11. She called me after the shooting with. With Charlie, and she told me that the shooting reminded her of that moment with her son. And then she said something so tragic, because I know this woman. I just. I love her to death. And I know. I know her heart, and I know the way she's raising her kids. And she said to me, I don't think I have been raising him, Glenn, even knowing that I'm supposed to. I don't know if I've done enough to prepare him for what's coming next, to get ready him, to get ready for what he has to do in his life. We all go through this one way or another as our kids, my kids, my two younger kids moved out of the house this year. And I'm terrified. I'm terrified because Tanya and I both say we didn't do enough. We didn't do enough. And I got to believe our heavenly Father might have had a moment of that as he's sending us through the, you know, through the veil and through the birth canal, going, did I do enough to make sure?

Glenn Beck (continuing) (6:58)

I mean.

Glenn Beck (7:04)

The work we have to do is the work of uniting all of us. This generation. I'm absolutely convinced this generation is the generation that has been sent here at this time for a reason. And I think I know what that reason is. But I could be wrong. I don't know, but I know it and I've seen it. I've had two gatherings of youth at my house in the last 10 days. I had about 70 people over at my house last Sunday, and I think I had about 50 people over the Tuesday before Charlie was. Was shot. And I sat there and I. I taught them civics and history of our country. And I. I showed them artifacts and tried to engage with them to get. To get them to see the things that I see that they have never been taught. And I saw it in their eyes. They are engaged. And many of them know tough times are coming. And while they don't want to talk about it per se, they know. They know they're going to be the ones that are going to fix this and change this and take all of this on. I see it in the faces of my own children, my friend sees it in the face of her 4 year old, who's now 11. And I think you see it too, the God given potential of the generations that are behind us that are now coming up. William Wordsworth, the poet, said that birth is not the beginning of our existence. Quote, trailing clouds of glory do we come from God, who is our home. Each child comes to us with this divine light inside, an infinite potential. And if you've had more than one kid, you know it's not just nurture because all, all four of my kids are wildly different. As the kids raised the flag here at my ranch on Sunday, I looked around at them and I wished I could show them what I saw in them. The potential that all of them. I wish I could. I wish I could share with the youth just the glimpse of what I see. I wish I could send them a YouTube or Instagram or TikTok video of who they really are. You know, a video of how I really see them, how God sees them. But I think that is our mission and we have to understand. Can you imagine what the parents of the shooter feel like today? Hush. If you live in their community, I hope you let them know they're not alone. I mean, not, not, not to excuse the shooter or anything else, but my gosh, I've raised 14 teenagers now and it is not easy. And all of us, all of us, we all know you got a wayward kid. And in today's world, it's even worse because there are predators out there waiting to take your kid. Our job, I used to think it was to save America, but our job is actually bigger than that. Our job is to lead the next generation to their work and not tell them exactly how to do it because I don't know how to do it. Do you? If I knew how to do it, I think we'd be doing it. I think too many of us think they're not capable and we're treating our kids like kids. Stop it. They're not kids at 26. I don't think they're kids at 16. Things have changed. Childhood has changed. Stop treating them like children. I mean, I, I'm, I know I'm like you. I, I get frustrated that our, that our kids, you know, they, they're not.

Glenn Beck (interjecting) (11:39)

Like we used to be. They didn't have.

Glenn Beck (11:41)

You know who used to say that too? The greatest generation. Their parents used to say that too.

Glenn Beck (interjecting) (11:48)

They didn't have to work hard for a living. They don't know what it's like without these fake li. This is literally what they said, without these fancy cars and refrigeration, they don't know what it was like to get a block of ice out of the lake and bring it to keep your food cold. They're never going to be able to fight anything. They're weak.

Glenn Beck (12:09)

They were the greatest generation. We got to stop calling these guys lazy and lost, because they're not. They may be lost, but just as lost as you and I are, I got to tell you, I'm lost. I fight every single day with something. There's something in my head. Oh, man. Pray for me, please. I've got so many things. I got this tangled knot in my head right now, and I haven't had this. Honestly. I had the opportunity to baptize my niece on Saturday, and her husband and I stood in the waters, and I'm like, lord, can. Can we just start over with me, too? Can I just. You know, I know I'm not going under the water, I baptize somebody, but can we just start all over? Because I got this tangled knot in me, and I've got so many things, what I did, what I didn't do. And I got to get rid of it all. Take it from me. Please take it. They're lost, but let's admit it, so are we. And I know the answer for me. We just have to put our hand out to bring them. To bring them with us and ask them to bring us with them as they fight for freedom. Bible says. And about the 11th hour, he went out and found the other standing idle and saith unto them, why stand ye here all the day idle? They said unto him, because no man has hired us. We have left them idle because we've made the decision that they're not as capable as we are. Have you ever worked for somebody like that? Nah, I'll just do it myself. You don't get anywhere with that kind of person. They weren't sent here to be like us. That's the point again. If we could have fixed it, we would have fixed it. They weren't sent here to be like us. They were sent here to be the battalion that God needs them to be for this time and for this moment. Let's stop trying to shape them in our image. It's our call to help them see who they are and to grow into the image that God has intended for them. I would love for my. I'd love for my son or daughter to be like me. You know, like the things I like, because we'd have such an easy time on things and, you know, do the things that I want you to do. That's not the way it is. It's not the way it's supposed to be. It's our call to help them. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds and. And from one end of heaven to the other. I think Charlie was one of those angels. I do. He saw. He saw the potential in the youth. Even though the culture was saying they were addicted to screens and they're apathetic and they don't.

Glenn Beck (interjecting) (15:21)

They don't know what it's like to go drag the ice out of the lake.

Glenn Beck (15:26)

Charlie was gathering the elect so they could bring together all of God's children from the four corners of the earth. Now it's our turn. We are the angels, and they are the elect. Charlie saw that. Charlie lived that. And it's time for people of my age to live that, too. Mom, dad, someday I'm going to have to fight a great battle. Please get me ready for it. If you're carrying a credit card balance right now, you're probably paying about 20% interest or more. Think about that for a second. While you are struggling to make ends meet, the banks are getting rich off your interest payments. You make a payment and the balance barely moves because you're spending everything in interest, right? It's like trying to bail out a boat with a Dixie cup. It's not going to happen. You don't have to keep playing this same game. American Financing can help you consolidate that high interest debt into a lower monthly payment. And sometimes just by using the equity in the home that you've already built up. They're not a bank. They work for you. And they have salary mortgage consultants that walk you through the options that actually make sense for your life, not for their life. No junk fees, no pressure. Just honest, practical help from people who know the system and know how to help escape all of the pitfalls in it. It's not about taking on more debt. It's about restructuring the debt you already have so you can breathe again. Call American Financing at 8009-0624-4080-0906-2440. It's American Financing.net Go there now. Now back to the podcast. You're listening to the Best of the Glenn Beck Program. May I compliment somebody on the left that does not agree with a word I say? And I know because I know this individual, Jamie Lee Curtis. Jamie Lee Curtis came out and made a Statement about Charlie Kirk, and I want you to hear it.

Jamie Lee Curtis (17:33)

Charlie Crist was killed two days ago.

Andy McCarthy (17:36)

Yeah, Charlie.

Jamie Lee Curtis (17:37)

I'm sorry.

Andy McCarthy (17:38)

Kirk.

Jamie Lee Curtis (17:39)

Kirk. I just call him Christ, I think, because of Christ, because of. Because of his deep, deep belief. I mean, I disagreed with him on almost every point I ever heard him say.

Andy McCarthy (17:54)

Yeah.

Jamie Lee Curtis (17:56)

But I believe he was a man of faith. And I hope in that moment when he died that he felt connected to his faith, even though I find what he. His ideas were abhorrent to me.

Andy McCarthy (18:10)

Yeah.

Jamie Lee Curtis (18:12)

I still believe he's a father and a husband and a man of faith. And I. I hope whatever connection to God means that he felt it. Yesterday was 9 11. I know there is video of his assassination. I've know people who've seen it. Yesterday we watched, again, these images of those buildings coming down. We as a society are bombarded with imagery, so we don't know what the longitudinal effects of seeing those towers come down over and over and over and over again or watching his execution.

Glenn Beck (19:06)

Over.

Jamie Lee Curtis (19:06)

And over and over again. We watched the Zapruder film, by the way, my birthday, November 22nd. I'm associated with this awful day of someone being assassinated on television. But it's. As you know, this Bruder film is the only visual document that moves, that shares that horror of what happened. But here we have now these images.

Glenn Beck (19:37)

All the time, every day, and we.

Jamie Lee Curtis (19:39)

Are inured to them and we are numb to them, but they are in there. We don't know. We don't know enough psychologically about what that does. What does that do? That kind of. I don't ever want to see this footage of this man being shot.

Glenn Beck (19:57)

I didn't watch it. I think it diminishes the depth of humanity. Now, I would like to point out that she's making a very good point of what this does to you psychologically. She is also, you know, making, you know, the Halloween movie. The Halloween movies as well. And I. I would like to just point out. And this is not a critique on her, because I love. I love her. I love what she just said. Okay? She strongly disagrees with him, but she handled it perfectly. But I, you know, I'm. I would like people who make movies to ask themselves, okay, but are we also cheapening death and life by the. By the movies we make? Because I think the answer to that is yes. I don't know by how much you know, but I. It has to. You put garbage in, you get garbage out. But. But again, she handled that perfectly. And I don't know how if she's getting hate or anything else. I know it's talked about this yesterday that Kristin Chenoweth, a big Broadway star, did the same thing, and she is being blackballed now by her own industry. For what? For standing up and saying, this guy shouldn't have been shot. I mean, it just shows the depth of. Of. Of darkness that is living in our society, and it's just. It just has to stop. So thank you, Jamie Lee Curtis, for handling this the right way. And, you know, it's funny because I. I met Jamie Lee Curtis. She was on my show years ago, and. Oh, my gosh, you found a picture. Oof. If you're watching the Blaze. Wow. Is that even me?

Andy McCarthy (21:55)

Wow.

Glenn Beck (21:55)

But she looks great then.

Glenn Beck (continuing) (21:58)

And now, weirdly, I know she can't say the same.

Glenn Beck (22:01)

No, thank you. But she was on my show at that time. And I'll never forget, you remember, I spent an hour with her, and at the first, she was sitting in her chair and she was just pushed back and she had her arms crossed or across her chest. And I said to her at one point, I said, are you okay? And she said, you scare me. And I said, how? What do you mean? And she said, you scare me. I watch your show and sometimes you say things that scare me. And so we talked about it, and that picture was taken after. And look at her. I mean, she's next to me. She's got her. Her head on my shoulder, her arm around my arm. And I thought we had become not friends, but friendly to one another because. And we still disagreed with each other. We still disagreed with each other, but she was a reasonable human being, and obviously she is still a reasonable human being that I. I disagree with almost everything she says, and I'm sure she says the same thing about me. But thank you, Jamie Lee Curtis, for being a decent human being. Thank you for that. Now, I wish that could happen to. To everybody who steps out of line. And I mean that on both sides. Not on this issue, but, you know, sometimes, you know, you step out of line. Who are you to say that? Now, let me take you to New York. A decision has just been made and one I absolutely, positively do not understand. And we're going to get. We need to get Andrew McCarthy or somebody on Today or Tomorrow to. To help me out with this one. But the killer of the United Healthcare CEO, let's remember who he is. He went to New York with a gun with the intention of killing that guy. Stu. I know we have laws. When you have. When you have a plan to murder Someone and it's a well thought out plan, and then you do murder them. What is that called?

Glenn Beck (continuing) (24:06)

We usually call it first degree murder.

Glenn Beck (24:09)

First degree murder. Why?

Glenn Beck (continuing) (24:12)

What is premeditation with first?

Glenn Beck (24:14)

Yeah, premeditation. Okay, premeditation. Did he have premeditation?

Glenn Beck (continuing) (24:21)

Absolutely. Without question?

Glenn Beck (24:23)

Without. Without question. Without question. Have you heard any piece of evidence that would make you say, well, that is kind of questionable?

Glenn Beck (continuing) (24:32)

No, not at all.

Glenn Beck (24:34)

Not at all. The New York. Is it the Supreme Court? The New York Supreme Court.

Glenn Beck (continuing) (24:38)

New York Supreme Court Justice Gregory Caro is his name. He said the evidence presented to the grand jury does not support charges of murder in the first and second degrees under the state's terrorism statute. Now, when I first read that, and this is why Andy McCarthy would be perfect on this, because he actually operated in this world constantly. But like, you know, a terrorism statute, there are certain things, and we've seen this in previous cases in New York where the normal way we use a term is not the way the law is exactly written. And so to me, this is absolute, crystal clear terrorism. This is what he was trying to do. He was trying to create a sense in his own words, basically, about how he wanted these executives to walk around constantly turning their heads, wondering if whether they're going to get shot or not.

Andy McCarthy (25:30)

Right.

Glenn Beck (continuing) (25:30)

Like this is.

Glenn Beck (25:31)

Is that is the textbook definition of terrorism. By the way, Andy McCarthy just confirmed. He'll be with us in 45 minutes.

Glenn Beck (continuing) (25:39)

Oh, perfect.

Glenn Beck (25:39)

Okay.

Andy McCarthy (25:40)

He'll, he'll.

Glenn Beck (25:40)

So we're going to get. Yeah, he'll explain this. We're going to get the answer on this one. But that is the textbook definition of terrorism. Murder in the first degree. The textbook definition is, I've got a plan, I'm going to go kill this guy. I'm bringing a gun, I'm driving through the tunnels, I'm going in, I'm parking car, I'm waiting for him outside of his hotel to come in or come out so I can shoot him. That's the definition of premeditated murder.

Glenn Beck (continuing) (26:08)

And the Charlie Kirk situation would be the same type of thing.

Andy McCarthy (26:11)

Right?

Glenn Beck (continuing) (26:11)

Like both terrorism and premeditated first degree murder. I mean, it is as exactly right now, again, not being an attorney in New York, it's possible that that terrorism situation has some distinct characteristic that makes this not qualify.

Glenn Beck (26:27)

We'll know that from angry terrorism and just try him for first degree murder.

Glenn Beck (continuing) (26:31)

This is what they say. I mean, this murderer, which I'm not gonna say his name for many reasons, will still face trial on murder in the second degree and other Related counts. But he no longer. Glenn faces the possibility of life in prison without parole.

Glenn Beck (26:48)

Let me just tell you something, New York. You keep going down this road, you're gonna elect Mamdani and you're gonna have free buses which are gonna be basically mobile homes for the homeless. You're gonna have crime that is absolutely out of control. Your. Your industries in New York City are absolutely going to collapse. You keep passing these laws, you keep doing these things with these Democrats that are far leftist in your state, you are going to get the future you so richly deserve. Now when I say that, I just want to put a caveat. When I say richly deserve, do not confuse that with being rich. Because there won't be any businesses that will want to in New York State or New York City. So don't confuse the future that you so richly deserve with actually being rich. You will be poor, you will be destitute, you will be living in an absolute hell hole you cannot look at. I mean, the choices between left and right, good and evil, have never been more clear in my life, in my lifetime. They've never been as clear as they are this week. Just this week. Are you celebrating the death of somebody? Are you excusing the death of somebody? Okay, nobody excused. I mean, well, I'm sure there were people that excused the death of Martin Luther King, but is it anybody you'd want to be associated with? Was there anybody that was excusing the death of JFK or rfk? Sure there were. Is it anybody you would want to be associated with? Why are you doing it today? Why are you doing it today? You should be crystal clear on that. Crystal clear. And so much of America is not crystal clear on that when it comes to policing our own streets. You can disagree with what the President is doing. Well, you actually can't because he did it legally in D.C. and he's doing it now in Memphis because he was invited in by the Governor. Exactly the way the Constitution calls. You could have argued with him if he would have gone into Chicago, and I would have been on your side making a case both ways, but probably leaning more towards your way. I'd have to see how he did it. But he can't just bring in troops without very specific things. So he didn't do that. But how are you arguing against policing your own streets? How are you arguing against this guy not being tried for first degree murder like Stu said? I don't know the terrorism part, we'll find out about that. But what kind of loophole is that? That's insane. If you don't start punishing people, if you don't start holding people accountable, it's only going to get much worse. And that is simple common sense. This is the best of the Glenn Beck program. We have a good friend, Annie McCarthy, who is a National Review contributing editor. He's also a former chief assistant U.S. attorney and a guy who, when he speaks, I almost always agree with him. And when I don't, I'm probably wrong, especially when it comes to things like this, because he, this is his expertise. He was a former chief assistant U.S. attorney and he worked on terror most of his career. I mean, he is, he is well versed on terror charges and how to try them. This, this Luigi Mangione case, the terrorism charges have been dropped. And, and Andy, if I remember right, came out with an article, I think of last year and said, this is not going to stand. These terrorism charges aren't going to stand. And I don't understand why they won't. And I also don't understand how he's now only gonna be charged with second degree murder when it was clear he was stalking the guy. He was. I mean, he planned on killing him. He was waiting for him outside. I mean, that's premeditation, which is murder one. But I know Andy will have all the answers for us. Can you make sense of this for us, Andy?

Andy McCarthy (31:06)

Yeah, I'm afraid I can, Glenn. I think to start with the second point first, about why it's murder two rather than murder one. Back in the pataky days, which is like the 1990s in New York when he was governor, they tried to revise the New York capitol murder statute they wanted because they haven't done a death penalty case in New York in decades. And this was not, this ultimately was not a successful effort. They still haven't revived the death penalty. But what they did was they took the things that you could get the death penalty for, which in New York were only things like killing a police officer or killing a prison guard in the prison. And they made those the only murder in the first degree varieties of homicide and all other murder. Well, because they were trying to clean up. Their idea was they were trying to clean the statute in a way that murder one would be revived as capital murder, death penalty, and all right, and all other murder was going to be second degree murder. So because what we're dealing with, with, with Mangione under New York law would not have qualified for the death penalty could, because that would have been very, very narrow. And it's Mainly killing police officers or prison guards. That puts it into the category of second degree murder. That doesn't mean, by the way, that it's unserious. It. It has a. I think the offense in New York is like 25 years to life. So it's. It's for.

Glenn Beck (32:47)

Guy should. I mean, you can. You can argue against the death penalty, but the guy should get either the death penalty or life without parole, not 25 years. This guy is.

Andy McCarthy (32:58)

That's what he's looking for.

Glenn Beck (32:59)

Help me out on this one. How is he not a terrorist? He had the intent to terrorize. He said himself he wanted people to look over their shoulders. I mean, he is a textbook terrorist. And premeditation. Textbook.

Andy McCarthy (33:15)

Yeah. To prove terrorism, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt an intent to intimidate or coerce a civilian population. And you have to sort of get out of the mindset that murder is terrorizing. I mean, all murder is terrorizing to the people who are obviously involved in it, and to the extent that it intimidates people. But we can't turn every murder into terrorism.

Glenn Beck (33:43)

Correct.

Andy McCarthy (33:44)

Terrorism is about.

Glenn Beck (33:47)

But isn't terrorism about trying to scare the population to either vote different or change the laws, to be so terrorized that they. In this particular case, he was trying to send a message to the. The industry, you better watch your back, because there's more of me, and you'll get it in the end. That's terrorizing a group of people to get them to act in a way the terrorist wants them to act.

Andy McCarthy (34:14)

Yes, but it's not terrorizing.

Glenn Beck (34:15)

Is that how we define it?

Andy McCarthy (34:17)

It's not terrorizing the government to change policy or terrorizing the whole civilian population. What the judge said is this was very narrowly targeted at the healthcare industry and this particular healthcare executive. And I guess I just don't think it trivializes the murder to say that it's not a terrorism crime.

Glenn Beck (34:44)

Okay.

Andy McCarthy (34:45)

You know, the federal government. Glenn, just so you. Just. So we're. We're clear on this part of it, there were two charges brought here. There's the federal charges and the state charges. So Alvin Bragg, the New York DA Brought the terrorism charge. I said at the time I thought he was bringing it because he knew the Justice Department wanted to charge this guy, so he wanted to make a splash, like the Justice Department wanted to make a splash. The Justice Department, when the Justice Department indicted it, even though Biden is against the death penalty and the Democratic administration was against the death penalty, they indicted it as a death penalty case because they wanted to make a big to do over it. Even though, you know, if you look at the fine print, they would never impose the death penalty. They had a moratorium on the death penalty. So in order not to be outsplashed, what Bragg charged around and did was indict this what he would like 10 times out of 10, indict only as a murder case. If you could get Bragg to indict something that was actually a crime. And he decided, he decided to make it a terrorism murder case so that, you know, they could compete for the headlines in the press. Unfortunately, this is kind of what happens in these, in these turf battle cases. But to your point about stalking and all that stuff, the federal charges, which are the death penalty charges, include exactly what you're talking about. The fact that this guy was stalked, that it was done in a very cold blooded way. And I think actually if he gets convicted in the federal, in the federal system, now that Trump is running the Justice Department rather than Biden, if he gets convicted on the death penalty charge, he's going to get the death penalty.

Glenn Beck (36:45)

Okay. So it's not like he's getting murder in the second degree and he'll be out in 25 years. The federal government is also trying him. Will it be the same trial?

Andy McCarthy (36:58)

No, no. In fact, the interesting thing, Glenn, just from a political standpoint, I hate having to get political in this stuff.

Glenn Beck (37:05)

I know, me too.

Andy McCarthy (37:06)

Avoid it. The Biden Justice Department was working cooperatively with Bragg. I don't think the Trump Justice Department is going to work cooperatively with Bragg. And the interesting thing about that is under New York law, they have a very forgiving double jeopardy provision, which basically means if the feds go first, that will probably block New York State from going at all because of their expansive protection. And I think what's. But Biden's Justice Department was willing to let Bragg go first so that they'd go second and then everybody would have a piece of it. I'm not sure that Trump's guys are gonna play ball like that.

Glenn Beck (37:56)

Okay, so are you confident that justice will be served in this?

Andy McCarthy (38:02)

Well, I think that, you know, look, I think if your idea is justice served, will this guy be convicted of a severe murder charge and never see the light of day again? I am confident in that, yes. If you, if you believe as I do that if you're gonna have a death penalty in the law, which our Constitution permits, He deserves it. You're gonna have it. He deserves it. And if he doesn't get it, he would be, you know, he'd be among a long line of people who probably deserved it and didn't get it. So I guess it depends on what your idea of justice is. But I guess if we can agree that justice is this guy never sees the light of day again. I think justice will happen here.

Glenn Beck (38:46)

Okay, can I switch to Charlie Kirk? How is this unfolding? What are your thoughts on this? What are your thoughts on. You know, I really want to make sure we don't go too far. You know, I don't want another Patriot act kind of thing, but I do believe, you know, it appears as though there may have been many people involved at least in knowing what does that mean to you and what should happen? What should we be doing? What are we doing that is right and wrong?

Andy McCarthy (39:22)

Well, to the extent. I do think, Glenn, that this is being very aggressively investigated by both the state authorities and continuing by the federal authorities. I heard Cash Patel, because I happened to be on television this morning and they broadcast that while I was on, and he was talking about that, how they are going through all of the social media stuff to see who may have had an inkling about this before beforehand, and if there was any conspiratorial activity, they're going to go after it. Now. The chats that have come out so far that, that have been reported in the last couple of days are chats in which he. In which Robinson admitted to committing the homicide and told the people that he was chatting with that he had already arranged his surrender. If that's all these people knew, that is to say that he had, you know, he was discussing and he was turning himself in. Well, they might be good witnesses in terms of what his state of mind was at the, at the trial of Robinson, but I don't think that implicates them in criminal misconduct. On the other hand, the feds are going to keep digging, and I assume Utah is going to keep digging. And if they find out that somebody was involved in planning this, I think those people are going to be pursued.

Glenn Beck (40:55)

You know, there's probably. Texas would be a bad place to commit this crime. Utah, however, they have the death penalty, and they use the death penalty. And, and the governor, who. I'm not a big fan of this governor, but boy, he, he has been very strong and I think right on top of this whole thing. And he said, day one, you will get the death penalty. We catch you, we prove it in court of law, you will get the death penalty. And I think that's coming for this guy.

Andy McCarthy (41:23)

It should. Well, it's deserving because if there's ever anything that's indicative of premeditation and repulsive intent, I would say this is a textbook case of that.

Glenn Beck (41:41)

The idea that Trump is now going to go after possibly RICO charges for people like George Soros and, you know, organizations like that that are, are pushing for a lot of the, you know, the, the antifa kind of stuff. Do you see any problems with that or is this a, a good idea?

Andy McCarthy (42:04)

I just think the first thing before you get into RICO and all these, you know, RICO is a very complicated statute, even when it obviously applies. So I think that the bedrock thing they have to establish is that you are crossing the line from protected speech, a lot of which can be obnoxious speech and actual incitement to violence. And if you can get incitement to violence, you know, I didn't need RICO to prosecute the blind shape. Right. I was able to do it on incitement to violence and that kind of stuff. Those are less complicated charges than rico. But the big challenge in those cases, Glenn, is getting across the line into violent action as opposed to, you know, constitutionally protected rhetoric.

Glenn Beck (42:56)

Is there anything to the subversion of our, of our nation on, you know, that you're, you're intentionally subverting the United States of America. You're, you're pushing for revolutionary acts?

Andy McCarthy (43:11)

You know, there's a, there's a lot of litigation that arose out of that in connection with the Cold war and the McCarran Act. And, you know, you remember all the stuff from the, from the 40s and 50s forward. Yeah, no, and I think when that stuff was initially enacted, the country was in a different place. I think when the McCarran act was enacted, it was a consensus in the country that if someone was a member of the Communist Party, hadn't actually done anything active to seek the violent overthrow of the US but mere membership in the party. I think if you ask the question, in 1950, most people would have thought that was a crime, and by 1980, most people would have thought it wasn't a crime based on what? The Supreme Court?

Glenn Beck (44:01)

If you're a member of the Communist Party, you can be a member of the Communist Party, but if you are actively subverting and pushing for revolution in our country, I think that's a different. I think that's a different cat entirely.

Andy McCarthy (44:19)

Yeah, that's exactly right. If you're. But if you have that evidence of purposeful activity and look, if you have a conspiratorial agreement between two people that contemplates the use of force. You don't need much more than that. You don't need an act of violence if you have strong enough evidence of conspiracy. But you do have to establish that they get over that line into the use of force. At least the potential use of force.

Glenn Beck (44:45)

Okay, Andy, as always, thank you so much. Appreciate your insight. Appreciate it.

Andy McCarthy (44:49)

Thank you, Glenn.

Glenn Beck (44:50)

Make me feel. Yeah, make me feel a lot better about this I don't know about you stuff.